Swine flu #2

[Jane in NC]

This article reports how long viruses live on paper money. Rather fascinating stuff for the paranoid or those of us who are interesting in microbiology.

 

Most have heard, I would assume, how the common cold can be transmitted via dollar bills. But some of the information in this article (like the use of fungicides in American paper money) was new to me.

[Melissa in FL]

Out of curiousity...

 

If the government were to close down EVERYTHING for a week, couldn't the spread be severely slowed. I mean, I am thinking, if this were something terrible - like Ebola - isn't there something they could do? Could they not be really drastic for a few minutes and put a huge hault to the whole thing? My hubby sure would like a week off work. ;)

 

Certain areas of our economy cannot be closed. My dh is a banker and according to federal law a bank may not be closed more than three days in a row. That's why if the 4th of July is on a Tuesday, the bank WILL be open on the Monday before the 4th. It's a federal law.

 

I'm sure there are portions of the government that it would be impossible to close for more than three days. Also, I have heard that most cities only have a three day supply of food on the shelves, so we need those truckers out working to transport food, the processing plants working to get the food ready for the trucks, ect. I think it would be impossible to close everything for a week.

 

And, as with the school kids, I'm afraid people wouldn't just stay home if they felt healthy, they would try to take advantage of the "vacation" and go do family things all over the place. That might spread this more. These are just quick scattered thoughts, but I'm sure you understand where I'm going.

Melissa

[Tammyla]

Thank you, Jane.:drool: My smiley is in ref to the article. :blink:

 

 

This article reports how long viruses live on paper money. Rather fascinating stuff for the paranoid or those of us who are interesting in microbiology.

 

Most have heard, I would assume, how the common cold can be transmitted via dollar bills. But some of the information in this article (like the use of fungicides in American paper money) was new to me.

[fshinkevich]

I feel the same way. People here are canceling everything, and the grocery stores seem to be empty of shoppers...but the teens and kids out of school are going to the malls and movies. :001_huh: I did have the kids skip their band practice because it's in a VERY small building that tons of hsers plow through, and I *always* feel that the place runs on the germy side. I was going to allow my ds to go to his piano lesson until the teacher called to cancel.

 

I figure that I'm trying not to panic, so I'm treating this as any other flu outbreak, and that it's one that we're very possible to get. Especially since two kids in our area have "probable" cases and all schools in the county are closed, so it's most likely here. Our area also has a HIGH number of business travelers going to/through Dallas. When deciding whether or not to do something or go somewhere, I'm asking myself "would I do this/did I do this during the normal flu season?", and if the answer is "yes", then we'll do it. Of course, that may change if new info comes out.

 

I will say, however, that it's hard to keep a level head when the media keeps 'reporting' on every little thing. And with the suspected cases here, the local media is having a field day!

 

May we all stay healthy....

 

I have read several articles that state by shutting things down for a few days, it has really helped slow down the spread of the virus.

 

On a side note I have two friends (well, one friend, one father of a friend) that are quarantined in the hospital very ill with swine flu, when all the reports I read say that everyone has mild symptoms and is recovering. So I'm just not buying it at this point. We are are going to hunker down at home unless it becomes essential to go out, better safe than sorry.

Edited May 1, 2009 by fshinkevich
said hate instead of have :/

[Barb_]

This article reports how long viruses live on paper money. Rather fascinating stuff for the paranoid or those of us who are interesting in microbiology.

 

Most have heard, I would assume, how the common cold can be transmitted via dollar bills. But some of the information in this article (like the use of fungicides in American paper money) was new to me.

 

Wow. That explains why I was ALWAYS sick back in high school. I worked as a cashier at Publix and handled money for hours at a time. I knew money was dirty, but never realized how long germs could survive on it. Ick, ick, ick.

[HeatherInWI]

On a side note I have two friends (well, one friend, one father of a friend) that are quarantined in the hospital very ill with swine flu, when all the reports I read say that everyone has mild symptoms and is recovering. So I'm just not buying it at this point. We are are going to hunker down at home unless it becomes essential to go out, better safe than sorry.

 

I've noticed that the reports on the news are much calmed down today, and they don't mesh well with the reports I get from real people on the ground. I'm wondering if there's been some sort of government order to try to quiet things down so that the economy isn't harmed.

[fshinkevich]

I've noticed that the reports on the news are much calmed down today, and they don't mesh well with the reports I get from real people on the ground. I'm wondering if there's been some sort of government order to try to quiet things down so that the economy isn't harmed.

 

I noticed that too. Probably thoughts of economy and trying to prevent a full blown panic. Either way, we'll hang out here, I don't mind home :)

[wulfbourne]

This article reports how long viruses live on paper money. Rather fascinating stuff for the paranoid or those of us who are interesting in microbiology.

 

Most have heard, I would assume, how the common cold can be transmitted via dollar bills. But some of the information in this article (like the use of fungicides in American paper money) was new to me.

Good thing I like my plastic and my gram uses checks :)

[Pammy]

but I do think there is some downplaying going on. that and I live near a major military base and there was a lot of activity last night. usually the big planes stop flying or taking off at dusk, and I head about 5 per hour last night, along with the trains going back and forth all night.

[wulfbourne]

but I do think there is some downplaying going on. that and I live near a major military base and there was a lot of activity last night. usually the big planes stop flying or taking off at dusk, and I head about 5 per hour last night, along with the trains going back and forth all night.

 

If you're really worried you can take some extra Vit. D and some probiotic's.

I watched a web seminar with Dr. Tenpenny while there was more freaking out hype. I believe she said she had just been in Mexico and there were a lot of factors as too why those people may have been dying and we are only seeing it as a very mild flu. She was talking about how in her practice they encourage extra vit. D and probiotics because most people are deficient, especially in the winter/early spring months.

[Pammy]

so what does that mean as far as not letting people freak out:?

[Perry]

so what does that mean as far as not letting people freak out:?

 

I think it means they recognize that there are people that would like to steal it and sell it on the black market. I would *hope* it's being guarded!

[wulfbourne]

so what does that mean as far as not letting people freak out:?

That they don't want people raiding pharmacies or stockpiling out of panic? That they don't want it sold on the black market? That it's a valued commodity atm?

I personally wouldn't/can't take it anyway. I'm breastfeeding and it's contraindicated for breastfeeding women. Also, it has a scary history with of people having psychotic breaks while taking it. Some even killing themselves while taking it. I'm already nuts anyway:)

The majority of people can treat it like any other flu. Rest, fluids, vit D + C. You can prevent it with good hygiene practices and a good diet.

[Barb_]

I'm already nuts anyway:)

 

:lol: You and 98% of the board. The other 2% aren't sure.

[WishboneDawn]

:lol: You and 98% of the board. The other 2% aren't sure.

 

Not true. We're quite sure...That we're bananas.

[fshinkevich]

Well there have been a lot of changes in my area today. I think it is pretty significant that they are willing to close schools for a full two weeks, even longer than the one week already in place for some schools in our area.

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/topstories/ci_12271949

[newbie]

Wow, they havent done that here yet. I was just thinking about the moms who have their kids in ps and work, they must be pulling out hair, if districts close. What can they do, daycare???

[Tree House Academy]

Surely no one is surprised there are more and more cases popping up. Imagine if we knew about all the people who didn't care if it was swine or otherwise and aren't at the dr. being swabbed and "counted." I know my kids, dh, and I would not be.

[fshinkevich]

Surely no one is surprised there are more and more cases popping up. Imagine if we knew about all the people who didn't care if it was swine or otherwise and aren't at the dr. being swabbed and "counted." I know my kids, dh, and I would not be.

 

I think everyone knows more and more cases are going to pop up, and that many people will not go to the Dr. That is why its interesting to me that they suddenly decided to go from one week to two.

 

I wonder what will happen come actual flu season. Is the hope to have the vaccine done by then? Or will we see school closures again?

[fshinkevich]

Wow, they havent done that here yet. I was just thinking about the moms who have their kids in ps and work, they must be pulling out hair, if districts close. What can they do, daycare???

 

I know, hopefully employers are being understanding in the circumstances. Although, I read another article that stated many parents saying the are already unemployed so it's not a big deal for them :(

[Tree House Academy]

Maybe I am just not impressed because school closings don't have an effect on us at all (as homeschoolers with no one in ps).

 

Personally, I think they should just shut down everything for about a week and call it good. ;) LOL

[KidsHappen]

If this is a new strain then doesn't it stand to reason that most people are not immune to it and therefore, will get it? Isn't it pretty much inevitable? Would shutting everything down really make much difference or is it just going to slow things down some? If it was likely that you were going to get this flu anyhow, would it be better to get it now or in six months?

[fivetails]

This is part of a comment that was posted in relation to a news story on one of the Canadian sites - and it got me thinking..

 

So I got back from Mexico this week and have since been treated like a leper. I've been told by my work that under no terms am I welcome there, yet who pays me? I refused to take sick days as I am not sick and want to go in as I need to be paid! Does anyone know the law over this? If my work tells me to stay home, isn't it THEIR resposibility to pay me regardless?

 

Now - I wonder.. what *does* happen in situations like this? Thinking of labour laws and such... *can* an employer force an employee to "take a week off" or something, if they aren't sick? I wonder how labour regulations would deal with that sort of thing... union rules ... all that.

 

This was just one comment, one example. . but it could happen more.. not just to healthy people who've been to Mexico, but let's say a boss finds out that an employee's kids were friends with another kid who was confirmed as having it. Or the employees mother. Mother-in-law. Cousin. Whatever...

 

Being forced to take a week or two off work could mean eviction for some families - two weeks pay is a BIG DEAL for many many people. . .

 

It just made me think about it, what the person said in his comment..

[Barb_]

If this is a new strain then doesn't it stand to reason that most people are not immune to it and therefore, will get it? Isn't it pretty much inevitable? Would shutting everything down really make much difference or is it just going to slow things down some? If it was likely that you were going to get this flu anyhow, would it be better to get it now or in six months?

 

I think the idea is containment. Fewer people falling ill means it is less likely to mutate and come back in a more evil from next fall. If just a handful of people are left with it in the summer when it doesn't transmit as well, it may simply die off and disappear from lack of hosts. I'm guessing :::shrug:::

 

Barb

[Peek a Boo]

If it was likely that you were going to get this flu anyhow, would it be better to get it now or in six months?

 

If indeed i had a choice between now or later, it seems reasonable that later we'll know much much more about it and possible treatments/ shots.

:D

[Perry]

If this is a new strain then doesn't it stand to reason that most people are not immune to it and therefore, will get it? Isn't it pretty much inevitable? Would shutting everything down really make much difference or is it just going to slow things down some? If it was likely that you were going to get this flu anyhow, would it be better to get it now or in six months?

 

Each illness has it's own unique attack rate, but I don't know what it is yet for this virus. Attack rate is the number of new cases in a group of individuals in a certain amount of time. For the Spanish flu, the estimated attack rate was ~20-30% in adults, and a little higher in kids. So not everyone became infected, even though most were probably exposed at some point. Social distancing can definitely lower the attack rate, and if you do it enough, the epidemic may stop. Some possible consequences of social distancing:

Slow it down enough to stop the epidemic

Slow it down enough so that a vaccine becomes available

Slow it down enough so not everyone is sick at the same time, overwhelming resources and causing economic hardships.

 

Obviously, if an illness is mild, extreme social distancing is unnecessary and would be an overreaction. If an illness is severe, social distancing can be a critical component in minimizing the effects of the epidemic.

[Melissa in Australia]

I wonder what will happen come actual flu season. Is the hope to have the vaccine done by then? ?

 

 

 

the flue season is just about to start here in Australia. I am wondering too.

[Peela]

I think we have some partial immunity because all flu strains are related to the Spanish flu strain- its not like we have no immunity. Its just another variation, and variations come out each winter, and for most people, the immune system copes ok. Its not like when the English came to Australia originally and the common cold and other minor diseases would kill many aborigines because they had no immunity because they had no previous exposure to the viruses the English brought out with them. We have, generation after generation, been exposed to similar enough viruses to this swine flu, that our immune system can cope.

 

Not sure if anyone else has posted the Mercola article on this yet. He raises some good points, even if you dont agree with everything he says (and I dont, usually).

 

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/04/29/Swine-Flu.aspx

[Peek a Boo]

Slow it down enough to stop the epidemic

Slow it down enough so that a vaccine becomes available

Slow it down enough so not everyone is sick at the same time, overwhelming resources and causing economic hardships.

 

Obviously, if an illness is mild, extreme social distancing is unnecessary and would be an overreaction. If an illness is severe, social distancing can be a critical component in minimizing the effects of the epidemic.

 

This is where the biggest fine line is right now-- tons of kids that need to be taken care of outside a school setting for WEEKS. That may not be an economic hardship for the GVT, but it sure is for many families I'm sure.

 

Not to mention the community events that have been cancelled, including fundraisers and market-driven sales.

[MomLovesClassics]

The local news on TV said that they were not going to test people with the flu, for the H1N1 flu virus (AKA swine flu) unless they physically traveled to Mexico in GA. I find this confusing. I understand testing is expensive, but what about tracking actual cases. It appears many cases would go unreported if people are not being tested. When out in public, I have no idea who has or has not been to Mexico, and I am not about to ask. I do see risk factors, airplanes that fly to and from Mexico. Also there are many Mexican communities, Mexican food stores, etc. Please do not misunderstand that I am attempting to blame Mexico, or Mexicans. I am just saying, I am confused as to why officials do not want to test people with the flu, there are people who travel to and from those areas with confirmed swine flu in this state, and people who have associated either directly or indirectly.

[LatinTea]

I read that the CDC is in the process of developing a vaccine for this flu. It will be available by the fall. They said the 'science' is there, but it will take time. So, until then wash your hands and be prepared. I'm off to check my vitamins...:)

 

Margo

[HeatherInWI]

Same question here as someone else -- how can they tell us that there are "only" a certain number of people with this flu when they're telling most people who may have it to stay home and not bother to be tested? How are we going to know what the fatality rate is if we have no clue how many people have caught it or how far the person to person transmission is going?

[Perry]

Same question here as someone else -- how can they tell us that there are "only" a certain number of people with this flu when they're telling most people who may have it to stay home and not bother to be tested? How are we going to know what the fatality rate is if we have no clue how many people have caught it or how far the person to person transmission is going?

 

You don't have to know of every single case to calculate rates and understand transmission. It's impossible and unnecessary. That's what epi studies are all about- you gather a sample that represents the population you are interested in, and then use your sample to estimate those rates.

[fivetails]

Tit for tat? A farm worker up here has given the piggy flu BACK to a bunch of pigs. :tongue_smilie:

[wulfbourne]

I read that the CDC is in the process of developing a vaccine for this flu. It will be available by the fall. They said the 'science' is there, but it will take time. So, until then wash your hands and be prepared. I'm off to check my vitamins...:)

 

Margo

 

They might have it done quicker than that.

 

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/6404971.html

 

Personally though, I don't trust any new vaccines in general much less one rushed into production. It's a mild virus right now everyplace except Mexico for whatever reason. I'll take my chances boosting out immune system and washing our hands.

[MomLovesClassics]

bump

[Melinda in VT]

The local news on TV said that they were not going to test people with the flu, for the H1N1 flu virus (AKA swine flu) unless they physically traveled to Mexico in GA. I find this confusing. I understand testing is expensive, but what about tracking actual cases. It appears many cases would go unreported if people are not being tested. When out in public, I have no idea who has or has not been to Mexico, and I am not about to ask. I do see risk factors, airplanes that fly to and from Mexico. Also there are many Mexican communities, Mexican food stores, etc. Please do not misunderstand that I am attempting to blame Mexico, or Mexicans. I am just saying, I am confused as to why officials do not want to test people with the flu, there are people who travel to and from those areas with confirmed swine flu in this state, and people who have associated either directly or indirectly.

 

Yep. DH got back from Mexico less than 36 hours before we left on our family vacation to Virginia and DC. Because we don't stay up on current events when we travel, we didn't really hear much about swine flu until the second week of our trip, by which time DH's sore throat was over. Up until then, he'd been assuming he'd caught the kids' cold, although they had sniffles and coughs instead of a sore throat.

 

Having said that, I don't think what he had was the swine flu. He didn't have a fever or aches or exhaustion. But it does make one wonder.

[Renai]

I'm sure you mean NEW Mexico :tongue_smilie:, and there are two, possibly three suspected cases as of this mornings news. Two in our northern county. The one not in our county is home-schooled.

 

And, incidently, the homeschooled 18 year old male is the first confirmed swine flu case, out of over 100 samples tested so far.

[Quad Shot Academy]

The local news on TV said that they were not going to test people with the flu, for the H1N1 flu virus (AKA swine flu) unless they physically traveled to Mexico in GA.

 

On Wed. my 9 year old was fine, on Thur. morning he woke with a fever, cough and runny nose. *Thankfully* he was rolling on the ground grabbing his ear, so I knew it was an ear infection. The doctor thought that it was likely that he was coming down with another virus on top of the ear infection and told me to come back if he had trouble breathing and she would test him for swine. She said that they are not testing patients for swine unless they are in severe respiratory distress. Thankfully after 2 days on antibiotics all of his symptoms but clogged ears are gone.

 

We took my daughter into the same doctor a month ago because she was having trouble walking after recovering from a bad virus. The doctor told me that she felt obligated to test her for the flu so that she could report it to the CDC if necessary. She swabbed my daughter at my expense even though it would not change her treatment in any way. She was positive for Influenza B. She told me that Influenza A happens early in the season and B late in the season. So, I find it confusing as to why they don't at least do the rapid flu test in the office. If it came back as positive for Influ. A, you would know that the person most likely has swine, if what she said about A and B is correct for all areas of the country.

 

I am of the opinion that it would be better to catch it now while it is a mild virus and get immunity than catching later, if it happens to mutate into something nasty. We are not going to swine parties or anything crazy, but we are not staying home either. We are doing our normal flu season precautions.

[Perry]

The doctor told me that she felt obligated to test her for the flu so that she could report it to the CDC if necessary.

 

:confused:

 

Each state has their own list of reportable diseases. I know pediatric influenza deaths are reportable in many (maybe all) states, but I don't think influenza is a reportable illness anywhere.

 

I could be wrong.

[Quad Shot Academy]

:confused:

 

Each state has their own list of reportable diseases. I know pediatric influenza deaths are reportable in many (maybe all) states, but I don't think influenza is a reportable illness anywhere.

 

I could be wrong.

 

Strange! Maybe she said that because of whatever muscle complication she had? It had some long name, but basically her muscles were so inflamed and tight that she could not walk for a few days. I am very certain that she told me that she felt obligated to swab her so she could report it if necessary. Maybe she did not say to the CDC though.

 

If they are not reporting normal flu to the CDC, how does the CDC keep the statistics that we keep hearing about?

[Perry]

Strange! Maybe she said that because of whatever muscle complication she had? It had some long name, but basically her muscles were so inflamed and tight that she could not walk for a few days. I am very certain that she told me that she felt obligated to swab her so she could report it if necessary. Maybe she did not say to the CDC though.

 

If they are not reporting normal flu to the CDC, how does the CDC keep the statistics that we keep hearing about?

 

 

Oh, I get it. I think she was ruling out some sort of influenza complication. That makes sense.

[Ibbygirl]

I just heard this morning that there are now 2 confirmed cases of the swine flu in Florida and 8 others that are suspect but the lab results are not back yet. :(

[MomLovesClassics]

Pigs confirmed infected in Alberta Canada. Article stated they were infected by a farm worker who traveled to Mexico. The farm worker is on his way to recovery, and so are the pigs.

Edited May 3, 2009 by MomLovesClassics

[Tree House Academy]

Perry, does the report of Pigs being infected change anything? I mean, is this some kind of "oh my!" type thing with pigs getting it from humans? I know dogs can get strep from people. Just curious if this changes anything at all. Is it bizarre?

[fivetails]

Pigs confirmed infected in Alberta Canada. Article stated they were infected by a farm worker who traveled to Mexico. The farm worker is on his way to recovery, and so are the pigs.

 

Heh, I posted about that yesterday - and I have to admit, I laughed my arse off when I read that. The news has been mainly all about the US school closures and statistics - we had to go do something backward to get our share of the piggy flu attention. :tongue_smilie:

[Melissa in FL]

I just heard this morning that there are now 2 confirmed cases of the swine flu in Florida and 8 others that are suspect but the lab results are not back yet. :(

 

I'm in the Tampa area. We don't have any confirmed cases yet, but they are testing one man in Pinellas County (St Pete) and 5 in Hillsbourgh Co (Tampa). Three school are closed this next week. They have confirmed cases in Orange, Broward, and Lee County.

Melissa

[MomLovesClassics]

I admit that I am a bit confused. The tone of the local news is that it is no longer considered all that serious, as if the CDC cried wolf. Also a woman in a Georgia hospital was reclassified as a Kentucky case since whe was only visiting. If that is the case why were some of the Texas cases not reclassified as Mexico cases? I am starting to think the numbers are way underestimated. I also read that the WHO plans to raise the level to 6. I am still confused about Mexico, at first the death rate reported was over 150, and that has changed to less than 20. I am just confused this whole flu thing seems strange.

[Ibbygirl]

I'm in the Tampa area. We don't have any confirmed cases yet, but they are testing one man in Pinellas County (St Pete) and 5 in Hillsbourgh Co (Tampa). Three school are closed this next week. They have confirmed cases in Orange, Broward, and Lee County.

Melissa

 

 

Yeah I'm in Broward cty, but to my knowledge they aren't closing any schools yet. Just telling the girl who is infected that she cannot come.

 

5 cases in Hillsborough! Wow! Almost all my family are over there in Tampa. I hope no one gets sick. Some of my relatives there are quite elderly now.

[newbie]

I think we are up to 17. I could be wrong. I think State is popping up w/ a lot of cases and we have three school closures. :glare: