WWYD? Ds12 wants to stay in ps...

[Sue G in PA]

After saying last month that he wanted to come home...he has changed his mind. And he is very adament about it now. His 6th grade class visited the 7th/8th gr. building last week and he saw all the "fun" things that he could do. And of course his friends all want him to stay in ps, too. :glare: Ds12 is a very social kid and loves to be around friends. He does not however do well with his family and his siblings. Dh and I decided that we want all the dc to come home from ps so we can once again, hs them all. This will not be an easy task for me and one which I prayed a lot about. So did dh. We hs for a variety of different reasons...different ones for each child but there are some that are common: 1. Christ-centered curriculum 2. staying away from the negative peer influences of sex, drugs, alcohol, etc. 3. a more rigorous and "tailor-made" education. For ds12, we have noticed his attitude declining since being at ps. We hoped it would get better, having some time away from his siblings. Not so. It is worse. Dh and I have agreed that until we see an improvement in his attitude with siblings and his treatment of his siblings (and us) that we will not have the privilege of playing with friends. We don't expect him to be best friends with his siblings...just to treat them with the same respect he does his friends. I do not think he has "earned" the right to decided whether to stay in ps or not. What do you all think? We have "heard him out"...meaning we let him list his reasons and argue his point. No reason was "good enough" to warrant our decision being changed. My problem is this: He could really make my life a living H*ll next year if he wanted and I cannot deal with that. :glare:

[newlifemom]

Sue,

 

I wish I had words of wisdom for you. I do not, but :grouphug:.

 

Maybe, he could earn his way back to ps with good behavior/attitude?

[Renee in NC]

Hon, it isn't about ps or hs - it's about 12yo boys!:glare:

 

We have the same issues, mine has never been to school, and he is like Jekyll and Hyde.

[asta]

Sue,

 

I realize this isn't exactly the same, but it is kinda sorta...

 

I knew a family that had always had their kids in "the best private schools" while both parents worked. Well, then they moved to a place where mom couldn't get a job, the private schools were enormously expensive, and the public schools were awful. They decided to homeschool.

 

It was the best thing EVER for the youngest child - she just blossomed. The eldest - oh boy. He was... 14? Guess what mom found out? She had been being BS'd by that expensive "best private school". Kid was way behind in several areas (she'd been told he was on level or ahead). So what did she have to listen to all day, every. single. day. from this kid?

 

"I miss my friends. I want to go back to school."

 

In the whiniest tone you can imagine.

 

She took everything away: TV, X-box, handheld games, him seeking out the few bad apples in the neighborhood - anything that wasn't education oriented. Nothing would shift this kid. What did his dad say? "Put him back in PS - that is where he will be happy".

 

HAPPY?

 

I was personally ready to beat that child, fourteen or not.

 

So here is my input: You're the parent. He is the child. He doesn't get a vote on this one. Is he going to "be a sullen teenager"? Yes, he is. Is he going to be nasty and full of attitude towards you for probably a solid year? Yes, he will.

 

But I bet that you will find out something similar to what this woman found - and that you can either take the easy way out or stick to your guns and keep that kid on track. "Friends", while a very valuable part of growing up and not becoming Ted Kaczynski, have bubkus to do with succeeding in 7th grade.

 

It sounds as if you and your hubby need to have an individual sit down with DS about the responsibilities that come with becoming a young man (the whole honor they mother and father thing). I'm sure you have - you sound like a good parent - but perhaps he wasn't internalizing it because he thought he was operating on his terms. (oops - missed that part in your OP)

 

Finally, beyond everything else I've said, and this is in contrast to everything I've said - recognize that he may simply want a break from ya'll. Recognizing the constraints you wish to have on his schooling, perhaps "home" isn't the best place for him; perhaps a small Christian cottage school is.

 

I hope some of that made sense - I'm not really awake yet.

 

 

asta

Edited May 26, 2010 by asta

[In The Great White North]

For ds12, we have noticed his attitude declining since being at ps. We hoped it would get better, having some time away from his siblings. Not so. It is worse. Dh and I have agreed that until we see an improvement in his attitude with siblings and his treatment of his siblings (and us) that we will not have the privilege of playing with friends. We don't expect him to be best friends with his siblings...just to treat them with the same respect he does his friends.

I knew a family that had always had their kids in "the best private schools" while both parents worked. Well, then they moved to a place where mom couldn't get a job, the private schools were enormously expensive, and the public schools were awful. They decided to homeschool.

 

It was the best thing EVER for the youngest child - she just blossomed. The eldest - oh boy. He was... 14? Guess what mom found out? She had been being BS'd by that expensive "best private school". Kid was way behind in several areas (she'd been told he was on level or ahead). So what did she have to listen to all day, every. single. day. from this kid?

 

"I miss my friends. I want to go back to school."

 

In the whiniest tone you can imagine.

 

She took everything away: TV, X-box, handheld games, him seeking out the few bad apples in the neighborhood - anything that wasn't education oriented. Nothing would shift this kid. What did his dad say? "Put him back in PS - that is where he will be happy".

 

HAPPY?

Interestingly, this type of situation has come up a number of times on these boards and no one has ever said that putting their dc into public school has ever helped with attitude. Lots of examples that staying home did.

 

My problem is this: He could really make my life a living H*ll next year if he wanted and I cannot deal with that. :glare:

 

He could do this while going to ps too. He will be home enough hours in the day to change the mood of the house.

Edited May 26, 2010 by In The Great White North

[Renee in NC]

Interestingly, this type of situation has come up a number of times on these boards and no one has ever said that putting their dc into public school has ever helped with attitude. Lots of examples that staying home did.

 

 

 

He could do this while going to ps too. He will be home enough hours in the day to change the mood of the house.

 

I agree and this is why my ds will NOT go to school, regardless of what he thinks is good for him. The more time he spends with peers, the worse he acts, so I can only imagine what would happen if he went to school.

[Remudamom]

Absolutely what asta said. I wouldn't consider rewarding $hitty behavior with public school. You are the parent. He's 12. TWELVE. Sorry, but..............are you nuts? Letting a 12 yr old influence you like that?

 

Start off nicely and crank down when needed. As for him making your life a living hell....... I'd give as good as I got. Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard.

 

I'm flabbergasted.

[TammyinTN]

After saying last month that he wanted to come home...he has changed his mind. And he is very adament about it now. His 6th grade class visited the 7th/8th gr. building last week and he saw all the "fun" things that he could do. And of course his friends all want him to stay in ps, too. :glare: Ds12 is a very social kid and loves to be around friends. He does not however do well with his family and his siblings. Dh and I decided that we want all the dc to come home from ps so we can once again, hs them all. This will not be an easy task for me and one which I prayed a lot about. So did dh. We hs for a variety of different reasons...different ones for each child but there are some that are common: 1. Christ-centered curriculum 2. staying away from the negative peer influences of sex, drugs, alcohol, etc. 3. a more rigorous and "tailor-made" education. For ds12, we have noticed his attitude declining since being at ps. We hoped it would get better, having some time away from his siblings. Not so. It is worse. Dh and I have agreed that until we see an improvement in his attitude with siblings and his treatment of his siblings (and us) that we will not have the privilege of playing with friends. We don't expect him to be best friends with his siblings...just to treat them with the same respect he does his friends. I do not think he has "earned" the right to decided whether to stay in ps or not. What do you all think? We have "heard him out"...meaning we let him list his reasons and argue his point. No reason was "good enough" to warrant our decision being changed. My problem is this: He could really make my life a living H*ll next year if he wanted and I cannot deal with that. :glare:

 

He doesn't get a vote in this. Your his parents and he is to do what you say. My 12 year son has never been to public school and it was one of the best decisions we ever made. Our daughters went --oldest until 9th grade and middle to 7th grade. It was horrible when we decided to start homeschooling, but we stuck it out and its paid off. I would not allow him to make my life horrible, he can either work with his brain by doing school cheerfully or work with his hands and back--manual labor.

[Melinda in VT]

My problem is this: He could really make my life a living H*ll next year if he wanted and I cannot deal with that. :glare:

 

As I see it, you have three choices:

 

 

1. Cave in to the demands of a 12-year-old and send him to public school. The bad attitude will persist in the evenings and on weekends, but you will hopefully be able to school the other children during the time he is at school.

2. Bring him home and hope he will choose not to make your life a living hell. (I think you have very little chance of him choosing that. I think it is far more likely that his past behavior and attitudes will resurface and seriously impact your ability to give your other children an education.)

3. Bring him home and spend the summer developing (internally and with DH) a firm and detailed plan about how you will respond to his bad attitude and behavior. This will demand the most of you as a parent, and you'll really need to plan and psyche yourself up for it to work.

 

 

In your shoes, I would choose 3, 1, and 2, in that order.

[JudoMom]

Absolutely what asta said. I wouldn't consider rewarding $hitty behavior with public school. You are the parent. He's 12. TWELVE. Sorry, but..............are you nuts? Letting a 12 yr old influence you like that?

 

Start off nicely and crank down when needed. As for him making your life a living hell....... I'd give as good as I got. Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard.

 

I'm flabbergasted.

 

:iagree:

 

Don't make decisions based on fear, make decisions based on what is right and good and true for your child.

[Teachin'Mine]

I would try to not make it sound like ps would be a "reward" for anything. I've used it in the past - on rare occasion - as a threat! :tongue_smilie: But I know it's your son who thinks of it as a reward. Maybe ask him to make a list of things which could possibly be positives about home schooling. Even if he only puts down one or two things, use those things when things get tough.

 

I agree that the decision should be made by you and your husband, and I also agree that his behavior will likely not get better in jr high and will more than likely get worse. Home schooling will be rough, especially at the beginning, but for the reasons you're doing it, it will be worth the struggle. Make the rules clear, and consequences clear, but also try to set up some rewards and make those clear as well.

 

Do you have a home school group? Are there activities he can get involved in at church to make some new positive friends? Maybe make some short term goals for him at the beginning. Like talk with him on the weekend and tell him that if his attitude and behavior are good during school on Monday, that you'll call so and so's mom and ask them to come over on Wed after school. Also let him know that this will be set up with both knowing that it's dependent on good behavior on Tuesday and Wednesday as well, and can be canceled.

 

Another thought is to set up some system where his brothers and sisters can "give him a star" when they catch him being nice to them. When he gets x number of stars, the whole family gets a treat of some kind. He may go out of his way to do nice things.

 

Try to make sure he has some outlets for his frustration and anger. Maybe a hobby or sport - something he can do at home when he needs to destress.

 

I hope it turns out to be a great year for all of you. :)

[Parrothead]

My problem is this: He could really make my life a living H*ll next year if he wanted and I cannot deal with that. :glare:

I have to ask, how is your young man's father planning on supporting your efforts? I firmly believe there comes a time in every young man's life when his father needs to sit down and let the young man know exactly what is expected, and exactly what the father will dole out as consequences if the young man disrespects his mother.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

My son is 12, never been to school, and doesn't want to. Still, at 12yo, he has a say in his education. My son chose to stay home and not go to school. And since I had no real reason *not* to homeschool him, here we are.

 

I'm the opposite from what's been in this thread so far. It used to be that boys would be considered adults at 12yo in the past. They can take (some) adult decisions. They can get confirmed at our church, and be considered an adult for church purposes (confirmed teens have a vote, just like adults).

 

I would let him choose, with firm and clear expectations. If his marks drop below a certain level, if he doesn't obey his curfew, whatever is important to you, then pull him out of school. His staying in school will depend on his attitude. With clear expectations, he will be responsible for staying in school.

[chiguirre]

As I see it, you have three choices:

 

 

1. Cave in to the demands of a 12-year-old and send him to public school. The bad attitude will persist in the evenings and on weekends, but you will hopefully be able to school the other children during the time he is at school.

2. Bring him home and hope he will choose not to make your life a living hell. (I think you have very little chance of him choosing that. I think it is far more likely that his past behavior and attitudes will resurface and seriously impact your ability to give your other children an education.)

3. Bring him home and spend the summer developing (internally and with DH) a firm and detailed plan about how you will respond to his bad attitude and behavior. This will demand the most of you as a parent, and you'll really need to plan and psyche yourself up for it to work.

 

 

In your shoes, I would choose 3, 1, and 2, in that order.

 

:iagree: with Melinda's analysis, but I wouldn't want to attempt to hs several other children while dealing with your 12 yo's attitude. It will eat up your whole day and it will be hard to keep the others on track. If you do go with 3, I'd start schooling immediately so you have a better chance of actually finishing the year's work by August 2011.

 

Could the 12 yo do a virtual charter? Would he be motivated to avoid failing without you having to ride him all the time? Would there be real consequences (summer school or retention) if he failed? This might be an avenue to guarantee he does his work.

 

If you hs independently, do you think he will do his work or will he dig in his heels and refuse to do anything no matter what punishment you mete out? Are you willing to have to repeat 7th grade and have reporting issues because he absolutely refuses to work? Is there anything he values more than getting his own way? Would he be willing to lose all privileges in order to prove his point? If he does, what effect would this have on your other kids and your own mental health? Do you think his attitude could affect his siblings willingness to work?

 

I hope you can come to a decision that works for your family.

[Orthodox6]

Excellent advice already posted to reinforce your responsibilities (and rights) as parents to make this decision, based on the values you hold for your family, and the behaviours you expect to result from those values.

 

With nearly all of the preceding posts, then, . . . :iagree: !

 

(In our family, any time that we mentioned resorting to the public schools, the children reacted as if we had threatened them !)

[CalicoKat]

After saying last month that he wanted to come home...he has changed his mind. And he is very adament about it now. His 6th grade class visited the 7th/8th gr. building last week and he saw all the "fun" things that he could do. And of course his friends all want him to stay in ps, too. :glare: Ds12 is a very social kid and loves to be around friends. He does not however do well with his family and his siblings. Dh and I decided that we want all the dc to come home from ps so we can once again, hs them all. This will not be an easy task for me and one which I prayed a lot about. So did dh. We hs for a variety of different reasons...different ones for each child but there are some that are common: 1. Christ-centered curriculum 2. staying away from the negative peer influences of sex, drugs, alcohol, etc. 3. a more rigorous and "tailor-made" education. For ds12, we have noticed his attitude declining since being at ps. We hoped it would get better, having some time away from his siblings. Not so. It is worse. Dh and I have agreed that until we see an improvement in his attitude with siblings and his treatment of his siblings (and us) that we will not have the privilege of playing with friends. We don't expect him to be best friends with his siblings...just to treat them with the same respect he does his friends. I do not think he has "earned" the right to decided whether to stay in ps or not. What do you all think? We have "heard him out"...meaning we let him list his reasons and argue his point. No reason was "good enough" to warrant our decision being changed. My problem is this: He could really make my life a living H*ll next year if he wanted and I cannot deal with that. :glare:

Sounds like the decision has already been made. Listen to him. "Son, Daddy and Mommy have decided that homeschooling is the best decision for you this next year. "

 

So he acts up big time, isn't this the point of homeschooling to help him learn some self-discipline in all areas of life? I recommend Heaven Help the Home because it's been helping me be a better parent in this area right now. But I'm sure there are other resources you can "stock up on" to help you weather the potential hurricane of behaviours on the horizon. Be strong for your son, he needs you to be the parent even if it means he's going to be disappointed. His disappointment now is worth the outcome you and your dh forsee.

[Renee in NC]

My son is 12, never been to school, and doesn't want to. Still, at 12yo, he has a say in his education. My son chose to stay home and not go to school. And since I had no real reason *not* to homeschool him, here we are.

 

I'm the opposite from what's been in this thread so far. It used to be that boys would be considered adults at 12yo in the past. They can take (some) adult decisions. They can get confirmed at our church, and be considered an adult for church purposes (confirmed teens have a vote, just like adults).

 

I would let him choose, with firm and clear expectations. If his marks drop below a certain level, if he doesn't obey his curfew, whatever is important to you, then pull him out of school. His staying in school will depend on his attitude. With clear expectations, he will be responsible for staying in school.

 

I'll agree and disagree. I belive in early maturity. I believe in giving greater responsbilities to a 12yo than society allows. At the same time, I think that school, ESPECIALLY middle school, is a detriment to everyone who attends, attitude problems or not. I have not seen one good thing that comes out of putting that many highly hormonal, generally self-centered people in close quarters. This isn't real life and I am convinced that it *doesn't* do much in preparing the students for adult life.

 

In the past, when 12 was seen as more of an adult, school and society was not what it is today. A 12yo boy would spend his hours outside of school working. He went to school for shorter periods of time (my grandmother taught in a rural, one room schoolhouse in Missouri in the 40s and it was still true then.) The schools were more likely to be age-integrated, share the values of the parents, and offer a sound, practical, basic education. The school was an "extension" of the home, not a replacement.

 

I've given my 12yo a huge say in *what* he does for school, but not where. I'll give him freedoms to choose some things for himself, but at the cost of much larger responsibilities. Maturity is rewarded, but freedom is earned, not an entitlement. A 12yo who manifests his immaturity in nastiness towards his family is not rewarded by parents giving in to his demands.

[Chris in VA]

Hi Sue,

 

I don't see how he's getting the message that you have to earn the right to go to public school--it's more the default, it seems. I'd stop defining it as a privilege if you want him to value homesch more.

 

What he wants is friends, right? And certain experiences, maybe? And some autonomy that he is defining as time away from you? And maybe he wants to fit in with the peer friends he's made this year (perhaps his ps schooled friends were from before this year, too?)?

 

So, how could you provide for some of those wants while also keeping him at home for schooling? For instance:

 

What would you be willing to do to see that he gets around friends? Drive to their homes? Invite them in? Take ds places to have fun with them? OR, are the friends and peers he's already made a problem for him? Are you using homeschooling to keep him from being influenced by THESE friends, or by others he may potentially meet, or both?

 

Does he participate in anything else, like Scouts, where he is continually surrounded by ps kids? This could be tricky for at least two reasons--one, he will constantly hear about ps from them, which can lead him to feel left out and different, and two, he will continually compare his own experience to theirs--OTOH, if you pull him from an ongoing activity, he's likely to resent it.

 

So I guess I'm saying, can you give him some incentive for wanting to homeschool, or at least, seeing it as "not that bad?" You really don't need to be responsible for making it pleasant--his attitude and demeanor are up to him, and I say this gently--you have to be careful to have enough separation between you that you don't begin to draw on his feelings and make them your own. But, at least you can be kind and recognize and foster his need, at 12, to start having some decision power and control over certain aspects of his life. So, he has to be homeschooled, but he doesn't have to...whatever--study a certain time period with certain materials, or give up everything ps related, or whatever it is you can release to him while maintaining what level of control you think is absolutely best for him. Keep in mind the possibility that he may want to learn from someone else, too--so online classes or a coop may give you some space, him some control, and free up some emotional space for the both of you.

 

It's a hard place to be in. I really, really understand.

 

Hth even a little.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Chris in VA

[Remudamom]

My son is 12, never been to school, and doesn't want to. Still, at 12yo, he has a say in his education. My son chose to stay home and not go to school. And since I had no real reason *not* to homeschool him, here we are.

 

I'm the opposite from what's been in this thread so far. It used to be that boys would be considered adults at 12yo in the past. They can take (some) adult decisions. They can get confirmed at our church, and be considered an adult for church purposes (confirmed teens have a vote, just like adults).

 

I would let him choose, with firm and clear expectations. If his marks drop below a certain level, if he doesn't obey his curfew, whatever is important to you, then pull him out of school. His staying in school will depend on his attitude. With clear expectations, he will be responsible for staying in school.

 

This young man is making it loud and clear that he is not a responsible adult. Anyone whose mother is afraid he's going to make her life a living hell is obviously not adult.

 

If boys used to be considered adults at 12 in the past it's in the past for a d@mn good reason. Things are not like they are in the past.

 

My kids are all grown. We cranked down on them when they were younger so we could set them loose when they were in their mid teens. 12 is 12, and this particular 12 yr old ain't there yet.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

If the following does not apply to you and sending your son to ps is the appropriate, studied decision that you believe in, then just disregard :) This is just the conclusion that I reached for my family:

 

Raising boys in 2010 takes enormous love...and tremendous backbone.

 

My son wanted to walk all over me, obliterate our relationship, and decimate the loving, learning environment in our home.

 

I said, "No."

 

I will win. Our relationship will stay intact, my rules for the home will prevail, all will be homeschooled, and all will grow into decent young men or I will (literally) die trying to make it so.

 

I wasn't raised in a trailer park by the world's most dedicated mother for nothing. I didn't have a lifetime behind me of work, deprivation, and devastating loss just to sit down and wail when my fairy tale didn't work out.

 

What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.

 

I am strong enough to LOVE a boy through puberty, even in a culture that would like nothing better than to bring him down.

 

I am strong enough to cut out ALL negative influences. I don't mean that I am manipulating a nicey-nice environment for my son. I mean that I am cutting out anyone who will excuse him, coddle him, flatter him, yell at him, or fail to see his true worth.

 

He has two people left in his life now.

 

 

 

(Just kidding. Thank the Lord, I did promptly find excellent role models and mentors for him.)

 

I am strong enough to do my crying in private. I do have to cry sometimes, when I realize that my beautiful golden boy has been tempted and has fallen into some of the worst that society has to offer. I also have to cry when I realize how badly he wants to rise above. I love this kid, and I have to cry when I realize I only have 4 or 5 more years of having him at home.

 

I am strong enough to be entirely unflappable, proving to him that I will never wig out emotionally if he shares something that is, in truth, turning my hair gray even as I stand there. (Again with the crying in private.)

 

I am strong enough to weather his mood swings and still smile at him when he looks at me. I am strong enough to discuss quantum physics with him one minute, and repair his beloved stuffed animal in the next. I can switch from rhetoric-level literature discussions to a laugh over a comic book without pause.

 

I am strong enough to spend hours of my day rubbing off on this kid. I try to give the best and deepest of what I can bring to his education, every day of my life.

 

I am unflappable. I am unstoppable. I am a force of nature, and I am doing what is now known in this house as "Mama's End Run Around Puberty."

 

And it is all a sham! I am not this strong! I am a faker! I am an actress! This is harder than childbirth. Harder than those baby and toddler years. Harder than poverty, harder than lupus, harder than anything hard I've ever been through.

 

I've never been prouder to lay down my life for something. Nathaniel gets my best, and he will never know what it cost me to not send him to school and not give up on him.

 

Matter of fact, if he looks back someday and says, "Adolescence was very hard on me, but Mama just calmly helped me through it," and doesn't give it another thought, I'll know I succeeded.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Dulcimeramy

[Jackie in AR]

I would require appropriate behavior within the context of my family before I would consider his wants.

 

If he thinks he is mature enough to make his life decisions, he should be mature enough to behave, well, maturely.

 

I feel for you, Sue, I really do. Parenting is an adventure, isn't it?

 

:grouphug:

[Gooblink]

I'm with Remudamom.

 

Also, the post about his father's role. He needs to be a strong role model and insist you be treated with respect.

 

My 12 year old has been homeschooled all his life and even his attitude is changing. He's still very much aware of who's in authority in our home, but attempting to flex his independence. I try to let him make as many of his own decisions as possible, but when I absolutely know he wants to do something that is not in his best interest, I put my foot down. It's not always easy.

 

As far as not being able to handle him making your life a living hell? You're the parent, you will have to find a way to deal with it.

[Sue G in PA]

Lots of food for thought, as always. Thank you! I'll try to answer a few of the questions and clarify a few points. We are really cracking down on his attitude of late. For a long time, I was not in the best state emotionally and let a lot of it go. Now, I am really cracking down. He is NOT an adult as is obvious by his attitude and thus does not get to choose ps or hs. I want what is best for him and for us all...thus my questioning.

 

1. This child is involved in a lot of social activites (church, sports, clubs, etc.) and has a ton of neighborhood and church friends...all are friends that we approve of. However, his one ps friend (they have been friends since 1st grade) is his "ally" in pushing the "benefits" of ps...the kid obviously wants my ds12 to stay in ps w/ him. Ds12 will not lose any of the out of school time he spends w/ his friends (unless by his own choice/attitude...if you get my drift).

2. My dh is going through some personal issues right now and I don't feel like I have him on my parenting team at the moment. I have always been the one to research, ask questions, read the parenting books, etc. while dh sort of "flies by the seat of his pants". I think I have stumbled upon a good resource and disciplinary tactic but dh is "at his wits end" and really doesn't want to hear about it or try anything new right now. No criticism to dh...he's just going through a rough time (like I was) and can't handle it. He will back me (to a point) but he is certainly not a team player right now.

3. The fact that ds12 could make my life difficult next year only plays into my decision making a tiny bit. I am the parent...end of story. He chooses his attitude. He might not *like* school at home or having to do chores or what have you...but he WILL do them w/ a good attitude and one of respect and submission to our authority...or there will be consequences.

4. I'm tired of his ps friends telling him that he NEEDS time away from his siblings that it isn't "normal" to spend so much time with your family. :001_huh: Ummm...who says?

 

Anyway, I'm sure I missed some of the questions. Thanks for your great responses. I think I just needed moral support to lay down the law and tell ds12 in no uncertain terms that the decision has been made. Oh, and FTR...he wants to come home for high school anyway to play football on our local homeschool/private school Christian football team. It's been his "dream" since 3rd grade!

[Sandy in Indy]

"One of us will be alive at the end of the day...and it's gonna be ME." :-)

 

You've prayed about it and made the decision you felt best for your family. Stand by it. You'll probably have some rough road ahead, but it will be OK. Trust that you've made the best decision.

[teamturner]

Could the 12 yo do a virtual charter? Would he be motivated to avoid failing without you having to ride him all the time? Would there be real consequences (summer school or retention) if he failed? This might be an avenue to guarantee he does his work.

 

 

I was wondering about this as well. I had a moment this morning when I seriously thought of sticking one of my 10 yo ds's on a computer/online school track for next year. If part of the problem is him having to deal one on one with you throughout the day and his bad attitude causing you to not get the time you need to school the other dc then consider going this route. Then you're not dealing with the day to day assignments with him and are not as likely to get sucked in to his drama. Deal with it together w/your dh at the end of the day. He gets his work done, his life is good. He doesn't and his life is not so good. Done and done.

 

I agree that you need to find outside activity/activities that will allow him some outside the home time. This is granted with good attitudes and respect. This will help give him motivation to act properly towards his family. Obsviously you will find the activity with the right people. I recommend martial arts because of it's emphasis on respect. My boys are in a homeschool scout troop/pack. Maybe you can find one in your area. We also participate in a homeschool PE class at our YMCA. These are just some ideas that may help your ds feel like he has friends/community.

[Denisemomof4]

Several things you say concern me, and all the concerns I have about your situation I have already dealt with. We decided to keep ds in ps, and I will ALWAYS regret that decision. I felt that he was getting older and needed input into the choice. Dh was afraid he'd make my life a living hell with him not at home (although I am the toughie with the kids, dh is NOT. He didn't have a father growing up [he was sick for five years and then died when dh was 11] and I believe this is why.)

 

Anyway the concerns I have are this:

 

His attitude: My sons attitude got worse in middle school, but mostly in 8th grade. He had a temper as a toddler, then was an easy going kid, and caused more problems as a teen. Oldest was just easy. You son is experiencing hormonal issues which affect his behavior, but it's going to get worse before it gets better. 8th grade was a horrific year for my ds, but we had SO many stressors in our lives. While I know the outside stress really were too much for him to handle, school, peers (whom he places an extremely high value on and he's the "cool" kid with many friends. I actually find this aspect of him mostly negative as he's picked up SO MANY behaviors, mostly negative, in PS and he uses them to be cool, to have kids look up to him, etc.) hormones, etc. is what threw him over the edge. Add in having SIX teachers, two who were HORRIBLE and caused him to negatively spiral, it was NOT good. Middle school (grades 7 and 8) have always been known to be the toughest as they prepare for high school, are FLOODED with hormones, etc.

 

How he treats his siblings: I believe this, too, will get worse before it gets better, and it may not get better with him in ps. I experienced this with ds and I will explain what happened further down.

 

Being influenced by his peers: this won't stop until they're out of ps. Even those kids we think aren't influenced by peers, most are. IT's just a fact.

 

My son was pretty manageable for the most part, but then he suffered a double concussion last fall. Things got really bad after that. His add symptoms got worse, and his behaviors got really bad. I was actually afraid we'd have to intervene with therapy, boot camp, etc. Dh and I came down HARD on him. He *hated* being in our home, *HATED* being here. He would scream, swear, etc. We were NOT going to tolerate that. Dh had many, many talks with him, and he was grounded for months on end. Why so long? Because when his behaviors persisted, he was told that he had to prove that he was going to work on himself before he could get ANY privileges back. And being out of his room was a privilege. All he had to do was write, draw and read. He did a TON of this but after 3 months or so, he was fed up. Dh told him that until he apologized to me, his brother, and his sisters for the way he treated us, he was not going to be allowed out of his room. And, he had to stay at school until dh picked him up on the way home. Dh was NOT going to allow him to bully me or the girls when our oldest was at work. Now I know a part of this was caused by his head injury, because he still has symptoms of that. But still, he had to learn what would be tolerated and what would not be tolerated. And, we had him evaluated by a psychologist and are trying meds on him to stabilize his moods (which the dr. thinks being on for a year will help) and we're doing neurofeedback.

 

Ds apologized a few times before it was done right, and this caused him to spend extra weeks in his room. "I know I screwed up so I'm sorry for my part in it, but I still don't see how I did anything wrong, but I have to say this to get privileges," simply didn't work. ;) After he apologized and his behavior improved, dh allowed him to be out of his room and watching tv with the family, but NO computer, NO video games, NO time with friends until he built up his relationship with me and his siblings. He went to work right away.

 

It's been several peaceful months now. When I see he's having a bad day, I give him his space. He's not really been on any meds to help him yet (are on a second med. to see if this won't cause side affects) and sometimes I feel we shouldn't even do that because for about 2 - 3 months now it's been quite peaceful.

 

While things may never get as bad as they did with my son, because I'm CERTAIN his head injury was the cause of most of this because these behaviors started THE DAY after it happened, it does sound like YOUR son may go down a similar path. One of the reasons we really came down hard ASIDE from the fact that we didn't allow that behavior in the house is that I was starting to get a little scared. At 14 he's already over 6 ft. tall and he's FAR stronger than me. My brother WAS physical with my mother, so I had this fear in the back of my head.

 

While we didn't bring him home, I will always regret that decision with BOTH my boys. My oldest graduates in a week and a half. For the most part, grades 7 and up for youngest, 9 and up for oldest (because that's when he started ps) the experience was pretty much all bad.

 

On the other hand, even though my boys are in ps, we worked through everything. We went through all the h*ll I mention here, and younger ds is really trying hard. He's asking to help me. We're enjoying each other more now than we have in years. We both have warped senses of humor and we laugh at the same senseless things. :D I am really glad we went through that bad spot to get where we are today. But I'm CERTAIN that it wouldn't have been so hard to live in harmony if we had brought him home. But that's just for OUR family.

 

Sorry so long!!! If I can help you at all, please pm me.

:grouphug:

Edited May 26, 2010 by Denisemomof4

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sue - I have a 12 year old boy (13 next month) and the best activity we put him in was tae kwando at a place that stresses respect and character over anything else. The instructor there is so good with all the teens. I know you have him in many things, but perhaps if you evaluate what you have him in in light of what might spur him to greater respect and character?

[Remudamom]

Go Mama Go!!

[Cindyz]

This brought tears to my eyes. Thank you!

 

 

If the following does not apply to you and sending your son to ps is the appropriate, studied decision that you believe in, then just disregard :) This is just the conclusion that I reached for my family:

 

Raising boys in 2010 takes enormous love...and tremendous backbone.

 

My son wanted to walk all over me, obliterate our relationship, and decimate the loving, learning environment in our home.

 

I said, "No."

 

I will win. Our relationship will stay intact, my rules for the home will prevail, all will be homeschooled, and all will grow into decent young men or I will (literally) die trying to make it so.

 

I wasn't raised in a trailer park by the world's most dedicated mother for nothing. I didn't have a lifetime behind me of work, deprivation, and devastating loss just to sit down and wail when my fairy tale didn't work out.

 

What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.

 

I am strong enough to LOVE a boy through puberty, even in a culture that would like nothing better than to bring him down.

 

I am strong enough to cut out ALL negative influences. I don't mean that I am manipulating a nicey-nice environment for my son. I mean that I am cutting out anyone who will excuse him, coddle him, flatter him, yell at him, or fail to see his true worth.

 

He has two people left in his life now.

 

 

 

(Just kidding. Thank the Lord, I did promptly find excellent role models and mentors for him.)

 

I am strong enough to do my crying in private. I do have to cry sometimes, when I realize that my beautiful golden boy has been tempted and has fallen into some of the worst that society has to offer. I also have to cry when I realize how badly he wants to rise above. I love this kid, and I have to cry when I realize I only have 4 or 5 more years of having him at home.

 

I am strong enough to be entirely unflappable, proving to him that I will never wig out emotionally if he shares something that is, in truth, turning my hair gray even as I stand there. (Again with the crying in private.)

 

I am strong enough to weather his mood swings and still smile at him when he looks at me. I am strong enough to discuss quantum physics with him one minute, and repair his beloved stuffed animal in the next. I can switch from rhetoric-level literature discussions to a laugh over a comic book without pause.

 

I am strong enough to spend hours of my day rubbing off on this kid. I try to give the best and deepest of what I can bring to his education, every day of my life.

 

I am unflappable. I am unstoppable. I am a force of nature, and I am doing what is now known in this house as "Mama's End Run Around Puberty."

 

And it is all a sham! I am not this strong! I am a faker! I am an actress! This is harder than childbirth. Harder than those baby and toddler years. Harder than poverty, harder than lupus, harder than anything hard I've ever been through.

 

I've never been prouder to lay down my life for something. Nathaniel gets my best, and he will never know what it cost me to not send him to school and not give up on him.

 

Matter of fact, if he looks back someday and says, "Adolescence was very hard on me, but Mama just calmly helped me through it," and doesn't give it another thought, I'll know I succeeded.

[fairfarmhand]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165815&highlight=boot+camp

 

I showed this to my husband (posting #4) and he said that kind of thing would have worked wonders with him when he was 12-13. We are keeping it in our back pockets for the future.

[Chris in PA]

Sue,

You and your dh have made the right decision. Just stick to your guns. My ds is 12 as well and there have been many days this school year where I thought I would pull my hair out of my head (the pre-teen attitude and mouth). But it is my dh and my God-given responsibility to train him up the right way. What helped us the most was my dh just sitting my son down occasionally and reminding him of how a godly man behaves.

 

You can do this!!!!!! :thumbup:

Trust in the Lord and lean on Him for strength.

 

Blessings

[MagistraMichelle]

My 15 yo ds is giving me gray hair. He is a moody, lazy, unsocial, unmotivated, grouchy young man who I am afraid will end up on the streets one day. Not because we will send him there but because he thinks he wants to live a 'rockstar' life.

 

In fact. I don't want to high-jack the OP so I will start a new thread for this one.

 

But I am eagerly reading all the responses here because I am desperate. Not 'getting desperate', but DESPERATE.

 

Michelle

[Jennefer@SSA]

Thank you for this. Thank you very much. I have printed it out and put it in my teacher binder in a section I have for reminding me why I do what I do on tough days. This is such an amazing encouragement and I have not stopped thinking about it since I first read it a few hours ago. It's a manifesto of sorts about homeschooling in general and beautifully written to boot!

 

 

If the following does not apply to you and sending your son to ps is the appropriate, studied decision that you believe in, then just disregard :) This is just the conclusion that I reached for my family:

 

Raising boys in 2010 takes enormous love...and tremendous backbone.

 

My son wanted to walk all over me, obliterate our relationship, and decimate the loving, learning environment in our home.

 

I said, "No."

 

I will win. Our relationship will stay intact, my rules for the home will prevail, all will be homeschooled, and all will grow into decent young men or I will (literally) die trying to make it so.

 

I wasn't raised in a trailer park by the world's most dedicated mother for nothing. I didn't have a lifetime behind me of work, deprivation, and devastating loss just to sit down and wail when my fairy tale didn't work out.

 

What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.

 

I am strong enough to LOVE a boy through puberty, even in a culture that would like nothing better than to bring him down.

 

I am strong enough to cut out ALL negative influences. I don't mean that I am manipulating a nicey-nice environment for my son. I mean that I am cutting out anyone who will excuse him, coddle him, flatter him, yell at him, or fail to see his true worth.

 

He has two people left in his life now.

 

 

 

(Just kidding. Thank the Lord, I did promptly find excellent role models and mentors for him.)

 

I am strong enough to do my crying in private. I do have to cry sometimes, when I realize that my beautiful golden boy has been tempted and has fallen into some of the worst that society has to offer. I also have to cry when I realize how badly he wants to rise above. I love this kid, and I have to cry when I realize I only have 4 or 5 more years of having him at home.

 

I am strong enough to be entirely unflappable, proving to him that I will never wig out emotionally if he shares something that is, in truth, turning my hair gray even as I stand there. (Again with the crying in private.)

 

I am strong enough to weather his mood swings and still smile at him when he looks at me. I am strong enough to discuss quantum physics with him one minute, and repair his beloved stuffed animal in the next. I can switch from rhetoric-level literature discussions to a laugh over a comic book without pause.

 

I am strong enough to spend hours of my day rubbing off on this kid. I try to give the best and deepest of what I can bring to his education, every day of my life.

 

I am unflappable. I am unstoppable. I am a force of nature, and I am doing what is now known in this house as "Mama's End Run Around Puberty."

 

And it is all a sham! I am not this strong! I am a faker! I am an actress! This is harder than childbirth. Harder than those baby and toddler years. Harder than poverty, harder than lupus, harder than anything hard I've ever been through.

 

I've never been prouder to lay down my life for something. Nathaniel gets my best, and he will never know what it cost me to not send him to school and not give up on him.

 

Matter of fact, if he looks back someday and says, "Adolescence was very hard on me, but Mama just calmly helped me through it," and doesn't give it another thought, I'll know I succeeded.