Puzzled by common usage. . .

[Orthodox6]

As soon as I post this, I shall dive into a bunker and lock the door for safety !

 

There are two words, commonly used, which puzzle me. In particular, I wonder why these words are used as they are among educators who teach Latin as a key component of their work.

 

(1) The word agenda is plural, yet everybody around me uses it as a singular noun. (Agendum is the singular.)

 

(2) The word curriculum is singular, and its plural form is curricula. Everybody around me writes "curriculums" for the plural form.

 

I was taught original usage long before I ever studied Latin in college.

 

After the last bomb falls, I'll emerge from hiding. :D

[Brooketopia]

I simply did not know any of that. Thanks for sharing.

[Peek a Boo]

m-w.com :)

 

agenda:

1 : a list or outline of things to be considered or done <agendas of faculty meetings>

2 : an underlying often ideological plan or program <a political agenda>

 

 

 

Main Entry:

cur·ric·u·lum

Function:

noun

Inflected Form(s):

plural cur·ric·u·la Listen to the pronunciation of curricula \-lə\ also cur·ric·u·lums

 

 

while your original meaning may have been"more correct" at some point, the language has evolved to where "common usage" rules ;)

 

but i have the same problem w/ using gender instead of sex [and yeah, I've been through the whole discussion and know either is technically fine --it still bugs the carp outta me. :D

[Pamela H in Texas]

I have never heard about agendum.

 

I never say "curriculums" (looks funny!). I regularly use curricula, but in a few circumstances have struggled with whether to use curricula or curriculum.

 

Of course, this morning, it took me a whole 60 seconds to remember that FLED is the past tense of flee. Oy!

[Orthodox6]

Sometimes I like being old ! :D

[Dirtroad]

I think both may deal with the changing of language and situations. Spelling & vocabulary/meanings often change. They may begin as incorrect use of the language but later become so common as to be the norm.

[Ellie]

(2) The word curriculum is singular, and its plural form is curricula. Everybody around me writes "curriculums" for the plural form. :D

What bothers *me* is that people misuse the word altogether.

 

"Curriculum" (or curricula, as the case may be) to mean "that stack of books there," when actually it means "the course of study of an institution of education." Saxon's Math 76 is not curriculum; it is a text, or it's instructional materials, or something along those lines. The school administrators (or state legislators, or whoever) in which it is used decide what the math *curriculum* will be, then they look for the text or other material which will teach it. TWTM could be considered curriculum, as it describes the content of the courses; SWB reviews instructional materials which meet the curriculum.

 

So there you have it.:D

[Orthodox6]

What bothers *me* is that people misuse the word altogether.

 

"Curriculum" (or curricula, as the case may be) to mean "that stack of books there," when actually it means "the course of study of an institution of education." Saxon's Math 76 is not curriculum; it is a text, or it's instructional materials, or something along those lines. The school administrators (or state legislators, or whoever) in which it is used decide what the math *curriculum* will be, then they look for the text or other material which will teach it. TWTM could be considered curriculum, as it describes the content of the courses; SWB reviews instructional materials which meet the curriculum.

 

So there you have it.:D

 

:thumbup1: Thanks for the reminder !

[5KidzRUs]

What bothers *me* is that people misuse the word altogether.

 

"Curriculum" (or curricula, as the case may be) to mean "that stack of books there," when actually it means "the course of study of an institution of education." Saxon's Math 76 is not curriculum; it is a text, or it's instructional materials, or something along those lines. The school administrators (or state legislators, or whoever) in which it is used decide what the math *curriculum* will be, then they look for the text or other material which will teach it. TWTM could be considered curriculum, as it describes the content of the courses; SWB reviews instructional materials which meet the curriculum.

 

So there you have it.:D

 

Ellie, So are you saying that the curricula/um is non-tangible?

[latinteach]

As soon as I post this, I shall dive into a bunker and lock the door for safety !

 

There are two words, commonly used, which puzzle me. In particular, I wonder why these words are used as they are among educators who teach Latin as a key component of their work.

 

(1) The word agenda is plural, yet everybody around me uses it as a singular noun. (Agendum is the singular.)

 

(2) The word curriculum is singular, and its plural form is curricula. Everybody around me writes "curriculums" for the plural form.

 

I was taught original usage long before I ever studied Latin in college.

 

After the last bomb falls, I'll emerge from hiding. :D

 

Well, an "agenda" is a list of "things to be done." The word is from passive periphrastic/gerundive and it shows obligation. It's plural because the list includes more than one thing that must be done. An "agenda" is a list of all the stuff that we have to do. I guess if you had one thing to do, it would be an agendum, but then why would you need a list?

[KidsHappen]

I hear curricula/um used correctly especially here on this board but I have never heard that about agenda/um. I have understood it as others here are stating.

[lionfamily1999]

What bothers *me* is that people misuse the word altogether.

 

"Curriculum" (or curricula, as the case may be) to mean "that stack of books there," when actually it means "the course of study of an institution of education." Saxon's Math 76 is not curriculum; it is a text, or it's instructional materials, or something along those lines. The school administrators (or state legislators, or whoever) in which it is used decide what the math *curriculum* will be, then they look for the text or other material which will teach it. TWTM could be considered curriculum, as it describes the content of the courses; SWB reviews instructional materials which meet the curriculum.

 

So there you have it.:D

That's what has been bothering me since we started. I thought the curriculum was all of what you were doing (ie, our third grade curriculum includes blah blah blah). Here I thought I was wrong all along, because people talk about their math curriculum, their science curriculum, etc.

[skaterbabs]

:001_smile: Agenda being plural is new to me, but I did know that the plural of curriculum is curricula.

 

Thanks for teaching me something I didn't know before!

[AngelaNYC]

Although a curriculum is the whole course of study you use for all subjects, you can still have a math curriculum or a science curriculum. "Curriculum" can also mean a group of related courses in one particular field. So a science curriculum would be everything you do for that subject. Hmm, but what if your entire science curriculum consists of 1 text and nothing else. Is it still considered a curriculum? :tongue_smilie:

[Word Nerd]

According to AskOxford.com:

 

"Originally agenda was the plural of agendum, meaning 'a thing to be done'. However, it became applied to a list of things to be done, and in this, the most usual modern sense, it has become firmly singular, with the plural agendas. Compare with data."

 

It is considered standard English to use agenda as singular and agendas as plural. The Careful Writer declares that agendum is extinct.

[Orthodox6]

I realize that many of you undoubtedly are snickering off-screen at me. I am from a generation older than most of you all, and was taught (in the publics) very formal English, which we also all spoke at home. It is very difficult for me to feel at home with many contemporary verbal practices which always shall feel to me like slang/sloppiness. (Again, please make allowances for my generation.) I truly did expect that a group of educators, many of whom insist on teaching Latin, would be using these words in the traditional manner, rather than in the manner which our children would be hearing "from the outside."

 

I appreciate all the replies !

 

 

The Careful Writer declares that agendum is extinct.

 

So am I and my pet dodo bird ! :)

 

A small consolation from here: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agendum

 

agendum

 

One entry found.

 

 

 

Main Entry:agen·dum Pronunciation: \-dəm\ Function:noun Inflected Form(s):plural agen·da \-də\ or agen·dumsEtymology:LatinDate:circa 1847 1 : agenda 2 : an item on an agenda

Edited July 25, 2009 by Orthodox6

[EKS]

The curriculum/curricula thing drives me nuts. It seems to me that people on these boards are constantly using "curriculum" to mean curricula. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting.

[Word Nerd]

I truly did expect that a group of educators, many of whom insist on teaching Latin, would be using these words in the traditional manner, rather than in the manner which our children would be hearing "from the outside."

 

 

Just out of curiosity, do you use datum, stadia, and graffito?

[swimmermom3]

I realize that many of you undoubtedly are snickering off-screen at me. I am from a generation older than most of you all, and was taught (in the publics) very formal English, which we also all spoke at home. It is very difficult for me to feel at home with many contemporary verbal practices which always shall feel to me like slang/sloppiness. (Again, please make allowances for my generation.) I truly did expect that a group of educators, many of whom insist on teaching Latin, would be using these words in the traditional manner, rather than in the manner which our children would be hearing "from the outside."

 

I appreciate all the replies !

 

 

 

 

So am I and my pet dodo bird ! :)

 

A small consolation from here: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agendum

 

agendum

 

One entry found.

 

 

 

Main Entry:agen·dum Pronunciation: \-dəm\ Function:noun Inflected Form(s):plural agen·da \-də\ or agen·dumsEtymology:LatinDate:circa 1847 1 : agenda 2 : an item on an agenda

 

Orthodox6, do you feel this thread has "impacted" you significantly?;)

[Orthodox6]

Just out of curiosity, do you use datum, stadia, and graffito?

 

Good questions !

 

Yes, I use the word "datum".

 

When I read the word "stadia", my reflex was to wonder why you were enquiring about surveying ; I did not even think of the word "stadium" until later. Honestly, I don't think that I ever have used the word "stadium" in plural form ! (not a sports person) (so the jury remains out on that one. :) )

 

I have not had cause to use the word "graffito", because I never have seen an isolated graffito on a wall ! They don't seem to occur solo ! (although in theory, one could) Always have seen a large amount of such together, hence have used the plural form only.

 

Canvassing my old brain . . . I also say "personae" rather than "personas".

[Orthodox6]

So long as posters are being friendly, I'm perfectly at ease. The M.A. which I didn't have time to complete included a heavy component of linguistics. I find all this very interesting !

 

Orthodox6, do you feel this thread has "impacted" you significantly?;)

[freerange]

The Careful Writer declares that agendum is extinct.

Over here in England, agendum is alive and kicking in local government documentation.

[swimmermom3]

So long as posters are being friendly, I'm perfectly at ease. The M.A. which I didn't have time to complete included a heavy component of linguistics. I find all this very interesting !

 

I am thoroughly enjoying your thread. It is a pleasure to banter about word usage and to learn something new or relearn something forgotten. I asked you about the word "impacted" because I can not read a newspaper without seeing the word used numerous times. Until maybe 10 years ago, the only time I heard the word used was with regards to a bad tooth. For some reason, "impact" as a verb make me cringe. It sounds so "wrong".

[Orthodox6]

For many years now I have heard "purists" lament the surge of denominatives.

 

I am thoroughly enjoying your thread. It is a pleasure to banter about word usage and to learn something new or relearn something forgotten. I asked you about the word "impacted" because I can not read a newspaper without seeing the word used numerous times. Until maybe 10 years ago, the only time I heard the word used was with regards to a bad tooth. For some reason, "impact" as a verb make me cringe. It sounds so "wrong".

[Word Nerd]

I know I'm fighting a losing battle, but no matter how many times I hear it in common usage, I always cringe when I hear someone say, "in regards to." :tongue_smilie:

[Sparkle]

You forgot fora vs. forums :D

[MyThreeSons]

I knew about curriculum but not agendum.

[Nestof3]

I knew # 2 but not # 1. I guess you can assume that those of us that use it incorrectly have never learned otherwise. Thanks for sharing.

 

Oh, an Orthodox -- I just read about your upbringing. I grew up with a mom who used the word "chimley" rather than "chimney," "surgent" instead of "surgeon," and "we was" rather than "we were."

Edited July 26, 2009 by nestof3

[angela in ohio]

Has anyone read Carpe Diem? There is a really fun bit in there about whether to use the more correct form of a Latin word which has now been borrowed into the English language versus using the more common form.

 

I go on a case by case basis, being as correct as possible in most cases (I do say curricula,) but not so much so as to make others uncomfortable around me.

[angela in ohio]

Although a curriculum is the whole course of study you use for all subjects, you can still have a math curriculum or a science curriculum. "Curriculum" can also mean a group of related courses in one particular field. So a science curriculum would be everything you do for that subject. Hmm, but what if your entire science curriculum consists of 1 text and nothing else. Is it still considered a curriculum? :tongue_smilie:

 

Yes, and that is what most people do (use one book,) so they are using the word correctly.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I realize that many of you undoubtedly are snickering off-screen at me. I am from a generation older than most of you all, and was taught (in the publics) very formal English, which we also all spoke at home. It is very difficult for me to feel at home with many contemporary verbal practices which always shall feel to me like slang/sloppiness. (Again, please make allowances for my generation.) I truly did expect that a group of educators, many of whom insist on teaching Latin, would be using these words in the traditional manner, rather than in the manner which our children would be hearing "from the outside."

 

 

Actually, I truly enjoyed this thread...and I'm a youngin' at 35!

 

I can't stand :glare:...actually Can't Stand :ack2: improper grammatical or word usage.

 

Thank you for your wonderful reminder :)

[chaik76]

As soon as I post this, I shall dive into a bunker and lock the door for safety !

 

There are two words, commonly used, which puzzle me. In particular, I wonder why these words are used as they are among educators who teach Latin as a key component of their work.

 

(1) The word agenda is plural, yet everybody around me uses it as a singular noun. (Agendum is the singular.)

 

(2) The word curriculum is singular, and its plural form is curricula. Everybody around me writes "curriculums" for the plural form.

 

I was taught original usage long before I ever studied Latin in college.

 

After the last bomb falls, I'll emerge from hiding. :D

I use "curricula"!

I don't use "agendum" though...simply because most people have never heard of it. (And my spell-checker doesn't even recognize it!)

 

ETA: Current common usage of language is a pet of mine...I tend to use more slang than most, and I even (gasp!) teach it to my children!

Edited July 26, 2009 by chaik76

[Ellie]

Ellie, So are you saying that the curricula/um is non-tangible?

To a certain extent, yes, although there are people who write the *curriculum* for schools and colleges. It is up to the teachers (or administrators or whoever) to find the methods, instructional materials, labs, etc., that will be used to cover the requirements of the curriclum.

 

Our misuse of "curriculum" can be the cause of confusion, as when someone contacts her local school district and wants to know what the math curriculum is, and she gets a list of concepts that will be covered. What she actually wanted to know was the publisher of the math text used. Some state homeschool laws want to know what the *curriculum* is; what is wanted is the list of subjects that will be taught, not the list of textbooks or methodology used.

 

We will have more intelligent conversations with professionals if we use the same terminology they do, and *they* know what "curriculum" is. :-)

[johnandtinagilbert]

I use "curricula"!

I don't use "agendum" though...simply because most people have never heard of it. (And my spell-checker doesn't even recognize it!)

 

ETA: Current common usage of language is a pet of mine...I tend to use more slang than most, and I even (gasp!) teach it to my children!

 

we know and use slang (I have a very close young, 24yo, friend, so I need to be down)

 

I try and teach my dc it's a matter of company and location. When in Rome, you know!

[angela in ohio]

We will have more intelligent conversations with professionals if we use the same terminology they do, and *they* know what "curriculum" is. :-)

 

We have the opposite problem in Ohio. Our regulations call for us to detail our curricula for the year, yet when homeschoolers send in a list of what they are going to cover, they end up being asked for specific textbook names and copies of the TOC.

[KidsHappen]

Has anyone read Carpe Diem? There is a really fun bit in there about whether to use the more correct form of a Latin word which has now been borrowed into the English language versus using the more common form.

 

I go on a case by case basis, being as correct as possible in most cases (I do say curricula,) but not so much so as to make others uncomfortable around me.

 

 

I find myself perplexed on this very issue myself. Do I pronounce a word correctly and risk either that no one will understand me or that they will tell me that I am pronouncing it wrong in which case I will have to correct them and come across as a know it all or do I just go with current common usage? I try to adjust according to whom I am speaking.

 

It just so happens that my 70 years old neighbor is one of the few who actually speaking Latin quiet well. My dd was wearing a t-shirt with a Latin expression on it and he laughed and told her what it said. Somehow, I was not the least bit surprised. I really do think this man knows it all, he just has the good grace to share just a little bit of his knowledge at a time. I wish there were more people like him in the world. :)

[latinteach]

It just so happens that my 70 years old neighbor is one of the few who actually speaking Latin quiet well. My dd was wearing a t-shirt with a Latin expression on it and he laughed and told her what it said. Somehow, I was not the least bit surprised. I really do think this man knows it all, he just has the good grace to share just a little bit of his knowledge at a time. I wish there were more people like him in the world. :)

 

You're probably talking more about his good grace at sharing his knowledge a bit at a time, but he's not alone.

This is what happened at University of Kentucky (and about five other American universities) this summer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0emFzJ0oCQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKx_mVQRbpc

 

http://www.uky.edu/AS/Classics/aestivumeng.html

[abcinnc]

I do use curricula, but not agendum.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think the change comes as the words become more common in English and less and less examples of Latin words or phrases as borrowed words. I saw the same thing with English loan words into German, where the root was a borrowed word that was then conjugated or declined. One of our favorites was Ich habe schon gechecked, only to be matched by Hast du die Briefe gefaxed?

 

I think that is some of what is happening with words like agenda.

 

Now funny, datum sounds perfectly fine to me, because it is a term that was frequently used in one of my specialties in the Navy.

 

Another one that I like to use is alumna, alumnae for female graduates of my college.

 

I wonder if it only feels wrong because you know the proper usage in the original language. For example, I know that sushi and sashimi are different things, even though sushi is commonly used in English to mean either. Or the way that bratwurst is used to describe something much closer to metzwurst or even a krakauer. Distinctions that are significant in one context may not apply in another.

[Laura in CA]

I confess, I've always been partial to "stadia," haha (and yes, it does come up occasionally). I really like "fora," too. (OK, I'll admit it --I'm a pedant!) "Phenomena" (pl.) and "phenomenon" (sing.) used improperly also bother me. And "vertebrae" used for "vertebra."

 

A few phrases that bother me (and what's interesting is that the improper usage is almost plausible, so I can see how it has started to take hold -- all of a sudden I see these everywhere, even in the newspaper):

 

free reign

without further adieu

here, here

wet one's appetite

last rights

 

I could go on, but these don't really have to do with the OP -- just things that bother me!!

Edited July 27, 2009 by Laura in CA
clarity

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think the change comes as the words become more common in English and less and less examples of Latin words or phrases as borrowed words. I saw the same thing with English loan words into German, where the root was a borrowed word that was then conjugated or declined. One of our favorites was Ich habe schon gechecked, only to be matched by Hast du die Briefe gefaxed?

 

 

 

Exactly, this is the sort of thing that happens when foreign words are adopted into English but the majority of people who use the word are not familiar with the original language and its grammatical rules. There are also cases where we adopt foreign words and totally miss the meaning but continue to use them as if we understand the meaning and are correct. Thus they come to have a new definition entirely.

[asta]

My pet peeve is myriad.

 

There is no such thing as a myriad of something.

 

I like myriad foods, yes.

 

I do NOT like a myriad of foods.

 

 

a

[SheilaZ]

As soon as I post this, I shall dive into a bunker and lock the door for safety !

 

There are two words, commonly used, which puzzle me. In particular, I wonder why these words are used as they are among educators who teach Latin as a key component of their work.

 

(1) The word agenda is plural, yet everybody around me uses it as a singular noun. (Agendum is the singular.)

 

(2) The word curriculum is singular, and its plural form is curricula. Everybody around me writes "curriculums" for the plural form.

 

I was taught original usage long before I ever studied Latin in college.

 

After the last bomb falls, I'll emerge from hiding. :D

 

How about "forums" at the top of the page. That one makes me grin, especially on a Classical Education board.

 

I don't use "curricula" or "curriculum". I don't have a plan of study but I do have educational materials. I just overlook others using the word but when I see it I think of the big 3-ring-binder that the school system gave me that covered the "learning standards."

 

DH uses "agendum" so it's not dead. The US military is keeping that one alive in small pockets.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Good questions !

 

Yes, I use the word "datum".

 

When I read the word "stadia", my reflex was to wonder why you were enquiring about surveying ; I did not even think of the word "stadium" until later. Honestly, I don't think that I ever have used the word "stadium" in plural form ! (not a sports person) (so the jury remains out on that one. :) )

 

I have not had cause to use the word "graffito", because I never have seen an isolated graffito on a wall ! They don't seem to occur solo ! (although in theory, one could) Always have seen a large amount of such together, hence have used the plural form only.

 

Canvassing my old brain . . . I also say "personae" rather than "personas".

will you please come to my house and teach latin?

[johnandtinagilbert]

I find myself perplexed on this very issue myself. Do I pronounce a word correctly and risk either that no one will understand me or that they will tell me that I am pronouncing it wrong in which case I will have to correct them and come across as a know it all or do I just go with current common usage? I try to adjust according to whom I am speaking.

 

It just so happens that my 70 years old neighbor is one of the few who actually speaking Latin quiet well. My dd was wearing a t-shirt with a Latin expression on it and he laughed and told her what it said. Somehow, I was not the least bit surprised. I really do think this man knows it all, he just has the good grace to share just a little bit of his knowledge at a time. I wish there were more people like him in the world. :)

When I borrow Orthodox, I'd like to borrow your neighbor too!

[Ellie]

We have the opposite problem in Ohio. Our regulations call for us to detail our curricula for the year, yet when homeschoolers send in a list of what they are going to cover, they end up being asked for specific textbook names and copies of the TOC.

According to HSLDA, hsers are supposed to provide "…a brief outline of intended curriculum and list of textbooks or other basic teaching materials…" So yes, you're supposed to provide both (although asking for the TOC is a little over the top, IMHO; I wonder if any HSLDA members have resisted doing that).

[Orthodox6]

:blushing: Haven't taught it in ten years, and it's not on tap again until two years from now !

 

 

will you please come to my house and teach latin?

 

P.S. PUBLIC DISCLOSURE TO ALL READERS: Yes, the word "forums" has bugged me ever since I ran across this website, but I'm not about to tackle SWB as an opponent !

[Apiphobic]

Bunnicula

 

Bunniculum

 

:lol:

[angela in ohio]

According to HSLDA, hsers are supposed to provide "…a brief outline of intended curriculum and list of textbooks or other basic teaching materials…" So yes, you're supposed to provide both (although asking for the TOC is a little over the top, IMHO; I wonder if any HSLDA members have resisted doing that).

 

If you read the Ohio regulations, they are listed in two different sections. The first, the list of intended curriculum (item #6,) is the one where we have trouble. Even if there are some textbooks in the next list (item #7, which asks for the textbooks OR other teaching materials,) they want a complete list of textbooks for each and every subject for #6. Move to the wrong school district in Ohio and try it, you'll see. And then HSLDA will sometimes tell you to just go ahead and send a TOC. ;)

[Ellie]

I know I'm fighting a losing battle, but no matter how many times I hear it in common usage, I always cringe when I hear someone say, "in regards to." :tongue_smilie:

I cringe when I hear "hopefully.":tongue_smilie: