Shouting is the new spanking?

[sunshine]

Hmm. I yell and then I tell them not to yell at each other. I am such a hypocrite as my ds18 points out with regularity! I must say that the yelling for the most part in the last year or so has gone the other way to the low, controlled voice that everyone has to be quiet to hear. But I dont' like my tone then either. Oh to be the perfect parent with no regrets. I know there is such a thing because whenever I see a parent with children under 5 who are full of selfcontrol and singing KumBaYa, holding hands and telling me how to raise children, I understand that my 22 years of raising mine, yours and the State's kids has taught me not a thing!

Edited October 23, 2009 by sunshine
changed my tone!! :)

[SonshineLearner]

Maybe it's a bit like everything else to me. First, I think that either are personal decisions. One parent raises their voice more, one does more spanking, one does more time-outs.... And, I would NEVER think that my way would work for everyone else. I mean, I've seen kids that never need spanked... ones where they melt if you look at them harshly... and ones where you can spank and yell... and they just don't care. And, I've seen these kids in the same family, not because of environment only.. but because of their personality.

To me, we should give each other breaks, realizing that are children are borne (or adopted to) us. WE are the parents... the ones to decide what is appropriate to our family. I nursed my children until they are older... wore them... cloth diapered them... didn't cut off any body parts... (of my son:-) and if you did exactly the opposite... that's your decision, and it's not my job to patrol you.

SO... if your kid is naughty and you're yelling "DO good things!! Obey Mama etc...." then it's your right:-) Now... if you're yelling mean things... I might offer YOU a time out:-) and a coffee or candy bar:-)

Carrie:-)

[Joanne]

I have yet to find a positive parenting writer that speaks to me. But I know I hate the disresepct i hear. From the horrible Mom Song to this.

 

Coloroso?

Kurcinka?

Dr. Bailey?

Dr. Campell?

Scott Turnanky/Joanne Miller?

The Clarksons are nearly pp. ;)

Faber and Mazlish?

Gordon?

Ginott?

Dreikurs?

(Aside note: I am doing one of my end of term papers on the counseling/psychological theory of Adler who inspired Dreikurs)

Popcak?

Jane Nelsen?

Sears?

Pantley?

 

I don't completely wrap my ideas in any of those, but use parts of each.

 

I'm not a Kohn fan, either. He never makes my list. LOL

:lol:

 

I have to admit, though, I like the term positive *discipline* rather than positive parenting which, in pp circles, now implies less coercion than I am comfortable with.

[Peela]

The upside of this? When we were in high school we would come home and say "the band director was so upset, he started yelling at everyone, hit his music stand and paper clips flew everywhere, it was hilarious!" While my mom's friends had kids who came home and cried. My mom felt our family had better prepared us for the world.

 

Exactly. I don't really promote yelling, but it happens a bit around here at times....and honestly, I dont think it's so big a deal.

 

I sometimes wonder what happens to kids who are never smacked or yelled at...do they curl up into a little ball when someone yells at them? Does it roll off like water off a ducks back, or does it really impact them?

 

I am all for making sure kids respect themselves, but the yelling works both ways around here- when the kids get really emotional, upset, or feel we are treating them unfairly, they might yell too. I am personally glad they feel supported and loved enough that they can do that and not fear being beaten or rejected. We can all handle it.

 

I am not saying I think its ideal...I am just not going to lose sleep over it.

[LibraryLover]

Coloroso?

Kurcinka?

Dr. Bailey?

Dr. Campell?

Scott Turnanky/Joanne Miller?

The Clarksons are nearly pp. ;)

Faber and Mazlish?

Gordon?

Ginott?

Dreikurs?

(Aside note: I am doing one of my end of term papers on the counseling/psychological theory of Adler who inspired Dreikurs)

Popcak?

Jane Nelsen?

Sears?

Pantley?

 

I don't completely wrap my ideas in any of those, but use parts of each.

 

I'm not a Kohn fan, either. He never makes my list. LOL

:lol:

 

I have to admit, though, I like the term positive *discipline* rather than positive parenting which, in pp circles, now implies less coercion than I am comfortable with.

 

 

Coloroso. She speaks to me.

 

Ftr, I am very confident in my parenting, and I am not (currently) in need, or searching.

Edited October 26, 2009 by LibraryLover

[Tree House Academy]

I come from a family of yellers. However, we yell *all the time*! My husband is always saying "why are you yelling?" And I say "I'm not yelling, I'm just expressing emotion!" We have loud voices to begin with, that doesn't help (a speech therapist told my aunt it is due to our very high palates).

 

The upside of this? When we were in high school we would come home and say "the band director was so upset, he started yelling at everyone, hit his music stand and paper clips flew everywhere, it was hilarious!" While my mom's friends had kids who came home and cried. My mom felt our family had better prepared us for the world.

 

LOL This is US to a "T." My older son talks so loudly that he has had his hearing checked by ps teachers. Never a problem...he is just a loud talker. So am I, so is his dad, so is my mom and so is my dad.

 

I have a similar story - one day in Karate, the instructor yelled at the kids. My son and several others just stopped talking while two kids in the front of the room started sobbing. One of them had to leave class. Afterwards, I asked my son about it and he said, "He didn't yell mom, he just raised his voice a little." (You could hear his voice in the parking lot.) :lol:

[Tree House Academy]

We do "long distance homeschooling" from room to room, so yeah, there's yelling. Also, when he goes too ADD, sometimes I LITERALLY jump up and down, wave my arms, and shout for his attention--sometimes, it's the only way to break through the wall of noise--that he's generating both physically and mentally!

 

We bark orders like a drill sergeant here on occasion. That, timers, and checklists are the only things that get DS MOVING.

 

Dealing with a child who has ADD or ADHD changes things a bit, I think. My older son and I are like oil and water in the way we clash. I can't stand to be disrespected to the point of him standing and yelling in my face and when that happens, I have been known to yell back. I won't be backed in a corner by anyone, much less, my child. He loses control of himself at times and can stop whining, screaming, yelling, and consequences have to come....which causes more screaming, yelling, whining, and more consequences...you see where this is going. It is tough to parent in general, but super tough when your child is a challenge (maybe even moreso when said child's bio father is absent for 335 days a year).

[Joanne]

Coloroso. She speaks to me.

 

My kids are 10- nearly 21. But she rocks.

 

Ftr, I am very confident in my parenting, and I am not (currently) in need, or searching.

 

I wasn't implying you needed help, if that's what you thought. I was just trying to have a conversation about positive parenting authors. :)

 

I like Coloroso also.

[mom31257]

I agree with Peela. I don't think it's a very big deal. My parents yelled at us and each other, and spanked us. We all turned out just fine. My parents have been married 49 years. It didn't lead to them being divorced or us feeling rejected or unloved. Our family is VERY close. In a lot of ways we're closer than my husband's family who hardly expresses their emotions at all. BTW, I have the best MIL in the world...she rarely tells you how she feels about hardly anything.

 

I don't want to yell at my kids, but if I do or if I think I handled something wrong, I just go and apologize. They need to know that we all mess up, and when you do, you make it right.

 

I do think that our homes should be peaceful places, and ours is most all the time. But nobody is perfect, and I wish the psychologists of the world would quit trying to make us all feel like we have to be.

[Joanne]

I agree with Peela. I don't think it's a very big deal. My parents yelled at us and each other, and spanked us. We all turned out just fine. My parents have been married 49 years. It didn't lead to them being divorced or us feeling rejected or unloved. Our family is VERY close. In a lot of ways we're closer than my husband's family who hardly expresses their emotions at all. BTW, I have the best MIL in the world...she rarely tells you how she feels about hardly anything.

 

I don't want to yell at my kids, but if I do or if I think I handled something wrong, I just go and apologize. They need to know that we all mess up, and when you do, you make it right.

 

I do think that our homes should be peaceful places, and ours is most all the time. But nobody is perfect, and I wish the psychologists of the world would quit trying to make us all feel like we have to be.

 

I don't think the article or anyone here (or, indeed, anyone reasonable) is positing that within normal limits yelling, spanking, or even mistakes will cause divorce, lack of love, rejection or major issues.

 

I don't know about the pressure. I do know that there is more literature, more advice, more information. We also live in a more complicated world. I'm not sure where the pressure to be perfect comes from, but I don't think it's from psychologists or even child experts. All the authors and professionals I've known and read expect mistakes, flawed, real, authentic families.

[Lovedtodeath]

My mother didn't yell at us, but she shouted her unhappiness while she cleaned up the dinner dishes. Think of it: up since 6, three meals made, a pack of children, which she raised with cloth diapers and a ringer washer and for most of it no drier, no perma-press (think of ironing the sheets), floors you had to strip and wax, etc. etc. etc. My very smart father helped her and said "Yes dear, no dear" while she told the universe in general how put upon she was.

 

We kids took this as the "time to go to your room and do your homework" signal. I thought nothing of it. It was just something Mommy did between 7 and 7:30. Once we were all above 12 or so, it stopped. She had less work, and was not so frazzled by the end of the day.

 

Just today I listened to at least 3 women scream and shout. Swear words. Spit. Ho Hum. I appreciate the thick skin my mother gave me. And that evening shout probably did her some good, too. There was no internet to vent on!

Maybe I should try that!:tongue_smilie:

 

Poor reporting, bad logic, connecting dots that are not connected.

 

1) Statistics show that most parents spank.

 

2) The article assumes that without spanking, the parent doesn't have discipline and gets overwhelmed, and yells "instead".

 

It's the same (flawed) logic I've seen in spanking discussions on the net. "I'd rather a swat on the bottom than screaming."

 

Those are NOT the choices.

 

The article misrepresents parents in general and patronizes.

 

The issue, IMO, with parenting is the presense of an over-punitive or permissive setting. Overly punitive/adversarial parents have developmentally inappropriate expectations and believe punishment will extinguish behavior. Permissive parents expect children will effectively grow out of stages. Both are wrong. Permissive parents often explode periodically into spanking, yelling, or other ineffective responses. Punitive parents aren't bad because of the specific techniques used (spanking, time outs, raising voice) but the frequency, motives behind and the tone created by their use.

 

The article is poor and fails to address the real issues involved in quality (or not) parenting.

I appreciate your input Joanne!

 

I'm a yeller. And I don't feel guilty about it one bit. If I didn't yell, my kids wouldn't hear a word I said.

 

I don't spank. And its not as if I'm yelling obscenities at them or telling them I hate them, for crying out loud.

 

I am the parent. I reserve the right to yell if it needs to be done.

:iagree:This is what I tell DD. ;) My voice is not loud. If DD or DH have anyone to talk to or any talking to do, I have to yell to be heard period.

[Tree House Academy]

I don't think the article or anyone here (or, indeed, anyone reasonable) is positing that within normal limits yelling, spanking, or even mistakes will cause divorce, lack of love, rejection or major issues.

 

I disagree. I think the article is saying that parents are now trying not to spank as much, so they are yelling more. Either way it goes, they are portrayed negatively. I think the posters here are attempting to show that it can be used effectively and not damage the child for life.

[Reya]

Dealing with a child who has ADD or ADHD changes things a bit, I think. My older son and I are like oil and water in the way we clash. I can't stand to be disrespected to the point of him standing and yelling in my face and when that happens, I have been known to yell back. I won't be backed in a corner by anyone, much less, my child. He loses control of himself at times and can stop whining, screaming, yelling, and consequences have to come....which causes more screaming, yelling, whining, and more consequences...you see where this is going. It is tough to parent in general, but super tough when your child is a challenge (maybe even moreso when said child's bio father is absent for 335 days a year).

 

Oh, for that, I tell him to drop and give me push-ups. (He's never screamed in my face, but he has tried to whine. A LOT. And giving him additional consequences just makes the whining worse.) Can't whine and do push ups at the same time. It's the BEST thing I've found! :-P I tried standing in the corner, but that takes more time and interrupts what he's supposed to be doing too much. The push ups are a focus tool way more than a punishment, per se.

 

(And yes, we even make him stand at attention sometimes, too! There IS no in-between flapping and twirling and at attention on some days, I'm afraid!)

 

No, I mean just yelling to get his attention, quite literally, not yelling out of any emotion. It can be that hard to get and keep.

 

Me: "HEY!!! KIDDO!!! Me, I'm talking to you! Did you hear what I just said?"

 

DS, blinking and finally focusing on me: "What?"

 

There's a reason I make checklists for him that tell him to go to the bathroom.

[Reya]

Yes. And that paradigm does exist. It's often an amalgam of "positive parenting" authors, writers, thinker and leaders, although some parents embrace one author over another.

 

I don't assume the "tug of war", "battle", "battle of wills", "assumption of negative intent" or "willfullness" in parenting dilemmas and challenges.

 

That's because none of your kids were ME.

 

This is me with all the rough edges rounded off. :-) Imagine what I was like BEFORE....

 

Listen, I ended up with a broken wrist, an inch-long piece of glass embedded in my feet, and large second degree burns on my knees that left me scarred for life out of sheer willfulness. I know it was willfulness because I REMEMBER each incident with crystal clarity, though I was three at the last of them. It was only after the third that I realized that maaaaaybe doing things just because my mother had told me not to do them miiiiiiiiight not be such a good idea, after all.

 

Really, I'm lucky I didn't kill myself.

 

I don't believe that children's needs are malicious or anything like that. I don't believe that infants are trying to manipulate their mothers. I also don't believe manipulation is all bad--getting Mom to play a baby's favorite game is a type of manipulation, and that's fine. But there is an urge in some children to do the forbidden because it is forbidden and in ALL children to push boundaries. Firm boundaries leads to a stable child. Lack of choice, though, is just as harmful as a lack of boundaries!

 

You may not let the kid choose what he drinks for dinner, but you should always let him choose the color of his cup.

[Joanne]

I disagree. I think the article is saying that parents are now trying not to spank as much, so they are yelling more. Either way it goes, they are portrayed negatively. I think the posters here are attempting to show that it can be used effectively and not damage the child for life.

 

I think the article sucks. :D

 

Last time I researched, it was true that spanking parents were still more than 90% used it to some degree.

 

And, I don't see any research or evidence that families are yelling more, let alone yelling because they are spanking less.

 

I think the article was patronizing to all parents, had a skewed representation of parents and was inaccurate.

 

And, again, I don't believe that spanking less = yelling more.

[Joanne]

That's because none of your kids were ME.

 

This is me with all the rough edges rounded off. :-) Imagine what I was like BEFORE....

 

Listen, I ended up with a broken wrist, an inch-long piece of glass embedded in my feet, and large second degree burns on my knees that left me scarred for life out of sheer willfulness. I know it was willfulness because I REMEMBER each incident with crystal clarity, though I was three at the last of them. It was only after the third that I realized that maaaaaybe doing things just because my mother had told me not to do them miiiiiiiiight not be such a good idea, after all.

 

Really, I'm lucky I didn't kill myself.

 

I don't believe that children's needs are malicious or anything like that. I don't believe that infants are trying to manipulate their mothers. I also don't believe manipulation is all bad--getting Mom to play a baby's favorite game is a type of manipulation, and that's fine. But there is an urge in some children to do the forbidden because it is forbidden and in ALL children to push boundaries. Firm boundaries leads to a stable child. Lack of choice, though, is just as harmful as a lack of boundaries!

 

You may not let the kid choose what he drinks for dinner, but you should always let him choose the color of his cup.

 

I can't argue about you and your history, Reya. I can accurately assert, however, that my parenting ideas aren't because I didn't have a challenging child.

 

I didn't come to my understanding of parenting and discipline because all my kids were easy, compliant, cooperative or willing.

 

I'm glad you survived your childhood.

[OnTheBrink]

I can't stand yelling. My mother was a screamer (and hitter, and thrower and name caller). My EX was a screamer (and shover, thrower, and name caller). I honestly think I suffer from PTSD, or some form of it. If someone starts yelling, I literally get teary eyed, tense and look for an escape hatch. I don't mean yelling like at a ball game, I mean angry yelling. I have a friend who is a single mom w/3 young boys and she is ALWAYS yelling at them. I have gotten to the point where I can not be around her, at all. My blood pressure just can't take it. I get so tense, I get sick to my stomach.

 

The only yelling that gets done around here is if Dd is in the basement and I want her to bring up the laundry or something. And that's more of a "hollering" than "yelling." I just want her to hear me; I'm not angry.

[funschooler5]

I just recently (as in about 6 weeks ago) consciously and drastically cut down on the yelling thing. The strange thing is that I'm not finding much to yell about anymore.

 

Did you have some sort of strategy when you stopped yelling? I've been trying to stop. I've had a problem with it for awhile now, and I every time I tell myself "I'm not going to yell today", something happens that sets me off.

 

It's strange, because when my kids were younger, I never yelled. Our house was a lot more peaceful. We did add one more kid to the mix, but she's not the one that gets yelled at. My yelling is a pretty recent thing. My son (who has SPD and probably some form of ADD...he's being evaluated in a few weeks) gets the brunt of it. He just doesn't seem to hear anything unless I'm yelling. It's gotten to be so much of a habit, my older DD gets yelled at too. I just don't know how I got to this point, and I want to stop.

 

If anyone has any suggestions, let me know. I mean, I know the obvious answer is to just stop yelling, but in the heat of the moment, are there any steps I can take before I lose it and start hollering?

[Joanne]

If anyone has any suggestions, let me know. I mean, I know the obvious answer is to just stop yelling, but in the heat of the moment, are there any steps I can take before I lose it and start hollering?

 

Some ideas....(these have worked here because of our life situation, please don't take offense if they are not an issue in your home)

 

Limit screen time (for everyone). It seems here that too much screen time means not enough structure, too much tv that has "attitude content", too much junk food (sorry Reya, it does effect behavior here), chores, work and other things are not getting done which makes me more edgy.

 

Go play. Make the kids go outside and play. Play at the park. Play in the backyard. Play somewhere. Play together, play separate but play!

 

Have structureLong breaks from school, a haphazard homemaking schedule, lack of plans for chores, library, grocery shopping........they increase stress (and screen time) and make me more prone to yell.

 

Eat well, sleep well, move! Stress reducers.

 

Have a satisfactory intimate life Stress reducer

 

Connect first, correct 2ndIn the moment, try to connect through touch, eye contact, words, *something* that reminds you they are yours and you love them.

 

Bond, playfulness, affectionIn the habits of feeling good about your kids, it's harder to yell. Make affection and playfulness a habit.

 

Tell yourself that yelling is hitting with words. This is true even if the words are not unkind, abusive, shaming. The volume alone hurts some people.

 

Pray (or meditiate or visualize)

 

Change the toneKids can learn just as easily if you are goofy, silly, playful as they can if you are stern and loud. When something is building, do a silly dance, sing a stupid song (I make some up about the issue at hand).

 

Know your triggers Is it mess? Noise? Frantic activity around you? Them not giving you s p a c e? Find out what bothers you most, minimize it, be honest with your kids about it and make plans as a family to avoid that. If it's not reasonable to avoid that trigger, you may need some additional help.

 

 

 

As a result of this thread, I reinstituted an old tactic I've used successfully before: Code Words. My kids have a code word for me when my tone gets disrespectul or they feel hurt. They can't over use this to get out of chores, school work, etc. They can only use it when I have crossed a line with my approach.

 

And I have a code word for each of them instead of nagging.

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=16

[tex-mex]

Just today I listened to at least 3 women scream and shout. Swear words. Spit. Ho Hum. I appreciate the thick skin my mother gave me. And that evening shout probably did her some good, too. There was no internet to vent on!

 

I come from a entire generation of yellers (mom, sisters, aunts, cousins, grandparents...) where we just emotional. One minute they were yelling, cussing, and the next... LAUGHTER and HUGS. I remember being in grade school and some yahoo said something incredibly rude about my skin color -- I just up and decked him. Couldn't figure out why that was wrong. LOL

 

Skip to myself as a young adult in the world on her own at 17 yrs old -- taken aback that the rest of the world did not behave this way. LOL I don't yell like my family did nor get emotional. But I sure had to re-learn social skills -- and I do appreciate growing up and developing a thick skin. I laugh at some of the things folks get so upset over... :confused: And yes, it was a good thing I was raised before the internet. Lawd knows I would have started WWIII with my thick skinned language as a kid. Today, folks meet me and get shocked when they learn of my childhood and how sweet I am. God can work miracles!

Edited October 23, 2009 by tex-mex

[Laura Corin]

Poor reporting, bad logic, connecting dots that are not connected.

 

1) Statistics show that most parents spank.

 

2) The article assumes that without spanking, the parent doesn't have discipline and gets overwhelmed, and yells "instead".

 

It's the same (flawed) logic I've seen in spanking discussions on the net. "I'd rather a swat on the bottom than screaming."

 

Those are NOT the choices.

 

The article misrepresents parents in general and patronizes.

 

The issue, IMO, with parenting is the presense of an over-punitive or permissive setting. Overly punitive/adversarial parents have developmentally inappropriate expectations and believe punishment will extinguish behavior. Permissive parents expect children will effectively grow out of stages. Both are wrong. Permissive parents often explode periodically into spanking, yelling, or other ineffective responses. Punitive parents aren't bad because of the specific techniques used (spanking, time outs, raising voice) but the frequency, motives behind and the tone created by their use.

 

The article is poor and fails to address the real issues involved in quality (or not) parenting.

 

I do yell occasionally, but always apologise. It's not a parentlng strategy, just a response to being tired. The children know that and react accordingly, just as I try to see when their misbehaviour is largely due to tiredness.

 

Laura

[Blessedfamily]

Well, this is the topic of the Morning News. The article must be spreading. It is on The Early Show on CBS right now.

[unsinkable]

From todays New York Times.

 

It struck a chord with me as my mother was a major yeller when I was growing up. History does not repeat itself. There is no yelling aloud in my house.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/fashion/22yell.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=screaming&st=cse

 

This is either a really funny typo or yelling inside your head is allowed at your house.

[LibraryLover]

I wasn't implying you needed help, if that's what you thought. I was just trying to have a conversation about positive parenting authors. :)

 

I like Coloroso also.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Kids-Are-Worth-Giving-Discipline/dp/0060014318/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256304845&sr=1-1

 

 

No, I didn't really think that. I'd love more talk about gentle and postive parenting authors as well.

 

That would be nice!

 

I like Coloroso because she respects kids but doesn't think they don't need guidance. She's real. Someone else I love is Eda Leshan. She wrote the book When Your Child Drives You Crazy. She is so positive and loving, while at the same time giving parents words to say that make sense to a child.

 

She also wrote a fantastic essay called The Sesame Street Syndrome: Let Them Eat Words. She turned it into a book, but I think it works best as an essay. It was more concise.

[Lovedtodeath]

I think the article sucks. :D

 

Last time I researched, it was true that spanking parents were still more than 90% used it to some degree.

 

And, I don't see any research or evidence that families are yelling more, let alone yelling because they are spanking less.

 

I think the article was patronizing to all parents, had a skewed representation of parents and was inaccurate.

 

And, again, I don't believe that spanking less = yelling more.

I do think that most people I know are either permissive=spoiling their kids and then spank as a last resort, or permissive=neglecting their kids and use spanking more than any other parenting tool. I know that the more permissive I am the more I yell, but I don't spank. It. does. not. work. for my kids. My DD gets ultra rage and DS just does not understand. I am glad I figured that out.

 

My siblings and I were spanked, yelled at, hit in various places with various items. I am sure of one thing: Punishments and spankings did not reduce the yelling in that house.

[LauraGB]

I think the article was patronizing to all parents, had a skewed representation of parents and was inaccurate.

 

 

That's what I think, too. I found it insulting parenthood, actually. A story in the newspaper about how parents ought to feel guilty and bad for yelling at thier children. (I made my point earlier about difference between yelling and yelling) I can think of several, much bigger choices I may end up regretting as a parent on the road to helping to produce a good, decent, productive human, and yelling just isn't high enough on my list.

 

It actually made me think of the story last year where the Canadian dad grounded his 12 year old daughter from using the internet and she took him to court. I mean, come on. Talk about a twist of parental rights.

[stripe]

I also noticed the article's assumptions. Eg it assumes that smacking was effective, when in fact there has never been even 1 single piece of research showing any positive effects for smacking.

Although I did find the discussion of spanking in NurtureShock to be interesting -- specifically that one's cultural / personal attitude towards it (is it the ULTIMATE and somewhat forbidden punishment, as tends to be the case among self-described "progressive" sorts of parents, or just a normal sort of punishment, without taboo, as is the case among most African Americans and evangelical Christians). The outcome seems to be quite different, specifically that it's more effective among the latter group because it's not such a BIG DEAL.

 

I'd have to imagine that there's some weird things going on when a child knows a parent is doing something he/she thinks is wrong. ;)

[funschooler5]

Some ideas....(these have worked here because of our life situation, please don't take offense if they are not an issue in your home)

 

Limit screen time (for everyone). It seems here that too much screen time means not enough structure, too much tv that has "attitude content", too much junk food (sorry Reya, it does effect behavior here), chores, work and other things are not getting done which makes me more edgy.

 

Go play. Make the kids go outside and play. Play at the park. Play in the backyard. Play somewhere. Play together, play separate but play!

 

Have structureLong breaks from school, a haphazard homemaking schedule, lack of plans for chores, library, grocery shopping........they increase stress (and screen time) and make me more prone to yell.

 

Eat well, sleep well, move! Stress reducers.

 

Have a satisfactory intimate life Stress reducer

 

Connect first, correct 2ndIn the moment, try to connect through touch, eye contact, words, *something* that reminds you they are yours and you love them.

 

Bond, playfulness, affectionIn the habits of feeling good about your kids, it's harder to yell. Make affection and playfulness a habit.

 

Tell yourself that yelling is hitting with words. This is true even if the words are not unkind, abusive, shaming. The volume alone hurts some people.

 

Pray (or meditiate or visualize)

 

Change the toneKids can learn just as easily if you are goofy, silly, playful as they can if you are stern and loud. When something is building, do a silly dance, sing a stupid song (I make some up about the issue at hand).

 

Know your triggers Is it mess? Noise? Frantic activity around you? Them not giving you s p a c e? Find out what bothers you most, minimize it, be honest with your kids about it and make plans as a family to avoid that. If it's not reasonable to avoid that trigger, you may need some additional help.

 

 

 

As a result of this thread, I reinstituted an old tactic I've used successfully before: Code Words. My kids have a code word for me when my tone gets disrespectul or they feel hurt. They can't over use this to get out of chores, school work, etc. They can only use it when I have crossed a line with my approach.

 

And I have a code word for each of them instead of nagging.

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=16

 

 

Thanks for the tips, Joanne! These are very helpful, especially the one about knowing your triggers. Now that I think about it, I tend to yell about the same things over and over again, so avoiding the situations in the first place would really help. I'm usually yelling when we are running late to get somewhere, or running late doing school work....duh, we could just start a little earlier.

 

This probably seems obvious to a lot of people, but it's funny how when you have a bad habit, you just don't notice when something is wrong.

[8circles]

Some ideas....(these have worked here because of our life situation, please don't take offense if they are not an issue in your home)

 

Limit screen time (for everyone). It seems here that too much screen time means not enough structure, too much tv that has "attitude content", too much junk food (sorry Reya, it does effect behavior here), chores, work and other things are not getting done which makes me more edgy.

 

Go play. Make the kids go outside and play. Play at the park. Play in the backyard. Play somewhere. Play together, play separate but play!

 

Have structureLong breaks from school, a haphazard homemaking schedule, lack of plans for chores, library, grocery shopping........they increase stress (and screen time) and make me more prone to yell.

 

Eat well, sleep well, move! Stress reducers.

 

Have a satisfactory intimate life Stress reducer

 

Connect first, correct 2ndIn the moment, try to connect through touch, eye contact, words, *something* that reminds you they are yours and you love them.

 

Bond, playfulness, affectionIn the habits of feeling good about your kids, it's harder to yell. Make affection and playfulness a habit.

 

Tell yourself that yelling is hitting with words. This is true even if the words are not unkind, abusive, shaming. The volume alone hurts some people.

 

Pray (or meditiate or visualize)

 

Change the toneKids can learn just as easily if you are goofy, silly, playful as they can if you are stern and loud. When something is building, do a silly dance, sing a stupid song (I make some up about the issue at hand).

 

Know your triggers Is it mess? Noise? Frantic activity around you? Them not giving you s p a c e? Find out what bothers you most, minimize it, be honest with your kids about it and make plans as a family to avoid that. If it's not reasonable to avoid that trigger, you may need some additional help.

 

 

 

As a result of this thread, I reinstituted an old tactic I've used successfully before: Code Words. My kids have a code word for me when my tone gets disrespectul or they feel hurt. They can't over use this to get out of chores, school work, etc. They can only use it when I have crossed a line with my approach.

 

And I have a code word for each of them instead of nagging.

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=16

 

Thank you for this Joanne! Very helpful!

[Jana]

Some ideas....(these have worked here because of our life situation, please don't take offense if they are not an issue in your home)

 

Limit screen time (for everyone). It seems here that too much screen time means not enough structure, too much tv that has "attitude content", too much junk food (sorry Reya, it does effect behavior here), chores, work and other things are not getting done which makes me more edgy.

 

Go play. Make the kids go outside and play. Play at the park. Play in the backyard. Play somewhere. Play together, play separate but play!

 

Have structureLong breaks from school, a haphazard homemaking schedule, lack of plans for chores, library, grocery shopping........they increase stress (and screen time) and make me more prone to yell.

 

Eat well, sleep well, move! Stress reducers.

 

Have a satisfactory intimate life Stress reducer

 

Connect first, correct 2ndIn the moment, try to connect through touch, eye contact, words, *something* that reminds you they are yours and you love them.

 

Bond, playfulness, affectionIn the habits of feeling good about your kids, it's harder to yell. Make affection and playfulness a habit.

 

Tell yourself that yelling is hitting with words. This is true even if the words are not unkind, abusive, shaming. The volume alone hurts some people.

 

Pray (or meditiate or visualize)

 

Change the toneKids can learn just as easily if you are goofy, silly, playful as they can if you are stern and loud. When something is building, do a silly dance, sing a stupid song (I make some up about the issue at hand).

 

Know your triggers Is it mess? Noise? Frantic activity around you? Them not giving you s p a c e? Find out what bothers you most, minimize it, be honest with your kids about it and make plans as a family to avoid that. If it's not reasonable to avoid that trigger, you may need some additional help.

 

 

 

As a result of this thread, I reinstituted an old tactic I've used successfully before: Code Words. My kids have a code word for me when my tone gets disrespectul or they feel hurt. They can't over use this to get out of chores, school work, etc. They can only use it when I have crossed a line with my approach.

 

And I have a code word for each of them instead of nagging.

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=16

 

 

I am a printing this and keeping it. Thanks for posting it. Really.

[Lovedtodeath]

Although I did find the discussion of spanking in NurtureShock to be interesting -- specifically that one's cultural / personal attitude towards it (is it the ULTIMATE and somewhat forbidden punishment, as tends to be the case among self-described "progressive" sorts of parents, or just a normal sort of punishment, without taboo, as is the case among most African Americans and evangelical Christians). The outcome seems to be quite different, specifically that it's more effective among the latter group because it's not such a BIG DEAL.

 

I'd have to imagine that there's some weird things going on when a child knows a parent is doing something he/she thinks is wrong. ;)

IMO, the above applies to yelling as well. If you feel guilty about it and routinely act like it is wrong then it will not be affective... if you do not apologize and tell the kid they needed it, then it is likely more effective.

[kmacnchs]

I can't stand yelling. My mother was a screamer (and hitter, and thrower and name caller). My EX was a screamer (and shover, thrower, and name caller). I honestly think I suffer from PTSD, or some form of it. If someone starts yelling, I literally get teary eyed, tense and look for an escape hatch. I don't mean yelling like at a ball game, I mean angry yelling.

 

Ditto about the PTSD b/c of my dad (yeller, thrower, name caller)

:grouphug:

[Jazzy]

I come from a family of yellers. However, we yell *all the time*! My husband is always saying "why are you yelling?" And I say "I'm not yelling, I'm just expressing emotion!" We have loud voices to begin with, that doesn't help (a speech therapist told my aunt it is due to our very high palates).

 

The upside of this? When we were in high school we would come home and say "the band director was so upset, he started yelling at everyone, hit his music stand and paper clips flew everywhere, it was hilarious!" While my mom's friends had kids who came home and cried. My mom felt our family had better prepared us for the world.

 

:lol:

 

We're a loud family, too.

 

I once tried to act all quiet and talk like Michelle Duggar. My 8 yo said it made him feel sad that no one was laughing and yelling and being happy.

[Reya]

I can't argue about you and your history, Reya. I can accurately assert, however, that my parenting ideas aren't because I didn't have a challenging child.

 

I didn't come to my understanding of parenting and discipline because all my kids were easy, compliant, cooperative or willing.

 

I'm glad you survived your childhood.

 

Then why did you imply that there were NO "battles of the will" in parenting?

 

If that's your default situation, then there have been some serious mistakes (or the child has a serious condition of some sort). But if you think there's never a "tug of war", "battle", "battle of wills", "..negative intent" or "willfullness" at ALL, then your kids might have been hard for you, but they're in another time zone from a truly difficult kid. :-)

 

Maybe, though, we're saying the same thing--that we don't start with the assumption that all behavior "problems" aren't willfulness and many that are willfulness aren't malice or spite.

[Reya]

The silliness doesn't work here--it'd make the problem WAY worse, since the root is usually inattention and overexcitement. Getting DS's attention and then, once you've got it, getting him calm work. If he were stirred up more, next, there would be hysterical tears whenever SOMETHING happened. Not good.

 

I'm glad your list works for you. Many things here are common sense and/or universally applicable. Some, though, won't work well with other kids. Not that you thought they would! :-) It just goes to show, though, how individual kids are.

 

The connect first--this helps because it gets the kid's attention, which, around here, is most of the problem. The "connecting", though, is where we usually yell, to cut through the mental white noise! Corrections usually are said in a quiet tone.

 

I think we may have a different definition of yelling than many people.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Reya

[swellmomma]

Dealing with a child who has ADD or ADHD changes things a bit, I think. My older son and I are like oil and water in the way we clash. I can't stand to be disrespected to the point of him standing and yelling in my face and when that happens, I have been known to yell back. I won't be backed in a corner by anyone, much less, my child. He loses control of himself at times and can stop whining, screaming, yelling, and consequences have to come....which causes more screaming, yelling, whining, and more consequences...you see where this is going. It is tough to parent in general, but super tough when your child is a challenge (maybe even moreso when said child's bio father is absent for 335 days a year).

 

Yup! You nailed it. Personally I am a yeller, I am working on it but I am finding more and more of my days are spent yelling. My mom is/was a yeller too. She still regularily lets loose on me, so I am finding it very challenging to break that cycle. My oldest 2 have extra challenges that push me over the edge faster than anyone could, and send me yelling at them. Along with normal adhd behaviours, we are dealing with conduct disorder in 2 of them. Ds11 is pushing his luck lately with shoplifting/stealing from others. I guarantee you that in addition to returning the items/paying restitution/grounding etc there is a heck of a lot of yelling. Yes sometimes I am ashamed of the actual words that come out, but after the 3rd time in 1 days being caught doing this there is nothing nice left to say at all.

 

In my situation I know that I am totally burnt out. Everyone from family down to neighbors to paid babysitters, have refused to ever watch ds again and he hasn't seen his father more than 5 times in 8 years. Never getting a break, and being on guard for 24/7 has resulted in us going from occasional yelling to yelling. I am not willing to let things keep going this way, so Thursday I am seeing my gp. I have battled depression off and on for years, I can tell by my rages that it is back. Hopefully that will keep my emotions in check long enough to stop the yelling and get him back on track without killing him.

 

I know that my yelling is not helping the situation at all, in fact I think especially with my daughter it makes it worse. Yet I still do it, I can't seem to find something else that works, and so then my frustration is through the roof. I can't even walk away to calm down because they can't be left alone(well dd can but not with everyone else). I do think in my situation I replaced spanking with yelling. I never spanked until a few years ago, and that was a mistake, not because I think spanking is wrong, but because it started happening all the time (or so it felt) and did not help one bit. I have tried to get away from spanking, but I know my yelling increased ten fold when I did that.

 

Hopefully, once I am medicated again, I can once again get back to my old self and be more patient and more even toned. Though I think what I need more than anything to squashed the yelling bug, is a break from my life.

[johnandtinagilbert]

It's strange, because when my kids were younger, I never yelled. Our house was a lot more peaceful. We did add one more kid to the mix, but she's not the one that gets yelled at. My yelling is a pretty recent thing. My son (who has SPD and probably some form of ADD...he's being evaluated in a few weeks) gets the brunt of it. He just doesn't seem to hear anything unless I'm yelling. It's gotten to be so much of a habit, my older DD gets yelled at too. I just don't know how I got to this point, and I want to stop.

I totally understand this and I have an idea why. You're simply tired of repeating yourself about the same things. We expect toddlers and early elementary dc to need so much more guidance, but somewhere we decide "they're old enough to just do it!" So, when they don't, we get frustrated. We get louder. They just stop listening, so we get louder. I try to remember maturity. Although my dc are "mature for their age," they're still Children. Humans take a long time to mature, compared to other mammals, so I keep reminding myself, they're still children, I have to train them for at least 18 years. I don't always, ok, I don't generally like that, but it is the plain truth. I must simply accept I will tell them to go and make their bed at least every other day for the entire time they live in my house. Do they know to make their beds? Yup. Will I still tell them. Yup. At this point will I be yelling...maybe :D

 

Some ideas....(these have worked here because of our life situation, please don't take offense if they are not an issue in your home)

 

 

Know your triggers Is it mess? Noise? Frantic activity around you? Them not giving you s p a c e? Find out what bothers you most, minimize it, be honest with your kids about it and make plans as a family to avoid that. If it's not reasonable to avoid that trigger, you may need some additional help.

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=16

Great List. The triggers makes a huge difference for me. I have educated my dc on my triggers so we can all see what's going on. It really helps.

 

Although I did find the discussion of spanking in NurtureShock to be interesting -- specifically that one's cultural / personal attitude towards it (is it the ULTIMATE and somewhat forbidden punishment, as tends to be the case among self-described "progressive" sorts of parents, or just a normal sort of punishment, without taboo, as is the case among most African Americans and evangelical Christians). The outcome seems to be quite different, specifically that it's more effective among the latter group because it's not such a BIG DEAL.

 

I'd have to imagine that there's some weird things going on when a child knows a parent is doing something he/she thinks is wrong. ;)

We spank and it has never been an issue for our family or the majority of the people we spend time with, b/c they spank too. That was my first clue on the article stinking up the news. In our circles, spanking is not taboo. In fact, it's actually "different" if one doesn't spank.

[Joanne]

Then why did you imply that there were NO "battles of the will" in parenting?

 

I didn't. I said I don't approach parenting with the assumption that parenting IS a battle of wills. That kind of paradigm is represented in many parenting authors I've read.

 

I didn't, however, say that challenges of power, will, and control don't exist.

[funschooler5]

I totally understand this and I have an idea why. You're simply tired of repeating yourself about the same things. We expect toddlers and early elementary dc to need so much more guidance, but somewhere we decide "they're old enough to just do it!" So, when they don't, we get frustrated. We get louder. They just stop listening, so we get louder. I try to remember maturity. Although my dc are "mature for their age," they're still Children. Humans take a long time to mature, compared to other mammals, so I keep reminding myself, they're still children, I have to train them for at least 18 years. I don't always, ok, I don't generally like that, but it is the plain truth. I must simply accept I will tell them to go and make their bed at least every other day for the entire time they live in my house. Do they know to make their beds? Yup. Will I still tell them. Yup. At this point will I be yelling...maybe :D

 

 

Good point. When they were little, I didn't expect as much from them. Now, I know they are capable of a lot more, but I mistakenly think that they are going to always take the initiative to do what they're supposed to do without being asked. And with my (possibly) ADD son...he's capable of sitting for hours reading or playing with Legos, it seems like he should be able to sit for a few minutes at a time to do school work. It's very easy for me to forget his limitations and just lose it.

 

This whole thread has been great food for thought. It's nice to be able to "go" somewhere for support with things like this! :001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

In my situation I know that I am totally burnt out. Everyone from family down to neighbors to paid babysitters, have refused to ever watch ds again and he hasn't seen his father more than 5 times in 8 years. Never getting a break, and being on guard for 24/7 has resulted in us going from occasional yelling to yelling. I am not willing to let things keep going this way, so Thursday I am seeing my gp. I have battled depression off and on for years, I can tell by my rages that it is back. Hopefully that will keep my emotions in check long enough to stop the yelling and get him back on track without killing him.

 

I know that my yelling is not helping the situation at all, in fact I think especially with my daughter it makes it worse. Yet I still do it, I can't seem to find something else that works, and so then my frustration is through the roof. I can't even walk away to calm down because they can't be left alone(well dd can but not with everyone else). I do think in my situation I replaced spanking with yelling. I never spanked until a few years ago, and that was a mistake, not because I think spanking is wrong, but because it started happening all the time (or so it felt) and did not help one bit. I have tried to get away from spanking, but I know my yelling increased ten fold when I did that.

 

Hopefully, once I am medicated again, I can once again get back to my old self and be more patient and more even toned. Though I think what I need more than anything to squashed the yelling bug, is a break from my life.

I can totally relate to this. :grouphug:

[GESTEP]

The upside of this? When we were in high school we would come home and say "the band director was so upset, he started yelling at everyone, hit his music stand and paper clips flew everywhere, it was hilarious!" While my mom's friends had kids who came home and cried. My mom felt our family had better prepared us for the world.

 

 

:lol:

[Ritsumei]

You just reminded me that there was a Kit-Kat sitting on the mantle. Thank-You!!

 

Ohhhhhh.... Me too!! My husband brought me one a few days ago, and I forgot. Thanks from here as well, LOL! :lol: