Opinions on requiring 10-13 y/o's to do math independently

[homeschoolally]

I'd like to to hear different perspectives--I see benefits to Mom guiding the student through the problems, but I also think the discipline of tackling it themselves is of value.

 

I've always been a very hands-on teacher, but I think its reasonable to turn this subject over the the student at this age--with Mom available to offer help as needed. After the new concept is taught (Saxon in our case), the child goes to a quiet place to complete the practice set.

 

In our situation we're dealing with attention issues, so I realize I need to be a bit more 'present', but I'd like for my son to be working toward this goal. I'd like to get an idea about whether the 'typical' 10-13 is doing this--and opinions about why/why not its a good idea. Among the other classical homeschoolers I know, the majority use this approach.

 

Its been a few years since I read TWTM, so I can't remember their position on this. Thanks for the feedback!

[NorthwestMom]

After I explain the concept, DS10 and DD7 are expected to do their problem sets on their own. (To clarify, they are in separate levels in Singapore Math, so they are working separately). I don't sit with them or anything, but I am available for questions. Does that help?

[angela in ohio]

After the new concept is taught (Saxon in our case), the child goes to a quiet place to complete the practice set.

 

This is more hands-on than most homeschoolers I know. I teach the same way as you are describing. Actually, I teach four lessons at once and then they read the Saxon lesson each day and complete it, but it is the same idea. There is no reason to do the whole problem set with them, but it is also not wise to have them teaching themselves something as important as math. Your middle-of-the-road approach (which is the same as mine *grin*) is good.

[Stacy in NJ]

I've always required mine to do some of their math on their own. I teach the new concepts, do a few practice problems with them, then expect them to do some independently. I correct their independent work so that I'm aware of how their doing and any problems they may be having. I won't ever expect mine to self teach new material.

[stansclan89]

I require mine to attempt it on their own. A lot of times they already understand the concept without me helping them. I am always available though.

[Reya]

I'm not that hands-on with my 6-y-o unless it's something quite challenging. Even with him, it's mostly just calling his attention back to his work from his humming and flapping and dancing...

[gingersmom]

I am using Saxon math with my 10 and 13 year old. I go over the lesson with both of them and then they are on their own to do the mixed practice.

 

I tell them both if they can't solve a problem (after trying) just to leave it and we will go over it.

 

I review the same day with my 10 year old and the next day with my 13 year old.

[Sputterduck]

My son is 5 and does most of his math independently. I say if he can do it, why not let him? I didn't expect this at 5, but he loves math and cries every day when I make him stop. I give him several pages at a time and then I leave the room to do other things. When I get back it is always correct and we move on to the next several pages. He does several units like this every time we do math. I know that seems excessive for his age but he freaks when I make him stop.

 

At 10-13, I would expect mostly independent work.

[Joker]

I was happy to see this thread because I've been thinking I must not be doing enough. Our days seem shorter than they should be but my 9 yr dd, 4th grade, has been doing most of her work independently this year. I do the same as you - teach the lesson and have her do problems on her own. This thread has made me feel better - thanks!

[tdeveson]

My ds works independently. I don't even have to teach the material because we're using TT this year (which is working phenomenally for us). He works on two lessons each day, which takes about 30 minutes altogether if he doesn't dawdle. I make myself available for help, but that seldom is needed.

[In The Great White North]

It really depends on the child. 10 is young yet. One of mine could happily work on her own at that age; the other wanted/needed to by hand-held til the last problem was done til about 13.

[Danestress]

I teach a concept, and typically they work problems sets independently. Right now they are working their way through Life of Fred (in addition to some other math) on their own, and I check the Bridges - which are problem sets that come after a number of lessons.

 

My boys do well with this. If the math concept is difficult, I will often work through several problems with them first. If either boys takes a worksheet with problems and has trouble with it, I will sit down with him one-on-one and work problems until he is comfortable with it.

 

If I had to sit down the entire time with a boy this age, I probably will. Understanding the concepts and feeling good about one's ability to solve problems is the priority here. I think math can be a self-esteem builder or destroyer, and I don't want it to be an area of stress and conflict. I have one boy who is more of a "natural" than the other, but I try to help each feel good about his math.

[Mom0012]

I make sure my 10yo understands any new concepts that are being introduced and then he goes off and finishes the lesson. I do set a timer to help keep him on track. His lessons got significantly longer this year and he was staring out the window a lot until I started using the timer.

 

Lisa

[Elizabeth Conley]

I have a 10 YO son and a 13 YO daughter. We use MUS. The daughter is in Algebra.

 

I find that they both need me to teach the concept at the beginning of each lesson. I do this each Monday. It takes about 15 minutes for each kid. Then they work independently, but I'm always available to answer questions. If the previous day's work reveals conceptual difficulties, I reteach using a different perspective.

 

By Wednesday they're usually doing the review worksheets. Same thing Thursday. Sometimes they've forgotten a concept, but usually it's retaught anyway on a brief blurb on the worksheet. Regardless, I'll reteach on the following day if I must. Friday is almost always test day. I don't teach at all on test days.

 

Anyway, other than conveying the concept at the beginning of the lesson, I usually don't teach much. I love Mr. Demme's recorded lessons, and so do many kids. My kids really prefer I just sit down with them and teach the lesson interactively, one on one. That's how I do it.

 

Because my daughter will be a 9th grader next year, I'm going to switch to delivering her lessons on a white board "lecture style" and expecting her to take notes. We'll ease into this slowly, right after Christmas break. I'm hoping to prepare her for college, as Hubby and I plan to send her to the local CC when she turns 16.

 

When we switch to this delivery system, I plan to ease off even more on direct supervision while she completes the exercises.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Elizabeth Conley

[MamaT]

With my two 10yos and my 12yo, after they have been taught the lesson they do their problem sets independently. We use Saxon. I grade the lesson immediately when they are through and make them re-work any missed problems. I am available for help, but they rarely need it.

[Melanie]

We use Saxon (algebra 2 and 8/7). The kids read the lessons and do the problem sets themselves, and they rarely need help. They are not finished with a lesson until every problem has been worked correctly.

[2cents]

I go over the lesson concepts for the day but the girls do the rest of their lesson on their own and then I correct. If they get some wrong then they try again. If they get it wrong again then I work through it with them. We've been doing math like this since the beginning (1st grade on-they're 6 & 7th now). I found early on that if I did the math with them that they tended to let me do too much. For our school, we found that having them tackle math independently makes them more attentive.

[Beebalm]

My younger child is 13. We've struggled with this for a LONG time (a couple of years). Looking back, I'm glad I've made her be independent with her math....we go over the new concepts together, she has a limited time to work on it, and if she doesn't finish, it's homework. I can always tell how she'll do by just LOOKING at her when I walk by. Some days are A's, and some days are F's. If she's distracted or moody, she usually winds up having to do it over....on the weekend. She's learning but it's not easy some days. One word of encouragement for you...a 4.0 college student (previously homeschooled) told me that the main advantage that homeschooled students have is that they don't expect to be 'spoonfed'. She said that nine times out of ten she can read the material on her own and get it, while her classmates consider that a completely foreign idea. Hang in there.

[KarenNC]

I have been more deliberate this year (age 9) about breaking up our work into "together work" and "independent work" to encourage less desire (and it is desire, not need, in her situation) for a lot of "hand-holding" as she does her work. She has a planner with the week's assignments of both, so that she knows when we're finished, and gets a daily list of her independent work, to be completed after we have done all our together work. I treat it as I would if she brought homework from public school---I am available for questions, but she is responsible for completing the assignments.

 

Examples:

math: Singapore 4A---we do the textbook together, then she does the workbook, reviews and practices independently

spelling: I quiz, she does practice

history: SOTW 4--I read the chapter aloud while she outlines, then she does the mapwork, any additional reading (unless it is something I feel will be better done together as a read-aloud and the review questions from the AG (I've typed them up so that she can do this)

[homeschoolally]

Thanks to everyone for the replies!

I feel much better about my expectations.

I wondered if I'd been unreasonable--I find myself daydreaming about those Robinson children doing Saxon 2 hrs daily with no teacher--and perfect SAT scores! =)

Thanks again.

[LibraryLover]

My 10 yr old yaks through her Saxon, even though once we go over the new lesson, she does it on her own. She hardly stops talking. So, is she doing it on her own? If I don't answer, can I count it t as lone. lol

 

I told her she could zip through if she stopped talking, and she says "Why do I need to zip through it"? She hardly ever gets any thing wrong once she gets a concept; she good at it, so she may have a point.

 

What's your question again? ;)

[Dawn in OH]

I have a DS8 and DD7, both working at the same level in math, we are doing the end of 2nd grade/early 3rd grade. When we begin a new concept I spend some time with the children explaining it, we do a few problems together until I feel that they understand the concept. Then I give them their work and let them complete the assignment on their own. I am close by and available for questions or assistance if anyone needs it.

 

I have found in the past that when I hand hold them through the math they learn nothing. They become dependent on me to do the thinking for them and talk them through the steps.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Dawn in OH

[Ellie]

I think that some instruction/discussion at the beginning of each lesson is important, but the dc should be able to do the assignments independently.

[Cedarmom]

I think working on a problem set on his own is very reasonable expectation...however, that doesn't necessarily mean it will happen. If he's struggling, what about smaller goals? Set the timer for 20-30 min. Then he works independently. At the end of the time if he's done x amount of problems and worked without dawdling he gets a small reward( extra tv or computer time, you'll play a game with him). If he can't succeed at 20 min, start lower. As time goes by work up the time and then abandon the prize. Some kids automatically are able to work on their own, others need more training. You may have to stay in the room, to remind him when he's getting distracted. Oh, and of course by the time you train your 10 year old , he will turn 12. And 12-13 year old boys lose their mind, and have no attention capabilities, and you have to start over. :001_smile:

[Tap]

Both of my kids were totally independent on math at 10/11yo. They read the lesson, did the work and came to me with any questions. They know if they really understand a concept or if they are just 'winging' it. We also have a rule that if they get less than a strong B on a math assignment they repeat it. It encourages them to seek out help if they need it :D.

 

Ds was grading his own math at 11 too. He was using Saxon then, and I would help him with correcting any problems that he couldn't immediately figure out he correct answer to. When we switched to TT he was totally independent, unless he needed me of course. I didn't do any grading or teaching for Alg1,2 or Geo. He is now in public school Pre-calc and is doing great so it must have worked well for him.

 

Dd10 is in TT5 but she doesn't watch the lecture, just reads it. She does the lesson independently, and I grade it for her, usually with her sitting there so I can easily go over missed concepts with her. I also like to go back and have her explain things to me verbally so I know that she really understands concepts. She is doing great.

 

They have both liked being independent for the subject and as long as their tests and comprehension show they are mastering the material, I feel good about it.

[Supertechmom]

Thanks to everyone for the replies!

I feel much better about my expectations.

I wondered if I'd been unreasonable--I find myself daydreaming about those Robinson children doing Saxon 2 hrs daily with no teacher--and perfect SAT scores! =)

Thanks again.

 

 

:grouphug: because my answer is a little different! I don't teach math. I worked with them to understand the basic principles in preschool, then worked to make sure they could read and comprehend the lesson (took about 2 years total in the early grades). Now in 3rd and 7th they both self teach math. One is working thru Singapore 4b and Ray's Intellectual and the other is working thru NEM 1 (almost done) and Ray's practical. I started with Robinson so we do the 2 hours of math and 2 hours of English even though we have started with WTM now. I have several types of math books on the shelf ranging from elementary to college texts and if they truly can't understand a concept and after sitting beside me and reading it out loud and translating what each sentence means doesn't shed any light, then I direct them to the book on the shelf that might.

 

It's worked pretty well so far. I never had a guide to go by and figured that in college professors were not going to teach or hold their hands so they had better get used to how to figure it out. My algebra class was spent discussing current events after providing the answers to homework. (literally he checked that we had work done and then said the answers are ... Got it wrong oh well! Figure it out!) Not math. I was expected to figure that out. The oldest is taking the SAT this winter and is missing very few math questions on the practice tests.

 

My grading is if they miss more than 2 a day, then they must do extra work until they miss none. That pretty much keeps us from having those I wasn't paying attention and just put down answers days. Then I know if I see several wrong that they need to review the lesson, missed a certain key point, or need a different explanation of the concept.

[Matryoshka]

My kids are 8 and 11, in Singapore 4a and 6a respectively. I teach the lesson in the textbook and go over sample problems on the white board as needed, and they are expected to do the workbook independently. They can come to me for help, but mostly they do it independently. I wouldn't give up teaching the lesson first, though (although sometimes it goes very quickly if they've "got it" - other times it can take quite a while).