Does WWE 2 seem hard to anyone else for a 2nd grader?

[HappyGrace]

I was looking at the sample of week one for my rising 2nd grader to use next year and it has them doing dictation of words like "flattery" and "guard" and "enemy". Granted, they wrote the same sentence as copywork the day before, but my ds would still not be able to do those words from dictation even having seen it before!

 

We did about half of WWE 1 and it was easy for him so I sold it. He does narration and copywork from other sources. I just started giving him dictation sentences BUT they are sentences that have his spelling words in them!

 

It is so hard for me to judge difficulty because by 1st grade my older dd was doing well-written three paragraph reports, and is still very advanced today. Ds is more "normal" so we go at his pace. I thought he was about "on level" for his first grade work this year. But I'm getting worried looking at WWE2-are we that off track that he should be able to do this easily? Were your 2nd graders generally able to do WWE2 okay?

 

I thought about backing up and finishing WWE1, but before I sold it I looked through the rest of it and it didn't seem to increase in difficulty significantly, and I knew I could do the same thing on my own. (Older dd was experiencing severe health problems so we needed to make changes.) But now it seems like a big jump in WWE2! Maybe it was just that first week that looked especially hard compared to the rest of it?

[HappyGrace]

I also actually thought the narration passages-length and difficulty-seemed a big step up from WWE1-am I wrong about that? (It has been awhile since I looked at WWE1.) And the fact that they immediately have to start in WWE2 with picking out important points-the "skeleton." I'm really afraid to frustrate him.

 

It just seems, and I could be wrong since we didn't actually finish WWE1 (my fault), plus I've only seen week 1 in the sample:

1. a big step up from WWE1

2. hard for beginning 2nd graders

[blessed2fosteradopt]

I think it is very difficult for a 2nd grader. There is no way my son could have tackled that when he was 7/8. Truth be told, I use it with him now and he is a 6th grader. He struggles with focus as he has ADHD but even without his diagnosis I still think it seems difficult for a normal second grader.

[Hedgehogs4]

We're in it now with a rising 4th grader. My son is a terrible speller, and so he just asks me how to spell a word when he needs to, and i help him with that as he goes. He still has the job of holding the info in his head and getting it down. It's a challenge for his brain, for sure, but for him, not too hard. He'll be 9 in August. It would have been way too hard for him a year ago, i think.

[Hedgehogs4]

I also actually thought the narration passages-length and difficulty-seemed a big step up from WWE1-am I wrong about that? (It has been awhile since I looked at WWE1.) And the fact that they immediately have to start in WWE2 with picking out important points-the "skeleton." I'm really afraid to frustrate him.

 

It just seems, and I could be wrong since we didn't actually finish WWE1 (my fault), plus I've only seen week 1 in the sample:

1. a big step up from WWE1

2. hard for beginning 2nd graders

 

the "skeleton" / summary thing i'd have to disagree with you on, only because they guide you SO much with questions...first the narration questions, then the broader questions. My son has become very good at these summaries! I'm totally impressed with how well this has worked. BUT again...he'll be 9 in August.

[Homemama2]

Well, I think you are suppose to spell any words they need help with along the way. HOWEVER!!! ;) We quit dictation midway through the year. The narration and copywork were fine....but when we got to dictation that 'I' couldn't remember, I said enough is enough. Some of the sentences were just so LONG. We just did the narration and copywork and I continued w/ dictation using AAS.

For next year I am going to use Spelling Wisdom (from Simply Charlotte Mason) for dictation. This is very different from WWE dictation because it is studied dictation, which I think is more what I was looking for anyway.

[....]

I started WWE 2 halfway through 2nd grade with the now-8-yro. So, we are almost through with it and getting ready for WWE 3. I've seen HUGE improvement with her writing using this program. I guess that would make us doing end of WWE 2 and starting WWE 3 for 3rd grade (if that makes any sense).

 

I think it's probably about right, but 8 yro is touch and go with the dictation. I honestly don't remember doing dictation until I was in about 5th grade. Oh, and she struggles with quotation marks also...:glare:

[hopeallgoeswell]

I was looking at the sample of week one for my rising 2nd grader to use next year and it has them doing dictation of words like "flattery" and "guard" and "enemy". Granted, they wrote the same sentence as copywork the day before, but my ds would still not be able to do those words from dictation even having seen it before!

 

We did about half of WWE 1 and it was easy for him so I sold it. He does narration and copywork from other sources. I just started giving him dictation sentences BUT they are sentences that have his spelling words in them!

 

It is so hard for me to judge difficulty because by 1st grade my older dd was doing well-written three paragraph reports, and is still very advanced today. Ds is more "normal" so we go at his pace. I thought he was about "on level" for his first grade work this year. But I'm getting worried looking at WWE2-are we that off track that he should be able to do this easily? Were your 2nd graders generally able to do WWE2 okay?

 

I thought about backing up and finishing WWE1, but before I sold it I looked through the rest of it and it didn't seem to increase in difficulty significantly, and I knew I could do the same thing on my own. (Older dd was experiencing severe health problems so we needed to make changes.) But now it seems like a big jump in WWE2! Maybe it was just that first week that looked especially hard compared to the rest of it?

 

I figured since dd did FLL 1, she could jump into WWE 2 (we have the workbook). WWE 2 dictation (and some of the narration towards the end) were tough for my dd. I had her do studied dictation for the first half of the book. The second half she did studied dictation for the first sentence and just copied the remainder. For my next two, I will go through WWE 1 in first grade and then start WWE 2 (keeping the studied dictation).

 

You could always stretch the skills out over two weeks instead of one using your own literature only if/when your ds hits a snag.

 

I love being able to tailor things to my dc. The beauty of homeschooling!

[Lovedtodeath]

Do you want to borrow WWE 1? I don't want to sell it b/c I might need it for DS, but it is just sitting around here right now. I have the text that you could borrow too. :)

Edited June 4, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[Tam101]

My son just finished WWE2, he is a 2nd grader. The dictation was rough in the beginning, but by the time we got to the week 36 evaluation he did great. Remember the dictation isn't supposed to be a spell test and you aren't supposed to let them make mistakes.

[sweetfeet]

We started with WWE1 and I agree that WWE1 seems more gentle than WWE2. WWE2 progresses quickly, but slowly and with hand holding for the instructor. We stretch out the concepts present in WWE 2 if needed so that she is comfortable with what is being asked of her before moving along.

 

Have you considered buying the book that goes over the entire program and moving through slowly with your child using your own sources? It would allow you to move at a more comfortable pace.

[Jen+4dc]

My son hates the dictation, hates it. But, he does it. I spell anything he asks me to help on, SWB says in the instructions to seperate spelling out from writing dictation, so I do. It's hard for my very normal ds7 (8 in 2 weeks) but we keep plugging away. I think one thing that keeps him going is the variety of the stories in the workbook, he loves the narration parts and willingly does the copywork. He grudgingly does the dictation because he knows Mom is in charge;).

 

I have seen his writing improve by leaps and bounds!! We started WWE 1 in April of last year and got to week 8 before we took our summer break. Then, we finished it this year (we've gone at double pace for WWE 1 doing 2 days worth of work in 1 calendar day). When we hit WWE 2 it didn't lend itself nearly as well to doubling up days so we do days 1&2 on one calendar day (narration and copywork) then the next day we do dictation and then the next day we do narration and copywork. We also do it 5 days a week instead of 4. Why? Because I'm still struggling with the label of "2nd grade" and feeling like I need to keep him caught up with ps peers (yes this is Mom's neurosis, not his, and I'm working on it:tongue_smilie:). Today we finished up Week 25 of WWE 2. Ds still struggles to pull out the main ideas sometimes and I have to remind him of the big broad summary questions (WWE has these seperate from the comprehension questions). But, I have seen lots of improvement.

 

My unsolicited advice:D is to keep plugging along. If ds needs help spelling a word in the dictation, just spell it for him and move on. Are you using the textbook or the workbook? I'm using the workbook and it's so nice to have the comprehension and then summary questions and narration examples and stuff all right there for me. If you're using the textbook you can just pause at any skill ds needs practice on (actually you could do this with the workbook, too, you'd just have to find your own passages until ds gets it and is ready to move on).

 

These are tough skills but the process works! Like a pp said, you could try doing WWE 2 at half-pace for awhile until ds feels comfortable.

 

HTH

[Capt_Uhura]

I sometimes write trouble words at the bottom of the page. The previous poster is right. SWB says dictation is not the time to work on spelling.

[Heather in WI]

My son just finished WWE2, he is a 2nd grader. The dictation was rough in the beginning, but by the time we got to the week 36 evaluation he did great. Remember the dictation isn't supposed to be a spell test and you aren't supposed to let them make mistakes.

 

This was our experience as well. My ds is not a natural speller; I helped him spell whatever words he couldn't get as they came up. By the end of the year

dictation was a snap.

[kalanamak]

I was looking at the sample of week one for my rising 2nd grader to use next year and it has them doing dictation of words like "flattery" and "guard" and "enemy". Granted, they wrote the same sentence as copywork the day before, but my ds would still not be able to do those words from dictation even having seen it before!

 

 

I use the finger prompts we learned in SWR, and the SWR hints (e.g. "the /ah/ sound is the 3rd sound of the vowel you are looking for"). Sometimes I say, e.g for walk, "the third letter is a silent L". And on we go. E.G, for enemy, if he balked, I'd sound out " EN.....EM...and how do you make a long E sound as a single letter at the end of a word?" If he balked on EN or EM, I'd drag it out longer "eh.../n/", the goal being to get on through it.

 

Rather that dwelling on the words, we are working on remembering larger and larger chunks of the sentence. Granted, I started kiddo at 7.5, but after 3 weeks, it suddenly "took" and he is getting better, faster. It is work, as he says "that gives me a headache" but he grins with glee 20 minutes later when he's done a good job.

HTH

[kalanamak]

the "skeleton" / summary thing i'd have to disagree with you on, only because they guide you SO much with questions...first the narration questions, then the broader questions.

 

 

Yes, and going back over the broader questions if he hesitates on narration taught him in 2 weeks flat that he needed to pay close attention to them.

[deeinfl]

I haven't read the rest of the replies, but we started WWE 1 in the 2nd grade and in the 3rd grade tried WWE 2, but he was not ready for it. After a whole year of sentence dictation, he is now ready for WWE 2 and we will be going into the 4rth grade when we start this.

 

For us, it's about a set of skills. He may fly through the WWE 2, but I don't want him to miss anything and I'd rather go slow and get it done through 4 before the 6th grade, than have a remedial writer in middle school to highschool.

 

After listening to the audios at peacehill press, I'm even more convinced that this is the way to go with writing.

 

Dee

 

by the way,

 

My son is one of those children who can write and write and write about anything and everything and it's just a full paper of blah. I now see the need in learning to summarize and finding the right words to reach your audience.

 

(he gives great narrations, though, but narrations won't take him through college if it can't translate into good writing)

[Jennay]

I'm on week 24 of WWE2 with my 7yo ds and I ask him before he starts writing if there are any words he's not sure about. If so, I remind him of the spelling (writing it at the bottom of the paper like a pp suggested would also work great) and off he goes. He's actually a very good speller so I don't have to spell words for him very often.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I haven't read the rest of the replies, but we started WWE 1 in the 2nd grade and in the 3rd grade tried WWE 2, but he was not ready for it. After a whole year of sentence dictation, he is now ready for WWE 2 and we will be going into the 4rth grade when we start this.

What did you use for the dictation in 3rd grade?

[texasmama]

The dictation and the narration is a stretch for my 3rd grader. (We are using WWE2.) These are his areas of weakness, though. I now read one paragraph or so and then ask the corresponding narration questions, continuing to the end in that manner. He is much more comfortable with this approach, and his narration has improved. I also guide him in the narrations by suggesting pieces of the story that were important that he may want to mention.

 

With dictation, I break it up into one sentence at a time, have him look at it and review it if needed and repeat it, as well. He has begun to tolerate the process much better, and I know it is stretching him in a good way.:001_smile:

[Mom0012]

I just finished WWE 2 with my 2nd grader and she really didn't have any trouble with it. But, LA is a real area of strength for her and she spells and writes very well.

 

On the other hand, I've toyed with using WWE 2 with my rising 5th grade son over the summer and cringe at the thought of trying to do some of the dictations with him.

 

Lisa

[mom2att]

We're in it now with a rising 4th grader. My son is a terrible speller, and so he just asks me how to spell a word when he needs to, and i help him with that as he goes. He still has the job of holding the info in his head and getting it down. It's a challenge for his brain, for sure, but for him, not too hard. He'll be 9 in August. It would have been way too hard for him a year ago, i think.

 

Yup, me too. My 9 in August rising 4th grader is doing well with WWE2 and learning much, but it would be way too much for my rising 2nd grader. I plan to start WWE1 with him in the fall, and we will work through it more slowly than older ds is doing WWE2 (four days in two).

[Jen+4dc]

For us, it's about a set of skills. He may fly through the WWE 2, but I don't want him to miss anything and I'd rather go slow and get it done through 4 before the 6th grade, than have a remedial writer in middle school to highschool.

 

After listening to the audios at peacehill press, I'm even more convinced that this is the way to go with writing.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

You have to meet him where he's at and go at his pace. I keep having to remind myself of this constantly.

[rafiki]

.

[Melora in NC]

I just finished using it with my dd for 2nd grade, and it was a good fit. She is not at all advanced in her writing abitilites. However, I expected that I would have to help her with the spelling, and that I would have to repeat the longer sentences Many more than three times, and I did. We did find the dictation in the very last lessons to be excessive, but that would be my only complaint (well, that and the line spacing).

Having finished WWE2 we have gone on to Writing Tales I, just because that was my plan all along, and she is delighted by how Easy it is, which is nice but makes me wonder if she would have gotten more out of WWE3. Oh well!

[abbeyej]

I thought it was about right. Challenging in spots, perhaps, but I wouldn't have wanted it to be easier. I'm concerned about someone who hasn't used WWE coming and seeing this thread and thinking that all or most kids should use it a level down. I don't think that's generally true.

[Marie in Oh]

that holding off until 3rd grade can be a good idea, especially because WWE3 is even a bigger jump skill wise. My rising 6th and 7th graders just finished this level and will do WWE4 next year. I have it on my shelf and it looks very difficult.

 

My rising 4th grader just finished WWE2 and it was perfect. My rising 2nd grader just finished WWE1 and I think WWE2 will be challenging, thoughshe was writing her own narrations at the end of WWE1, so hopefully it won't go too badly.

 

All this to say, I can't believe the results this method has produced in my childrens' ability to put their thoughts on paper. Keep plugging away-- it is so worth it.

[blessed3x]

I know exactly what you're saying. Both of my boys nail the narration, and the copywork is a breeze, but the dictation--oy! That part requires much more hand holding and adapting than what is stated (or implied) in the instruction.

 

I let my boys look at the sentence before I read it to them. I point out some of the potentially difficult words. Then they repeat it after me several times. I will offer help if they get stuck on spelling mid-word, and I offer lots and lots of encouragement.

 

:iagree:

It is the same in our home with my ds8. He just turned out last week and we are in WWE2. If he knows what he is supposed to spell and is really stuck I offer help on the word.

It does take a lot of encouragement to get through the dictation- especially when I don't want him to 'hate' it. ;) We want schooling to be challenging at times, but for there to still be a love of learning.

[razorbackmama]

I was looking at the sample of week one for my rising 2nd grader to use next year and it has them doing dictation of words like "flattery" and "guard" and "enemy". Granted, they wrote the same sentence as copywork the day before, but my ds would still not be able to do those words from dictation even having seen it before!

 

This right here is why I do not use the workbooks for WWE. I use the textbook, which pulls the dictation/copywork from the books they are either reading or I'm reading to them.

[deeinfl]

Lovedtodeath,

 

We used Spelling Plus Dictation book. This is all you need. It has the lists of words by grade level, and then the spelling sentences which start out very easy as in, "I have a mat," to progressively more challenging sentences. (I wanted to write one down, but I don't have the book in front of me at the moment) We did two levels this year, the first and second, and will complete two more levels next year.

 

I saw a tremendous improvement in spelling and writing after just one year of dictating only four sentences a day, and this of course was after introducing the word list and making sure that they were words he learned to spell first.

 

This served as both double duty for us, spelling, and writing. And at the end of this school year, when we did a practice lesson from the Strong Fundamentals Text, he rose to the occasion and actually enjoyed it and was able to do it.

 

Two things were lacking last year...the maturity, and the familiarity with sentence dictation. For us, it paid off.

 

HTH,

 

Dee

[Lovedtodeath]

Thank you Dee.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I thought it was about right. Challenging in spots, perhaps, but I wouldn't have wanted it to be easier. I'm concerned about someone who hasn't used WWE coming and seeing this thread and thinking that all or most kids should use it a level down. I don't think that's generally true.

 

:iagree:

 

All three of my children could have handled WWE 2 when they were seven and in second grade, even my reluctant writer.

 

There are placement tests in the Writing With Ease TM that newcomers can use to determine which level to place their children into.

[Halcyon]

MY 7 yo has been using WWE2 since Feb, when we switched from K12's LA program. He had never done dictation, so initially it was hard for him to remember what I had said and "hold" it in his mind as he wrote. But we are now on Week 16 and it is MUCH better. His spelling is good, sothat's not an issue, and his handwriting is faster now too, which is good. I think his writing has improved a great deal as well, so I am happy with it. We'll be starting WWE3 in the fall.

 

We also use WS3 for more creative, expository work. We alternate between the two texts.

[Shelly in the Country]

I was looking at the sample of week one for my rising 2nd grader to use next year and it has them doing dictation of words like "flattery" and "guard" and "enemy". Granted, they wrote the same sentence as copywork the day before, but my ds would still not be able to do those words from dictation even having seen it before!

 

 

Maybe it was just that first week that looked especially hard compared to the rest of it?

 

I think that first dictation sentence is not representative of the difficulty later on. That first sentence was harder, but as you pointed out, it was also copywork the day before. I write any words that might be difficult to spell on the whiteboard before I begin reading. Granted, we are only on Week 3...:lol:

 

I am using WWE2 with my ds 6 (almost 7). I also have to help my dd10 with spelling in her dictation. She is doing WWE4. It is hard work, but they are making lots of progress. I've been very impressed with the results of WWE thus far.

[HappyGrace]

Thank you all for the kind and helpful responses!

 

I've decided to hold off on WWE2 until January, or the following Sept, depending on his progress. I feel it would just frustrate him right now. Especially if there are so many older dc that are *just* doing it now. It obviously won't hurt to have him wait a little bit rather than pushing too fast. After getting more spelling under his belt via PR, he may be ready by January to attempt it. At that point I can use some of the PR spelling prompts-identical to SWR-to guide him on tough words ("use the two-letter "a" that we don't use at the end of English words")-good suggestion, thanks!

 

Meanwhile, while we make some spelling progress, we'll keep up the simple dictation with spelling words. In the fall he starts SOTW1, so we can do narration from there, and copywork too. I carefully read the WWE text several months ago, and made good notes, so I can start slowly implementing some of the level 2 skills with our own reading selections.

 

Thank you, Carmen, for your very kind offer about WWE1! I think if I take the above approach, I should be able to manage ok. I really appreciate it though! :grouphug:

[EKS]

My 2nd grader had trouble with some of the very (much too, IMO) detail oriented comprehension questions. He also could not hold huge long strings of words in his head for dictation.

 

I think if you take a flexible approach, things should be fine. If he doesn't know how to spell a word, then just tell him how to spell it, if he can't answer a comprehension question, either go over that part of the passage again or just tell him the answer and move on, if he can't hold entire paragraphs in his head for dictation, break it into sections that he can hold in his head. I think the "ideals" of WWE are just that, something to aspire to, but not something to hold up the show if he's not demonstrating absolute mastery every step of the way.

[razorbackmama]

if he can't hold entire paragraphs in his head for dictation, break it into sections that he can hold in his head.

 

I am extremely lenient when it comes to the long dictation. (We just started short paragraphs of dictation a few days ago, and my kids are FLIPPING OUT about it.) That's because it's essentially the same as on the spot memorization.

 

Now, when it comes to me dictating part of their own narration back to them, I'm a little more particular. That's because the goal of WWE is to teach them to hold their thoughts in their head. So I focus on getting them to hold THEIR OWN thoughts in their head. I'm not as particular about them holding SOMEONE ELSE'S thoughts in their head.

 

I'm also not concerned about perfect spelling and punctuation in their dictation. That's because I believe wholeheartedly in the revision and proofreading steps of the writing process. So I know that they don't have to get it down perfect the first time.

[texasmama]

My 2nd grader had trouble with some of the very (much too, IMO) detail oriented comprehension questions. He also could not hold huge long strings of words in his head for dictation.

 

I think if you take a flexible approach, things should be fine. If he doesn't know how to spell a word, then just tell him how to spell it, if he can't answer a comprehension question, either go over that part of the passage again or just tell him the answer and move on, if he can't hold entire paragraphs in his head for dictation, break it into sections that he can hold in his head. I think the "ideals" of WWE are just that, something to aspire to, but not something to hold up the show if he's not demonstrating absolute mastery every step of the way.

 

:iagree: My second grader will be doing WWE2 next year and I believe will likely not struggle with most of it once he becomes accustomed to the program, though I will adapt it as needed. My third grader really struggled this year, though, and I adapted it as needed, stretching him a bit at a time. I want him to get the foundational skills offered in the program without being frustrated to tears (at which point no learning takes place). Kids are so very different in their strengths and weaknesses, but if the teacher is willing to adapt as needed, WWE is a great program and I am glad to have used it.:001_smile:

[tennismomkelly]

I am extremely lenient when it comes to the long dictation. (We just started short paragraphs of dictation a few days ago, and my kids are FLIPPING OUT about it.) That's because it's essentially the same as on the spot memorization.

 

Now, when it comes to me dictating part of their own narration back to them, I'm a little more particular. That's because the goal of WWE is to teach them to hold their thoughts in their head. So I focus on getting them to hold THEIR OWN thoughts in their head. I'm not as particular about them holding SOMEONE ELSE'S thoughts in their head.

I agree. My DS has a hard time with dictations that are a couple of sentences long, especially when they are very wordy. However, he's really good at taking dictation from his narrations. I can give him 3-4 sentences of his own words and he doesn't flinch but will often be near tears if it's straight dictation.

[HeatherM]

My son could not have done this in second grade. We started the last half of 3rd and finished half way through 4th grade. I just bought the 3rd level book so we just started it, and he'll be 10 tomorrow. He struggles with dictation, but has shown improvement.

[HappyGrace]

Good idea to try him taking dictation from his narrations, as a transitional step. (which I know SWB suggests)

 

In general, I am slightly more a proponent of studied dictation (CM-style) rather than this on-the-spot-memorization type of dictation. (There was a long thread about this quite awhile back so I won't go into that here.) I understand the reasoning behind learning how to "hold it in your mind" though.

[razorbackmama]

Good idea to try him taking dictation from his narrations, as a transitional step. (which I know SWB suggests)

 

That begins in WWE 3.:001_smile:

[HappyGrace]

Oh, good to know!! Thanks!! I'll hold off on that then and just keep up with our dictation sentences with spelling words.

[Capt_Uhura]

I am extremely lenient when it comes to the long dictation. (We just started short paragraphs of dictation a few days ago, and my kids are FLIPPING OUT about it.) That's because it's essentially the same as on the spot memorization.

 

Now, when it comes to me dictating part of their own narration back to them, I'm a little more particular. That's because the goal of WWE is to teach them to hold their thoughts in their head. So I focus on getting them to hold THEIR OWN thoughts in their head. I'm not as particular about them holding SOMEONE ELSE'S thoughts in their head.

 

I'm also not concerned about perfect spelling and punctuation in their dictation. That's because I believe wholeheartedly in the revision and proofreading steps of the writing process. So I know that they don't have to get it down perfect the first time.

 

Yes, my son has no issue w/ holding his own thoughts in his head but some trouble w/ others' thoughts. I figure when he's taking notes, he won't be writing in complete sentences nor writing word for word. So if he needs help, I give it and try not to stress over it too much. He's almost half-way through WWE3.

[Lovedtodeath]

You can also do dictation with the sentences from the readers in PR 1. :)