Are "kids today" really that bad?

[melissel]

I don't want to have that attitude. I really don't. I've always been of the mindset that every generation says that about the kids of the next generation, etc. But given the stories I read here (i.e., the texting) and the things I hear from my mom about the teenage boys she's trying to train to do work for her around the rectory (she manages a church office), I'm just totally blown away at how kids seem to be acting. Now, my kids are little, and most of our friends are homeschooling (or are of that type of parenting mindset). Two of the teenagers in our family are DREAM teenagers, the kind every parent hopes for. They truly are amazing kids, and I'm dying to know how their parents managed it. The other two, I don't see that often, but I hear stories filtered through the family grapevine, and they to be pretty normal (in spite of some family drama).

 

Honestly, is it really THAT bad everywhere? Are most of the kids you see on a regular basis undisciplined slackers attached to their electronic devices? I'm horrified at the stories my mom tells me, and I know they're true. So far, pretty much everything else has been hearsay :lol:

 

WDYT?

[Tammy]

I would think it is the parents.....You have to teach your kids how to 'act'....right?

 

.

[Dirtroad]

Friend 1... son is 23 and has NO job. He likes to play video games & can't find anyone to pay him. He speaks and looks lazy in his dress & personal presentation. They can't keep their gas on in the winter... yet he lives at home. Horrible.

 

Friend 2... mom needs cell phone for DD12 to take to skating rink in case of problems. DD17 screams at her Mom & refuses to give up the phone (stomping, all very dramatic). Mom tells DD12 to just borrow a phone from another Mom b/c DD17 is having a bad day. WHAT???

 

Friend 3... kids don't help with anything. NO cleaning, no picking up their own rooms, no helping in the yard. They play video games and ball. Mom and Dad do it all & are failing these kids miserably (don't even know it yet).

 

Friend 4... kids are 12 & 10... they are expected to do household chores, help parents when they volunteer at events, and do more academic work than the poor public school assigns. They are sharp..... they are well mannered & helpful young people... THEY ARE WEIRD in their neighborhood & can't play enough with other kids.

 

Friend 5... daughter is junior in college & has never had a job. She did babysit... but I mean a real paycheck job. She goes to a very expensive school and is off for a class in NYC for 1 month (own parents dime). They never wanted her to work b/c it might interfere with her education. So, they have a daughter who had not vacuumed or washed a load of laundry before her high school graduation. What a wonderful employee she will make for someone.

 

I think kids are the same - do what is expected & as little as possible (on average). I think it is the parents who are FAILING horribly & sadly. I think an entire generation of parents is trying to make life easy & fun for kids & not prepare them for the "real world" - jobs, responsiblity, discipline, self-respect, dependability... you name it. They are overfocused on emotions & feelings... not on teaching & preparing children/teens for life (adulthood).

Edited June 8, 2009 by Dirtroad

[MIch elle]

I have 2 boys - 1 teenager & another pre-teen and all the kids we know (neighbors that go to school & homeschoolers) are good kids. Yes, they spend too much time on video games, instant messaging, etc. but when I was that age I did watch lots of TV & talk on the phone.

[Pink Fairy]

I think kids acting out is a symptom of family life today. Almost always their poor behavior is tolerated or even encouraged by their crappy parents. I'm not talking about kids with issues--mental or physical disabilities, for example. I'm talking about kids with no self-discipline, too much time and money, not enough supervision, and no purpose beyond gratifying themselves in every way.

 

Of course, I'm a little jaded, because my dh comes home from work and entertains me with stories about the little darlings he teaches at the local public hs.

[Sophia]

 

I think kids are the same - do what is expected & as little as possible (on average). I think it is the parents who are FAILING horribly & sadly. I think an entire generation of parents is trying to make life easy & fun for kids & not prepare them for the "real world" - jobs, responsiblity, discipline, self-respect, dependability... you name it. They are overfocused on emotions & feelings... not on teaching & preparing children/teens for life (adulthood).

 

:iagree:

[Dirtroad]

I think kids acting out is a symptom of family life today. Almost always their poor behavior is tolerated or even encouraged by their crappy parents. I'm not talking about kids with issues--mental or physical disabilities, for example. I'm talking about kids with no self-discipline, too much time and money, not enough supervision, and no purpose beyond gratifying themselves in every way.

 

Of course, I'm a little jaded, because my dh comes home from work and entertains me with stories about the little darlings he teaches at the local public hs.

 

Too much time & too much money... made me remember a statement that my grandfather used to use.... idle hands are the devil's playground! That just popped in my noodle as I read your post.

 

It is easier as a parent to pop in a video for the little ones or in the van.... or give the older one a video game to keep them occupied than it is to communicate, plan, and get things done together. It gets them out of the parents hair!

Edited June 9, 2009 by Dirtroad

[JennW in SoCal]

I don't think you can just blame the parents. I am the mother of teens, I am an aunt to several 20 somethings, and I know many teens through homeschooling and church and theater, and you just can't blame the parent for all the bad behavior you see. We are all guilty of one transgression or another.

 

Some teens are motivated and want to work on their personal goals and interests, others are far more interested in and influenced by their peers. There is a pack mentality to many teens, and if they as a group decide it is uncool to act responsibly, then they, as a pack, will be trouble.

 

I pity the teens from the local high schools who are in conformist pressure cookers of AP classes and community service credit hours and multiple applications to top ranked colleges. They have no chance to ever think for themselves, and I think it shows in their pack-mentality and behavior. I also see the pack mentality in some homeschool teens as well, but usually they have individual interests and are supportive of each other's interests.

 

It isn't over even after college, either. A friend who teaches college, and whose homeschooled dd got her BA last year, was just lamenting to me about these aimless college graduates. Their entire lives have been about getting into a good college, then getting that expensive degree in 4 years, and now that they are out they haven't a clue about what to do next. They've all moved home and can't even find measly hourly jobs. She said to me "what are we as a culture doing to these kids that they can't seem to take control over their own lives?"

 

My dear sister-in-law, who by many measurements was an excellent parent, is facing situations with her 20somethings that would make your toes curl! You think you're done when they are 18, but there is so much more to come!

 

So please don't blame parents, electronics or just "kids today" but look to instilling responsibility in your own kids and to encouraging them to pursue their unique interests. And don't be quick to judge, because you never know what you will have to face as a parent a few years down the road!

[Ginevra]

I think you have your slackers and your kids with 'tude, but I know several teens and young adults whom I like. Out of my neices and nephews:

One family has 23yods, 19yodd, 17yodd. These three are very decent kids. They are not "DREAM" kids; they have had their little problems over the years, ie., one got drunk at a high school dance. Overall, though, reasonably respectful, pleasant to talk with, have their act together, doing their schoolwork diligently.

 

Other family has four kids; two in college and two out of college. Out of the adults, one is a slacker, but is not a "nasty" person. He's not ambitious, but he has a job. He's kind of a slob, IMO. One is a hard worker, a nice guy, looks decent and acts nice. He, in my opinion, is not working up to his education. Perhaps this will just come later, or maybe he just doesn't care. One is a lovely girl; I would be proud if she were my daughter. She finished college and post-graduate and is starting a good job. The youngest is a decent guy, going to college. Does his work diligently, reasonably nice.

 

I could also name some teens I know in my homeschooling co-op. There are a couple that I don't particularly like (sullen, have a 'tude), but the majority seem like nice, happy, respectful, good kids.

 

I have seen my share of ill-behaved teenagers, but I don't think it is any different "these days" from any other generation.

[Dianne-TX]

I think kids are the same - do what is expected & as little as possible (on average). I think it is the parents who are FAILING horribly & sadly. I think an entire generation of parents is trying to make life easy & fun for kids & not prepare them for the "real world" - jobs, responsiblity, discipline, self-respect, dependability... you name it. They are overfocused on emotions & feelings... not on teaching & preparing children/teens for life (adulthood).

 

:iagree:

 

Also, our founding fathers had a generational perspective and leaders thereafter, for the most part. They were thinking of future generations and made decisions based on that. We haven't had that for a loooooong time and we've gone through many generations of parents who don't have a future generation perspective either. It's all about me, myself and I for many parents and keeping the kids occupied with activities, electronics, friends, etc. so they can continue their "life" even with kids.

[Halftime Hope]

I won't go into detailed specifics, but I will disagree that it is always the parents to blame.

 

For the most part, yeah, I'd give you that, but sometimes there are other things going on and it takes a few more years for kids to bloom and fulfill their potential.

 

A df and I were discussing the trend we've noticed in our homeschool support group, and correlating it with what their family counselor had pointed out to her, that often times kids with LDs tend to bloom and hit developmental stages a couple of years behind their peers.

 

I suspect that accounts for some of what I'm observing--I'm thinking of a handful of specific young adults that I know have LDs--who just seem to need another year or two to find their feet and start acting responsibly like the adults that their ages say they are.

 

Mind you, these kids don't really have a 'tude, nor are they slackers, they just seem to not "get adult life" for awhile.

[Renee in NC]

It isn't that the kids are different, it is that 25 is the new 18.

 

I think there is a difference in how society treats teens and it isn't good. By all accounts, these kids are physically adults a good 10 years before we let them be adults. They have no purpose, no true responsibility, and don't expect to be allowed any anytime soon.

 

At 18, my grandmother was teaching school and married. In my mother's generation, many were marrying right out of high school (she was married at 15.) Those that were not going to college (most) were planning careers at 18.My high school class was 1994, so I am more in the current generation than the last (my mother is 49.)

 

If they aren't expected to grow up, why should they?

 

I hope my dc will be different. I worry about my 16yo - always in ps and spending half (and soon to be all) his time with another set of parents that have a very different philosophy than we do. His life is mostly about parties, electronics, and socializing. He isn't allowed to get a job (by his Dad), the expectations are pretty low overall, and he is a "kid" until 18 when he is an "adult" which translates to no curfew.

 

My 11yo is already planning his career (and his wife!:lol:) He had already earned money from working for others. Unfortunately he is limited by labor laws for a real job - he would get one in a second! So he plans to start his own small engine repair business to get around that. We'll have to see where that takes him.

[VanessaS]

It isn't that the kids are different, it is that 25 is the new 18.

 

I totally agree. It's pure immaturity. Now that people are living longer, they're taking their time with everything and their development is subsequently delayed. You think it's bad over here? In Europe it's TERRIBLE. Over there I've met plenty of 30-somethings who think that they're "much too young to get married or have children" and were shocked that I'd already done both by 24. :001_huh: It's like childhood lasts until your 40 nowadays.

 

So, it makes sense that teenagers act like overgrown, over-sexed preschoolers. It's like life has shifted 20 years...

 

On the other hand, I'm black and from Germany so I'm less inclined to be impressed by the quality of previous generations (both in USA and Europe). At least the current youthful generation isn't spending it's free time suppressing minorities or murdering "undesirables". Some things have DEFINITELY improved.

[Impish]

Are "kids today" really that bad? No, I think society in general is, and along with it go the youth.

 

Think about it. Think about what is allowed on network tv that wouldn't have been tolerated a decade ago. Think about how much more explicit tv, radio, and print ads have become. And the music?! Holy Hannah! North American society has allowed a general overall decay of societal mores, values, and principles to occur, in the name of political correctness. We've become tolerant of more and more, for fear of being labelled 'judgemental' or 'intolerant' or 'censorship'.

 

So, quietly, in our own homes, one by one, we retreat, those of us that have different values, principals, mores. Those that aren't ok with what is happening in today's society. We put up with ridicule from neighbours, family and friends for not allowing our children to see the 'cool' movie, or watch the 'neat' show, or listen to the 'popular' singer. We look for ways out of the city, so that we can escape the constant bombardment from the billboards, bus ads, blaring radios, from women strutting by in the mall in skirts so short and tops so low that I'm if I were braver (or snarkier), I'd compliment her on the outfit she's almost wearing. And I'll admit, right here and now on The Hive...women and young girls who have their thongs hanging out the top of their pants? I really, really, REALLY want to just grab ahold, pull 'em back for all I'm worth....like way behind my head...and let go. See if it launches 'em like Wylie Coyote. There's my Hive confession for the day.

 

Its a heck of a lot for parents to overcome, ESPECIALLY those parents who don't homeschool. I'd say close to impossible. There just isn't enough hours to combat what they are deluged with in school, after school and weekends...when they aren't out with their friends, that is.

 

I credit homeschooling hugely with my ability to keep Diva as close to me as she is. I can't imagine what it would be like if she were still in school. *shudder*

[Carrie12345]

Parenting is only a small part of it, and usually only when the parenting is BAD. There are way too many eclectic mixes of siblings in my family tree for me to believe that parenting determines a child's attitude.

[Plucky]

If I base it on the kids I know then I'd say, I think today's kids are great. I know a lot of wonderful families of all types and the kids are homeschooled, private schooled, and public schooled. I do think having an involved family helps. It doesn't mean kids won't get into trouble, if anything kids *will* make mistakes. Some make bigger ones than others. I think the way a family handles their kids' scrapes makes a difference, too. There's a lot to be said for unconditional love.

[Mommyfaithe]

:iagree:

 

Also, our founding fathers had a generational perspective and leaders thereafter, for the most part. .

 

 

I think the problem for me was lack of leadership from my parents and adults when I was a young girl. I have such a hard time knowing what to expect from my teens and 20 somethings because no one had ANY expectations on me...none...and most of the adults I know have the same issue. I feel we had no role models and even though I take my parenthood extremely seriously, and I would consider myself a good parent, and my teens good teens, there is a void somewhere....

 

Then, I look at our founding fathers (and mothers) and my heroes Abigail and John Adams...and I see they raised 4(of their own) children to adulthood..One drank himself to death...one became a farmer...one married a ne'er do-well who couldn't hold a job and made their lives pretty horrible and one became PRESIDENT OF THE US!!!...sigh...I just can't figure it out.

 

I really hope my children end up less frustrated as adults. I pray they find vocations that fulfill them. We have limited TV...we have limited cell phone use, computer use...engaged them in sports, hobbies, work etc. We have let them travel, we have let them have freedom to figure out who they are and we have given them parameters and boundaries NOT to cross over...yet alas, as I look at my adult children, they seem to be doing VERY well according to the worlds standards...BUT the world seems to be dragging all the good we put in out of them...sigh...

 

Just in a melancholy mood and this post struck a chord...

Are kids really that bad??Yes!!!!

 

But can we raise ours differently so that they can rise above the sub-standard the world expects from them?? I sure hope so....

 

Faithe

[MIch elle]

Are "kids today" really that bad? No, I think society in general is, and along with it go the youth.

 

Think about it. Think about what is allowed on network tv that wouldn't have been tolerated a decade ago. Think about how much more explicit tv, radio, and print ads have become. And the music?! Holy Hannah! North American society has allowed a general overall decay of societal mores, values, and principles to occur, in the name of political correctness. We've become tolerant of more and more, for fear of being labelled 'judgemental' or 'intolerant' or 'censorship'.

 

So, quietly, in our own homes, one by one, we retreat, those of us that have different values, principals, mores.

 

Its a heck of a lot for parents to overcome, ESPECIALLY those parents who don't homeschool. I'd say close to impossible. There just isn't enough hours to combat what they are deluged with in school, after school and weekends...when they aren't out with their friends, that is.

 

 

We keep to ourselves & don't have many friends (both dh & I as well as our dc) so it's not a problem. We have a few homeschool friends, at church and some in the neighborhood and they aren't like that at ALL. I don't think we've retreated but are busy being a quiet, content family.

 

My 15yo went to a Christian high school this year and he had a good experience. He didn't bring home any bad behaviors.

[wildflower]

A few weeks ago we had an issue where we found out that a child in a (now former) play-group had been the victim of sexual abuse & I caught him abusing another child- the one who supposedly abused him.

It freaked me out. Completely terrifying.

I had a sit down with our Pastor to think things through- how to approach the mom, etc.

We got to talking about 'kids today' and kids when I was growing up- there were winners then too, there's no denying that.

He had a very interesting perspective that I had never thought of before, something his wife (a teacher) had brought up one day.

My generation are the children of the drug generation. The kids today are the GRANDCHILDREN of the drug generation. Nothing is sacred and so many things are acceptable by means of 'neglect' that anything goes now.

Yes, there have always been bad parents and bad kids who felt their parents 'didn't understand them' or had a sense of entitlement (didn't John Adams have one or two of those?), but really the numbers in those columns are growing like mad.

Just my 2 cents.

Robyn

[wildflower]

Are "kids today" really that bad? No, I think society in general is, and along with it go the youth.

 

Think about it. Think about what is allowed on network tv that wouldn't have been tolerated a decade ago. Think about how much more explicit tv, radio, and print ads have become. And the music?! Holy Hannah! North American society has allowed a general overall decay of societal mores, values, and principles to occur, in the name of political correctness. We've become tolerant of more and more, for fear of being labelled 'judgemental' or 'intolerant' or 'censorship'.

 

So, quietly, in our own homes, one by one, we retreat, those of us that have different values, principals, mores. Those that aren't ok with what is happening in today's society. We put up with ridicule from neighbours, family and friends for not allowing our children to see the 'cool' movie, or watch the 'neat' show, or listen to the 'popular' singer. We look for ways out of the city, so that we can escape the constant bombardment from the billboards, bus ads, blaring radios, from women strutting by in the mall in skirts so short and tops so low that I'm if I were braver (or snarkier), I'd compliment her on the outfit she's almost wearing. And I'll admit, right here and now on The Hive...women and young girls who have their thongs hanging out the top of their pants? I really, really, REALLY want to just grab ahold, pull 'em back for all I'm worth....like way behind my head...and let go. See if it launches 'em like Wylie Coyote. There's my Hive confession for the day.

 

Its a heck of a lot for parents to overcome, ESPECIALLY those parents who don't homeschool. I'd say close to impossible. There just isn't enough hours to combat what they are deluged with in school, after school and weekends...when they aren't out with their friends, that is.

 

I credit homeschooling hugely with my ability to keep Diva as close to me as she is. I can't imagine what it would be like if she were still in school. *shudder*

 

I was always a kid who looked tough (I am not) big mall hair and black clothes in the 80's, listened to heavy metal (and classical and jazz and everything else also, but I was always judged by the stereotype not the substance). Still have some pretty cool clothes for a mom, they just cost DH much more than the rock T-shirts of back-in-the-day!

I am appalled at what is on TV now! I never knew I was such a prude! I now pretty much watch only TV land (well have since my teen years- gotta love dobey gillis!) but now it's out of necessity, that is when Charlie Rose is not on.....

[MIch elle]

Then, I look at our founding fathers (and mothers) and my heroes Abigail and John Adams...and I see they raised 4(of their own) children to adulthood..One drank himself to death...one became a farmer...one married a ne'er do-well who couldn't hold a job and made their lives pretty horrible and one became PRESIDENT OF THE US!!!...sigh...I just can't figure it out.

 

I

 

Eli raised 2 bad sons but then raised Samuel to take over the leadership.

[Peggy in Va]

...He had a very interesting perspective that I had never thought of before, something his wife (a teacher) had brought up one day.

My generation are the children of the drug generation. The kids today are the GRANDCHILDREN of the drug generation. Nothing is sacred and so many things are acceptable by means of 'neglect' that anything goes now.

Yes, there have always been bad parents and bad kids who felt their parents 'didn't understand them' or had a sense of entitlement (didn't John Adams have one or two of those?), but really the numbers in those columns are growing like mad.

Just my 2 cents.

Robyn

 

Humor me please, but I don't quite understand what you're getting at with this statement. I mean this seriously, not as a criticism.

[wildflower]

sorry this is what happens when i spend more attention to the sleeping toddler in my arms than what i am typing-

 

supervision and acceptable behavior became slack with the baby-boomers, parents doing drugs with their kids in the 80's, there was no differentiation from the kids and parents, kids could run wild..... these kids are now having children of their own with no clue how to parent their children because they have never had a role-model in their childhood, kids had friends not parents.

make sense?

[KidsHappen]

I must lead a seriously sheltered life because I haven't seen these kids. Granted my kids have been homeschooled and most of the kids we have associated with are fellow homeschoolers, but I live in a neighborhood full of kids. Almost every house has kids and as far as I know all of them are PSers. They are all great kids, respectful and well mannered. The teens play with the youngsters and interact with adults. Most of the teens also have jobs. They all participate in sports and church or youth groups. They all do well in school and are rarely seen with an electronic item in their hand.

 

Almost all of them own cell phones, DSes, computers and most homes have some sort of game system and yet all of the children are playing just like we did when we were kids: riding bikes, playing games, swimming and so on. The only time these kids use cell phones is when they are calling family members. I have one child whose phone hasn't even been charged in two months. I have never seen some of these kids with a cell phone even though I know they own one. Everyone has cable and yet no one watches TV. We all have internet and yet the kids don't surf. Gaming systems are group activities in which even parents participate but still a pretty rare occurance. The DSes are played together in a group with the kids helping each other out.

 

They are welcome in all houses around here, even ones without children. We have an elderly couple that live next door and all of the kids sit on their front porch and talk to them. They will gladly do chores and favors for neighbors. The kids all walk the dog together (not nearly as much as I would like though) and walk to the store together to run errands for the adults. For the most part, they seem pretty much like my kids. The kids in my old neighborhood were the same way and the parents still transport the kids to visit each other.

 

My one PSer interacts with lots of children at school and it seems like all of the kids I have seen at the school are pretty much the same as the kids in the neighborhood. The same with the kids on the sports teams. I do live in a family community but certainly not utopia. It seems like the kids here should be about the same as most kids everywhere and yet I don't see these things. So where are all these kids everyone is talking about?

[Peela]

The articles in the newspaper here in Australia suggest that the crime rate in schools is much, much higher than in "my day". There is no respect for teachers in the classroom and there is a lot of crime against teachers. I read article after article about this. But teachers have their hands tied, and students are given so many "rights". And I guess that proper parenting just isn't happening. What I notice is that parents are scared of their kids, want to be liked by them to the extent they won't do the hard stuff. My daughter keeps telling me that all her Scout friends- age 14 through to 17- drink alcohol at parties hosted by parents. What sort of parenting is that?

 

However, my homeschooled and strongly parented son still managed to let off a cap gun during a public event he was attending as a Scout recently, and was stepped down as a Scout leader for a while for his behaviour. Kids are still kids and I dont believe they are innately any different from any other generation- but how we respond as a community in general is quite different.

 

I was talking to my mother about it. One of the differences from her generation is that any parent in her day would scold or even swat any child in their presence- so all kids would be watched and disciplined by all parents in the neighbourhood, and the values were fairly universal. Nowadays, if you tell off another child, let alone swat them, you might be sued! Parents dont have common values any more- what to one parent is abuse, to another is discipline. A male teacher cannot even comfort a child who is injured in the playground - it is illegal to touch them! It has become ridiculous.

 

On the other hand, I dont want other parents telling off my kids particularly because another thing I notice is that parents are so, so biased towards their own children nowadays. They dont see the mischief and dishonesty of their own kids, who plead innocent. Many times my kids have been reprimanded by other parents when the parent just refused to see the guilt of their own children (we have a whole street full of families here and kids go from house to house). They protect their own child and blame the other. This is just lacking integrity and I feel a terrible thing to do- it is my job as an adult and parent to see my own child, as well as other children, equally, and not to favouritise. I am amazed how often parents blatantly favouritise their own children and refuse to see their guilt. I think that is part of the whole bad and neglectful parenting issue of our generation.

[Peggy in Va]

sorry this is what happens when i spend more attention to the sleeping toddler in my arms than what i am typing-

 

supervision and acceptable behavior became slack with the baby-boomers, parents doing drugs with their kids in the 80's, there was no differentiation from the kids and parents, kids could run wild..... these kids are now having children of their own with no clue how to parent their children because they have never had a role-model in their childhood, kids had friends not parents.

make sense?

 

Sleeping toddlers are definitely more important.:) This makes more sense, now I understand.

 

The main reason I was asking is because I am a child of the baby boomer/drug generation and I suppose one could even go so far as to say that my youngest children are "grandchildren" of the drug generation.

 

That said, to a degree, I think you have a point. However, I'm not sure how much "drugs" played into society changing. Don't get me wrong, they were a huge part of the teenage, young adult society in the 60's & 70's. One could even go so far as to say that on college campus there were plenty of professors joining in. The use of drugs in the earlier days was, I think, more because of the "enlightenment" one could attain from using them, as opposed to "bad kids" acting out. Certainly you had those, but it wasn't the norm.

 

On the other hand, what I do think played a huge part in society changing during and after the boomer generation was (gasp) more and more women going into the workforce instead of being home with the kids. Because of this "lack of parenting", parents/moms (my own mother included) tended to indulge us a tad bit more. The other thing to remember, I think this is really important, is that most of the parents of baby boomers, were children that had lived through not only the Great Depression but also a World War. So these issues also played into how we (baby boomers) were raised.

 

Fast forward to my generation, and you have even more women going into the workforce and struggling with the ideas of what they think society expects from them in regards to their "professional" life and being a mother. Personally, my kids and being a mother always came before a career. But, I suppose that came from being raised by a single mom who had to work, 'cause Lord knows it wasn't the norm back then.

 

I also think that because of the lack of time some parents spend at home, you have a generation of facilitators raising children instead of parents/leaders/role models. Think about it, what other generations drove themselves crazy making sure their dcc were driven all over the countryside to this or that event, or making sure the kids had their own cell phones because heaven forbid, they might have to ask to borrow the phone at a friends house or wait for mom or dad to finish using the house phone. Granted, things aren't like they were even a few years ago in that regard. Trying to find a pay phone is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. And I'm not saying cell phones are bad, they have a purpose. I just don't think that they're a necessity.

 

Summing this up, because not only is it getting very long, but my dss will be home from scouts any minute at which point I will no longer be able to think. I agree with your theory, I just tend to think there's a little more to it than the drug culture of the 60's/70's.

 

I'm going to go and wait for my dss to come home now.:)

[Lisa R.]

the difference between this generation of boys and previous generations. The author, a medical doctor and psychiatrist, explains how many of the boys in this generation are lost and unmotivated. It's a *great* book--one that every parent of boys should read. (Even if you don't have boys, it's helpful in understanding them.)

 

I highly recommend reading this.

[mitraces]

Well, responding to the college degrees - we still have that mentality to get a degree. But many without degrees do really well. Whatever it takes, teach kids to work hard. I recall a story where a dad made his kid water the pigs by carrying several pails of water from the house to the barn each day. Later a neighbor asked the dad why, when there was water in the barn. The dad said, his boy needed to learn to work.

 

I see 30 somethings that never learned to work hard. They either needed boot camp or college to learn the discipline of hard work.

 

We have a 21 year old - 6 months from a CS degree, an 18 year old, 3 years from a business degree and a 16 year old with 15 college credits. Whatever it takes, the discipline is good and keeps them focused. No video games, few movies, just trying facebook, shared cell phones.

[Mommyof4ks]

Maybe it is the group of kids that we are around, but I think kids today are for the most part wonderful little people! My childrens' friends are for the most part well mannered and kind. Of course there are some bad eggs, but those are few. Perhaps we need to get out more? ;)

 

There is a group of teens from our church that run our backyard Bible clubs, and they are incredible kids who love on our younger kids. My youngest son was in the hospital a couple of months ago, and while we were there a group of teens came to visit that travel around to hospitals dressed up as super heros to cheer the kids up and bring them little toys and books (this was on their spring break too rather than running to Cancun or something like we hear on the news). Many kids in our area raise money to donate to various charities, and they volunteer at various places around our community.

[Heather in Neverland]

I was just discussing this with my BFF yesterday. We both taught high school for many years and yes, kids are worse now...at least the kids I taught. The things they do and say and wear and the way they act towards authority figures....it boggles my mind.

 

They are the generation of "entitlement"...they should not have to work for anything, it should just be handed to them. They don't owe anyone any respect especially not their elders. They don't know the meaning of hard work. And a moral compass? Forget about it. They are the "truth is relative" generation and as far as they are concerned...anything goes.

[Laurie4b]

I don't think you can just blame the parents. I am the mother of teens, I am an aunt to several 20 somethings, and I know many teens through homeschooling and church and theater, and you just can't blame the parent for all the bad behavior you see. We are all guilty of one transgression or another.

 

Some teens are motivated and want to work on their personal goals and interests, others are far more interested in and influenced by their peers. There is a pack mentality to many teens, and if they as a group decide it is uncool to act responsibly, then they, as a pack, will be trouble.

 

I pity the teens from the local high schools who are in conformist pressure cookers of AP classes and community service credit hours and multiple applications to top ranked colleges. They have no chance to ever think for themselves, and I think it shows in their pack-mentality and behavior. I also see the pack mentality in some homeschool teens as well, but usually they have individual interests and are supportive of each other's interests.

 

It isn't over even after college, either. A friend who teaches college, and whose homeschooled dd got her BA last year, was just lamenting to me about these aimless college graduates. Their entire lives have been about getting into a good college, then getting that expensive degree in 4 years, and now that they are out they haven't a clue about what to do next. They've all moved home and can't even find measly hourly jobs. She said to me "what are we as a culture doing to these kids that they can't seem to take control over their own lives?"

 

My dear sister-in-law, who by many measurements was an excellent parent, is facing situations with her 20somethings that would make your toes curl! You think you're done when they are 18, but there is so much more to come!

 

So please don't blame parents, electronics or just "kids today" but look to instilling responsibility in your own kids and to encouraging them to pursue their unique interests. And don't be quick to judge, because you never know what you will have to face as a parent a few years down the road!

 

:iagree:

[Elaine]

I think kids are the same - do what is expected & as little as possible (on average). I think it is the parents who are FAILING horribly & sadly. I think an entire generation of parents is trying to make life easy & fun for kids & not prepare them for the "real world" - jobs, responsiblity, discipline, self-respect, dependability... you name it. They are overfocused on emotions & feelings... not on teaching & preparing children/teens for life (adulthood).

 

I agree. I am appalled by the behavior of about half of the children that I know, including the ones that I go to church with.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Elaine

[Amy in KS]

As a former middle school teacher, I know that times have changed and social pressures are much more than they were even a generation ago (think middle school peer pressure from your youth but it continues on all day and all night via e-mail, facebook, instant messaging). Still the level of sexual and drug activity today is far more "acceptable" without unattractive nicknames than they were in my days (70's and 80's).

 

Yet, I can't help but wonder if it is related to the values training that my generation had in school. You know, the stuff they called "ethics", etc...

If grandma needed a drug was grandpa right to steal it from a neighbor? Nobody could criticize answers as long as they were EXPLAINED. That made everyone believe that as long as there was a REASON for something, any action could be justifiable... I think my generation has trouble with parenting because many don't follow a solid moral code (i.e. stealing is always wrong, killing is always wrong). Everything is RELATIVE, a judgement code.

 

I also worry that generation x and generation y should also be called generation ENTITLEMENT. The children of the 70's and 80's lived in a time of economic prosperity and burgeoning technology. If they make it, we must have it... And I wonder if that has led to the current financial crisis we have today (people buying more than they can afford, living in tremendous levels of debt). If my generation believes that everything should be handed to them on a silver platter, how can we expect their children to be responsible, hardworking individuals.

[*********]

Too much time & too much money... made me remember a statement that my grandfather used to use.... idle hands are the devil's playground! That just pooped in my noodle as I read your post.

 

It is easier as a parent to pop in a video for the little ones or in the van.... or give the older one a video game to keep them occupied than it is to communicate, plan, and get things done together. It gets them out of the parents hair!

 

Ok, I'm so sorry this is off topic, but...

 

I read this, and dang, it took me more than a second to figure out what you meant. :001_huh::D:lol:

[Dirtroad]

Ok, I'm so sorry this is off topic, but...

 

I read this, and dang, it took me more than a second to figure out what you meant. :001_huh::D:lol:

 

BAD TYPO!!! haha... supposed to have been POPPED into my Noodle. Oh, i was so embarrassed to see that later & realize I had typed incorrectly. Oops! I edited it!:eek:

[Pink Fairy]

I enjoyed that reply, too! I thought it might just be a regional phrase that I'm not familiar with. :D Personally, I think you should have left it "pooped." It's such a great visual! :lol:

[Paintedlady]

I don't think all kids in any geration are bad, but as a society I believe we've extended childhood too far out (tooooooooooooo far out!) and expect very little from our children, whether they're 7 or 17.

 

I think we don't have to struggle enough with real problems, big problems, like where are we going to get our next meal kind of problems. We suffer from being over-pampered and under-worked. That's bound to lead to a generation(s) of kids who are prone to selfishness and laziness if we continue to allow it.

[katemary63]

I haven't read this whole thread but here's our experience. My DD(now 17) decided for herself that she wanted to try PS after being homeschooled 6-8th grade. We live in a very small southern town and I thought it would be fine. At Christmas her Soph. year, she looked me in the eye and said, "I'm NOT going back!"

 

What???? I knew she didn't like some of what was going on, but I didn't know it was that bad. She went on to explain that "the kids there are DISGUSTING!" She could not get away from the swearing, talk about sex (and sex acts in the bathrooms!), crudeness, teasing and overall bad behavior. She could not hear the teacher in class because MOST of the kids were turned around in their seats talking to each other. The teachers made no attemp to gather the class's attention before begining a lecture. Her words to me were, "It is not a good environment for me, Mom." So, we homeschooled the rest of HS.

 

It really stinks because she WANTS to have the social interaction. But with who??? There isn't anybody. Even a lot of the kids that "go to church" just fall right into this horrible behavior when in school. She litterally has only 2 freinds. They are nice girls who don't act like tramps or join in the swearing and crudeness. There is nobody else in this small town. She is hoping in college she can at least join a church group and meet a group of kids she fits in with.

 

I'm all for trying to be an example in a fallen world....but having to live and learn surounded by so much unpleasant behavior was more then she could take and I don't blame her. I am proud of her for standing up for who she is and what she believes and not letting herself be changed just to fit in. (She graduated this year!) But I am sad for the state of things and that most kids these days have no "moral compass" AT ALL!

Edited June 9, 2009 by katemary63

[WTMindy]

I haven't read all the posts, but I believe that kids are just a representation of the culture. The kids aren't any worse than they have ever been, but we live in a culture of indulgence. So, our kids are indulged. Our kids just represent (as a whole, not necessarily every individual) our collective values as a society.

[CLHCO]

 

Then, I look at our founding fathers (and mothers) and my heroes Abigail and John Adams...and I see they raised 4(of their own) children to adulthood..One drank himself to death...one became a farmer...one married a ne'er do-well who couldn't hold a job and made their lives pretty horrible and one became PRESIDENT OF THE US!!!...sigh...I just can't figure it out.

 

 

 

I am willing to land much of the problems of those children at the feet of John Adams. I admire him, but not as a parent. John Quincy is probably the only one he parented. The rest he was off being the statesman, ambassador, etc., and at one point the younger ones were tutored by another while both parents were away. Acting out was the one way they could get their father to notice them.

 

John Quincy did the same thing with his children and they didn't end up much better, if memory serves.

 

I can think of great preachers of past generation who had one prodigal child after the next. When you do a little digging you find most went to boarding school or spent much of their youth away from parents for one reason or another. While a famous papa or mama was giving attention to the world, the child was sent away.

 

I think we have generations of that mentality now. Let the "experts" train our children (or the media, or the video games) so we can continue with our lives. Sometimes parenting can get ugly when challenges arise, and who has time for that anymore?

[Peggy in Va]

As a former middle school teacher, I know that times have changed and social pressures are much more than they were even a generation ago (think middle school peer pressure from your youth but it continues on all day and all night via e-mail, facebook, instant messaging). Still the level of sexual and drug activity today is far more "acceptable" without unattractive nicknames than they were in my days (70's and 80's).

 

Yet, I can't help but wonder if it is related to the values training that my generation had in school. You know, the stuff they called "ethics", etc...

If grandma needed a drug was grandpa right to steal it from a neighbor? Nobody could criticize answers as long as they were EXPLAINED. That made everyone believe that as long as there was a REASON for something, any action could be justifiable... I think my generation has trouble with parenting because many don't follow a solid moral code (i.e. stealing is always wrong, killing is always wrong). Everything is RELATIVE, a judgement code.

 

I also worry that generation x and generation y should also be called generation ENTITLEMENT. The children of the 70's and 80's lived in a time of economic prosperity and burgeoning technology. If they make it, we must have it... And I wonder if that has led to the current financial crisis we have today (people buying more than they can afford, living in tremendous levels of debt). If my generation believes that everything should be handed to them on a silver platter, how can we expect their children to be responsible, hardworking individuals.

 

:iagree: I also think you're 100% correct when you say

Nobody could criticize answers as long as they were EXPLAINED. That made everyone believe that as long as there was a REASON for something, any action could be justifiable...

.

 

I think there is a huge problem with several generations misunderstanding this concept. As I tell my dss, "Well, thanks for explaining xyz, but that in no way, shape, or form excuses it." To me, it is a very immature thought process. It's bad enough when kids try to pull it off, but when I hear adults try to explain away their behavior, it blows my mind.

[Dirtroad]

Several have mentioned teachers and experiences with schools & I thought of my aunt. She went back to college as an adult & got an education degree. She was tough & passionate .... loved teaching. She was going for 30 years, but quit last year b/c the kids had gotten so bad and she was disgusted. She retired with about 25 years under her belt. What a loss!

 

The parents (for the bulk of her students) were uninvolved & uninterested. School was more like a day care system to soooooo many. The discipline (from the parents) was almost non-existant - no accountability for bad behavior at school. Of course the school does little due to failures and fears of administration.

 

She even had 1 child (3rd grade level) who did not know his name. He has always had a nickname & knew nothing else. Sadly, the nick name involved a body function & is considered profane by many.

 

Kids were awful. Parents didn't care or were uninvolved. It was sad. (this is small town school that my parents swear is wonderful).

 

So, I still lay the blame at the feet of parents. Kids will do rotten stuff. They will make mistakes (I made some big ones). However, they have no chance if the parents are uninvolved, absent, or uninterested. They must be taught right/wrong.... manners..... compassion & giving.... empathy.... how to work... etc. Then, as they mature, they will have to make life decisions & some will be incorrect (even devastating). HOwver, atleast they were given the tools. These kids (that i have mentioned in my various post) are not getting these tools.

[Dirtroad]

Something else that I have noticed being different... when I was a kid and a parent caught me out doing something wrong or stupid.... my parents often knew it before I got back home. My Mom had spies.. .or so we thought.

 

By knowing that other adults were watching & sending in "reports", we were held accountable in public or out of the eye of our parents. This is not the case today. Everyone is uninvolved or doesn't want to judge/offend, etc.

 

I have been told by Moms of other kids encouraging thier child to lie or skip lessons, etc. Basic kid stuff. The Mom disciplined her child & when I ask if she told the other mom.... No! How can the other Mom tackle an issue if she has little information??

 

Sadly though, these parents aren't sharing b/c the other family gets offended or angry. How could you accuse their perfectly wonderful child of something bad.

 

My Mom believed my teachers or other adults over me (with reason & thought & knowing her child)!

 

Not today. Perhaps this is another breakdown of parental involvement that is having harmful results in children of today.

[sagira]

I have a lot to think about. My children are still very early in the "formative years" and I look to avoid any major pitfalls. My ds can be strange when it comes to doing something wrong, which worries me. E.g. right after he's done something wrong (not listening) that I either scold or talk to him about he'll ask me for a cookie or tells me what he wants for his birthday :confused:

 

I don't get that. When I was younger (yes, I'm 32 and getting old :tongue_smilie:) I remember feeling bad for what happened and trying to stay out of my parents' way or trying to make amends, not totally unconcerned or oblivious as he seems to be :glare:

 

I feel sorry to say that punishment is not the answer either. I tried that (hang my head in shame) and it seems to lead to more problems. His behavior has gotten worse since we started punishing and now his motivations are starting to change to "what's in it for me or what unpleasant consequence do I avoid?". But I digress. I'm working on building and repairing our relationship, strengthening our bond, and reading to him and presenting him with good stories that show virtue. I also told him I only have three rules in the house now: Respect, Kindness and Truth. We discuss things more instead of me laying down the law. I ask for his input. This has been really beneficial, as ds is a great problem-solver. I focus on solving the problem instead of punishing the behavior. I do point out what he did was wrong, but we talk about it respectfully. I feel a difference too as soon as we adopted Respect, Kindness and Truth in the house. We're still working on it, though. Now it's off to bring dh in, as he's unaware and losing patience with ds :tongue_smilie:

 

Lest people think my ds is a horror, no way. He's seen by many as funny, sweet, interesting, smart, kind and patient. He's a good big brother too. Protective, loving and encouraging. However.. if another adult would correct him when he's say, jumping on their couch, he'll be happy to say why, he likes it and he'll laying down parameters of how long he'll be able to jump (all in a cheerful voice of course) :glare: This, of course, catches parents off-guard. I have to watch him carefully. Not only after I intervene physically and talk to him quietly in private or raise my voice is he moving in the right direction :001_huh: It does get tiring.

 

Sorry to ramble, but in short: parenting is hard. What scares me are parents who are much more mature than I am and have the right attitude and loving natures, and their kids still do defiant and "bad things". So much is at stake here. Sigh. My only comfort is that I still have a lot of time on my side. Even that is slipping, as ds is going to be six already.

 

I just requested Boys Adrift from the library (thanks to whoever suggested that). My BIL is just like this. He's 27, lives with his parents, works for his parents, never had a girlfriend, no ambition in life, just wants to watch movies or shows. Drives his older brother (dh) nuts. That said, he's very good with children and took care of his younger sister and brother (10 years younger) for a long time. I'm trying to find him a girlfriend who doesn't smoke, drink or do drugs or party all night every night. Not that easy where I live.

Edited June 9, 2009 by sagira

[melissel]

Sagira, I worry about my DD3.5 too. She is...I just don't know. We joke that she's either going to be a criminal mastermind or an unbeatable lawyer. She's strong-willed and very, very independent. Once she gets it into her head that she's going to do something, there's no persuading or reasoning it out of her. She's an accomplished liar--she can give you an entirely fabricated backstory without even batting an eye, and will fabricate reasons for why she did something that make you think YOU'RE the wacky one! And yet, she's so smart, and very kind to everyone unless they happen to get in her way. She's helpful, and funny, and too cute for words. Everyone who knows her listens to shocking stories about her in amazement, with their mouths open, and then she'll whiz by and say something hilarious, and the response is always the same: But she's so darn cute!!! She gets tons of attention when we go places. Her big sister, I don't worry too much about. Her moral compass is solid--she was born that way. DH and I know we're in a lot of trouble with the little one, though. She has changed my parenting methods in more ways than I can count. You're not alone!

 

Thanks for the discussion, everyone. I appreciate the input. It's given me a lot to think about. When my mom fired two of the boys she had working for her (brothers, about 16), their mom called to find out why. My mom drove over there and asked the two boys to come out of the house. She explained to the mom what had gone on, and said that she'd take them both back if they actually wanted to work. One didn't, but the other said he did. My mom told him to be there after school at a certain time, and he started hemming and hawing about "having a game." My mom said his mom flipped out on him, so he's back working for my mom again, but only taking baby steps.

 

This is the kid who, when told to go get the vacuum from the church to clean the rectory, said, "But...it's raining!" Then, when told to go put it back afterward, said the same thing. My mom instructed him to go put it back again, and he said, "No, I'll just leave it here." :confused: Needless to say, he took the vacuum back! She said the only kid who works for her with any kind of work ethic is a 13-year-old whose dad is a plumber, but that's because he's been going on job with his dad for years, and his dad makes him work.

 

Then again, she does also say that the adults who work there are similarly helpless, so I guess it's not restricted to kids! She says her standard now is, "I have 6-year-old and 3-year-old grandchildren who would do this job willingly and completely, so why can't you???"