For those of you who've had elem. kids in PS, what's it REALLY like? Good and bad!

[Halcyon]

Okay, so my kids have never been in PS, and I have what I am quite sure are misconceptions. I think there are probably both good and bad things about most public schools, and I'd like to hear from those of you who have had elementary kids in PS and your experiences, both good AND bad.

 

I have an 8 yo sister in 3rd grade in a local gifted PS program; her writing is wonderful, but I have a suspicion that it would be in any case as that's where her talent lies, but her math skills are sub-par. When I saw what she was doing for homework, it was just drills, drills and more drills. Lots of procedural stuff, and she does not think of numbers or math as inherently interesting (again, could be the same way if she were homeschooled). I also have a 7 yo cousin in a local, non-gifted PS, 2nd grade, and her skills are horrible. She can hardly read, can barely add, and has no interest in anything. Again, her home life is awful so my guess is that's where a lot of the culpability lies, although I think the school isn't helping. She finds school boring, and her social studies classes are a joke--jumping from one topic to another without coherence or structure. She also has become much more....well....obnoxious. Again, this could be school or might just be her...

 

Please share your experiences, first hand!

[jentancalann]

Ds 11 went to PS for K and 1st. For the most part it was fine- no learning problems, social problems, etc. However, the K parapro crossed the line when she told the class Santa wasn't real. Not that I minded, I can't stand to lie and was glad that was over with! But that sooo wasn't her place. 1st was fine also. The teacher suggested speech therapy for his R's once the children started making fun of him. It was just little stuff that could have been dealt with had I not decided to bring him home so I could be in charge. I like to be in charge. :D

[Momling]

I think, like every schooling situation (including homeschooling!), there is a lot of variation.

 

Public schools are typically staffed by friendly, caring people who genuinely like children. My complaint (as a parent and an ex-public school teacher) is that with few exceptions, public schooling is very much a one-size-fits-all sort of approach. Sure, there might be some differentiation in reading or math occasionally, but pretty much, a child is led through the school day based on educational standards and philosophies decided by folks who have never met your child.

 

Other than that, I take little issue with public schools and my youngest daughter is thriving in a public kindergarten. She has an awesome teacher and enjoys the activities and learning.

 

As for your cousin, there are surely some kids who are not getting the help they need at school or are at schools where the curriculum is very watered down and there are kids who are not yet fluent readers at 2nd grade regardless of schooling type. But I would say that most 2nd grade public school children are well on their way to reading and are thriving in their schools.

[Night Elf]

Good things for us:

 

* I prefer social studies rather than chronological history. I like how different things are touched briefly. It is a nice broad overview that keeps the material from getting bogged down in monotony , which we've experienced in history we've done at home. I like science taught the same way, different topics covered in a school year rather than a year-long study of one thing.

* The different types of writing assignments were really cool. I am not that creative. The most interesting one was a stand-up book using paper bags. It was round at the base and had dividers standing up so that each cubby was a different piece, i.e. plot, characters, etc.

* The technology in our classrooms is quite impressive. Our county has electronic whiteboards in every classroom and the kids are learning power point starting in 2nd grade. My daughters learned a tremendous amount of technology in school that I think is extremely beneficial to their educations. I can't cover all that at home.

* I like math taught in a group because the children often help each other without thinking about it. I feel it's makes math more interesting to be learning it with other people.

* I also like science taught in a group. Doing experiments with other people is just more fun than growing a bean in a cup by yourself at home. :)

 

 

Bad things:

 

* I don't like the 'king of the hill' mentality from the children vying for the top spots of popularity. I saw that starting in 3rd grade. But I've seen that in homeschool groups as well, so I don't believe it's exclusive to being in school.

* I don't like the Accelerated Reader program. My dd11 received a tremendous amount of pressure to read long chapter books in 2nd grade to boost their classroom score so they would win the end-of-year pizza party. She was one of several in the class who could read at that level. When I brought her home, she refused to read anything longer than a Berenstain Bears story book for several months.

* For the same reason, I don't like the pizza hut reading program either. I don't believe a reward should be given for reading books. I don't like the focus of reading just to earn a prize. We tried that program and Book Adventure online many years ago. The kids raced through books to get the prizes and they often chose the shortest books they could find at the library so they could get points more quickly. The reading slowed down when the prizes were more difficult to attain, and stopped completely when I took away the prizes. It took months to get them to pick up a book on their own just for the pleasure of reading it.

* I don't like the discipline measures in school. Any fights were blamed on both kids rather than trying to figure out exactly what happened. The expectation is that the victim should walk away and find a teacher if any conflict arises. I think that's really difficult for kids. Blaming only one child isn't allowed because the teacher, in our case, believed it encouraged children to be mean and then act innocent.

* I didn't like the math program my daughter was using at school. It was called Everyday Math (I think). It confused my daughter and when she got it, she was confused to see the math in other ways.

* I don't believe children should be away from home for so many hours a day. Do Kindergarteners really need the same amount of time in school as high schoolers? My children would come home exhausted and could only have a short time for just hanging out. There was time for dinner, homework that always included at least 30 mins. of assigned reading, and early to bed. I felt like I never saw my children.

 

I am truly tired of my youngest dd trying school every year only to find out the bad outweighs the good. We aren't doing that anymore. I do prefer homeschooling my children, but there are certain things I really hate that they are missing from school. I'm grateful that I found a group that offers classes for homeschoolers. My dd11 was wilting at home with no outside stimulation. She is taking literature, writing, and science. She just responds so much better to being in a group, even when the group has just a few kids besides herself.

[TXMary2]

Our experience was so upsetting that we only spent 3 1/2 months in the system. Oldest ds was in 9th and in 3 1/2 months - never had homework, his Pre-AP English class was reading "Sign of the Beaver," his Pre-AP World Geography class didn't have a text, his Ipod was stolen from his backpack (granted he shouldn't have taken it to school), his World Geo teacher started out every class talking about the price of oil stocks and the EVIL Bush administration and he also preached regularly about the death penalty and its evil-ness. My son had 99's and 100's in every class - even Algebra when at his previous private school he struggled to keep a B- in Pre-Algebra.

 

Middle ds was in 4th grade and in 3 1/2 months I got called by the school 3 times because he was defending himself to some jerky kids that were picking on him for being the new kid, a fellow student punched the teacher which GREATLY upset my son....the teacher's nose was bleeding from the incident. The offending kid was back in class 2 days later. My son dreaded school every morning and was having stomach aches. On top of all of that, everyday a huge chunk of time was dedicated to the TAKS test. Practice, practice, practice and it was stressing my son out. The curriculum at his private school used some different terminology than the ps was using so he wasn't passing every practice test. Plus he wasn't used to the constant testing. He was upset that they weren't reading books and that the systems were totally different from what he was used to. He ended up with a bunch of canker sores in his mouth and the doctor said they were from stress. One day when I picked him up he got in the car and started crying and said, "Mom, can you just homeschool me like Jordan's mom!" Jordan was a boy in our old neighborhood that was homeschooled. I would have never considered homeschooling if our experience hadn't been so bad.

 

That's our story.

[BridgeTea]

All of my kids were public-schooled until I brought the youngest home at the end of 4th grade a couple years ago. My oldest started K in 1985, and I was able to spend some time in each of my kids' classrooms over the years as my work schedule allowed.

 

My experience:

 

Elementary teachers were dedicated to doing the best job they could, and maintain a loving, nurturing environment. They smiled and stayed positive for the kids, even when the work environment was chaotic or otherwise stressful. They worked hard to be fair to each child, and to spend at least a little time deskside when a child needed help. Time and again, I saw teachers pull cash out of their purses/wallets to pay for basic office supplies or craft materials. I've worked with some very loving, and lovely, teachers!

 

What has changed over the years, though, won't be news to anyone here. Teachers are frustrated by having to concentrate on teaching only the subjects their state tests for that particular year. Recordkeeping and paperwork increases each year, and cuts into teaching time. And what I see as probably the biggest issue is that the teachers deal firsthand with the fallout of every social ill out there. I probably helped more in the reading programs than anywhere else, working one on one with the kids, and today's kids are dealing with a lot of crap they should never have to. My heart hurt when I heard their little stories. They just have so much to say and are eager for any adult to listen, it seems. It wasn't unusual to hear something that I was legally obligated to turn over to the teacher in charge so she could report it.

 

When children are "parented" the way some of them are these days, school is their safe place. But they bring the ugly to school with them, and it plays out and effects everyone around them. School just seems like a difficult place to get any learning done for some kids.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Good things for us:

 

* I prefer social studies rather than chronological history. I like how different things are touched briefly. It is a nice broad overview that keeps the material from getting bogged down in monotony , which we've experienced in history we've done at home. I like science taught the same way, different topics covered in a school year rather than a year-long study of one thing.

* The different types of writing assignments were really cool. I am not that creative. The most interesting one was a stand-up book using paper bags. It was round at the base and had dividers standing up so that each cubby was a different piece, i.e. plot, characters, etc.

* The technology in our classrooms is quite impressive. Our county has electronic whiteboards in every classroom and the kids are learning power point starting in 2nd grade. My daughters learned a tremendous amount of technology in school that I think is extremely beneficial to their educations. I can't cover all that at home.

* I like math taught in a group because the children often help each other without thinking about it. I feel it's makes math more interesting to be learning it with other people.

* I also like science taught in a group. Doing experiments with other people is just more fun than growing a bean in a cup by yourself at home. :)

 

 

 

 

I think all of these things have a tendency to to produce students who are not proficient in the 3 R's and history IMHO. I believe that too many group projects cause students to not master the material IMHO. I believe electronic whiteboards are an unnecessary expense especially when school districts are jacking up taxes every year and have ballooning deficits. Of course, techonology is important, but I am not sure if it is necessary or a good idea in 2nd grade when most kids are still trying to master the basicss and many kids in our country do not. Also, from what I have read many of our students are woefully unprepared for college and are deficient in writing, math, grammar, and reading:( I agree that monotony is not a good thing. OTOH, I believe that a rigorous, classical education that includes technology at appropriate times can be done in such a manner that is not monotonous without the fluff of too many creative projects or group projects IMHO. Don't get me wrong. I like art and music and it should be included in the mix, but I do not think a crafty project needs to be done for every lesson since it may take away from actual learning time and content.

 

 

My 2 cents:) Please know that I am not trying to flame you at all. I just have a difference of opinion. I just find education reform and the state of education to be very important to me:)

Edited March 14, 2010 by priscilla
spelling

[melmichigan]

My oldest DD still attends PS for electives and services. We have the option right now of dual enrollment for core subjects, the problem being that they are stuck on chronologic age so we opt not to go that route right now. She enjoys music, they are learning the recorder, and art, because they do things I cannot. For us the deciding factor with her was the lack of academics at her level.

 

My twins were at very different levels but would have started at K regardless. We were already having trouble with my more advanced reader and the school was talking ADHD and meds, so we started homeschooling over that summer and couldn't see putting them in.

 

My DS attends for preK services right now because of a speech delay. We are undecided with him. I doubt he will attend at all but we might consider K because it is 2 1/2 days a week. He is ahead as well and we haven't had a good record when they are ahead.

 

We had wonderful teachers who really did a great job with what they had to work with. It is just not possible to do much differentiation in a class of 28 students with children at all levels. I don't think you can do most of the children justice in that situation whatever their level. We had a public charter that looked very promising with 18-20 students per class with two teachers, but they are now back to the standard 28-30 students in just a few years.

 

I think we are deluding ourselves when it comes to the level of education in our public schools, and it is rarely the result of poor teachers in our area. In our district they will not do any ability grouping and we have no GT classes. There is also much to much emphasis on testing versus learning. To me learning is not regurgitating facts. :lol:

 

The overall attitude of kids in the middle and high school is scary, so I won't even go there right now, although I think that is more a reflection of society than just the school.

Edited March 14, 2010 by melmichigan

[Carrie12345]

I have a smart kid. Well, I have several smart kids ;), but only one has been to ps. 80-90% of the material they covered from k-4th was information he already knew, most of which he had mastered. 5th grade with the public cyber charter was slightly more challenging, since they let him move up in math.

 

For us, the academic "problem" revolved around ds's Asperger's and his difficulty understanding expectations and following multi-step directions. In the earlier grades, his teachers were very good about walking him through these things. In 4th grade, he was left to sink or swim. I helped him float as often as possible.

 

I do believe ds would "survive" ps with his smarts intact, but only because he was born with them and has parents who encourage him - not because of the ps offerings. It's the rest of his mind I would worry about. :glare:

[stephanie78]

However, the K parapro crossed the line when she told the class Santa wasn't real.

 

The lunchroom lady told my 6 year old that santa was a lie this Christmas. For me it ruined Christmas, as I still had older kids who believed.....

[Catherine]

and private, I have to say that public schools here do a better job of differentiation, far better, than private. It's not perfect, by any stretch, but at least they are trying to find something to keep the fast learners engaged, and trying to pull out the slowest learner to offer them more support. Oddly enough, my son's private school class had nearly twice as many children as his public school class. OTOH, I thought the curriculum, taken as a whole, was far better in private than public. One result of this is that public schools are more teacher-dependent. One of my boys had wonderful teachers for both K and second grade, the other, honestly in 6 years didn't have one teacher I loved, or certainly that he loved. He got by, but was not happy and thriving-this I did not see until he left formal schooling.

 

ETA: Socially, I saw little difference between public and private, both were not great at all.

[Joker]

I can only tell you of my dds experience. I pulled my older dd at the end of second grade. She loved writing and we thought she did it very well. I realized the school pushed creative writing and she loved it and excelled. When she was schooling at home and was asked to write a report (we use Rod & Staff) she struggled a lot. We are still having problems but she is progressing well. The math program was terrible and her teacher even admitted it to me. She has done much better at home. She also loves history and she was never given an opportunity to study any history in depth. They actually only had two months out of the entire school year that history was discussed at all.

[Chris in VA]

Mostly it was the social stuff, the time away from home, and the wasted time in the classroom that was the "bad" for dd in 3rd last year. Dd was somewhat advanced, too.

The teacher didn't believe me when I told her what dd was reading, and she refused my offer of higher level books to put in her reading center (she had a point--there really wasn't any room!). The math curriculum was review, but it was good for dd, because she needed to have math "put a different way" so she could really learn to think deeply about it. Science and Social Studies were a joke, always the first things tossed if there was an assembly or other anomaly in the day.

And there was a lot, a LOT, of "fun" stuff--Some of it was good, like Math Night, when we went to the school and played math games. But some of it took place during school time, and was a huge waste--it was part of making school "feel like a family," "be a fun place to learn," all that carp. I'm not saying school shouldn't be fun, but come on, how many carnival days do you need? I also hated the fundraising. They get my taxes. They should learn how to spend them efficiently--I know it's not the teachers' fault, I'm talking more the upper levels of admin outside of the school.

 

Now, for my olders, elementary was a bit different. There was good and bad. Ds20 had an excellent writing curriculum in 4th grade in Texas. But his second grade teacher yelled, punished, totally intimidated my son (he was a "good kid" and she had the "bad kids") and was a totally bad fit for him. It was awful. We pulled him at the end of the year and sent him back to his sweet Montessori school for the next 2 years--which was wonderful. Wonderful. Ds18 was bullied in 3rd grade, and in 2nd grade, he had an overattached teacher who made it a point to go to her class' soccer games and things like that. It was a multiage group, which was interesting and pretty neat, but ds tried to be the next age up--i.e., when he was in 1st, he tried to keep up with the 2nd graders. Too much pressure. She also saw he had two black eyes a month apart and called CPS on us! I'm sorta glad she did; at least she was paying attention, but it didn't set up our relationship very well, and I don't think she really believed that things were ok in our home.

 

Jr. Hi and High School were a different story. Gangs, drugs, sex, group sex/naked makeout parties, etc. Not a pretty picture. Don't get me started.

[....]

We went to one of the best schools in our state, so our experience is probably better than a lot of others...

 

It was fun sometimes - socially. Everybody was nice, there were pictures all over the walls, the classrooms were cute... My kids were OK with going there if I made them.

 

I did have issues...math was horrible - in fact, I don't even think they were teaching math. My son could not read at all going into 1st grade. My daughter (who was also going thru the gifted testing/interviews) was just skating through academics (and she was getting snooty from it too). I was working with her at home with stuff just to challenge her (and show her that she doesn't know everything). They were pulling my son out of Kindergarten to see a specialist every day and he started telling me he didn't want to go to school every day. My daughter was in the nurse's office - for what seemed like every darn day - asking to go home.

 

It wasn't a horrible experience and I really, really liked a couple of the teachers there. I learned a lot about my daughter by talking to one of the older teachers (she knew all kids of stuff about gifted children and I had no clue).

 

I know this sounds horrible, but one of the biggest problems was other people's kids... Some kid on the bus kept trying to get my daughter to touch his you-know-what. My son had some kid threaten to beat the *** out of him if he ever came back to school. My son's best friend ran away from home and they couldn't find him (his dad had died) and he was having obvious emotional problems.

 

I like what we're doing so much better. It's less stress, less driving all over the darn place and we can cover as much material as we want. My kids have just skyrocketed through their schoolwork this year and I can't picture them being able to go back and be happy. And where else are they going to learn Latin? :D

[Night Elf]

My 2 cents:) Please know that I am not trying to flame you at all. I just have a difference of opinion. I just find education reform and the state of education to be very important to me:)

 

Good for you to have such a strong opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree since my opinion is different from your opinion. I'm used to people telling me that I'm not educating my children the 'proper' way. How about I don't teach your kids and you don't teach mine?

 

BTW, it would have been okay to voice your opinion, but using mine as a jumping off point was not nice. Writing a disclaimer that the note isn't a flame is like hitting someone on purpose and apologizing to make it not hurt so bad. Yes, it was a gentle rebuke, but it's still a flame. It's an I-know-better-than-you note because you quoted my personal opinion with the intention of proving why your opinion is right and mine is wrong. :mad: This is a great example of how mean debates get started.

 

And btw, why poke at my personal opinion rather than talking about your personal first-hand experience at having children in the public school system which is what this thread was intended to be?

[jenn1129]

My oldest was in ps through 1st grade. She has learning disabilities and at the time, some defiance issues as well. She had an IEP. This child of mine would decide she didn't want to do any more work and so would put her head on her desk and not look up for 3 HOURS!! When she was in the special ed room, a lot of her work was done by the teacher because my dd didn't want to do it. Eventually, the school tried to bribe her by giving her a candy bar at the end of the day if she would behave. Well, we stopped that as soon as we found out. It was a horrible experience for all of us.

 

My son with downs syndrome was another ps disaster. He could do whatever he wanted and get away with it because he was "special" and they didn't want to make him feel "bad".

 

Needless to say, both children have thrived in homeschool and are excelling way beyond anything the ps system told us to expect. :)

[Melinda in VT]

We have experience with schools in two areas. In the first, I felt like the teachers were doing the best they could with a bad situation. There were many kids who arrived at school not speaking English (and from a variety of home countries and languages) and others who were struggling with home and family issues that led to spotty attendance and poor concentration when they were at school.

 

The math was basic and very slow-paced, but I think it was probably great for instilling the basics in kids who were at or below grade level. (I volunteered once a week, usually during math.)

 

I am very happy with our school here.

 

Pros:

* Great teachers, almost without exception. Even the two weaker teachers are not bad.

* Great instruction in the basics. We use Everyday Math, but the teachers implement the program properly and supplement where needed, and it's working very well, both for my kids and for the school as a whole, as near as I can tell.

* Projects. I'm very happy to have the mold experiments take place at school, thank you very much. And the 5th/6th graders do a month-long in-depth unit on Ancient Greece every other year that they (and I) love.

* Great support for life and learning skills. I like the gradual increase in student responsibility, and the teachers do a great job in helping the kids develop organizational and time-management skills to handle the increase.

* A realistic view of kids and what they are capable of. Stability balls are now standard in the classes starting in 3rd grade. Great for wiggling kids.

* A truly caring school community with great traditions.

 

Cons:

* I'd prefer a chronological history program. (However, it's not hard to provide that for the younger grades using SOTW at home.)

* I'd prefer more individualization for kids capable of doing advanced work. Although the overall performance is high, each of my kids has areas in which they could be challenged more. This is my biggest con that the school could do something about.

* We're a small community, and sometimes the quality of the foreign language instruction leaves something to be desired.

 

The biggest con is that I miss my kids. And there's not much the school can do about that. But this is the best choice for us at this time overall.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Good for you to have such a strong opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree since my opinion is different from your opinion. I'm used to people telling me that I'm not educating my children the 'proper' way. How about I don't teach your kids and you don't teach mine?

 

BTW, it would have been okay to voice your opinion, but using mine as a jumping off point was not nice. Writing a disclaimer that the note isn't a flame is like hitting someone on purpose and apologizing to make it not hurt so bad. Yes, it was a gentle rebuke, but it's still a flame. It's an I-know-better-than-you note because you quoted my personal opinion with the intention of proving why your opinion is right and mine is wrong. :mad: This is a great example of how mean debates get started.

 

And btw, why poke at my personal opinion rather than talking about your personal first-hand experience at having children in the public school system which is what this thread was intended to be?

 

I am sorry for my strong opinion. I am constantly reading articles that mention the same sort of things you mentioned as being potential pitfalls in a big way. I think everything you mentioned can be great as well and used in an appropriate way, but I do worry that many schools do not use these things appropriately. It is disconcerting when you look at the NAEP results that show only about 30 something percent of students are proficient in math and reading in state after state and school district after school district:(

 

As far as the quote, I agree I do have to be careful with that since it can be interpreted as an attack rather than a debate of ideas (which was my intent).

 

I am sorry:blushing:

[Ginevra]

For the same reason, I don't like the pizza hut reading program either. I don't believe a reward should be given for reading books. I don't like the focus of reading just to earn a prize. We tried that program and Book Adventure online many years ago. The kids raced through books to get the prizes and they often chose the shortest books they could find at the library so they could get points more quickly. The reading slowed down when the prizes were more difficult to attain, and stopped completely when I took away the prizes.

 

I feel the same way about reading incentive programs. For several years, we had them in our homeschool co-op as well. I remember when my brother was little, he was in an incentive program at the library. He could read several grade levels ahead of his age level, but he chose a bunch of dinky one-word-on-a-page books so he could get the prize. :glare: My mom was so proud of him and would brag to everyone in earshot how he read 500 books and was in first place at the library. I thought it was :ack2: He could read The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe, but instead he was zipping through "baby" books.

[Halcyon]

I feel the same way about reading incentive programs. For several years, we had them in our homeschool co-op as well. I remember when my brother was little, he was in an incentive program at the library. He could read several grade levels ahead of his age level, but he chose a bunch of dinky one-word-on-a-page books so he could get the prize. :glare: My mom was so proud of him and would brag to everyone in earshot how he read 500 books and was in first place at the library. I thought it was :ack2: He could read The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe, but instead he was zipping through "baby" books.

 

ITA. Alfie Kohn has a wonderful section on this very sort of thing in his book Punished by Rewards. Very enlightening.

[bkpan]

In our experience, it TOTALLY depends on the school.

 

When we lived in NV, we had 4 of our dc, 4th, 2nd and 2 Kers at the time, attend for one year. This school required uniforms, had EXCELLENT teachers, and great academic results. All of the dc had some form of homework, were challenged, but remained at the top of their classes. Involved teachers with not just academics, but with character issues as well. If we had remained there, it would have been difficult to remain committed to homeschooling with such an excellent school right around the corner.

 

THEN, a move to middle TN. This spring became difficult for a number of reasons, so I decided to try the local public school for 2 of my dc, 5th and 3rd grade. This school is where the negative stereotypes come from. It is a Title One school (so many of the children speak English as a second language), so therefore they do not assign ANY homework. When I asked why, I was told that many of the children do not have enough parental support at home to expect hw to be completed. The admin seems fine and the children seem nice enough, but the teachers :001_huh:? I already know that my 5th grader's teacher had an alcoholic father, a stepmom that didn't care about her, and a sister that is on drugs with children she can't care for :glare: Now what kind of teacher thinks that this is OK info to share with her 10yo class??? :ohmy: Oh, and my ds informs me that she has cried about 4x in the 3wks that he has been attending there. Both of my dc get mostly perfect papers as this is all review for them.

 

So, all of this to say. I have found that you really can't know until you visit and experience YOUR local public school. It really can be THAT different.

 

HTH

 

Kim

[MariannNOVA]

I haven't had tinme to read the other replies so apologies for repeating anything that may have already appeared.

 

Twins went for the final four months of first grade -- and granted, every single school and situation is different and I am not saying that this is how it is in every ps.

 

We lived in a school 'triangle' that folks would kill for -- I did not buy into that and I certainly don't now having experienced the school. We have since moved and are in a different 'triangle' that is supposed to be even better than the previous one - :glare: -- don't really care, for us it only applies to property values anyway.

 

The twins NEVER had a stitch of homework, never.any.honework. They had spelling tests, and granted they are both excellent spellers, but they never even looked at the words and they always received 100%. The math was decidely much easier than the Singapore we had been doing at home. The reading......don't even get me started. DS was a late reader - mostly do to his resistance to SIT AND READ! When I went for a parent teacher conference, his teacher told me he was one of the BEST readers in the class :001_huh:. Really? I asked. I then responded that when I enrolled him in the school, he couldn't even read his name, and now 6 short weeks later, he was the best reader in the class. WOW!

 

PS was for us (and I knew this going in) a place to put the twins for four months while I spent my time running DD27 from doctor to doctor and treatment to treatment for her chronic lyme disease -- it was what I had to do at the time.

 

They completed first grade, and they knew we would spend the summer finishing our homeschool year as they were going to private classical Christian school for second grade -- and that was exactly what we did.

 

If you were to ask either one of them if they want to return to PS, they would say no. DS was so disappointed by the lack of respect that kids had for each other AND for their teachers. He hated the fact (in his words) that no one seemed to care about anyone. He is a sociable, bright, kind little boy -- he hated it. DD liked it only because she found herself in a classroom with the little girls who had been her best buddies in pre-school so for her it was one big social time.

[lynn]

We've had good school experiences. I have really liked all the teachers my children have had. The teachers I have had experienced in our ps systems have been good for my kids, recognized their strengths and weaknesses and challenged them in areas they needed to be challenged. There are a few things I did not agree with but you will find that in all situations. I think the biggest thing that bothers me is the lack of outdoor play time the kids have. When I was in school you were outside until the bell rang in the morning, you had regular recess and time after lunch to be outside and be a kid. Now it's come in, sit down, and don't talk, in my opinion if kids had more time to be running around and being kids they would have more attentive kids and less problems.

Edited March 14, 2010 by lynn

[Mejane]

My daughter attended through fourth grade and had four lovely teachers and one horrific, it's-time-to-retire-no-you-really-should-go-now teacher.

 

Being bright, she was often bored. Many of the activities were mindless time-fillers. I found myself teaching her at home if there was something she didn't get (me: "Did you ask Mrs. _?" she: "Yes, but she said she didn't have time to help me." Whaaa...?)

 

I disliked the competitive atmosphere - whose kids were in PACE, whose kids made travel soccer, whose birthday parties were bigger, etc.

 

Reading, which I consider uber-important, was not stressed. The school spent months out of the year doing nothing but preparing the kids for the state mastery test.

 

I didn't like the labelling I saw going on - who was smart, who was a trouble-maker, who had "problems," who couldn't do math... I watched these labels follow these kids all through elementary school, whether or not they still applied.

 

The last straw was when my daughter was assigned a notoriously boring teacher for fifth grade. I knew he would kill any love she had left for learning. We began homeschooling, and we haven't looked back since.

[Bee]

Academically, school doesn't measure up to homeschool. Even dh, who was always complaining that I wasn't pushing the children hard enough, says hsing is far better.

Dd loves school because the children often work in groups. There is time for socialization and if she doesn't know the answer, someone else will do the work to come up with the answer. She already knows who the "smart kids" are.Younger dd thrives on group interactions (making school a plus for her.).

Art and music are great. At the same time there is time spent on class projects that, at home, we wouldn't consider part of "school time."

The teachers all seem very nice. In fact, every time I've been in the school nearly everyone, children and adults, seems happy to be there. This is elementary school though. I suspect it's different in the high school.

If you, as a parent, don't like a particular program the school uses, it's too bad. They like it and use it and you are just expected to deal with it.

[tex-mex]

I think, like every schooling situation (including homeschooling!), there is a lot of variation.

 

Public schools are typically staffed by friendly, caring people who genuinely like children. My complaint (as a parent and an ex-public school teacher) is that with few exceptions, public schooling is very much a one-size-fits-all sort of approach. Sure, there might be some differentiation in reading or math occasionally, but pretty much, a child is led through the school day based on educational standards and philosophies decided by folks who have never met your child.

 

Other than that, I take little issue with public schools and my youngest daughter is thriving in a public kindergarten. She has an awesome teacher and enjoys the activities and learning.

 

As for your cousin, there are surely some kids who are not getting the help they need at school or are at schools where the curriculum is very watered down and there are kids who are not yet fluent readers at 2nd grade regardless of schooling type. But I would say that most 2nd grade public school children are well on their way to reading and are thriving in their schools.

 

:iagree: I am a former Pre-K-6th grade Schoolteacher for 15+ years. I can honestly tell you that looking at someone's homework or interacting with them really cannot give you a full picture of what is going on in the classroom. Homework (IMO) is really just "busy work" at the primary levels -- for example. I know of many awesome public school teachers who try to do their best despite all of the bureaucratic snags and pressure to keep scores high. And I agree with the above poster who said public school is really teaching to the "average" child (no way to teach the at risk LD or gifted students) using methods and benchmarks decided by administrative edu-gurus at state levels. Now, the beauty of homeschooling is you don't have this -- and your day can flow together a la "unit" teaching or whatever philosophy. :D

 

BTW -- son was in public school for K & 1st grades. Great staff and wonderful memories! Then we sent him to a top private school for 2nd & 3rd grades. Loved it. He was in a coma due to a rare liver disease in 3rd grade -- after this scenario, his immune system left him susceptible to illness at school. This is why we homeschool. I miss public and private schools. But am enjoying this journey in our life!

Edited March 15, 2010 by tex-mex

[cougarmom4]

In random order, the things I *love* about our public charter school:

--Curriculum (Saxon math, Shurley English, Core Knowledge)

--Orchestra, Band, Choir starting in 5th grade

--General Music class-teaching theory, note reading, singing, recorders

--Art-fabulous art teacher with real instruction in art and art history that relates to each grade's history subjects (no tp tubes involved)

--Classroom teacher doesn't have to teach PE, library, computers, art & music--there are specialty teachers for all of this (most public schools around here have the classroom teacher doing it...so it doesn't get done nearly as well!)

--Leveled learning for math, spelling, and reading--this means each student is assessed to determine their level & then placed in small groups for instruction. Math is taught at the same time for all levels, all students rotate around to various teachers to take the appropriate class (based on level & pacing within that level)

--They do computerized assessments in math, language arts, science, and reading four times a year. They use these scores to determine strengths & weaknesses of individual students and then base instruction on this. They give a lexile range of reading level for each student and then assign reading books from that range.

--healthy school lunches

--two or three recesses per day

--Spelling Bee, Geography Bee, Science Fair

--Several school-wide events that are fabulous family events (Core Knowledge Fair...each grade has displays & activities to share what they've been learning in history/science) (Science Exploration Night...a local university sets up displays within classrooms & you go around learning about magnets, weather--hands on exploration) (Art Festival...student work on display, local artists present & working on their art, opportunity to create a few works of art yourself, etc)

--Field trips to worthwhile locations related to history/science topics

--After-school activities--always a variety of things offered at reasonable prices (karate, fencing, science club, arts & crafts, guitar, lego robotics, etc)

--School uniforms

--School emphasis on character education

--guest speakers & assemblies (we've had Jim Weiss, a well-known character education dude (can't remember his name, so maybe not so well-known!), our state governor, local university students, professional musicians, ...)

--parent involvement is encouraged (even required!)

--homework load is just right...math assignment most days, expectation to read for at least x amt of time, spelling practice, occasional projects/reports

--being a member of a community...smaller school, so we know each other, teachers know siblings of students, etc. There is a great sense of belonging...it is a focus of the administration

--they sing the Star Spangled Banner & say the Pledge every morning

--Teachers are awesome (well, most of them...) and parents can request to have or NOT have certain ones (doesn't always work out, but they listen & do try to place your child with the teacher you request--esp when your reasons are more than social!)

--Great administration--parents are involved and serve on board, principal works well with parents--listens to concerns, makes changes. Parents are involved with curriculum selection & implementation

--Great families...one of the complaints many people have about charter schools is that they tend to only attract families with involved parents (because you are required to 'put in the time')--but what it means is that you have a greater percentage of families who really care about education and are fully invested in it!

 

Okay...I think that's a pretty good list of positive things I love about our public school. Is it perfect? Nope. Are there things I'd love to see changed? Sure. I don't love the writing instruction at the school--some teachers are better than others, but I would love to see a better approach including copywork, dictation, narration, essays rather than so much creative writing and journaling. I do wish they had a better plan/program for gifted students--again, some teachers differentiate better than others, so you just have to get the right teacher and it works out okay. And I very much dislike having to keep reading logs for how many minutes my kids have to read each day.

 

Anyhow, in a nutshell...my kids love their days at school. They have happy, kind teachers who are trying to do their best to meet their needs. They have lots of friends and enjoy being with other kids during the day. They love recess and lunch. They are learning a lot of exciting things about Greece and Astronomy. Of course, there are sometimes kids who aren't very nice, there are occasionally grumpy substitute teachers, and sometimes the lunch tastes terrible.

[lakotajm]

I had wanted to homeschool even when my oldest daughter was a baby, because of the bad experiences I had had in ps. It actually had nothing to do with religion, at first, as I only became a "searcher" when she was about 2. I could not homeschool because I was single. It made me incredibly nervous, as she got about 4 yo. Luckily, I had started a great job and managed to get her into a well-respected, small Lutheran school. She loved it there, so did I. Terrifying then, that at the same time I was about to be laid off (grant job whose grant renewal was not gonna happen), the school lost the support of their church's board and was slated for closure the next year! AAAGH!! The ps district we lived in had just consolidated all kindergarteners to one school (complete with busing issues). We visited and I just left, shaking my head. The school managed to hang on for one more year, thank goodness.

 

I thought, I gotta get a husband! ; ) I had dated a bit. My mom and now-FIL luckily conspired and got my dh and I together when dd was 6. So, the fall after we married, I began hsing her for first grade. The rumors about deschooling we not bad enough! The truth was ugly. She was defiant-"You're not my teacher" and refused to work, sometimes. But I persevered and the second semester was much better. I miraculously taught her to read. Then couldn't get her to stop. She was reading chapter books before the year was out! But hs was hard. I had a baby and then got pregnant again. So I panicked and enrolled her in the local (different district) ps for 2nd.

 

She had to be tested going in. She tested at 2nd sem. 4th grade level in reading and 2nd grade in math. They told me they would see how she did and then possibly advance her because she would get bored easily. Well, they never did. And yes, she got bored. He 2nd grade teacher was fairly nice, at least. But yes, they had mostly busy work. And dd liked it for the socialization. 3rd grade we loved her teacher! But the socialization was starting to be a problem. Kids were teaching her social skills I'd rather they didn't! And, though her reading skills continued to be far above everyone else's but a boy we went to church with, they never did anything about that. The reading programs-too competitive and, yes, some kids would just read a baby book, take the computer quiz and reach for the next. I had to keep reminding her of why we read. Same for Book It! etc. and OOOHHH the horrid fundraising!

 

I did like the family reading and math nights and some of the more creative projects. I liked their music teacher and librarian (she rocks!). But I hated the formulaic approach. It was all about "just fill in the blank with the answer" which came straight from the text, which is full of errors, then hand to the teacher who may not grade it right because she has 27 others to grade, etc. By 4th grade, she had a teacher who was woefully undereducated herself. She had terrible grammar, as evidenced by notes sent home. She couldn't grade papers to save her life. She even had us both stumped when she insisted "miles" was not a noun (it turns out it was because the book said it wasn't-and she was too dumb to know the difference.) And it was piles of meaningless homework. Four-squares out the wahzoo. DD began to hate writing because it was like they always had to use a four-square graphic organizer in order to even write a blessed thing!

 

4th also was the year the social issues were at their worst-cliques and kids being mean to different kids-like the one with terrible temper issues (not exactly her fault), who of course, was hated because she was a little mean. She had to be medicated. But I had helped dd befriend her the previous year and helped her remain her friend when no one else would. It really got to dd how awful kids could be to each other.

 

I decided to start hsing all 3 (I had done LHTH for the other two and Montessori materials for pre-K) instead of letting her stay for 5th. She was not happy. They were gonna use the electronic white-boards and computers in 5th. And she still loved to socialize. She liked being the smart one. The easy A's were like a security blanket for her fragile ego. (We have finally defeated that Jabberwocky.)

 

She has finally, this year (7th) gotten into a groove with hs and sees it as superior to ps. So she is my ally in disuading dd6 and dd5 from being envious of her cousins. I no longer have to rush to the bus at 7 in the morning. I no longer have to pack up all kids (regardless of nap/other struggles) at a set time to pick her up. No more graded papers I have to regrade for a teacher who belongs back in 4th grade herself, no popcorn or magazines to buy or hawk, no new words to censor, etc. AHHHH, that's more like it. It just feels more "normal", oddly enough. More real to the true nature of humanness-our true purpose and potential. We read because we thirst for words and the way they expand our mind, not because we hunger for a pizza.

 

Lakota

[applesing]

We sent our eldest child to public school kindergarten. We really wanted to like it; in fact, we moved to our school district because it is known as the very best in our area. It is recognized by our state for its "strong academics," and it's known as being safer than neighboring districts.

 

What we found was that this elementary school was not as academically strong as we had expected. As with many large group situations, the teachers were unable to differentiate the curriculum in order to keep our advanced dd challenged. Also, the teacher did not spend time on things that we felt were important for our kindergartener to practice, such as handwriting. Therefore, my dd's handwriting actually worsened by the end of the year. I realized that the school spent 2 weeks teaching the kids to tell time, and my dd was able to understand the concept better with just 15 minutes of one on one time with me. I also realized that the games my younger dd and I were playing at home with our pattern blocks were much more advanced than what they encouraged the kindergarteners to do at school.

 

There were other things we didn't agree with, too -- philosophical differences, mainly. The unhealthy lunches, the reading contests, the fundraisers, the push to have the children grow up too quickly -- all of these things bothered us.

 

The straw that broke the camel's back, though, was when we realized that the teachers were showing the kids movies on a daily basis. These were not educational films; they were PG films that we wouldn't have even shown our child at home. The movies were sometimes scary, upsetting my dd. The kindergarten teachers, art teacher, music teacher and librarian all showed movies regularly. I kept track of the movies for a few months, and we complained, but the movies still did not completely stop. The teachers were using the television to babysit the kids while they did their paperwork. It was insane to waste my dd's time like this!

 

After learning that the teachers felt that this was appropriate, I realized that I could never trust the school's staff members. Who knows what else was happening in the classrooms that I hadn't heard about!

 

At first, I did not want to homeschool. I thought it would be too difficult and time consuming. But I am so glad that we made this choice. I love homeschooling and love the lifestyle. I am SO glad that we do not have to deal with public school issues any longer! Even on homeschooling's most frustrating days, I would not trade it for anything.

[Laura Corin]

 

The twins NEVER had a stitch of homework, never.any.homework.

 

I had a good primary school (elementary school) education. When I was young, homework was considered unnecessary until senior school (middle school and up). I wouldn't judge a school by whether it gave homework for my young children - I'd be happy if they could teach all they needed during the school day.

 

Laura

[MyFourSons]

It depends on the school and the district. I am a former teacher who has worked in both public and private schools in two different states. The last place we lived in, my kids attended private school. We used to live in ND, and I would have had no problem with my kids attending public school there. Now, we have moved again and I home school because the public schools here are not up to par academically and the private schools are just too expensive.

[Mabelen]

There are no two districts alike, no two schools exactly alike within the district and no two teachers the same within one school and grade, so you should be getting as many different responses as schools and teachers people on this forum have experienced.

 

I have two dds, this is our first year in public school, previously we were in private. My oldest is doing 8th grade, my youngest Kindergarten. We chose the district very carefully, I did a lot of research before we decided on the area. I looked at academics as well as at the social make up of the schools and at the administration. The district is very well run, they manage their money well and use it on where it matters, they really have the students' interests at heart and it transpires all the way down. The teachers feel respected and cared for, the families feel part of the system too. All in all I think we have found as very good fit for our family. What I also know is that no matter how good your school is, it is still a school, not a private tutor or a homeschool and they will never be able to replicate the kind of individualization that a child can have at home. I think this is very important to keep in mind.

 

As far as my oldest's experience in public school, I have to say it has been for the most part positive, and the not so positive part has been due to our being new in this area as we just relocated and didn't know enough about how public school works in the district to make the best of what it has to offer. Basically she is doing very well and is being challenged in all but her Language Arts class where she has a teacher who in my opinion is very disorganized and honestly not very hard working either. The result for my very academically advanced daughter is that she is not feeling challenged in her class. We tried to change her to a different teacher who now we know would have been a great fit for her in terms of level of work and expectations but we asked too late and it would have meant a change of lunch time for my dd, who is not a social butterfly and who had by then bonded with some very nice girls, so we decided to keep her where she was and challenge her at home.

 

My youngest has a wonderful teacher, one of those people who were born to teach, very warm, vey well organized, handles the classroom beautifully. The curriculum is good overall although for reading they have a balanced literacy approach so I am supplementing with phonics at home. I can say that my youngest is definitely thriving there.

[Laura Corin]

It was actually a private school, but the fees were low and the classes large (thirty). The teacher was pleasant but completely overwhelmed. There was one very disruptive child in the class who probably took up one third of her time - I used to volunteer in the class, so I witnessed this. The teacher was pregnant and had a special needs child at home. She refused to test Calvin up to his actual reading level, then when the maternity substitute teacher finally did discover C's reading level (off the top of their charts) the original teacher refused to source appropriate books for him on her return. She was accounted a great teacher but, as I say, she was swamped.

 

The special needs/gifted coordinator privately said that she thought the school would never be a good fit for Calvin.

 

Laura

[lisabees]

All of my kids have been in ps, except for the one I brought home this year.

 

Overall, I have been very pleased with our experience. That is not to say it is perfect, but in our area - a nice suburb of Philadelphia - the teachers are caring and hardworking. Most kids are good kids. I like that my kids meet all kinds and carve their own paths. I have no interest in sheltering my kids from the community. In fact, my desire is that they are an active part of it to make it better. Socially, I love what ps does for my children. Of course, if there were serious problems, I wouldn't hesitate to change their situation.

 

Academically, I am on the fence. I don't like Everyday Math; I don't like that the students aren't taught how to read in any formal way. I don't like that the teachers have to teach to the test (and the teachers don't like it either). But, I afterschool for the things I prioritize. I stay on top of what my kids are/aren't learning. Oh - and I'm a laid back person. I don't need my kids to receive a rigorous education. I'm not convinced it will make them any happier or more productive in society. No flames, please!

 

My 13 year old dyslexic son needed more than what the ps was willing to offer, so I pulled him out. It has been a great experience for me. I see clearly the strengths and weaknesses in both choices. And despite what those who have only done one or the other say, there are benefits to

each!;);););)

Edited March 17, 2010 by lisabees

[tajott]

My oldest went through 6th grade.

#2 went through Octof 5th grade

#3 went through 2nd grade

#4 didn't go

 

There is a HUGE amount of time wasted. Few of the kids even want to be there. If children are obedient and well behaved the often become the teacher's helper. There are a lot of interuptins in a day. Kids who are easily over stimulated go nutso with all the sounds and visual stimulation in a classroom. If it is math time, a child must do math...it doesn't matter if their mind is still on the story they are supposed to write.

 

On the otherhand...

There is art and somebody else has to clean up the mess. There is music. There are enough kids to play kickball or dodgeball.

[delaney]

My 9 yr old DD can't spell at all! Her math skills aren't great, and the whole popularity thing that has been mentioned is the worst. My oldest will go through PS all the way but the girls will come home next year and the 2 youngest will never step foot in that place!

[mnllj7]

I would first have to say what are your beliefs?

 

I have three daughters, my older two who are almost 26 and 27, started in a private school, then in 3rd and 4th grade i took them out and put them in a public school. I would personally say that is probably one if the biggest mistakes i have ever made. my oldest daughter was a honor student from k5 - graduating with her bachelors degree. my middle daughter dropped out at 16 and finally got her diploma in 2009 at 25 years old. By the worlds standards they both have good jobs and are doing well for themselves. However, their values and worldview is totally opposed to what I had taught them at home. The older I got the more my views changed.

 

My youngest daughter who will be 10 yrs old in June, has never seen the insides of a public school. and Will never go to one.

 

I love my two older daughters with all my heart, but the oppose me coming and going on the school thing. Their view is much more geared toward what is going on in the world, instead of what I wanted them to have as separate unto God. The values the teachings in Public school is not that just evolution is a theory, all their books talks about millions of years ago as if it is a fact. That is a belief. and that is not our belief.

 

If it is your belief, then you should be fine. however, if you want to raise your child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, then it is totally opposed to anything God's word has to say about the way we should raise and teach our children.

 

It all boils down to do you want your child to live a secular life style with secular and evolutionary values. Or, do you want your child to have a Christian Worldview with Godly values.

 

I do have people i know that are christians and send their kids to public school. My opinion is i disagree with this. because I have already done it. . Been there and see the results.

 

nancyt.

[Mabelen]

I would first have to say what are your beliefs?

 

I have three daughters, my older two who are almost 26 and 27, started in a private school, then in 3rd and 4th grade i took them out and put them in a public school. I would personally say that is probably one if the biggest mistakes i have ever made. my oldest daughter was a honor student from k5 - graduating with her bachelors degree. my middle daughter dropped out at 16 and finally got her diploma in 2009 at 25 years old. By the worlds standards they both have good jobs and are doing well for themselves. However, their values and worldview is totally opposed to what I had taught them at home. The older I got the more my views changed.

 

My youngest daughter who will be 10 yrs old in June, has never seen the insides of a public school. and Will never go to one.

 

I love my two older daughters with all my heart, but the oppose me coming and going on the school thing. Their view is much more geared toward what is going on in the world, instead of what I wanted them to have as separate unto God. The values the teachings in Public school is not that just evolution is a theory, all their books talks about millions of years ago as if it is a fact. That is a belief. and that is not our belief.

 

If it is your belief, then you should be fine. however, if you want to raise your child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, then it is totally opposed to anything God's word has to say about the way we should raise and teach our children.

 

It all boils down to do you want your child to live a secular life style with secular and evolutionary values. Or, do you want your child to have a Christian Worldview with Godly values.

 

I do have people i know that are christians and send their kids to public school. My opinion is i disagree with this. because I have already done it. . Been there and see the results.

 

nancyt.

 

Of course there are also Christians who are perfectly happy to send their kids to public schools to be taught about evolution because there is no conflict between the teaching of evolution and their Christian faith. Please remember there are true Christian denominations who see no conflict with the teaching of evolution as they see it as a God led process.