Gamom3 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Or do they just want to keep making money on their stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 From what I understand, the gov't *is* doing something. Remember when they started requiring...what is it called? They put corn-based something in gas. Well, that makes the gas more expensive. It makes food more expensive, too. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 From what I understand, the gov't *is* doing something. Remember when they started requiring...what is it called? They put corn-based something in gas. Well, that makes the gas more expensive. It makes food more expensive, too. LOL LOL! And don't forget the ridiculous amount of tax on gasoline. They're doing a LOT. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof2kids Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 From what I understand, the gov't *is* doing something. Remember when they started requiring...what is it called? They put corn-based something in gas. Well, that makes the gas more expensive. It makes food more expensive, too. LOL LOL! And don't forget the ridiculous amount of tax on gasoline. They're doing a LOT. :D Yeah! And my mom thinks it's the Big Bad Greedy Oil companies wanting more profit! Uggh!! She just doesn't get it and doesn't care to hear anything different when I try to tell her. Also, we need to be allowed to tap into our own oil supplies but the gov't won't let it happen. Again not something my mom wants to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Yeh, about the only thing I believe they SHOULD do about it is stop taxing me over a $1.00 a gallon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I'm with everyone above:D i don't think I'd like what the gv't would decide to do if wanted to "get involved" anymore......:eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raders Fan Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Yes, I don't think we can handle any more "government involvement." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 From what I understand, the gov't *is* doing something. Remember when they started requiring...what is it called? They put corn-based something in gas. Well, that makes the gas more expensive. It makes food more expensive, too. LOL Ethanol. So not only is gas more expensive, but corn is more expensive and wheat is more expensive because more farmers are planting corn. Animal feed is more expensive because the price of corn is going up which means meat, dairy and eggs are more expensive... And the sad/stupid thing is it takes more energy to produce ethanol than is saved by using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri in Central CA Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 LOL! And don't forget the ridiculous amount of tax on gasoline. They're doing a LOT. :D The value of the dollar (exchange rate) continues to fall...more dollars for imported goods (oil). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Gas is already cheaper here than almost everywhere else. And it's still cheaper than milk. As much as it's hurting me financially, I'm glad that the price of gas is finally starting to reflect its cost (to the environment, that is). If the government is going to do anything, I hope it's going to be to make it more possible to wean people off of gas, not continue their dependency. More bike lanes, better public transportation, urban renewal--I'd much rather my tax dollars go to that than to keeping gas cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jail warden Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Gas is already cheaper here than almost everywhere else. And it's still cheaper than milk. Actually my dh stopped at the store today to buy milk and it cost more than gas! And it was supposed to be on sale!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Unless one lives in Kuwait or Saudi Arabia, we in the US are paying less for gas than most anyone in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Actually my dh stopped at the store today to buy milk and it cost more than gas! And it was supposed to be on sale!!! That sounds about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin in Tx Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 You know, the US govt and the oil companies don't control the cost of crude oil. That's OPEC. And OPEC has made it pretty clear they're going to keep the cost of oil above $80. Some economists think their claims of reserves are fabricated and that the reason they won't produce more (and thus reducing the cost) is because they can't... that we're at peak oil right now. But even if they could, why would they? We gladly buy it at $100 plus, so why would they do anything to reduce the price? What we need is a real energy policy (not the energy policy of the last 20 years which has been little more than bash and blame the oil companies). It's going to take billions of dollars of research to come up with the technological breakthrough needed to effectively change the way we fuel our energy needs. No one is going to invest that until oil production hits peak... maybe we're seeing that approach now. And certainly ethanol isn't a viable answer - people will support that until they day they drive through McDonalds to find a Big Mac costs $10. The havoc corn subsidies has played on our food costs now should be all the evidence we need to abandon that policy. Man, grain prices are DOUBLE right now. It's unbelievable, really, how fast and drastically prices have gone up... Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doran Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (snip)..... It's going to take billions of dollars of research to come up with the technological breakthrough needed to effectively change the way we fuel our energy needs. No one is going to invest that until oil production hits peak... maybe we're seeing that approach now. And certainly ethanol isn't a viable answer - people will support that until they day they drive through McDonalds to find a Big Mac costs $10. The havoc corn subsidies has played on our food costs now should be all the evidence we need to abandon that policy. Man, grain prices are DOUBLE right now. It's unbelievable, really, how fast and drastically prices have gone up... Robin Funny how there's always somebody out there who benefits from absurd price increases. Equally absurd, however, is that we are still so sickeningly dependent on these resources which are non-renewable and therefore, non-sustainable. The grain farmers in MD (and there are plenty given their ties to the poultry industry here) are delighted to finally be making "something" on their crops, but it is a short sighted delight given that fuel, feed, and fertilizer prices are also doubling. I'd have to disagree that it's going to take billions in research to come up with the technological breakthroughs to change our energy sources -- those technologies already exist. What we have to do is convince the powers that be to make them available, and to mandate their use. Until then...well let the gas prices climb! I have to agree with PariSarah and others on the fact it's high time we USAers started to feel the pinch in our pocketbooks for the price of fuel. Trouble is, the people who really feel the pinch are the "little guys" while the affluent corporations and citizens continue on their merry way of consumption. Doran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I'm thankful that I only have to make one or two trips a week right now -- rather than the daily job commute of years past -- so even though $3.00+ per gallon is a hit, it's manageable. If I don't have money for gas, I just say home, and I appreciate that I'm able to do that -- many can't. I really feel for my minimum wage neighbors who are spending so much of their money on gas. I really enjoy paying $1.50 more for a gallon of milk now that someone somewhere can buy ethanol -- it isn't available here. That said, I literally laugh out loud at the people I know who are complaining about the cost of gas on the one hand, and yet think nothing of paying for bottled water -- now *that's* expensive! Or they leave their cars running when they run into the little Mom 'n' Pop store down the way because it's cold outside. They're wearing jackets -- and how much will the engine cool in the five minutes it takes them to buy their water? They're still bombing down the highway at ten miles an hour over the speed limit, and making four or five 70 mile round trips to the "big town" to buy things they can't get here because they can't be bothered to make a shopping list. Probably figure they're saving a few tress that way? I think we have to be responsible for making a few lifestyle changes in situations like this. And yes -- the price of gas in this country is *very* cheap compared to the rest of the world. But we complain anyway -- which is part of the reason the rest of the world makes fun of how spoiled we are. And we *are* spoiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin in Tx Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 What technologies are you referring to? I'm not aware of any viable alternative on the horizon, not anything that would genuinely revolutionize the way we fuel things in a big way. Is there something out there that is practical and affordable... I mean truly doable and promising? Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin in Tx Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ethanol will never be the answer... there isn't enough land to plant enough corn to truly convert over, and what it does to food costs is catastrophic to the world's poor who depend on affordable grain from the US. These are not people who can gladly pay an extra $1 for a gallon of milk. The ripple effect of intentionally inflating grain prices is almost too huge to fully understand. I'm not opposed to grain farmers earning a decent living ... I don't think the subsidy was intended to raise the standard of living of the grain farmer, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virginia Dawn Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 First is commodity speculators, they are part of the reason gas is so high at the pump. Oil has become a precious commodity like gold because the value of the dollar is dropping. Second government and environmental regulations already in place help contribute to the rising costs as well. They are behind the fact that new refineries are not being built and our country is not stepping up its own production of oil. These regs were put in place because of the efforts of people concerned about the environment. We can't have both cheap gas and low environmental impact. Personally, I think we've been living a pipe dream for so long we can't see reality any more. Now we are getting a taste of what the rest of the world has had to deal with for a long time. Sheesh, when I lived in Sicily in the 80's gas was over $4 a gallon there (in American money which had twice the value of Italian Lire at the time.) and we had to buy ration cards each month. Cheap gas is not a right. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ethanol will never be the answer... there isn't enough land to plant enough corn to truly convert over, and what it does to food costs is catastrophic to the world's poor who depend on affordable grain from the US. These are not people who can gladly pay an extra $1 for a gallon of milk. The ripple effect of intentionally inflating grain prices is almost too huge to fully understand. I'm not opposed to grain farmers earning a decent living ... I don't think the subsidy was intended to raise the standard of living of the grain farmer, though. I have also heard that ethanol can not be transported by pipeline so it needs to be hauled by trucks ... the kind that run on GAS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele in New Zealand Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Crikey! We have been paying $1.80 per litre for quite some time and it went up today again. Cheese is $13.00 for 1kg and milk is about $3.10 per litre. We no longer buy cheese, milk or any other dairy product. It takes $100 to fill up my tank in our car now and I do that twice a week sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Gas is already cheaper here than almost everywhere else. And it's still cheaper than milk. As much as it's hurting me financially, I'm glad that the price of gas is finally starting to reflect its cost (to the environment, that is). If the government is going to do anything, I hope it's going to be to make it more possible to wean people off of gas, not continue their dependency. More bike lanes, better public transportation, urban renewal--I'd much rather my tax dollars go to that than to keeping gas cheap. I completely agree. DH and I were just talking yesterday about how we wish the government would focus on building up the public transportation systems. He wants to take our twins to NYC for a day or two. He'd like to take the train. But taking the train takes *longer* than driving. Why is that? I need to go to Boston several times a year for work. There is no train that runs from Burlington to Boston. Most European countries have great train systems. We could too, if we stopped subsidizing car travel and focused on public transportation systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaylk in tx Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 i know, my husband helps design them! all of the engineering companies down here in houston are swamped with work; most of it refineries for heavy crude (as opposed to the light crude that comes from the middle east). now it takes 2-3 years just to complete the design work before construction can begin and that takes 2-3 years as well so there's no immediate increase in refining capacity, but over the next 5-15 years, there are going to be a lot more refineries built. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 From what i understand about ethanol (corn based) it is only cost affective for consumers to buy if regular gas is over a certain amount. If regular gas goes under a certain amount the ethanol can't get any cheaper. It, ethanol, can't go any cheaper than the mid $2 range, where regular gas can techincally can fluxuate up and down quite a bit, ethanol can't go down very far at all. I don't think that made sense at all! lol Megan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 And yes -- the price of gas in this country is *very* cheap compared to the rest of the world. But we complain anyway -- which is part of the reason the rest of the world makes fun of how spoiled we are. And we *are* spoiled. My guess is the rest of the world already makes an income which is proportional to their higher cost of living. This is not yet the case here in the US, and that is why the rising prices hurt many of us so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I think this is interesting happening during primaries. The economy is having so many issues right now - housing, fuel costs, grocercies right in the middle of the all the primaries. The timing is just too coincidental. Something to think about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I think this is interesting happening during primaries. The economy is having so many issues right now - housing, fuel costs, grocercies right in the middle of the all the primaries. The timing is just too coincidental. Something to think about! Ya Think??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 My guess is the rest of the world already makes an income which is proportional to their higher cost of living. This is not yet the case here in the US, and that is why the rising prices hurt many of us so much. I think it's rather that we are so unused to economizing that we "feel" more pinched than the rest of the world. The amount and degree of gratuitous luxury in our lives--and by "us," I mean anybody lower middle class and above--is staggering compared to the rest of the world. And at least mildly astonishing compared even to the rest of the developed world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle T Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 My guess is the rest of the world already makes an income which is proportional to their higher cost of living. This is not yet the case here in the US, and that is why the rising prices hurt many of us so much. In Europe, they pay much higher taxes than we do, and they have been paying WAY more for gas for years. There is more public transportation there, and people actually use it. I don't think the majority of people there live as lavishly as many Americans do. We are just incredibly lucky, or maybe spoiled, depending on how you look at it. Michelle T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Wisc Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 We might actually make enough on our corn to pay for putting it in this year! (Well, that is if the weather cooperates and all.) The best I can tell, slow to understand as I am, the price of our farm commodities are kept low so that food prices are lower (you know, bread and circuses), and the farm wives have to work in order for the corn growers to be able to stay on the farm and not lose the land to some sheriff's sale (hard when you are a stay at home mom). That is why dh is now a full time engineer AND a farmer--to be able afford to grow his corn and soybeans and give them away for less than it cost to grow them. (Yeah!) We are expected to pay out of our pocket so that others can eat for less, right? The government doesn't seem to mind that one bit :D Grrrr. Sorry. Sore subject. It is so frustrating that when the price of corn finally goes up enough to be worth it all, the whole nation screams about it. I know; I know. My grocery bill and gas costs are going up, too. No solution here. (sigh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 We are expected to pay out of our pocket so that others can eat for less, right? The government doesn't seem to mind that one bit :D Grrrr. Sorry. Sore subject. It is so frustrating that when the price of corn finally goes up enough to be worth it all, the whole nation screams about it. I'm glad *someone* is reaping the benefits of this mess. American family farmers have been getting a raw deal for as long as I can remember. Frankly, I would much prefer that the free market determine prices rather than have them arbitrarily reduced. It's ridiculous that it costs more to grow any crop than what it actually brings in. My argument about the corn, though, isn't that farmer's shouldn't receive a fair price for their crops -- they absolutely should. It's outrageous that farm families should have to shoulder the burden of having three or four jobs (and yes, I'm counting SAHMs as having "real" jobs) just to be able to keep the farm! But this ethanol thing is ridiculous. It isn't going to solve the problem -- it just adds to it. I'm really glad you posted this, though, and I'm sorry it's a sore subject. You are certainly entitled! I don't think I'll ever be able to buy a gallon of milk again -- no matter what the price -- without thinking of you! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 And it's still cheaper than milk. Actually my dh stopped at the store today to buy milk and it cost more than gas! And it was supposed to be on sale!!! Honestly, I don't understand the argument about gas price vs. milk prices. Who buys 20 gallons of milk at a time? Or even 20 gallons of milk every 2 weeks? I don't have to budget milk, even though I pay over $6.00/gal (organic) because I only go through 2 gallons every 2 weeks [i understand others use much more, but it's still not $69 (based on $3.45/gal for gas as it is here today) a week or even every 2 weeks. Even if I bought 4 gallons every week, it's still quite a bit less]. However, we DO have to budget gas now (when it used to be a post script to the budget, kwim?) - as it's $350 a month for us!! It's a major, major expense now. So if someone wants to enlighten me on this argument, I'd honestly love to hear it. I don't mean this tongue in cheek or anything. Honestly, all this talk about the whole stimulus package to get the economy up and going again is a joke. If gas prices were back at a reasonable level, the economy very well might jump back on it's own. There was a time when states would put a cap on the gas prices. There was a time when we were told the prices were high because of all of the hurricanes in the Gulf and the refineries were damaged. The prices were lower when that happened than they are now, and it's my understanding the refineries are back in working order. The reasons for the high prices don't make sense and change daily. I understand it's OPEC. But it's also the government and, as another poster(s) mentioned, their lack of taking this into our own hands rather than being dependent on other countries. As a side, there was an interview clip shown about a month or so ago of Pres. Bush in Saudi Arabia (I think that's where he was). He was asked by the news anchor (I think it was for Nightline) if he was going to ask about lowering the oil prices. Bush said he was. Then they show him actually talking to the King about it and he's groveling. I mean, truly there's no other word for the way he was asking the King to please lower the price of oil because the American economy was going to be hurt if he didn't. I'm just open mouthed thinking, "At this point, what does the King CARE if the American economy suffers. It's probably the highlight of his day to learn that". So then the news anchor later asks Bush if he thought he should have been a little more "authoritative" or shown a little more "gumption" in his request. To which Bush replied, "No, absolutely not. Why should I?" Ugh, it made me sick. Anyway, whew! It felt good to get that out, LOL. I had no idea I was harboring so much angst over gas prices! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vida Winter Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 i know, my husband helps design them! all of the engineering companies down here in houston are swamped with work; most of it refineries for heavy crude (as opposed to the light crude that comes from the middle east). now it takes 2-3 years just to complete the design work before construction can begin and that takes 2-3 years as well so there's no immediate increase in refining capacity, but over the next 5-15 years, there are going to be a lot more refineries built. :) I am glad to hear this. In the pit of my stomach the fact that we are dependent on the Middle East for oil has *never* set well with me. There has got to be a way for our citizens to wean themselves of this dependence and realistically, it is not going to be from everyone driving hybrids. We have got to use our own oil resources at some point. I believe that this can be done with minimal environmental impact and yes it will be worth it to not be hostage to a foreign concern. As for our government "doing something" about it, they can #1 Stop taxing the &^%$ out of us at the pump #2 Allow refineries to be built #3 In Oregon, at least, we could save a LOT if we minions would be allowed to pump our own gas. As for what our government should not do: They should NOT even think about trying to fix the prices of gas. The last time they tried this (in the late 70's) it created such havoc that we could only buy gas on certain days and had to wait in line at the pump for an hour or more for our "turn". Yes, I was driving then, still a teenager. President Carter's energy policies were terribly flawed and he ended up being as popular as a lump of mud. I hope that we learned something from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 WE pay $1.56 per l for diesel, there is no public transport and we live 20 minutes drive from the nearest shop. for a good shopping center I have to drive 100 km. I have a house cow, and it is a lot cheaper to buy hay than milk. MelissaL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3littlekeets Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 and y that "gas" seems to be a "right." When I was growing up in the 70's, we had one car, and my parents traded it for a smaller one when gas prices got high. We made only necessary trips, and we cut down on extracurricular travel. Now, it seems like karate, dance, and traveling baseball teams require a "right" to gas at prices we like :rolleyes:. And, yes, we have become dependent on gas, so why not consider obvious solutions like "less dependency." We (me included) chose to take on sub(urban) lifestyles with 2 family autos, year round heating/cooling. We complain when people talk "green," yet when water is rationed and prices for that soar, we complain yet again. So, the gov't taxes. And, yes, Republicans are in office (hopefully that will end soon :D), but realistically, our lifestyles lead to this so called crises! Carpool, telecommute, farm, reduce waste, stop the non-essential trips, etc. Just my .02 as I wrestle with my own responsibility for this world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 As others have noted in this discussion, Americans are so accustomed to low fuel and food prices, many don't seem cognizant of the fact that those prices quite often don't reflect the real costs of transportation and production, etc. Now, it seems like karate, dance, and traveling baseball teams require a "right" to gas at prices we like :rolleyes:. And, yes, we have become dependent on gas, so why not consider obvious solutions like "less dependency." Good point. And what strikes me, so often, is that while I hear people lament rising fuel prices, most of them still aren't doing much in the way of lessening their dependency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I agree. And you know, my father always said when I was growing up that they ought to RAISE the price of gas higher for environmental reasons. He got his wish, but I can see now that he was someone who could afford that. Many can't. I totally agree with your post. I think reducing use and finding alternative sources is going to be part of the long term solution. But I do worry about the poor. I worry about the elderly on a fixed income. Air conditioning isn't a "right" but it feels like a necesary expense here in the South and I feel really sorry for old people and the working poor (or out of work poor) who are wondering how they will every pay those bills. And along with it, the higher food prices are making things difficult for some of these people. Not sure what to do about that, but I am just thinking about how hard life can be for people on the edge, and how for me it might be a matter of "well, combine trips and maybe drop an activity" while for someone else it might be really constant worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlockOfSillies Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 1.) Put the immediate needs of the economy (i.e., the average Joe, Joanne, or Jose') ahead of Barbra Streisand's view from her kitchen, and allow oil drilling off the coast. Or better yet, open up ANWR. 2.) Speed up the permitting process for new oil refineries. The current ones are like your garage fridge -- old, inefficient, and on their last legs. We can't get new refineries online fast enough. 3.) Approve more permits for nuclear power plants. If we want to reduce our dependency on fossil fuels, we need to get over our heebie jeebies about nuclear power -- especially since modern plants are safer and more efficient. And there's two things we can do that don't normally get mentioned: 1.)stop expecting the government to "fix" everything, and 2.) start recognizing that we are stockholders of "Big Oil" through our 401(k)'s and IRAs. And it would also help if we started learning more about how difficult (both logistically and bureaucratically) it is to remove oil from the ground and turn it into 500 different fuels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey in TX Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 US has an infrastructure problem which only complicates the oil dependency. Such a large country, so spread out. Rural and suburban areas which currently require a vehicle to reach any destination. We designed the country in this fashion as the automotive industry was on the rise. It was exciting and lucrative for everyone involved. Fast forward a century later and we've created a debacle in which we're now dependent on the once luxury automobile. In order to solve this dilemma, we need to not only do optional driving/traveling less, but need to develop intra-country mass transit. It would cost trillions of dollars to be large enough to be effective. Even then it would take a generation to train ourselves to depend on each other instead of ourselves and the comfort of our comfy driver's seats. I've addressed this w/in my own community. Even an idea as audacious as extra sidewalks to encourage teens to walk was thought crazy...wasting money, ya' know. No political party is to blame, nor will be responsible for fixing the problem. A solution will come when gasoline is so outrageously expensive that we Americans finally cry "uncle" and demand a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 So, after spending a bit of time here and there reading about the "peak oil" situation I have a new to-do list: 1. Win the lottery. 2. Buy large, naturally irrigated farm that can substain a variety of crops. 3. Learn to can, spin wool, weave, farm, ranch and other necessary skills currently lacking. 4. Start making lists of people with necessary skills and talking them into ditching all possessions and moving to Idaho, Oregon, Montana or whatnot. 5. Spend all lottery money getting prepared (building buildings, getting solar/biodiesel generators set up, etc) setting enough aside for taxes until the world collapses. How does that look? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelroper Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 As several posters mentioned/alluded to the government has made the most profit from gas sales, the taxes collected add several zeros to the oil company's profits (which are taxed). Also an increase in production is inevitable. I didn't notice anyone mentioning the affect of growing third world countries on the demand of oil. China for one has increased their use and it will continue as many of their citizens continue to purchase cars (for the first time). IMHO this is the primary reason for the increase in prices, some of these countries have BIG populations. The product is in demand in quantities not previously seen, except here, where it has been much cheaper than elsewhere for a long time. This demand is expected to only grow. Most people's(here) budgets are not flexible enough to handle the increase in costs to go shopping and the increase in goods themselves. More oil needs to be produced or we need something else to get from point A to B. This 'something else' is most likely not going to cost less. I'm not going to say people shouldn't cut down their consumption but I will say the only place the price for fuel will be affected (cheaper) is in those developing countries. If we are using less fuel, the demand thus supply won't be here to keep the price down. I can't imagine the US realistically cutting down on its dependency, for the very reasons developing countries will continue to increase theirs; convenience & freedom. It is also my understanding that these developing countries have very little in the way of environmental standards which also adds to the cost of our fuel. We were/are conservative w/travel to begin w/so there was/is very little travel to cut out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 3. Learn to can, spin wool, weave, farm, ranch and other necessary skills currently lacking. 4. Start making lists of people with necessary skills and talking them into ditching all possessions and moving to Idaho, Oregon, Montana or whatnot. I can knit and garden, and I could fake my way through weaving and sewing. Can I come? I always liked the sound of New Zealand. I have no idea whether sustainable living is possible there. But it sounds like it should be. I vote we move there. (Oh, and dh can do the dishes. I think that's worth a spot on the ark, don't you?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutor Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Actually my dh stopped at the store today to buy milk and it cost more than gas! And it was supposed to be on sale!!! Milk has cost more per gallon than gas here for about 4 months now. (Liquid milk, not dry milk. Dry milk is still cheaper... barely.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelroper Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Milk has cost more per gallon than gas here for about 4 months now. (Liquid milk, not dry milk. Dry milk is still cheaper... barely.) Same here, maybe for longer. It has been just under $5/gallon. I prefer organic, that is double unless on sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutor Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 2. Buy large, naturally irrigated farm that can substain a variety of crops. 3. Learn to can, spin wool, weave, farm, ranch and other necessary skills currently lacking. 4. Start making lists of people with necessary skills and talking them into ditching all possessions and moving to Idaho, Oregon, Montana or whatnot. 5. Spend all lottery money getting prepared (building buildings, getting solar/biodiesel generators set up, etc) setting enough aside for taxes until the world collapses. How does that look? Good to me. :001_smile: My dh and I are actually doing some of these things. We are learning hobbies based on practicality, looking for a couple of acres to buy cash so we have a place to live without paying rent or mortgage (even if that means living in a tent or caper for the short term), and buying equipment that provides for our hiking/ camping hobby that we could also use in a rustic living situation where we did not have access to electricity or running water. Many of the new hobbies we are learning from friends who already hold them and are willing to teach them to our family (including the kids). We have also focused on not buying plastic (that's really hard, esp. since there seem to be new health concerns with canned foods... lined with plastic) since it is a petrol product. It goes without saying that we reuse the glass jars. :001_smile: We aren't sure we can completely cut out plastic, but we've reduced our use greatly. As to moving to a single state, have you heard of the Free State Project? It is an attempt by libertarians (both small "L" and big) to get large numbers of libertarians and libertarian sympathizers to move to New Hampshire (chosen for many reasons) and tilt the political balance and prove that strict constitutionalism can work when practically applied. I am not sure how viable the project still is. They were trying to get 100,000 people to commit. They may need to pick a location with a longer growing season the way fuel prices are going, though. :001_smile: Oh, and if it wasn't evident... count me in. :D Where are we going? :auto: (sorry, there was no horse-and-buggy emoticon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquirer Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 And it would also help if we started learning more about how difficult (both logistically and bureaucratically) it is to remove oil from the ground and turn it into 500 different fuels. I can help you a little with this ... my dh is a project manager for an oil company. It is currently his job to add on to - not build, just add on to - an existing facility in Africa. The planning and scheduling started in the fall of last year and the work will be completed in 2011. His piece of the project will cost more than $500 million dollars. And this is a small job. One job that he has been associated with in the past took over 15 years of planning and 5 years of construction. Remember, we don't own the oil anymore ... we are often also dealing with unstable governments. This work - planning and building oil projects is often compared to the work NASA does. It is that detailed and that difficult. Many of you mentioned using the technologies that we already have ... do you know that if we were to run a city the size of Houston on solar power, we would need so many solar cells around and above the city that we would completely block out the sun. IMHO we should be focusing less on old, outdated technologies and start backing organizations and educational institutions that are looking for new **breakthrough** technologies that, although they may not help us now or in five years, could radically alter the future 20 years down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bassoon Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 4. Start making lists of people with necessary skills and talking them into ditching all possessions and moving to Idaho, Oregon, Montana or whatnot. OK, I can teach all our kids to play bassoon. Is that necessary? Where are we going? :auto: :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 As both India and China become more affluent, the prices of both oil and grain will continue to rise. We now have more dollars (or rupees) chasing fewer goods. Wealthy countries, primarily the EU and the US, have heavily subsidized agriculture for an extended period and dumped excess product onto the international market at below production costs. Because governments in the third world could buy grains more cheaply then they could domestically produce it, they have been under producing for their own people. The use of corn to make ethonyl does contribute to the increased cost of corn, but effects very little the major grain shortage, rice. The increase in oil costs is really just the weak dollar and larger international demand (China). IMO, the government should do absolutely nothing to decrease gasoline costs. The market will create incentives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Actually, that's really good to hear. My understanding is that shortages or caused by limited refinery capacity, not limited oil supplies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Tutor and Heather- Looking around on the internet (just for fun) I think Montana may be one of our better bets. I really *hate* the cold but we need someplace where water won't be an issue. There seem to be several large ranches/farms that are naturally irrigated and up for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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