Your thoughts on full-body imaging scan...

[swimmermom3]

What are your thoughts on full-body-imaging scans being used in airport security? While not happy, I wasn't exactly sure what I thought until I saw an actual image. I would link but I am not sure it would be appropriate to do so. An image scan of my teenage daughter? Or sons? :tongue_smilie:

 

Or did I already miss this thread? It's on my mind because we do travel often and my husband flies all the time.

[mazakaal]

I felt the same way when I first heard about it, not pleased, but not upset either, until I saw a few images. I really don't like the idea at all now, but expect that it is probably inevitable. Over here they are saying that the pictures will be viewed in a different location from where they are taken. So, in other words, the person looking at the picture will have no idea whose picture it is. Some articles say that the explosives that the Christmas Day bomber had wouldn't have shown up in the full-body imaging scans anyway. Several years ago we were flying out of West Palm Beach airport in Florida and we had to go through a machine that was being tested. you stood in a 'doorway' type thing and air was blown on you. It somehow tested whether or not you had any explosives on you. I don't know why that didn't go into wider use.

[Parrothead]

Not for it in the least. I think it would have no effect. People will swallow or otherwise hid in orifices the strangest things. Then there is the health risk of being continually scanned - espeically among people who travel by air daily/weekly/fairly often. Not to mention the the cost consideration. And would it really detect a bomb that a suicide bomber has fashioned from C4 into underwear?

[Julie in Austin]

Apparently there are ways to digitally manipulate the image before anyone looks at it so as to be less revealing; you can see an example of that here:

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122289282

[Pretty in Pink]

I don't really have a problem with it, but I think that determined individuals will always find ways around security.

[4kiddies]

Truthfully, I think we are at a critical point in our nations security. It is not if we have another terrorist attack its when and how bad. And my opinion is we should all be willing to give up some freedom to ensure our safety. I would much rather give up some privacy and have them body scan me and my family and the rest of the passagers on my flight than be on a plane that explodes in the air or is used as a weapon against a building.

 

We are all so worried about privacy when we should be worried, very worried, about our safety.

 

JMO.

[TravelingChris]

I believe we should be looking for suspicious people rather than suspicious objects. There is a lot of reasons to believe that the full body scanners wouldn't be able to detect the bombs. How can they tell Depends or feminine products versus bombs? How about bombs that are placed in body cavities? IF they are blurring the private areas, that is exactly where the bomb was. I wish we would start following El Al's example. Israel has bombs gong off frequently in their marketplaces, buses, discos, etc. but none on their airline. Ohand these machines are very expensive so maybe we should get more bomb sniffing dogs and handlers and get some kind of program to have military, law enforcement, rugby players, etc. get signed up for screening and then give a few a free flight on each flight. We can scan people all we want but how often are the airport workers bribed or fellow travelers of the terrorists? I think full body scanners are a smart idea of one step in the security process for a secondary screening. But that sceondary screening should not be random. Our threat is 75 yo grandma travelling to FL for a cruise. It isn't the mom of three travelling with little ones. It is the guy travelling from equatorial Africa to frigid Detroit in winter with only a small carryon not big enough to hold a winter coat and paying cash for his ticket.

[swimmermom3]

Apparently there are ways to digitally manipulate the image before anyone looks at it so as to be less revealing; you can see an example of that here:

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122289282

 

Julie, this looks very benign compared to the image I saw of a female airport security employee that was scanned. I could live with this I think, especially since I have experienced the indignity of being patted down.

 

On the other hand, the image I saw was basically a black and white photo of a naked body in all its detail with a blurred head. Let's just say if your other half saw the photo, they could probably ID you. If this were the technology used, bring on the pat down. That's over in a few minutes no matter how red your face is. When it comes to technology, there is money to be made. Just as terrorists will find ways around the tech so will security employees in need of cash. Regardless of what is said, my guess is that images can and will be stored with faces fully identifiable. Oh voices of reason, tell me I am not fear-mongering here.

 

I'd like to think that abuse of the process would not be the case. However, I didn't think a hospital employee would be dumb enough to take medical records home on their laptop only to have it stolen from their car. My husband's records were among those stolen.

[Mynyel]

Truthfully, I think we are at a critical point in our nations security. It is not if we have another terrorist attack its when and how bad. And my opinion is we should all be willing to give up some freedom to ensure our safety. I would much rather give up some privacy and have them body scan me and my family and the rest of the passagers on my flight than be on a plane that explodes in the air or is used as a weapon against a building.

 

We are all so worried about privacy when we should be worried, very worried, about our safety.

 

JMO.

 

I disagree, just how much freedom can we and should we give up in the name of "national security"?

 

Correct me if I am wrong but this guy that had the bomb in his BVD's didn't board the plane in the USA so why are we in the USA having to succumb to more security measures that I personally find disturbing.

I have a 12 yo daughter that I do not want going through those machines. I don't care where they put them...another room..another country! There are going to be people looking at these and I don't like it.

What is next? Full body searches? You may think that extreme but even a few years ago these machines would have been extreme.

 

I will not sit by and give up any more freedoms. I did not bomb anything, I have never even though that way. The majority of America doesn't think that way yet we are all treated like the criminals when they come down with these policies.

 

They need to get their own act together and go after the bad guys instead of subjecting all the average normal people to things like scans and pat downs.

 

*steps off soap box*

 

My opinion....:grouphug:

[swimmermom3]

I believe we should be looking for suspicious people rather than suspicious objects. There is a lot of reasons to believe that the full body scanners wouldn't be able to detect the bombs. How can they tell Depends or feminine products versus bombs? How about bombs that are placed in body cavities? IF they are blurring the private areas, that is exactly where the bomb was. I wish we would start following El Al's example. Israel has bombs gong off frequently in their marketplaces, buses, discos, etc. but none on their airline. Ohand these machines are very expensive so maybe we should get more bomb sniffing dogs and handlers and get some kind of program to have military, law enforcement, rugby players, etc. get signed up for screening and then give a few a free flight on each flight. We can scan people all we want but how often are the airport workers bribed or fellow travelers of the terrorists? I think full body scanners are a smart idea of one step in the security process for a secondary screening. But that sceondary screening should not be random. Our threat is 75 yo grandma travelling to FL for a cruise. It isn't the mom of three travelling with little ones. It is the guy travelling from equatorial Africa to frigid Detroit in winter with only a small carryon not big enough to hold a winter coat and paying cash for his ticket.

 

Chris, they are not blurring private parts. It is my understanding that this significantly reduces the effectiveness of the scan.

[In The Great White North]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4kiddies

Truthfully, I think we are at a critical point in our nations security. It is not if we have another terrorist attack its when and how bad. And my opinion is we should all be willing to give up some freedom to ensure our safety. I would much rather give up some privacy and have them body scan me and my family and the rest of the passagers on my flight than be on a plane that explodes in the air or is used as a weapon against a building.

 

We are all so worried about privacy when we should be worried, very worried, about our safety.

 

JMO.

 

I disagree, just how much freedom can we and should we give up in the name of "national security"?

 

Correct me if I am wrong but this guy that had the bomb in his BVD's didn't board the plane in the USA so why are we in the USA having to succumb to more security measures that I personally find disturbing.

I have a 12 yo daughter that I do not want going through those machines. I don't care where they put them...another room..another country! There are going to be people looking at these and I don't like it.

What is next? Full body searches? You may think that extreme but even a few years ago these machines would have been extreme.

 

I will not sit by and give up any more freedoms. I did not bomb anything, I have never even though that way. The majority of America doesn't think that way yet we are all treated like the criminals when they come down with these policies.

 

They need to get their own act together and go after the bad guys instead of subjecting all the average normal people to things like scans and pat downs.

 

 

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

 

Ben Franklin

[MamaSheep]

I'm not willing to trade that level of privacy for the level of increased security that I think would actually result. I think determined terrorists will just find a way around it anyway, and we'll have spent billions of dollars we don't have and be looking the wrong way when they come up with the next thing. I do think that REASONABLE precautions to ensure a REASONABLE degree of safety should be taken, but I do not think full body scans are reasonable. I take risks every day when I walk out my door--and even before that. The guy in the car next to me on the freeway could be driving a car bomb for all I know, but I am not willing to have my car searched at each on-ramp just to decrease the odds of that. I am also not willing to wear bubble wrap clothing in case I bump into something. I am not willing to go through a metal detector in order to walk down a public sidewalk, even if that means there might be muggers with guns. Yes, there are lots of scary people out there. Some of them don't even RIDE on airplanes.

Edited January 8, 2010 by MamaSheep

[Jenny in Atl]

No problem with it... at least as far as the nudity thing goes. Not sure about the radiation exposure though. We are due to fly out to Colorado next fall, and with Fi's diabetes (her insulin pump, supplies, etc) I'm not looking forward to the process, and I used to love to fly.

[Mynyel]

II am also not willing to wear bubble wrap clothing in case I bump into something..

 

:lol::lol:

 

That made my day!

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I am not against it and think it is a good idea as long as the images can only be viewed by same sex security personnel and not by anyone else. The question I have is do these scans use X rays and what are the implications if they do medical wise?

[fivetails]

I have a 12 yo daughter that I do not want going through those machines.

 

The other, I read an article that said minors would NOT be scanned. I don't remember where it was - prolly on CBC or something - but it appeared to be a firm statement.

[LG Gone Wild]

No WAY. It's a stupid idea.

 

Anyway panty bomber was on a no-fly list and his own father warned the US. No need public pelvic exams.

[mcconnellboys]

I guess I'm pretty pragmatic about such things. A body is a body is a body, ya know?

 

I think it would be considerate for them to have a women's lane and a men's lane, with same sex scanners viewing the images. But really, I don't know the scanners and will never know them. They will be viewing hundreds to thousands of bodies a day. I would think that they would be profiled before hiring to prevent putting perverts into such positions. And after a short time of seeing so many bodies, even if they are viewing both sexes, I think for most people a body will become a body, a body, a body....

[Parrothead]

Truthfully, I think we are at a critical point in our nations security. It is not if we have another terrorist attack its when and how bad. And my opinion is we should all be willing to give up some freedom to ensure our safety. I would much rather give up some privacy and have them body scan me and my family and the rest of the passagers on my flight than be on a plane that explodes in the air or is used as a weapon against a building.

 

We are all so worried about privacy when we should be worried, very worried, about our safety.

 

JMO.

There really isn't a need for all that if the people we have charged with keeping us safe would get there heads out of their rears and do their jobs instead of playing politics. If the laws we have on the books were enforced as they were meant to be then we would not have to be degrade in such a manner.

[Kalypso]

Ben Franklin

 

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

 

:iagree:

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I think there is a fine line between protecting our freedom and invading our privacy. I'm not sure where I stand. It's something I think about alot and I'm not at peace yet about this kind of thing. It's a tough one for me. It can be such a slippery slope. I'm concerned that a lot of things can become, "We're doing this for your protection." and as long as they say that, we accept it because we want to travel safe, live safe, be safe. I don't know. It seems like a good thing--but then, where does it all end?

 

Like I said, I'm not at peace about all this yet.

[Jami]

I would rather submit to imaging than to a pat-down. I find that to be extremely humiliating. I had that done once and I felt that it was degrading.

 

Given the option, I would rather have neither. But I do understand the importance of safety.

 

:iagree:

[LG Gone Wild]

I guess I'm pretty pragmatic about such things. A body is a body is a body, ya know?

 

I think it would be considerate for them to have a women's lane and a men's lane, with same sex scanners viewing the images. But really, I don't know the scanners and will never know them. They will be viewing hundreds to thousands of bodies a day. I would think that they would be profiled before hiring to prevent putting perverts into such positions. And after a short time of seeing so many bodies, even if they are viewing both sexes, I think for most people a body will become a body, a body, a body....

 

I don't know if that's really pragmatic as it doesn't address the problem which in incompetent government. They (the powers that be) displayed gross incompetence so why should the next step be to force public nakedness?

 

And anyway, my body and dignity are precious to me.

Edited January 8, 2010 by LG Gone Wild

[4kiddies]

Ben Franklin

 

 

Different time/different place. It's like comparing apples and oranges. It not a valid arguement on the issue.

[Mynyel]

Different time/different place. It's like comparing apples and oranges. It not a valid arguement on the issue.

 

 

Our Constitution was from the same era...is that not valid anymore? Just wondering.....:001_huh:

 

I realize that this is just an opinion but regardless of who and when this was said it still is valid. This wasn't a quote about clothes or shoes or anything else that changes every year. This was about freedom and safety and that has been a concern since time began. Should we say quotes from people last year are invalid because it was a different time/different place? Things this year are extremely different than last.

 

Again...my opinion :hugs:

Edited January 8, 2010 by Mynyel
Spelling :)

[4kiddies]

Our Constitution was from the same era...is that not valid anymore? Just wondering.....:001_huh:

 

Of course not. Again, not the issue.

[Kirch]

The other, I read an article that said minors would NOT be scanned. I don't remember where it was - prolly on CBC or something - but it appeared to be a firm statement.

 

Not sure about how I feel about full-body scanning in the first place, but if it were to be effective at all, this seems stupid to me. I would be willing to bet that a prime recruitment population for these groups is young men who are 16-17 yrs. old. And I would also bet that the leaders would have no problem whatsoever with taking advantage of these young men if such a loophole were left open to them.

[mcconnellboys]

I guess I don't see this as "public nakedness". Perhaps if the scanning image was out in the open for any and all to see, simultaneously with the actual person undergoing the scan, then I would feel different. But I tend to think that people will be walking through a device that screens them from the only person viewing the scan - and that person will be looking only at one scan after another, not the actual people represented in those scans. As fast as they will need to move people through the scanners, I hardly think there will be time to savor anyone's nakedness.

[Quad Shot Academy]

I was flying out of Tulsa, Ok and got "the full work-up". I was forced into a machine. (When the male guard told me that I had to go through the scanner, I considered leaving the airport and renting a car to drive home, but he blocked my path of leaving the line, so I am pretty sure that to have gotten out of line, he would have had me arrested or held.) All of my stuff was taken away from me; I was escorted to this machine. On a raised platform there were several men looking at computer screens. I was then escorted to a separate area, away from all other passengers, all of my bags were emptied onto tables and each and every item was picked up, opened and sorted through. I was right below the men on the raised platform and they were looking at me laughing and talking to each other. I have no idea if they were the ones looking at the body scans or not, but the whole time, that was all I could think of. I was thoroughly questioned about my life, who I was, where I was going, why, where I was coming from, why I was there, why I was leaving. Then my purse tested positive for "something" and one of the men from the platform came down. I was a million shades of red, trembling and sweating by then. All I could think was how my property was out of my sight and they could have done anything to it. I was thoroughly questioned again and then sent on my way. That was 6 months ago and every time this subject comes up, I see those men laughing and talking and I feel assaulted. I may never fly again.

[tricia]

Oh I just love giving away my freedoms one by one in the name of "homeland security." Even if that means being seen stark naked in front of a total stranger. Seems the last I checked the terrorists are coming from other countries and NOT from our own homeland. But for some reason, certain people don't seem to understand that fact and find great joy in stripping our country of all our rights and freedoms. Because after all, how on earth can you control a nation where the people can think and act for themselves. Good thing we have Big Brother to do that for us.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I guess I'm pretty pragmatic about such things. A body is a body is a body, ya know?

 

I think it would be considerate for them to have a women's lane and a men's lane, with same sex scanners viewing the images. But really, I don't know the scanners and will never know them. They will be viewing hundreds to thousands of bodies a day. I would think that they would be profiled before hiring to prevent putting perverts into such positions. And after a short time of seeing so many bodies, even if they are viewing both sexes, I think for most people a body will become a body, a body, a body....

 

:iagree::iagree:

You can think of medical personnel as well. It is a part of their job.

[Slartibartfast]

No! I do NOT like it!

 

And I don't care if the person doesn't really care and has been looking at naked people all day. IMO it violates my right to privacy.

 

I have the right not to be naked in front of strangers.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Sis

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

No! I do NOT like it!

 

I don't like it either, but I can choose not to fly:) OTOH It would make be feel a bit more secure knowing that everyone was screened since unfortunately the bad guys are not always obvious IMHO. I just want them to maintain discreetness. I do wonder though if they use x-rays and how much and so forth.

[Slartibartfast]

Different time/different place. It's like comparing apples and oranges. It not a valid arguement on the issue.

 

I don't think I could possibly disagree more.

[Slartibartfast]

I don't like it either, but I can choose not to fly:) OTOH It would make be feel a bit more secure knowing that everyone was screened since unfortunately the bad guys are not always obvious IMHO. I just want them to maintain discreetness. I do wonder though if they use x-rays and how much and so forth.

 

 

Discreetness?? How?? Would I know that a woman was who was looking at me? How would I know they are not taking their cellphones in with them and posting pics online?

 

If someone tried to make me go through one of those I would refuse.

 

This is a violation of Privacy.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/24/us/24scan.html

Edited January 9, 2010 by Sis

[orangearrow]

I already don't want to fly because it's become such a PITA to do so. This will concrete the issue for me. No way, no how would I volunteer myself or my children to go through a scanner like that. Not going to happen.

[Mynyel]

You can think of medical personnel as well. It is a part of their job.

 

When I go to a medical Doctor I usually have something wrong with me or need a check-up. Not just to get on a plane to fly somewhere.

 

Medical personnel go to lots and lots of school and pay lots and lots of money to get a Doctorate or a nursing degree. They are getting paid a bit more to be professional.

The people who will be screening will more than likely be low wage workers (not disparaging low wage workers, I am one myself...oh wait I am unemployed so they make more than me! :D). It isn't the same at all as a medical professional.

 

Now granted after day after day and month after month they would get bored with it, however that still isn't really the point (well unless it is a minor and that was addressed before). My point is how many more freedoms are we going to get taken away for national security.

 

The only way to truly keep our country safe is to act on information given. To subject everyday citizens to scrutiny like Quad Shot Academy went though is abhorrent. That shouldn't be happening.

 

Profiling is a dangerous subject I know however there are clues and certain things to look for, granny and mom with kids aren't some of them. Truth is there isn't going to be anyway to truly know if anything is going to happen, no matter what security measures are there someone somewhere will try and succeed to get thorough. It may take time but it will happen. Meanwhile we go on like lemmings and just follow what the government tells us is good for us. Yea and they know what they are doing.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Mynyel
/sigh spelling

[Rhonda in TX]

I don't like it either, but I can choose not to fly

 

Thankfully we like car trips.

 

There may come a day where we will be in a situation where we have to fly, but we will no longer do "casual" flying. This whole thing infuriates me. They screwed up, so we have to suffer. Give me a break.

[JeneralMom]

As someone who has been held at a border as suspicious, I can honestly say, I would rather go through a full body scan than have to go through that again...and, I had my kids, my dog, my husband, am not from a "suspicious" population. I am now on the terrorist watch list and have to bring all my documents with me if I leave the US and want to come back in (includes my birth certificate, passport, marriage certificate) so I feel that my freedom was taken away long ago. Want to know why? Because I am originally Canadian, got my US passport, then traveled with my family back to Canada, discovered at the US border on the way back that I had accidentally picked up my Canadian passport only (I am dual) and was honest with the border guard - and this was way before a passport was mandated for travel between the US and Canada by car. The interrogation was much more invasive than a scan would be.

[Amy loves Bud]

According to this article, it's going to solve a lot of our nation's problems.

 

 

:lol:

[LG Gone Wild]

I guess I don't see this as "public nakedness". Perhaps if the scanning image was out in the open for any and all to see, simultaneously with the actual person undergoing the scan, then I would feel different. But I tend to think that people will be walking through a device that screens them from the only person viewing the scan - and that person will be looking only at one scan after another, not the actual people represented in those scans. As fast as they will need to move people through the scanners, I hardly think there will be time to savor anyone's nakedness.

 

LOL! Well, it's not private like between me and my chosen, trusted physician. I find it galling that peoples' privacy and dignity are stripped away in front of some government employee who can't be trusted to sit the right way on a toilet seat (- Rowan Atkinson) under some false pretense of security.

 

YMMV

Edited January 9, 2010 by LG Gone Wild

[Slartibartfast]

According to this article, it's going to solve a lot of our nation's problems.

 

 

:lol:

 

:lol:

[stripe]

I don't like it either, but I can choose not to fly:)

This is not a decision taken lightly by those who have family (or business) on the other side of the country/world. Not everyone can take days or weeks to travel.

[Laurie4b]

:iagree::iagree:

You can think of medical personnel as well. It is a part of their job.

 

I've been molested by a physician as a teen and once I began to talk about it, found about 1/3 of my close friends had as well (not the same guy--but having someone getting sexual pleasure in some way from a medical exam.) Just because someone's job involves viewing naked bodies doesn't make them immune to sexualizing it.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Laurie4b

[tricia]

According to this article, it's going to solve a lot of our nation's problems.

 

 

:lol:

 

Just wondering if this post is supposed to be sarcastic?!! No pun intended, just curious. I read the article and all I could come up with is the same conclusion I got way back in January 09 and that is that our president is indeed a complete moron. Reading this article just affirms that.

[Slartibartfast]

Just wondering if this post is supposed to be sarcastic?!! No pun intended, just curious. I read the article and all I could come up with is the same conclusion I got way back in January 09 and that is that our president is indeed a complete moron. Reading this article just affirms that.

 

That article is obviously a joke.

 

I am surprised to see a Constitutional Law professor and former President of the Harvard Law Review described as a "moron." Sure people disagree with him (think he is a communist, socialist and the Antichrist) but moron? Really?

Edited January 9, 2010 by Sis

[Amy loves Bud]

Just wondering if this post is supposed to be sarcastic?!! No pun intended, just curious. I read the article and all I could come up with is the same conclusion I got way back in January 09 and that is that our president is indeed a complete moron. Reading this article just affirms that.

 

Yes, it's satire. I should have been more clear - I thought the laugh out loud smilie would do it.

[astrid]

.......DOGS.

 

(they love to sniff crotches, anyway! :D)

 

But seriously.......dogs. Low-tech, and EXTREMELY effective.

 

astrid

[staceyobu]

I disagree, just how much freedom can we and should we give up in the name of "national security"?

 

Correct me if I am wrong but this guy that had the bomb in his BVD's didn't board the plane in the USA so why are we in the USA having to succumb to more security measures that I personally find disturbing.

I have a 12 yo daughter that I do not want going through those machines. I don't care where they put them...another room..another country! There are going to be people looking at these and I don't like it.

What is next? Full body searches? You may think that extreme but even a few years ago these machines would have been extreme.

 

I will not sit by and give up any more freedoms. I did not bomb anything, I have never even though that way. The majority of America doesn't think that way yet we are all treated like the criminals when they come down with these policies.

 

They need to get their own act together and go after the bad guys instead of subjecting all the average normal people to things like scans and pat downs.

 

*steps off soap box*

 

My opinion....:grouphug:

 

:iagree:

 

Seriously. The last time I flew, I saw them pulling a lady who looked about 115 years old out of a wheelchair and trying to make her stand so they could pat her down. Apparently, a better way to spend time would be to check the no fly lists a little closer. And pay attention to the information the FBI, CIA, and every other government entity with initials already had. We're wasting our time.

[MamaSheep]

I get to choose my medical professionals. Each time I'm in the exam room I get to look those people in the eye and decide whether I'm really comfortable being seen naked by them, and I can walk out at any time I am not comfortable. Furthermore, my medical professionals don't generally require that I be naked for an exam. I can usually wear either my street clothes or a hospital gown, and only expose the portion of my body that I want them to check.

 

Will I get the same courtesy at the airport? Can I choose my screener? Can I look him/her in they eye and make a judgment about my comfort level? Can I leave at any time I am not fully comfortable? Will they allow me only to expose body parts of my choice to their scrutiny?

 

It's not the same thing at all.

 

I am not completely opposed to nudity. I have an art degree and in order to obtain it I took several drawing courses in which most of my time was spent sketching nude models, and I know from personal experience that a person can stare at naked human bodies in minute detail for an extended period of time and have no sexual connection at all. It might as well be a vase of flowers or a bowl of fruit (except much more complex and subtle).

 

I am not uncomfortable being completely nude in appropriate circumstances myself, even with other people around and looking at me.

 

BUT!

 

My body is MY body. I have a right to decide who does what with my body. It does not belong to government bureaucrats. It does not belong to Barak Obama. It is MY body, and I will make decisions regarding who gets to see it, how much of it they get to see, and under what circumstances. I am not willing to give that up.

Edited January 9, 2010 by MamaSheep