Very bright child bored at university

[Laura Corin]

Following on from the discussion about early university, I thought it was worth considering the other side of things: what happens to a young person who enters university at roughly the right age but is bored by the content.

 

A friend has a son who went to university at 17 1/2. He had been a brilliant student all the way through school, despite being accidentally accelerated due to a move between school systems. He got into a very prestigious university due to his excellent exam marks and is now bored. Presumably he would have been able to work at this level a few years ago but now there's no way to skip ahead. As far as I know there is no option available of testing out of courses in the Scottish system. He's stuck and his mother is worried about his continuing commitment.

 

Laura (on her way to bed)

[3littlekeets]

Yikes! Perhaps he is in the wrong major. No matter how bright, there must be a major in which he would be challenged! Or perhaps, he's simply at the wrong University.

[FriedClams]

I think there's a time to deal with being bored, and he's there. Deal with school. Get it done. And use all the free time to feed your passions.

 

Or...

 

Do an [insert brilliant successful person who dropped out of school to make a huge impact on the world] and drop out and find your way. Work. Travel. Explore. Be. And then later, if you want, finish up your degree.

 

I guess the route depends on what his goals and passions are. Does he need the degree or is super-brilliant in a field that a degree isn't needed? Is it a work ethic issue veiled as "boredom" or is he really bored? If it's the former - he needs to learn to work - brilliant or not - and maybe some time in the military or contruction will motivate him. I know lots of brilliant, lazy, disgruntled people who never learned to work and conversely, hard workers who have built their future on sweat.

 

But - IMHO there's nothing wrong with doing college later if that's the best fit for him.

[Laura Corin]

Yikes! Perhaps he is in the wrong major. No matter how bright, there must be a major in which he would be challenged! Or perhaps, he's simply at the wrong University.

 

I would suspect that only Oxford and Cambridge demand higher grades to get in. And he's studying economics.

 

Laura

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Depending on the university, it's time for him to join one of the student clubs.

When I was in Polytechnique, my first year was spent studying, by the time I was in 4th year, and completely bored out of my mind, I was spending 80 hours per week in various university clubs. Once in a while I would show up in class. My work was always handed in in time. I was also the editor of the university newspaper, I was part of the 'party' club (organising the best parties in the city!) I was learning how to be a DJ. I was building the light works for the parties (that's the engineering side of it) I was also head of the computer club. And I was taking photography lessons. I may be forgetting a few things.

 

There's a lot more to university life than just classes. The support I found in those clubs are the only reasons I didn't drop out. They kept me busy *and* they provided a support network for homework, and labs, and all that university work you're supposed to be doing once in a while.

[Laura Corin]

 

I guess the route depends on what his goals and passions are. Does he need the degree or is super-brilliant in a field that a degree isn't needed? Is it a work ethic issue veiled as "boredom" or is he really bored?

 

So I suspect he really does find it easy. He wants to be an economist, so I presume that the degree is necessary.

 

Laura

[kalanamak]

Why would a brilliant mind be bored?

 

I am reminded of my brother, who, to entertain himself while going to law school at Georgetown, taught himself to read Egyptian hieroglyphics.

[Laura Corin]

Depending on the university, it's time for him to join one of the student clubs.

 

 

I think he's just a bit disappointed - he was hoping for intellectual stimulation in the course.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

Why would a brilliant mind be bored?

 

I am reminded of my brother, who, to entertain himself while going to law school at Georgetown, taught himself to read Egyptian hieroglyphics.

 

He's never had a problem occupying himself.

 

Laura

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I can relate to being bored in class... My math skills were usually higher than any of my professors. I was the only one in class that could pinpoint a logic problem. That's why I got out of the classroom and did something else. I did graduate with a GPA of 3.2, enough to qualify for the Masters, so it's feasible. That's the nice side of university work.

[kalanamak]

Welcome to life. One of the articles linked recently talked about these very, very bright kids many years back. No one has ever heard of them, but the ones that were evaluated and not quite bright enough to join the study had many names, like Itzak Perlman. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the old USian rental car ad: "Hertz, we're number two. We try harder."

 

Again, why would a brilliant kid be bored? Put 5 neurons on the notetaking job and let the other 5 billion dream.

[Aubrey]

Again, why would a brilliant kid be bored? Put 5 neurons on the notetaking job and let the other 5 billion dream.

 

Well...imagine sitting in a preschool class for a day or more. Imagine the teacher not treating you like an aide or a fellow teacher but one of the students--iow, there's a limit to what you can do during class, etc. We think "boring college class" when there's at least *something* to be gotten out of it. Or we think beneath us, but working to *teach*--again something to be gotten out of it.

 

To be bored enough, though, that other people know it, you're complaining about it, etc., is more than either of those. It's a kind of deep down frustration that can make you quit or make you crazy. Like sensory deprivation, maybe.

 

Just trying to sit still through something--even if you don't exactly know it but could at least learn it WAY faster--is excruciating. And you *are* more likely to miss something--even if it's just, say, a test date--if you're daydreaming.

 

Some teachers will take it personally if you're not *really* paying attention.

 

To some extent, one can argue for note-taking, doodling, daydreaming, sucking it up. But...sometimes those just aren't enough. Esp if you've spent your whole life doing that already & were hoping that college would finally be challenging. Esp if you *are* interested in learning & *know* that there's plenty you don't know. It's just not being taught or offered or anything.

 

Laura--could your friend's ds talk to someone? Maybe he could get some of his credits thr independent study & at least address the issues of boredom. I know you said that broadly speaking he can't test out, but sometimes there are exceptions that are unique to a school. He should definitely pursue whatever avenues are available. If nothing else, he'll get to know some people & learn some valuable lessons about the system & working for what you want/need to get out of it. :001_smile:

[Barb_]

It is a legitimate question. This is exactly why I advocate knocking out basic core requirements during the high school years if possible. It isn't just a matter of challenging a gifted student during the high school years, but of taking care not to, in a sense, overprepare the student for his or her college years. So when the student becomes an official college student, he isn't required to sit through the more general, basic courses that are often held in stadiums and/or taught by inexperienced grad students.

 

I've mentioned before that my daughter had 58 credits behind her when she started college. She isn't using those credits to shorten her time as an undergrad, but to give her more time to explore areas that interest her on a higer level. She is able to take law courses, ethics courses, math, physics (etc) courses, all at the 300 and 400 levels as a Freshman and Sophomore and still have time to comfortably finish a degree in Biology. Actually, she will have the option to finish a 5-year combo BS/MS degree in 4 years. She has been able to sink her teeth into meaty courses that interest her, but that she has no intention of majoring in. I believe her University experience has been much richer than it would have been otherwise.

 

Barb

Edited March 10, 2010 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[Old Dominion Heather]

I can relate to being bored in class...

 

I can relate as well (not the math part, though!);) . I put up with the hypocrisy and boredom as long as possible and then started challenging the profs on every illogical and asinine statement.

 

I ended up being reprimanded and told to get out of the education program for protesting a grade. Thank heavens one of the profs decided she liked my inability to go along with the status quo or I would have been out on my ear. She went to bat for me.

 

Being bored (for me at least) usually turned into making trouble. Still does, actually.

[Guest]

David Albert, who writes a column for Home Education Magazine, once wrote about his MA at Oxford. He says that the actual classes were the smallest point of the whole experience; it was debate, clubs, sitting up late talking, performing in plays, etc. that formed the most powerful part of his education there.

 

Undergrads here can often petition to take graduate classes; perhaps the economist in the making could do that?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I was bored stiff in college. But there were a few things that got me through it. I was paid to take notes in class for disabled students. Many people paid me on the side for copies of my notes (perfectly legal) because my job required me to take notes in complete sentences so that they were very easily read. I also tutored every single class in my major. That was my studying (outside of actually reading the material on my own and writing my own papers). I had some interesting jobs. I was very involved in campus ministries. What kept me esp. interested in my major was some great internships during my summer breaks.

[Nicole M]

Welcome to life. One of the articles linked recently talked about these very, very bright kids many years back. No one has ever heard of them, but the ones that were evaluated and not quite bright enough to join the study had many names, like Itzak Perlman. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the old USian rental car ad: "Hertz, we're number two. We try harder."

 

Again, why would a brilliant kid be bored? Put 5 neurons on the notetaking job and let the other 5 billion dream.

 

While I sympathize with the guy, and know it's a genuine concern, I completely agree with K. My grandmother used to say, "only boring people are bored." If he can't work out a way to engage himself in class, and if he absolutely can't find anything else of value in the university setting (very hard to imagine), then he needs to move on to plan B.

[LibraryLover]

If none of his classes are challenging, and he cannot take more challenging ones, he needs to do something else (at the same time, perhaps) until he can (he could also try to accelerate & move on). Has he considered doing some theater or music to get out of his comfort zone? What about volunteering /doing a semester or a year abroad where he might feel useful? What about doing volunteer work in the UK? Life is not just about getting A's in uni. It would be a shame for him to totally waste his time. There is so much more he could be doing if he could get outside the box.

Edited March 10, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Stacy in NJ]

If he wants the credentails of the college degree than he needs to satisfy the requirements of the degree. If he wants an education, well, that's another question altogether. An education doesn't necessarily require a degree or even a university.

[JFSinIL]

I am already mentioning to ds how some of his upcoming college course may seem too easy (he has taken AP courses since a freshman in high school) but to stick them out - he is MADE for graduate school, but can't just go there from high school ;-)

 

He is interviewing for Honors track at most colleges to which he has applied (if the college wasn't "honors" enough already).

[RanchGirl]

How frustrating! I would suggest he talk to an advisor and/or someone in the upper echelons of the economics department. Maybe with a little persistence he can make some connections and even if they are not able to help accelerate his classes, he could become a teacher's assistant, help out with some research... whatever. Depending on the environment, I would bake cookies and show up in the office daily offering to help LOL!

 

And if that's not possible, or he's not comfortable being so forward, I would try to start my own research project or advanced studies on the side, or some kind of business or internship... make something happen. If nothing pans out in the economics area, he could do extras that will help him out eventually, like learn a foreign language.

[LittleIzumi]

I went at 17 and was bored too. It's the GEs, at least for me. It's like they think you've forgotten everything in high school and they teach the same stuff over again--at a decently high level university. The only classes that weren't boring for the first year or two were the honors classes, because they actually went wider/deeper/discussion/creativity instead of just more work. I wonder if boredom was why I switched majors four times in the first two years, LOL.

[JenneinCA]

I am sorry this is happening to your friend's child.

 

Sometimes the next level of education is held out as a perfect solution for smart children. They are told in elementary school, that things will be better in middle school and then in middle school they are told that there will be challenge in high school. And in high school they are told that finally there will be people to talk to and new things to learn in college. And then the child gets to college, only to find out that it is still too slow, too repetitive and too much busy work.

 

I don't know if there is a solution, except maybe to talk to the department heads and see if there is a way for him to do an independent project with a mentor. That might be enough to make up for the boredom in the classroom. It might not.

 

The very idea that college is still not fast enough, deep enough or interesting enough is hard for some people to understand. And sometimes the person doesn't want to join clubs or run the newspaper. They want to LEARN SOMETHING!

 

There is a certain amount of slogging through endless amounts of easy work that getting a diploma requires. The young man will need to decide if it is worth the frustration and annoyance to get the diploma.

 

(I am NOT talking about me in this. I found the college I went to plenty hard enough to keep me awake and interested. But there was a young man who lived one floor up from me in the dorms. He was so bored with the freshman classes that he decided to take each of his calculus tests high on a different drug just to make it more interesting. He scored the highest grade in his class on the first test. He did equally well on the second one. I don't think he came back after the winter break. He couldn't deal with the extreme boredom he was faced with and couldn't look at spending the next four years doing more stuff he already knew. I wish he had been able to enter college at a younger age. Maybe that would have made the work more challenging and less likely he would have already done it. Unfortunately, some well meaning people in his life decided that he should be kept with age mates and given the "gift of time". For him that was a disaster.)

 

I wish your young friend the best.

[Rosie_0801]

Can he talk to his lecturers/tutors about modifying assignments? I am not a brilliant student, very average actually, and it nearly drove me insane having to ignore terribly interesting tangents to write on the same dull thing as everyone else. If the lecture notes are up on the net, he could easily skip the lectures. Has he read everything his lecturers have published? I'll bet that'd inspire more interesting conversations without him alienating those who will mark his papers. Uni lecturers seem to spend a lot of their time wanting to smack their own heads against walls because no one understands and/or appreciates half of what they are saying, so they tend to welcome someone willing to have conversations about their favourite topics :)

 

Does he interact with the lecturer? I always sat in the middle at the front and nodded at what I agreed with, and pulled faces at what I didn't. This saved me from being written off as a bum when I failed a linguistics essay (loved the subject, was hopeless at the assignments.) I even managed to convince one lecturer to run a subject he hadn't run in so long that he had to "coerce" the department and fill in a whole lot of paperwork to be allowed to run it. Lecturers and tutors have office hours, the OP's friend should be able to rock up to one of the friendlier types, explain that he's bored, ask for extra reading to discuss (which may or may not be anything to do with the actual subject) and a half hour each week to converse about it.

 

Rosie

[asta]

So I suspect he really does find it easy. He wants to be an economist, so I presume that the degree is necessary.

 

Laura

 

I can tell you first hand that economics can bore one to tears. I lived for my honors courses (which were in the liberal studies section), just to have time to think and do some socratic discussion.

 

As there was NO option to do research in econ at my uni (there rarely is in econ, regardless of whether it is business or social and behavioral), I finally simply gave up and started re-teaching the previous day's lectures in-between classes to struggling students. I had a very different style than the staff profs, so the kids who didn't "get" it, tended to respond to my style.

 

Yeah, the Scottish program is very different, and perhaps this wouldn't work (I was literally doing it IN the lecture hall, in the 20 minutes they gave us between classes). The profs gave me their tacit approval because they saw an improvement in the overall comprehension and scores of the class.

 

At least it quelled the boredom. And convinced me not to go to grad school for economics. :lol::lol:

 

 

a

[TeacherZee]

Laura he should have, if he had top grades, been able to get out of first year classes at least. I went to one of the top Scottish unis and a friend of mine could have gotten out of Geography 1 with her Higher grades. And Economics 1 is a DRAG because it is also taken by non-majors so they have to get everyone up to speed. I had taken Economics in high school and I was bored to tears (didn't get to lectures at all after Christmas, 9am classes and I have never gotten along). I did the bare minimum to pass (Economics wasn't my major but a required course). It is probably to late for him to skip to Econ 2 now (if he is a first year) since the first semester has been and gone. But it is something to think about for your boys. Ask if they can skip.

[Laura Corin]

I can tell you first hand that economics can bore one to tears.

 

So he's definitely fascinated by his subject.

 

Laura

[Pamela H in Texas]

He needs the degree so he has to jump through the hoops.

It's HARD to realize that when you're young though. You

just sat through 13 years of people telling you it'd be more

interesting and challenging and stimulating next year or

in the next school level. Then you get to college, which

isn't mandatory, and just say, "so this is what I was waiting

for?"

 

How many times I wish I had stuck it out or gone just a little

at a time over the years. But I didn't. So I'm sitting here

now trying to "get 'er done."

 

I agree with everyone else. He needs to find a passion,

maybe even a purpose. Find some volunteering to do,

join a club, get a job, take classes of interest, learn

to keep house or cook, SOMETHING. And jump through

the hoops.

[Laura Corin]

Laura he should have, if he had top grades, been able to get out of first year classes at least. I went to one of the top Scottish unis and a friend of mine could have gotten out of Geography 1 with her Higher grades.

 

I applied to a Scottish university years ago and was told that with my grades I could skip the whole of the first year. However I was studying at university something that I had already studied at school. I suspect that he has spent years reading economics privately but has nothing on paper to document this, so is having to jump through the hoops. I will talk to the mother though about whether they have thought about trying to move him forward. Thanks for the advice.

 

Laura

[freerange]

I I will talk to the mother though about whether they have thought about trying to move him forward. Thanks for the advice.

 

Laura

 

Another option could be for him to have double majors - would he be interested in doing the full stats programme alongside his existing courses, for example?

[Punks in Ontario]

Well, I can relate to first year economics being weell, quite boring. Second year got a bit more exciting. If I remember right, third and fourth year got more challenging. However mathy classes were great for keeping the average up.

[asta]

So he's definitely fascinated by his subject.

 

Laura

 

Oh no, don't get me wrong - the subject itself is fascinating - but the introductory courses are a complete yawn. They are very plug and chug. Once one gets to the higher, specialized coursework, it is quite interesting.

 

If I had one piece of advice to give him, it would be to read economic history and/or agricultural economics in his "boredom" time. These are two subjects that are rarely covered at the undergraduate level, yet are the underpinnings of SO much of economic theory. eg: who the major econ historians were and what was occurring in the world that led them to develop their theorems and how access to food (or lack thereof) stabilizes or destabilizes economies.

 

Fascinating stuff.

 

 

a

[Joyful]

So he's definitely fascinated by his subject.

 

Laura

 

Sounds like one of my friends in college! He found the classes boring, but had to "take" them to satisfy the department requirements. He never went to lectures. He would just borrow my notes one day before exams, skim through them (to see what the professor covered) and ace the exams. My friend spent most of his time in the lab working on his experiments. The lectures that he did sit in on were the ones for his electives.

[mcconnellboys]

I would certainly engage professors to try to get him involved in graduate level research now. Kids do this pretty routinely here these days, so I would think that it's not unheard of there..... He should also be able to take higher level courses instead of intro courses if those are boring for him. One can usually make a deal with the school to allow one to "try" higher level courses one or two at a time and then if one does well in them, more may be allowed.....