Spin-off: borrowing money for college.

[Catherine]

In another thread I was surprised at the numbers of responders who appear to believe that borrowing money for higher education is a poor investment. I consider it one of the very best investments, and borrowed heavily to pay for my two degrees. I've never once regretted it. There is no way I could have expected money from family to pay for my education, and while I'm sure I could have found some way to do it more slowly, working simultaneously to pay it off as I went, I didn't choose this. My dh also brought heavy indebtedness to our marriage and we paid it off early, living frugally and pouring every cent for a few years into our educational debt. There is data out there that seems to show that a degree translates to far higher lifetime earning power, and thus borrowing makes sense, done wisely.

 

I am curious to hear from people who are against borrowing for higher education. Are you against it because you oppose borrowing in general, because you believe education should not produce debt, or for some other reason?

[May]

I think it depends on what kind of degree is being pursued. My friend's son has a pricey art degree (which the parents paid for) and he is barely getting by. Before I would borrow money to pay for a child's education, I would have to see how the degree would transfer into a job.

[Nestof3]

I don't see college debt as a bad investment either, but I do think a person should do everything he or she can to make those decisions wisely -- looking at all options, like CLEPing out, community college, going locally, etc.

 

I have a greater problem with people deciding they can afford college once they realize they qualify for taxpayer aid.

[2squared]

I am not anti-debt as much as I am anti-wise choices. I think a lot of people rack of college debt that is unnecessary and it detrimentally impacts their future choices. I graduated with a public school 4 year degree making good money but debt free. I had a lot of flexibility with my life. My dh graduated with a public school 4 year degree with quite a bit of debt. That debt hindered our lives, especially since he was working a job which didn't require a 4 year degree.

 

Fast forward a few years and dh went to law school. He borrowed $5K for his first semester before we were married. After that, we cash flowed everything and paid off the debt within months of his graduating. He knowingly picked a little lesser ranked law school that was also cheaper. When he graduated, he was working the same job and making the same money as people who had paid A LOT of money for their legal education and had A LOT of debt. Their life choices are much more limited than ours.

 

I don't think it's wise to pay so much for your degree that you can't afford the debt. If you are going to pick a career field that is low paying, then you need to seriously think about not incurring debt to get there.

[MeaganS]

We're facing a situation like this. My husband is starting medical school in 3 months and has been accepted at 2 different schools, and we have to let them know which we choose in a week. We've been having a hard time deciding how much of an investment is worth it. One school is $47,000/year with no scholarships or anything, and the other is $16,000/year with likely scholarships and they are within 2 places of each other in the rankings. The first is definitely a better fit for my dh because of their style, but the second would likely get us to about the same place career-wise. We've almost decided to go to the second school, even though it's not as prestigious, because when it comes down to it, a doctor is going to get a job regardless of where they went to school.

 

I think it's all about investments vs. returns. By all means take out school loans if you have to, but don't be dumb about it. Try to minimize that debt. If you can get the same returns with less debt, then that's the obvious choice.

[Liza Q]

Are you against it because you oppose borrowing in general, because you believe education should not produce debt, or for some other reason?

 

We oppose borrowing in general. Well, we have a mortgage so it is not an absolute rule. But it is true for everything else - no car payment, no credit card debt. If we had a true emergency we could borrow but we hope we never have to!

 

About college specifically....we are not inclined to go into debt for college and we are encouraging our children not to borrow unless they are absolutely sure they need to.

 

Our oldest is in college and living at home to keep down expenses (well, she wanted to stay home as well, which is a plus!). She has a partial academic scholarship and we do not qualify for any aid. She is paying part of the tuition and her transportation and food costs. We are paying the rest of the tuition, an amount we agreed on before she chose a college, and we still buy her clothes and stuff.

 

Our plan should work well for another year. After that, our next daughter will be starting college. At that point we will split the money we have between the two girls and we expect that one/both may need to take out loans for the next few years.

 

We have a plan so it will be even-steven - my husband does not want to favor one over the other. If our second daughter goes to a less expensive college we will still give her the same amount - she can use it to study abroad or save it for grad school or buy a car! Our oldest chose a college that was more expensive so she knows that any money she makes over the summers (and everything she has saved over tha past few years) will go right into tuition and she is less likely to be able to afford to study abroad or be able to go straight into grad school.

 

So I guess our belief is borrow only if you really have to and only as much as you really need and be prepared to pay it back as soon as possible. Mostly, we want them to live frugally and plan carefully.

[LisaKinVA]

We expect that our children (at least a few of them) will probably have to borrow something to finish college. Work alone just won't do it any more. That said, a couple seem "destined" to attend academies (academically/personality). We will encourage the girls to either go "close to home" and/or attend a school that accepts CLEP -- UNLESS they get some sort of signifcant aid.

 

I don't want any of my children graduating with more than $20k in debt (something that could be paid off in about 5 years), and I don't want any of my girls graduating with even THAT much debt if they plan on marrying and having a family. It's too much of a burden. And it's inescapable.

 

We won't have much, if any, money to help out. I'm hoping we can afford books, we will help with incidentals, and car insurance while they are in school -- but not much more.

[Catherine]

I went to medical school and I remember hearing more than once the joke: What do you call the person who graduated last in his medical school class? Answer: Doctor.

[Catherine]

I said I borrowed "heavily" but actually, I didn't, at least compared to many classmates. But I will admit that between dh and I, we owed enough to buy a small, but comfortable house! A significant part of my education was paid for with grants, and scholarships.

[TravelingChris]

I am one who believes that for many people, a college education or even higher education is a very good investment. It was for us. My husband does have skills that don't require college but he wouldn't be making anywhere near the salary nor having the benefits he does now if he had used those. Furthermore, without his college degree and subsequent employment, he would never had had the opportunity to develop this other skill he could use for employment.

 

Now this doesn't mean that people shouldn't consider future salaries in college educations. I don't think it makes sense to borrow a lot to go into a low paying occupation. But to borrow maybe the same amount and go into an occupation that pays higher than median income of all adults right from the start sounds like a very wise investment. It all depends.

[tex-mex]

I am one who believes that for many people, a college education or even higher education is a very good investment. It was for us. My husband does have skills that don't require college but he wouldn't be making anywhere near the salary nor having the benefits he does now if he had used those. Furthermore, without his college degree and subsequent employment, he would never had had the opportunity to develop this other skill he could use for employment.

 

Now this doesn't mean that people shouldn't consider future salaries in college educations. I don't think it makes sense to borrow a lot to go into a low paying occupation. But to borrow maybe the same amount and go into an occupation that pays higher than median income of all adults right from the start sounds like a very wise investment. It all depends.

Very nicely stated. :iagree:

 

Hubby and I married young in college -- both of us incurred @ $25K in student loans. ($50 K total) I went to a private Christian college with scholarships and grants. But still had to take out a loan in addition to working as an RC in the dorms (while newlyweds) for free room/board.

 

Fast forward to graduation and one year of my Master's education under my belt... got the state credential to full time teach in ps. Hubby was working as an assoc. prof and we agreed we'd live frugally off his meager salary -- and that my paycheck (I earned more wages) was to go towards paying off our student loans. We were debt free in 2 years. We were married for 8 years before having kids -- I was a schoolteacher when sonny boy came into the world. ;) But looking back, the loans would be done again in a heartbeat. You do need a game plan of how it will be paid off ASAP.

Edited April 23, 2010 by tex-mex

[Carol in Cal.]

If I have to borrow to do that, I will. I don't want her to start out in life saddled with debts. I want her to launch freely, with a good education under her belt, and lots of options open to her.

 

Having said that, it's going to be difficult. My DH will work past retirement age. We will have a more difficult retirement regardless. I am working fulltime now, and will ramp up my career once I've finished the homeschooling phase.

 

But this is my conviction.

 

I remember those children in ghettos who were told that someone would pay for college for them. I remember how much better they did because they had hope and encouragement. Why would I not, then, give that to my own child, who I love more than life itself?

[creekland]

I'm not at all against borrowing for a college degree (will be there soon as my oldest is heading to college in the fall), but I am really against borrowing to go to a prestigious school just for the name when something less expensive will do just fine. I don't do name brand clothing either... but we do buy clothing that fits our purpose and will last (quality for purpose counts, name does not).

 

And, like others have mentioned, we're wary about what degree they pursue. Some degrees simply don't have the job prospects others do. Debt that is a reasonable investment is ok (at a reasonable amount). Debt that is just debt is not.

 

Studying to get scores that produce merit scholarships is VERY worthwhile. If a school doesn't offer merit scholarships (or low price), we don't consider the school. It's not worth it to us no matter how good the school is supposed to be or how qualified my kids would be to attend.

[LizzyBee]

IRT to the other thread, I don't think borrowing $15k for one semester without a definite plan to finish a degree is worthwhile.

 

I have mixed feelings about borrowing for education in other circumstances. I have a lot of friends whose college debt created hardship. I gave up a full scholarship and quit college after a year because I hated the program I was in. When I went back (different college, different major), I worked my way through college and have no regrets. I can see borrowing for grad school, but prefer my kids avoid debt for undergrad.

[Carol in Cal.]

IRT to the other thread, I don't think borrowing $15k for one semester without a definite plan to finish a degree is worthwhile.

 

I have mixed feelings about borrowing for education in other circumstances. I have a lot of friends whose college debt created hardship. I gave up a full scholarship and quit college after a year because I hated the program I was in. When I went back (different college, different major), I worked my way through college and have no regrets. I can see borrowing for grad school, but prefer my kids avoid debt for undergrad.

 

However, it was possible then and it's so much less possible now. College costs have increase a lot more quickly than wages. I don't think that I would be able to save up in 6 months enough to pay for 6 months of tuition/books/living expenses now as I did then.

[Renee in NC]

IRT to the other thread, I don't think borrowing $15k for one semester without a definite plan to finish a degree is worthwhile.

 

I have mixed feelings about borrowing for education in other circumstances. I have a lot of friends whose college debt created hardship. I gave up a full scholarship and quit college after a year because I hated the program I was in. When I went back (different college, different major), I worked my way through college and have no regrets. I can see borrowing for grad school, but prefer my kids avoid debt for undergrad.

 

:iagree:

 

It's one thing to get loans for med school, another entirely for an undergrad psychology degree.:tongue_smilie:

[ScoutTN]

We are generally anti-debt people. Dave Ramsey fans. Our kids can go to a state school undergrad and get a good education. We'll help with tuition and they will work. If they can get scholarships/grants at an out of state or private school, that's great. I don't believe that debt is necessary to get a good college education. If your circumstances require it, you can find a way to make it work without debt. Motivated learners always do.

 

As for grad school, they will make their own choices.

 

I think one's life can be very limited by the large debt many professional degree programs require. Docs who can't be missionaries or work in clinics for the uninsured because they need the big paycheck to pay off debt. Moms who would rather be home with their children but can't because they have a mountain of debt. Dads who work 70 hour weeks for years and years and miss their kids growing up because they need the $$ to pay off debt. Debt also seriously hinders ability to give to charity.

 

It's great to have a plan, but things don't always work out according to plan. Young couples get pregnant unexpectedly. People lose good jobs or become disabled. The economy tanks. I'll live conservatively and assume less financial risk.

 

I went to very elite boarding school and a prestigious university (on huge scholarships - no debt) and I don't believe that the education is necessarily better at a "name brand" school. You get out of it what you put into it. What you can do and your character are more important than the school name on your diploma.

Edited April 24, 2010 by ScoutTN

[littlebug42]

I went to college for 5 years at a small private university. Even with the help of scholarships, work study etc, I currently owe about $45,000 with my mother owing another $10,000 or so. I have also been out of college for 15 years and due to some years where I couldn't afford the payments, the debt just kept increasing. I think my education was worth some investment but I certainly regret how I went about it and it was not worth what I paid for it.

 

I moved 1200 miles away from home, partied way too much and now, when I actually have control of my life, we will be paying for those choices for a very long time. I will do everything possible to ensure that my kids do not cripple themselves with that kind of debt if at all possible. Currently, my husband works for a state university and our kids can go there with us only having to pay 25 % of the in state tuition plus books. They could also live at home. As long as the benefit holds, that is what they will do unless they get full scholarships somewhere else.

[JFSinIL]

When my ds just going off to college this fall thought he was a history major, I did not like the idea of him graduating with a large loan debt. now that he is Biology, probably pre-med, it does not seem as dire.

 

Hubby FINALLY paid off his last student loan less than a year ago. We will manage to help three kids get through college (they have to earn big merit scholarships, too, or start at cc) but with one disabled son to care for and being 50....we will NOT take out any parental loans. I can see us now, 65 and with over $50,000 in loans to start paying....NOT!!!!!

 

As it is, our retirement plan is to mooch off our kids, living in their basement/garages and eating cat food :glare:

 

I might add - thanks to the needs to SIllyAutismBoy and lack of resources in our state (ranked dead LAST in services for the disabled) I am not making any $$ off my PhD ABD. Note - I went to cc, then state U., then a private school - tuition remission since Mom worked there*. I also put in hours at D'Land and a local camera store, then went to University of State (with a TA then RA pay to help, plus working in my dorm's food service)...then a year off to just WORK, then $$$ Northwestern BUT for the last I had full tuition scholarship and between working and the fact that life was just plain CHEAPER then only needed a $5,000 loan, tops. I worked the entire time I was in school, no matter which school, too.

 

Part time jobs just won't pay for college anymore.

 

* I HATED the three final semesters I spent being known far and wide as "So-and so's daughter" and hearing how great my mom was almost every day. She worked in the college president's office, so everyone knew her.

Edited April 24, 2010 by JFSinIL

[tatertotschool]

I don't regret my student loans. However, I am a stay at home mom that won't make any $ of my MA anytime soon. If I had to do it over again, I'd take one class at a time and pay for them as I went. I didn't take out all the loans I could have taken- but I did take out loans to help buy a new laptop, and honestly more than I should've. I wasn't a teenager either and I didn't make decisions I was proud of.

 

I am opposed to student loans for teenagers who will start their lives out owing several thousand dollars in student loans. For some degree programs and for professional degrees, student loans is necessary. My husband has just an Associate's and he makes more money than I ever could've made. I'd like for my children to make more thought out decisions of what they want to do with their lives. I'd like them to go to community college first and we'll pay for those first two years. If they don't want to work and go to college and instead choose to take out loans, I'll insist that they only take out enough to pay for their tuition.

[SW in IL]

between borrowing money to pay for your own education and borrowing money to pay for your child's education.

 

I hate to say it, but most teenagers I know are a lot like my son... They don't really know what they want to do after high school. This is the same situation I was in once I finished school. In situations like that, I feel that the parents should NOT borrow money to send their child to school. Encourage DC to work, travel, explore, discover. Then in a few years, they can go to college if that's what they want.

 

For the few kids (I know one in this category) that really do have it all together when they finish high school... I think it depends a lot on the family situation. Are there other kids in college or who soon will be? How much debt does the family have? How close are the parents to retirement? Are they able/willing to work (possibly taking on a second job) in order to finance DC's education? Another factor to consider is how well the school and the student (or the student's future plans) fit. Many students "settle" for community college because that's what their parents can afford/are willing to pay for, but then after they get their Associate's degree, they never go on to complete the Bachelor's they wanted from the start.

 

I, personally, think that if the child is serious about their education, they should take out the loans to finance it. BUT, I think that once the child has proven that they are serious about getting that college degree and putting it to good use, that the parents should be the ones paying back the loan, or at least helping to. That is what I've told my daughter and my son... I will help pay for their college after the fact.

 

Just my thoughts... I'm interested to go back and read what others have said.

 

Sue

[kalanamak]

We've almost decided to go to the second school, even though it's not as prestigious, because when it comes down to it, a doctor is going to get a job regardless of where they went to school.

 

 

Unless he is interested in a very, very competitive field, like transplant surgery or retinology, the second school is by far the best. He'll be miserable either place.:D

 

I'm lucky, I got a reasonable nest egg from my mother's will, who got it from her mother's will, and I popped it into college accounts. So, kiddo will hopefully not have to borrow much, instead going to school on his great grandmother's dime, untaxed since 1963!

 

 

I went to a public undergrad, lived very simply, worked, took over 5 years to get through, but took what I darned well liked instead of sweating over a pricey tuition to get a good income. I'm glad I did that. Opened me up to many things. My father, a professor, told me "the first four years of college are to give you a broad enough understanding of the world to be unfooled by the liars of the world." I took his words as wise, and they worked for me. YMMV.

[Mejane]

I spent four years in college and four years working and paying off loans. I finished paying at the same time I quit my job to stay home with my first child. Was it worth it? Financially, no, as much as I like having that degree.

 

For my husband, whose income has steadily increased for the past twenty years, the loans were more than well worth it.

[Laurie4b]

My parents paid for undergrad, but I was on my own for grad school. I worked some, but borrowed, too--not all that much by today's standards, but once I was out working, and wanting to buy a house, etc, those loads caught up to me. I wish that I had had much less debt, and had worked more and spent less. I think it's the difference of a youthful denial about the reality of the debt coming due...

 

Our kids will have to pay most of their college education. We have them doing a lot of cc courses so that they will go into college with at least a year under their belts--that's a 25% tuition "scholarship." We may buy a small house near campus for each of them to live in during school so that they can rent to friends and we can sell it when they graduate. But they'll mostly be on their own, as much as I would like to be able to do more for them.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Maybe I am way off on this, but.......I have not read any of the other posts, but is it perhaps just because of the way the economy is today? Unless things change, with the job shortage, and low pay across the board maybe they think they will not get a job that is worth the debt?

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I personally believe a college education is WELL worth it IF that is what the child wants! I have a nephew who makes over 75K a year and didnt go to college at all. He works in tool and die and was apprenticed. So I guess it really depends on what they want to do!

 

My dd wants to be a vet. She will go to college, she will try her hardest to get grants and scholarships but what she doesnt we will help her with (not completely pay for) and there will be loans involved. That is where her heart is that is what we are doing! :D

[Cera]

Paying for college was a factor in our decision to have only 2 children. I don't want my kids to be thousands of dollars in debt at 22. I also want them to feel like they can pursue the education they want rather than the education they feel obligated to get to afford their debt.

 

We will not take out any parent loans for their education and we will not fund their education accounts unless we can fully fund our retirement accounts. We have been very lucky thus far and have been able to contribute fully fund their accounts as well as our retirement accounts each month.

[Joanne]

I used loans (and worked off campus, unheard of at my college and also did work study and had merit scholarships). This was for my 2 undergraduate degrees which I earned simultaneously. Eventually paid off every penny and never a moment's regret about that debt.

 

I'm borrowing for my grad school. I am getting a useful degree and know exactly what I want to do with it. I do not feel we are in the position to wait, delay or put off. We also "need" the student loan reimbursement after tuition because of our living situation.

 

As for my kids, their Dad made sure that we won't have any money for their college (or our retirement, or......)

[asta]

Maybe I am way off on this, but.......I have not read any of the other posts, but is it perhaps just because of the way the economy is today? Unless things change, with the job shortage, and low pay across the board maybe they think they will not get a job that is worth the debt?

 

There was an article a few months back (don't know if it was mentioned here or not) that discussed how the College Board had grossly inflated their statistics of the "worth" of a college education vs "just" a high school diploma on the lifetime earnings of any given individual.

 

Apparently, they had been using data from the 1990s, when the economy was on a tremendous upswing, thus leading to much higher wages for those coming out of university. When the economy began to adjust downwards, however, they did not adjust their stats (it wouldn't be good for their business, afterall).

 

The difficulty with all of this is what wkw wrote and what Renee in FL wrote: what is the cost-to-benefit ratio of a uni education vs what one can actually get paid if one takes out 40, 50, 60K in loans? I'm not talking about the value of the education - of course there is value in education - I'm talking about the fact that the American uni system is, for all intents and purposes, being looked upon by society as a "job preparedness system" as much as a place to "learn". And if one is paying OUT more to "learn a job" than one can reasonably expect to be paid BACK, it is a broken system. Especially since college tuition has risen at a rate that is hugely disproportionate to the cost of living.

 

Sadly, this is primarily an American phenomenon. Other places still have guilds, apprenticeships, vocational training - places to learn how to do things that are NOT looked down upon. Uni is a place a kid goes to learn the "professional" arts such as medicine and law. It isn't the place "everyone has to go if they are ever going to get a job beyond the quickie mart."

 

This subject is a burr under my saddle. I think the whole student loan thing is a farce. There are simply too many people at uni who don't want to be there (parents making them go), are there because they don't want to work at what society perceives as a "low" job (all positions are necessary, they need to stop being treated so caste-like), or have no where else to go to "find" themselves. Perhaps if we allowed children to be children, and young adults to be young adults, they would get a pretty good idea of who they were and a vague idea of where they wanted to go - even if it was only away from mom and dad to backpack through Wyoming.

 

I better shut up now.

 

 

asta

[EmilyK]

My husband and I really enjoyed college, including the academics (we went to different schools). That's been true in our families going back several generations -- college has been a life changing experience for everyone in our family. Both of us had it one way or another covered by our families, grad school less so. We both want to pay it forward to our kids.

 

I just met up with someone who went to my college, but after me. We had a great evening reminiscing about our professors (we had many of the same ones) and how much they meant to us. We work together now, across the country, but have that connection.

 

I totally get it when people say they can't afford it but if we can we will.

 

On earning power, I think it totally depends. It worked out well for us. Others we know who didn't use their education for a job purpose, not so much (at least economically).

[Sebastian (a lady)]

There was an article a few months back (don't know if it was mentioned here or not) that discussed how the College Board had grossly inflated their statistics of the "worth" of a college education vs "just" a high school diploma on the lifetime earnings of any given individual.

 

Apparently, they had been using data from the 1990s, when the economy was on a tremendous upswing, thus leading to much higher wages for those coming out of university. When the economy began to adjust downwards, however, they did not adjust their stats (it wouldn't be good for their business, afterall).

 

The difficulty with all of this is what wkw wrote and what Renee in FL wrote: what is the cost-to-benefit ratio of a uni education vs what one can actually get paid if one takes out 40, 50, 60K in loans? I'm not talking about the value of the education - of course there is value in education - I'm talking about the fact that the American uni system is, for all intents and purposes, being looked upon by society as a "job preparedness system" as much as a place to "learn". And if one is paying OUT more to "learn a job" than one can reasonably expect to be paid BACK, it is a broken system. Especially since college tuition has risen at a rate that is hugely disproportionate to the cost of living.

 

Sadly, this is primarily an American phenomenon. Other places still have guilds, apprenticeships, vocational training - places to learn how to do things that are NOT looked down upon. Uni is a place a kid goes to learn the "professional" arts such as medicine and law. It isn't the place "everyone has to go if they are ever going to get a job beyond the quickie mart."

 

This subject is a burr under my saddle. I think the whole student loan thing is a farce. There are simply too many people at uni who don't want to be there (parents making them go), are there because they don't want to work at what society perceives as a "low" job (all positions are necessary, they need to stop being treated so caste-like), or have no where else to go to "find" themselves. Perhaps if we allowed children to be children, and young adults to be young adults, they would get a pretty good idea of who they were and a vague idea of where they wanted to go - even if it was only away from mom and dad to backpack through Wyoming.

 

I better shut up now.

 

 

asta

 

DH and I both earned masters degrees without taking on debt. Military scholarships for our undergrad. Paying out of pocket and using military tuition assistance for grad school. I say that to underscore that we are not disdainful of education.

 

On the contrary, I look at much of what passes for education at many schools around the country, and I simply can't figure out why I as a parent should be expected to pay for it or why my kids should be expected to go into debt for it. In many cases it leaves the graduate neither well trained for the world of work nor well educated.

 

Instead I see a lot of indocrination and isms. A lot of this and that studies programs that seem to be quests for justifications for victimhood and indignation. I see a severe disconnect between schools who insist that students are adults who don't have to have grades, mental health issues or violence reported to their parents but are considered dependants when it comes tuition bill time. I have huge heartburn with the expectation that we will pay more for college than others might because we have been thrifty over the last couple decades.

 

I see many colleges that tout the experience of being part of the student body as a formative experience. Well, the military and the world of work are pretty formative too. But there you get paid rather than paying for the privilege of rubbing elbows with other socially conscious and active youth (who don't have to work for their room and board).

 

So for my own kids, I'm not anti education. But I will be looking well beyond name recognition and reputation to what actually goes on at the colleges that want my money. (Like schools that claim to teach critical thinking skills but then have restrictive speech policies for students. :confused:) And I'm prepared to tell my kids that they aren't owed school money just because they turn 18, if I think they will waste the opportunity.

 

And like Asta, I do wish that a whole lot more of what are white collar jobs in the US were opened through programs that didn't involve a 4 year degree. I even saw a discussion on a foodie board about whether it was useful to go to cooking school or if one really learned most of the craft by simply working as an under chef in a series of restaurants and saving the money to invest in ones own restaurant.

[FlockOfSillies]

Asta, you're singing my song. The college tuition bubble will burst someday -- hopefully before my kids go off to college. I think people will eventually come to their senses and realize that they don't need to go to a brick-and-mortar school with the fancy stadium and the state-of-the-art library to get the knowledge they need to hold a decent job.

 

College is the new high school. A high school diploma is almost worthless, because most employers know that many high school graduates can't even read, or do arithmetic, or write a coherent email. So they use a college diploma as a screening tool to weed out the least-qualified applicants. I think everyone would be better served by "business aptitude" tests that anyone could take to prove their abilities to potential employers.

 

One of the main reasons why college has gotten so expensive is the increase in government financial aid. People said, "Boy, college sure is getting expensive." So the government said, "OK, we'll increase grants and student loans." So the colleges said, "Woo hoo! Free money! Let's build that new dorm and raise tuition!" So the parents said, "Boy, college sure is getting expensive." And on it goes...

 

Harvard has a $26 billion endowment that they're sitting on. Just living off the interest. They could afford to let all of their students go there for free, but instead they just charge even more money than most other schools to protect their reputation.

 

This kind of thing just isn't sustainable. I'm hoping the online college options will expand enough to the point where you can get a decent college education without mortgaging your whole life before it's even really begun.

 

Oh, and if they'd just stop admitting kids who don't have the chops to go to college -- the ones who spend $$$$ on remedial classes that don't count toward a degree -- well, I'd better stop now, or I'll rant about this all night.

[Wheres Toto]

I'm all for borrowing for an education if the student in question knows why they are there. Do they have a plan? Do they (not their parents) want them to go to college? Are they ready to work hard to get good grades and not waste the opportunity?

 

If they answer to any of these is No, I think either an inexpensive community college or working for awhile is a much better option.

 

When I started college (right out of high school) I wanted to be a veterinarian. I ended up stopping after 3 semesters due to lack of funds and not having done well with the freedom (over protected child and went 2000 miles away from home). I had about a 2.7 average at that point. After a year of working, I returned on my own dime while working full time and after another year (with a general Biology/Environmental Science course of study) had a 3.4 average. I ended up getting married and having my oldest but I continued college off and on for a lot of years as funding was there or I had a job with tuition reimbursement. (Full time work, full time school and sometimes a part time job as well). Eventually, I received a degree in Biology and a degree in Business Administration, Marketing. My degrees were awarded through an online school that is an accredited state college in NJ (Thomas Edison) with a 3.8 average (and believe me, other than the commute, it was not easier). I put a LOT more effort into it and did a lot better when I had to work for it and wanted to be there.

 

We're starting to think about this now with my oldest. She wants to go to NYU - which is expensive but can be done as a commuter since we live in NJ. She has two sets of parents to help pay - DH (her stepfather) and I, and her dad. Her father wants her to go to community college while I think NYU is okay since she knows what she wants to do, gets excellent grades, takes AP courses, will be taking CLEPs, etc. I have told her that whether she goes to NYU or CC will depend on the effort she puts into her grades and tests in the next couple years of high school. If she works hard, NYU is a possiblity. If she goofs off, then she's going to CC.

 

I don't think a mediocre student who isn't really sure what they want to do with their lives should be encouraged (or even allowed) to go to an expensive private school just to get away from home. Especially when it means they or their parents wind up with a huge amount of debt.

[Mejane]

:iagree::iagree::iagree: with asta and flockofsillies.

[LizzyBee]

... We will manage to help three kids get through college (they have to earn big merit scholarships, too, or start at cc) but with one disabled son to care for and being 50....we will NOT take out any parental loans. I can see us now, 65 and with over $50,000 in loans to start paying....NOT!!!!!

 

 

I wonder how much age plays into our feelings about taking out debt to pay for our children's education. When our youngest turns 18, I will be 55 and dh will be 62. There is just no way we can take out debt at that age. If our kids use debt to get through college, they will have to be responsible to repay it. We want to help them pay for college, but we can't afford to foot the entire bill.