Quitting a Germy Sport (TKD woes)

[Ting Tang]

My son is often "patient zero" as he seems to get ill from his TKD class often. If I thought it was a great class, I'd push to keep him there, but it is housed at the YMCA.  And I don't consider it a quality program.  The same kids seem to show up ill, and one of them was the kid who put his foot on my son.  His brother once sat down next to me and told me he was getting over Covid.  My MIL is still battling pancreatic cancer---she wants to live her life as she is 79, but I really can't get her a serious illness.  I realize we can get sick anywhere, but this is just happening too often through this activity. 

Unfortunately, it is the only TKD option in our area.  Belt promotions move incredibly slow, except for the adult who joined after my son and is nearly a black belt already.  (My son stayed a white belt for 8 months, despite having a lot of natural ability.)  It just doesn't even seem worth it to me.  My son has many interests.  He said he still liked the class and TKD, but he does not like being sick all of the time. If I felt it was his life's greatest passion, I probably wouldn't be writing this.  But I also thought getting a black belt would be a huge accomplishment for him---but that probably won't happen for years!  And he has been in the class for 2.5 years.  We are going on week 3 of illness. I masked as soon as I realized I caught his bug, but it just seemed to delay the inevitable as it is going through the whole family.

Have you ever just had your child stop doing something for this reason?

 

 

[wintermom]

I stopped being a swimming instructor because I was constantly getting really sore throats, strep and ear infections. I absolutely love swimming, but getting sick all the time was no fun.

If your ds isn't absolutely in love with his TKD program, perhaps you can see what else he'd like to try. Maybe look for activities where the participants have a lot less physical contact with each other, like volleyball, tennis, badminton. Individual sports may also be an option, like athletics (running, throwing events), swimming, rowing/paddling, skiing, climbing, etc. There are so many sports and rec activities to try. It all depends on your ds's interests, availability and cost. 

 

[Katy]

Yes I’ve stopped my kids from going to places and activities where we always got sick afterwards. It’s not worth it. 

[HomeAgain]

We've given up activity because of the people involved. It's not the activity's fault, it's the participants (and their parents) who actively come in sick or believe that if a child gets it worse than what they have it's because they didn't pray hard enough.  Our circles got very small between 2020 and 2022.  DS now attends a science-forward scout troop instead of his 4-H group.  We dropped p.e. (a petri dish) and general skating classes for ones with smaller groups and coaches we trust.

Other people's poor decisions shouldn't be a feature in my kid's life.

[KSera]

Not quite the same, but when my kids were younger we stopped having them go to Sunday school during flu season. People just always thought nothing of dropping their sick kids off at Sunday school. 

[Ting Tang]

Thank you all. I feel much better! I've definitely avoided church, youth groups, etc. as well because of the germ factor.  I can't pray germs away, I have discovered, lol.

The cycle seems to be a spike in Covid, too, with the start of new school years.  Colds, flus, covid, etc.  I simply do not trust these people anymore.  I know we can randomly get ill, but there is a definite pattern here.

I hope I can find something else for him to do!

[Indigo Blue]

Not my kids. Me. I worked in a church nursery for so many years. I stayed sick all the time because people brought their children to church with fevers and runny noses. I always went straight to a sinus infection that was hard to treat. It took me too long to be done with that. 
 

 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

My son is often "patient zero" as he seems to get ill from his TKD class often. If I thought it was a great class, I'd push to keep him there, but it is housed at the YMCA.  And I don't consider it a quality program.  The same kids seem to show up ill, and one of them was the kid who put his foot on my son.  His brother once sat down next to me and told me he was getting over Covid.  My MIL is still battling pancreatic cancer---she wants to live her life as she is 79, but I really can't get her a serious illness.  I realize we can get sick anywhere, but this is just happening too often through this activity. 

Unfortunately, it is the only TKD option in our area.  Belt promotions move incredibly slow, except for the adult who joined after my son and is nearly a black belt already.  (My son stayed a white belt for 8 months, despite having a lot of natural ability.)  It just doesn't even seem worth it to me.  My son has many interests.  He said he still liked the class and TKD, but he does not like being sick all of the time. If I felt it was his life's greatest passion, I probably wouldn't be writing this.  But I also thought getting a black belt would be a huge accomplishment for him---but that probably won't happen for years!  And he has been in the class for 2.5 years.  We are going on week 3 of illness. I masked as soon as I realized I caught his bug, but it just seemed to delay the inevitable as it is going through the whole family.

Have you ever just had your child stop doing something for this reason?

 

 

I’m only going to comment on the black belt aspect of your post. Getting a black belt in any martial art should mean something. And if it’s going to mean something, it should take many years and lots of hard work. Unfortunately, many martial arts schools are simply black belt factories because that’s how they make money and the belts are basically meaningless. So while I can see you deciding to leave the school due to illness or other issues, I would generally see slow progression on belts to be a positive and not a negative. It took my son ten years to earn a black belt, but it very much meant something and still does. Just one aspect of his test was consecutively sparring ten adult male black belts until he scored a point on each one.

[Harriet Vane]

4 minutes ago, Frances said:

I’m only going to comment on the black belt aspect of your post. Getting a black belt in any martial art should mean something. And if it’s going to mean something, it should take many years and lots of hard work. Unfortunately, many martial arts schools are simply black belt factories because that’s how they make money and the belts are basically meaningless. So while I can see you deciding to leave the school due to illness or other issues, I would generally see slow progression on belts to be a positive and not a negative. It took my son ten years to earn a black belt, but it very much meant something and still does. Just one aspect of his test was consecutively sparring ten adult male black belts until he scored a point on each one.

This is true, but I think there's some nuance in there too. Eight months as a white belt is ridiculous. My observation is that it's possible to swing through the lower belts at a faster clip, but things should slow down when you're getting towards the middle. As the skills ramp up in complexity and there's more sparring, a slowdown is simply a reflection of what it takes to have mastery of the material.

[Frances]

9 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

This is true, but I think there's some nuance in there too. Eight months as a white belt is ridiculous. My observation is that it's possible to swing through the lower belts at a faster clip, but things should slow down when you're getting towards the middle. As the skills ramp up in complexity and there's more sparring, a slowdown is simply a reflection of what it takes to have mastery of the material.

Depending on the age, ability, and behavior of the child, I personally don’t see eight months as a white belt being ridiculous. My son’s style (not TKD) did not let kids start before age seven and all classes were mixed ages. There were certainly some children who took up to a year to earn their first belt, mainly due to being unable to focus, listen, and not talk or goof off for any length of time, often combined with only sporadic class attendance and sometimes also lower innate athleticism.

What I always found more ridiculous is seeing young kids in some other styles with black belts who didn’t look like they had mastered much of anything when it came to form and technique, let alone discipline. I think that is much more problematic than slow progression. Although I also think martial arts schools need to be judged and evaluated on a variety of factors.

Edited August 30 by Frances

[Harriet Vane]

1 minute ago, Frances said:

Depending on the age, ability, and behavior of the child, I personally don’t see eight months as a white belt being ridiculous. My son’s style (not TKD) did not let kids start before age seven and all classes were mixed ages. There were certainly some children who took up to a year to earn their first belt, mainly due to being unable to focus, listen, and not talk or goof off for any length of time.

It makes sense to me not to start before age 7. I guess I would say that if a child cannot focus, listen, not talk and not goof off, then it's probably better to wait until they are able to engage more meaningfully. I did actually pull my dd from a martial arts class for this reason--she was floppy and silly, and the folks in charge seemed unable to reign that in. They focused a lot more on the upper belts. There's only so much an instructor can do, so I didn't hold it against them. But I did pull my kid from that activity and put her into activities that were a better match. I don't like to apply a strict one-size-fits-all policy to children, so I'm sure there are parents who would find it worthwhile to keep their kid in martial arts even with such struggles. Personally, though, I chose differently.

[EKS]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

Have you ever just had your child stop doing something for this reason?

My son stopped taking the school bus when he convinced me that it was making him sick constantly.  He was in high school but the bus had kids as young as 10 on it and all seats were filled three abreast (with kids on the floor as well).  Anyway, it worked.

[kirstenhill]

I think it seems totally fair to quit or at least take a break and see if it helps.  If he stops the TKD and still gets sick, you'll know it was somewhere else or some other factor causing him to get sick, and you can always return later. 

I feel like length of time to progress through belts is often not a transparent process.  When my kids did TKD, sometimes it would seem to me they would be "stuck" at a certain belt for a while - but there was nothing they could do about it but attend class, do their best, and their instructor would decide when they were qualified to test.  I did observe that sometimes adults progressed much faster - it seemed like in many cases either the adult had done TKD long ago (maybe as a kid) so they could essentially re-learn and progress quickly.  Or they had done some other martial art and even if it wasn't the same, it wasn't much of a stretch to learn TKD after learning, say, Karate in the past.

[wintermom]

3 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

Unfortunately, it is the only TKD option in our area.  Belt promotions move incredibly slow, except for the adult who joined after my son and is nearly a black belt already.  (My son stayed a white belt for 8 months, despite having a lot of natural ability.)  It just doesn't even seem worth it to me.  My son has many interests.  He said he still liked the class and TKD, but he does not like being sick all of the time. If I felt it was his life's greatest passion, I probably wouldn't be writing this.  But I also thought getting a black belt would be a huge accomplishment for him---but that probably won't happen for years!  And he has been in the class for 2.5 years.  We are going on week 3 of illness. I masked as soon as I realized I caught his bug, but it just seemed to delay the inevitable as it is going through the whole family.

I'm a 3rd degree black belt in TKD, and all my 4 dc were in TKD. The progression through the belts is often the main focus on the journey up to 1st degree black belt. It's normal, as it's pretty exciting to be able to say "I'm a black belt." However once achieving 1st degree, I was told that I'm just at the start of my real understanding of TKD. After 1st belt, it takes one full year to get 2nd, then 2 more years to get 3rd, and so on. The year(s) just flies by, with much to learn, while building on the 1st black belt foundation aquired through time and practice. 

I know it doesn't seem 'fair' or motivating to wait for belt promotion, but the time spent on putting in the time and effort to learn the techniques and knowledge is not wasted. If your ds has been sick a lot, it's possible that he kept missing key classes to prepare him for the next belt promotion. It may also be possible that the instructor who recommends students for promotion didn't have the opportunity to see your ds successfully complete all aspects required for the upcoming belt promotion. The number of students in classes, number of training sessions attended per week also play a big part of how quickly one progresses. My studio only had 2 training sessions a week for the first few years of my training. It takes a long time to solidify one's technique and knowledge with only 2 training sessions a week. Also, at-home practice is really important, as long as the correct techniques are being done.

As a parent watching TKD without having the lived experience of training alongside your ds, I can understand that it would be somewhat frustrating seeing other students seem to move much faster than your ds. What you may not realize is that other students (especially adults) may join martial arts with a full range of talents, such as already being a red belt from a different studio or a different martial art. Adults typically understand the theory and knowledge concepts more fully, while young athletic children learn the movements quicker. But you need both knowledge/theory AND technique to pass a belt test. Also, the TKD studios I knew of would be realistic in the capacity of adults to be able to physically complete movements. People with physical limitations are not held back because their flexibility just isn't there. This is seen more in adults than young kids, who usually aren't facing the same physical limitations. 

Edited August 30 by wintermom

[Clarita]

4 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

Have you ever just had your child stop doing something for this reason?

Yes even just for the illness reason. I don't care as much about a progression through a sport. Although the previous issue of how "discipline" or "motivation" was administered that would give me pause too. I would include DS in the conversation of why I don't want to do it anymore and what he thinks.

FWIW my parents quit a lot of activities for me growing up because I wasn't very good or progressing. It's a bit demoralizing after a while (I felt my entire childhood that I wasn't very good at anything). There are a few activities where I wished they would have let me stick with it even if I didn't progress as fast. A few activities where later my mom revealed other reason the activity was dropped (that were legitimate, attitude/treatment of students, cost, commitment, etc.), I wished she just told me those reasons instead of the progress reasons.  

[gardenmom5]

Dudeling's aikido is at a private studio.  The adult class is small, but masks are required.    The owner is 65/70.  (None of the black belts can throw him.  Not even the 6'4" built like a tree bb).   I've wondered if it's to keep him from getting sick.

[Ting Tang]

My son started at age 10.  We've seen white belts get promoted in as little as a month or two.  Considering his focus and ability, it does feel unfair to him, but I consider the source.  I totally agree that black belt factories are not a good thing and that it should mean something to become one.  I'm just very unimpressed with the program, and the germ factor I think is a result of people who just don't seem to care...

 

[Ausmumof3]

We pretty much quit indoor swimming due to constant illness and that was prior to Covid. 
 

If he really likes it maybe you could find another martial art that has better ventilation or even outdoor? 

[Ting Tang]

@Ausmumof3  I wish we could find a better program, but it would be farther away.  And I really wish it could be done solo or outdoors, but we do live in a cold weather state.  😞  Maybe I will still do some searching around!  

It's awful when the germs seem to take over.  😞  I think people should stay home when they are at their germiest.  

[klmama]

It's frustrating when kids are in activities that make the family sick for weeks on end!  Between what you've written here and the problems shared earlier, this program has provided more than its share of aggravation.  I'd pull him and find another activity for him -- NOT at the Y!  

[Ting Tang]

19 minutes ago, klmama said:

It's frustrating when kids are in activities that make the family sick for weeks on end!  Between what you've written here and the problems shared earlier, this program has provided more than its share of aggravation.  I'd pull him and find another activity for him -- NOT at the Y!  

Yep, this was bad because it basically ruined a second vacation for us.  😞  A new ju jitsu program was started at the Y a couple of months ago, and he was very interested in joining it.  He even said how much better it was than his class...  But I told him there would be no more activities at the Y.  Anything else must be elsewhere!

[wintermom]

5 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

My son started at age 10.  We've seen white belts get promoted in as little as a month or two.  Considering his focus and ability, it does feel unfair to him, but I consider the source.  I totally agree that black belt factories are not a good thing and that it should mean something to become one.  I'm just very unimpressed with the program, and the germ factor I think is a result of people who just don't seem to care...

 

Wow! I just assumed he was younger, but at 10 years it should be quicker than 8 months for his first belt test. There could be factors such as having a high enough instructor to hold a test, the number of students, and how often your ds trains each week. Does this studio do stripes on belts to divide a belt colour into 2 steps (e.g., yellow stripe, then yellow belt)? 

I hope you can find another activity that your son enjoys and fits better with staying healthy. It sounds like your ds is about 13 now, which is a great age to try out sports - especially with good coordination and focus that typically comes through TKD training. Volleyball seems to be a sport that is nice for starting at around that age. My ds started playing recreationally when he was 14 and later played competitive club. He's now doing beach volleyball as well. It is so fun to watch!

[catz]

I think it is fine to quit if this gym isn’t working for your family.  That said, this is exact age I would want to make sure a homeschooled kid this has multiple physical and social outlets every week.  Especially if siblings have good outlets.  
 

so I would balance this with what we could replace it with.  If my 10 year old loved it, I might not drop it.  But I might require handwashing before leaving, nasal spray in the car, full shower when you get home.  My daughter went to a basement dance studio for years and that was super germs but she loved it.  Illnesses did cut back when we got better with some basic protocols after dance.  

[BronzeTurtle]

I think if a kid has a lot of drive and sets his own goals, taking him out of something because of illnesses would be a mistake unless he was immunocompromised or it was something really extreme. Anywhere a kid goes with group classes they're going to get sick, on average a few times a year. If he knows any goals he makes will be cut off because of sicknesses (which he will have) that would be incredibly demoralizing. on the other hand, if he makes a goal and sticks with it despite obstacles that can be incredibly confidence building.

I don't think sheltering kids from normal life is good for very many reasons, tbh, which I think homeschoolers in particular tend to do. In a lot of cases they do it on the basis of making family time or religious devotionals the most important thing, not avoiding germs, but I think it creates apathetic kids in the long run either way because whatever they pursue gets taken away so they stop making goals or taking an interest in stuff. when it comes time to launch this is a bigger problem.

[BronzeTurtle]

and in that same vein, if people are being tested in a matter of 2 months while he's waited for 8 months, and he's stuck with it for that long and been patient and hard working, I would be helping him figure out with the admin and instructors what the issue actually is.

but I do think it's fine if the program isn't working as a whole to quit and do something else. But I would want to have my kid's buy-in on quitting and moving on.

[Frances]

On 8/30/2024 at 4:48 PM, Ting Tang said:

Yep, this was bad because it basically ruined a second vacation for us.  😞  A new ju jitsu program was started at the Y a couple of months ago, and he was very interested in joining it.  He even said how much better it was than his class...  But I told him there would be no more activities at the Y.  Anything else must be elsewhere!

Nm

Edited September 1 by Frances

[Murphy101]

18 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

We pretty much quit indoor swimming due to constant illness and that was prior to Covid. 
 

If he really likes it maybe you could find another martial art that has better ventilation or even outdoor? 

The heck? Is it just nasty pools or what?

Swimming *should* be one of the healthiest environments?  It’s basicly washing your body, not just your hands, for an hour a day. UNLESS the pool is not maintained or people are swimming with a stomach illness.  So head colds? Not so much.  But if my kids were getting stomachs bugs after every swim - yeah no.  The coaches should be sending info home explaining how fast that can spread in a pool.

If the pools were nasty/sick inducing - I’d leave that so fast and report the eww factor as why. 

[Murphy101]

I LOVE teaching catechesis ages 3-9. But I am not going to lie that I also dread it starting back up bc of the snot factor. In the fall, it feels like I just never stop taking cold meds. Like those are my daily vitamins once classes start back up and the daily viral pathogen exchange begins. 

[knitgrl]

17 hours ago, catz said:

I think it is fine to quit if this gym isn’t working for your family.  That said, this is exact age I would want to make sure a homeschooled kid this has multiple physical and social outlets every week.  Especially if siblings have good outlets.  
 

so I would balance this with what we could replace it with.  If my 10 year old loved it, I might not drop it.  But I might require handwashing before leaving, nasal spray in the car, full shower when you get home.  My daughter went to a basement dance studio for years and that was super germs but she loved it.  Illnesses did cut back when we got better with some basic protocols after dance.  

Sorry to highjack, but we will be going back to TKD in a few weeks. As I am kinda immune-compromised atm, I am a somewhat concerned about being surrounded by snotty kids. What nasal spray do you use? I've tried to wade my way through internet search results, and haven't found much that is helpful.

[Ausmumof3]

5 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

The heck? Is it just nasty pools or what?

Swimming *should* be one of the healthiest environments?  It’s basicly washing your body, not just your hands, for an hour a day. UNLESS the pool is not maintained or people are swimming with a stomach illness.  So head colds? Not so much.  But if my kids were getting stomachs bugs after every swim - yeah no.  The coaches should be sending info home explaining how fast that can spread in a pool.

If the pools were nasty/sick inducing - I’d leave that so fast and report the eww factor as why. 

I think it’s the warmth and humidity indoors outside the pool not the water itself. And possibly just the challenge to the kids immune systems of going from warm indoor environment to cold damp outside to home. Had it in at least two different pools. Never had an issue with outdoor swimming pools though.
 

My sis got that very nasty stomach bug from a pool when pregnant - it was quite scary but thankfully she and my niece ended up being ok. 

[wintermom]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think it’s the warmth and humidity indoors outside the pool not the water itself. And possibly just the challenge to the kids immune systems of going from warm indoor environment to cold damp outside to home. Had it in at least two different pools. Never had an issue with outdoor swimming pools though.
 

My sis got that very nasty stomach bug from a pool when pregnant - it was quite scary but thankfully she and my niece ended up being ok. 

This was definitely the case for me. Even when pool water is well managed, it can be hard for some people's immune systems. I was always getting strep throat, sore throats and ear infections. There is a lot of places that bacteria can thrive outside of the pool water. I was a swimming instructor, though, and often spent 2 - 6 hours at the pool. 

The outdoor pool was not better, as I lived in a cold climate where the summers aren't that warm. I'd get colds from being outdoors and wet. I did love swimming, though, but have had to cut way back.

[Murphy101]

6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think it’s the warmth and humidity indoors outside the pool not the water itself. And possibly just the challenge to the kids immune systems of going from warm indoor environment to cold damp outside to home. Had it in at least two different pools. Never had an issue with outdoor swimming pools though.
 

My sis got that very nasty stomach bug from a pool when pregnant - it was quite scary but thankfully she and my niece ended up being ok. 

Oh. As someone with mold issues - I can totally see that.  It’s not enough to treat the water, you have to treat everything for an inside pool. The walls, the ventilation, just… everything. And I’m sure many places aren’t very meticulous about it.

[Ting Tang]

Thank you everyone.  I thoroughly believe that room has the worst ventilation combined with poor/inconsiderate hygiene habits from certain students.  I agree many of us homeschoolers do tend to shelter from germs, but I live nextdoor to my mother in law who has metastatic pancreatic cancer.  We really do need to be careful as she is on chemo and will be starting more targeted radiation.  I can't keep my kids out of activities for their own well-being, either.

I actually found an online TKD program that looks interesting if he'd like to keep up with it.

Fortunately, he does have friendship outside of this program, so I am not worried in that regard, though I do think other socialization is important, too.