Why is poetry so important?

[Mynyel]

I can't stand about 99% of poetry out there. Never have and never will. I have a very, very, very difficult time even reading it to my kids let alone discussing it. None of it makes any sense to me. I mean none. And some of he "poems" the call poems sound like something my 7yo could have written.

 

So am I missing something here? Or is there really a good reason to teach poetry?

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[s.z.ichigo]

I'd like to know, too. There are a few poems I like, but I find most of it (anything modern, anyway) to be pretentious drek. In FLL3, for instance, they have an Emily Dickinson poem called "A Slash of Blue" that was just plain awful.

[Chris in VA]

Short answer, not well thought-out:

 

Poetry teaches economy of language and beauty of language. I would encourage you to give it another go--There are some lovely threads about poetry, esp the one where people list their favorites. Maybe you've just been reading the wrong kind! lol

[LibraryLover]

ccAre you American? Some poets are more accessible than others. What about Walt Whitman or Robert Frost?

 

Here is a Frost poem that is very straightforward:

 

 

Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening

 

Whose woods these are I think I know.

His house is in the village though;

He will not see me stopping here

To watch his woods fill up with snow.

My little horse must think it queer

To stop without a farmhouse near

Between the woods and frozen lake

The darkest evening of the year.

 

He gives his harness bells a shake

To ask if there is some mistake.

The only other sound's the sweep

Of easy wind and downy flake.

 

The woods are lovely, dark and deep.

But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep,

And miles to go before I sleep.

 

Here's some Whitman:

 

I Hear America Singing

 

I hear America singing, the varied carols I hear;

Those of mechanics—each one singing his, as it should be, blithe and strong;

The carpenter singing his, as he measures his plank or beam,

The mason singing his, as he makes ready for work, or leaves off work;

The boatman singing what belongs to him in his boat—the deckhand singing on the steamboat deck;

The shoemaker singing as he sits on his bench—

the hatter singing as he stands;

The wood-cutter’s song—

the ploughboy’s, on his way in the morning, or at the noon intermission, or at sundown;

The delicious singing of the mother—or of the young wife at work—or of the girl sewing or washing—

Each singing what belongs to her, and to none else;

day what belongs to the day—

At night, the party of young fellows, robust, friendly,

Singing, with open mouths, their strong melodious songs.

 

 

 

Me again: I guess I am saying, don't try to take giant bites at first.

Edited January 30, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Melinda in VT]

Why is any art form important?

 

Because it has the power to illuminate the human experience or the world we live in. Sometimes it's a confirmation of our own feelings. Other times it's a glimpse into a part of the world we never knew existed.

 

Which poems have you disliked? That might help someone give you a recommendation of a poet whose work you would enjoy.

[Cedarmom]

Because it is beautiful, or funny, or sad, or touches you in some way. I suppose it is like any books, some you will like others love others hate. Maybe you've tried to analyze it too much and you need to just enjoy it? Maybe it would be better if you heard it. There are some great poetry books on cd. I didn't get poetry when Iwas in school, but through homeschooling I have gained some favorites.

[eternalknot]

I can't stand about 99% of poetry out there. Never have and never will. I have a very, very, very difficult time even reading it to my kids let alone discussing it.

 

I have a love/hate with poetry. There are a few lesser- or relative unknown poets that I fancy, but then there are those well-loved and -respected poets whom I just don't really *get* what all of the hoopla and celebration are about! I expose the kids to famous poems and poets for the sake of cultural literacy, but it's not something we actively study academically.

 

I do love music, though, and I think lyrics can be poetic. We spend a significant amount of time studying music, not as part of school but just out of personal interest. We parody famous songs with our own inventive lyrics, and create new beats/rhythym for existing lyrics (putting lyrics from a country song into a waltz tempo, for instance). Maybe this could also serve as a more inspiring or interesting way for you guys to study "poetry" :D.

[WishboneDawn]

I'd reccomend "How to Read and Understand Poetry" from the Teaching Company for both of you.

But here's my go at the issue:

 

1) If you're going to study Western culture and civilization you're handicapped if you turn your back on poetry. Homer, Ovid, large parts of the Bible, Shakespeare...How on earth can you have a decent appreciation or understanding of any of the above and much more if you don't study poetry? I think deciding not to teach it would be comparable to deciding to just skip the Middle Ages or not bother with physics.

 

2) Poetry isn't hard. Rhythm and meter are assigned some fancy-sounding names but it's fairly basic stuff. Different forms are easy to explore and often fun for children to work with. Lots of poetry is very easy to approach (Robert Service, T.S. Elliot's cat poems) and there's no worry about layers or hidden meanings oyu need to search out.

 

3) Poetry is hard. This is where people who intimately understand language and grammar get to play and they get to delight fellow language geeks by turning rules and ideas on their heads. When you finally know enough to see something new and clever in a familiar poem you'd read a dozen times before it's like finally solving an expert sodoku puzzle or confidently cooking a new dish without a recipe.

 

5) Knowing poetry means knowing prose better. Once you recognize meter in poetry you can recognize how other forms of writing come alive. Admire a great speech by Lincoln? Could it be in part because it has a clear meter and rhythm that helps make it thrilling to listen to? Need to find a way to explain a concept to a child? Wouldn't a good metaphor, such a common poetic device, be useful?

 

4) You don't want to pass your dislike on to your kids. You really don't. Not understanding it closes a lot of doors and the worst thing is you don't even know those doors are closed.

 

5) You don't like it. What better reason could there be to challenge yourself and explore it?

 

6) If I said I hated algebra, thought it was pretentious and wondered whether I really had to teach it, what would your answer be.

[MamaBearTeacher]

Poetry does make people better writers. Here are some poetry books that have enlived poetry for us:

A Child's Introduction to Poetry: Listen While You Learn About the Magic Words That Have Moved Mountains, Won Battles, and Made Us Laugh and Cry by Michael Driscoll and Meredith Hamilton

 

Eric Carle's Animals Animals

 

 

R Is for Rhyme: A Poetry Alphabet by Judy Young

[WishboneDawn]

:

 

 

Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening

 

Whose woods these are I think I know.

His house is in the village though;

He will not see me stopping here

To watch his woods fill up with snow.

My little horse must think it queer

To stop without a farmhouse near

Between the woods and frozen lake

The darkest evening of the year.

 

He gives his harness bells a shake

To ask if there is some mistake.

The only other sound's the sweep

Of easy wind and downy flake.

 

The woods are lovely, dark and deep.

But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep,

And miles to go before I sleep.

 

 

 

I think that's a far from simple poem. But that's the great thing about it. You can read it and just appreciate the image but with a little more wondering there are bigger themes that come to mind.

 

For me it will always be tied to a friend who died this past fall. We were in a choir that sang a beautiful arrangment of this and she loved it. We sang it for her memorial service. I tend to wonder if she's the one passing through the woods with the horse or if the woods are hers and I'm the one stopping and reflecting. Anyhow, I'm grateful to Frost for that poem.

[KristenS]

Along with Animals Animals, Eric Carle also compiled Dragons Dragons ... both are fun!

 

I'm not a super fan of all poetry, but there's a lot I do like. Just like music ... you have to hunt for the ones that suit you, and even then you won't like all by a certain person, maybe just a few.

 

But then, I like word play and writing, so poetry is an extension of that.

[hsmom3tn]

To me, reading a poem is just like looking at a painting or listening to a musical composition. It's another way for someone to express his/her feelings, and I think it's great to be able to look at, listen to, or read art and understand the emotion that was put into it. Some people can't tell that from looking at a painting, or listening to music... but might be able to read it in poetry.

 

I found this quote:

 

"...poetry is unlike music, or sculpture, or painting, in that it does not depend upon the physical perfection or sensitiveness of ear, or hand, or eye. It is conceived and fashioned in the silence of the mind itself."

 

I started teaching my kids about poetry this year. I thought that they would resist, but we started with humorous poetry and eased into it. They have really enjoyed it so far. They haven't gotten much out of the previous studies of art and composers, but they are doing better with the poetry. Seeing something "click" in their minds like that makes me so happy, and very proud to be their teacher.

[LibraryLover]

I didn't say 'simple'. :001_smile:

 

Accessible and/or straightforward writing style does not (I mean, EDT lol) equal 'simple'.

 

Good poetry has depth, and I think that is what you're talking about.

 

I think that's a far from simple poem. But that's the great thing about it. You can read it and just appreciate the image but with a little more wondering there are bigger themes that come to mind.

.

Edited January 30, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Sputterduck]

I hate most poetry more than I hate bowling. And I'd rather get my teeth pulled than go bowling. I have found an occasional poem that I actually like, but that is rare.

[athena1277]

I don't like poetry either. The thought of a poetry unit makes my stomach hurt. However, I have avoided letting my dd know this. We have done a little poetry in FLL and the Elson Readers. Just some basic exposure, we'll do more as she gets older. Hopefully she will like it better than I do. I'm hoping she will like Shakespeare better than me also.:D

[AngelBee]

I don't love poetry, but I LOVE music lyrics. :)

 

:grouphug:

[WeeBeaks]

Count me among those who detest poetry. It is not because I didn't have a solid background in it, from good teachers at that. I had years of it in high school, AP classes, dynamic teachers. I still hate it. I understand it when I want to/have to, but I never ever seek out poetry to read.

 

That said, I teach it to my son. He can make his own decision like I did. I probably even go overboard on the exposure to overcome my bias of avoiding it. And so I don't pass on too much dislike in my voice, we do a lot of audio CDs of poetry, poetry to song, etc. The most exciting, enjoyable stuff I can find for his age level is what I look for. I honestly still detest it, even at that level. But he is so-so on it, doesn't seem to hate it or love it so far, so that is good. :D

[WTMindy]

I think that Andrew Pudewa gives a great defense for memorizing poetry in his Linguistics Through Poetry (or whatever the title). He talks about the importance of memorizing being good for the brain. He talks about the importance of students hearing good language when they are surrounded by poor to mediocre language.

 

We have worked our way through most of Pudewa's program over the last few years and one thing I like the best about it, is the common language we speak as a family. If we have a long way to go we'll say, "We have miles to go before we sleep." Or the other day we were on the beach and we quoted Footprints in the Sands of Time.

 

I don't claim to "get" all poetry but I appreciate the things we get out of it when we put effort into it.

Edited January 31, 2010 by WTMindy

[Georgiana Daniels]

I'm not crazy about it either, but I do understand its importance to others. About the only time I get a hankering to dip into poetry is when I watch Dead Poets Society :D

[home4school]

I was just wondering about poetry this morning, when considering MCT Language. I can take it or leave it, but I have two boys who really zone out when I read a poem to them. Even tried The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere during our American Revolution study; they weren't too impressed.

 

Its making me wonder if a LA program that uses poetry as such a building block would be worth it for us.

 

Maybe you have to acquire a taste for it. Maybe Mr. Thompson could make us like it!:tongue_smilie:

 

Don't know...

Kim

[Mynyel]

I hate most poetry more than I hate bowling. And I'd rather get my teeth pulled than go bowling. I have found an occasional poem that I actually like, but that is rare.

 

:iagree: :D

 

I don't like poetry either. The thought of a poetry unit makes my stomach hurt. However, I have avoided letting my dd know this. We have done a little poetry in FLL and the Elson Readers. Just some basic exposure, we'll do more as she gets older. Hopefully she will like it better than I do. I'm hoping she will like Shakespeare better than me also.

 

See now some of Shakespeare I like. Like Hamlet, I like Hamlet. However I have never considered it poetry I considered it a play. I can understand it just my reading it. I don't have to "read between the lines".

 

Count me among those who detest poetry. It is not because I didn't have a solid background in it, from good teachers at that. I had years of it in high school, AP classes, dynamic teachers. I still hate it. I understand it when I want to/have to, but I never ever seek out poetry to read.

 

That said, I teach it to my son. He can make his own decision like I did. I probably even go overboard on the exposure to overcome my bias of avoiding it. And so I don't pass on too much dislike in my voice, we do a lot of audio CDs of poetry, poetry to song, etc. The most exciting, enjoyable stuff I can find for his age level is what I look for. I honestly still detest it, even at that level. But he is so-so on it, doesn't seem to hate it or love it so far, so that is good.

 

I have exposed my kids to it, we have 1 book on poetry, I told my daughter to read and see what she thinks. She read it once and put it down.

 

Perhaps I should qualify what I mean by poetry. I mean that stuff that you have to read, re-read, re-read again, maybe understand maybe not. :confused:You have to really analyze it to know what they are talking about and even then you may not know what they are talking about. :confused::confused:That's what I mean. I read Psalms...love Psalms. I know that is a form of poetry. I love music again another form as well. "Footprints in the Sand" is may favorite all time poem, if indeed it is a poem.

 

I just like to be able to rad something and get it, I don't want flowery fluff around it and have to guess. :glare:

 

If there is poetry in our curriculum I will teach it but I am not going to actively seek it out.:tongue_smilie:

[abbeyej]

I was just wondering about poetry this morning, when considering MCT Language. I can take it or leave it, but I have two boys who really zone out when I read a poem to them. Even tried The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere during our American Revolution study; they weren't too impressed.

 

Its making me wonder if a LA program that uses poetry as such a building block would be worth it for us.

 

Maybe you have to acquire a taste for it. Maybe Mr. Thompson could make us like it!:tongue_smilie:

 

You know, I think it's possible that he could. I think he does a really fantastic job of helping students (and parents!) see how so many elements come together to build good poetry. Listen to these sounds! (Gives some great examples...) Then he introduces specific kinds of ways that sound is used in poetry. Then rhyme scheme (and not in the shallow way most elementary programs talk down to kids and say "see how the second and third lines end in the same sound?"... Then meter... And all the while giving short little bits of larger poems (good poems) that illustrate the things he's discussing. (I don't like that he includes his own poetry in the book. But I just skip that.)

 

I agree with Mindy that Pudewa also gives some great arguments for the value of memorizing poetry. But I think it works best for people who already see some value and delight in good poetry. For those who don't like or "get" poetry, I'd start with MCT.

 

I'm still new to MCT, but I think the poetics element is *the* reason to pick his materials over any number of other LA programs. I do like the way the vocab and the grammar and the writing work together. But what really sets it apart is the poetics. And I believe that the way he presents the material can open up a world of poetry to people who *don't* like poetry even more than for people who already do.

[kokotg]

As someone else mentioned, throwing out poetry means throwing out much of the Bible, Shakespeare, Homer, Milton...and on and on (not that Frost and Yeats and Whitman aren't losses enough). There's really no way to study literature without studying poetry. Our literary history is rooted in poetry.

 

If one of the arguments for studying Latin or advanced math is that they train the mind, that they teach us to think critically, I'd argue that we can say that at least as much for poetry. Every word in a good poem is essential; one has to consider its meaning, its placement, and its sound to understand why it's there. Understanding poetry requires intense, careful, thoughtful reading--attention to the structure, the grammar, the rhythm. Parsing a poem can be a rigorous exercise in critical thinking. I also think that the kind of close reading poetry requires is an excellent skill to apply when reading prose, where sloppy analysis can be gotten away with more easily.

 

I guess I'm always a little mystified when I read poetry bashing on a classical education board; are people seriously questioning the value of Shakespeare and Homer? Or are those somehow not real poetry in some people's minds? Because it is poetry, and to read poetry well one has to, well....learn how to read poetry.

[Impish]

Two words: Shel Silverstein. Seriously. He's got some wonderful, laugh out loud poems.

[Aubrey]

Perhaps I should qualify what I mean by poetry. I mean that stuff that you have to read, re-read, re-read again, maybe understand maybe not. :confused:You have to really analyze it to know what they are talking about and even then you may not know what they are talking about. :confused::confused:That's what I mean. I read Psalms...love Psalms. I know that is a form of poetry. I love music again another form as well. "Footprints in the Sand" is may favorite all time poem, if indeed it is a poem.

 

I just like to be able to read something and get it, I don't want flowery fluff around it and have to guess. :glare:

 

If there is poetry in our curriculum I will teach it but I am not going to actively seek it out.:tongue_smilie:

 

Whew. I understand this much better than your original post, in which I thought you were trying to dig my heart out with a spoon. In the way that you're describing here, I don't think everybody has to like poetry. An *appreciation* of Shakespeare, the Bible, maybe Frost--some range like that--I'd think would be adequate for those who don't have a particular fondness for poetry. Exposure to other stuff combined w/ good teaching is pretty important, I think, because the other stuff IS an acquired taste, usually, but not nec for a full life.

 

But...two poems come to mind that I can't imagine not loving, & they're not straightforward. If you could stand to humor me, I'd be interested to know what you think--partly because...well...there are 2 kinds of lit teachers when it comes to poetry. (Maybe more; 2 that I've encountered, lol.) There are the ones who love flowery, goopy poetry. They're usually the ones who are good at grammar, too, & think it's a little more important than it really is.

 

I won't tell you what kinds of poems these teachers choose, because I don't want to insult anyone--the poems aren't bad, but they're far from my favorites (some I can't stand), & like you, when this was all I knew, I'd have thought I hated poetry. These lit teachers are sort-of like the hist profs who make you memorize dates & never really bring anything to life. They may be passionate & well-read, but they're drier than dirt. The hist teachers, anyway. The lit teachers just come across a little fruity.

 

The other kind of lit teacher is kind-of like the history teacher who can make a period come alive, like a good story. Poetry can be like the...are they called Matryoshka dolls?...there's one that's beautiful, but if you open it, there's another doll inside. Some poems are just one doll; some just 2-3; some are labyrinthian mazes of thought that you can follow as long as it pleases you to do so, like a wonderful conversation w/ a friend.

 

Ok, so here are the two I mentioned--they're not straightforward, & they've got lots of layers of dolls, but *I* think their sound is amazing, their images are amazing, & they can be enjoyed w/out nec having to open them up, but they're so captivating, I think they're fun to think about. I'm curious to know *how* biased I am. :D (I have a lit degree.)

 

anyone lived in a pretty how town

 

anyone lived in a pretty how town

(with up so floating many bells down)

spring summer autumn winter

he sang his didn't he danced his did.

 

Women and men (both little and small)

cared for anyone not at all

they sowed their isn't they reaped their same

sun moon stars rain

 

children guessed (but only a few

and down they forgot as up they grew

autumn winter spring summer)

that noone loved him more by more

 

when by now and tree by leaf

she laughed his joy she cried his grief

bird by snow and stir by still

anyone's any was all to her

 

someones married their everyones

laughed their cryings and did their dance

(sleep wake hope and then)they

said their nevers they slept their dream

 

stars rain sun moon

(and only the snow can begin to explain

how children are apt to forget to remember

with up so floating many bells down)

 

one day anyone died i guess

(and noone stooped to kiss his face)

busy folk buried them side by side

little by little and was by was

 

all by all and deep by deep

and more by more they dream their sleep

noone and anyone earth by april

with by spirit and if by yes.

 

Women and men (both dong and ding)

summer autumn winter spring

reaped their sowing and went their came

sun moon stars rain

 

ee cummings </B>

 

 

The Idea of Order at Key West

 

Wallace Stevens

 

She sang beyond the genius of the sea.

The water never formed to mind or voice,

Like a body wholly body, fluttering

Its empty sleeves; and yet its mimic motion

Made constant cry, caused constantly a cry,

That was not ours although we understood,

Inhuman, of the veritable ocean.

 

The sea was not a mask. No more was she.

The song and water were not medleyed sound

Even if what she sang was what she heard,

Since what she sang was uttered word by word.

It may be that in all her phrases stirred

The grinding water and the gasping wind;

But it was she and not the sea we heard.

For she was the maker of the song she sang.

The ever-hooded, tragic-gestured sea

Was merely a place by which she walked to sing.

Whose spirit is this? we said, because we knew

It was the spirit that we sought and knew

That we should ask this often as she sang.

If it was only the dark voice of the sea

That rose, or even colored by many waves;

If it was only the outer voice of sky

And cloud, of the sunken coral water-walled,

However clear, it would have been deep air,

The heaving speech of air, a summer sound

Repeated in a summer without end

And sound alone. But it was more than that,

More even than her voice, and ours, among

The meaningless plungings of water and the wind,

Theatrical distances, bronze shadows heaped

On high horizons, mountainous atmospheres

Of sky and sea.

It was her voice that made

The sky acutest at its vanishing.

She measured to the hour its solitude.

She was the single artificer of the world

In which she sang. And when she sang, the sea,

Whatever self it had, became the self

That was her song, for she was the maker. Then we,

As we beheld her striding there alone,

Knew that there never was a world for her

Except the one she sang and, singing, made.

Ramon Fernandez, tell me, if you know,

Why, when the singing ended and we turned

Toward the town, tell why the glassy lights,

The lights in the fishing boats at anchor there,

As the night descended, tilting in the air,

Mastered the night and portioned out the sea,

Fixing emblazoned zones and fiery poles,

Arranging, deepening, enchanting night. Oh! Blessed rage for order, pale Ramon,

The maker's rage to order words of the sea,

Words of the fragrant portals, dimly-starred,

And of ourselves and of our origins,

In ghostlier demarcations, keener sounds.

[Aubrey]

Two words: Shel Silverstein. Seriously. He's got some wonderful, laugh out loud poems.

 

:iagree: I didn't like them as a kid, & thought I didn't like poetry because of them, but I'm pretty sure I'm the exception. My kids ADORE these books, & I like them now, too. Mainly because the sound of their laughter & the sight of a couple of kids reading straight thr a book of poetry in one sitting is adorable, but I also have a better sense of humor now. You know, now I can laugh at kid stuff like not taking out the trash. :001_huh:

[kokotg]

Perhaps I should qualify what I mean by poetry. I mean that stuff that you have to read, re-read, re-read again, maybe understand maybe not. :confused:You have to really analyze it to know what they are talking about and even then you may not know what they are talking about. :confused::confused:That's what I mean. I read Psalms...love Psalms. I know that is a form of poetry. I love music again another form as well. "Footprints in the Sand" is may favorite all time poem, if indeed it is a poem.

 

I just like to be able to rad something and get it, I don't want flowery fluff around it and have to guess. :glare:

 

 

 

I missed this part my first time through this thread. I guess I think with any really great literature, poetry or not, reading and reading and reading again IS how you get the most out of it. Or at least reading very carefully. So reading a poem, which demands that you read carefully to get any value out of it at all, is excellent training for reading a longer work, where you could skim the surface and still get the idea, but will have to do much more careful reading to really analyze it. Reading prose really shouldn't be easier than reading poetry; it's a different skill set, but there's certainly plenty of overlap.

[2squared]

I'm not a poetry lover, but I'm trying my best to build an appreciation for it and make it a part of my children's lives. My successes thus far have been IEW's poetry memorization program, Shel Silverstein, Poetry Speaks to Children, and FIAR's unit on Robert Frost's Stopping by Woods poem. Homeschool Share has a poetry unit that looks pretty good as well.

[WishboneDawn]

I didn't say 'simple'. :001_smile:

 

Accessible and/or straightforward writing style does not (I mean, EDT lol) equal 'simple'.

 

Good poetry has depth, and I think that is what you're talking about.

 

D'oh! Know that I just gave myself a smack in the forehead for you! :)

[LibraryLover]

D'oh! Know that I just gave myself a smack in the forehead for you! :)

 

LOL You all are fun. :grouphug:

[Impish]

Another of my favourites...yes, I've been told I have a twisted sense of humour...

The Cremation of Sam McGee

 

by Robert W. Service

 

There are strange things done in the midnight sun By the men who moil for gold;

The Arctic trails have their secret tales

That would make your blood run cold;

The Northern Lights have seen queer sights,

But the queerest they ever did see

Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge I cremated Sam McGee.

 

Now Sam McGee was from Tennessee, where the cotton blooms and blows.

Why he left his home in the South to roam ‘round the Pole, God only knows.

He was always cold, but the land of gold seemed to hold him like a spell;

Though he’d often say in his homely way that “he’d sooner live in hell.”

 

On a Christmas Day we were mushing our way over the Dawson trail.

Talk of your cold! through the parka’s fold it stabbed like a driven nail.

If our eyes we’d close, then the lashes froze till sometimes we couldn’t see;

It wasn’t much fun, but the only one to whimper was Sam McGee.

 

And that very night, as we lay packed tight in our robes beneath the snow,

And the dogs were fed, and the stars o’erhead were dancing heel and toe,

He turned to me, and “Cap,” says he, “I’ll cash in this trip, I guess;

And if I do, I’m asking that you won’t refuse my last request.”

 

Well, he seemed so low that I couldn’t say no; then he says with a sort of moan:

“It’s the cursed cold, and it’s got right hold till I’m chilled clean through to the bone.

Yet ‘taint being dead—it’s my awful dread of the icy grave that pains;

So I want you to swear that, foul or fair, you’ll cremate my last remains.”

 

A pal’s last need is a thing to heed, so I swore I would not fail;

And we started on at the streak of dawn; but God! he looked ghastly pale.

He crouched on the sleigh, and he raved all day of his home in Tennessee;

And before nightfall a corpse was all that was left of Sam McGee.

 

There wasn’t a breath in that land of death, and I hurried, horror-driven,

With a corpse half hid that I couldn’t get rid, because of a promise given;

It was lashed to the sleigh, and it seemed to say: “You may tax your brawn and brains,

But you promised true, and it’s up to you to cremate those last remains.”

 

Now a promise made is a debt unpaid, and the trail has its own stern code.

In the days to come, though my lips were dumb, in my heart how I cursed that load.

In the long, long night, by the lone firelight, while the huskies, round in a ring,

Howled out their woes to the homeless snows—O God! how I loathed the thing.

 

And every day that quiet clay seemed to heavy and heavier grow;

And on I went, though the dogs were spent and the grub was getting low;

The trail was bad, and I felt half mad, but I swore I would not give in;

And I’d often sing to the hateful thing, and it hearkened with a grin.

 

 

Till I came to the marge of Lake Lebarge, and a derelict there lay;

It was jammed in the ice, but I saw in a trice it was called the “Alice May.”

And I looked at it, and I thought a bit, and I looked at my frozen chum;

Then “Here,” said I, with a sudden cry, “is my cre-ma-tor-eum.”

 

Some planks I tore from the cabin floor, and I lit the boiler fire;

Some coal I found that was lying around, and I heaped the fuel higher;

The flames just soared and the furnace roared—such a blaze you seldom see;

 

Then I burrowed a hole in the glowing coal, and I stuffed in Sam McGee.

 

Then I made a hike, for I didn’t like to hear him sizzle so;

And the heavens scowled, and the huskies howled, and the wind began to blow.

It was icy cold, but the hot sweat rolled down my cheeks, and I don’t know why;

And the greasy smoke in an inky cloak went streaking down the sky.

 

I do not know how long in the snow I wrestled with grisly fear;

But the stars came out and they danced about ere again I ventured near;

I was sick with dread, but I bravely said: “I’ll just take a peep inside.

I guess he’s cooked, and it’s time I looked;” . . . then the door I opened wide.

 

 

And there sat Sam, looking cool and calm, in the heart of the furnace roar;

And he wore a smile you could see a mile, and he said: “Please close that door.

It’s fine in here, but I greatly fear you’ll let in the cold and storm—

Since I left Plumtree, down in Tennessee, it’s the first time I’ve been warm.”

 

There are strange things done in the midnight sun

By the men who moil for gold;

The Arctic trails have their secret tales

That would make your blood run cold;

The Northern Lights have seen queer sights,

But the queerest they ever did see

Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge

I cremated Sam McGee.

 

—From Later Collected Verse; by Robert Service;

Dodd, Mead & Company; New York; 1970; pages 33-36.

[Melinda in VT]

I have exposed my kids to it, we have 1 book on poetry, I told my daughter to read and see what she thinks. She read it once and put it down.

 

If you gave your daughter one novel to read and she read it and put it down, would you say that you had exposed your daughter to novels?

 

Perhaps I should qualify what I mean by poetry. I mean that stuff that you have to read, re-read, re-read again, maybe understand maybe not. :confused:You have to really analyze it to know what they are talking about and even then you may not know what they are talking about. :confused::confused:That's what I mean. I read Psalms...love Psalms. I know that is a form of poetry. I love music again another form as well. "Footprints in the Sand" is may favorite all time poem, if indeed it is a poem.

 

:confused:

 

It sounds as if you're redefining poetry as "stuff that is hard to understand" and then saying you don't like it. That's like me defining a novel as something written in the style of Faulkner or Joyce and dismissing everything else as "not a novel."

 

Poetry is a form. Poems can be short or long, serious or funny, light or dense.

 

Take, for example, this poem by Edna St. Vincent Millay. I have no real-life experience to match this poem, but I love her tone, and I think it's pretty easy to understand what she's saying.

 

Oh, Oh, You Will Be Sorry

Oh, oh, you will be sorry for that word!

Give me back my book and take my kiss instead.

Was it my enemy or my friend I heard,

"What a big book for such a little head!"

Come, I will show you now my newest hat,

And you may watch me purse my mouth and prink!

Oh, I shall love you still, and all of that.

I never again shall tell you what I think.

I shall be sweet and crafty, soft and sly;

You will not catch me reading any more:

I shall be called a wife to pattern by;

And some day when you knock and push the door,

Some sane day, not too bright and not too stormy,

I shall be gone, and you may whistle for me.

 

ETA: I think the reason I like this poem so much is that it was the first poem I read that expressed anger.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Melinda in VT

[Guest]

People have given some really good answers about why poetry can be valuable. But it can also be very intimidating or seem incomprehensible, and this is unnecessary.

 

Poetry is language play. It's like a puzzle: you have to take it apart to see how it works, then put it back together again and you now see much more than the sum of the parts.

 

And learning to do literary analysis is easier if you begin with something very short like a poem rather than with a story or a novel. Type and print out a poem with triple spacing and then practice what I call "noticing." What strikes your notice? Are there repeated words, or groups of words? Colors repeatedly mentioned? Plays on words? Opposites? How is the sound of the poem made: is there rhyme, or does the poem depend on internal rhythms and repetition of vowels or consonants? Are all the lines the same length? If they're not, why do you think the poet chose to arrange them in this way? (-- One great exercise is to print out all the lines as prose, and then see how you might cut them up and arrange them as a poem; compare that to the printed version.) Are there groups of words that seem to be referring to the same kind of thing or idea: as in the natural world, or birth, or death, or sounds, animals? Are there any words that seem somehow key, but you don't know why? What kinds of words is the writer choosing: informal, formal, slangy, long, short, visual and concrete or more abstract, scientific or philosophical, or what combination?

 

Once you've come back to the poem a few times to circle things, underline, point arrows connecting words in different lines, go away again and then come back and see if anything you've noticed seems to tie together into a kind of thematic package. How does what you've noticed relate to the title, or the main idea or image?

 

There are lots of books that go into a lot of detail about how to analyze poetry, but you don't really need to do more than this to get a pretty good understanding of how poets think about language. In a way it is surprisingly like math or science, in that there are patterns at work and you get to play detective, figuring out how the patterns form a cohesive picture.

 

I would say this is a later-stage activity for older kids and teenagers. Younger kids just need to have fun with words. If standard kid-poetry or literary classics don't do it for you or your child, branch out.

 

One thing my daughter loved when she was younger was memorizing poetry for the sounds. She liked "Jabberwocky" from "Through the Looking Glass" and all of the poems in "Practical Cats" by T. S. Eliot. We never did anything but recite them for one another. Some poems are just fun to SAY and enjoy the feel of; they will imprint rhythms and sounds on your brain. My daughter also loved old rhyming riddles from, believe it or not, "The Anglo-Saxon Book of Riddles." If you have a child who adores history -- particularly medieval -- or fantasy/knights stuff, he or she will probably like these (Tolkien has similar ones in "The Hobbit"). There are also whole books of narrative poetry -- stories, basically, told in poetic form, that are easier to understand because they're about people doing something concrete and understandable, not about ideas or making word pictures or anything like that. If your child is still left cold by all of this, there's a book of science poetry -- a picture book for upper elementary kids, as I remember (sorry, forget the exact title but you could google it).

 

Having said all this, I wouldn't go on to say that poetry is something you MUST learn to read and understand. Everyone has things they are drawn to, and equally, drawn away from. If there is some type of literature you love, I wouldn't sweat whether poetry ranks high on your list. Give it a good chance, and then move on.

[nmoira]

 

by Robert W. Service

My dad used to read me Service. My favourites were The Ballad of the Ice-Worm Cocktail and Bessie's Boil.

[nmoira]

We read poetry, memorize poetry, make poetry. We revel in the sound of words and in combinations of words and the pictures drawn in our minds (and often on paper). I try to choose poetry that can speak to the kids, but we don't limit readings to our experiences. My eldest was so excited when she found this short poem by Emily Dickinson, because "it felt like home." (her words)

 

T

HERE

is no frigate like a book

 

To take us lands away,

 

Nor any coursers like a page

 

Of prancing poetry.

 

This traverse may the poorest take

 

Without oppress of toll;

 

How frugal is the chariot

 

That bears a human soul!

[Impish]

My dad used to read me Service. My favourites were The Ballad of the Ice-Worm Cocktail and Bessie's Boil.

Love them! :lol::lol:

[LibraryLover]

Here's the first 'poem' my oldest was able to recite on his own and unpromted when he was 4:

 

In days of old

when knights we bold

and toilets not invented

 

They dropped their load

by the side of the road

and walked away contented.

 

<I was so very proud>

 

Contrast that with his baby sister who, at the same age, memorized this:

 

Annabel Lee

 

 

It was many and many a year ago,

In a kingdom by the sea,

That a maiden there lived whom you may know

By the name of Annabel Lee;

And this maiden she lived with no other thought

Than to love and be loved by me.

I was a child and she was a child,

In this kingdom by the sea;

But we loved with a love that was more than love -

I and my Annabel Lee;

With a love that the winged seraphs of heaven

Coveted her and me.

And this was the reason that, long ago,

In this kingdom by the sea,

A wind blew out of a cloud, chilling

My beautiful Annabel Lee;

So that her highborn kinsman came

And bore her away from me,

To shut her up in a sepulcher

In this kingdom by the sea.

The angels, not half so happy in heaven,

Went envying her and me

Yes! that was the reason

(as all men know, In this kingdom by the sea)

That the wind came out of the cloud by night,

Chilling and killing my Annabel Lee. But our love was stronger by far than the love

Of those who were older than we

Of many far wiser than we

And neither the angels in heaven above,

Nor the demons down under the sea,

Can ever dissever my soul from the soul

Of the beautiful Annabel Lee.

For the moon never beams without bringing me dreams

Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;

And the stars never rise but I feel the bright eyes

Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;

And so, all the night-tide, I lie down by the side

Of my darling, my darling, my life and my bride,

In the sepulcher there by the sea,

In her tomb by the sounding sea.

 

<there is a bit of a gender difference, even in very bright children> :lol:

Edited January 31, 2010 by LibraryLover

[abbeyej]

...

In days of old

when knights we bold

and toilets not invented

 

They dropped their load

by the side of the road

and walked away contented. ...

 

Interestingly, lol, that's not the version I knew. ;) (Mine wasn't exactly appropriate for 4yos...)

 

Ds' first poem that he recited was "How Doth the Little Crocodile", I think. :)

[Caitilin]

Aubrey, thanks for those 2 poems. I hadn't ever read either one--and I think they're absolutely lovely. But not sappy--sappy can go and sit in the syrup, for all of me. :)

 

And I agree with those who say that appreciating poetry is about appreciating the beauty of language spoken. Poetry is not a silent artform--to really read it and truly hear it, you have to read it aloud. Even the modern poetry that's not to my personal taste can be redeemed by a good reader's rendition.

[Mynyel]

We read poetry, memorize poetry, make poetry. We revel in the sound of words and in combinations of words and the pictures drawn in our minds (and often on paper). I try to choose poetry that can speak to the kids, but we don't limit readings to our experiences. My eldest was so excited when she found this short poem by Emily Dickinson, because "it felt like home." (her words)

T

HERE

is no frigate like a book

To take us lands away,

Nor any coursers like a page

Of prancing poetry.

This traverse may the poorest take

Without oppress of toll;

How frugal is the chariot

That bears a human soul!

 

Ok I picked this one just because it was short and sweet. I have read this one before and it is one of the poems in the one book of poetry we have. (For the previous poster, my kids have read more poetry than in that one book, we only own one book :D)

This is the kids of poetry that irks me...I can't explain why. I just don't like it.

 

As many have posted I can see how studying poetry would be good for critical thinking and digging deeper. However I would rather do it other ways that I can't think of right now.

 

My husband likes poetry, but I told him to please never spout poetry to me. I am not going to faint or go googly eyed :tongue_smilie:

 

I have tried to read some of the poems you guys have posted but I just can't read them all. Perhaps it is a mental block? I dunno.

 

I appreciate all the responses and I do understand why a lot of you want to study it. If y'all were closer maybe we could do a co-op and you could teach my kids about it! :001_smile: As for me? Nah...if it comes up in out Language Arts or anything else we shall but otherwise.....:001_smile:

[s.z.ichigo]

Two words: Shel Silverstein. Seriously. He's got some wonderful, laugh out loud poems.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I love poems that are clever/funny/satirical. It's the poems that take themselves too seriously that fail to hit the mark. Something like what few Poe worls Ive read are really good, becuse they use both beautiful language and they flow well. Most others sound more like a pseudo-intellectual college boy trying to impress girls in a coffee shop.

[nmoira]

This is the kids of poetry that irks me...I can't explain why. I just don't like it.

What about something a bit more modern? This is a big hit with my girls:

 

Allie

by Robert Graves

Allie, call the birds in,

The birds from the sky.

Allie calls, Allie sings,

Down they all fly.

First there came

Two white doves

Then a sparrow from his nest,

Then a clucking bantam hen,

Then a robin red-breast.

 

Allie, call the beasts in,

The beasts, every one.

Allie calls, Allie sings,

In they all run.

First there came

Two black lambs,

Then a grunting Berkshire sow,

Then a dog without a tail,

Then a red and white cow.

 

Allie, call the fish up,

The fish from the stream.

Allie calls, Allie sings,

Up they all swim.

First there came

Two gold fish,

A minnow and a miller’s thumb,

Then a pair of loving trout,

Then the twisted eels come.

 

Allie, call the children,

Children from the green.

Allie calls, Allie sings,

Soon they run in.

First there came

Tom and Madge,

Kate and I who’ll not forget

How we played by the water’s edge

Till the April sun set.

[Aubrey]

My husband likes poetry, but I told him to please never spout poetry to me. I am not going to faint or go googly eyed :tongue_smilie:

 

Ah, but dh & I use it in much more sinister ways:

 

Me, concerning the house when it's a disaster: "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here!"

 

Dh, laughing: "Someone taped a sign that said that on the door to one of the buildings I deliver to because the guys inside take so long to come get packages!"

 

Dh, in the context of a conversation about TS Eliot, cites a line from one of his poems: "In my beginning is my end..."

 

Me, a little loopy: "Huh. I never realized how that sounds..." :001_huh:

 

Dh, later, regarding stupid people, refers back to that line that now strikes us as funny & will be one of our permanent, ongoing jokes: "In my beginning is my END." :lol:

 

Another favorite: "Do you know nothing? Do you remember nothing?"

 

I guess we use poetry like other people use movie quotes. I knew we were out there, but I hadn't really reflected on just. how. far.

 

One you might like, OP: "The poetry does not matter." TS Eliot, in case you need to cite your sources. ;)

Edited January 31, 2010 by Aubrey

[Aubrey]

See now some of Shakespeare I like. Like Hamlet, I like Hamlet. However I have never considered it poetry I considered it a play. I can understand it just my reading it. I don't have to "read between the lines".

 

I've been thinking about this ever since reading this post.

 

Most literature requires reading between the lines--it's not just poetry.

 

History, if we're going to study it well, requires reading between the lines to some extent.

 

Math, as in word problems, requires reading between the lines, to determine what's being asked, how to approach a problem, etc.

 

I guess I don't think poetry is necessarily different from anything else in this way, although I'll concede that it's asking a person to use a different part of the brain to do these kinds of thinking, & I also realize that some of us tend to be more gifted on the numbers side of things, others with language, others with images, etc. So while I would no more expect everyone to understand and enjoy complex poetry than I would expect everyone to understand and enjoy...well...really hard math, lol, I think it's worth observing that it's the same *kind* of thinking skills involved.

 

Just like we want our kids to be proficient in important subjects and excellent in whatever they're skilled at, I'd say there's a reasonable amt of poetry/lit to be expected of all well-educated people, while some will need greater challenges in this area because it is the area of their gifting. Or something like that. :D

[Kareni]

Another contemporary poet is Billy Collins. He was the Poet Laureate of the United States from 2001 to 2003.

 

 

Introduction To Poetry by Billy Collins

 

I ask them to take a poem

and hold it up to the light

like a color slide

 

or press an ear against its hive.

 

I say drop a mouse into a poem

and watch him probe his way out,

 

or walk inside the poem's room

and feel the walls for a light switch.

 

I want them to waterski

across the surface of a poem

waving at the author's name on the shore.

 

But all they want to do

is tie the poem to a chair with rope

and torture a confession out of it.

 

They begin beating it with a hose

to find out what it really means.

 

 

I think many hold poetry in disfavor due to having been forced to analyze poems to death!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Peela]

I can really relate to not being able to relate to a lot of poetry.

I think a lot of poetry is something you have to approach from a heart space rather than an intellectual space. Like a painting. You "feel" it rather than think about it too much. That being said, I can only appreciate most poetry sometimes- definitely not all the time.

I do have a strong opinion that it is a generally very valid art form, and so for that reason, I teach it. It expresses things that prose cannot, the same way that a painting can express things that a photograph cannot- or at least express them differently.

I approach this learning journey with my kids with an open mind and even though I dont read poetry in my spare time - well, ocasionally, but not often- I have appreciated reading it with my kids- not because I always appreciate it or even like it- but simply because we are being exposed to it. And sometimes, I feel enriched by the poetry we read and sometimes I don't. And that's ok- as Charlotte Mason said- I am laying out a smorgesbord of ideas for my kids and not all are going to take hold and sink in- but some will. How will my kids ever learn to appreciate poetry at all, if they are not at least exposed to it. A literature based education has to include poetry to be complete.

And like others, I make sure a fair amount of poetry we cover is humorous, so as to creat a positive impression and just so that they enjoy it. I also pick and choose the poetry we read- and we dont do as much as many here do. But we do read some every day.

[Paintedlady]

I think that Andrew Pudewa gives a great defense for memorizing poetry in his Linguistics Through Poetry (or whatever the title). He talks about the importance of memorizing being good for the brain. He talks about the importance of students hearing good language when they are surrounded by poor to mediocre language.

 

Andrew Pudewa is the one who convinced me to start using a poetry program with my kids. We use the audio cds, which are a God-send. They really make all the difference to me.

 

I never really liked or understood poetry much, but after using his program for the last 2 years, I have to say it's totally transformed our homeschool. We all love poetry now. We use it as a jumping off point to learn all sorts of interesting things. Geography, vocabulary, dictionary skills, etc... It's led us down all kinds of rabbit trails.

[helena]

That's so weird, I was just asking myself the same question yesterday. I've been working on next years curriculum and poetry is a no brainer, I know we will continue with poetry study next year.

I decided that it matters because of a few things.

First and most important, my girls love it. They enjoy reading, memorizing and reciting it, and they enjoy knowing about different poets.

Second, I think (I hope) it give an excellent example of writing styles. I hope it encourages better writing skills. It's short enough and easy enough to really pick apart, understand, and interpret.

Third, I believe I'm doing my part to preserve something important. I think poetry is kind of like an oral history, in that through spoken word, it collectively tells something important about mankind. It's a unique and beautiful way to record the human experience.

 

Sometimes I get cynical about modern poetry, and I start to think that so much of it is narcissistic and nauseating. Then I think about a friend of mine who is a poet and sometimes I'll watch an old youtube clip of him, and I quickly remember that it's still a powerful tool. Even in a modern and cynical world, poetry has a powerful impact on many people. It's simple and commanding, it's for everyone, it speaks to everyone whether you're rich, poor, old, young, black, white, from the country or the city. There are words for you, somebody wrote words for you, you are a part of the spirit of those particular words. Does that make sense?

 

We keep poetry super simple here. Every month I put up a photo, full name, and poem from one poet. We memorize it and talk about it for the month, we read other works from that person and last we put them in our timeline pages. We also read poetry to ourselves and sometimes we read selections to each other.

Here's a clip of my friend who did some of his stuff on Def Jam Poetry

 

hope you enjoy it :)

 

Forgot to add:

Have you tried listening to poetry on cd? I've found it interesting to hear other people reading poetry especially poets reading their own work. Sometimes I'm like "Oh, that's how it flows"..

Here is one that we own, there's some great stuff on it:

http://www.amazon.com/Poetry-Speaks-Children-Book-Read/dp/1402203292/ref=pd_sim_b_1

 

ok off to read other peoples responses!

Edited January 31, 2010 by helena