Help me out, please; I'd like some other perspectives on the subject of control.

[Colleen]

What do you consider the difference between exerting a reasonable amount of control versus being too controlling? I am in general a person who likes to have control. If I'm honest, it's one of the reasons ~ though certainly not the only ~ I homeschool. (I think the same is true of many parents who homeschool. Laura Corin recently started an interesting thread about that very subject.)

 

I find that much of my life as a mother, homemaker, and teacher does require that I'm in the driver's seat; often, it's part and parcel with the job. I control my children's education. I control our household organization. Although perhaps the word "manage" is more apt than "control". But my point is that yes, I am used to controlling/managing a good deal when it comes to my children and home.

 

On the other hand, much of my life is not in my direct control. With respect to our business, for example, my opinions are secondary. To me, this is huge, because I often would like to go in a different direction, but I have to accept that I am not the primary person in charge of the operation. I usually feel like I'm just along for the ride. As well, there are a lot of things my boys do on the farm that I'd rather they not do, but I'm essentially forced to look the other way. Finally, there have been specific incidences when I've been tested and managed to go completely hands-off despite strong emotions to the contrary. (Sitting here alone in the last weeks of a difficult pregnancy while my husband took our boys on a vacation to Switzerland comes to mind.)

 

One of dh's continual complaints about me is that I try to control everything. I can see his point since, as I acknowledged, I do like to have control. Where it gets difficult for me is when I receive that criticism with regard to everything I do. How much control is too much? For many of us, our families are used to us being The Organizer. We juggle all manner of work/school/home work. We know the world won't come to an end if we died tomorrow. We know others can do what we do. But right here, right now, no one else wants to take care of all the mundane but necessary tasks, so we take charge, do the job, and do it well.

 

Should our "control" stop at the door? Is it normal/good/bad/something else to want our way with regard to what happens to our children beyond our line of vision? I'm not referring to things like kids eating some junk at grandma's house on occasion, or watching too many cartoons at a play date. I'm thinking about issues that we consider to be matters of safety and/or conscience. I've mentioned here before, for example, that my guys have done great many things that I consider wholly unsafe, e.g. walking around on a roof at a very young age, rowing boat out into open water far from shore, operating farm equipment when imo they're too young. There's a long list. In each case, I'd prefer to err on the side of caution (and keep in mind no one would ever accuse me of being over-protective). My preference is perceived as another example of trying to control everything.

 

I'm probably not making a good deal of sense and...well, there's really no good answer, either. I just...I can totally understand that for a person who doesn't share my concerns/beliefs/whatever, my desire to do it "my" way simply comes across as being controlling. And yet, when do we back off from something that's important to us? Especially when our children's safety is (potentially) at issue? And furthermore, how do we react when we hear that people are simply "going along with" the way the home is run when we've previously been told figuring those things out and doing them is our job?

 

Anyway. How and where do you draw the lines in your life when it comes to control?

[ElizabethB]

I'm an INTP, so I have a very small need/desire for control.

 

However, I do exert firm control in areas that compromise anyone in the family's physical or spiritual safety, especially the children.

 

I weigh the consequences, as well. For example, if the worst that can happen from the behavior is a minor injury, I'm not as apt to worry about it. For example, 95% of the moms at the park think I'm crazy because I let my children run around barefoot in all weather. However, the worst that may happen is a small injury, so they get to be barefoot. When they get really cold, they do put on shoes, but most of the year they go barefoot here.

 

On the other hand, when my son was 2, I did follow him around in certain areas of the playground because there were areas where a 2 year old could have a fall that would be potentially fatal if you fell just right (wrong.) I also keep my dishwasher soap on the top shelf even now--it's potentially fatal if ingested, why store it where someone could accidently ingest it.

 

As a Christian, it's (usually) comforting to remember who really has control...even when we think we do, we often don't! (Sometimes this is only appreciated in hindsight.)

[Rosie_0801]

If you can't please the other person, you might as well please yourself. I'm accused of being far more controlling (and a few other adjectives) than I actually am, so I'm perceived that way even if I wasn't being. If I'm really worried, I'll ask dh, and he usually assures me I'm not being a psycho. It is normal to want control over things, it's normal to care more about some things and be willing to let other things slide. Where do I draw the line? As far away from myself as I can get away with usually! I usually have good reasons for the decisions I make, can always run the idea past dh for another opinion and will modify my opinion if I it needs to be modified. It's not my fault if someone sees me as some kind of dictator because they are lacking confidence. So, something to consider is whether the problem is you being overbearing or them being defensive due to a weaker character? Sometimes it can be the way you use language too. This has been a problem with my dad and I. He has accused me of not letting other people have opinions, which is plain silly. I think everyone should do what I think is best, but that doesn't mean I expect them to! Anyway, he went off to some hippy zodiac chart plotting seminar and concluded from looking at my chart that I'm not actually as bossy as it seems, I'm just enthusiastic. I don't actually behave any differently now, but enthusiasm is easier for Dad to swallow :) Don't worry so much, you probably can't help it. It's written in the stars! Even the most controlling of us can't reach that far with white out!

:)

Rosie

[Osmosis Mom]

It's an intricate subject you are bringing up, Colleen. I am supposing you are referring to control within the marriage, not about your children? In any case, then I also am a controller (and a homeschooler!!).

 

Dh is a good guy, but not always on the same page as me in several issues fx. in regards to the kids. I occasionally (regularly?) voice my annoyance with things he does with them, but the kids have come to realise that we do things differently, and they better not expect the same from us both. I guess I have backed off in the way that I voice my anoyance, but that's all I do. I let him be different than what I'd want fx. towards the kids. I am thinking in the big picture it won't really matter.

 

About being in control with my children, then I do back off (or try to), especially in regards to my now teen ds who is 13. I have two older dd's (one who is turning out to be very oppositional mother type and the other who is past this stage at 17). My son definitely has a much larger need for feeling in control and for deciding things on his own (in order to want to perform or comply). So I either let him be the rider or give him a few open-ended options to choose from, making him feel like he is in charge. I think this is a male thing, but I am still raising this kiddo and learning.

 

In control with friends...that's an old pet-peeve of mine, which has caused some internal annoyancefor years. Being annoyed that others can't folow their end of the deal (that I set up, but hey, they were happy to comply!!).

 

Guess I don't have any answer for you except to do what is best for the marriage in the long term!!

[MamaT]

I tend to control as well. I have learned over the years to back off when I think something is unsafe and dh thinks it's fine. He is much more likely to allow them/tell them to do something that is borderline unsafe than I am. I use WAY more caution.

 

For example, he bought my ds10 a hatchet and lets him go off in the woods to chop things by himself. He has also let my dc go out in our canoe when I would'nt have. My dc have also been up on the roof. He had my 15yo burn out our pond for the summer (big fire) by himself.

 

I have to say, my dc have never been harmed or injured doing any of these things. It still makes me nervous. I have learned to just keep my mouth shut because I don't want the "controlling" speech.

[Chris in VA]

This is such a good question for me to think about, Colleen, esp in light of my son's addictions. As much as he works the 12 steps, those around him in his support have to, too. Of course, it's all about surrendering control.

 

I never knew how much control was related to fear in my case, until I really dug under my feelings to see what was motivating my desire to know what was going on around me, and have an influence of some sort. I have strong opinions, and part of that is because I want my way--because I think I know what's best. When I think that way, I naturally want to control what happens. This is all jumbly--I guess what I'm trying to say is that much of time, for me, controlling behavior is a way to manage my anxiety/fear. In some cases, I think if I don't exert some control, bad things (in various degrees) will happen.

 

I think what I've come to is that some bad things really aren't likely, and some other bad things--well, I just have to play it out all the way in my mind. "Ok, so if I don't control this, this other thing may happen. If this other thing happens, someone will (be uncomfortable, sad, hurt, injured, not maximizing effectiveness, grow up to be something undesirable, use drugs, die...)." I used to stop there when contemplating controlling something. Now I take it farther--"So, say I don't control this, and someone uses drugs. Then what would happen?---THEN what would happen? Then? Then?" If I take it far enough, I can usually see that I'm not really the Mistress of the Universe.

 

Even when I do control, there are still things that are going to go as they are going to go, because we are all interconnected, and all of us have far more influence on each other and on the world than we even know. It's exhausting to try to control so much. I'm sick of being so darned tired from attempting the impossible. I'm coming to terms with the fact that it's simply not my job.

 

There's Big C control and Little C control. Don't sub one for the other, or think you can even have Big C control.

 

Learning to let go has been freeing. I'm still responsible, I'm just making a clearer distinction between what is my job to oversee, and what isn't. Oh--therein lies the question...:lol: Geez, sometimes I need to ramble to process...

 

I think my heart knows the difference. I can tell the difference between a matter of opinion and a matter of true importance more easily if I do the above exercise (taking things to their conclusions in my head--really going far with that), and if I check to see how I'm feeling about the other person who is trying to control--If I feel irritation at that person, it's likely that it's just a matter of opinion and nothing truly bad will probably happen.

 

I think, too, that letting go of some of the control is ultimately about trust. Perhaps the secret to letting go is to learn how to trust. If the person in your life is not trustworthy in some respects, as you seem to say is your situation, then your trust needs to be placed in a higher authority. I choose to trust the one who can control the Big C stuff. Doesn't mean no one gets hurt--just that, ultimately, all will be well.

 

Hope you can glean something useful from this ramble.

[Peela]

One of the things I like about threads like this is we get to realise that we are not the only one ;)

However in my family dynamic, my dh is the control freak. (maybe he wouldnt agree though :) ) He is the one that doesn't want my son making home made bows and arrows,or match head bombs, and who likes more than normal to have strong influence on the people in his life. I have spent our whole marriage finding my voice and strength and standing up to him, in order to stand side by side with him. It has been good- for both of us. I think these dynamics around control are normal iin life and especially in many marriages....and its a rare couple who can parent without having slightly different perspectives and having to negotiate through them.

 

I think, to some extent, its hard to change our personalities. We can learn to negotiate, to pick our battles, and we can learn to soften around the edges when we see ourselves becoming rigid in our position rather than open and flexible to the situation.

 

Maybe it also helps to notice if anything actually usually goes wrong when you let go of control, when you let the other have their way now and again, or when there is no choice. Do things stuff up? Are there unecessary accidents and injuries? or do things generally work out ok? Everyone has their own innate sense of self preservation, even small children. I was the mum sitting in the park while my 2 or 3 year olds climbed slides and went down alone, after the first few times I helped them. I was not a hoverer- my parents were very good at not putting fear into me, and they encouraged my brother and I to trust ourselves. I was the mum who let them use sharp knives and play with fire. I personally have noticed that women tend to get in the way between children and possible danger more than is often healthy- not that I think you do that Colleen because I doubt you do. The situations you have described are ones I would be concerned about too and I am the least over-protective parent in my marriage. But you only have to go to a playground to see how some women hover around their children unecessarily, actually training their child to be frightened, instead of training the child to learn their limits.

 

One parent might also try to over compensate for what they perceive is an over controlling partner, and encourage more risk taking than is generally considered safe.

 

I have had arguments with my husband over many things- bows and arrows, visiting friends, making home made bombs, and especially gymnastics and our trampoline. I am the one who has taken the kids to gym for many years now, I see what they do there, under strict supervision....dh hasnt, and I feel is less qualified to say what is a safe move to do on our trampoline- and yes, I know many accidents do happen on trampolines. We have compromised at times. Other times I over ride. When ds and dd started at a teenager/adult gymnastic class, dh simply forbade it, he was so concerned for their safety. I felt he was irrational. I took them anyway- they have no other sport. After a few weeks, he was fine, since they came home uninjured.

 

These dynamics happen in many marriages and there's no formula. I think each situation is unique. I do think often though that opposites attract, and we can usually learn from our opposite. I know dh's knee jerk controlling manner has taught me how to stand on my own two feet, speak clearly, and also to take more control over our son who is also a control freak like his dad, bless him :). And in turn, dh is far less rigid, less likely to fly off the handle, to demand his way...he has softened a lot over the years, especially since I really try and honour his opinion more. No one likes to be discounted. In fact, thats when I find our arguments over children and safety- or anything, actually- really escalate. Not when I stand my ground. He responds quite well to strength and clarity. But when I defend against his opinion, instead of really letting him have his say.

 

We joke a lot about our differences, wonder how we made it so far, and tease each other about things like being a control freak. It helps to keep a sense of humour, especially towards oneself :)

Edited March 25, 2009 by Peela

[klmama]

When it comes to my ds's safety, I let dh decide. So far, ds hasn't been injured too badly doing the things dh thinks are safe, but I don't. Just a few cuts and bruises. It's hard, but it is helping ds become competent. I just pray a lot.

[Danestress]

Just a few disconnected thoughts:

 

(1) There is some kind of trade off between power/control and responsibility. I have a tendency to avoid responsibility - not in the sense of "getting dinner on the table is your responsibility" - that I can handle. But I tend to avoid more ultimate responsibility. If DH and I have hard decisions to make, I might have an opinion, but I tend not to push it because I don't want to be responsible for how things turn out. I am perfectly comfortable doing things his way and knowing that if they don't go well, I will get to play the role of 'gracious wife who is in it for the long run' rather than 'defensive wife who knows she screwed up.' This wouldn't apply to situations where the kids are endangered, necessarily, but it would apply to running a business, choosing a home, etc. And while it makes me less controlling, it's not out of purity of heart. It's out of fear of messing up and also probably fear of being perceived as controlling and then being wrong.

 

I always look for the flip side of a difficult personality trait, and I would say that if you are controlling, then perhaps you are also a take charge, step up to the plate person, and that can be a very very good thing. The non-controlling personality might be easier to be married to, but our world couldn't run well without the more controlling people who want the power and are willing to take the responsibility that comes with it.

 

 

(2) Relationships are hard. We pick up on things and have feeling that are difficult to itemize. I think my mother is disapproving. She would vehemently argue that she is not, and she could honestly tell you that she's very generous with compliments. It's true. She is. But I am her daughter and I "catch" the subtle disapproval in thousand ways.

 

Likewise, you can honestly say that you let your kids do all kinds of things that don't appear controlling, and in fact are strong evidence to the contrary. But your husband feels you are controlling and I bet he would get frustrated by your list of things you don't and haven't controlled, because it's probably more subtle than that for him. I know this sounds corny and obvious, but ask the Lord to search out your heart.

 

Control and anger are closely linked, I think. Ask God to help you identify and deal with your anger, your wounds, your control. Ultimately, your husband is going to notice and struggle against your sin, but only God can really help you deal with it, you know? I'm not saying that your sin is in not being totally submissive and non-controlling in your marriage. You know that's not me. But I do think that if your are having hard discussions about control in your marriage, you are probably having anger issues in your hearts - not just anger about the marriage, you understand, but also anger that probably goes back much further than when you met each other.

 

(3) I don't know what to say about the kids. I am like you - not extremely protective and sometimes actually considered neglectful by other Mom who are more careful - but I would have problems with the things you mentioned as dangerous, too. Luckily DH and I tend to be on the same page overall. I am good about letting Grandma feed them garbage (it does bother me, but I nurture the relationship they have with her) but if she were letting them play on the roof, I think I would quickly get in touch with my inner control freak. When my children are doing something a little dangerous, I sometimes struggle with overwhelming feelings of dread. My sister took my kids to a water park once, and I was paralyzed with fear and intrusive horrible thoughts all day. I would have had less of that if I had actually been there - so I guess that's some kind of control thing. But it sounds like, for better or worse, you have already conceded these issues.

 

(4) Ultimately I think that God has used a lot of things in my life to show me that I am not in control. I tend to be a bit fatalistic, and I think fatalistic people are less controlling than people who fight against circumstances. I also think that raising one child into adulthood is like a "master class" in learning to recognize your own issues with control, pride, and anger. But there is always sin under so many of our motives. So perhaps I am (or appear) less controlling than you, but if that's all about protecting my "nice wife" image or my "cool Mom" image from appearing to be controlling, that doesn't leave me with clean hands. I deeply need to be "okay" in my relationships - to not be at odds or even have tension with my husband, kids, parents, sisters. And sometimes that's not the healthiest way to live.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Danestress

[secular_mom]

There is absolutely no way I'd let my kids operate farm equipment, or do other such things that I consider unsafe. No way. There are some things that I consider 'compromisable' and others that I just can't.

 

My thoughts: Maybe it's the way ideas are presented that makes others feel that one is too controlling? I know I've heard my step-MIL say things that just sound harping and sometimes ridiculously hyper and harsh. But, IMO, her complaints are always shallow ones about appearance and such, and putting others (who are not her immediate family) in their place. It's grating, she's insulting, and no one wants to hear her any more.

I can't stand to visit FIL and his children because of her.

Now, I am NOT saying that this is you, just thinking that maybe others don't like the tone or something.

 

Another thought, maybe, even though one is in charge of many aspects of daily life, the other person (the one who complains about someone being a control freak) is the ACTUAL control freak. ;-) If two people are very insistent on having their way, and one resorts to name calling (control freak), or just ignores the other persons concerns, then IMO THAT person is the one with issues. Just a thought.

[Happy]

This is an interesting topic and thread. For starters let me say that my children think it is highly appropriate that I have a magnet on the fridge that says, 'I'm not bossy. I just know what YOU need to be doing.'

 

My husband started driving a tractor at age eight. Driving a pick up or a big water tank truck came shortly after that. He started flying airplanes as soon as he could legally get a pilot's license at age 16.

 

I grew up jumping everything in sight, scrambling up on roofs with my carpenter granddad, and climbing any vertical object. I spent a lot of time in the emergency room getting casts and stitches.

 

It is hard to let my sons do what I did all the time. I know how easily it is to get hurt. My mommy imagination takes the story to the extreme, complete with funerals and large newspaper headlines. :001_huh: I have to fight that tendency repeatedly. Since my guys are all over eighteen now, I can see where *I've* stunted their natural manly spirits by being a too careful a mommy. KWIM?

 

There is control, then there is overbearing and just plain obnoxious. There is a woman at our church who is wreathed in smiles, but downright rude about control. I'm pretty good at getting along with people in a committee setting (I've been on boards of non-profits putting on major functions) and she exasperates me. It is her way or the highway--all. the. time. In matters as small as table arrangements for a banquet, it took three determined women to derail her. Our sons did an overseas mission trip two years ago. She purchased plane tickets for her two sons, but took two days to let us know. My dh had to scramble to get our son on the same flights. A simple phone call, 'hey, I've found tickets, are you ready to buy?' would have been a nice courtesy. Our sons will once again travel overseas this summer. We've had to be very firm about her making plans without our input. I would never do what she has been doing. We've asked them over for face-to-face meetings. Nope, they are toooooooooo busy, but not too busy to drive this particular bus. She makes me feel like hired help, not like an equal.

 

Controlling people have to work harder to make sure they are not running over others opinions and desires. I know, I've had to soften and learn to listen over the years.

 

None of this necessarily applies to you, Colleen. Just my random thoughts on the subject...as someone else said, I process as I write.

[Mommyfaithe]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

OH, Colleen....I could have written this post and I look forward to reading the reponses. My 14 yo ds told me I was manipulative and pushy....HUH????? Me???? The one who drives them to swim practice and meets 5 days a week?? me ...who researches school work according to THEIR desires and bents?? Me...who is a help meet to my dh...and goes to technical meetings and listens to all sorts of talk about plumbing and boiler installs etc...

ME???? who would lay down all my dreams and aspirations...who would throw myself in front of a moving train to protect my babies??

 

WOW!!! Did that hurt!!!

 

I wish someone would have manipulated me like this when I was a kid.

 

I wish someone believed in me enough to push me to my potential and not let laziness or fear stand in my way.

 

I wish someone had manipulated me into not hanging out with the wrong kids...manipulated me into being healthy...getting up on time...eating riight...making wise decisions...

 

Oh...wait a minute...that's not manipulating...that is LOVING!!!

 

 

OY...

This is a hard thankless job that is so hard to keep on..keeping on...

 

I with you Colleen....

Faithe

[WTMindy]

That is such a difficult question, Colleen! I think every marriage will do it differently depending on the personalities of the individuals. I wish I had some wonderful wise advice to offer to you, but I just have a :grouphug: and prayers. I think striking the balance on this issue is one of the keys to a good marriage, though. And it is SO HARD! And, harder when there are two strong personalities involved.

[angieathome]

I am seeing much merit in the response of "secular mom." When I hear that your dh is critical of everything you do, that sounds controlling to me. Are you both oldest children BTW? That was the case with me and my husband LOL. On the other hand, I think it is always wise to look at yourself honestly, which I hear you doing. I see a potential issue in your description of doing the mudane tasks and doing them well. I am hearing a possible bit of exactingness in how you expect the mudane things to be done--done well. If you are too specific about how and when tasks get done, that can be controlling. We came to the conclusion in our family that you really can't do your best at absolutely everything absolutely all of the time. If so, I could, for example, spend all day every day cleaning, washing walls, washing drapes, washing baseboards---you get the picture. Then nothing else would get done. There is a degree of sufficiency for most taks to be completed to allow life to proceed with balance and to allow each person to have some degree of control over their own priorities, or for a family to execute its priorities. This is one area where a mom can easily be perceived as being controlling. A second common area of trouble in the controlling arena has to do with allowing the expression of negative emotions. I think it is important for all people to feel free to express all emotions or they feel controlled and shut down. That doesn't mean a complaining free-for-all. In our family we set ground rules about how negative emotions must be expressed respectfully (no tantrums, foot stomping, yelling, door slamming, throwing things). You didn't mention this issue, but very often, emotional suppression is experienced as "the other person is controlling", and they can't describe how shut down they feel. I am really just offering suggestions based on my experience and have no idea if any of this is applicable to you. I just feel for you. Good luck!

[Sophia]

For the most part, men are going to define "too controlling" much different than women do.

At least, I know that is true with my dh.

He doesn't want to be consulted about much of the day to day stuff, but if he puts his foot down about something, particularly with the boys, he will expect me to concede and trust him.

And ultimately, isn't that what control is all about~not trusting the outcome if we let go?

Dh recently went to a conference where the issue of controlling wives came up: the response from the teachers was good (imo). They said wives were given as helpmeets, and since God expected us to help, it would behoove men to take our counsel seriously.

I have to say dh already does do that, but will remind me that I don't know anything about being a boy or a man and I need to just let him have the final say when it comes to the boys. (I should add, dh is a godly man and can be trusted completely in the moral sense; he's just more of a risk-taker than I am.)

I don't like it; submissiveness is something I learned late in life and is an ongoing struggle, yet I sense that he's right and that it's good for our children to see dh lead with his wife trusting/following him.

And I pray that God, who loves my dc more than I do, will keep them safe.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Sophia

[Reya]

I'm an INTP, so I have a very small need/desire for control.

 

However, I do exert firm control in areas that compromise anyone in the family's physical or spiritual safety, especially the children.

 

I weigh the consequences, as well. For example, if the worst that can happen from the behavior is a minor injury, I'm not as apt to worry about it. For example, 95% of the moms at the park think I'm crazy because I let my children run around barefoot in all weather. However, the worst that may happen is a small injury, so they get to be barefoot. When they get really cold, they do put on shoes, but most of the year they go barefoot here.

 

On the other hand, when my son was 2, I did follow him around in certain areas of the playground because there were areas where a 2 year old could have a fall that would be potentially fatal if you fell just right (wrong.) I also keep my dishwasher soap on the top shelf even now--it's potentially fatal if ingested, why store it where someone could accidently ingest it.

 

Me in a nutshell!

 

I want to teach my dc to control THEMSELVES. If I'm telling ds what to do, a good portion of the time, he's already in trouble!

[Michelle in AL]

Hmm, I'm probably in the same boat as you as my husband owns a business, which I do work for, for free by the way....because we can't afford to pay me :banghead:. I do the billing and some charting of medical records. Anyway, since I'm intricately involved in finances, and have been a manager before, I tend to have opinions and advice. Opinions and advice that tend not to be followed.

 

I've learned that we all have our spheres of control. Homeschooling and taking care of the house is my sphere. Work is his sphere. I believe we should not attempt to control what's outside our sphere. So technically I have to admit that I have no control over decisions regarding his work. If farming is your dh's sphere, then technically you'd have no control over farming decisions.

 

The sticky part is what to do when you're in a marriage and what they're doing is endangering some part of your family or well being. I think AA experts (who have kind of written the book on control and boundaries) would advise that you leave hands off and let the consequences fall where they may. I can't seem to do this when it comes down to the endangering part.

 

I think the children's safety falls into both of your spheres and has to be mutually agreed upon, by talking and negotiation. Easier said than done.

 

So I guess I'm no help, just commiserating. I've seen the bad effects of just shutting up and the negative effects of trying to assert my control. I guess the answer must lie in the middle. For now, I give my opinion about things outside my control, and only truly demand that I be at least heard when it's endangering someone's well being....whether that be physically, mentally or financially.

[newlifemom]

May we back up for a minute here? Did I miss something Colleen?

 

 

Sitting here alone in the last weeks of a difficult pregnancy while my husband took our boys on a vacation to Switzerland comes to mind

[Colleen]

Sitting here alone in the last weeks of a difficult pregnancy while my husband took our boys on a vacation to Switzerland comes to mind

 

May we back up for a minute here? Did I miss something Colleen?

 

Good grief, no! I was referring to the end of my last pregnancy, just before Kai was born (September 2004...golly, time flies!).

[katilac]

I'm very open about telling dh and everyone else around me that the person who was pregnant for 9 months and in labor for 12 hours is the person who gets final say where the SAFETY of the children is concerned.

 

Like ElizabethB, I am very okay with the possibility of minor injuries - heck, I'm really fine with the possibility of moderate injuries in pursuit of a worthwhile goal, and I also realize that freak accidents can happen at any time.

 

But it doesn't follow that I'm then okay with my kids taking unreasonable risks for very little reason. I'd be willing to allow/require them to physically demanding work, but I would not be willing to allow them to operate heavy farm equipment.

 

I look at in terms of risk/benefit ratio - the comparison of the risk of a situation to its benefits. My dd might hurt herself while helping on a landscaping job, but the risk is low and the injuries very unlikely to be anything but minor. There are solid benefits (earning money, building a work ethic), so we are willing to take that risk.

 

If we used power equipment, the risks would skyrocket. Severe injury is now a much more likely possibility, but there are no benefits that couldn't be gained in other, safer ways. It simply isn't worth the risk.

 

Okay, that's my philosophy on risk, on to control. Like Danestress, I see a clear link between responsibility and control. ((unlike her, I'm fine with having that control!)

 

It's evident that you are a person who likes being in control (there's nothing wrong with that!), but honestly, it's just as clear that your dh is the same way. You are actually far more open to allowing things that you disagree with than I would be. Leaving the safety issues aside, if my dh left for a vacation in Switzerland while I was nine months pregnant, he'd better have the good sense to STAY in Switzerland.

 

As far as how I would react if I were suddenly told that dh was just 'going along' with the way I run the household, I would ask him whose fault that was? He has a voice; if he has something to say, why not say it? Not that it would or should necessarily change the way you do things - - after all, sometimes we do all just have to 'go along' with things. You do it more often where the farm business is concerned; he needs to do it more often where the household organization and home schooling are concerned.

 

I think that your dh calling you controlling is both hurtful and unfair, not to mention an argument by diversion. The first rule of 'fair fighting' is to not make 'you' statements (you're being controlling, you don't understand, etc).

 

dh and I try to keep our respective OCD tendencies from colliding by ceding control to the person to whom the issue is most important, and/or the person who has responsibility for that issue. I would tell dh that we obviously need to have a long discussion about control, responsibility and communication.

[LizzyBee]

Having grown up on a farm in a community of farms, I did many things that I am not comfortable with my kids doing. I know that being able to operate machinery, drive at a young age, and take a few measured risks increases one's confidence and competence, and that can be a great thing. OTOH, working a farm is most likely going to involve some accidents, and all of us would like to protect our kids from that. Thinking back to the farm next door to ours, their kids had some horrific accidents, yet they all survived. The oldest son who broke one leg when he fell out of a silo and the other leg when a tractor rolled over on him (both before h.s. graduation) now runs the farm, so even those awful experiences weren't enough to make him leave the farm as an adult. Maybe it was because my dad had only one son but five daughters, but we didn't have as many accidents as some of the farms near us; in hindsight, I don't think my dad let us girls take as many risks as he would have allowed if we'd been boys.

 

I guess my response in your situation would be to insist on safety precautions in the face of potential dangers. Things like life vests on the boat; steel toed boots, no jewelry, and no long hair when operating equipment. I would want to know that dh is giving the kids plenty of training when he has them do something new and that he discusses safety issues with them in specific ways relative to the job they're doing. For me, that would be a reasonable compromise.

Edited March 25, 2009 by LizzyBee

[Guest Katia]

I'm very open about telling dh and everyone else around me that the person who was pregnant for 9 months and in labor for 12 hours is the person who gets final say where the SAFETY of the children is concerned.

 

Like ElizabethB, I am very okay with the possibility of minor injuries - heck, I'm really fine with the possibility of moderate injuries in pursuit of a worthwhile goal, and I also realize that freak accidents can happen at any time.

 

But it doesn't follow that I'm then okay with my kids taking unreasonable risks for very little reason. I'd be willing to allow/require them to physically demanding work, but I would not be willing to allow them to operate heavy farm equipment.

 

I look at in terms of risk/benefit ratio - the comparison of the risk of a situation to its benefits. My dd might hurt herself while helping on a landscaping job, but the risk is low and the injuries very unlikely to be anything but minor. There are solid benefits (earning money, building a work ethic), so we are willing to take that risk.

 

If we used power equipment, the risks would skyrocket. Severe injury is now a much more likely possibility, but there are no benefits that couldn't be gained in other, safer ways. It simply isn't worth the risk.

 

Okay, that's my philosophy on risk, on to control. Like Danestress, I see a clear link between responsibility and control. ((unlike her, I'm fine with having that control!)

 

It's evident that you are a person who likes being in control (there's nothing wrong with that!), but honestly, it's just as clear that your dh is the same way. You are actually far more open to allowing things that you disagree with than I would be. Leaving the safety issues aside, if my dh left for a vacation in Switzerland while I was nine months pregnant, he'd better have the good sense to STAY in Switzerland.

 

As far as how I would react if I were suddenly told that dh was just 'going along' with the way I run the household, I would ask him whose fault that was? He has a voice; if he has something to say, why not say it? Not that it would or should necessarily change the way you do things - - after all, sometimes we do all just have to 'go along' with things. You do it more often where the farm business is concerned; he needs to do it more often where the household organization and home schooling are concerned.

 

I think that your dh calling you controlling is both hurtful and unfair, not to mention an argument by diversion. The first rule of 'fair fighting' is to not make 'you' statements (you're being controlling, you don't understand, etc).

 

dh and I try to keep our respective OCD tendencies from colliding by ceding control to the person to whom the issue is most important, and/or the person who has responsibility for that issue. I would tell dh that we obviously need to have a long discussion about control, responsibility and communication.

 

:iagree: I really like what you have to say and how you said it. There is much truth here. Well worth several re-reads...for me and especially I would think for Colleen.

[katemary63]

There is absolutely no way I'd let my kids operate farm equipment, or do other such things that I consider unsafe. No way. There are some things that I consider 'compromisable' and others that I just can't.

 

I have had a very hard time with things like this. My idea of acceptable risk is a great deal different then DH's We live on a farm with a lot of dangerous equipment and firearms. We have had many discussions and it is difficult. I would prefer the kids just plain didn't take certain risks. But that is not practical. So, we have agreed that because I am more sensitive about the issue of safety and because my feelings do count, I have veto power. But we agree that I will only use my veto power if I am extremely personally convicted about a specific situation. I have used it. I simply say, "No, that will not happen" and DH accepts it. But most of the time, I trust DH. I know he loves them as much as I do and that he would never take what he would consider risks with their safety. He has proven himself over the years to be an excellent father and reasonable thinker. I have to trust that. But it is very hard. I don't always agree, and sometimes I just leave so I don't have to see it and feel anxiety. What I do have to do is understand that even though I think I am always right, that is not neccessarily the case. I hate it though. :glare:

[Guest Katia]

I am totally the wrong person to ask about control. Just see my response to the "do you get up with your dh in the morning" post, lol!

 

Yes, I am very controlling in my home, which is my area of influence and my responsibility, and with my dc. That is my job. I am ok with being controlling.

 

Quite frankly, if dh or dc said they were just 'going along' with the way I ran things, that would be ok with me, too. That is what I expect them to do.

 

If they want something changed or don't like the control I'm exerting in these areas, then they are certainly welcome to take over the responsibility and I'll back off. However, I find that more responsibility is not generally what they want when complaining, but less. For themselves. And more for me.

 

Ain't gonna happen here. I used to waffle and worry when I was younger, but the older I get....the firmer I become.

[katemary63]

'I'm not bossy. I just know what YOU need to be doing.'

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

This is hilarious! But it is also true sometimes,isn't it? For example, we went on a camping trip with another couple. We divided the days up between the two couples as to who would provide the meal. The first night was mine but we were VERY late arriving at our campground and we were all starving and it was dark. So, once we had the equipment set up, I started delagating to get dinner into our stomachs as fast as possible. I asked my friend's DH to get the grill set up. I asked my DH to slice buns and a couple of other things. I asked my friend to do something else and gave myself a chore as well. I simply KNEW what everyone needed to do to get the meal on the table ASAP because I had planned it. My DH was proud of his well organized and quick thinking wife.

 

WELL.... my friend's DH was another story. He told her after the trip that I was bossy and controling and not submissive to my husband and had no right to tell two men what to do. UGH! What immaturity! ( She told me this so that I would realize my errors and have a better marriage!) I wasn't barking orders. Just politely and with good spirit, delagating. What did he want to do, sit and watch while everyone else worked to get the meal on? This kind of "controling" is what I am and if someone doesn't like it, oh well.

 

BTW: While we were setting up the tent, I simply followed orders given by either guy because I needed to help to get it done fast, but didn't have a clue what to do. That was fine with me. You didn't hear me saying he was controling and bossy! :D

[Danestress]

this has become a thread about risk tolerance. I think my DH is slightly more of a worrier than I am in terms of risk. We aren't farm people, but I'm just thinking about things like how deep the kids can play in the waves before a parent gets nervous. I tend to be more carefree even though we have 3 boys. I worry *far* more about unlikely things like the plane going down or rental houses catching fire, but he's more worried about accidents and injuries. I think part of that is because he knows what the hospital bill will be. Also, his father was a massive massive worrier, so maybe he has a touch of that in him.

 

But really, in most families, I can't imagine that this is where real control issues get played out. If one parent is more nervous about risk, it's not necessarily rooted in control. I guess it's partly that, but it also just might be fear and protectiveness.

 

I would expect that husbands who feel their wives are controlling are really thinking more about money, use of time, and more regular interactions with the kids. You see this in divorces a lot - women who want to micromanage how the ex spends his weekend visits with the kids. I've seen Mothers who who wanted the judge to tell her ex that the kids can only watch a certain amount of tv or that they can have to have certain foods and not others, or that they have to be at bed at a certain time or can only watch G rated movies. Most of us have at least one controlling relative, and what are the issues? They need to control when we meet and what we do, who brings what for meals, etc. They tend to think they are "good planners" and the rest of us find them insufferable micro-managers! And they are probably both!

 

Anyway, I am not saying *at all* that you, Colleen, have these traits. But I do think that when we talk about "control" the issues around which major control issues arise are often sort of trivial to other people. When the issues is operating dangerous equipment when you are 11 years old, it just doesn't seem that controlling to me.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Danestress

[Colleen]

this has become a thread about risk tolerance...But really, in most families, I can't imagine that this is where real control issues get played out.

 

Oh, but it happens, trust me.

 

When the issues is operating dangerous equipment when you are 11 years old, it just doesn't seem that controlling to me.

 

Me either, but you'd be surprised at how much resentment/control freak-labeling I receive because of such issues. Although you're of course right that it isn't all about risk tolerance.

[swellmomma]

I am seen as rather controlling. Most people chalk it up to me being a single parent and therefore having to be fully in control, so they do things my way most of the time without comment. Certain things like about their safety I do not waver on, but over all my kids have more freedoms than other kids, for example my son started playing on the roof by the time he was 4, so now if he is out on teh shed roof etc I don't worry about it, it just means he was promoted to gutter cleaner in the spring by the time he was 7 because I am too scared of heights myself to get up there.

 

I don't have farm equipment but even at age 10 I do not let him use the lawn mower. I can handle him on the roof I can not handle the thought of him operating machinery that can amputate limbs or kill.

 

I think if one is trying to be so controlling that they are riding everyone's backs all the time, nagging, correcting etc and generally forcing your opinions/ideals on other's and NEVER letting them do their things, or in the case of the kids make their own mistakes etc then it is too controlling. If however, you simply control those areas that are obvious, do your best to keep the kids safe without hovering etc then no it is not controlling behaviour.

 

I agree with the pp that said the one complaining that someone else is controlling is because they in reality are the control freaks and can't stand the thought of relinquishing control of anything, and based on what you are writing you are not the one that has been unable to give up control.

[The Governess]

I'll admit it: I like being in control. The most stressful situations I can think of involve something unwise/unsafe/unhealthy happening and me having no control over it or means of resolving it. Luckily, while my dh is a strong personality, he doesn't need to be in control of everything, although he definitely has his opinions. I find myself doing a lot of research and convincing, and he usually sees things my way after a time. :D

 

As for our girls, dh and I kind of have this unspoken agreement that if I'm not comfortable with something involving them, it won't be happening. I truly believe that mothers have a certain intuition that needs to be listened to, that feeling that "something about this situation is just not right." The book Protecting the Gift deals with this and reading it has helped confirm for me that, as the mother, being able to have the last word when it comes to the safety of our children is a reasonable (and good!) expectation.

 

In the past I have struggled with anxiety issues, and I am now much more selective over what I attempt to exert control over. I tune out a lot of things. Dh knows not to talk to me about what is happening with his business too much; it stresses me out to hear about problems if I can't *do* something about them. So, he talks about them to other people and tells me the bare minimum that I need to know. :D This has had a positive impact on our marriage. :001_smile:

 

Last, I have learned that once I hand over a responsibility, I need to *completely* let it go. I don't do this lightly, but once something is out of my hands, it's out. So if we leave our girls with someone for the night, I don't worry about them while I'm gone. I've made the decision to leave them with a lot of thought, and I've decided to trust the person I'm leaving them with. This is only one example, but really letting a responsibility go once I've assigned it has really helped me to not feel like such a control freak. :001_smile: It's incredibly difficult, but allowing myself to do it has really lifted a weight off my shoulders.

 

As a person who likes holding the reigns, I'm sure that this is going to be a life-long battle for me. One step at a time, as they say. :001_smile: Luckily I'm not a mother of dare-devil boys! :grouphug::grouphug:

[Margaret in GA]

I don't have any wise things to say, just wanted to chime in that I, too am a control freak. ;)

 

Regarding farm safety... My next door neighbor was killed when a tractor rolled over on him when he lost control on a steep hill in high school. Yet, we continued operating our farm equipment (sometimes driving a very large tractor on *very* steep hills) Of course, I was not 11, I was 14-18.

 

Margaret

[muffinmom]

Sometimes it can be the way you use language too. This has been a problem with my dad and I. He has accused me of not letting other people have opinions, which is plain silly. I think everyone should do what I think is best, but that doesn't mean I expect them to!

 

I think this is important...those of us who tend to be controlling also tend to not be so kind when we are "telling everyone what to do." Even if we have been asked to be in charge of something, people still want to be respected. In the case of my dh...he would just like to be considered in the process. It really has to do with the way I speak to him and treat him. Everyone is usually glad for someone else to take on the responsibility (whatever it may be), but they don't want to feel like they are being bossed around. Like Rosie said above...they feel as if your way is the only way (even if you don't mean it that way, their perception is as good as reality and is hindering the relationship).

 

In terms of safety issues...I think those have to be negotiated. One partner will always be more cautious (that's me!) but just because I have more fears or reservations, I shouldn't always get my way. I know for a fact that I'm too fearful and I should allow myself some discomfort in certain situations and therefore more freedom to my kids. Having said that, some situations are more appropriate for this than others.

 

In the end, my dh always reminds me that the relationship is the goal...not all the tasks we have, etc. So if this issue is hindering your relationship, hopefully you can both find a way to come together, not for the sake of your family function or your goals but simply for your relationship.

[Nan in Mass]

If you replace the word "control" with the word "fuss" or the word "worry", maybe you will find that the whole situation sounds more normal and less like something you need to feel guilty over. Nobody could accuse me of being over protective either, but one of the biggest things I have to negotiate about with my husband, I'd even say the biggest thing, is what the boys (14, 18, and 21) are and are not allowed to do. Every year, I fuss about whether the ice is safe yet. Every year, I fuss about whether this is a safe place to anchor the boat for the night, or whether we are sailing too close to the shore. I fuss about whether they have enough experience to drive places. I fuss about whether they ought to be breathing that poisonous bottom paint they are chipping. The list goes on and on and probably sounds similar to yours. The big difference is that my husband somehow thinks it is right and normal that I should fuss, and that I should naturally be more cautious than he is. Sometimes, he listens to me. Or decides that I am going to be so sick with worry that whatever it is just isn't worth doing. Sometimes he says the ice is fine, or that he did that when he was young and it will be ok. Fortunately, his judgement is pretty good and nothing too horrible has happened yet. I just keep reminding myself of that. Now that two of my sons are over 18, I am having to do the negotiating with them, also, not just with my husband, and I don't trust their judgement nearly as much. Sigh.

 

Colleen, truly it is normal for you to be worried about your children's safety and the things that so greatly affect all your lives, like the farm. Keep putting your two cents in. Your family may continue to do something other than what you wish, but they will hear you and it might make them be more cautious and on the lookout for whatever is worrying you.

 

It is normal to want to be in control of your life. It is normal to want to have a say in what your children are and are not allowed to do, whether it is inside the house or outside the house. Women have been arguing about this with their husbands forever. It isn't being controlling; it is being a good mother. : )

 

-Nan

[Chris in CA]

Lately I've had to dial way back on the controlling, or at least I've lost my desire for it. I've come to understand that some of the things I thought I had control over - I really don't. I'm trying now to figure out how to find a happy medium - is there such a thing?

I have girls so my dh has pretty much leaves alot of parenting issues to me -when he disagrees, I will voice my opinion (again) and then let it go. I've had to trust that God will protect my girls whatever it may be; big swells when they go surfing , a not so good movie, crappy t.v. etc.

 

this probably doesn't help at all - just know you're not alone

[Tree House Academy]

Over the years, I have also struggled with being a control freak. Here is where I started to cross the line: 1st year of our marriage, dh wanted to leave and go get a beer for the superbowl. I told him he couldn't leave the house because I didn't want him to. He didn't go. (Crazy, I know...first year of marriage ignorance LOL). I also crossed the line with my own issues - I have OCD and the things I fear most are the things I do not have control over -disease, death, etc. It took over my life for a time and is still a struggle every.single.day.

 

As I have gotten older, I have had to come to terms with the fact that I just am not in control of everything. If my dh wants to come home and eat a sandwich rather than spaghetti, then I can't stop him. I can be disappointed, but I have no right to control what, when, or how he eats. With my kids, I do have control over what they eat, where they go, what they do - but I have to be careful and not bear down too hard because I don't want their lives to be totally controlled until they are grown...at which time they will have had no experience in making their own choices and learning from mistakes. I just get to control what things I will allow them to learn from. ;)

[farmwife]

Colleen, I hear you, I really do. :grouphug:

 

Living on a farm is a risk in and of itself. There are times I voice my deep concern about something the children are doing that I feel is too risky, but most of the time I just watch and pray. I think the fact that I keep it to myself and only voice it during extreme cases makes my concerns more valid to my husband.

 

Two things have helped me relax to a certain degree about safety on the farm.

The first one involves my husband's brother. My husband had a younger brother who was born many years after him. A surprise child. After his older siblings were off the farm this boy was the right hand man to his father (my father-in-law). He was driving the tractors, chasing cattle, and running machinery grown men use. He was also a talented athlete and when he was 13 he was in a basketball tournament, the team stayed overnight at a hotel. The kids all went into the pool. My brother-in-law drowned in the pool, no one knows why. He could have easily been killed farming but he wasn't, it was a freak accident.

 

We have neighbors who farm, their son was killed 5 years ago in a drunk driving accident. One day I was sharing with my neighbor how I worry about our young son and all the risks he is involved in on the farm. She said "I used to worry too and I would keep the kids in the house as much as possible, then when my son was 18 he was killed two miles from our home from a drunk driver. You just never know what will happen."

 

Having said that, I don't feel flippant about it either, there are still precautions to use. I think the more you can educate your children about the possible dangers and risks the more apt they are to pay attention.

 

I grew up on a farm, but we used old equipment. None of our Power-take offs had any kind of sheilds like they do now. But I specifically remember my parents telling us stories about how people got their clothes caught in them and were killed or maimed. I feared the PTO with everything in me, I would make extra effort to stay as far away from it as possible when it was running. I knew the risks and I knew to avoid it.

 

But accidents are bound to happen. Our daughter was with her dad in the barn one night and she got too close to a cow and it kicked her and she broke her arm. It was scary but it was also a wake up call.

 

I can't pretend that farming isn't risk free but the ability to work beside your children and teach them while you work is an advantage that most parents never have.

 

I don't have any real answers for you Colleen but I do understand the struggle. :confused: You are not alone.

[Colleen]

If you replace the word "control" with the word "fuss" or the word "worry", maybe you will find that the whole situation sounds more normal and less like something you need to feel guilty over.

 

I don't feel guilty. I do find it helpful to hear other perspectives, though.

 

The big difference is that my husband somehow thinks it is right and normal that I should fuss

 

Yes, that's a big difference.

 

Colleen, truly it is normal for you to be worried about your children's safety and the things that so greatly affect all your lives, like the farm. Keep putting your two cents in....It is normal to want to be in control of your life. It is normal to want to have a say in what your children are and are not allowed to do, whether it is inside the house or outside the house. Women have been arguing about this with their husbands forever. It isn't being controlling; it is being a good mother.

 

I like to think so, too. Maybe, after all, the reason for my post was primarily to hear that reassurance. I know I'm a good mother. I know my concerns and interests are normal. But when one is scoffed at for having those concerns and interests, when those concerns and interests are used an opportunity to "prove" one's controlling nature...it's not easy.

 

Thanks for your post, Nan. Thanks, everyone, for the replies. I appreciate your input.

[Tammyla]

Colleen,

 

I have no idea what you mean.. since I'm not a controlling person by nature:D.

 

Pick your battles and finding a balance works for many couples.

[Liza Q]

1. When my husband and I get into control discussions (when I am accused of being a control freak), we find that we are really talking about trust. He thinks that I do not trust his judgment and reacts - badly. I think that - he is not trusting MY judgment and I react - also badly. I continually remind myself that I *chose* him to be my husband and the father of my children and part of that relationship is trusting his judgment.

 

We have gone through a lot together, especially with our son's cancer and death. Did I make the right treatment decisions? Was he right to go choose this hospital over that hospital? Should we have tried X, or were we right to let him go? Are we ruining our marriage and our children by the way we are handling our lives post-Daniel (he's become a hypochondriac and I keep losing and gaining the same 50 pounds...I am afraid of everything and he thinks nothing matters unless it is cancer!)? Some things we just never bring up because we don't want to get into blaming each other.

 

I bring this up because we have both had to realize that we have no control over most things. So, in many ways we get along better than we used to - we have both been humbled. NOT that I saying you or your husband are being proud.

 

2. The fact that you live at "work", that you work for him more than with him, that your children are involved at more of an adult level than they would be if your husband were a cop like mine - these things make your situation unusual. So I will just pray that God's will be done in both of your lives.

[Nan in Mass]

(((Colleen)))