How hard are the standardized tests? And did your kids do well?

[Jenny in GA]

My husband has always been, in varying degrees, concerned that our kids are/will be behind academically because they are being homeschooled.

 

Once, at his request, I had an "educational consultant" who had been highly recommended give my oldest daughter an evaluation. The consultant worked with my daughter for close to an hour and then reported that "her academic skills were excellent and she was well within grade level in all areas." (Unfortunately, nothing more specific than that.)

 

At the time, my husband was not too impressed or relieved by that. He said, "Well who knows, maybe this woman just has low standards."

 

Just some backgrond.

 

Anyway ... now my two oldest are in third and first grade, and he is insisting that BOTH of them need to have a standardized test twice every year. That seems like a bit much to me, but yes, the oldest needs to be tested this year anyway, per state law. And okay, wanting the younger one to be tested as well is probably not outrageous.

 

Well, here's my concern ...

 

I feel like it means a lot to him that the test scores are good. If they are poor or lacking, I'm afraid that will confirm his long-term concerns that they would be better off, learning more, and doing better if they were in public school.

 

So I am starting to get nervous about it.

 

Right now I'm planning to do the CAT.

 

I bought a test prep booklet to give to my third grader and am a little dismayed that she is missing several questions. Some of the reading comp and spelling stuff is a little harder than I would have expected.

 

So I'm wondering:

 

1) Do you consider the standardized tests to be hard? Easy? Did it ask weird things, or things you didn't expect, or didn't really cover?

 

2) Did your kids do well on it? What does "well" mean? Getting a hundred percent? Scoring on grade level? (How exactly do they score these things?)

 

3) Are the tests themselves very similar to the test prep books you can buy in the store?

 

4) Would an average student doing exactly on grade level be "expected" to get all questions right? Ninety percent? What I mean is, what raw score would be translated to "doing well" or "grade level" or something like that?

 

5) Is the CAT "harder" or "easier" than ITBS, or all the different tests all pretty similar?

 

5) Any other thoughts or insight?

 

Thanks!

Jenny

[angela in ohio]

Hi Jenny,

 

Having your dc tested once a year seems like a very reasonable request.

 

Whether it asks things you haven't taught will depend on how non-standard your curriclum is. If you are using something with a radically different s&s than the schools, there may be things dc haven't seen.

 

Every test includes some material that is at a higher grade level. Dc are expected to miss these and still make average scores. The raw score that could be translated into "doing grade level" would be 50th. Anything above 50th would mean they are above average. The percentage of questions to get right to be 50th percentile will depend, as it is based on how other students scored on the same section, not on percentile.

[Chris in VA]

I've used the ITBS for 1st and 2nd grade, and given the CAT to my high schooler (it was the same --exact same--test both years, even tho it was meant for 2 different grades...:001_huh:). So, I'm not exactly comparing equally.

 

I do think, however, that the CAT is easier--it was a REALLY easy test for high school.

 

ITBS gave me more information, so I went with that for dd. IT was longer, but the info was still quite simple. She did extremely well. Most of the science (we are science slackers here) was stuff you can get by inference just living in the world and watching Nature and Magic School Bus on occasion. The math was easy, the spelling was easy, the vocab was easy.

 

Just be sure he is not expecting perfection, and knows the tests test BEYOND what a child of that age is typically able to do--so it's NORMAL to get some wrong.

[SquirrellyMama]

I can't give you much help because we haven't tested our kids yet. We will be testing our 3rd grader this year. I do think standardized testing twice a year is a bit much. Once a year is fine.

[Jenny in GA]

Hi Jenny,

 

Having your dc tested once a year seems like a very reasonable request.

 

 

Probably true, but that was not the request. The request was to have them tested twice every year, which I think is a bit much.

 

Jenny

[hillfarm]

I used to test dd. The last one she did was the ITBS for 3rd grade and she got a 99%. However, I don't put too much stock in the test because it also said that she was reading on the level of a sophomore in high school. :w00t:

 

Now, I love my dd tremendously, but she is a bright 3rd grader. There is absolutely NO WAY that she was reading what a 10th grader should have been able to read. (Or they have dumbed things down a whole lot more than I thought.)

 

Make sure your dh understands how much the testing costs, for me about $50 when including postage to ship it back for grading. If the first test of the year shows adequate progress, then I would ask whether he really thinks a second one is necessary.

 

He also needs to keep in mind the scope and sequence issue. That is why we quit testing and went to portfolio review. By dd's 4th grade year, we were very different from ps in terms of history (we were going chronologically and they kind of bounce around) and science (we were following a certain schedule which was different from the ps one), and were even starting to differ in math (our curriculum included more pre algebra and basic geometry than the ps one did and not as much estimation). It wasn't fair to test dd on things we hadn't covered nor was it fair not to test her on what we had. So by that point, the test wasn't a very good fit for us.

 

And you also need to get your head on straight about why you're testing in the first place. I was testing initially to see if I was successful with homeschooling and secondarily to see where we had weaknesses that needed to be addressed in the next year's curriculum. Our ps system sends around a rather stern letter each year warning us that if our students don't get at least the specified minimum grade, then we will not be permitted to homeschool. The first year that really scared me until I turned the page and discovered that the minimum grade was 25%. Good grief! If my dd got below an 80%, I'd be finding out the reason why and immediately remediating!

 

Avoid the Comparison Monster. The comparison thing can really steal the joy of your homeschooling, if you let it. Someone once told me, "comparison is the death of contentment", and they were so right. If your testing grade meets your standard for that particular child, then absolutely DO NOT begin to compare it with the grades of others. Remember that grades are an artificial system to help determine whether a student has mastered the material, not an end in themselves. Some students just don't test well but can demonstrate good mastery in practical situations.

[Perry]

I used to test dd. The last one she did was the ITBS for 3rd grade and she got a 99%. However, I don't put too much stock in the test because it also said that she was reading on the level of a sophomore in high school. :w00t:

 

Now, I love my dd tremendously, but she is a bright 3rd grader. There is absolutely NO WAY that she was reading what a 10th grader should have been able to read. (Or they have dumbed things down a whole lot more than I thought.)

 

Grade equivalents are often misinterpreted. A GE of 10 doesn't mean the child is performing at a 10th grade level. From the ITBS website:

 

Grade Equivalent (GE)

 

The grade equivalent is a number that describes a student's location on an achievement continuum. The continuum is a number line that describes the lowest level of knowledge or skill on one end (lowest numbers) and the highest level of development on the other end (highest numbers). The GE is a decimal number that describes performance in terms of grade level and months. For example, if a sixth-grade student obtains a GE of 8.4 on the Vocabulary test, his score is like the one a typical student finishing the fourth month of eighth grade would likely get on the Vocabulary test. The GE of a given raw score on any test indicates the grade level at which the typical student makes this raw score. The digits to the left of the decimal point represent the grade and those to the right represent the month within that grade.

Grade equivalents are particularly useful and convenient for measuring individual growth from one year to the next and for estimating a student's developmental status in terms of grade level. But GEs have been criticized because they are sometimes misused or are thought to be easily misinterpreted. One point of confusion involves the issue of whether the GE indicates the grade level in which a student should be placed. For example, if a fourth-grade student earns a GE of 6.2 on a fourth-grade reading test, should she be moved to the sixth grade? Obviously the student's developmental level in reading is high relative to her fourth-grade peers, but the test results supply no information about how she would handle the material normally read by students in the early months of sixth grade. Thus, the GE only estimates a student's developmental level; it does not provide a prescription for grade placement. A GE that is much higher or lower than the student's grade level is mainly a sign of exceptional performance.

In sum, all test scores, no matter which type they are or which test they are from, are subject to misinterpretation and misuse. All have limitations or weaknesses that are exaggerated through improper score use. The key is to choose the type of score that will most appropriately allow you to accomplish your purposes for testing. Grade equivalents are particularly suited to estimating a student's developmental status or year-to-year growth. They are particularly ill-suited to identifying a student's standing within a group or to diagnosing areas of relative strength and weakness.

 

IOW, the average 10th grader would have scored the same way as your dd on the reading test. Unfortunately, the average 10th grader doesn't read all that well.

[mchel210]

I would try and find someone to give the SAT. They really break down the scores into categories that might put your husband at ease. I am not sure about the others like Iowa or ITBS. I did give my kids the CAT but I think it was too easy. It didnt put my mind at ease at all! I found that it was too simple! I used it this year for my 8th grader since he needed test scores for High school admission in a magnet program...otherwise I would have done the sat again.

 

My 8 yo answered 80% of the questions on the 8th grade level test! I think that is too simple! Granted...she is smart...but she shouldnt be able to answer them all.

[angela in ohio]

Probably true, but that was not the request. The request was to have them tested twice every year, which I think is a bit much.

 

Jenny

 

I saw that. And I agree with you. My recommendation is that once a year is reasonable. But I don't want to tell you to argue with your dh.

[Parrothead]

Probably true, but that was not the request. The request was to have them tested twice every year, which I think is a bit much.

 

Jenny

The twice a year is kind of silly. I think it is useless and will lead down the NCLB road.

 

I think you should have your dh help choose curriculum so that he knows the kids are working on grade level. And if he wants to know what/how the kids are doing he should teach. Barring that maybe a weekly review on Fridays. If he looks at the spelling, math and other tests maybe he will be more comfortable.

 

ETA: Is your dh involved at all? I really think if he is this concerned he needs to participate actively as much as he can. His participation more than any test scores will show him how well the children are doing academically, socially, and morally.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Parrothead

[EKS]

I have used the ITBS and the PASS.

 

Some of the questions are ridiculously easy and some can be hard or tricky. The social studies and science sections on the ITBS can be a problem if what you covered in those areas isn't what the test writer thought you should cover. This issue usually works itself out in the upper grades, but it can be a problem in the lower grades, especially if a person viewing the scores puts too much stock in them and doesn't understand what was actually on the test.

 

Doing "well" depends on what your goals are. Some would say that scoring at the 50th percentile for the child's grade is doing well (that would be average for grade). Others would say that a homeschooled child who is receiving an academically rigorous education (barring any learning disabilities) should be scoring above the 90th percentile across the board.

 

I've found the test prep books to be of limited use.

 

An average student working on grade level would *not* be expected to get all questions right. On the ITBS, for a 5th grade test, an average student would need to get about 65% right (or so) on the various subtests to be at about the 50th percentile.

 

I agree with the others that testing twice per year would be overkill, if for no other reason than these tests take time away from more worthy academic pursuits. We test once per year.

[AngieW in Texas]

Standardized testing 2x/year is excessive. Schools only do the testing 1x/year. If that's what he's demanding, then you'll probably need to do it just to keep the peace. Just be sure to let him know that NOBODY does it 2x/year. Every school that does standardized testing does it 1x/year.

 

I use the ITBS because it's what I used when I was in elementary school and junior high. I like the amount of information it gives me. Just be sure that you understand what the grade equivalents mean. A grade equivalent of 10.0 on a 3rd grade test doesn't mean that your 3rd grader can do 10th grade work. It means that your 3rd grader performed as well on a test of 3rd grade material as a 10th grader did.

 

For instance, my 6th grader got every single question correct on the vocabulary portion of the ITBS test this year. Her grade equivalent was 13+. That doesn't mean that she has the vocabulary of a high school graduate. It means that she completely mastered all the vocabulary that was on the 6th grade test.

 

The grade equivalents only have meaning within the range of the test and about 0.5 grade outside it. If your dd is taking a 3rd grade test (usually for 3.0-3.9), then grade equivalents from about 2.5-4.5 have meaning. Beyond that, the grade equivalents tell you that your dc is below grade level or above grade level. It doesn't tell you how far below or above.

 

Since your dh is likely to try to use the test scores as ammunition against hsing, you should get a test prep book that is geared towards the particular test you are going to use.

 

You may need to do two different standardized tests if he insists on the 2x/year thing. I think most have restrictions that they can only be used 1x/year.

 

Would he maybe be okay with doing something like the DORA and DOMA assessments for math and reading level 1x/year and then doing a regular standardized test 1x/year?

 

Be sure that he realizes that on a standardized test, 50th percentile is average, not failing. Anything above 50th percentile is above average.

 

You asked how many the child had to get correct in order to have a good score. Here's what I see on my dd's ITBS results:

exactly 50th percentile (absolutely average) for maps&diagrams, she had 16 out of 28 correct for a total of 57% correct

57th percentile for math computation, she had 18 out of 30 correct for a total of 60% correct

Edited February 8, 2010 by AngieW in Texas

[EKS]

Would he maybe be okay with doing something like the DORA and DOMA assessments for math and reading level 1x/year and then doing a regular standardized test 1x/year?

 

This is a good idea.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Your husband is woefully under-educated about standardized testing. There are many, many reasons why testing even once a year is too often, much less 2x/year. I think you need to do some research on testing, what the scores mean, how to use the results, and why standardized testing was invented in the first place. A good article to start you off is this one by Alfie Kohn.

 

Hopefully with a little education under his belt, he'll realize that standardized testing 2x/year (or even 1x/year) isn't in the best interest of your child. HTH!:001_smile:

 

(Former education specialist/standardized test giver :D)

[Jenny in GA]

YI think you need to do some research on testing, what the scores mean, how to use the results, and why standardized testing was invented in the first place. A good article to start you off is this one by Alfie Kohn.

 

 

Experience has taught me that doing something like that would guarantee to start a fight. He would see it as me dismissing and belittling his concerns, and/or coming up with excuses. (ie, "Yeah, the kids aren't learning much, but it's okay; tests are dumb anyway.")

 

Someone asked if DORA and DOMA assessments would work. I don't think so, at least not yet. He was pretty adamant that he "doesn't want some test created for homeschoolers" and that, ideally, they would do the exact same standardized test that schools in our district use.

 

I told him that the cost of twice a year for each kid would be hefty, and he said that was fine: "To me, it's worth a few hundred dollars to make sure their education is going well."

 

I think what it boils down to for him is: He doesn't trust, or believe, or know, that they are doing as well academically as their schooled peers -- or doing as well as they themselves would if they went to school. [We live in a district with very "good schools."]

 

I wouldn't say that he is "against homeschooling." But he is very concerned that they aren't doing "enough" and that they aren't keeping up academically with their schooled peers.

 

I know in the past he's commented many times that he doesn't see how they could be getting as good of an education as they would in schools, because they have the distraction of a little brother in the house, are running errands with me, are going with me to doctor appointments, etc, whereas schooled kids are in school for about seven hours a day, plus homework.

 

If I explain to him that one-on-one learning is different and that a lot time is wasted in school just makes his mad (see above).

 

Someone had asked if he does much of the "teaching" himself. He does not, and I think it is reasonable that he does not. He is away at work for 10 hours a day. I am with the kids for those same 10 hours. To expect him to come home from work and start giving math lessons is a bit much.

 

I am starting to feel discouraged about all this today. I think the main reason is that I don't know if anything will ever make him feel that the kids are doing well academically and learning enough by homeschooling. At first I thought time would make it apparent, but we've been doing this for a few years now, and he's still very concerned.

 

Will good test scores re-assure him? Not sure they will, especially if he wants yet another test six months later.

 

And then what if the test scores are not so good for whatever reason?:glare:

 

Oh, I just had another idea ... Do you imagine having something like the Woodcock-Johnson administered would be a good idea??? How much does something like that cost? And how do I find someone to administer?

[Starr]

Take a look at the PASS tests by Hewitt. They are approved by NY State. Easy to administer and not timed.

[hillfarm]

Jenny. I think some here have come down a bit hard on your dh. If you are a Christian household, then it is his responsibility to know absolutely that you are doing right by your children. He is the head of the household, the CEO. IMO, he would be remiss indeed if he didn't feel the need to have as much concrete proof as possible that this new form of education was producing great results. And also, most guys are number people. They like to have the hard evidence in hand. He loves your dc and wants the very best for them.

 

I think you need to educate him to the fact that while it would be fine to test twice a year, that in both the public schooling and homeschooling communities once a year testing is adequate and customary. It is often done toward the end of the school year to show what has been accomplished that year. That timing also enables the teacher to intervene with "summer school" on any subject that seems to need more work before the next school year begins. I think most of us lose the equivalent of at least 4 to 6 days per year due to miscellaneous situations. Why would losing a similar amount of time in order to reassure your dh be such a hardship if he still needs the security of twice a year testing?

 

IMO, his request indicates concern and uncertainty more than unreasonableness. Talk to him about what other indicators might give him ongoing input on what your dc are studying, how well they are doing, and how that compares with a public school education. And discuss with him whether he would consider an end-of-year test to be adequate, perhaps with an informal review of each student's progress between the two of you at the midpoint of your school year.

[EKS]

Oh, I just had another idea ... Do you imagine having something like the Woodcock-Johnson administered would be a good idea??? How much does something like that cost? And how do I find someone to administer?

 

The WJ-III is the gold standard of achievement testing. I think it would be a great idea to start there.

[angela in ohio]

This will not win me any friends, but...

 

On a homeschool board, full of homeschool moms, you will get much support. We can all say how awful your dh is being and ask, "What does he know?" Well, he knows you IRL, and we don't.

 

Sometimes when dad is concerned about homeschooling, he is just biased against homeschooling.

 

Sometimes when dad is concerned, there is reason. We don't see your dc or your day-to-day life. He does. He may have valid concerns (or he may not.) Either way, they are his dc, too, and he is concerned about them. Have you listened to his concerns (being gone too much, distractions) and acted on them? Not setting aside enough time for school is a common problem homeschoolers face. If he is worreied, you may want to show him that you have a consistent time for school when you are not running errands or away.

 

It is actually not true that kids don't learn much in school. Many homeschoolers like to throw that around, but most kids get hours of instruction each day. One-on-one time is only one component of a good education, and some homeschool kids don't even get as much of that as their ps counterparts. There are some failing schools and there are some students failing, but many children are being educated just fine in public schools. You must believe that, too, or you wouldn't worry about how your dc will measure up to them on a standardized test. Your dh is probably not going to buy this argument because it is more homeschool legend than fact.

 

I think your best move is to comply with his request to standardized test twice a year. Personally, yes, I think it is unreasonable, but I'm not paying for it or raising your dc, so I don't get a say. :001_smile: He will see that you get very similar scores and that twice a year is not necessary at some point. It will not harm your dc to take that tests, unless you stress out about them and infect them with that stress.

 

Many men don't care at all about their dc, let alone how well they are learning. Your dh does, and that is something to be thankful for. :001_smile:

[ElizabethB]

I give my daughter the ITBS test yearly, it's very easy for her. Even math, where she isn't where I would like her to be, she does better than I would have expected.

 

If you teach some phonics and spelling with Webster's speller for a month or two, your children should do very well on the reading and spelling portions...just make sure they know to pay attention to boring stories and answer boring questions! (My daughter did better on the harder, more interesting reading selections than on the more boring stories that were a bit easier. They were all pretty mind-numbing to me, personally, but she did like a few that had animals in them.)

 

Also, maybe you should start tutoring a few students and giving out reading grade level tests and telling your husband what the average scores in your area are--even where we've lived in good school districts, there have still been plenty of poor readers, their ability is just masked to some degree by the fact that sight words make up a large proportion of any running text. So, they appear to be reading fine up to 4th grade or so, but many will have trouble with material beyond that grade level. Most school books are also dumbed down to include a higher percentage of sight words than regular books, so they may be able to read their school books but not a normal book.

[Jenny in GA]

On a homeschool board, full of homeschool moms, you will get much support. We can all say how awful your dh is being and ask, "What does he know?" Well, he knows you IRL, and we don't.

 

 

I just wanted to say: I hope it didn't seem like I was here trying to say what a stupid jerk my husband is, and hoping others would agree with me.

 

That was not at all my intent or desire, or why I was posting.

 

OP

[angela in ohio]

I just wanted to say: I hope it didn't seem like I was here trying to say what a stupid jerk my husband is, and hoping others would agree with me.

 

That was not at all my intent or desire, or why I was posting.

 

OP

 

Your OP didn't AT ALL. That is the way these threads go sometimes, though, and that doesn't really help anyone. :001_smile:

[Laurie4b]

Goodness. Do not start teaching to the test in early elementary school! Neither the CAT nor the ITBS were designed to give specific information on an individual child. Statistically speaking, they are valid only for comparing groups of children to other groups of children (School A to School B or School A 2009 to school A 2010) For individual children, they are only screening tests. (ie if your child scores exceptionally high or low, it would be good to do an individually-administered achievement test.)

 

Find someone who administers the Woodcock-Johnson. You can actually get good grade level results from that test, and it will take about an hour for each kid. Done. Plus, you will also have the test administrator's opinion.

 

My guess is that after a few tests, that your dh will relax.

[joannqn]

Personally, I would find a test that covers only language arts and math. The CAT includes social studies and science. The reason for my recommendation is that sequences on social studies and science vary greatly from curriculum to curriculum.

 

Say, for example, you are testing a 2nd grader. That second grader might bomb the 2nd grade science test, which would upset your husband because it looks like they really aren't covering enough. What he wouldn't know is that they would have aced the 4th and 5th grade science tests because your curriculum covered that material. The material on the 2nd grade test is covered in 4th grade in your curriculum. Because of the differences in sequences, you could get results like this...so, stick with a test that covers the basics in LA and math if you can.

[Marie in Oh]

I think you need to comply. Doing twice a year testing will not hurt your dc. And, I think, by the way it sounds, you sound a bit uncertain if they will do well, so I think it will do you both some good. I would get a test prep book, not necessarily to teach to the test, but to get them used to the type of questions that will be on the test. HOmeschool kids are not used to the format, so I think it would help alot. I always have the kids go though the ITBS Scoring High books a week or two in advance to refresh their memory on how they go. It is a rare child who will get every question right. The tests are designed to stretch advanced kids to see how much the can do. When it is all said and done, you both will probably be much relieved when you get the results. And it will show your dh that you are concerned about his concerns. Very important.

 

This will not win me any friends, but...

 

On a homeschool board, full of homeschool moms, you will get much support. We can all say how awful your dh is being and ask, "What does he know?" Well, he knows you IRL, and we don't.

 

Sometimes when dad is concerned about homeschooling, he is just biased against homeschooling.

 

Sometimes when dad is concerned, there is reason. We don't see your dc or your day-to-day life. He does. He may have valid concerns (or he may not.) Either way, they are his dc, too, and he is concerned about them. Have you listened to his concerns (being gone too much, distractions) and acted on them? Not setting aside enough time for school is a common problem homeschoolers face. If he is worreied, you may want to show him that you have a consistent time for school when you are not running errands or away.

 

It is actually not true that kids don't learn much in school. Many homeschoolers like to throw that around, but most kids get hours of instruction each day. One-on-one time is only one component of a good education, and some homeschool kids don't even get as much of that as their ps counterparts. There are some failing schools and there are some students failing, but many children are being educated just fine in public schools. You must believe that, too, or you wouldn't worry about how your dc will measure up to them on a standardized test. Your dh is probably not going to buy this argument because it is more homeschool legend than fact.

 

I think your best move is to comply with his request to standardized test twice a year. Personally, yes, I think it is unreasonable, but I'm not paying for it or raising your dc, so I don't get a say. :001_smile: He will see that you get very similar scores and that twice a year is not necessary at some point. It will not harm your dc to take that tests, unless you stress out about them and infect them with that stress.

 

Many men don't care at all about their dc, let alone how well they are learning. Your dh does, and that is something to be thankful for. :001_smile:

[Surlygirlie]

I could have written your original post a year ago, 3 years ago and even 5 years ago. My DH has said some similar things yours as well.

 

Initially, I would show him what work the kids were doing and see what he had to say about it. Other times I shared what work my friends' PS kids were doing and slyly pointed out how our kids had done that already (Was I lucky that my kids were ahead? I don't know). Then we moved to a state where testing is required. So I tested my DD in third grade with the IBTS. She did fine. She did better than fine. And still it didn't reassure my DH.

 

Sometimes I think the only thing that will set his mind at ease is if I can create a time machine, send him into the future, show him the two kids having successful lives and then bring him back home. :lol:

 

In all seriousness though, it comes down to my belief that my DH is just never going to be gung-ho about what we are doing 100% because of his own hang-ups. I can't ever test enough, do show and tell enough, make charts and graphs plotting our homeschooling successes enough that will ever truly make him comfortable until HE is willing to let go of his own preconceptions. *shrugs*

 

If you think that is the case in your family, then test--but certainly be prepared that even if your kids do stellar, he will continue to have doubts.

 

I really wish you the best of luck!

[Mommyof4ks]

I don't really see the point in giving the kids test anxiety twice a year, but then you might get lucky and have a child like my dd who loves standardized tests. She is mad that we will not be doing it this year, but hey we will be at Disney when they give it lol.

 

Last year we had her tested using the Stanford Achievement Test (SAT). It includes math, reading, language, science, social studies and for our group Bible (that is optional and up to the group that you test with). She did very well on everything except the math which is exactly what I expected. We used the test basically to confirm what we needed to work on or see if I was missing something that she was behind in. My dh is laid back about testing though, so neither myself nor my daughter were worried about it and we did not do any specific prep other than practicing filling in those little bubbles.:D

[Rosy]

Personally, I would find a test that covers only language arts and math. The CAT includes social studies and science. The reason for my recommendation is that sequences on social studies and science vary greatly from curriculum to curriculum.

 

Say, for example, you are testing a 2nd grader. That second grader might bomb the 2nd grade science test, which would upset your husband because it looks like they really aren't covering enough. What he wouldn't know is that they would have aced the 4th and 5th grade science tests because your curriculum covered that material. The material on the 2nd grade test is covered in 4th grade in your curriculum. Because of the differences in sequences, you could get results like this...so, stick with a test that covers the basics in LA and math if you can.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Testing will not hurt them in any way. My daughter just finished her MAP test for the year, she loves doing it and tests very well. It doesn't change what we do with our schooling, it just shows how one set of "experts" evaluates her progress. I agree with those who say just do it, they're his kids too and if it makes him feel better to see the test, let him see it. If he's like many men, he'll probably forget all about it after you've agreed to it once or twice.

 

I would think, even if they test low, he would let you test again to see if they improve before he would want them put in school. 50th percentile is average, anything above that is above average (just like the height/weight charts at the drs. office.) In the meantime, you might find other ways to expose him to the benefits of homeschooling--get to know other families, particularly ones with older kids that are doing well, ask him if he wants to hear about articles you've read, brag on your kids every chance you get.

[AngieW in Texas]

The WJ-III or WIAT test would be pretty expensive. It will likely run you over $300 for each of the kids. You would need to find an educational psychologist or somebody who does tutoring for a living who has the certifications to be able to administer the test. The thing that's very nice about it is that it will test up to your dc's level, so you get an actual grade level for your child rather than a grade equivalent. Doing that test 2x/year would be cost-prohibitive, but doing it 1x/year and also doing regular standardized test like the ITBS 1x/year should satisfy your dh. Those are regular tests used by public and private schools. They were not designed for hsers.

 

My dyslexic dd has done the WIAT once through a private tutor and has done the WJ-III twice through the local ps as a part of LD testing. She has also done the ITBS a few times, but I've made sure not to put her through the ITBS in the same year that she's done testing with the school. I don't see any need to have her do that much testing.

 

DORA and DOMA were not designed for hsers either. They are used by public school systems. The difference is that those are diagnostic tests rather than standardized. They are also supposed to test up to your child's level. DORA tests reading level and DOMA tests math level. I have never used these tests, but have always heard good things about them.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Doing that test 2x/year would be cost-prohibitive...

 

:iagree: And you would have a hard time finding a professional who would give them that test 2x/year.

[Ginevra]

1) Do you consider the standardized tests to be hard? Easy? Did it ask weird things, or things you didn't expect, or didn't really cover?

 

2) Did your kids do well on it? What does "well" mean? Getting a hundred percent? Scoring on grade level? (How exactly do they score these things?)

 

3) Are the tests themselves very similar to the test prep books you can buy in the store?

 

4) Would an average student doing exactly on grade level be "expected" to get all questions right? Ninety percent? What I mean is, what raw score would be translated to "doing well" or "grade level" or something like that?

 

5) Is the CAT "harder" or "easier" than ITBS, or all the different tests all pretty similar?

 

5) Any other thoughts or insight?

 

My kids took the CAT last year. It was the first standardized test they have ever done (dd 6th grade; ds 3rd); it's not required by my state. There are two versions of the CAT; one includes Social Studies and Science, the other doesn't. I did the one without.

 

My kids did very well on them. It is graded by percentile. So, if your child scored 50, they are exactly in the middle of their peers. Perfectly average, so to speak. In the upper percentiles, they are doing better than average and obviously, less than 50 would mean they are struggling. You get a score for math, one for LA and then an overall score.

 

I did not prepare them ahead of time, but I would if I knew it was going to be very important to dh. I didn't think the questions were especially hard or easy and none caught me off guard. I was most fearful of timing the sections, but they always finished every section with time to spare. We have never done timed drills for any subject and I was afraid they would not be quick enough, but it didn't matter at all.

 

On the HSLDA website, they have a few "quickie" tests that you can administer, with the idea that you do them three or four times a year. It is in the "struggling learners" area of the site, I believe. Maybe your dh would accept that, plus one "big" test at the end of the year? The "quickie" tests have lists, say, of vocabulary words. Have them read each list of ten until they miss I forget the rules exactly, but it might be three words. That is their vocabulary "grade level". There are similar quickie tests for other things.

[Saille]

Oh, I just had another idea ... Do you imagine having something like the Woodcock-Johnson administered would be a good idea??? How much does something like that cost? And how do I find someone to administer?

 

My district had a copy of the WJ, and administered it for free. If you are in NY, then there are county Teacher Centers that share materials. Your district might be able to get the WJ, even if they don't have it. It worked out well for my kids.

[EKS]

The WJ-III or WIAT test would be pretty expensive. It will likely run you over $300 for each of the kids. You would need to find an educational psychologist or somebody who does tutoring for a living who has the certifications to be able to administer the test. The thing that's very nice about it is that it will test up to your dc's level, so you get an actual grade level for your child rather than a grade equivalent. Doing that test 2x/year would be cost-prohibitive, but doing it 1x/year and also doing regular standardized test like the ITBS 1x/year should satisfy your dh. Those are regular tests used by public and private schools. They were not designed for hsers.

 

My dyslexic dd has done the WIAT once through a private tutor and has done the WJ-III twice through the local ps as a part of LD testing. She has also done the ITBS a few times, but I've made sure not to put her through the ITBS in the same year that she's done testing with the school. I don't see any need to have her do that much testing.

 

DORA and DOMA were not designed for hsers either. They are used by public school systems. The difference is that those are diagnostic tests rather than standardized. They are also supposed to test up to your child's level. DORA tests reading level and DOMA tests math level. I have never used these tests, but have always heard good things about them.

 

Yes--I would do the WJ-III once to get a baseline. I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed to use the WJ-III more than once per year. Actually, I'm pretty sure it would be ill advised to use the same level of any achievement test twice in a year. I think the idea of using DORA/DOMA for one test session and a test like the ITBS for the other session makes a lot of sense. In fact, I have done this very thing myself.

[Jenny in GA]

 

I would think, even if they test low, he would let you test again to see if they improve before he would want them put in school.

 

Oh, that's a good point. I hadn't thought of that, but I bet you are right. That makes me a little less nervous.

 

OP

[Oak Knoll Mom]

 

Reflections on education: standardized tests by Susan Wise Bauer

Edited February 9, 2010 by Oak Knoll Mom

[Mrs Mungo]

Anyway ... now my two oldest are in third and first grade, and he is insisting that BOTH of them need to have a standardized test twice every year. That seems like a bit much to me, but yes, the oldest needs to be tested this year anyway, per state law. And okay, wanting the younger one to be tested as well is probably not outrageous.

 

What would be the point of twice a year testing? Once a year should be plenty.

 

I feel like it means a lot to him that the test scores are good. If they are poor or lacking, I'm afraid that will confirm his long-term concerns that they would be better off, learning more, and doing better if they were in public school.

As long as they score in the 50th percentile then they would be scoring exactly average for the public school.

 

Right now I'm planning to do the CAT.

I would recommend doing the ITBS (the Iowa Test of Basic Skills). It gives very specific information, down to "earth science, 5 problems, 5 attempted, 3 corrrect" or "punctuation, 3 questions, 3 attempted, 2 correct."

 

What it showed with my children is exactly what we had studied and what we had not studied. My eldest studied life science in first grade (as per TWTM). She didn't miss any life science questions at all, but she missed a couple of earth science questions. That was okay with me because I knew we had not formally studied earth science at all.

 

I bought a test prep booklet to give to my third grader and am a little dismayed that she is missing several questions. Some of the reading comp and spelling stuff is a little harder than I would have expected.

There are below grade level questions, grade level questions and above grade level questions. Just because she misses some questions doesn't mean she won't test at grade level.

 

1) Do you consider the standardized tests to be hard? Easy? Did it ask weird things, or things you didn't expect, or didn't really cover?

I think some questions that are asked on standardized tests are full of vernacular that is peculiar to the public school system. For example, on the first grade test it asked "which of these is a community worker?" It had a picture of a mail carrier, a waitress and a construction worker. These are all people that work in our community. It's not a question that makes sense outside of the public school vernacular. My eldest chose construction worker because we had studied Rome and she knew about the construction of the Roman roads, that they were paid for by taxes, just as we pay for roads through taxes. It was a perfectly reasoned answer that was wrong.

 

Ultimately, we are intentionally choosing a path that is *different* from the public school. This will result in her knowing tons of information not on a standardized test and maybe not knowing some bits of information that are on a standardized test. I'm okay with that.

 

2) Did your kids do well on it? What does "well" mean? Getting a hundred percent? Scoring on grade level? (How exactly do they score these things?)

My middle dd scores at grade level-around the 50th percentile, that's exactly average and it's fine. She doesn't have the focus to test well, I know this. My other two score very high.

 

3) Are the tests themselves very similar to the test prep books you can buy in the store?

Yes, they are.

 

4) Would an average student doing exactly on grade level be "expected" to get all questions right? Ninety percent? What I mean is, what raw score would be translated to "doing well" or "grade level" or something like that?

The average student is absolutely not expected to get all of the questions right. The scores are determined by averages that students *actually received*, so it's impossible to determine how a raw score would translate.

 

5) Is the CAT "harder" or "easier" than ITBS, or all the different tests all pretty similar?

I think they are pretty similar. The CAT is shorter and seems easier but I think it has more "trick questions."

[Jenny in GA]

What would be the point of twice a year testing? Once a year should be plenty.

 

 

I think his mindset is that, if they're doing poorly, we need to know about it before the end of the year. If we just test them at the end of the school year, and find out that they're not doing well, it will be too late by then.

 

In other words, he wants us/me to stay on top of it.

 

As I'm writing this, I think ... although I can't be positive ... that he is expecting them to be "behind."

 

I wonder if he will still want them tested twice a year if they do, in fact, score well the first time they are tested.

 

Jenny

[Ginevra]

In other words, he wants us/me to stay on top of it.

 

As I'm writing this, I think ... although I can't be positive ... that he is expecting them to be "behind."

 

I wonder if he will still want them tested twice a year if they do, in fact, score well the first time they are tested.

 

This would worry me. I don't know if this is true for your dh, but if this were my dh, I would think he was looking for something to be wrong. Say one child gets a 52 in vocabulary comprehension. Will he say that's not good enough, therefore, homeschooling isn't working? What if they do phenomenally well in Math, but below average in reading?

[Crimson Wife]

Personally, I would find a test that covers only language arts and math. The CAT includes social studies and science. The reason for my recommendation is that sequences on social studies and science vary greatly from curriculum to curriculum.

 

Huh? :confused: My oldest just took the CAT last week and all it had was 3 short Language Arts sections and 2 short math sections. No science or social studies.

[Renee in NC]

Huh? :confused: My oldest just took the CAT last week and all it had was 3 short Language Arts sections and 2 short math sections. No science or social studies.

 

That is the CAT-E. The CAT/5 tests all areas and is a much more comprehensive test.

[Alison in KY]

Jenny, honestly, if I were in your shoes then I'd totally teach for the test:001_smile:.

 

It sounds like you are a dedicated homeschool mom with a dad who could go either way. Actually it sounds a lot like my own husband. They see the good of homeschooling (obviously, since he's went along with you and let you homeschool this far) but they see the benefits of public school (in their eyes, worked great for them, etc) and they want to make sure their kids are prepared for the world.

 

I would pick the simplest test, like the CAT, look over it and make sure you've covered the material that is on there, then give the test. In this case, for your husband, he wants to know if your kids are on level with public school kids, correct? Well, in public school we always did review before taking our standardized tests (teaching to the test). So if they can do it in public school and that's what you will be compared to, then I think you should do the same thing at home....just don't explain all this to your husband.

 

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not asking you to lie to your husband. I have taken one CAT test with my son. I'd had friends tell me how easy it was. Well, quite frankly, my son didn't score so well. I did have to help him through some questions, because he didn't understand on some of them what they were trying to ask for. You know how those standardized tests go....sometimes the right answer isn't really the correct answer. So, my son does this supposedly easy test and he doesn't score so well, while his friends that took the test scored in the 99%. Now, anyone having a conversation with my son would know he's bright, articulate, a kid that knows about things, etc. But sit him down at a table and give him a test and quite simply it didn't show what he was really capable of....which is why the next time I'll go over questions like he'll be asked on the test and prepare him for it...but only if I'm looking to reassure my husband that we are comparable to public school kids.

 

If I were going to do a test to see our week areas then I would handle things totally differently. I would not teach to the test and I'd try a different kind of test. So far all we've done is the CAT test and the PASS test (homeschool friendly). I think I'll do another PASS test in the near future to see if ds has improved in the weaker areas. So far, the tests we've taken have only shown me that my son isn't a very good test taker and that he doesn't know about what we haven't covered yet ;)

 

Hope this helps you.

 

Alison

[kalanamak]

 

He also needs to keep in mind the scope and sequence issue. That is why we quit testing and went to portfolio review. By dd's 4th grade year, we were very different from ps in terms of history (we were going chronologically and they kind of bounce around) and science (we were following a certain schedule which was different from the ps one), and were even starting to differ in math (our curriculum included more pre algebra and basic geometry than the ps one did and not as much estimation). It wasn't fair to test dd on things we hadn't covered nor was it fair not to test her on what we had. So by that point, the test wasn't a very good fit for us.

 

:iagree:I'm finding this as well. Plus, my son is simply used to us working together, at his age, and if he is doing a reading test and comes upon a word like "serum" which he doesn't know, he really stresses and the rest is blown. Am I going to change our whole schooling design just to inure him to "not knowing and moving on" at age 7? No.

10, yes, but at 7 I have other battles to pick.