Amber in SJ Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 My family needs any prayers and healing thoughts you can spare. This Saturday my 17 yo nephew killed himself. I have no words for the sorrow of his parents, siblings, my 15 yo dd who looked up to him, etc. We all live in the same city and see each other often. My SIL is a devout Catholic. My BIL is not. They are divorced. My SIL wants to have a Catholic service. My question was raised when a 3rd person who knows my SIL (and nephew) from attending the same church years ago and knows me from a homeschooling group called me to offer condolences. She said she "heard" that it was an accidental overdose (it was not) but she didn't know if that was the info from SIL. She also said if it wasn't an accident she could understand, being Catholic, why SIL wouldn't want anyone to know. I didn't give any information but I wanted to know what being Catholic had to do with anything. Can anyone let me know? It was not accidental or an overdose. He went into the garage with his father's gun and shot himself. He was still alive when BIL found him, but he died in the ER. Thank you for the information, Amber in SJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 My family needs any prayers and healing thoughts you can spare. This Saturday my 17 yo nephew killed himself. I have no words for the sorrow of his parents, siblings, my 15 yo dd who looked up to him, etc. We all live in the same city and see each other often. My SIL is a devout Catholic. My BIL is not. They are divorced. My SIL wants to have a Catholic service. My question was raised when a 3rd person who knows my SIL (and nephew) from attending the same church years ago and knows me from a homeschooling group called me to offer condolences. She said she "heard" that it was an accidental overdose (it was not) but she didn't know if that was the info from SIL. She also said if it wasn't an accident she could understand, being Catholic, why SIL wouldn't want anyone to know. I didn't give any information but I wanted to know what being Catholic had to do with anything. Can anyone let me know? It was not accidental or an overdose. He went into the garage with his father's gun and shot himself. He was still alive when BIL found him, but he died in the ER. Thank you for the information, Amber in SJ I can't answer your question (although I think it has to do with suicide being a pretty big sin in Catholicism, but I don't know details), but I wanted to tell you that I am so very, very sorry. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) :grouphug: That is terrible, and I am so sorry for you and your family. Suicide is a mortal sin in Catholicism, and there is no way to ask for forgiveness afterward, for obvious reasons. Edited October 5, 2009 by Truscifi When I reread it, it seemed insensitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Years ago, suicides were thought to go to hell by many Catholics. And were not allowed to be buried in hallowed ground. As our understanding of mental illness has increased, that thinking has changed. Technically, any who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to hell & suicide is a mortal sin. From the Catechism: Suicide 2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of. 2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God. 2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law. Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. 2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives Edited October 5, 2009 by unsinkable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 :grouphug: That is terrible, and I am so sorry for you and your family. Suicide is a mortal sin in Catholicism, and there is no way to ask for forgiveness afterward, for obvious reasons. You can read what I copied from the Catechism below. We don't know the mental state of suicides so all is not really lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Years ago, suicides were thought to go to hell by many Catholics. And were not allowed to be buried in hallowed ground. As our understanding of mental illness has increased, that thinking has changed. Technically, any who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to hell & suicide is a mortal sin. From the Catechism: Suicide 2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of. 2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God. 2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law. Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. 2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives I was just going to post this and you beat me to it. There is no reason why your sil should not want other Catholics to know about her son's suicide. Indeed, those prayers will be invaluable to her right now. I'm so sorry for her loss; she and her family are in my prayers. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 :grouphug: That is terrible, and I am so sorry for you and your family. Suicide is a mortal sin in Catholicism, and there is no way to ask for forgiveness afterward, for obvious reasons. Completely incorrect. Please refer to a solid source of information about the Catholic church such as this link http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/ or this one http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Amber I am so sorry that you and your family have lost a loved one in such a tragic way. We have been through similar, but not with one so young. Thank you to the Catholics that have responded. I am glad to hear that Catholics have changed their views on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in SJ Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Thank you everyone for the answers, virtual hugs and prayers. I am glad to see the teachings of the Catholic church. I hope that my SIL will be able to be comforted by her faith. the next shock was the cost of the funeral home/ memorial services. Amber in SJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 And peoples, please be sensitive when responding. Amber is hurting and does not need insensitive lectures. My condolences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Amber, I'm sorry for your loss. Any time you need an answer about something in regards to Catholicism, the Vatican has a website with a wonderful search function. The actual teaching is thus: We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives. I have (unfortunately) been to a few Catholic funerals that were the result of suicide, and no one judged the deceased or their family members. A loss is a loss, and everyone needs support. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 And peoples, please be sensitive when responding. Amber is hurting and does not need insensitive lectures.My condolences. I hope you are not referring to my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'm so sorry. :grouphug: My step brother committed suicide about 12 years ago, and he was Catholic (as is my step mother). I don't know the details, as I'm not Catholic, but I do know she has a mass said on his birthday every year, and she continues to pray for him and light candles for him. I know extraordinarily little about Catholic doctrine, but I got the impression that my step mom believes that the prayers, masses and candles have some sort of positive effect on him, like maybe he'll spend less time in hell or something. I don't know, so don't quote me, but I know SM feels its very important to continue these masses and prayers for him. I'll keep your family in prayer. This is such an emotional and gut-wrenching time that is so hard to move on from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I have no idea about the catholic question, but I am so very sorry for your loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm also sorry that there is fighting about the service, it really makes it so hard for the families. I wish it didn't happen so often. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I am so sorry for your family and your loss. How incredibly sad! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I know extraordinarily little about Catholic doctrine, but I got the impression that my step mom believes that the prayers, masses and candles have some sort of positive effect on him, like maybe he'll spend less time in hell or something. I don't know, so don't quote me, but I know SM feels its very important to continue these masses and prayers for him. Just a clarification - not hell, but possibly purgatory. Only the condemned go to hell. Catholic teaching also tells us that we here on Earth cannot see into anyone's soul, so we cannot know who might be condemned and who might not. Amber, my heart and prayers go out to your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenL Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 :grouphug: My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 :grouphug: Oh Amber!! I am so so sorry. This is a tragedy indeed. I am so very very sorry. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadiegirl Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'm sorry for your loss...prayers for you and your family as you deal with this tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMA Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 :grouphug: I'm very sorry for your loss. Will say prayers for all. Louise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in WI Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I am so sorry for your loss Amber. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 :grouphug: I'm so sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Just a clarification - not hell, but possibly purgatory. Only the condemned go to hell. Catholic teaching also tells us that we here on Earth cannot see into anyone's soul, so we cannot know who might be condemned and who might not. Amber, my heart and prayers go out to your family. Thanks for clarifying that! I can never remember purgatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Katia Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Oh, Amber. I am so, so sorry for your loss. This breaks my heart....my dd is 17yo and I just can't imagine.....I'm SO sorry. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Just a clarification - not hell, but possibly purgatory. Only the condemned go to hell. Catholic teaching also tells us that we here on Earth cannot see into anyone's soul, so we cannot know who might be condemned and who might not. Amber, my heart and prayers go out to your family. Just curious what scriptures would pertain to purgatory? PM me if you like.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I don't have time to get into an exhaustive search, nor do I want to debate, but here are some resources for your information. Scriptures dealing with purgatory I am sure that other, more knowlegeable Catholics will have more to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I don't have time to get into an exhaustive search, nor do I want to debate, but here are some resources for your information. Scriptures dealing with purgatory I am sure that other, more knowlegeable Catholics will have more to offer. Exactly what I needed. Thank you! Witnesses have a different meaning for three different words that are often all translated "h*ll" in some versions of the Bible, so I was curious if this were similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 The friend was probably concerned about the family having a funeral mass. A long time ago, Catholic churches (along with almost all other Christian churches) used to forbid a church service and burial on consecrated ground for those who committed suicide. This is no longer true in the Catholic church, and I would guess it's no longer true in most churches edited to add: the friend may have thought the family would want to present it as an accident to the priest, in order to have the mass/burial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I'm so sorry. Oh that poor mother and father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 So very sorry. I cannot imagine the pain of having a teenager commit suicide. May God comfort your family as only He can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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