When to enter (bricks and mortar) 'high school'

[Laura Corin]

Scotland has a flexible entry system for children born late in the year or early in the next year. Calvin was born in December, so he could have entered school at 4 3/4 or at 5 3/4. The school that we have applied to assumed that he would enter at 14 3/4 and graduate at 18 1/2. He's been talking to his friends at scouts and has discovered that all the people he knows that go to that school are actually in the year above. He's wondering why he shouldn't join them. These are the pros and cons, as I see them. What do you think?

 

High school at 13 3/4, graduate at 17 1/2

 

• He will be in the same year as his friends
  
• He would be embarrassed to be put into a lower grade
  
• He wants to go to school, so this would be a way of his pushing to go a year earlier. He's not causing trouble over the decision, however.
  
• He is ferociously bright so perhaps going younger will challenge him
  
• Going to university at seventeen is not that unusual in Scotland
  
• He is very tall and going through puberty early, so unlikely to stick out by being younger
  

 

 

High school at 14 3/4, graduate at 18 1/2

 

• Although he will be in the same year as his friends, there are three classes in each year, so he may not even see them
  
• He may well find that his friends already have social structures at school and the friendships are not worth much
  
• He has delayed motor skills, so another year of time is no bad thing to allow him to cope with the writing volume
  
• Although he is bright, he doesn't have much drive. Perhaps he will have more sense of a goal when he is older.
  
• Although going to university at seventeen is not unusual, it is socially difficult (because you can't drink legally and much student life revolves around pubs) and another year of maturity before leaving home may be good. He could fill in with a gap year before university, however.
  
• He hasn't been to school since he was six, so being older might make him better prepared for coping, both academically and socially.
  

 

 

What do you think?

 

Laura

[*********]

Wow Laura, that's really a tough one.

 

My birthday is in November, and I started Kindergarten at 4 3/4. Which means when I graduated, I was 17 1/2. I always felt like I was the youngest in my class, since I believe I just made the cut-off by a matter of days to enter K the year I did. I think most people would have chosen to keep their child back and put them in K the following year. But my parents were divorcing, and had enough going on, and frankly it was probably best for me at the time to have the stability of going to school.

 

But that's not your situation, now is it. :001_smile:

 

I guess if it were me, based on my own experiences, I would tend toward waiting the extra year. But you'll have to weigh that out against what you feel is best for your family. And really, at 13, I think your son's opinion *should get some weight in the matter, too. I mean, you and your dh have to do what's best, but he's at the age of wanting to have a 'voice' in his life, too.

 

That's a tough one. Best wishes on your decision.

[Audrey]

Scotland has a flexible entry system for children born late in the year or early in the next year. Calvin was born in December, so he could have entered school at 4 3/4 or at 5 3/4. The school that we have applied to assumed that he would enter at 14 3/4 and graduate at 18 1/2. He's been talking to his friends at scouts and has discovered that all the people he knows that go to that school are actually in the year above. He's wondering why he shouldn't join them. These are the pros and cons, as I see them. What do you think?

 

 

High school at 13 3/4, graduate at 17 1/2

 

• He will be in the same year as his friends

• He would be embarrassed to be put into a lower grade

• He wants to go to school, so this would be a way of his pushing to go a year earlier. He's not causing trouble over the decision, however.

• He is ferociously bright so perhaps going younger will challenge him

• Going to university at seventeen is not that unusual in Scotland

• He is very tall and going through puberty early, so unlikely to stick out by being younger

 

 

High school at 14 3/4, graduate at 18 1/2

 

• Although he will be in the same year as his friends, there are three classes in each year, so he may not even see them

• He may well find that his friends already have social structures at school and the friendships are not worth much

• He has delayed motor skills, so another year of time is no bad thing to allow him to cope with the writing volume

• Although he is bright, he doesn't have much drive. Perhaps he will have more sense of a goal when he is older.

• Although going to university at seventeen is not unusual, it is socially difficult (because you can't drink legally and much student life revolves around pubs) and another year of maturity before leaving home may be good. He could fill in with a gap year before university, however.

• He hasn't been to school since he was six, so being older might make him better prepared for coping, both academically and socially.

 

What do you think?

 

Laura

 

 

This was just my own personal experience...

I skipped a grade (so was younger by a year and graduated at 17). I'm sorry my parents agreed with the school to do it. It was not difficult academically, but socially, it was a disaster. I would have been far better off staying with my friends.

 

FWIW, the "she's tall" argument was one of the deciding factors for my parents. I may have been tall on the outside, but on the inside, I was still a little kid.

[Corraleno]

I would start him at 13.5, let him graduate at 17.5, and then decide if he should go straight to uni or take a gap year if he needs more maturity. That way both options will be available, and you can choose between them when the time comes. I think a gap year may be better for developing maturity than an extra year of HS anyway (I wish that was more common in the US). If he delays entry into HS, then you've limited your options to just one.

 

FWIW, I accelerated HS and graduated at 16, started college at 17, and was very glad I did.

 

Jackie

[Starr]

Your arguments indicate wait to me. I was pushed ahead at 12 and it was rough going for a while. I graduated at 16 and then was an exchange student so it all worked out in the end. There are so many options it makes it difficult. I would worry about his lack of drive to work up to his ability.

[AuntieM]

Wow, you could really go either way.

 

*IF* it were me, based on my personal experiences with boys this age, I would say let him go on in the same year as his friends. There just seems to come a time in a young man's life when he is so much more motivated by healthy competition with his peers than by being solely under the authority of his mother (I am speaking of good things here, not the bad sort of peer pressure that we tend to think of in institutional school settings).

 

My oldest is a sharp cookie, but I could only get him to a high "B" gade level at home. With a little friendly competition, he *quickly* rose to the high "A" grade range, and is much more timely in completing his assignments. The classroom environment has energized him.

 

I see the same thing happening with my soon to be 13yos.

 

True, Calvin may not end up in the same classroom as his friends. But he will have common points for discussion.

 

Just my pair o' pennies.

Edited January 20, 2010 by AuntieM

[Parrothead]

I was a 17-year old high school graduate. For me the problems were always social. I couldn't date until I was 16 so all my friends were going out and socializing. I wasn't allowed to. Which left me time to get in trouble in other ways.

 

If it were me, based on my own experience I'd wait.

[patchfire]

I skipped kindergarten, and while I've never regretted that my parents made that decision, for the most part, yes, it was hard to be the youngest many times. Based on what you'd said above, I'd be very, very tempted to wait.

[ChristusG]

I have a July birthday and so I was always the youngest in my classes. I graduated at 17.

 

I never knew any difference....being the youngest never bothered me. I went straight to college out of high school (I had just turned 18 when college began that fall).

[Jenn in Mo]

I like the idea of a gap year, possibly pursuing CLEP testing during that time to accumulate credits. My hope in doing this is that it will get mine on a more serious track and skip the "party" year. Once they begin to see that they can 'get somewhere', I'm hoping mine will start to put more thought into where that 'somewhere' might be.

[HRAAB]

I graduated at 16, but didn't go directly to college. I had never heard of a 'gap year' back then, but I needed it. I worked and saved money. My dd graduated at 16 and started college a month before her 17th birthday. Her age never seemed to interfere with her social life. Most of her friends were 18 or 19, and since the drinking age here is 21, she didn't feel left out. Socially, she's always been more mature than many her age so college seemed a good fit all the way around.

 

I 'think' if it were me, I would let him start early and graduate early, and then decide if he was ready for university. He could always wait a year before college.

[SproutMamaK]

I went young (skipped a year) and LOVED it. Most of my friends were a year older than me to begin with, and I appreciated being able to stay with him.

 

As far as drive goes, this MAY be a good thing for him. If he's not driven now and he needs to find a new place for himself in a new school, it may push him to do well for social reasons. Not to sound trivial, but no one wants to be the kid in class that just doesn't get it. It doesn't sound like he would be "that kid" - but the desire to NOT get that "label" may push him a little more.

 

That being said, if you don't think he's ready - don't do it. I just wanted to throw in another perspective.

[Crimson Wife]

I had the opposite experience of Bethany & Audrey. I have a January birthday and missed the cutoff by 3 weeks. When I switched from private to public school at age 9, the new school recommended skipping me into 4th grade but my parents refused. They were concerned about me being the youngest in the class. I really wish they had agreed to the skip because then I think I would actually have had an easier time socially. I wouldn't have stuck out so much academically and also I wouldn't have hit puberty 18 months before most of the other girls. I still would've been a bit ahead of my classmates but not SO much ahead.

 

One of the reasons we started HS is because my oldest has an October birthday and most of the schools in the area have a September cutoff. I didn't want her to go through what I did.

 

I would start him off early & then do a "gap year" before university.

[Pixie]

I had the opposite experience of Bethany & Audrey. I have a January birthday and missed the cutoff by 3 weeks. When I switched from private to public school at age 9, the new school recommended skipping me into 4th grade but my parents refused. They were concerned about me being the youngest in the class. I really wish they had agreed to the skip because then I think I would actually have had an easier time socially. I wouldn't have stuck out so much academically and also I wouldn't have hit puberty 18 months before most of the other girls. I still would've been a bit ahead of my classmates but not SO much ahead.

 

One of the reasons we started HS is because my oldest has an October birthday and most of the schools in the area have a September cutoff. I didn't want her to go through what I did.

 

I would start him off early & then do a "gap year" before university.

 

This is my experience too, born in January, offered a skip from 4th to 5th but my parents turned it down (i was never asked, which I understand since I was still so young). Socially I never fit in until I got to engineering school, I may not have fit in either in the next class up but it woudln't have been worse either and at least I would have had more of an academic challenge and been more prepared to actually study once out of high school. Getting As without studying, sure doesn't help to develop some good study habits and it was a SHOCK once I got to engineering school and I actually had to crack open a book.

[Tap]

I would make him earn the early entrance if that is what he wants. I would assign his work to be much like traditional school. Larger projects, with little to no input from you. More syllabus work, without mommy reminders of due dates/hints/instructions. Tough grading and high expectations. If work isn't done on time, he gets marked down a letter grade per day (or what ever you decide is fair). I would make him get a qualifying grade in every subject before he can go in early. If is attitude or maturity aren't in check...then it is a no go and he has to wait a year. But if he can achieve the goals you set forth, then let him go at the younger age.

 

There are benefits to keeping an harder academic load on a younger student, but only if the maturity is there to support it. Otherwise it can backfire and make a kid feel inadequate, inferior and misplaced.

 

 

Ds15 is a sophomore in a good public high school. He gets decent grades in advanced classes and did fine on his PSAT. That being said he really could have used a year on the maturity side because little things can really shake his confidence. He is very mature in some ways, but in others, his age does show through. Just because he is able to do the academic work, doesn't mean he is mentally ready for the independent responsibilities required.

 

If your ds waits a year, he will still be challenged, assuming that Scotland has classes similar to the USA's AP or honor classes. In high school, there are more options to be challenged so I think that most kids can get a good academic match. Especially, if they are in an area that has larger/academic schools that can offer the higher level classes.

[Laura Corin]

If he delays entry into HS, then you've limited your options to just one.

 

 

Gap years are very common in the UK - students often start university at 19.

 

Laura

[Alice]

I would vote for letting him start early. I'm another one who "skipped kindergarten" and started 1st grade at 5. My birthday is in Feb so I was usually a good 6-12 months younger than others in my grade. It never caused any problems. I went ahead and started my son early in K. because he was ready. He has a Nov birthday so is only a bit "ahead" but my plan ultimately is to do the gap year and then he'll go off to college at 18, almost 19.

 

I'd say let him start early with his friends and when he feels ready. Then if he seems to need the year, let him do a gap year (or just let him do it because it's a great option).

[RoughCollie]

I would put him in school at age 13-3/4, given that he can handle the academics, which it sounds like he can.

 

He wants to go, friends are important to kids, and so is not being embarrassed. I don't see an important downside risk here.

 

As for coping socially, if it is going to be a problem, it will be resolved fairly quickly no matter which year he starts going out to school.

 

Now, if DS1 had stayed in our public school system beyond 1st grade, the other kids would have been used to him, and he to them. Perhaps he would have been more like them, and less like himself. Part of the idea of homeschooling him to begin with was to prevent him from being molded by the school system into something he was not.

 

My DS1 started going out to school when he was in 8th grade. He said his biggest problem was realizing that when another kid asked him a question about the material, he was not being tested. It took him awhile to discover that the questions were genuine. Such are the problems of a homeschooled kid who was apparently "tested" on a regular basis by his friends who went out to school. I had no idea this had occurred in the past.

 

He had trouble getting used to the content of ordinary conversations with other kids. He was not accustomed to talking about movies and t.v. in a desultory way. He did not expect other kids to have such narrow interests.

 

The other kids did not read nearly as much or at the same level as he. If he wanted to discuss books, he found the other kids were reading books he had read in elementary school.

 

His extensive vocabulary was frequently remarked upon, until the other kids got used to it.

 

He likes to debate points about issues and to talk about exciting breakthroughs in science, and so forth. The other kids do not care about these issues and don't want to talk about them.

 

This is all pretty much what one would expect, I suppose, given the differences in our homeschool environment and public and parochial schools.

 

Mind you, at the end, DS1 hated being homeschooled and could not wait to get to a regular school. I think this is partly because he is an extrovert. He does not want to come home for either homeschooling or cyberschooling.

Edited January 20, 2010 by RoughCollie

[katilac]

If he's going to school one way or the other, I'd let him make the decision. None of the reasons for either starting or waiting strike me as so compelling or important that it must be a parental decision; letting him decide has him starting school with enthusiasm and ownership of the decision.

 

I wouldn't let my kids decide TO GO to school because friends are going, but if the decision to go is made, I'd consider one year versus the next to be a very minor consideration.

[courtney.byrum]

I have a July birthday and so I was always the youngest in my classes. I graduated at 17.

 

I never knew any difference....being the youngest never bothered me. I went straight to college out of high school (I had just turned 18 when college began that fall).

 

Same here, exactly (also July birthday) though there were a few younger than me in my classes as well as several over a year older.

[Starr]

Laura it looks like you can't go wrong with whatever you do. :)

[abbeyej]

I was in a similar position to his... I was home schooled 'til high school. While I began in my "age" grade, it became evident fairly quickly that that wasn't the best spot for me. I doubled up on some classes (math), skipped others (did French 1,3,5), did some independent study courses (English), and spent my second and third years in high school doing classes mostly with kids who were technically a grade (or two) ahead of me. (And, btw, I was in an IB school...) I went to college at 17, and it was the right choice for me.

 

So, from *my* perspective, I vote for letting him start sooner, be in a grade with his friends, and be (perhaps!) more challenged by the material. I don't see a whole lot of good coming from telling him "no", keeping him out of the grade his friends are in, and setting him up to be bored and unchallenged...

 

ETA:

BTW, I think there's a difference between going all the way through school as "the youngest" and choosing that as a teenager. At least at my high school, it wasn't all that unusual to be in some classes with kids from various grades. And I *wanted* to be in the classes where I was the youngest or nearly the youngest. Maybe it's harder if you go through elementary school getting the message "you're the youngest"? But in my case and, the decision was largely my own, and I didn't regret it. It sounds like your son would prefer that as well. ... Sure, some of my friends could drive before I could -- but that's true for everyone, isn't it? Some kids dated when I did not. Perhaps if one feels forced into that, it's more painful. But since your son wants to *choose* this, and he's old enough to consider some of the consequences, I'd be very inclined to let his say be a major factor in the decision...

Edited January 20, 2010 by abbeyej

[Laura Corin]

 

There are benefits to keeping an harder academic load on a younger student, but only if the maturity is there to support it. Otherwise it can backfire and make a kid feel inadequate, inferior and misplaced.

 

 

Ds15 is a sophomore in a good public high school. He gets decent grades in advanced classes and did fine on his PSAT. That being said he really could have used a year on the maturity side because little things can really shake his confidence. He is very mature in some ways, but in others, his age does show through. Just because he is able to do the academic work, doesn't mean he is mentally ready for the independent responsibilities required.

 

If your ds waits a year, he will still be challenged, assuming that Scotland has classes similar to the USA's AP or honor classes. In high school, there are more options to be challenged so I think that most kids can get a good academic match. Especially, if they are in an area that has larger/academic schools that can offer the higher level classes.

 

I don't think that challenge will be a problem, even if we wait - the sheer volume of work will be a lot for him to cope with. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Laura

[zaichiki]

He had trouble getting used to the content of ordinary conversations with other kids. He was not accustomed to talking about movies and t.v. in a desultory way. He did not expect other kids to have such narrow interests.

 

The other kids did not read nearly as much or at the same level as he. If he wanted to discuss books, he found the other kids were reading books he had read in elementary school.

 

His extensive vocabulary was frequently remarked upon, until the other kids got used to it.

 

He likes to debate points about issues and to talk about exciting breakthroughs in science, and so forth. The other kids do not care about these issues and don't want to talk about them.

 

This is all pretty much what one would expect, I suppose, given the differences in our homeschool environment and public and parochial schools.

 

 

Our ds is dealing with these exact 4 issues right now. I'm glad to hear that it isn't an isolated thing (his shortcomings). It does make the social scene a little rocky at the moment, but it's a learning experience. (Right?)

[abbeyej]

I don't think that challenge will be a problem, even if we wait - the sheer volume of work will be a lot for him to cope with. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

IB isn't necessarily all that challenging... Do you know anyone with older students who graduated from the school in the last 2-5 years? Bright, motivated students? It would be helpful to ask them what the work load was really like.

[Laura Corin]

IB isn't necessarily all that challenging... Do you know anyone with older students who graduated from the school in the last 2-5 years? Bright, motivated students? It would be helpful to ask them what the work load was really like.

 

The school produces some excellent results - one girl last year got maximum marks - and the pupils talked about a pretty rigorous workload.

 

Calvin is bright, but whether he is motivated we won't know until he actually starts school.

 

Thanks,

 

Laura

[Rosie_0801]

I would start him at 13.5, let him graduate at 17.5, and then decide if he should go straight to uni or take a gap year if he needs more maturity. That way both options will be available, and you can choose between them when the time comes. I think a gap year may be better for developing maturity than an extra year of HS anyway (I wish that was more common in the US). If he delays entry into HS, then you've limited your options to just one.

Jackie

 

 

:iagree:

 

Rosie