Did Judas go to heaven? CC

[Pretty in Pink]

Dh and I were discussing this a few nights ago. Do you think Judas did (or will, depending upon your persuasion) go to heaven? I know Catholics will say no because he committed suicide (feel free to correct me if I am wrong:001_smile:). If you are a Protestant please share your thoughts.

[Moxie]

I don't know about Judas (Dante has him in Hell, I believe) but Catholics DO NOT believe that those who commit suicide go to hell.

[ChristusG]

If Judas was "saved" then he will go to Heaven. I believe that you cannot lose your salvation. Once saved, always saved. Suicide is a sin, just like any other sin....but I dont believe that it would make him "un-saved."

[*********]

In Matthew 27, it says that Judas tried to return the 30 silver coins to the chief priests.

 

Matthew 27, 3-4

When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. "I have sinned,"he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood."

 

The passages in bold indicate to me that Judas was aware that he had sinned, and was sorry for it. However, they do not tell us that he repented for his sin. In fact, in verse 5 it tells us that Judas hanged himself. To me, this would indicate that Judas was so distraught over the situation, he could not handle it. If he had, in fact, repented of his sin and received forgiveness from the Lord, his burden would not have been so heavy that he felt the need to end his life. To me, it has nothing to do with the 'sin' of suicide. It has to do with why he commited suicide.

 

Based on this, It is my opinion that Judas is in hell. Being aware that you sin, or even being sorry for it, is not sufficient. We must also confess and repent. The bible says that we must 'perservere to the end', which it does not appear that Judas did.

 

Of course, just my opinion. ;)

[Donna T.]

In Matthew 27, it says that Judas tried to return the 30 silver coins to the chief priests.

 

Matthew 27, 3-4

When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. "I have sinned,"he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood."

 

The passages in bold indicate to me that Judas was aware that he had sinned, and was sorry for it. However, they do not tell us that he repented for his sin. In fact, in verse 5 it tells us that Judas hanged himself. To me, this would indicate that Judas was so distraught over the situation, he could not handle it. If he had, in fact, repented of his sin and received forgiveness from the Lord, his burden would not have been so heavy that he felt the need to end his life. To me, it has nothing to do with the 'sin' of suicide. It has to do with why he commited suicide.

 

Based on this, It is my opinion that Judas is in hell. Being aware that you sin, or even being sorry for it, is not sufficient. We must also confess and repent. The bible says that we must 'perservere to the end', which it does not appear that Judas did.

 

Of course, just my opinion. ;)

 

 

I agree.

[JudoMom]

No, I don't think so.

 

Acts 1:24-25: "Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which one of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs."

 

and

 

Matthew 26:24: "The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

 

If Judas is in heaven, then that last statement in bold doesn't make sense, because being in heaven worshipping the Lord for eternity is the best thing that can happen to us.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with suicide, I think it has to do with the state of his relationship with the Lord at his time of death. I think he felt remorse, but I don't think he trusted in Jesus as his Lord and Savior, nor do I think he repented and asked for forgiveness, which is what is required of sinners.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Well, totally leaving out what he did, if he died before Christ, no, he's not in Heaven, nor is he going there. That is not the hope set before people who died before Christ. Those people will be involved in the resurrection and given an opportunity of life.

 

Second, the Bible is clear that one is not always saved even if they were. It's similar to if I gave you a gift. You must take it for it to be yours. If you give it back to me, you no longer have it. The scriptures (especially Paul's writings) are very clear that one must continue loving God and that means doing what God says (1 John 5:3). The point isn't to argue that doctrine, but just saying that from all the information in the scriptures, it would point to him not being saved because he "gave the gift back" in essence.

 

Now, about Judas' behavior....there are sins that require death without the opportunity for the resurrection Jesus holds out to those with the Heavenly hope and the rest of us. Judas betrayed Jesus, but especially God, to the highest degree possible! Everlasting death is the only appropriate situation for that extreme of a sin.

Edited January 16, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Karen FL]

Well, totally leaving out what he did, if he died before Christ, no, he's not in Heaven, nor is he going there. That is not the hope set before people who died before Christ. Those people will be involved in the resurrection and given an opportunity of life.

 

quote]

 

If people who died before Christ are not in heaven, how do you explain Moses and Elijah tallking to Jesus at the time of the tranfiguration in Matthew 17? They both died before Christ yet they were there in Matthew 17 talking to Jesus.

 

As far as the OP question, it is one I have wondered about Judas and King Saul.

 

I heard one pastor say that Judas was probably sorry that he got caught but probably not repentent. I always believe though that we never ever know if people who have done horrendus things are in heaven or not. You just never know if people come to the Lord moments before they die.

 

~Karen~

[mommaduck]

It's speculative and we'll know when we get there ;)

[LN in WI]

The Catholic church does not teach that people who commit suicide automatically go to Hell. The Church does teach that suicide is a serious sin.

 

As far as Hell goes, the Church teaches that we cannot know for sure that a particular individual is in Hell. That judgement is reserved to God. The Church, while recognizing the existence of Hell, holds out the hope of salvation for, and prays for the salvation of each individual.

 

Thus, as someone else commented, we will only know where Judas is once we ourselves are dead.

 

HTH

Ellen

[Anne Rittenhouse]

Have you read the Judas gospel?

[katemary63]

I'm no Bible scholar, but I do not believe that Judas was saved. I believe that he was a tare and not a wheat, an imposter. He may have known the truth, but he did not recieve Christ as his Lord. Afterward, he may have thought, "What have I done?" because he knew the truth. But there's no evidence that that thought caused him to turn to his Lord for forgiveness.

[Tami]

I don't know about Judas, but here is a theme I see from the New Testament: if, and only if, we hold fast and abide TO THE END, it is the proof that we are really saved."

 

Here are some sample Scriptures:

 

Hebrews 3:6 (New American Standard Bible)

 

6but Christ was faithful as (A)a Son over His house--(B)whose house we are, ©if we hold fast our (D)confidence and the boast of our (E)hope firm until the end.

 

 

Hebrews 3:14 (New American Standard Bible)

 

14For we have become partakers of Christ, (A)if we hold fast the beginning of our (B)assurance firm until the end,

 

 

2 John 1:9 (New American Standard Bible)

 

9Anyone who goes too far and (A)does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son

 

 

1 John 2:19 (New American Standard Bible)

 

19(A)They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, (B)so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

[Daisy]

My inclination is to to say no. Scripture says

 

Luke 22:3 Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve. (and again in John 13:27)

 

No man or women who is a "child of God" could have Satan enter them.

 

Based on this verse and the other verses shared, I'm assuming Judas is not in heaven. But agree we won't know until we get there.

[Cornerstone Classical]

I don't know about Judas, but here is a theme I see from the New Testament: if, and only if, we hold fast and abide TO THE END, it is the proof that we are really saved."

 

Here are some sample Scriptures:

 

Hebrews 3:6 (New American Standard Bible)

 

6but Christ was faithful as (A)a Son over His house--(B)whose house we are, ©if we hold fast our (D)confidence and the boast of our (E)hope firm until the end.

 

 

Hebrews 3:14 (New American Standard Bible)

 

 

 

 

14For we have become partakers of Christ, (A)if we hold fast the beginning of our (B)assurance firm until the end,

 

 

2 John 1:9 (New American Standard Bible)

 

9Anyone who goes too far and (A)does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son

 

 

1 John 2:19 (New American Standard Bible)

 

19(A)They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, (B)so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

 

:iagree: As always!

[Pretty in Pink]

I don't know about Judas (Dante has him in Hell, I believe) but Catholics DO NOT believe that those who commit suicide go to hell.

 

The Catholic church does not teach that people who commit suicide automatically go to Hell. The Church does teach that suicide is a serious sin.

 

Thank you for this. I must have been mistaken in this regard.

 

Second, the Bible is clear that one is not always saved even if they were. It's similar to if I gave you a gift. You must take it for it to be yours. If you give it back to me, you no longer have it. The scriptures (especially Paul's writings) are very clear that one must continue loving God and that means doing what God says (1 John 5:3). The point isn't to argue that doctrine, but just saying that from all the information in the scriptures, it would point to him not being saved because he "gave the gift back" in essence.

 

I see what you are saying though, to be fair, people do disagree as to the Bible's transparency on this subject. I believe it was Augustine who first introduced the concept of eternal security which was later expounded upon, perhaps most notably, by Calvin. I believe that the modern-Protestant movement has by and large greatly romanticized the doctrine but I'm not sure I disagree with it.

 

Interesting thoughts. I can't wait to share all of your thoughts with my dh.

[Carol in Cal.]

And I'm OK with that.

[Pamela H in Texas]

If people who died before Christ are not in heaven, how do you explain Moses and Elijah tallking to Jesus at the time of the tranfiguration in Matthew 17? They both died before Christ yet they were there in Matthew 17 talking to Jesus.

 

The transfiguration was a vision according to Jesus. Peter says it was prophetic.

 

More: Moses and Elijah were seen with Jesus, yes, but they both had been dead a long time, were "asleep" awaiting resurrection (Ecc 9:5,10). Moses and Elijah lived before the heavenly hope opened up to humans. They will be part of the earthly “resurrection of .*.*. the righteous.†(Acts 24:15) Their presence was symbolic (prophetic) of what lay ahead.

[Anne Rittenhouse]

The Judas gospel implies that Jesus knew exactly what had to be accomplished in the final days of his life and that he needed a man that would help him out. Judas was chosen as a most beloved confidant to hand Jesus over to the authorities. This is shown as an act of supreme obediance to Jesus instead of a act of betrayal. In exchange, Judas is promised a seat in the house of the lord.

 

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/

 

There's a pdf file of the translation available here.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Anne Rittenhouse

[Pretty in Pink]

Thank you, Anne, for providing this link.

[Guest Katia]

The Judas gospel implies that Jesus knew exactly what had to be accomplished in the final days of his life and that he needed a man that would help him out. Judas was chosen as a most beloved confidant to hand Jesus over to the authorities. This is show as an act of supreme obedience to Jesus instead of a act of betrayal. In exchange, Judas is promised a seat in the house of the lord.

 

 

 

I had never heard of the Judas gospel (thanks for the link), but this is what I have always believed from reading the account in the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It doesn't seem that he chose this path as much as it was chosen for him. During the Last Supper he seems so reluctant to leave and Jesus practically orders him to go do his evil deed. Seems like if Jesus had just encouraged him to stay, that he would have gladly. Jesus needed him to do this for God's ultimate will to be accomplished. I have always felt horrible about how Judas was used this way.

 

Yes, I believe he will be in heaven as his reward for fulfilling a most difficult position in the entire drama.

[Pretty in Pink]

I had never heard of the Judas gospel (thanks for the link), but this is what I have always believed from reading the account in the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It doesn't seem that he chose this path as much as it was chosen for him. During the Last Supper he seems so reluctant to leave and Jesus practically orders him to go do his evil deed. Seems like if Jesus had just encouraged him to stay, that he would have gladly. Jesus needed him to do this for God's ultimate will to be accomplished. I have always felt horrible about how Judas was used this way.

 

Yes, I believe he will be in heaven as his reward for fulfilling a most difficult position in the entire drama.

 

You have summed up my *feelings* on the subject as well. Did Judas even have a choice? Somebody intimately close to him had to betray him in order for the Lord's plan to prevail. Of course, as others have stated, we won't know for sure until we get there, but it makes for intersting discussion.

[Carol in Cal.]

You have summed up my *feelings* on the subject as well. Did Judas even have a choice? Somebody intimately close to him had to betray him in order for the Lord's plan to prevail. Of course, as others have stated, we won't know for sure until we get there, but it makes for intersting discussion.

 

This goes too far, I think.

 

No one had to betray Him in order for the Lord's plan to prevail. That was just one way it could have happened. Don't you think God could have figured out something else? Of course He could have. We can't box Him in like that.

 

And, yes, Judas had a choice. It was a very tough choice, but a choice nonetheless. Just as Peter had a choice, and chose to deny Christ to the servant girl, as He was being led away.

 

I think, emphasis THINK rather than know, that Judas was looking to force Jesus' hand. I THINK that he was trying to precipitate a general revolt, and that he thought that he would be the kingmaker. I have always heard Jesus' words ("What you must do, do quickly.") as holding disgust for Judas' deed, and as conveying to Judas that He knew what Judas was supposedly secretly planning; not as giving an order.

 

Whether or not I'm right about that THOUGHT, God's not a tame Lion, and He can do things any number of ways. He did not need Judas to save humanity.

[Pamela H in Texas]

No one had to betray Him in order for the Lord's plan to prevail. That was just one way it could have happened. Don't you think God could have figured out something else? Of course He could have. We can't box Him in like that.

 

But God has the ability (sometimes used, sometimes not) of foreknowing what will happen. He knew it would happen and it was foretold in the scriptures. I think God was simply fortelling that would happen, not planning for it to happen making Judas a willing pawn. I don't think God would HAVE anyone commit that sin.

[Chris in VA]

Moses and Elijah lived before the heavenly hope opened up to humans. They will be part of the earthly “resurrection of .*.*. the righteous.†(Acts 24:15) Their presence was symbolic (prophetic) of what lay ahead. (Sorry, I don't know how to use the quotes, so I'll just quote you in blue)

 

Pam, could you clarify--Is this belief is specific to Mormon theology?

[Audrey]

I don't know about Judas (Dante has him in Hell, I believe) but Catholics DO NOT believe that those who commit suicide go to hell.

 

Umm... I think you'll get a variety of opinions on that from Catholics. My fil's wife is a former nun, and she has been clear on that issue -- suicide is a mortal sin, and unless you confess/receive absolution before you take your last breath, you are ****ed to hell.

 

FWIW, I only know that because quite unfortunately, the issue touched our extended family last year.

[mommaduck]

Also consider that the Gospel of Judas was written several hundred years later by a Gnostic...not by Judas or anyone close to Judas. Rather by one person, from a particular sect of Christianity, espousing his presumptions and views.

[Tami]

The "gospel" of Judas is nothing new - and it isn't Scripture. It's a fake and utter nonsense. No serious Bible scholar accepts it as anything but a fraud.

[Lovedtodeath]

I think you can be forgiven by Christ and still commit suicide. Believing does not make the human condition disappear.

:iagree:

 

No, I don't think so.

 

Acts 1:24-25: "Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which one of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs."

 

and

 

Matthew 26:24: "The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

 

If Judas is in heaven, then that last statement in bold doesn't make sense,

 

I don't think it has anything to do with suicide, I think it has to do with the state of his relationship with the Lord at his time of death. I think he felt remorse, but I don't think he trusted in Jesus as his Lord and Savior, nor do I think he repented and asked for forgiveness, which is what is required of sinners.

:iagree:

 

Well, totally leaving out what he did, if he died before Christ, no, he's not in Heaven, nor is he going there. That is not the hope set before people who died before Christ. Those people will be involved in the resurrection and given an opportunity of life.

 

Another aspect to this question is do all good people go to heaven?

 

Acts 2:34 "Actually David did not ascend to the heavens"

 

Heb 11:

 

And what more shall I say? For the time will fail me if I go on to relate about Gid´e·on, Ba´rak, Samson, Jeph´thah, David as well as Samuel and the [other] prophets, 33 who through faith defeated kingdoms in conflict, ........

 

 

39 And yet all these, although they had witness borne to them through their faith, did not get the [fulfillment of the] promise, 40 as God foresaw something better for us, in order that they might not be made perfect apart from us.

 

Matt 11:11 Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.

 

 

"Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth."—Matt. 5:5.

 

Obviously, Christ's followers in the New Testament have a hope of life in heaven. So much more information is needed than what is here in order to determine who these are that will inherit the earth.

If people who died before Christ are not in heaven, how do you explain Moses and Elijah tallking to Jesus at the time of the tranfiguration in Matthew 17? They both died before Christ yet they were there in Matthew 17 talking to Jesus.

 

 

Matthew 17:9 And as they were descending from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying: "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of man is raised up from the dead."

 

Would it be called a vision if they were literally there?

 

 

I don't know about Judas, but here is a theme I see from the New Testament: if, and only if, we hold fast and abide TO THE END, it is the proof that we are really saved."

 

Here are some sample Scriptures:Hebrews 3:6 , Hebrews 3:14, 2 John 1:9

 

Good explanation Tami.

[Lovedtodeath]

I see what you are saying though, to be fair, people do disagree as to the Bible's transparency on this subject. I believe it was Augustine who first introduced the concept of eternal security which was later expounded upon, perhaps most notably, by Calvin.

 

But we are supposed to listen to God, through the scriptures. Not to people.

[Janet in Toronto]

Umm... I think you'll get a variety of opinions on that from Catholics. My fil's wife is a former nun, and she has been clear on that issue -- suicide is a mortal sin, and unless you confess/receive absolution before you take your last breath, you are ****ed to hell.

 

 

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

 

Suicide (link to online version of this section of CCC)

 

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

 

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

 

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

 

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

 

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

 

===================

 

For a sin to be mortal, it must be grave matter, committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent. The comment about "grave psychological disturbances" in paragraph 2282 speaks to the third of these conditions. It is in these circumstances that the sin could be considered to be NOT mortal.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Janet in Toronto
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[dangermom]

I don't see how we could possibly know, nor do I think we ought to try to make that judgement.

[Cricket]

Moses and Elijah lived before the heavenly hope opened up to humans. They will be part of the earthly “resurrection of .*.*. the righteous.†(Acts 24:15) Their presence was symbolic (prophetic) of what lay ahead. (Sorry, I don't know how to use the quotes, so I'll just quote you in blue)

 

Pam, could you clarify--Is this belief is specific to Mormon theology?

 

I'm curious about this too. I've never heard this idea before.

[Word Nerd]

I had never heard of the Judas gospel (thanks for the link), but this is what I have always believed from reading the account in the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It doesn't seem that he chose this path as much as it was chosen for him. During the Last Supper he seems so reluctant to leave and Jesus practically orders him to go do his evil deed. Seems like if Jesus had just encouraged him to stay, that he would have gladly. Jesus needed him to do this for God's ultimate will to be accomplished. I have always felt horrible about how Judas was used this way.

 

Yes, I believe he will be in heaven as his reward for fulfilling a most difficult position in the entire drama.

 

This sounds more like Jesus Christ Superstar than the biblical account.

[Tree House Academy]

Without reading through all the other posts, here is my response.

 

I do not believe Judas is in Hell. First of all, God created Judas to play THE significant role of betraying Jesus in those final hours. His life was for this purpose. Had he not betrayed Jesus, God's plan would not have been carried through in the way it was meant to be. I believe that Judas, like the rest of us, was a sinner. But I do not believe that one must repent immediately or burn in Hell. He had faith in Christ. He had faith in God. His sin was greed. He knew his sin, he admitted his sin - and in my opinion, "forgive me father" does not have to be uttered for God to forgive. He has this wonderful ability to know what we feel inside our hearts - He doesn't have to hear certain words.

 

I also feel that once saved, always saved. God doesn't sit and erase the names from the lamb's book of life and then write them back, then take them out, then write them back. You don't "lose" salvation once you are truly a child of God (meaning you knowingly and willingly accept Jesus as your savior). I also agree with others that suicide is a sin, but it is not unforgivable - how would a dead person ask forgiveness? Again, God is all knowing, all powerful and he knows the heart of each and every person.

 

However, and here is where I tend to lose people in my thinking...I don't think anyone is in Heaven just yet other than God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). In Revelation, there is a passage that speaks of how Jesus will return and raise the dead from the seas first to join him in Heaven. I am not sure what I think we do from the time we die until we go to Heaven, but I also am not 100% convinced you go there before rapture comes.

 

For the record...I was raised Baptist and my current church is Baptist. I am a bit more non-denominational in beliefs though.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[JWSJ]

I had never heard of the Judas gospel (thanks for the link), but this is what I have always believed from reading the account in the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It doesn't seem that he chose this path as much as it was chosen for him. During the Last Supper he seems so reluctant to leave and Jesus practically orders him to go do his evil deed. Seems like if Jesus had just encouraged him to stay, that he would have gladly. Jesus needed him to do this for God's ultimate will to be accomplished. I have always felt horrible about how Judas was used this way.

 

Never read the Judas gospel, but I also always suspected that Judas was "set-up".

 

But, then I also think Jesus' work was manipulated by those that came after him.

 

I read somewhere years ago that Mary M. also had a gospel. That would provide a different perspective on everything.

[bluecalmsea]

Pam isn't Mormon. She's a Jehovah's Witness. I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm wrong... JW's believe that before Jesus died, those who died had a chance of being resurrected to Earth, which they believe will be return to it's pre-fall state. They also believe that only 144,000 people have the hope of heaven, and others will live on the aforementioned new earth. Did I get that right, Pam?

[Anne Rittenhouse]

I read somewhere years ago that Mary M. also had a gospel. That would provide a different perspective on everything.

 

Yes, there are many other gospels. They represent the diversity of views between and among the earliest christian groups.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Pam, could you clarify--Is this belief is specific to Mormon theology?

 

I have EXTREMELY limited knowledge of what Mormon's believe. Sorry. (I also saw your post in a reply so sorry for not answering sooner and directly).

 

Bluecalmsea is correct. God's original purpose for mankind is stated in the very first book of Genesis. His purpose never changed and WILL come true (Isa 55:10,11).

Edited January 18, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[mommaduck]

Also consider that the Gospel of Judas was written several hundred years later by a Gnostic...not by Judas or anyone close to Judas. Rather by one person, from a particular sect of Christianity, espousing his presumptions and views.

Just bumping this as it seems people are still presuming that Judas wrote the Gospel of Judas.

[Lovedtodeath]

God's original purpose for mankind is stated in the very first book of Genesis. His purpose never changed and WILL come true (Isa 55:10,11).

 

Here is a comforting scripture concerning God's purpose for the earth:

 

Psalm 104:5 He has founded the earth upon its established places;

It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever.

 

JW's believe that before Jesus died, those who died had a chance of being resurrected to Earth, which they believe will be return to it's pre-fall state. They also believe that only 144,000 people have the hope of heaven, and others will live on the aforementioned new earth. Did I get that right, Pam?

 

This is what helped me to understand it: (I hope it is okay that I am adding to what you have to say Pam. When I was learning these things, I put a lot more faith in the Christian Greek Scriptures, so I like to use those as much as I can when talking to other people.)

 

Rev. 5:9, 10: "You [Jesus Christ] were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth." (At Revelation 14:1-3 these "bought from the earth" to be rulers with the Lamb on heavenly Mount Zion are said to number 144,000.)

 

2 Pet:3:13 "But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell."

 

Of course, there is more than this, but I am being brief.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[momtoboys]

I'm a Bible-believing Christian. . .and. . .

 

1. Did Judas go to heaven? I have no idea really. . I'm not God.;) I believe only God knows people's hearts.

 

2. Do people who commit suicide go to heaven? Actually, I just asked my pastor this question recently, and he showed me from the Bible/told me that yes, they would go to heaven (albeit, they'd be disobedient to God to commit suicide).

 

I didn't read all the other replies.

[Lakeside]

When considering this, I think it is also important to look at Judas' behavior overall.

John 12 v.5 Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the money givin to the poor? 6 (He said this not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief; he kept the common purse and used to steal what was put into it.)

 

This makes it hard for me to believe that he was set up or taken advantage of. He was rebuking Mary for showing Jesus a kindness, because of his own selfishness and greed.

[mommaduck]

When considering this, I think it is also important to look at Judas' behavior overall.

John 12 v.5 Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the money givin to the poor? 6 (He said this not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief; he kept the common purse and used to steal what was put into it.)

 

This makes it hard for me to believe that he was set up or taken advantage of. He was rebuking Mary for showing Jesus a kindness, because of his own selfishness and greed.

Where does it say that he used to steal money from the common purse?

[*********]

Where does it say that he used to steal money from the common purse?

 

John 12:4-6 (New International Version)

 

 

4But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5"Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." 6He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

[Chris in VA]

Sorry, Pam, for getting it wrong--I thought you were Mormon.:001_smile:

[mommaduck]

John 12:4-6 (New International Version)

 

 

4But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5"Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." 6He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

 

Thank you. I didn't realise you were quoting the first time...I thought you were making a presumption ;)