Fist fight between 2 moms question

[Nicole M]

That would have to be legally provable harassment though. If he just banned someone for things that couldn't be proven, he might find himself

being sued by the nutso/troublemaker in question.

 

I think private businesses have the right to deny service to anyone, don't they?

 

And, besides, it sounds like there were plenty of witnesses.

[Orthodox6]

Thank you for your kind reply.

 

I am far overdue (within this thread) with telling you how sorry I am that you have endured so rotten a situation, and for so long. It is clear that you are a nice person, and not someone who has derived any satisfaction from this trouble. :grouphug:

 

I didn't mean to intentionally decieve anyone on the boards or set anyone up. I am just trying to be obejctive but I see that I have to give more details since people are asking. I still do want your opinion. Thanks for giving it.

[The Governess]

Hmmm.....

 

What are the rules of conduct for this establishment? When you signed up for classes, services, etc. did you sign an agreement? Was there a contract stating what behaviors would not be tolerated and what the consequences would be (expulsion etc.)? If there is an agreement that the owner is not enforcing, then I would say he is not performing his responsibility. I would also say that he probably has the responsibility to let you out of any contract for future services.

 

This is a business, right? Not a school, or a government-provided service? It is a business you choose to purchase services from by choice, and at any time you could decide to leave? If so, you chose to continue taking your dd to this place, even though all this bad behavior was happening. Yes, it does sound like the business owner is running a bad business. But you could have walked away from it at any time. You decided to stay, with knowledge that this was a poor, hostile environment, and IMO the ultimate responsibility is yours. I hope that doesn't sound harsh, it's just my take on where the responsibility lies in this situation.

[Momof2kids]

Not looking to sue owner. Good relationship there. Hindsight situation. Prob didn't expect to get this out of hand.

 

Just wondering how far I push it with owner "personally" and do I heap any demands/ultimatiums on owner?

[Tree House Academy]

Personally, if this were me, I would have left the facility a long time ago. Are these other homeschooling moms??? I will be SHOCKED if they are.

 

During the last school year that my son attended public school, he had a bully. On the last day of school, I SAW the bully wait for him outside the class and punch him (for no reason...my son was walking straight ahead and didn't even see the other kid). Mistakenly, I grabbed my son's hand and told the child to keep his hands off of my son. I also added that, the next time I saw anything like this, we would be making a trip to the principal. I said this in a hall full of people (witnesses), but in hindsight, I should have gone DIRECTLY to the principal and not said a word to the child.

 

Well, the child knew he was caught and being an incredible LIAR from a very rough background, he told his grandmother (who is raising him) that I called him a fat little bastard and told him I would kill him if he touched my son again. Totally, 100% not true, and proven by witnesses to the principal. However, the grandma was inclined to believe her grandson. I absolutely kills me to think there is an adult out there that believes I said that sort of thing to a child. However, it was my fault for not just taking my son to the principal and keeping my mouth SHUT. Hard lesson learned.

 

However, that was also the year I added my older ds to our homeschool - and the bully situation, in part, played a role in my final decision. I don't think this made us "cowards" - I wasn't ever "afraid" of anyone. But I am not some white trash mother and I don't intend to engage in that sort of behavior or that sort of mess. Pulling my son out and moving on was the best thing we have ever done.

 

All this to say, I would leave the facility and stay away from this trashy troublemaker mom. Know you are the bigger person for walking away. Blaming others will not change what happened. Just walk away.

[Momof2kids]

Hmmm.....

 

 

But you could have walked away from it at any time. You decided to stay, with knowledge that this was a poor, hostile environment, and IMO the ultimate responsibility is yours. I hope that doesn't sound harsh, it's just my take on where the responsibility lies in this situation.

 

 

I hear you and I get that from other people too. Thanks.

[Tree House Academy]

Not looking to sue owner. Good relationship there. Hindsight situation. Prob didn't expect to get this out of hand.

 

Just wondering how far I push it with owner "personally" and do I heap any demands/ultimatiums on owner?

 

No. I would say that it is not the responsibility of the owner to keep families from arguing. Now, if this person is causing trouble with everyone at the place and just being a nuissance, then the owner should take action (though still, I can't say that the owner would be legally responsible for taking action) and ban the family. However, he/she is also stuck in the middle between two good customers, so his/her position is much different than yours. The only right you have here is to walk away or stay and put up with whatever. The owner *owes* you nothing. You can try "demanding" but I am not sure that will get you anywhere.

[unsinkable]

I would assume that if mom #1 just walked away, then others who were witnessing this would step in and attempt to mediate. There were several witnesses according to the OP.

 

It was NOT a man hitting a woman. If it was, likely the woman wouldn't have been standing after the first punch.

 

Rebecca,

 

I was asking hypothetically.

 

I assume NOTHING when it comes to physical violence. Anyone who would sucker punch another person is capable of anything.

 

I do not judge people for their nonviolent stance. I would expect the nonviolent proponents not to judge those who have to defend themselves during a violent attack.

[secular_mom]

Not looking to sue owner. Good relationship there. Hindsight situation. Prob didn't expect to get this out of hand.

 

Just wondering how far I push it with owner "personally" and do I heap any demands/ultimatiums on owner?

 

I wasn't implying that you were planning to sue the owner, what I meant was that mom #1 may have tried to sue him if he had banned her earlier, for harassment that wasn't provable in court. KWIM?

[Tree House Academy]

Rebecca,

 

I was asking hypothetically.

 

I assume NOTHING when it comes to physical violence. Anyone who would sucker punch another person is capable of anything.

 

I do not judge people for their nonviolent stance. I would expect the nonviolent proponents not to judge those who have to defend themselves during a violent attack.

 

I would absoluletly feel differently if it was a violent attack...say someone entered my home. But this was a situation where one could have walked away long ago, but chose not to. And again, I just find it a bit trashy when grown women fist fight each other. Sorry.

[secular_mom]

I would absoluletly feel differently if it was a violent attack...say someone entered my home. But this was a situation where one could have walked away long ago, but chose not to. And again, I just find it a bit trashy when grown women fist fight each other. Sorry.

 

I'm pretty sure that saying a board member is 'trashy' is at least PUSHING the rules.

[unsinkable]

I would absoluletly feel differently if it was a violent attack...say someone entered my home. But this was a situation where one could have walked away long ago, but chose not to. And again, I just find it a bit trashy when grown women fist fight each other. Sorry.

 

Am I reading this correctly? A sucker punch isn't violent enough for you?

 

How can you walk away from a sucker punch "a long time ago?"

 

ETA: The sucker puncher got arrested for assault. That's violent in my book.

Edited June 18, 2009 by unsinkable

[Word Nerd]

I would absoluletly feel differently if it was a violent attack...say someone entered my home. But this was a situation where one could have walked away long ago, but chose not to. And again, I just find it a bit trashy when grown women fist fight each other. Sorry.

 

What do you consider a violent attack? Is it only trashy when a woman fights back when she's assaulted by another woman, or would she also be trashy if she defended herself against a man?

[Catwoman]

Looks like I missed a lot of excitement this morning, and since the OP has deleted most of her posts, I am a bit confused about what happened.

 

Did this incident occur in some sort of sports facility or something?

 

My main question to Momof2Kids is -- are you ok? Were you injured?

 

Cat

[Nicole M]

Not looking to sue owner. Good relationship there. Hindsight situation. Prob didn't expect to get this out of hand.

 

Just wondering how far I push it with owner "personally" and do I heap any demands/ultimatiums on owner?

 

Okay, I misunderstood what you meant by "push it" then. Do you have access to a person who could serve as a mediator, to facilitate a conversation between you and the owner? I'm thinking more along the lines of a counsellor type person. It is clear that you were wounded by this whole thing, and a great deal of healing could take place if you had a way to engage in a "safe" conversation with the owner.

 

I only know part of the story, sure, but if it were me, I would sure appreciate an apology from the owner, or at least an "I'm so sorry this happened, and in the future I will never allow someone who is potentially dangerous to continue to be involved with my business." Or something along those lines. I'm sure he's rattled by this whole thing, too.

[Tree House Academy]

I'm pretty sure that saying a board member is 'trashy' is at least PUSHING the rules.

 

 

I am pretty sure I never said that the member here was trashy. I said that the act of two grown women fist fighting is trashy (and this is MY opinion. The OP asked for opinions about the situation. This is mine.)

[Tree House Academy]

What do you consider a violent attack? Is it only trashy when a woman fights back when she's assaulted by another woman, or would she also be trashy if she defended herself against a man?

 

Again, I find the entire act of two grown women having a fist fight trashy...not to mention having a fist fight in a parking lot of a place where your kids take classes.

 

Someone punching her is NOT a violent attack IMO. It is a childish act that I would hope I had enough restraint to walk away from. However, I likely would have walked away LONG before it got to that point, myself.

 

Just to clairify...the ACT seems trashy to me. I don't know the actual people and did NOT call anyone names (which I also find juvenile and ridiculous).

[Nicole M]

Again, I find the entire act of two grown women having a fist fight trashy...not to mention having a fist fight in a parking lot of a place where your kids take classes.

 

Someone punching her is NOT a violent attack IMO. It is a childish act that I would hope I had enough restraint to walk away from. However, I likely would have walked away LONG before it got to that point, myself.

 

Just to clairify...the ACT seems trashy to me. I don't know the actual people and did NOT call anyone names (which I also find juvenile and ridiculous).

 

Have you never been punched? It is violent.

[Impish]

Again, I find the entire act of two grown women having a fist fight trashy...not to mention having a fist fight in a parking lot of a place where your kids take classes.

 

Someone punching her is NOT a violent attack IMO. It is a childish act that I would hope I had enough restraint to walk away from. However, I likely would have walked away LONG before it got to that point, myself.

 

Just to clairify...the ACT seems trashy to me. I don't know the actual people and did NOT call anyone names (which I also find juvenile and ridiculous).

I think if someone punched me, I'd consider it to be pretty violent.

[Tree House Academy]

Have you never been punched? It is violent.

 

Sure I have - in middle school once and then by my DAD if you really need to know. I learned to walk away. I am a bigger person than that and to get in some grade school scuffle with them - especially my dad - would have resulted in a lot more than a sucker punch.

 

Sure, hitting is violent, but a punch is not something that you can't walk away from in my opinion. Sorry you all don't like my opinion, but that isn't going to change it.:glare:

[KidsHappen]

Mom, so sorry that you had to go through that and I do hope that you are alright. I personally would have defended myself as well. You can not expect the public to protect or defend you and I don't see what difference the gender of the attacker makes. :grouphug:

[Tree House Academy]

I think if someone punched me, I'd consider it to be pretty violent.

 

Let me respond with this...(see underlined)

 

Someone punching her is NOT a violent attack IMO. It is a childish act that I would hope I had enough restraint to walk away from. However, I likely would have walked away LONG before it got to that point, myself.

[Nicole M]

Sure I have - in middle school once and then by my DAD if you really need to know. I learned to walk away. I am a bigger person than that and to get in some grade school scuffle with them - especially my dad - would have resulted in a lot more than a sucker punch.

 

Sure, hitting is violent, but a punch is not something that you can't walk away from in my opinion. Sorry you all don't like my opinion, but that isn't going to change it.:glare:

 

But you said it wasn't a violent act.

 

I'm sorry you were hit. I don't dislike your opinion, I just don't understand it.

 

I think we all agreed that the whole situation was sad and that there might have been many opportunities to shut down the escalating situation before it got to punching. But at the end of the day, she was hit, she was the victim of a violent act. To cast judgement at this point is not kind.

[Tree House Academy]

I would also like to say that I am not sure how this thread went from the OP asking for advice on whether or not the owner would be responsible for what happened turned to whether or not the "attacker" was a man or a woman, why one should fight back, etc.

 

In the beginning, I expressed my opinion of the ACT of the two moms after stating that I didn't see any of it to be the owner's fault. Also, the OP did not give all the details. It doesn't change my opinion, and the OP also stated that this was ongoing and someone even pushed her CHILD prior to this. I think this whole thing could have been stopped long before it started by someone saying, "nope, that's it! I am done" and walking away.

 

I am not going to debate with others whether or not the act of two women fist fighting in a parking lot is trashy or not. I am also not going to hypothetically wonder "what if it was a man?" Those things are basically irrevelant.

 

I am definitely sorry that the OP had this happen. I would be upset if this happened to me. However, I likely would not ask for the opinions of others considering that everyone comes from a different background and has a different personality.

 

Again, sorry if my opinion is not popular (at least not publically...), but again, the comments won't change that.

[myfunnybunch]

Not looking to sue owner. Good relationship there. Hindsight situation. Prob didn't expect to get this out of hand.

 

Just wondering how far I push it with owner "personally" and do I heap any demands/ultimatiums on owner?

 

Jumping in a little late here, it seems, but this sprang to my mind when I read your question:

 

If you have a good relationship with the owner, and you understand that he did not expect the situation to get this far out of hand perhaps some grace is in order. I expect that he is horrified, appalled, embarrassed and worried about what will come about out of this whole situation.

 

Applying the same hindsight to yourself as you're applying to the owner, what would you expect yourself to have done differently to prevent this from happening? I don't know the answer to that. But it's important to determine your own personal responsibility before you try to determine what others should or should not have done. (And I see you're trying to do that here, and I'm sensing that you're still not sure. Totally understandable.)

 

Do you want to continue the relationship or leave the gym altogether? If you'd like to continue, you may want to consider...if your roles were reversed, you in the owner's shoes and he in yours, what would you find most helpful, kind, supportive? Will demands and ultimatums help or hurt the situation? How can you work together to heal and make peace? I don't mean in a wishy-washy sort of way. I do mean that you will make far more progress if you try to approach the problem as something to solve together.

 

The issue of whether or not the owner should have banned an unpleasant discord-sowing family is separate from the issue of whether or not he should have predicted violence. The first is a gym policy. The second is something he had no way of knowing. So (gingerly) I think if it has not yet been offered, an apology to the owner for getting into a fight in the parking lot might be in order. Even if you didn't start it, even if you were defending yourself, even if you decide that you were partly in the right.

 

I'm sorry this happened to you. It sounds absolutely horrible.

 

Cat

Edited June 18, 2009 by myfunnybunch

[Impish]

Treehouse, I happen to agree with you *see my previous response* regarding the whole thing being wildly out of control, and more like something expected from highschool students, not supposed mature, responsible adults.

 

I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around it, to be honest.

[Tree House Academy]

But you said it wasn't a violent act.

 

I'm sorry you were hit. I don't dislike your opinion, I just don't understand it.

 

I think we all agreed that the whole situation was sad and that there might have been many opportunities to shut down the escalating situation before it got to punching. But at the end of the day, she was hit, she was the victim of a violent act. To cast judgement at this point is not kind.

 

Someone punching her is NOT a violent attack IMO. It is a childish act that I would hope I had enough restraint to walk away from. However, I likely would have walked away LONG before it got to that point, myself.

 

Just to clairify...the ACT seems trashy to me. I don't know the actual people and did NOT call anyone names (which I also find juvenile and ridiculous).

 

 

 

I never said it wasn't a voilent action...I said it wasn't a "violent attack" as one poster put it. (see post above)

 

So, when I said that it seemed trashy in the first post, back on page 3 before she posted that she was Mom#2. that was okay...but to still believe that now is unkind? Hmmm...guess I am not a nice person then.

 

I am just not going to candy-coat it. She was talking about making the owner take some responsibility and giving him ultimatums and such and I whole heartedly think the blame lays on her sholders for sticking around in a volitile situation as much as it does on the person who punched her. Weren't they both having a verbal fight before it came to blows. Once mom #2 threw the second punch, the fight was a brawl. Before that, she was the victim.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[Nicole M]

I never said it wasn't a voilent action...I said it wasn't a "violent attack" as one poster put it. (see post above)

 

So, when I said that it seemed trashy in the first post, back on page 3 before she posted that she was Mom#2. that was okay...but to still believe that now is unkind? Hmmm...guess I am not a nice person then.

 

I am just not going to candy-coat it. She was talking about making the owner take some responsibility and giving him ultimatums and such and I whole heartedly think the blame lays on her sholders for sticking around in a volitile situation as much as it does on the person who punched her. Weren't they both having a verbal fight before it came to blows. Once mom #2 threw the second punch, the fight was a brawl. Before that, she was the victim.

 

Well, thank you for clarifying.

 

I don't know what to say about the last part. I agree with you to a point. I do find your tone defensive and hostile and, if I were the OP, it would not helpful. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

[Tammy]

I wish I could read the original post, LOL!

 

.

[Nicole M]

Jumping in a little late here, it seems, but this sprang to my mind when I read your question:

 

If you have a good relationship with the owner, and you understand that he did not expect the situation to get this far out of hand perhaps some grace is in order. I expect that he is horrified, appalled, embarrassed and worried about what will come about out of this whole situation.

 

Applying the same hindsight to yourself as you're applying to the owner, what would you expect yourself to have done differently to prevent this from happening? I don't know the answer to that. But it's important to determine your own personal responsibility before you try to determine what others should or should not have done. (And I see you're trying to do that here, and I'm sensing that you're still not sure. Totally understandable.)

 

Do you want to continue the relationship or leave the gym altogether? If you'd like to continue, you may want to consider...if your roles were reversed, you in the owner's shoes and he in yours, what would you find most helpful, kind, supportive? Will demands and ultimatums help or hurt the situation? How can you work together to heal and make peace? I don't mean in a wishy-washy sort of way. I do mean that you will make far more progress if you try to approach the problem as something to solve together.

 

The issue of whether or not the owner should have banned an unpleasant discord-sowing family is separate from the issue of whether or not he should have predicted violence. The first is a gym policy. The second is something he had no way of knowing. So (gingerly) I think if it has not yet been offered, an apology to the owner for getting into a fight in the parking lot might be in order. Even if you didn't start it, even if you were defending yourself, even if you decide that you were partly in the right.

 

I'm sorry this happened to you. It sounds absolutely horrible.

 

Cat

 

This is a wise and compassionate post. Well said.

[Momof2kids]

This is a wise and compassionate post. Well said.

 

 

I agree. Thank you. I am still mulling things over.

 

BTW while you were all writing I was at the dr. office being diaganosed with a concussion. I've had some symptoms since it happened and got it checked out.

 

The situation was not that escalated to begin with. I never saw it coming. we were standing next to eachother like any other 2 people talking. I never felt danger. never had that feeling in my gut. I really never ever expected this.

[Catwoman]

I wish I could read the original post, LOL!

 

 

I wish I could read it, too. I'm a little confused about all of the details that are being debated, and I wish that several posts hadn't been deleted.

 

Cat

[Denisemomof4]

Someone punching her is NOT a violent attack IMO. It is a childish act that I would hope I had enough restraint to walk away from. However, I likely would have walked away LONG before it got to that point, myself.

 

 

 

Oh my! I must respectfully disagree!

 

One sucker punch can break a nose, break a jaw, break an eye socket, burst an eardrum, can cause a concussion. One sucker punch IS violent when an arrest for assault has taken place!

 

Spoken by someone who has been a victim of violence before.......

[Tree House Academy]

Oh my! I must respectfully disagree!

 

One sucker punch can break a nose, break a jaw, break an eye socket, burst an eardrum, can cause a concussion. One sucker punch IS violent when an arrest for assault has taken place!

 

Spoken by someone who has been a victim of violence before.......

 

 

Do you believe that, because it is such, the victim must then retaliate with voilence? Or do you think there is room to walk away?

[Denisemomof4]

Mom, so sorry that you had to go through that and I do hope that you are alright. I personally would have defended myself as well. You can not expect the public to protect or defend you and I don't see what difference the gender of the attacker makes. :grouphug:

:iagree:

 

I'd think it was your RESPONSIBILITY to stick up for yourself. Honestly, if someone is so out of control to punch you, they probably would have chased you down and continue to beat on you.

 

I don't know if I would have punched back, but nobody can truly say what they "would have done" until they are in that situation.

 

I hope you're feeling better.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

I agree. Thank you. I am still mulling things over.

 

BTW while you were all writing I was at the dr. office being diaganosed with a concussion. I've had some symptoms since it happened and got it checked out.

 

The situation was not that escalated to begin with. I never saw it coming. we were standing next to eachother like any other 2 people talking. I never felt danger. never had that feeling in my gut. I really never ever expected this.

 

Oh I'm SO SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So very sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

Do you believe that, because it is such, the victim must then retaliate with voilence? Or do you think there is room to walk away?

 

I can't say with her situation, but with mine - I ran for my life. Unfortunately, I was caught. (was on a date, decades ago, but this whole physical thing really still bothers me!)

 

I honestly don't know whether or not she should have handled things differently, but the other woman may not have ALLOWED her to walk away.

 

I just feel so awful reading this entire thread! Why am I doing this to myself? Like I don't have enough stress! Last time I picked up the computer while mom slept, I read "the Greater Depression" thread and was totally down then, too.

 

Sorry, those are my ramblings.

:sad:

Edited June 18, 2009 by Denisemomof4

[hsmom3tn]

I wish I'd read the original post as well because I'm sort of lost as to what happened. What I have been able to read, though, has made me think about how I would handle something like this as a grown up, especially if my kids were present. I guess one can't honestly say what they would or would not do until presented with the situation.

 

I remember an altercation between myself and another girl when I was in high school. She was a little older than most of the girls in our class and basically a bully. She had been picking on my sister on the school bus and my parents were upset with me for not "kicking her butt". Probably not the best parenting advice, lol, but even as a teenager I knew that "kicking her butt" was not the right thing to do. I was discussing this with some friends one day in the hallway at school and another girl walking by happened to hear the conversation. She wanted to instigate a fight, so she went to "the bully" and told her what she had heard.

 

"The bully" then comes up to me and starts yelling in my face, "you're gonna kick my butt, come on and do it now, etc." And then she shoved me against the lockers, and was about to hit me. I knew my own strength and temper, and knew that I could have seriously hurt her if I wanted to, so instead of hitting back, I restrained her so that she couldn't take any more swings and walked her to the principal's office. The teachers knew that I was not a trouble maker so I didn't get into any trouble, but she did. My sister and I did not have any trouble out of her after that incident.

[Catwoman]

I just read that you have a concussion. I'm so sorry to hear that! :grouphug:

 

Please take good care of yourself!

 

Cat

[melissel]

:iagree:

 

I'd think it was your RESPONSIBILITY to stick up for yourself. Honestly, if someone is so out of control to punch you, they probably would have chased you down and continue to beat on you.

 

I don't know if I would have punched back, but nobody can truly say what they "would have done" until they are in that situation.

 

I hope you're feeling better.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

ITA with Denise. I'm imagining myself in that kind of situation, and the idea of turning my back on someone that nuts...well, I think that could be more dangerous than just standing your ground. Someone that crazy probably wouldn't hesitate to take your refusal to fight back as an opportunity to get a few more shots in. I'd like to think that I'd be able to walk away, but in reality, I just don't know what I'd do. It would depend on so many in-the-moment variables. And I would NEVER trust the crowd to hold someone back or protect me. I've seen enough ballgame and street fair fights to know that most people do NOT intervene unless someone's really being held down and getting the snot beaten out of them. They generally wait for the cops to show up.

 

Mom, I didn't read your original post, but I think I get the gist, and that just totally stinks. I don't think I'd be holding the owner responsible for what happened in the past, but I would expect the people/families involved to be banned, and if they were not, I'd be walking out the door myself. Other than that, I think the owner showed some poor judgment, but I agree with someone else who said that some grace is probably in order. I'm sure it's hard to be stuck between clients and in a gray area where you can't really prove anything "wrong" was actually done to anyone else, etc.

 

I'm sorry it all went down the way it did. I'd definitely be pursuing some legal action against your assailant! That's just insane.

[kalanamak]

 

Just wondering how far I push it with owner "personally" and do I heap any demands/ultimatiums on owner?

 

In my personal style, I wouldn't waste any time on the situation. No use throwing good after bad. I'd never go back, never call, and probably not return a call.

[Audrey]

 

This crap just blows my mind. Kind of thing you expect to see outside a highschool, not at a child's class, btwn parents.

 

 

 

Haven't been to pee-wee hockey lately, have you? I agree public brawling is ridiculous crap, and I can't understand what motivates grown adults to do such a thing, but I have seen it before.

 

And, yes... one loses all respect for the brawlers quite quickly. :glare:

[unsinkable]

Haven't been to pee-wee hockey lately, have you? I agree public brawling is ridiculous crap, and I can't understand what motivates grown adults to do such a thing, but I have seen it before.

 

And, yes... one loses all respect for the brawlers quite quickly. :glare:

 

When I read the story, I actually thought of hockey. Fistfights btwn moms & moms sleeping coaches = youth hockey.