May I get some feedback on writing teacher's feedback?

[Sunshine State Sue]

Ds13 is taking a writing class through Home2Teach. He is in the beginner class.

 

This is the last assignment in 6 week long class. He had to send in a first copy, edit himself, and send a final draft. Here is his final draft:

Mans’ Best Friend

 

 

There are many animals in this world, but only one that is truly loyal and trustworthy. And that creature is dog. For centuries dogs have been the companion of man. They have been hunting partners, lovable pets, guard dogs and overall, friends. Other animals, such as birds, cats, and fish, have also been pets for mankind. But have they helped catch food for man? Have they always been by their master’s side? The answer is no, they never have. This proves that dogs are superior to the other pets on this planet and truly deserve to be called mans’ best friend.

 

Briefly, here are the directions:

1. Think of a topic.

2. What is purpose of paragraph? Who is audience?

3. Brainstorm. Write down >=6 details about topic. Use vivid verbs, lively adverbs, and descriptive adjectives.

4. Write topic sentence.

5. Use all details for supporting sentences. Vary sentence structure and use descriptive words to make paragraph interesting. Write logically.

6. Write closing sentence.

 

This was the teacher's feedback:

Everything looks great now; you did an excellent job of being your own editor! No more edits needed.

 

What do you think of the teacher's feedback?

 

Thanks so much!

[Ria]

.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Ria
Kitten jumped on keyboard and hit submit before I was done.

[Ria]

While your son has a good start, there is work to be done, IMO. For example, he began the second sentence with "and;" the writing instructor should have corrected that, or at least noted it.

 

BTW, just as an aside, remind your son that people have used birds to hunt for food for centuries. Remember the falconers in the Middle Ages? Again, I would have expected the instructor to point this out.

 

If you have concerns, I'd suggest you email the writing instructor.

 

Ria

[Aubrey]

I think that looks like an awfully easy paycheck. Is that really all of the teacher's input for this entire assignment?

 

I hope the class was free. Otherwise, we should all look into teaching for that school. ;)

 

I am interested to know more about the parameters of the class & instruction. I used to teach writing.

[5wolfcubs]

Hi Sue! I was really hoping that the teacher would pick apart the last assignment. I read my girls' papers before they sent them...I laughed and said "I hope the teacher tells you which commas are the right ones!" But they got similar feedback.

 

I am signing them up again. The structure & requirements were an excellent experience. I'm hoping the feedback increases!

 

Aubrey, maybe you could do a writing class...

[KristenS]

I too would pick on some minor errors, like it should be man's instead of mans' best friend. And I thought of hunting falcons right off. :)

 

It's an engaging paragraph, to be sure. It seems to me to be better suited as the intro for a longer essay, though, where he proves some of the assertions he makes.

[Andie]

I think that looks like an awfully easy paycheck. Is that really all of the teacher's input for this entire assignment?

 

I hope the class was free. Otherwise, we should all look into teaching for that school. ;)

 

I am interested to know more about the parameters of the class & instruction. I used to teach writing.

 

 

The H2T Fundamentals class is for ages 9 and up; it's the first and most basic course. http://www.home2teach.com/schedule.html#Elem1 I think the OP's son rec'd those comments for the final draft. There would have been feedback at each point in the process at which he turned something in.

[Andie]

Hi Sue! I was really hoping that the teacher would pick apart the last assignment. I read my girls' papers before they sent them...I laughed and said "I hope the teacher tells you which commas are the right ones!" But they got similar feedback.

 

I am signing them up again. The structure & requirements were an excellent experience. I'm hoping the feedback increases!

 

Aubrey, maybe you could do a writing class...

 

 

Oh, maybe my information in the last post was incorrect, if you have a 12yo and a 14yo in the same class. Is this Paragraph Writing, then? :confused:

[5wolfcubs]

No...it was Fundamentals 1. They haven't ever had an online class before (and my oldest really struggles with writing), so I started them at the very beginning. They didn't receive corrections for the first draft other then "excellent start."

[Aubrey]

Aubrey, maybe you could do a writing class...

 

Wouldn't that be fun? I finally posted some flyers for editing papers around the seminary, & I got my first client last night.

 

I have a couple of people I've started working w/ in the last couple of mos, & I have to say--it's so refreshing to be doing something in my field again. Esp when I can do it from home w/ kidlets wiggling in my lap. :lol:

[Andie]

No...it was Fundamentals 1. They haven't ever had an online class before (and my oldest really struggles with writing), so I started them at the very beginning. They didn't receive corrections for the first draft other then "excellent start."

 

 

I PM'd you. :001_smile:

[Sunshine State Sue]

I think that looks like an awfully easy paycheck.

:rofl: That's a great way to say it!

 

The H2T Fundamentals class is for ages 9 and up; it's the first and most basic course. http://www.home2teach.com/schedule.html#Elem1 I think the OP's son rec'd those comments for the final draft. There would have been feedback at each point in the process at which he turned something in.

 

Yes, he is in Fundamentals 1, and it is for 9 and up. Still, this was the only feedback he received.

 

I thought that at the very least:

 

• punctuation should have been pointed out

• she should have asked, "Where are the vivid verbs, lively adverbs, and descriptive adjectives?"

 

 

Thank you so much for your feedback. Now, I have a few more items to point out to the teacher's boss. I do realize that since this is the beginners class, maybe that's why the feedback was so positive and ineffective. I have heard so many good things about Home2Teach, I expected better.

[Colleen]

I've considered having my oldest take a class through Home2Teach but am somewhat reluctant thanks to communication issues with the owner. Your post, Sue, adds to my reluctance. Quite honestly, if my student received such abysmal instruction, I'd request a refund.

[TeacherZee]

The content inaccuracies don't bother me as much as the problems with the writing. If this is a writing class the teacher should at least have pointed out that you do not start a sentence with "and" or "but" both of which you son does. That is writing 101:D I would definitely have expected more feedback. How is he supposed to improve with that kind of feedback?

[Reya]

While your son has a good start, there is work to be done, IMO. For example, he began the second sentence with "and;" the writing instructor should have corrected that, or at least noted it.

 

BTW, just as an aside, remind your son that people have used birds to hunt for food for centuries. Remember the falconers in the Middle Ages? Again, I would have expected the instructor to point this out.

 

If you have concerns, I'd suggest you email the writing instructor.

 

Ria

 

Cats, too, :-) And cormorants!

 

It isn't bad, but it seems...facile, honestly. Very "easy." I'd ask more--better details, a better argument overall (dogs are "best"?--not an acceptable subject for a 13-y-o), and a more sophisticated execution. Each sentence is sweeping, over-generalized, and unsubstantiated. The tone is also pretty "iffy" for something that should be pretty formal. (The initial "and" is just fine in some settings but not in others--ditto with that particular rhetorical question.)

 

"Blech" on the teacher.

Edited February 20, 2009 by Reya

[Ria]

Wouldn't that be fun? I finally posted some flyers for editing papers around the seminary, & I got my first client last night.

 

I have a couple of people I've started working w/ in the last couple of mos, & I have to say--it's so refreshing to be doing something in my field again. Esp when I can do it from home w/ kidlets wiggling in my lap. :lol:

 

Good for you, Aubrey. I was a writing instructor for several years (junior/senior high). Enjoy your editing!

 

Ria

[Janice in NJ]

I signed my two younger kids up for writing classes in the fall. Dd - 13 - Paragraph class. Ds - 11 - Narrative Writing. At first, I was thrilled with the whole package. The teacher didn't want me to help the kids with their assignments. Gag and handcuff policy. Woo-Hoo! Finally, I was out of the loop; the kids were going to be getting feedback from the instructor only. This was going to be great. So I said nothing. For weeks. My dd who loves to write was whipping off her assignments in the first or second day of the week; she was sending them off to the teacher for corrections. But they kept coming back with a "Nice job. You're done for the week." My son's assignments came back with lots of suggestions for improving them. Overall, this class seemed good for him. He was learning to proof-read his work and be nit-picky about his MLA formatting.

 

OK. I thought. This has been great for my ds; he is learning to be careful. My dd also seems to be doing great; little to no input means that she must be mastering the material at the level expected. I was concerned about the amount of time that they were spending though. This class was supposed to represent their language arts curriculum for the six weeks. My kids - especially my dd - was sitting in the class for 1 hour and then working for 1 1/2 hour on the assignment. I emailed Eileen, her instructor and the company's owner. She told me that the amount of time spent on the assignments varies per child; not to worry. We went back and forth with me asking how a child is supposed to improve if they don't receive more feedback and if they aren't encouraged to work through more revisions. She said that she would try to provide more feedback on the last two assignments for my dd. She did. Each assignment went through one round of edits. She left comments; my dd quickly made the changes, returned them, and was told, "Good Job. You're done."

 

I thought, "Fine. They're doing well. I'll just put them in a more challenging class for the next six week session."

 

Then the recs came in for the next session. They were both being recommended for the "Report Writing Class." Eileen assured me that my daughter did not have the writing skills to progress to the next Paragraph level class. There was a whole laundry list of things that she needed to work on. I was confused. If she needed to work on these things then why weren't we doing that? Was the other class going to work on these things? I didn't know what to do, so I signed them both up for the Report Writing class. If we need to work on this stuff then we should. Right?

 

My ds did received one assignment back with corrections. He made the corrections and returned it; one round of edits. Everything else came back, "Good job. You're done." My daughter received two assignments back that suggested that she work on her transitions. She revised the first one and returned it once and was told, "Good job with your revisions, (her name). Thanks! 4B is done." Her conclusion paragraph came back with the same suggestion (Assignment 5C); she needed to find a way to transition to her conclusion. She did and returned the assignment. "Great job, (her name)!" She was done.

 

OK, I thought. The gag and handcuffs are working. These kids are doing well and are ready to move on.

 

Then I received the recommendation for session 3 classes:

 

(Younger ds - 11 years old) is making good progress in Report Writing this session. I feel that he would benefit from additional work with these skills, as well as in applying them to longer and more in-depth reports while also working to smooth out and expand his writing. If he would like a break from the class, he could switch back to Narrative for a session; if he is ready to continue in this class, then he can do so as a Report Writing 2 student. Therefore, for Session 3, I'm recommending either Report Writing 2 or Narrative 2 for (name).

 

(Dd - 13) is doing very well in Report Writing this session. She is showing strong writing and a good application of the concepts. I would like to see her work on smoothing out her transitions and working on the overall flow of her writing. Her content is excellent, and each segment of her writing is excellent; I just want to see her focus on strengthening the way she puts it all together! Therefore, for Session 3 for (name), I'm recommending either continuing Report Writing or taking Beginning Creative Writing.

 

We quit. I'm back to teaching writing - teaching. With every draft of every assignment. Every week. Multiple revisions. I hate it. But I'm doing it. And I remind my daughter BEFORE she hands in her first drafts that she needs to pay attention to her transitions. Done. She does it. We didn't need to work on it for another six weeks. (And please understand that I can appreciate the restrictions that a teacher has in an online class. She can't reach through the screen and MAKE my child listen to her. But I can. So I do. Problem solved.) AND the gag and handcuffs just didn't work for me. I am not going to sit here and say nothing. Especially if no one else is. This would just take too long. Some instruction is better than none. I get that, so the class makes sense if the parent has few thoughts about how to teach writing OR if writing never happens. At least with the class, the child is writing every week. But I wanted to CONCENTRATE on writing instruction this year. So I took my twenty bucks a week (classes for two kids) WHICH is a bargain by the way! Really it is! But I took the twenty bucks and am putting it toward things like grocery delivery once in a while - instead of shopping, WHICH I HATE - I am carving out time to teach, edit, revise, etc. writing assignments.

 

So overall, I think that the classes are probably worth it. Ten bucks a week for an hour of "class time" instruction followed up by some teacher accountability. It's probably worth it - as my dh says, "What did you expect for ten bucks a week?" (Followed up with his friendly grin.)

 

But I wanted to focus on writing this year. So we are. Lots of face time. Lots of revisions. Lots of work! :001_smile:

 

Last week my dd worked on personification. We read some poetry and some picture books and she went to work. I just don't see how a writer is supposed to grow unless she has input; tons and tons and tons of input. So we read and chatted and read and discussed some more. Then she trotted off to the basement to write. Her assignment was to convey a plot of a quick event while playing around with personification. This was her first draft:

 

Tree Rats

 

 

Most people think of squirrels as entirely innocent, adorable creatures that have a hard skull protecting the emptiness within. To this day, I have never come upon such a creature. In fact, I have found that these individuals have it all wrong. Actually, squirrels are rather devious, criminal creatures that indeed do have a great deal of intelligence. I have quite a few examples of their criminal escapades, only one of which, I will relate to you: It had been a frigid January day, and I was eating my lunch at the kitchen table. When I looked out the window, I caught a glimpse of one of these little miscreants darting behind one of our shrubs. The minute villain was eyeing our garbage cans. I watched as the diminutive sneak-thief crept up to one of these waste barrels and scaled the wall of this massive container. His eye gleaming like that of a bandit who has just come upon a loaded safe, he set to work. Gnawing at a certain area of the lid of our garbage can with the precision of a safe-cracker, the robber worked his way toward his goal. Finally, the fiend had finished chewing a sizeable hole in the lid of our trashcan. Chattering with delight, the barbaric crook dropped into the container of refuse. I opened the window a bit and heard joyous sounds emanating from the receptacle. After two minutes or so, the scoundrel emerged, laden with treasures: an apple core, a potato peeling, and an old teabag. A loud banging noise was suddenly heard. I found that it was my mother whacking on the window in the room below me. She too had noticed the bushy-tailed racketeer, and she was determined to shoo him away. The raider looked up from his spoils and chattered at my mother, imitating her motions and expressions in a mocking way. The evildoer gathered up his newfound riches, and clambered down the trashcan. The delinquent then took a few bites out of the apple core, nibbled on the potato peeling, and licked the teabag. Shredding the apple core and potato peeling, the rascal scattered the greater portion of his fortune all over our driveway to cover up his trail and, still clutching the teabag, darted away from the garbage cans, and under our shed. It was then that my mother finally left the house to buy metal garbage cans.

 

Decent creative effort IMO, but with room to grow as a writer. (My favorite was her decreasing triple - took a few bites, nibble, licked. Yea! She remembers to carry things over from past discussions! :001_smile:) We plod forward. With me teaching a class that I'd rather not teach. But I don't seem to have a choice. She's also reading and HEAVILY annotating Oliver Twist. She's filling the margins of nearly every page. So am I. It is going to take forever to get through the whole book, but I suspect that it will be worth the effort; she catches so much. Great fun! :001_smile:

 

I do hope that you find a process that works for your family! I'm sure that the classes that we took are working well for many families. But the gag and handcuff restriction just didn't work for me. For us there was just no $10/per-week silver bullet for writing.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[ThelmaLou]

I'm not as concerned with the use of "and" and "but". According to Joseph M. Williams (Style: Ten Lessons in Clarity and Grace), the and/but sentence opener rule is "invented folklore." He goes on to cite examples from modern English usage guides, and he concludes by stating, "Some inexperienced writers do begin too many sentences with and, but that is an error not in grammar but of style."

 

Based on the teacher's instructions, the audience is unclear. Vivid verbs are missing completely. In fact, I only see one verb that is not either a helping verb or a state of being verb. Lively adverbs and descriptive adjectives are weak, too. Sentence structure should vary more, since most of his sentence openers are in the subject/verb format.

 

This teacher got off way too easy. I would want a refund if she's not giving constructive feedback.

[Michelle in MO]

My older two daughters did three progymnasmata tutorials with Cindy Marsch of Writing Assessment Services last year. This may be comparing apples to oranges, as the assignment was completely different from the one your child completed. However, I copied and pasted her original essay which we submitted to Cindy Marsch; her comments are in red print; she was 13 years old when she submitted this essay. This may be useful for the sake of comparison:

 

The Mystery of King Arthur

 

First Draft:

(Cindy Marsch’s comments are in red)

 

Over time, the mystery surrounding King Arthur has captivated historians around the globe. However, this has led to question the existence of the famous Britain. See above. Most believe that a historical figure like Arthur was real, and that the majority of the events in legend have gone from fact to fiction over time.

 

According to legend, King Arthur became the ruler of Britain after pulling his sword, Excalibur, from a stone. Shortly after claiming the throne, he married Guinevere, against the advice of Merlin, the wise wizard. His reign brought a time of peace, but trouble came near the end of his reign when Guinevere committed adultery. Arthur’s nephew, Mordred, seized the throne and started a civil war. Any connection in time or circumstance between these two events? In the climatic final battle, Arthur was wounded, and according to the myth, he was taken away to Avalon to heal, and one day he will return as the “once and future king.”

 

There is credible evidence to suggest that sometime in the 5th century A.D., a British general or lord led the Britons to victory over the Anglo-Saxon tribes. This individual may have been either a king or a duke, and may have been known as Ambrosius Aurelianus, or possibly as Artorius, but ? he was most likely the source for the stories that we know today about King Arthur.

 

The probability of the existence of Arthur, or a leader whose qualities were like our present-day concept of King Arthur, is quite high. Yes Of course, there’s almost no question that some of his supposed deeds have turned into the myths and legends that exist today. I think if Charlemagne was real, and King Alfred, Arthur seems just one of their kind.

 

There is some evidence to support the existence of Arthur. When the Romans left Britain in the early 5th century, eastern Britain was invaded by Anglo-Saxon tribes. Their armies plundered and pillaged. Combine these sentences. A 6th century writer named Gildas and a 9th century monk named Nennius both mention a leader who halted the invaders. He is referred to as Ambrosius Aurelianus by Gildas, and Artorius (Latin for “Arthur”) by Nennius. However, he is not described as a king, but as a general. In the Ecclesiastical History of the English Nation, Book One, chapter XVI, Bede, the author, stated, states “They Put the reference in brackets, like this: “[The Britons] had… had at that time for their leader, Ambrosius Aurelius, a modest man, who alone, by chance, of the Roman nation had survived the storm, in which his parents, who were of the royal race, had perished. I feel I want more information here—what storm? Where had they come from? Under him the Britons revived, and offering battle to the victors, by the help of God, came off victorious.” Not sure of the reference to “victors” here. According to http://www.fordham.edu, Bede is a reliable source, trusted by many modern historians. Yes. The name of Arthur is also noted in The Annales Cambriae 447-954 (The Annals of Wales); these state: Comma “The battle of Camlann, in which Arthur and Medraut fell: and there was plague in Britain and Ireland.” Set it up so this quote is grammatical. You can use bits of it in your own sentence.

 

It is quite possible that a historical figure existed whose deeds became known, according to myth and legend, as the deeds of King Arthur. Unfortunately, some of the evidence has been lost or disproved. For example: comma sometime in the late 1100’s, the monks of Glastonbury supposedly discovered the graves of Arthur and his queen. However, when King Henry VIII ordered the closure of the Abbey in the 1500’s, the remains of King Arthur and Queen Guinevere were lost; See above. their gravestones survived until 1720, when they vanished mysteriously. We can probably never prove or disprove this, because there is simply no evidence that exists today.

 

Most historians tend to agree that Arthur existed, but that ancient biographers simply confused facts with fiction. See above. Some, however, believe that he didn’t exist, and was merely a figment of imagination. The opinions on the issue are not entirely consistent. Good.

 

In conclusion, Arthur was, most likely, a heroic king or duke who reigned a long time ago and helped to defeat invading Anglo-Saxon tribes. It is unlikely that he pulled Excalibur, his famous sword, from a slab of stone. Why? :) Often a persistent idea like this is based in some kind of long-term folk belief, and the existence of that belief can help to prove the unlikelihood of the thing really happening. It is also not possible that he is still alive, sleeping under a hill, because today, in a world often governed by science and logic, such things are unreasonable. You’re losing hold of the “facts” here. It is even more unreasonable, however, to automatically discard the works of ancient historians, because in reality, they were present during the events that they recorded, and we were not. More realistically, they were CLOSER to the events, though not likely on the scene. It’s funny how history sometimes becomes fuzzier and sometimes clearer over time.

 

Word Count: 726

 

Again, as I mentioned, these are two completely different assignments. It may be that the instructor was trying not to over-correct on your dc's first attempt. However, I personally like more feedback; I enjoyed Cindy Marsch's tutorials with my girls; her grammar was impeccable, her comments were kind, and she helped my girls to think logically throughout the course of their papers.

[unsinkable]

 

I do hope that you find a process that works for your family! I'm sure that the classes that we took are working well for many families. But the gag and handcuff restriction just didn't work for me. For us there was just no $10/per-week silver bullet for writing.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

 

Janice,

 

I really admire you! I think it is great that you can adjust & change when things aren't going smoothly. It is a lesson I need to learn.

 

And I've always loved your signature.

[Ellie]

Well, it's just a paragraph, and it really isn't bad for a beginner's class; I would expect longer assignments, though, for a 13yo. This kind of instruction, BTW, is why I prefer the way Writing Strands or Understanding Writing teaches; I think focussing on writing paragraphs instead of on how to write is short-sighted...JMHO, of course. :-)

 

The teacher did miss some basic corrections:

 

 

Mans’ [Man's] Best Friend

 

 

There are many animals in this world, but only one that is truly loyal and trustworthy. And that creature is dog. [it does not bother me that the sentence begins with "and."] For centuries[,] dogs have been the companion of man [because surely there has been more than one "companion"]. They have been hunting partners, lovable pets, guard dogs and[,] overall, friends. Other animals, such as birds, cats, and fish, have also been pets for mankind. But have they helped catch food for man? Have they always been by their master’s side? The answer is no, they never have. This proves [well, no, it doesn't prove anything, actually] that dogs are superior to the other pets on this planet and truly deserve to be called mans’ [man's] best friend.

[Elm in NJ]

Same problems with Home2teach. Ds was 12 when we started in Fundamentals 1. He moved quickly through that and did Fundamentals 2. Feedback was excellent as always- he did a great job, usually no edits or corrections. Got to Narrative Class, same great job, no edits as usual. Recommendation: Do Narrative Writing again, which would have been fine with me, if I had known excatly what problems he had in the class. It was always great job, usually very few corrections and I was a bit frustrated. High school was looming and I was having a hard time teaching writing, and his online teacher was not giving him what I thought he needed to move from a 1 paragraph piece of writing to something a bit more.

 

So we dropped it also and I signed him up for a semester class with Write at Home. It is going much better since we are also doing IEW SWI B at home. This summer, I am hoping he will be a summer writing Progym class with Angus Deo or a Bravewriter Intermediate class. Then we will be doing Veritas Press Composition 1 in the fall. In just a few months, his writing has grown so much and I don't wake up as often in a cold sweat anymore thinking my son will always only be writing 1 paragraph essays.

[Tammyla]

:iagree: with the other posts. Thanks for sharing with us.

[Aubrey]

I've been thinking about this every since OP posted. A lot of y'all are pointing out errors the writing teacher missed, but...I don't think the writing teacher *read* the paragraph. I'm willing to bet that there are too many students assigned to one person, & that the teachers are being trained to "skim"--i.e., give pat, positive responses to "encourage" students, resulting in happy parents & more prolific (perhaps) writing that will eventually mature.

 

I also would bet that the company (not nec the teachers) is relying on the prevailing sense of intimidation that parents feel toward writing & the teaching of writing to accomplish what looks to me like basically a scam.

 

That's harsh. I hope I'm wrong. I hate to eat my words, but still, I hope it's at least not that intentional. I think I'll go have another cup of coffee & try to get friendly before the neighbors show up in...oops! gotta go!

[Deidre in GA]

my son did three or four courses with H2T around 13/14. one of the things i learned watching how Eileen works with the students is when to back off. when i worked with my son and writing, i tended to want to correct everything. Eileen assesses where the student is and chooses her battles. no, everything i saw was not corrected but i could see she had her own scope and sequence standards and held my son's feet to the fire about them. my son's writing grew tremendously.

 

you say this was a 6 week course. none of us here know what your child's writing was like beforehand. maybe the feedback represents his writing having come a long way and the teacher feeling he'd benefit more from a positive response for his efforts rather than more edits.

 

my son is in 9th grade PS now. they barely correct anything and the written work i have seen would have hardly made sloppy copy status when he schooled at home. yet he's making excellent grades. sigh. i'm trying to figure out how to convince him to do another H2Teach course over the summer break.

[Janice in NJ]

Aubrey,

 

Oh no! It is definitely not a scam. Definitely not! :001_smile:

The class is reasonably priced. The student spends time in the class in a one-hour per week class - teacher and students typing on a chat board. I received copies of the chat via email so I could see where their strengths and weaknesses were. The teacher's responded to my kids' work usually the same day.

 

I guess for us the problem was the "non-intervention" policy; she really wanted ALL of the work to be the child's own - no help at all from the parents. I am HAPPY to run on tracks that are nailed down by other teachers, but if I want to get involved, I'm going to! Let's face it, there is only so much that can be accomplished via screens and typing. Sometimes a younger kid just needs a voice and/or a face in order for them to "get it." AND it takes far less time.

 

In the end, I guess the Home 2 Teach instructors are more comfortable with their time table than I am. If I had any criticism, it might be that they should consider ways to keep the parents more solidly in the loop, not push them out of it. But what do I know! Really. I have NO intention of ever trying to run a company like this. I really don't care what they do. Just sharing that it wasn't the fix that I was looking for. :001_smile:

 

But NO - I do not want to even hint that there's a scam going on!! As I said, I think that I received about as much as you could expect for the price that I paid. Teaching writing is an incredibly time-intensive process; at least it has been for us. (And NO! I am NOT good at it. I'm just doing it. A LOT!) Teaching it through a screen by typing comments onto a child's paper is even MORE time consuming. You can't address everything. You have to gage where the child is at WITHOUT seeing them work - or without seeing his other work. That must be tough. I'm with my kids every day. I have a decent understanding of what they can produce and what they can not.

 

Developing a scope and sequence that I'm comfortable with has NOT been fun; I wish that I had more experience in this area. But I've worked with my kids long enough AND have seen other master teachers work with my kids face-to-face enough to have an idea about what we should be doing. NOW I'm trying to do it.

 

But let's just say that you couldn't pay me ten bucks a week to try to teach it someone else's kid - through a screen. ;) No Way!

 

I think that the service is a good service unless folks expect it to do something that it cannot. It is NOT going to take a non-writer and turn them into Dickens in six weeks via an online chat session and a couple of emails. The curriculum is theirs. The plan is theirs. They do it their way. Just because I don't understand their methods doesn't mean that they do work. There are LOTS of things in life that I don't understand until later - when I gain more experience. This might just be one of those things! I've heard MANY voices from folks whose kids have done very well with the classes! It just didn't work for us. So it's a good plan, NOT a scam. And I'm SURE that their plan is DEFINITELY better than no plan at all! :001_smile:

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

Edited February 20, 2009 by Janice in NJ

[Sunshine State Sue]

Folks, a huge thank you! :hurray: I have learned so much:

 

• y'all caught so much more than I ever would have, therefore, it's valuable
  to have someone else evaluating ds's work
  
• at the same time (as Janice's experience demonstrates), it's important for me to be involved as well
  
• we have been using Write Shop for the past 1.5 years. It has made me appreciate the program more because with it, he HAS to vary his sentence structure and be more descriptive. If he isn't, the checklist tells him, then I tell him. So, it has also given me the incentive to persevere. We have 1.5 years to go.
  

 

 

I've already paid for the next class, so we will try it again. The owner contacted me and said the next teacher would require more "length and depth" from ds. :rolleyes: I will see how it goes and if I am not satisfied, I will either try the Write Shop tutors ($55/mo for 6 months minimum), contract Aubrey, or think of something else.

 

I have seen good teachers build ineffective empires.

[JFSinIL]

I had a discussion with my 10th grade dd's Honors English teacher at the local high school earlier this year - she was giving dd high grades on papers and NOT noting the sentence fragments, repeated verbs, etc. Teacher said that for the first couple assignments they (she and the other writing-intensive history teacher) did NOT pick papers apart with much criticism (and she said she DID notice my dd's flaws as a writer!) as they did not want to discourage the kids from the get-go. She said that her expectations and criticisms of the student's writings would gradually ramp up as the year progressed, but that going after EVERY flaw in a paper from the start usually made students give up. She preferred to work on common flaws (such as sentence fragments, etc.) in class, and once they had been discussed in class the kids would be held accountable for editing them out of their work before turning in...otherwise the red ink would flow. ;)

 

I wonder if something similar might be happening in your kidlet's class.

[KristenS]

I would bet that has something to do with the attitude of the teacher, as well as the student's respect for the teacher ... if you know the teacher knows what they're talking about, you're more willing to take their criticism. If you feel they're just picking on you, it backfires. There has to be that respect first.

 

I *never* received constructive feedback on a piece of writing (in spite of honors PS and college classes) until a couple years ago, when I swapped fiction drafts with an online friend ... she shredded that novel into a pile of red ink like you've never seen. And it REALLY improved the work. But it was the respect we had for each other and each other's works that allowed it to be constructive, rather than destroying my confidence. :) Well, that, and I was able to see HOW her suggestions were improvements ... maybe it means not just picking, but explaining the comments and why it's better too. Something to think about.

[Guest schoolrown]

We've used Home2teach for 4 years, and have experience with just about every class offered. Also have had at least 5 different teachers. Each is different, but all have been responsive to my emails.

I have an unmotivated 8th grader who receives edits which have helped him greatly. The teachers seem to understand that with him you have to walk a fine line between encouraging to get improvement and beating a dead horse. At some level, you have to let the small things go in order to help him get the bigger, more important points. I contracted out English for a reason, and this fine line seems to work when it is not mom doing the teaching.

My 10th grader is in the Honors program with H2T and is thriving. The level of work, analysis, edits, time with teacher are incredible. We pay about $400 for classes which begin in August and go through mid-May. Turn around time for edits is a few hours and Eileen is very responsive to his questions. I'm confident that this program has helped him tremendously.

For the six week class, the cost is about $12/week. We actually have felt guilty at how little we are paying for the one on one teacher time. So, for us, this has been only a positive addition to our schooling.

Edited March 2, 2009 by schoolrown

[teacalm]

H2T has been a valuable help to me when it comes to teaching writing with kids. I do, however, sit down with the kids and read up on their lessons to make sure they understand it. When it comes time for them to type up their lessons, I leave them alone. When they receive feedback, I sat down with them to go over what is being asked of them to change. Over all, especially with my dd8, I've seen a big improvement. After a while, the kids started going through their work before submitting. They read it aloud and asks me to step away so they can do it themselves. We had teachers Brianna, Sirene, and Elizabeth. Teacher Sirene was really helpful in pointing out to dd8 where she went wrong or what needed to be edited. If the remark was something vague or short, I had my kids emailed their teacher to ask them to explain further or what do they mean by the remarks. All 3 kids started with Fundamentals 1.

 

Dd9 took the writing portion of the 4th graders CA STAR test and she said that she just followed what she learned in the H2T program. I haven't received the results yet so I can't for sure know how she did. I asked her if it was particularly hard and dd9 said that she had to think how to organize her piece and going through H2T Fund. 1,2 and NW gave her the base to start.

 

 

 

All in all, I'm very happy with the services offered.

[Peela]

My dd did Paragraph classes 1 and 2 with Eileen. She received heaps and heaps of feedback. At first it was overwhelming to her but then she got the knack of what was expected. She received the feedback often within minutes, at the most hours of sending off the assignment. She still didnt finish any asssignment within a mere couple of days. She is a reasonable writer. It really stretched her. I loved that I didn't have to be involved.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I'm concerned now too....a little. But I have some other thoughts.

 

Students in the fundamentals class are not at the level of a 13 yr old and shouldn't be held to those standards. I picked Home2Teach because they evaluated my son's writing and placed him accordingly. I was pretty sure that was going to be Fundamentals 1. I do not WANT my child judged as an average 14yr old or taught at the level of an average 14yo. He is not capable of that level of work yet.

 

So it would be unfair to judge the teaching based on "this is what my 13yo produced." If one class teaches 13yos on a 13yr old level and the other teaches those on a 4th grade level, one would expect that the content is considerably different.

 

This isn't to say there isn't a concern. I expect the final paper of ANY child working at their level to be the best you'd find at that level. At the 4th grade level, especially when I'm not supposed to edit with my child, I expect the paper not to have any 4th grade level errors or the student to be called on them. I'm concerned that didn't happen in this case. I'm sure there were other things the teacher was working on with the class but errors should be corrected so other bad habits don't start. Also, I worry what it says to a student when work isn't corrected, but even more so when they get only good feedback on a paper with basic errors.

 

Sue, may I ask, is your son recommended for the next level or to do Fundamentals 1 again?

 

Home2Teach ASKS for parental feedback. I would give it to them.

 

ETA: I am glad to hear such good experiences on the second page of this thread. My son is very mixed in his level. His writing is fun and interesting. He has a definite style and it shows brightly through his work. However, he is missing some fundamental skills of writing. My hope is that Home2Teach can even him up a bit and then help him soar.

Edited July 25, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Sunshine State Sue]

Sue, may I ask, is your son recommended for the next level or to do Fundamentals 1 again?

I started this thread after he completed Fund 1. Yes, he was recommended (and completed) Fund 2. Although Eileen stated he would get more feedback, I did not notice any difference in Fund 2. He was next allowed to take Descriptive or Narrative. He choose Descriptive. It starts next month.

Home2Teach ASKS for parental feedback. I would give it to them.

 

I have given feedback. My hope is that he will get more feedback as he progresses through the classes. We'll see.

[kalanamak]

D

What do you think of the teacher's feedback?

 

Thanks so much!

 

It seems rather easy for her, but....

Is it possible the teacher believes in just encouragement for the beginners. I remember Andrew Peduwa's lecture encouraging encouragement, especially for the youngers. (Or maybe I dreamed that part.) Maybe, for the class at hand, your boy did as well or better than she expected, and she was happy for that and just wanted to encourage. Just a thought.

[Wildiris]

I think that looks like an awfully easy paycheck. Is that really all of the teacher's input for this entire assignment?

 

I hope the class was free. Otherwise, we should all look into teaching for that school. ;)

 

I am interested to know more about the parameters of the class & instruction. I used to teach writing.

 

I agree with Aubrey.

 

If you are paying money for someone to evaluate your child's writing and these are the guidelines, then (in my opinion) the evaluator did a poor job helping your child realize the below set of guidelines.

[Aubrey]

It seems rather easy for her, but....

Is it possible the teacher believes in just encouragement for the beginners. I remember Andrew Peduwa's lecture encouraging encouragement, especially for the youngers. (Or maybe I dreamed that part.) Maybe, for the class at hand, your boy did as well or better than she expected, and she was happy for that and just wanted to encourage. Just a thought.

 

I believe in focusing on encouragement, & that's not what this teacher has done. This teacher has left the student w/ no idea what he did well or poorly.

 

 

Mans’ Best Friend

 

 

There are many animals in this world, but only one that is truly loyal and trustworthy. And that creature is dog. For centuries dogs have been the companion of man. They have been hunting partners, lovable pets, guard dogs and overall, friends. Other animals, such as birds, cats, and fish, have also been pets for mankind. But have they helped catch food for man? Have they always been by their master’s side? The answer is no, they never have. This proves that dogs are superior to the other pets on this planet and truly deserve to be called mans’ best friend.

 

Encouragement: Your paragraph is very well organized! I like the way you bring other animals that can be pets in to compare to the dog & bring out his strengths. I also think you've done a good job brainstorming ways that a dog can be a friend to a man.

 

Question: Is there anything you'd change about the paragraph if you could? Explain.

 

Suggestion: You could draw the reader in more if you used more concrete details &/or examples. It would be especially interesting if you gave examples from your life. The second sentence is a fragment, but you could fix it by combining the first 2.

 

There is more that could be said, but I think it's wise to find 1-3 things you like about a pc of writing, find out how the student feels about it, & then make 1-3 suggestions for improvement. More than 3 suggestions will overwhelm most students & make them want to give up.

 

When you start w/ some encouragement--CONCRETE encouragement (otherwise how can we teach them to use concrete details?)--they feel like they can fly, & the improvements that need to be made may bring them down to earth, but not to the point of hopelessness.

[Sunshine State Sue]

When you start w/ some encouragement--CONCRETE encouragement (otherwise how can we teach them to use concrete details?)--they feel like they can fly, & the improvements that need to be made may bring them down to earth, but not to the point of hopelessness.

Aubrey,

I plan to finish Write Shop and stick with H2T this year. Next year, If we are still homeschooling (9th grade), I may be pestering you for tutoring. I like your philosophy. ;)

[Pamela H in Texas]

aubrey,

 

are you doing writing classes anytime soon?

[Pink Fairy]

If you are, I'm in. Seriously.

[angela in ohio]

I think that looks like an awfully easy paycheck. Is that really all of the teacher's input for this entire assignment?

 

I hope the class was free.

 

My thoughts exactly. :D

[Aubrey]

Anybody who seriously wants writing classes, lol, email or pm me w/ relevant info: grade, age, etc.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I would say that the opposite is true. In 9th grade I went to a private prep school. The hardest teacher in the school was the Jr. Government / Econ teacher, Mr. Aubishon. He was loved, he was revered, he never gave A's. He taught one hour of 9th grade world history and it was rumored that he hand picked his class. He picked apart our history papers like I had never seen. I put twice as much effort into that class as any other. He told us our writing was drivel and that we had better step it up - so we did. People will work up to your expectations, even the low ones.

 

:iagree: b/c that's my personality. I had a hs teacher that expected more, so I gave it! On the other hand, I know a couple of my dc would just give up in the same situation. I see the point, but after 6 weeks, I would hope for more.

 

In this situation , I imagine a combo is true. Busy teacher...short remarks. Low standards, perhaps? Teaching general errors to entire class probably true, also.

 

Honestly, for $10/week I wouldn't expect much :) but I would expect a bit more simply b/c it is named a writing course.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I believe in focusing on encouragement, & that's not what this teacher has done. This teacher has left the student w/ no idea what he did well or poorly.

 

 

 

Encouragement: Your paragraph is very well organized! I like the way you bring other animals that can be pets in to compare to the dog & bring out his strengths. I also think you've done a good job brainstorming ways that a dog can be a friend to a man.

 

Question: Is there anything you'd change about the paragraph if you could? Explain.

 

Suggestion: You could draw the reader in more if you used more concrete details &/or examples. It would be especially interesting if you gave examples from your life. The second sentence is a fragment, but you could fix it by combining the first 2.

 

There is more that could be said, but I think it's wise to find 1-3 things you like about a pc of writing, find out how the student feels about it, & then make 1-3 suggestions for improvement. More than 3 suggestions will overwhelm most students & make them want to give up.

 

When you start w/ some encouragement--CONCRETE encouragement (otherwise how can we teach them to use concrete details?)--they feel like they can fly, & the improvements that need to be made may bring them down to earth, but not to the point of hopelessness.

 

Exactly how I edit here. I choose 3 things that need work, especially repeated errors.

The next time I give an assignment, I remind them of those things so they are cognitive and continue to work on that area. Then I find 3 more things.

If there is something grammatical (usually not too many --- go Rod & Staff!) I will assign a page of practice from a primer or other grammar source.

 

No examples is not an evaluation. I'd hope for more. I wish I could earn some money that way...easy!