Interesting article about vaccines & autism

[Hannah]

This article was published in Eskeptic, the newsletter of the Skeptics Society.

 

We did delayed vaccination with my younger daughter (and she still needs the last vaccines).

 

I found this article very interesting.

[Mommy22alyns]

I don't have time to read it all right now, but I'm bookmarking it to come back to - looks like an interesting site all around!

[Laura Corin]

This article was published in Eskeptic, the newsletter of the Skeptics Society.

 

 

 

Very interesting. Hobbes had separate MMR vaccines at the height of the scare but both children are now up to date on their vaccines - although there are some extra tropical disease vaccinations that we can now let lapse.

 

Laura

[hsmamainva]

Very interesting article!!

 

I have two children with autism. When my oldest son was diagnosed, we were convinced that it was the vaccines that caused it because that was the 'word on the street' in 2000!

 

So we didn't vaccinate our youngest daughter -- and she still has autism! And she's more severely affected by autism than our oldest son. And, we didn't take her for testing until she was 3 years old because we were so convinced that, "She can't have autism! We didn't vaccinate her!"

 

I'm not sure what the cause is...I really don't. I'm now leaning toward some environmental component as to the cause for the skyrocketing autism rate. Not necessarily vaccines, but...something. I mean, look at all the preservatives in our food and hormones in our meat and chemicals added to our clothing, etc.

 

Who knows? If I could figure it out, I'd be a rich woman! ;)

[Ravin]

I only read the introduction, but the first thing I see is that the author takes the positive benefits and universality of "herd immunity" and the necessity of vaccinations to public health as a foregone conclusion, with no acknowledgement of the reality that vaccination itself is a great medical experiment--and that the long term risk-benefit analysis is somewhat mixed. In the short term, there have been clearly apparent benefits. But the only disease that has been successfully wiped out worldwide is smallpox. The elimination of endemic disease in well-nourished populations with modern sanitation may not be entirely attributable to vaccines--good nutrition and sanitation are part of it as well. A well-nourished child is substantially less likely, for example, to die of measles. And the elimination of those childhood diseases has been accompanied by a rise in childhood autoimmune disease.

 

To take the truly long view, our herd immunity has become more artificial. Greater understanding of the role of evolution in the war between humanity and our pathogenic diseases makes for a case for its limitations.

 

Autism rates have increased greatly over the past couple of generations. Environmental causes are the most likely reason, probably systemic ones that affect the popluation as a whole, since genes don't change that fast. As long as those factors remain unidentified, people are going to grasp at straws.

 

Any skeptic worth his salt should not take science as a given end-all answer to anything any more than any other worldview.

[Ibbygirl]

Very interesting article!!

 

I have two children with autism. When my oldest son was diagnosed, we were convinced that it was the vaccines that caused it because that was the 'word on the street' in 2000!

 

So we didn't vaccinate our youngest daughter -- and she still has autism! And she's more severely affected by autism than our oldest son. And, we didn't take her for testing until she was 3 years old because we were so convinced that, "She can't have autism! We didn't vaccinate her!"

 

I'm not sure what the cause is...I really don't. I'm now leaning toward some environmental component as to the cause for the skyrocketing autism rate. Not necessarily vaccines, but...something. I mean, look at all the preservatives in our food and hormones in our meat and chemicals added to our clothing, etc.

 

Who knows? If I could figure it out, I'd be a rich woman! ;)

 

We have a similar story. I have two with Autism too and they were both vaccinated. My brother's first born has Autism and had the MMR so he didn't vaccinate his kids anymore after that. His second born has more severe Autism than the first and has never had a shot in his life. I worry though about the fear of vaccinations bringing back serious diseases that have been irradicated. The vaccine has never been proven to have caused Autism.

 

It is a mystery. I know a lady who has identical twins and one has profound Autism and the other is typical. :confused: My neurologist says that he thinks it is something genetically latent and has an environmental trigger. Who knows? If I did I'd be a rich lady too. ;) :)

[Laura Corin]

I only read the introduction,

 

It touches on the specific effects on disease of rising and lowering vaccination rates in Western populations.

 

Laura

[Tabrett]

Just wondering if the population has always had the same rate of autism, but it has not been diagnosed on a regular basis until now? If you think about really great people in history like Einstein or Mozart, they seem to have the characteristics of some form of autism. I had never heard of Aspergers until a few years ago, but I can think of older people who have the characteristics, but were never diagnosed.

 

Thinking about how a "geek" behaved (according to movies caricatures), the characteristics are very similar to Aspergers. This is not meant to be derogatory, just an observation.

 

What do you think?

[Laura Corin]

I do wonder about this. I heard an older doctor talking about the rise in cases of asthma. He said that it often used to be documented as 'non-specific bronchitis' or 'wheezing' or 'breathing problems' - there wasn't a single label. Once there was a widely-accepted single label, then suddenly the number of cases 'rose'.

 

Laura

[BMW]

It's very interesting (not the article, but exploring the topic). You can find people with very different stories. So, the only thing I can be sure of is that for now, it seems there are many variables. I have found in my studies that there are many, many cases of normal infant and early toddler development and then within a day or two of immunizations, the child regresses and has "autism".

 

I didn't realize until recent studies that there are two main categories of autistic spectrum disorders... autism at birth and regressive autism. Autism that a child is born with is much more rare and has not been part of the sharp rise of autism. Regressive autism is what has skyrocketed, according to Dr. Kenneth Bock, who does a fabulous job of discussing and presenting autism, adhd, asthma and allergies on the rise and how it relates to immunizations and environmental factors. (He is not anti-immunization, he is delayed immunization... take it easy and slower with these babies!)

 

My only child who received an immunization in the first two weeks of life is my child who is considered to have been born with autism. I have no idea if this one shot as a newly born infant did it or not... That was his only immunization for several years. I suspect that this child would be autistic regardless... but that is just a mom's gut instinct, not science.

 

Anyway, I highly recommend this book... Healing the New Childhood Epidemics, by Kennth Bock. It's not about hype or blame or one idea... and the doctor has had a lot of success with his program/diet change/supplement routines with suffering children. Another interesting note... underlying causes of autism and adhd have the same root! There is great information on what is different about the autistic child's brain... as well as the adhd brain. Understandable, readable information that really helped me understand my child.

[HeatherLynn]

I still believe that vaccinations do harm. This article only addresses one link they are trying to debunk. I want to see a study on the correlation of vaccinations to SIDS deaths.

[Leanna Tomlinson]

Just wondering if the population has always had the same rate of autism, but it has not been diagnosed on a regular basis until now? If you think about really great people in history like Einstein or Mozart, they seem to have the characteristics of some form of autism. I had never heard of Aspergers until a few years ago, but I can think of older people who have the characteristics, but were never diagnosed.

 

 

What do you think?

 

:iagree: I can think of three boys in high school that were "different". I know they would be labeled with "Asperger's" today. There are several adults I encounter on a regular basis that have many of the same characteristics.

 

I don't think this completely accounts for the sharp rise in autism today, but the fact that the definition of autism has been refined to encompass more mild behaviours certainly accounts for some of the increase.

[Michelle in AL]

Part of the reason that autism is on the rise is that patients that previously were classified as mentally retarded are now classified on the autism spectrum. This doesn't mean that all autistic children are mentally retarded though.

 

If you'll notice no one is labeled as mentally retarded. That diagnosis is no longer used because those patients won't receive much assistance with that diagnosis. Label them autistic and therapy programs are available.

 

If I think about it I knew far more mentally challenged people growing up than I do now and I've worked in pediatrics my adult life, so I'd be bound to see some.

[Tammyla]

Thanks for the link...

[JenniferB]

If I could figure it out, I'd be a rich woman! ;)

 

Two women working together do claim to have figured this out. I watched a video on You Tube about a year ago featuring pieces of their workshop. The names escape me at the moment, and I don't have time to google it right now, but I'll come back to it later if you're interested and post what I can find.

 

They claim that the root of autism is in an over toxified gut (colon). They say that vaccinations can exacerbate the gut when they are harvested in bad bacteria, and the bad bacteria enters the blood stream through the vaccinations. But, a gut problem can occur with or without vaccinations. The gut needs a huge amount of good bacteria to remain healthy. If the good bacteria (probiotics) is lacking due to hereditary lack of bacteria being passed on from the mother to the child, or lack of good bacteria being introduced through the mother's breast milk (whether it was lacking in the mother's breast milk, or the breast milk itself was lacking), then the child has a lack of good bacteria. They say that when the gut is lacking in this good bacteria then the toxins from bad bacteria multiply, because they don't have enough good bacteria to fight off the bad, and the bad bacteria exits the colon and gets into the brain somehow. The toxified brain then results in autism or other learning &/or behavior problems.

 

Of course, this is a summary, and probably a terribly bad one, since I only watched the video once, then left the subject alone...

 

However, I do believe that there has been some other scientific research in inflammation of the colon common among autism sufferers. There might be something to this theory...

 

Food for thought. Or something to google. :D

[Impish]

Totally NOT an expert on anything, but one thing always completely confounds me, when hearing about folks discuss environmental toxins, etc.

 

Folks, why is it that we'll mention cars, factory emissions, the chemicals in our foods, etc...yet overlook the SINGLE BIGGEST ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE EVER?

 

Seriously, does Chernobyl come to mind at all? I realize that there's nothing proactive that can be done, other than the fact that the iron sarcophagus that its currently encased in is leaking and has been for years and badly needs replacing, and nobody is out doing fundraisers for it, and banging the media drums, cause its just not as attractive a thing for the media to cover, but Chernobyl was a HUGE environmental disaster, and its not, absolutely NOT, unlikely that we're still seeing the effects today! Heck, nobody's even really SURE what those effects could/might be for sure! Hightened cancer rates world wide? Yup, we've got that. Hightened rates of infertility? Seems as though we have that too, at least in North America...or perhaps its simply more public now, I honestly don't know.

 

Chernobyl was a huge disaster, and is still leaking, and is STILL having impact. Don't ignore or dismiss that when considering environmental issues. People are still dying from it today.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/31/eveningnews/main3984592.shtml

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/science/earth/24obnuke.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=chernobyl%202009&st=cse'

[ElizabethB]

There is also this one about TV and autism, it's an interesting theory:

 

http://www.johnson.cornell.edu/faculty/profiles/Waldman/AUTISM-WALDMAN-NICHOLSON-ADILOV.pdf

[JenniferB]

 

 

This is the video series I was talking about. Donna Gates & Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride are the women I was talking about. This is an interesting theory, but I was thinking, as I often do after I post, that if the cause or root of Autism is gut disbiosis, then wouldn't adults "get" Autism? Can adults come down with Autism? I haven't heard of this happening, so if the gut can get toxified in children, wouldn't the gut get toxified in adults, too? More food for thought...

[JenniferB]

I just watched these You Tube videos again: "Autism Diet: Donna Gates & Dr. Campbell-McBride" (6 videos). This is so interesting to me. They explain that some of the effects of gut disbiosis in adults takes the form of OCD, schizophrenia, and other psychological disorders. I was wondering about this, if gut disbiosis is the cause or root of autism, why doesn't it show up in adults. These women explain this briefly in their videos.

[mcconnellboys]

You know, when doctors anywhere have a much better understanding of auto-immune problems, then I might be more willing to believe that there's no connection between autism and vaccines, but that day has not yet come. It is further my understanding that since we've been importing vaccines to under-developed countries such as India, their autism rates have been rising.....

[Wyndie]

 

This is the video series I was talking about. Donna Gates & Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride are the women I was talking about. This is an interesting theory, but I was thinking, as I often do after I post, that if the cause or root of Autism is gut disbiosis, then wouldn't adults "get" Autism? Can adults come down with Autism? I haven't heard of this happening, so if the gut can get toxified in children, wouldn't the gut get toxified in adults, too? More food for thought...

 

I just watched these You Tube videos again: "Autism Diet: Donna Gates & Dr. Campbell-McBride" (6 videos). This is so interesting to me. They explain that some of the effects of gut disbiosis in adults takes the form of OCD, schizophrenia, and other psychological disorders. I was wondering about this, if gut disbiosis is the cause or root of autism, why doesn't it show up in adults. These women explain this briefly in their videos.

 

Jennifer, I work for Donna Gates and I am also in a support group of women who do her diet (Body Ecology) with their children and there are those who's children have been completely recovered with just that diet. It took much more than diet for my children to recovery; but those recoveries support the theory that some cases of autism are purely gut problems.

 

I also have a friend who was diagnosed with "adult onset autism" at the age of 40. Her symptoms didn't start until her 30's and she is adamant that it was all about the gut for her. As she restored the balance of good bacteria in her gut, her symptoms went away and she no longer has autism.

 

I do think the gut is a huge factor in autism but I don't think it's the only one.

[Ginevra]

That's an interesting article. I would like to go back to that site and poke around some more.

 

Here's a little detour: I read Jenny McCarthy's first book about Evan, Louder than Words. I stumbled on it quite by accident; I'm not in the habit of reading books of that type by "authors" of that type. But I checked it out the library and read it.

 

After having read it, I found it strange that she's become the big, public face against vaccines and in favor of all the "alternative" autism treatments. In the book, she spelled out many instances describing his autistic characteristics before he started to have the seizures which led to his diagnosis. She talked about how late he smiled at his mother (her). How he liked to ride the escalator up and down, up and down, over and over endlessly, while the other kids at her play group just played together. She said how offended she was when someone (Grandmother, maybe?) said she was concerned that Evan just didn't seem loving.

 

Anyway, the point is, both she and others noticed that Evan had some particular traits, but it didn't dawn on her until after he was diagnosed that these were all early signs of autism. So, how can she then turn around and say she is sure that the MMR caused his autism? And, not that it's a central point, but doesn't she realize she would be a much better "spokesperson" if she wouldn't have to be bleeped out every ten words?

[JenniferB]

Jennifer, I work for Donna Gates and I am also in a support group of women who do her diet (Body Ecology) with their children and there are those who's children have been completely recovered with just that diet. It took much more than diet for my children to recovery; but those recoveries support the theory that some cases of autism are purely gut problems.

 

I also have a friend who was diagnosed with "adult onset autism" at the age of 40. Her symptoms didn't start until her 30's and she is adamant that it was all about the gut for her. As she restored the balance of good bacteria in her gut, her symptoms went away and she no longer has autism.

 

I do think the gut is a huge factor in autism but I don't think it's the only one.

 

Wyndie,

 

I have not vaccinated my children, not purely because of the autism fear, but just fear in general that it's not healthy. I come from a hands off, nature (God's design) is best background. However, I do appreciate and take advantage of western medicine and I really like my children's pediatrician (MD) for emergency situations. I have been contemplating getting my children caught up on vaccines lately, which is why this thread caught my eye. I'm still 50/50. My children's pediatrician is convinced that vaccinations are safe, though he respects my decision not to vaccinate. What do you think? You must have an extensive background and an educated opinion on the subject working for Donna Gates.

 

I am concerned about my youngest, especially, receiving his vaccinations, because he was given 72 hrs. wide spectrum antibiotics at the early age of 35 days, when he came down with a fever. He is showing some gut problems, with diaper rashes, and general skin rashes. He was also really late in cutting and developing teeth, which I read somewhere was a gut immaturity symptom?? I'm concerned the most about upsetting his system, also he's only just 21 months old.

 

My other 3 children are not as fragile. They have no health problems or food allergies that I have noticed. They also rarely get sick.

 

What do you recommend? :confused:

[Wyndie]

I think mommy instinct is not to be ignored and if you feel trepidacious about your little one and vaccines, I would encourage you to research alot before moving forward with that. I'm with you on the thought that God made our bodies to fight off diseases and that vaccines are not for everyone.

 

His immune system is likely already compromised to some degree given what you're seeing and the fact that he has had antibiotics. Replacing that gut bacteria is very important. There are a few books that give delayed vax recommendations and I would suggest you look into which vaccines you think are necessary. Many childhood vaxes are for diseases that only make children sick but do no permanent damage.

 

I'd like to discuss this further with you via PM's. My opinions are rather strong given my background and I don't want to start a problem here. :D

[Kathy in MD]

Just wondering if the population has always had the same rate of autism, but it has not been diagnosed on a regular basis until now? If you think about really great people in history like Einstein or Mozart, they seem to have the characteristics of some form of autism. I had never heard of Aspergers until a few years ago, but I can think of older people who have the characteristics, but were never diagnosed.

 

Thinking about how a "geek" behaved (according to movies caricatures), the characteristics are very similar to Aspergers. This is not meant to be derogatory, just an observation.

 

What do you think?

 

I agree that much of the increase in diagnosis is due to better awareness and a broadening of the the spectrum diagnosis. Into my 30's, I always thought of autistic patients of sitting in a corner, rocking themselves, with no language abilities, screaching ad ignoring the outside world. This was the image projected through TV programs and news clips on autism.

 

But today, autism isn't limited to the ultra-extreme cases. And certain fields seem to attract a large portion of the undiagnosised Asperger types. I still remember with shock when my anti-social dh informed me he was one of the social individuals at work :001_huh:

 

OTOH, I do think that enviromental issues have contributed to the increase. Often symptoms have been reduced by modifying the diet, supplimenting vitamins or eliminating toxins.

 

I don't believe in one simple answer for anything. :D

[KingM]

I'm pro-vaccination, although I think waiting a little longer on certain vaccines, like the Japanese do, would prevent some of the side effects.

 

Vaccines have occasional bad results, but all you have to do is walk through a 19th Century graveyard and look at the vast numbers of gravestones for children--sometimes entire families wiped out--to recognize that vaccines have saved tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of lives.

[6packofun]

I agree. All we hear is the cry from the medical community (in a condescending manner to boot--those silly conspiratorial families with autistic kids!) is that vaccines don't CAUSE autism. Well thanks, but how about looking into the very real possibility that vaccines may TRIGGER autism? To discount the very similar experiences--evidence--of thousands of families is poor science, IMO! I firmly believe that their dismissal of this evidence is related to, gee, the money that the doctors, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies bring in from this huge *business*. It's shameful.

[Ibbygirl]

I'm pro-vaccination, although I think waiting a little longer on certain vaccines, like the Japanese do, would prevent some of the side effects.

 

Vaccines have occasional bad results, but all you have to do is walk through a 19th Century graveyard and look at the vast numbers of gravestones for children--sometimes entire families wiped out--to recognize that vaccines have saved tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of lives.

 

:iagree: My aunt had polio when she was 4 years old just months before the vaccine was invented. She survived but was left crippled in her arm because of it. There are some very scary diseases that are no longer an issue thanks to vaccines.

[Spy Car]

Vaccines have occasional bad results, but all you have to do is walk through a 19th Century graveyard and look at the vast numbers of gravestones for children--sometimes entire families wiped out--to recognize that vaccines have saved tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of lives.

 

 

:iagree:

 

No kidding. And the anti-vaccine mentality popular in some quarters of the home-schooling community puts lives at risk.

 

Bill

[WishboneDawn]

I agree. All we hear is the cry from the medical community (in a condescending manner to boot--those silly conspiratorial families with autistic kids!) is that vaccines don't CAUSE autism. Well thanks, but how about looking into the very real possibility that vaccines may TRIGGER autism? To discount the very similar experiences--evidence--of thousands of families is poor science, IMO! I firmly believe that their dismissal of this evidence is related to, gee, the money that the doctors, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies bring in from this huge *business*. It's shameful.

 

The problem is that it's NOT evidence. You're talking about anecdotes and though anecdotes can sometimes point the way to questions that need to be asked they are not reliable evidence on which a scientist can build a theory.

Anecdotes present stories that are subject to biases and ommissions that often can't be sorted out afterwards.

 

Think of a case where a disease has swept through a community. People are sharing anecdotes when they first noticed symptoms and they all realize that there was a commonality - that a few days before those symptoms they were always gathered in groups talking to each other. They decide that the disease must be airborne and so gatherings are banned. The disease still runs rampant. An outside observer comes in, sets up a proper study and soon realizes that the gathering IS important but because the gatherings are usually in the village square where villagers draw water from the communal well, which is the actual source of infection. The well was such a passive presence in the life of the community and the "airborne" theory gained such force that it was omitted from consideration.

 

Anecdotes generally rely on correlation as well which can be dangerously misleading, as the above also shows.

 

Scientists have very good reason and even an ethical perogative to not give too much weight too anecdotes.

 

When anecdotal claims are backed up by scientific studies THEN science will pay attention to those claims. But, despite many studies into possible links between vaccines and autism, that hasn't happened yet. The answer to the puzzle is still out there and I think we should be glad that science won't be prejudiced by anecdote in it's search for that answer.

[WishboneDawn]

You know, when doctors anywhere have a much better understanding of auto-immune problems, then I might be more willing to believe that there's no connection between autism and vaccines, but that day has not yet come. It is further my understanding that since we've been importing vaccines to under-developed countries such as India, their autism rates have been rising.....

 

Even if there are actual statistics to demonstrate that then that's simply correlation. In a country like India that is going through so much change right now in terms of social order, environment, politics, finance, etc. it means exactly nothing. There are likely a hundred other things one could easily find to correlate with the rise of autism.

 

Again, correlation is thin ice on which to build causation. Supposedly there's a higher incidence of autism in Silicon Valley. Does that means we can determine that the IT industry causes autism?:)

Edited June 5, 2009 by WishboneDawn

[KingM]

Supposedly there's a higher incidence of autism in Silicon Valley. Does that means we can determine that the IT industry causes autism?:)

 

It might. Having worked in the computer industry, there are a lot of bright programmers with Asperger-like symptoms. The combination of brightness, intellectual isolation, and not caring about outside opinion makes for a lot of really good programmers.

 

If Asperger's is a mild form of autism, collecting a lot of these people in one place and then pairing them up in the natural human way might, in fact, lead to more full-blown autism among their offspring.

 

(And yes, this is slightly tongue in cheek.)

[Ibbygirl]

It might. Having worked in the computer industry, there are a lot of bright programmers with Asperger-like symptoms. The combination of brightness, intellectual isolation, and not caring about outside opinion makes for a lot of really good programmers.

 

If Asperger's is a mild form of autism, collecting a lot of these people in one place and then pairing them up in the natural human way might, in fact, lead to more full-blown autism among their offspring.

 

(And yes, this is slightly tongue in cheek.)

 

That's assuming that Autism is genetic. :D:tongue_smilie:

[ClassicMom]

While I still belive that immunizations had something to do with my son's autism (not necessarily causing it), I do believe that children still need to be vaccinated.

 

I think that the MMR should be given in three separte shots. I think it overwhelms fragile children when given as one shot.

 

I had a friend's daughter die of SIDS after receiving her MMR and DPT. I REALLY don't think those should all be given at once. My son was given all those at once around the age of two and within days, lost all language skills, lost the light in his eyes and he lost motor skills. The change even shows in pictures we have of him. It was an amazing change.

[Ibbygirl]

While I still belive that immunizations had something to do with my son's autism (not necessarily causing it), I do believe that children still need to be vaccinated.

 

I think that the MMR should be given in three separte shots. I think it overwhelms fragile children when given as one shot.

 

I had a friend's daughter die of SIDS after receiving her MMR and DPT. I REALLY don't think those should all be given at once. My son was given all those at once around the age of two and within days, lost all language skills, lost the light in his eyes and he lost motor skills. The change even shows in pictures we have of him. It was an amazing change.

 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I'm so sorry about your son. I agree with you 100% that they should break them up.

[KingM]

That's assuming that Autism is genetic. :D:tongue_smilie:

 

It does seem to have a genetic component. It's quite likely that there is also an environmental component(s), something to trigger the change in wiring that makes a brain autistic.

 

When our kids were younger, I was not convinced that there was a vaccine link to autism and subsequent studies have cast more and more doubt on this theory, but I was also aware that in some countries, the vaccines are given more spread out and at different ages. We delayed vaccination for our children, especially with the MMR vaccine.

 

It's important to remember that measles, mumps, and rubella are far more horrible than rare vaccine side effects, even if they did include the occasional case of autism. One reason that the medical establishment is so insistent on vaccinations is that the best way for vaccines to work is through mass inoculations.

 

If enough people opt out of vaccinations, children will die. And if you choose to opt out of vaccinations, then your children are being protected, in large part, by those children who have undergone vaccination. They are taking all the risk, you are enjoying some of the benefit. This doesn't seem fair.

 

The flip side is that with mass vaccinations, those unfortunate children who suffer the adverse side effect (including the very rare, but still occasional death) suffer individually for the benefit of the group. This also doesn't seem fair.

[Ibbygirl]

It does seem to have a genetic component. It's quite likely that there is also an environmental component(s), something to trigger the change in wiring that makes a brain autistic.

 

When our kids were younger, I was not convinced that there was a vaccine link to autism and subsequent studies have cast more and more doubt on this theory, but I was also aware that in some countries, the vaccines are given more spread out and at different ages. We delayed vaccination for our children, especially with the MMR vaccine.

 

It's important to remember that measles, mumps, and rubella are far more horrible than rare vaccine side effects, even if they did include the occasional case of autism. One reason that the medical establishment is so insistent on vaccinations is that the best way for vaccines to work is through mass inoculations.

 

If enough people opt out of vaccinations, children will die. And if you choose to opt out of vaccinations, then your children are being protected, in large part, by those children who have undergone vaccination. They are taking all the risk, you are enjoying some of the benefit. This doesn't seem fair.

 

The flip side is that with mass vaccinations, those unfortunate children who suffer the adverse side effect (including the very rare, but still occasional death) suffer individually for the benefit of the group. This also doesn't seem fair.

 

 

I hear you King, and I have to tell you that you are preaching to the choir here. I agree with you on this matter. Both of my children have had their vaccines and will continue to have them. If you read my post a little further up I was agreeing with you about your comment on the 19th century graveyards and even sharing that my aunt was left crippled by Polio because the vaccine hadn't yet been invented when she had it. I don't know why you directed your comments to me, but let me assure you that what you quoted of what I said was meant to be tongue in cheek hence the smilies. :) No worries though. I ain't mad at cha! :) :D

[KingM]

I don't know why you directed your comments to me, but let me assure you that what you quoted of what I said was meant to be tongue in cheek hence the smilies. :) No worries though. I ain't mad at cha! :) :D

 

Not disagreeing, I'm just talking to hear the sound of my own voice. :)

 

I found the subject interesting and had some more things to blather on about.

[Ibbygirl]

Not disagreeing, I'm just talking to hear the sound of my own voice. :)

 

I found the subject interesting and had some more things to blather on about.

 

 

I'm sorry that I interrupted you then. ;) :D :tongue_smilie:

[Jill]

We've had our son have all "required" available vaccines. That last set was nuts! He had 5 shots w/ 9 vaccinations. Took 4 nurses to hold him down. I do try to keep in mind that in a way it is just a technology. It may someday be replaced by a better system.

I do wonder why the research that indicates that about half of autistic children are unable to properly process heavy metals because of lower levels of glutathione is never mentioned? I really do. Is it discredited or just underfunded? Does the Jenny McCarthy side go into that research?

 

"http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2006/11/27/Autism-study-tests-glutathione-levels/UPI-67851164638100/

 

"Studies have shown that levels of the major intracellular antioxidant glutathione are typically about 50 percent lower in children with autism. Glutathione, which is produced by every cell in the body, is responsible for a number of functions including removing or neutralizing dangerous substances that people are exposed to on a daily basis, including toxic metals, according to scientists at the University of Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas."

 

also

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16336646

 

I am just throwing this in as I've been curious about it and I think it's really good, considering this, that you can get vaccinations without thimerasol.