When schools fail, don't fire teachers ~ fire the parents.

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

A couple of my ps teacher acquaintances posted this article on their facebook status. It is taking every ounce of self-control I have not to comment. (Lamaze breathing.)

 

My snarky comments: I thought the *point* of public education was to save children *from* their parents. I thought the *point* of public education was to create a great equalizer. That all children would have the same opportunities and education regardless of their social status or home life.

 

Or: That is why I choose to homeschool. It is my responsibility and a quality 'teacher' has no bearing on the success of my child's education.

 

Sigh. The thing is, I really believe that teachers can make a huge difference in the life of a child who has no learning environment at home and whose parents are uninvolved. My dh was one of those. He didn't attend school much through elementary and middle school years because of his home life. High school teachers and a swim coach helped him create a new life for himself. He was the first person in his family to graduate from high school. He went on to get a masters degree.

 

I was so moved and inspired by reading about Marva Collins and the magic she worked in children who were considered disadvantaged. Great teachers rise to the challenge.

 

FWIW, I understand the frustration teachers deal with when parents won't get involved. My dh was also a teacher, and couldn't even get parents to return his phone calls.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Heidi @ Mt Hope

[Joy at Home]

I make it my policy not to listen to Bill Maher on anything. It's better for my nerves that way.

[Mrs Mungo]

In the last few days a few people have been culled from my facebook page. Sometimes, it's just easier. Especially when these are people who don't have the nerve to debate with you in real life.

[Slartibartfast]

I make it my policy not to listen to Bill Maher on anything. It's better for my nerves that way.

 

I agree. There are some people just not worth listening to anymore. At one point I thought the jerky thing was kind of funny now it is just tiresome.

[Remudamom]

Blast them or delete them. Simmering is bad for you.

[staceyobu]

I'm not totally sure why the article is something homeschoolers would be opposed to. I don't get what firing a school full of teachers accomplishes? I understand that teachers may have to work hard to provide students with a good education, but what would I do with a class of 20+, several with behavior issues, all of them on different levels, and a majority of parents who don't feed their kids breakfast or send them to school with a coat in the winter?

 

My mom was saying in her experience that a lot of kids enter kindergarten never having cut and pasted, never colored, never played with play dough, etc. A lot of our kids are so far ahead of the game just because we do "normal" mom type things with them like bedtime stories.

[joannqn]

Oh...you have to read this response. It says that not only do teachers need to be made accountable but that good teachers can make a world of difference even when the parents don't change, and gives some figures and examples. I totally agree with the response article I linked.

[Gratia271]

If only it were that simple.

[LauraGB]

If only it were that simple.

 

:iagree:

 

I like Bill, actually. I disagree with 90% of what he has to say, but I really appreciate his style. All that rambling and offending everyone who might cross the path and he ends it with something I actually agree with:

 

"When there are no books in the house, and there are no parents in the house, you know who raises the kids? That's right, the television. Kids aren't keeping up with their studies; they're keeping up with the Kardashians. We're allowing the television, as babysitter, to turn us into a nation of slutty idiots. By the way, one sign your 9-year-old may be watching too much One Tree Hill: if she has an imaginary friend with benefits."

[SonshineLearner]

(I don't think that fire all the teachers is the answer but.....) Well, I kinda think it's more like... get some local control. I think it's Fire the heavy government and let parents talk about what they want. Let the parents be back in charge, and then "fire" them if they don't rise to the task. Remember education is the parent's job. Make them feel responsible again! Have those parents come in and sit with their children in the classroom. I don't know... I guess I feel like everyone wants change... and no one feels like it's possible.

:(

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

I'm not totally sure why the article is something homeschoolers would be opposed to. I don't get what firing a school full of teachers accomplishes? I understand that teachers may have to work hard to provide students with a good education, but what would I do with a class of 20+, several with behavior issues, all of them on different levels, and a majority of parents who don't feed their kids breakfast or send them to school with a coat in the winter?

 

My mom was saying in her experience that a lot of kids enter kindergarten never having cut and pasted, never colored, never played with play dough, etc. A lot of our kids are so far ahead of the game just because we do "normal" mom type things with them like bedtime stories.

 

I guess it is the fact (or appearance?) that teachers (and the school system in general) seem to want 100% control, but then think it should be the parents' fault when children fail. I also think that public schools are a necessity *because* of the fact that some children *don't* have a home life where there are books available, where they play with play dough, where they eat breakfast, where they are given opportunities for a full, intelligent life. (Such as my dh's childhood.) These are the children who need teachers the most. If the teachers are failing them then the schools are failing, and obviously the parents can't pick up the slack.

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

(I don't think that fire all the teachers is the answer but.....) Well, I kinda think it's more like... get some local control. I think it's Fire the heavy government and let parents talk about what they want. Let the parents be back in charge, and then "fire" them if they don't rise to the task. Remember education is the parent's job. Make them feel responsible again! Have those parents come in and sit with their children in the classroom. I don't know... I guess I feel like everyone wants change... and no one feels like it's possible.

:(

 

Exactly. Take away the heavy government. Let the parents have some control....some say over educational decisions. THEN 'fire' them if they fail. But don't take education completely out of the parents' hands and blame them when the educational system doesn't work.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Heidi @ Mt Hope

[Aubrey]

(I don't think that fire all the teachers is the answer but.....) Well, I kinda think it's more like... get some local control. I think it's Fire the heavy government and let parents talk about what they want. Let the parents be back in charge, and then "fire" them if they don't rise to the task. Remember education is the parent's job. Make them feel responsible again! Have those parents come in and sit with their children in the classroom. I don't know... I guess I feel like everyone wants change... and no one feels like it's possible.

:(

 

Parents...I'm not sure most of them would know what to do if control was given back to them. Not the ones I encountered, anyway. I was in a conference w/ one parent, all of her dd's teachers, & our admin. The parent yelled at all of us because her dd had been skipping school & we had not notified her sooner & accused us of just being there for the paycheck. :lol:

 

If she had *looked* at her dd, she wouldn't have been surprised, kwim? That kid had her mom played, though, & knew it.

 

It's a strange feeling, though, to sit in a room of well-educated colleagues & have someone who looks exactly like one of your...less-ambitious?...students cuss you out as if you were their mutt dog & expect that you just have to take it.

 

I chose not to.

 

Some parents cussed me out for calling them at all. When their kids got in trouble, I was racist. One came in my classroom, knocked over furniture as she crossed the room yelling at me, & proceeded to try to have me fired. (Then she found out how much worse her dd's behavior was than I'd reported.)

 

The decent parents were few & far between. Between them, their kids, & the admin, I think it's entirely possible for teachers to suffer from post traumatic stress disorder.

 

ETA: I should clarify that I actually agree w/ you, lol, I just get carried away when I think about the parents of the ps kids I've encountered.

[Aubrey]

Oh...you have to read this response. It says that not only do teachers need to be made accountable but that good teachers can make a world of difference even when the parents don't change, and gives some figures and examples. I totally agree with the response article I linked.

 

I don't know...I have never been the parent of a ps kid, so w/ caution...isn't it ultimately us, as parents & taxpayers & citizens who *do* w/ our votes & our presence make those decisions? I mean, if these things in the schools bother us, shouldn't we be taking responsibility to change them?

 

A good teacher in every classroom might make a difference, but the way the current system would achieve that is to hire ONE (good) teacher & smush the whole lot of American kids into her classroom, lol. PP said something about 20+ kids in a classroom. I had one class w/ over 40. The rest were just over 30. Sometime that yr, someone published a study that low student-teacher ratios do nothing to improve education. I wonder who paid them to come to that conclusion!

 

And do you know how they determine who good teachers are? It's a complete sham. My admin tried to give me "acceptable" scores in all areas except classroom management, where she marked "needs improvement." She performed my evaluation illegally, would not respond to my concerns, threatened me, lied to me, & ultimately gave me "acceptable" across the board. Did I deserve that? Neither she nor I thought so.

 

My TAKS pass rate was double that of teachers around me w/ decades of experience, & the whole yr was like a surreal hazing event. We were required to substitute for other teachers during our planning periods, provide tissues out of our own salaries for testing, & a host of other things that teachers, by law, are specifically protected from. But if you didn't cooperate, they'd get you.

 

I had to administer the TAKS test w/ the one guy in the school who wouldn't play their game, & boy was he an unhappy man. They were always trying to fire him, trying to catch him at something, etc. He didn't seem like a very good teacher--not that you can tell much during testing--but I'd be willing to bet that it was the system that made him that way.

[Haiku]

I read the Bill Maher article. Is he really saying anything we don't already know? That the parents' involvement in their child's education is one of the biggest predictors of a child's success? Don't we all know that? Isn't that kinda why we are homeschooling?

 

Tara

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

I read the Bill Maher article. Is he really saying anything we don't already know? That the parents' involvement in their child's education is one of the biggest predictors of a child's success? Don't we all know that? Isn't that kinda why we are homeschooling?

 

Tara

 

:001_smile: Do you think the teachers (and Bill Maher) would approve of our solution?

[Haiku]

:001_smile: Do you think the teachers (and Bill Maher) would approve of our solution?

 

I know that some teachers not only approve of homeschooling, they homeschool their own kids! As for what Bill Maher would think, I haven't the faintest idea. I barely know who the man is. Is he the guy who had a show called Politically Incorrect? I think my husband watched it a few times. I never did. I tend not to follow newsy-type celebrities.

 

My dd goes to a school that is specifically designed to help kids who probably couldn't get to college without intensive intervention get to college. The parental commitment is pretty large. They lay it out before you even apply what is expected of the parents, and they have a very strict policy about handling the situation when parents fail to keep up their end of the bargain. I read in the newspaper this weekend that 100% of graduates of this school (in its seven years of existence) have gone on to college, and 84% have remained there.

 

Tara

[LauraGB]

:001_smile: Do you think the teachers (and Bill Maher) would approve of our solution?

 

Teachers? For the most part, nah. But Bill Maher? Quite possibly. He comes off as a hard a$$, but I do think he seriously considers his stance. I think that's why I like him, even though I don't always agree on the journey, he seems capable of seeing all sides of a situation once they are pointed out. I think he'd be a fun fellow to with whom to discuss a lot of issues. I guess that's why he's lasted so long as an entertainer, eventhough he's made some of the most asinine remarks I've ever heard.

[Danestress]

I don't like his vulgarity but I also don't think I was his intended audience, and if the link hadn't been posted here, I probably would not have seen it or read it. I guess he can be vulgar if wants. I'd rather not read it.

 

But since I did, I have to say that I don't disagree with his fundamental position. I know very few teachers who are not dedicated, intelligent, and committed to their children, and I know a lot of teachers - in my family and amongst friends. I didn't love all of my son's teachers, but very few were lazy or unkind. I've never had one of them be ugly about homeschooling either - without exception they have all been very positive about what I am doing, and it's not because I am some kind of uber-homeschool mom. I wonder sometimes about the hostility to teachers on this board. Our experiences have obviously been very different.

 

I do think that parents have much more impact on their children than teachers do. I don't really like the snide attitude toward those parents that Maher exhibits. I'm sure we all know parents who are doing the best they can with very limited financial, emotional, and intellectual resources. So I have a lot of sympathy for parents who are trying to help kids do well in school when they themselves never finished school or didn't have any support. But while I can form arguments against what Maher is writing, I think he is more right that he is wrong.

[EmilyK]

One of the reasons my kids have/will leave public school is that the teachers are forced to deal almost exclusively with helping the kids who have no home support. Much as I think that is who we should be saving -- I have done a complete 180 on many education issues. It is amazing to me that society holds the schools accountable when the parents have them 91 percent of the time until age 19 (according to a recent George Will piece I read, and this is a social liberal quoting him). I really think we should be talking about how to teach parents how to parent rather than thinking that the schools can fix everything. The things I have seen volunteering are amazing. There's no way I can imagine to catch these kids completely up unless we lock the functional kids in a box (I know some of you will say that's what we are doing). The nonprofit volunteering I do (and contributions I make) are directed to the good outfits who are teaching parents how to read to their kids, how to open the backpack etc. It all starts in the home.

[coffeefreak]

I actually agree with him. You can take the BEST teachers out there and put them in the worst ps in the country and nothing will happen. Why? Because they don't get the parental support they need.

 

I reference her often, but my sister teaches Math in one of the poorest, depressed areas of the nation. She CAN'T give homework. Why? Because the parents won't follow up and make their kids do it. When she did give the kids homework, they consistently came back with 0's and she was going to have to fail them over homework. When she tried to keep kids after school to HELP them, the parents came in and YELLED at her because they need their kids to watch the little ones after schools, but she gets less than 10% to show up for parent teacher conferences or to pick up report cards. Granted, most of these parents are single parents, but there are plenty of single Moms out there that work 2 jobs AND ride their kids about homework and grades.

 

The value of education falls to parents. I had PLENTY of bad teachers (7 different schools) and I have a college degree. Why? Because my parents rode my behind and didn't let me blame the teachers. One year, when I complained about the teacher being unreasonable, my father replied, "People are unreasonable, get used to it. Your teacher is your boss for the year, do what she says and get an A." My 4th grade year, the teacher told my mom, "If I gave enough work everyday for your daughter to have homework, the rest of the class would fail. Be glad she's so advanced this is easy for her." (I was reading novels all day in class because the work was too easy) My Dad said, "You'll get all A's and here's some books I want you to read and report back to me on." In 7th grade, I signed up for ALL remedial classes:lol: (Gosh that was a great month). My Dad went to open house and sat through one class. He got up, hunted down the guidance counselor, and re-arranged my schedule. He came home, gave me my new "advanced classes" schedule, and said, "Nice try. Don't do it again." Can you tell I was the poster child for under achiever of the year?:lol: At any rate, if he had let the PS raise me, I'd be a juvenile delinquent that never made it out of High School, much less college.

 

If more parents were involved in their children's education, we could run the bad teachers out! One upset parent NEVER turns the tide. You need a CLASSROOM full of upset parents. Sadly, most parents feel they have no say and bad school experiences are a right of passage. It's too bad.

 

OK, I'll hop down now :D Just wanted to say, Bill Maher is right on this and I wouldn't be offended by it.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[KidsHappen]

To a certain degree, I agree with him, that's why I am homeschooling. I do have two in PS but believe me I am actively involved in their education and if I saw any decline in their learning, I would yank them out so fast their heads would spin. I will admit that it is a very complicated subject though and there are no easy answers: fire all the teachers or fire all the parents is not going to solve the problem.

[Joker]

I don't think it's all the teachers or the parents fault. I believe it is the fault of the administrators and the regulations they are made to enforce. My brother went into the ROTC at Berkeley. He spent the summer before his senior year in bootcamp. The guidance counselor informed him and my dad that he would not be able to graduate because he was short a PE req. :confused: My dad fought and lost. My brother took an extra class over the summer between senior year and college just to graduate.

[Jamee]

I actually agree with him. You can take the BEST teachers out there and put them in the worst ps in the country and nothing will happen. Why? Because they don't get the parental support they need.

 

I reference her often, but my sister teaches Math in one of the poorest, depressed areas of the nation. She CAN'T give homework. Why? Because the parents won't follow up and make their kids do it. When she did give the kids homework, they consistently came back with 0's and she was going to have to fail them over homework. When she tried to keep kids after school to HELP them, the parents came in and YELLED at her because they need their kids to watch the little ones after schools, but she gets less than 10% to show up for parent teacher conferences or to pick up report cards. Granted, most of these parents are single parents, but there are plenty of single Moms out there that work 2 jobs AND ride their kids about homework and grades.

 

If more parents were involved in their children's education, we could run the bad teachers out! One upset parent NEVER turns the tide. You need a CLASSROOM full of upset parents. Sadly, most parents feel they have no say and bad school experiences are a right of passage. It's too bad.

 

OK, I'll hop down now :D Just wanted to say, Bill Maher is right on this and I wouldn't be offended by it.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

 

:iagree:Couldn't have said it better! DH has taught in three different districts now and this one has a ton of parent support. What a difference in the classroom for him because the parents can be there to help and respond. We've been the one parent who has had issues and we've been with the classroom of upset parents. It definitely takes more than one to make a difference.

[RanchGirl]

The irony is that they're admitting what statistics show - that teachers have very little impact on a child's education. So why do we keep throwing money at schools and expecting better results? Why not take some of that money and decrease taxes so more moms can stay at home and raise their children?? Offer private school vouchers and/or tax credits for homeschooling so parents can decide what is best for their family?

[Just Robyn]

Well, I agree with everyone a little and disagree with everyone a little.

 

Yes, parents need to be more involved. I would probably be inclined to blame them before the teachers (except for the teachers who are truly BAD no matter what).

 

Yes, I'm sure many teachers could use a refresher course on motivation, patience, methods etc.

 

However, it seems to me both articles neglected to address what I think the real problem is, the WHOLE public school system. It needs an overhaul and that is going to cost LOTS of money and it would probably continue to cost much more than they (or, we) put into it now. I can't blame a teacher for not being able to give 20-40 (is that right?) students per class their ideal education or anything close to it.

 

I guess I think most people should pull their kids out of ps and homeschool them, but we should continue to fund the public schools as if most children went there. I think public school should be there for people in situations where they really can't homeschool (not just people who say they can't but obviously could if they were willing to make some sacrifices). I think it should be more like food stamps, but everybody gets organic fresh vegetables instead of canned ravioli, and without a stigma attached.

[LG Gone Wild]

I make it my policy not to listen to Bill Maher on anything. It's better for my nerves that way.

 

He's such an anus BUT....BUT...he did tell one of the funniest dirty jokes I've ever heard.

 

PM if you want to "hear" it.

[Danestress]

:001_smile: Do you think the teachers (and Bill Maher) would approve of our solution?

 

I probably have 20 or so teachers in my life, and if any of them disapproves of my solution, none has every indicated that in anyway. Some of the people who have most supported me have been professional teachers.

[Haiku]

However, it seems to me both articles neglected to address what I think the real problem is, the WHOLE public school system. It needs an overhaul and that is going to cost LOTS of money and it would probably continue to cost much more than they (or, we) put into it now.

 

I actually think that public schools could be significantly reformed for far less money than we spend on them now. I think part of the problem is how much money we throw at schools and the amount of fluff we expect for that money. Cut the fluff, focus on the basics, and stop trying to be social workers. Shorten the school day. I think all of these things would save a lot of money and increase student achievement.

 

Tara

[angela in ohio]

The schools worked very hard to convince parents that they (the schools) knew better how to educate and raise kids. Now they are seeing a sad side effect as parents check out completely.

[Just Robyn]

The schools worked very hard to convince parents that they (the schools) knew better how to educate and raise kids. Now they are seeing a sad side effect as parents check out completely.

 

That's a good point. Public school teachers who are against homeschooling often claim it takes a professional to teach children. They may have made parents feel inadequate and unnecessary, at least when it comes to their children's education. One response I get to my decision to homeschool is, "I'm not smart enough to do that." This has come from people who are in no way unintelligent.

[MBM]

Some teachers do make all the difference to a child. For example, the teacher Corla Hawkins (Momma Hawk) was able to turn around the lives of a number of Chicago's homeless children -- squatters -- whose parents were in prison or drugged out. Most of her *kids* were graduated from high school and went on to become productive citizens despite their dismal home environments. Children whose parents are seriously dysfunctional need a different school environment than those coming from caring, stable families.

 

U of Chicago Magazine recently had a short article on this topic that some of you might find worth reading:

 

"A Chicago Study Defines Five Key Factors to Predict Educational Success"

 

http://magazine.uchicago.edu/1004/chicago_journal/book-learning.shtml

 

IMO, there really is no easy, one-size-fits-all answer.

[iquilt]

I know many parents in our church whose children attend ps and with at least one parent working in the ps system. The teachers don't know what curriculum their own kids are using; they only know what they have to teach their students. Most of my friends are absolutely floored by how much I know about what my kids know and what their strengths/weaknesses are as far as academics. They regularly ask me for help in teaching their kids how to catch up on reading or to explain their math (everyday math) homework. I tell them I can't teach everyday math as we have chosen other programs and they are shocked that I would be "allowed" to choose. These are smart families who do not believe they have a choice unless they can afford private school.

[Sara R]

This attitude is so arrogant I can hardly stand it. Parents need a union, seriously.

 

(1) Nobody pays parents to be parents, so you can't fire them. Teachers are paid to be teachers. If they can't do a good job then we shouldn't be paying them.

 

(2) Parents are what they are. Schools should take responsibility for the part of the educational equation that they have control over, what they do with the children while they are at the school. They should not be asserting authority over parents. Parents give authority to schools, not the other way around.

 

(3) This attitude ignores the fact that academically successful children are successful often not because the parents are only doing the basics, but because the parents are going above and beyond, doing the teacher's job: homeschooling, afterschooling, paying for private tutoring. Has anyone noticed the incredible growth in Sylvan and Kumon over the past 10 years? Helping your children be successful goes way beyond feeding them a good breakfast. Of course the schools don't care about the number of parents resorting to private tutoring; they don't ask about it. They just notice the difference in achievement and assume it's because the other parents aren't feeding their children a good breakfast.

 

Of course it's good to help your children with your homework, but academics is not the strength of many parents. I enjoy teaching, but other parents aren't so good at it. Schools should be able to structure their teaching so that all students can be successful, not just students with extensive at-home help.

[Sara R]

In some cases all the money provides a worse education. For example, it used to be that teachers who disagreed with the educational fad of the day could just shut their doors and teach phonics. Now there are educational specialist coach bureaucrats who police the teachers to make sure they are teaching Everyday Math. Ugh. Those specialists ensure that the schools are providing a uniformly awful educational product in their districts...

[KrissiK]

I"m not sure he's talking so much about parents helping out with the kids' academics as he is talking about parents raising their kids to be people. Parents who interact with their child on a regular basis, family meals most of the time, insisting on bedtimes and routines and cleaning up after themselves, learning to respect authority. Parents who have morals and values and pass these on to their children. A teacher is only as good as the raw materials she is given. Children need to come to school ready to learn. I don't blame the teachers for the failure of the ps system. I blame the breakdown of the family and the general moral decay of our country.

[coffeefreak]

In some cases all the money provides a worse education. For example, it used to be that teachers who disagreed with the educational fad of the day could just shut their doors and teach phonics. Now there are educational specialist coach bureaucrats who police the teachers to make sure they are teaching Everyday Math. Ugh. Those specialists ensure that the schools are providing a uniformly awful educational product in their districts...

 

Totally true! And, most of them get paid more than the teachers teaching the kids! That's where a lot of our tax money goes, to the administrators and bureaucrats.

[jazzyfizzle]

:iagree:

 

I like Bill, actually. I disagree with 90% of what he has to say, but I really appreciate his style. All that rambling and offending everyone who might cross the path and he ends it with something I actually agree with:

 

"When there are no books in the house, and there are no parents in the house, you know who raises the kids? That's right, the television. Kids aren't keeping up with their studies; they're keeping up with the Kardashians. We're allowing the television, as babysitter, to turn us into a nation of slutty idiots. By the way, one sign your 9-year-old may be watching too much One Tree Hill: if she has an imaginary friend with benefits."

 

 

I feel about the same. I like him and the fact that he is not afraid to rant about anything he feels is out of order, but sometimes he really irks me- the major ones were the comments about Steve Irwin and the one he made about restless leg syndrome (having the terrible leg pain I endure that very few folks can understand, this sledge hammered my nerves LOL)

and then of course that comment the other night about firing the parents.

 

Then he came out with that book comment and I said :thumbup1:

[Jenny in GA]

I"m not sure he's talking so much about parents helping out with the kids' academics as he is talking about parents raising their kids to be people. Parents who interact with their child on a regular basis, family meals most of the time, insisting on bedtimes and routines and cleaning up after themselves, learning to respect authority. Parents who have morals and values and pass these on to their children. A teacher is only as good as the raw materials she is given. Children need to come to school ready to learn. I don't blame the teachers for the failure of the ps system. I blame the breakdown of the family and the general moral decay of our country.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm surprised the article upset people. It didn't bother me at all.

[mcconnellboys]

Well, I would tend not to care what someone like Maher says about a subject regarding which he knows apparently nothing. The issue with the entire school of Rhode Island teachers being fired has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the teachers are "bad" or "good", if this is the same incident that's been in the news recently.

 

It's about unions that refuse to get out of the way and allow reasonable resolution of problems. This school is trying to obtain funding through a plan that Pres. Obama promoted and they can't implement because the union won't cooperate. I would expect Obama to support what the frustrated school officials felt was their only means of moving forward. As far as I know, they plan to hire back most of those teachers and are merely circumventing union bureaucracy so that they can move forward in an attempt to obtain federal dollars.

 

Since Pres. Obama tends to supports unions, I was wondering if he would stand by the school officials or not. If he has, then I applaud him for it.

 

In many cases of "bad schools", it's not the individuals on the front lines attempting to teach who are the bad guys - that does happen, too - but it's far more likely that the huge network of bureaucrats who are in supervisory positions, buying positions, etc. (the waste money areas of education) and/or the controllers within the unions are the problem. If state departments of education were eliminated, if huge networks of "school officials" were eliminated, and if dollars were sent directly to local schools and co-administered by the schools and community boards, it would go a long, long way toward getting teachers the pay they deserve, the class size everyone deserves, and the materials, supplies, extras, etc. to turn out successful students.

 

No, parents aren't to blame for a system that has long been overblown with waste and corruption. Teachers who just want to be educators aren't to blame, either. The hangers-on who have attached themselves to this industry and created the bureaucracy that is education in the U.S. today are to blame......

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

President Obama did support the superintendent in her initial plan to fire all of the teachers for the unions lack of reasonable co-operation:) I agree as well:)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I"m not sure he's talking so much about parents helping out with the kids' academics as he is talking about parents raising their kids to be people. Parents who interact with their child on a regular basis, family meals most of the time, insisting on bedtimes and routines and cleaning up after themselves, learning to respect authority. Parents who have morals and values and pass these on to their children. A teacher is only as good as the raw materials she is given. Children need to come to school ready to learn. I don't blame the teachers for the failure of the ps system. I blame the breakdown of the family and the general moral decay of our country.

 

I tend to agree with this as well. I think there are many parents who are un-involved with their kids and who do not instill moral values:(

 

It is shocking to me when I hear that parents are surprised when their kids cannot read or do math since I do believe that parents should at the very least periodically check how their kids are doing academically.

 

OTOH, I do think schools and teachers are sometimes part of the problem as well. I have read of too much fuzzy curricula being used:( I have read of too many group projects and dumbed down education and I tend to believe it. I also think that the unions do need to cooperate more. The Rhode Island superintendent was not asking for unreasonable things to improve the school IMHO. I think sometimes unions also have a disregard for the surrounding tax payers who are not getting paid nearly as much as teachers (even as professionals) and suffer through yearly increases in school taxes:(

 

My 2 cents:)

[Aubrey]

I actually think that public schools could be significantly reformed for far less money than we spend on them now. I think part of the problem is how much money we throw at schools and the amount of fluff we expect for that money. Cut the fluff, focus on the basics, and stop trying to be social workers. Shorten the school day. I think all of these things would save a lot of money and increase student achievement.

 

Tara

 

SHORTEN THE SCHOOL DAY! But...then who would keep our kids? :001_huh: :svengo:

[angela in ohio]

SHORTEN THE SCHOOL DAY! But...then who would keep our kids? :001_huh: :svengo:

 

Exactly. As it is, schools are risking kids lives to keep school open in inclement weather so that angry parents don't have to find alternate child care. :glare:

[Haiku]

SHORTEN THE SCHOOL DAY! But...then who would keep our kids? :001_huh: :svengo:

 

I KNOW, right!! ;)

 

Tara

[Mrs Mungo]

Exactly. As it is, schools are risking kids lives to keep school open in inclement weather so that angry parents don't have to find alternate child care. :glare:

 

I don't want them to shorten the school day. There are enough unsupervised kids in my neighborhood as it is. It makes me sad and worried.

[funschooler5]

Teachers? For the most part, nah. But Bill Maher? Quite possibly. He comes off as a hard a$$, but I do think he seriously considers his stance. I think that's why I like him, even though I don't always agree on the journey, he seems capable of seeing all sides of a situation once they are pointed out. I think he'd be a fun fellow to with whom to discuss a lot of issues. I guess that's why he's lasted so long as an entertainer, eventhough he's made some of the most asinine remarks I've ever heard.

 

:iagree:

 

I like him. I don't always agree with him (and yes, he does make some off-the-wall remarks), but sometimes I'm surprised at his views of different opinions. I mean, he's unpredictable. Usually you can tell automatically by someone's politcal stance what they might think about a certain issue, but he's all over the board.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

In some cases all the money provides a worse education. For example, it used to be that teachers who disagreed with the educational fad of the day could just shut their doors and teach phonics. Now there are educational specialist coach bureaucrats who police the teachers to make sure they are teaching Everyday Math. Ugh. Those specialists ensure that the schools are providing a uniformly awful educational product in their districts...

 

:iagree:

I think it is an outrage that the schools are crying poverty:glare: As far as I am concerned I think that many schools are great at wasting money on olympic pools, fuzzy curricula, make-believe jobs, unnecessary technology such as white boards in every classroom, and unnecessary building projects.

 

I think education can be delivered for much less in a better way:)

[angela in ohio]

I don't want them to shorten the school day. There are enough unsupervised kids in my neighborhood as it is. It makes me sad and worried.

 

Yes, in fact schools around here are finding that before and after care are improving the quality of kids' lives. They get tutoring and food and supervision, and many would not get that at home.

[Haiku]

Yes, in fact schools around here are finding that before and after care are improving the quality of kids' lives. They get tutoring and food and supervision, and many would not get that at home.

 

But this, imo, is using schools for something other than their intended purpose. This is where I feel that schools are trying to take on a social work role.

 

I have no problem with schools remaining open and non-profits offering these services, but they are not, imo, the function of schools.

 

Tara