Can we talk about husbands expectations

[bolt.]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t know why she can’t tell him no. I can’t comprehend the dynamic. 

When this was true for someone in my life, I used to say, "I don't know why she can't tell him no."

But the truth was that it was very easy to understand.

The "cost" he attached to her attempts to deny his requests and expectations was harder, more effort, and more upsetting than simply handling the request itself. He was always ready to demonstrate that to her and rarely needed to do anything significant at all. She was a gentle soul who hated even small upsets and never wanted to let anyone down, so she rarely got her way in any of her relationships and didn't really have the instinct to push anyone to achieve anything. Sometimes she lost her temper about it all, but mostly it combined into a system that was workable and predictable for both of them. She knew she theoretically "could" tell him "no" -- she just also knew what would happen if she did, and she'd rather not go through that if there was a simpler option.

I regret doing her the disservice of not believing she was intelligent enough to accurately anticipate the outcomes of her options -- and to choose the one she genuinely preferred. He was very dependent on her, and increasingly became demanding and controlling until his diagnosis with dementia. She wasn't her happiest self with him, but she vastly preferred it to any other way of being with him, and she also preferred it to her imagination of life without him.

It was an important step of respect when I let myself believe she was capable of making the best decision for herself, and that she (not me) was most likely to completely understand the nuances of the situation she lived in.

[Catwoman]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

No!

 

16 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t know why she can’t tell him no. I can’t comprehend the dynamic. 

I am not usually one to rush to suggest therapy, but if she wants to tell him no, but can't tell him no, that's more of a "her" problem than a "him" problem. I doubt it will come easy to her to become more assertive, but as it is, there's not a single thing you can do to help her if she isn't willing to be very upfront with him about what she wants and what she needs.

That dynamic would never work for me, either, so I don't have any personal experience with having to overcome something like that. 

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, bolt. said:

When this was true for someone in my life, I used to say, "I don't know why she can't tell him no."

But the truth was that it was very easy to understand.

The "cost" he attached to her attempts to deny his requests and expectations was harder, more effort, and more upsetting than simply handling the request itself. He was always ready to demonstrate that to her and rarely needed to do anything significant at all. She was a gentle soul who hated even small upsets and never wanted to let anyone down, so she rarely got her way in any of her relationships and didn't really have the instinct to push anyone to achieve anything. Sometimes she lost her temper about it all, but mostly it combined into a system that was workable and predictable for both of them. She knew she theoretically "could" tell him "no" -- she just also knew what would happen if she did, and she'd rather not go through that if there was a simpler option.

I regret doing her the disservice of not believing she was intelligent enough to accurately anticipate the outcomes of her options -- and to choose the one she genuinely preferred. He was very dependent on her, and increasingly became demanding and controlling until his diagnosis with dementia. She wasn't her happiest self with him, but she vastly preferred it to any other way of being with him, and she also preferred it to her imagination of life without him.

It was an important step of respect when I let myself believe she was capable of making the best decision for herself, and that she (not me) was most likely to completely understand the nuances of the situation she lived in.

While this is true and I do leave her to handle her marriage  she is directly telling me she is at the end of her rope. 

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I am not usually one to rush to suggest therapy, but if she wants to tell him no, but can't tell him no, that's more of a "her" problem than a "him" problem. I doubt it will come easy to her to become more assertive, but as it is, there's not a single thing you can do to help her if she isn't willing to be very upfront with him about what she wants and what she needs.

That dynamic would never work for me, either, so I don't have any personal experience with having to overcome something like that. 

She was going to therapy and it helped her. But basically I don’t think he will ever change. 

[bolt.]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

While this is true and I do leave her to handle her marriage  she is directly telling me she is at the end of her rope. 

I get that feeling, and I've been in that role.

One thing you can do is get behind her and help facilitate the lies she chooses to use in this difficult situation. In my situation, we set it up so that she always had one of my books. At any time she could blame me and say that I needed my book back immediately (I'm a teacher) and she needed to rush off and bring it to me. I was also always ready to back her story, no matter what it was or how little warning she gave me.

We also made plans for her in case she needed to spend the night at our house -- that didn't happen, but we were ready with a bed, bedding, etc.

If she's really at the end of her rope, she's free to pursue separation (legal, or informal) and deal with everything that will bring with it. If a separation could start with a sleepover or short stay in your home, you could let her know that. It will help her think realistically about what leaving him really looks and feels like. (She might find that she's actually nowhere near the end of her rope.)

If she wants to stay *and* she wants to begin to 'own her no' she will need to work on her ability to withstand his usual reactions against her no. If he pesters, or yells, or is insulting, or sulky -- whatever he does to needle her away from 'no' and back into compliance... he's going to do that. She, like a parent with a yelling kid, needs to be able to hold her ground through whatever he dishes out. He'll be surprised that it doesn't work. Then they will both see what kind of a man he really is. He might pretend it never happened and try again another time, or he might escalate out of all proportion and become genuinely frightening and/or dangerous. If she takes this path, she will have to take this risk. You might be able to help her work through the possibilities.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, bolt. said:

I get that feeling, and I've been in that role.

One thing you can do is get behind her and help facilitate the lies she chooses to use in this difficult situation. In my situation, we set it up so that she always had one of my books. At any time she could blame me and say that I needed my book back immediately (I'm a teacher) and she needed to rush off and bring it to me. I was also always ready to back her story, no matter what it was or how little warning she gave me.

We also made plans for her in case she needed to spend the night at our house -- that didn't happen, but we were ready with a bed, bedding, etc.

If she's really at the end of her rope, she's free to pursue separation (legal, or informal) and deal with everything that will bring with it. If a separation could start with a sleepover or short stay in your home, you could let her know that. It will help her think realistically about what leaving him really looks and feels like. (She might find that she's actually nowhere near the end of her rope.)

If she wants to stay *and* she wants to begin to 'own her no' she will need to work on her ability to withstand his usual reactions against her no. If he pesters, or yells, or is insulting, or sulky -- whatever he does to needle her away from 'no' and back into compliance... he's going to do that. She, like a parent with a yelling kid, needs to be able to hold her ground through whatever he dishes out. He'll be surprised that it doesn't work. Then they will both see what kind of a man he really is. He might pretend it never happened and try again another time, or he might escalate out of all proportion and become genuinely frightening and/or dangerous. If she takes this path, she will have to take this risk. You might be able to help her work through the possibilities.

Good suggestions. 
Move thing that is about to happen is she has taken a job that is caring for a disabled person for 48-52 hours a week. So roughly 2 1/2 days a week. It is not difficult work. She gets paid for sleeping… it is just one on one care. The job will be 1 1/2 hours away….. which her husband is furious about. She can’t. Wait. To have time away from him. 
She can at least pay their mortgage and electric and keep the wolves at bay. She will probably lose her state low income I insurance which  is a huge deal and I have begged her to reconsider but she says someone  has to go something. 
 

And she told him if she comes home to  a dirty house she is moving in to their rv. 

[Catwoman]

17 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

She was going to therapy and it helped her. But basically I don’t think he will ever change. 

Then I guess the only decision left to be made is whether or not she can keep putting up with his behavior. 

But assuming that he has some good qualities, I wouldn't just throw a 35 year relationship out the window without doing everything possible to save it.  I think she has to get up her nerve and be completely open with him.

If she is seriously a complete chicken about it, maybe she could write it all out in a letter and give it to him. That wouldn't be my personal approach, but she has to communicate with him somehow.

I think she owes it to him to make sure he knows exactly how unhappy she is. She shouldn't just blindside him by saying she's leaving him (assuming she could get up the nerve to do that.) Given the choice between changing his ways and getting a divorce, you might be surprised at how willing he might be to try to work things out. 

I'm assuming that they still basically love each other. If not, that's something else entirely.

[Scarlett]

She directly asked me how I would deal with my husband….. I am left tongue tied because all I can think to say is I would never tolerate that crap. I do t know I want to say that to someone who is sick and broke and in a lo ge term marriage. 
I do tell her it is highly abusive on his part and messed up. 

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Good suggestions. 
Move thing that is about to happen is she has taken a job that is caring for a disabled person for 48-52 hours a week. So roughly 2 1/2 days a week. It is not difficult work. She gets paid for sleeping… it is just one on one care. The job will be 1 1/2 hours away….. which her husband is furious about. She can’t. Wait. To have time away from him. 
She can at least pay their mortgage and electric and keep the wolves at bay. She will probably lose her state low income I insurance which  is a huge deal and I have begged her to reconsider but she says someone  has to go something. 
 

And she told him if she comes home to  a dirty house she is moving in to their rv. 

This doesn't really sound like the meek and mild woman you have been describing, who can't work up the nerve to talk back to her husband. 

[bolt.]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Good suggestions. 
Move thing that is about to happen is she has taken a job that is caring for a disabled person for 48-52 hours a week. So roughly 2 1/2 days a week. It is not difficult work. She gets paid for sleeping… it is just one on one care. The job will be 1 1/2 hours away….. which her husband is furious about. She can’t. Wait. To have time away from him. 
She can at least pay their mortgage and electric and keep the wolves at bay. She will probably lose her state low income I insurance which  is a huge deal and I have begged her to reconsider but she says someone  has to go something. 
 

And she told him if she comes home to  a dirty house she is moving in to their rv. 

It sounds like she's got a great plan, and she's doing exactly what she wants to do in order to make the situation more acceptable for herself. It also shows that she is capable of taking actions, setting boundaries, and enduring his anger.

I'm not sure why you think she can't say no -- these are giant 'no's, and she has put actual action behind them.

Maybe she's just telling you that she's doing something hard, that she is finding it hard, and that she appreciates your supportive listening.

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

She directly asked me how I would deal with my husband….. I am left tongue tied because all I can think to say is I would never tolerate that crap. I do t know I want to say that to someone who is sick and broke and in a lo ge term marriage. 
I do tell her it is highly abusive on his part and messed up. 

The problem is that you never would have put up with it, and she has already put up with it for 35 years, so it's an apples and oranges situation.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

Then I guess the only decision left to be made is whether or not she can keep putting up with his behavior. 

But assuming that he has some good qualities, I wouldn't just throw a 35 year relationship out the window without doing everything possible to save it.  I think she has to get up her nerve and be completely open with him.

If she is seriously a complete chicken about it, maybe she could write it all out in a letter and give it to him. That wouldn't be my personal approach, but she has to communicate with him somehow.

I think she owes it to him to make sure he knows exactly how unhappy she is. She shouldn't just blindside him by saying she's leaving him (assuming she could get up the nerve to do that.) Given the choice between changing his ways and getting a divorce, you might be surprised at how willing he might be to try to work things out. 

I'm assuming that they still basically love each other. If not, that's something else entirely.

I definitely fee like they have basic love for ea h other. 
And as couples we have great fun together. He is fun and a good friend but I think a terrible husband. And mine is so awesome so the contrast is stark. 

[Scarlett]

11 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

This doesn't really sound like the meek and mild woman you have been describing, who can't work up the nerve to talk back to her husband. 

I don’t  think I described her as meek and mild. She is not. But she tries very hard to be a good wife and he makes it impossible. 

Edited June 7 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, bolt. said:

It sounds like she's got a great plan, and she's doing exactly what she wants to do in order to make the situation more acceptable for herself. It also shows that she is capable of taking actions, setting boundaries, and enduring his anger.

I'm not sure why you think she can't say no -- these are giant 'no's, and she has put actual action behind them.

Maybe she's just telling you that she's doing something hard, that she is finding it hard, and that she appreciates your supportive listening.

She does. She recently told me she has had 3 or 4 good friends in her life and I am the number one. 

[bolt.]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

She directly asked me how I would deal with my husband….. I am left tongue tied because all I can think to say is I would never tolerate that crap. I do t know I want to say that to someone who is sick and broke and in a lo ge term marriage. 
I do tell her it is highly abusive on his part and messed up. 

A lot of us who imagine we would "never put up with" certain things are coming from two places with that.

One is that we don't accept more minor things, so we tend to put a stop to relationships before anyone has a chance to mistreat us in anything more than a minor way: so we really don't know how it feels to be seriously mistreated or to feel personally reduced by having lived like that.

The other is, I have (in humility) learned that I'm not as resilient as I thought. I'm not resilient enough to sit through so much as a belittling talk from a church elder without finding it seriously traumatic for years. I've cried because I couldn't figure out how to make a gas pump work. I get very intense feelings at the slightest *hint* that my spouse's opinion of me is not 100% positive even for a moment. Honestly, if my spouse suddenly turned around and expressed actual aggression and fury towards me -- I'm sure I'd be reduced to quivering people pleasing just as quickly as the next woman. Open anger and belittling by one's loved ones does NOT feel proportional when it is happening in real time. There's not one of us who would find it easy to simply "not tolerate" it.

What I'm good at is knowing that people have 'theoretical power' in situations where their emotional and social brains are very seriously communicating that they absolutely do not. And I'm good at "not tolerating" what comes before this kind of profound mistreatment. I deserve credit for *avoiding* this kind of thing, not for being a superhero that has an impenetrable wall of resilience that keeps me safer than other women.

[Ginevra]

23 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Then I guess the only decision left to be made is whether or not she can keep putting up with his behavior. 

But assuming that he has some good qualities, I wouldn't just throw a 35 year relationship out the window without doing everything possible to save it.  I think she has to get up her nerve and be completely open with him.

It’s this. 
 

Life is full of choices. I got to a point in my marriage where the state things were in could not continue. We had our come to Jesus moment. Things got much better. But I had to decide I would not continue with certain things. I was prepared to walk. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Ginevra said:

It’s this. 
 

Life is full of choices. I got to a point in my marriage where the state things were in could not continue. We had our come to Jesus moment. Things got much better. But I had to decide I would not continue with certain things. I was prepared to walk. 

She says she is there too. It is hard to watch. 

[Rosie_0801]

The reason I'm not homeless is because my brother likes me enough and can afford to provide this very small, crappy house.

The reason I'm not starving is because some luck let me have a disability pension.

What we will and won't tolerate depends very much on whether not tolerating is going to give us more or take more away. How many of your needs do you think you can give up and still survive? 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

The reason I'm not homeless is because my brother likes me enough and can afford to provide this very small, crappy house.

The reason I'm not starving is because some luck let me have a disability pension.

What we will and won't tolerate depends very much on whether not tolerating is going to give us more or take more away. How many of your needs do you think you can give up and still survive? 

I mean great question. I am not discounting the Importance of  survival. 
She is the telling me she is done. I am not going around telling her what a horrible husband I think he is. 

[Catwoman]

33 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t  think I described her as meek and mild. She is not. But she tries very hard to be a good wife and he makes it impossible. 

I'm sorry! I misunderstood what you meant. I was thinking she was meek because you'd said she couldn't say no to him. 

It sounds like she and her husband may have different definitions of what constitutes being a "good wife."

[Ginevra]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I mean great question. I am not discounting the Importance of  survival. 
She is the telling me she is done. I am not going around telling her what a horrible husband I think he is. 

People do make marriage decisions based on financial realities all the time. It’s funny because I read a Reddit sub where people always talk about their marriage problems and the posters always say “divorce” or “therapy”. But when people are actually doing their lives, sometimes you’re just choosing what keeps a roof over your head for now. 

[Rosie_0801]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I mean great question. I am not discounting the Importance of  survival. 
She is the telling me she is done. I am not going around telling her what a horrible husband I think he is. 

I was speaking to the wider "why do people tolerate abuse" rather than your friend's specific situation. She doesn't have minor children, she has friends and she has money. I don't know why I would tolerate that crap under those circumstances. Maybe she hasn't had the emotional energy to do a stocktake and update her perspectives since those things have become true? I assume it is about her feelings as a moral person. Do moral people leave their cantankerous old husbands to rot by themselves? Big question. I wouldn't judge her, but it's not my judgment she'd be thinking about.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I'm sorry! I misunderstood what you meant. I was thinking she was meek because you'd said she couldn't say no to him. 

It sounds like she and her husband may have different definitions of what constitutes being a "good wife."

Sunday we were going to go to lunch together like normal. Several of us. I said let me ask ( friends husband) what he wants because he is so picky. I asked him and was like ‘oh I don’t care’. I says yes you do, you are literally the pickiest friend we have.

He would not  choose but he would have griped as he complained if we chose wrong. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

I was speaking to the wider "why do women tolerate abuse" rather than your friend's specific situation. She doesn't have minor children, she has friends and she has money. I don't know why I would tolerate that crap under those circumstances. Maybe she hasn't had the emotional energy to do a stocktake and update her perspectives since those things have become true? I assume it is about her feelings as a moral person. Do moral people leave their cantankerous old husbands to rot by themselves? Big question. I wouldn't judge her, but it's not my judgment she'd be thinking about.

That's an excellent point.

There are so many factors that it's virtually impossible to make any kind of sweeping generalizations about what anyone should or shouldn't do in a given situation.

And even when it seems from the outside like someone has all the support (both personal and financial) that they would need to feel comfortable about leaving a long term troubled marriage, the reality may be far different. Most people don't share all of their personal information with others.

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Sunday we were going to go to lunch together like normal. Several of us. I said let me ask ( friends husband) what he wants because he is so picky. I asked him and was like ‘oh I don’t care’. I says yes you do, you are literally the pickiest friend we have.

He would not  choose but he would have griped as he complained if we chose wrong. 

I hate it when people do that!

[Clarita]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

He would not  choose but he would have griped as he complained if we chose wrong. 

DH and I are so bad about this that for friends like that we usually will intentionally pick the food they don't like... Not that we stay friends with people like that for long. 

[Laura Corin]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

It wasn’t the weekend. It was a Wednesday afternoon. 
The trouble is he won’t let her breath. Has to constantly be in top of her. 
I can’t tell you how many times I invite her to lunch and she calls to ask if he can come. 

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear.

What I meant was - did she cook three times a day at weekends as a nice touch when he used to work? And is he now requiring that 7 days a week?

She doesn't feel that this is reasonable and he doesn't see what has changed.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear.

What I meant was - did she cook three times a day at weekends as a nice touch when he used to work? And is he now requiring that 7 days a week?

She doesn't feel that this is reasonable and he doesn't see what has changed.

No. Not really the deal. 

[fairfarmhand]

11 hours ago, Scarlett said:

No. Not really the deal. 

Then it probably means that he had a picture in his head of what retirement would look like and didn't consult her. This is pretty common with men. They really depend on their women and can't imagine that they would have to find their own companionship, keep themselves busy, and prepare their own food. A wife might be happy to do that on weekends and vacations but be aghast at the expectation that she's now going to have to do it 24/7.

Sounds like this couple needs a serious face to face conversation.

"I cannot be here around the clock and your grumpiness when I want to go and do things makes me feel controlled. I will check in with you but it's normal for couples to do their own things without one another at all times. You must learn to keep yourself busy and you need to get your own friends so you're not completely dependent on me. With food, I will prepare dinner. All other meals you can figure out on your own. I'm beginning to feel like your mother here. I need you to take responsibility for yourself. This attitude makes me want to run away and you're driving me away from you."

Whether or not she wants to do that is up to her. Sometimes, dealing with the bickering is better than having the serious conversation. But this would be the gist of what would need to be said.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

Then it probably means that he had a picture in his head of what retirement would look like and didn't consult her. This is pretty common with men. They really depend on their women and can't imagine that they would have to find their own companionship, keep themselves busy, and prepare their own food. A wife might be happy to do that on weekends and vacations but be aghast at the expectation that she's now going to have to do it 24/7.

Sounds like this couple needs a serious face to face conversation.

"I cannot be here around the clock and your grumpiness when I want to go and do things makes me feel controlled. I will check in with you but it's normal for couples to do their own things without one another at all times. You must learn to keep yourself busy and you need to get your own friends so you're not completely dependent on me. With food, I will prepare dinner. All other meals you can figure out on your own. I'm beginning to feel like your mother here. I need you to take responsibility for yourself. This attitude makes me want to run away and you're driving me away from you."

Whether or not she wants to do that is up to her. Sometimes, dealing with the bickering is better than having the serious conversation. But this would be the gist of what would need to be said.

One problem is he isn’t retired. And they are in dire straights. 
But even still he has been demanding of her when he was working. And she has said all the things to him. He just badgers her and like @bolt. said doing what he wants is the lesser of the troubles. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I’ve been known to say, “asked and answered” when badgered.  (It’s from courtroom tv shows—a typical objection to a lawyer badgering a witness.).  Or “I already answered that.  Was there anything else?”  Said with a cheerful tone shading into annoyance if it needs to be repeated, it’s a good way to bring attention to the repetitiveness of something like that.

[wintermom]

@Scarlett You seem to have a real heart for wanting to help others, and people open up to you. Have you ever considered taking the training to become a cousellor/therapist? Gaining those tools to help others without it impacting on your own mental health might be something to consider. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, wintermom said:

@Scarlett You seem to have a real heart for wanting to help others, and people open up to you. Have you ever considered taking the training to become a cousellor/therapist? Gaining those tools to help others without it impacting on your own mental health might be something to consider. 

Thank you. People do very VERY often open up to me. And those people tell me years later even how much I help them.  I don’t think my mental health is adversely affected. I know I vent here sometimes but that is just my posting style. I love to help people. But I am way told old for any formal training.

[wintermom]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Thank you. People do very VERY often open up to me. And those people tell me years later even how much I help them.  I don’t think my mental health is adversely affected. I know I vent here sometimes but that is just my posting style. I love to help people. But I am way told old for any formal training.

No, you aren't "way too old." And don't underestimate the mental health side, either. I get the vibe that you feel a sense of helplessness in some of your relationships when you see good friends struggling. It's real, and can be hard to turn off. Then it can impact your own relationships with close family members.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, wintermom said:

No, you aren't "way too old." And don't underestimate the mental health side, either. I get the vibe that you feel a sense of helplessness in some of your relationships when you see good friends struggling. It's real, and can be hard to turn off. Then it can impact your own relationships with close family members.

I may or may not have been described as a drama queen so sure I can see how that might come through in my posts. 

[DawnM]

17 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I may or may not have been described as a drama queen so sure I can see how that might come through in my posts. 

See, you are royalty!

[wintermom]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

See, you are royalty!

Wait, is that good or bad in the US? Maybe you need to hang out with Harry and Meghan!

[fairfarmhand]

On 6/8/2024 at 9:56 AM, Scarlett said:

One problem is he isn’t retired. And they are in dire straights. 
But even still he has been demanding of her when he was working. And she has said all the things to him. He just badgers her and like @bolt. said doing what he wants is the lesser of the troubles. 

It sounds like their marriage is dying then. She can’t live like that forever.

[Innisfree]

On 6/8/2024 at 10:56 AM, Scarlett said:

And she has said all the things to him. He just badgers her and like @bolt. said doing what he wants is the lesser of the troubles. 

If she wants things to change, she needs to take the trouble to change this pattern.

When you’re dealing with behavioral challenges in kids, in ABA, you’re told that when you stop responding to the kid’s behavior in the way they expect, they’ll increase their behaviors. When you get close to extinguishing the behavior, it can hit a peak. The behavior has always worked for them before, so they try really hard to make it keep working. You have to just ignore the behavior and keep holding the line.

Adults aren’t any different. This guy is going to make his wife’s life as uncomfortable as possible before he changes his behavior. If she wants change, she has to insist on it, and continue insisting even when he is obnoxious. She needs to ignore his behavior and do what she wants to do.

If she’s not safe pushing that hard, that’s a separate issue needing different responses. But if he’s just continuing to be a jerk, and she’s not willing to enforce change, then she gets the stasis she’s choosing.

[wintermom]

nm

Edited June 10 by wintermom

[SKL]

TBH I've been known to complain to others about people to get sympathy, just hitting on the bad stuff, leaving out the good stuff, and having no intention of taking radical measures to end the problem.  IRL I stopped doing this a long time ago, but some people don't stop this.  😛 

Somebody probably already said this, but have you asked your friend whether she wants (a) a listening ear or (b) advice / help to change things?

[Scarlett]

9 hours ago, SKL said:

TBH I've been known to complain to others about people to get sympathy, just hitting on the bad stuff, leaving out the good stuff, and having no intention of taking radical measures to end the problem.  IRL I stopped doing this a long time ago, but some people don't stop this.  😛 

Somebody probably already said this, but have you asked your friend whether she wants (a) a listening ear or (b) advice / help to change things?

She tells me. She asks me directly what I would do in her shoes. I have known her a long time…. She is getting to her limit. 

[Clarita]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

She tells me. She asks me directly what I would do in her shoes. I have known her a long time…. She is getting to her limit. 

Personally, I'd tell her she needs to decide where the boundary of what she can tolerate or is willing to tolerate is. Her husband isn't going to be a different person overnight and none of us have a magic bullet way of telling him no where he's just going to accept it without any sort of work. Questions for her would be does she even care enough or want to work on "retraining" him at all, and if she does then to what extent? 

Quite frankly most of us aren't married to Mr. Perfect either. There are things that our spouses do that could be improved, but we tolerate and deal with it because we can deal with it so we don't need to (or want to) work on retraining our spouses. There may have been or are other things that our spouses do that we can't tolerate and we expend energy to let our spouses know that these things bug us and train them to be better. Train isn't really the right word but we put some sort of work into changing their behavior. 

[Scarlett]

6 hours ago, Clarita said:

Personally, I'd tell her she needs to decide where the boundary of what she can tolerate or is willing to tolerate is. Her husband isn't going to be a different person overnight and none of us have a magic bullet way of telling him no where he's just going to accept it without any sort of work. Questions for her would be does she even care enough or want to work on "retraining" him at all, and if she does then to what extent? 

Quite frankly most of us aren't married to Mr. Perfect either. There are things that our spouses do that could be improved, but we tolerate and deal with it because we can deal with it so we don't need to (or want to) work on retraining our spouses. There may have been or are other things that our spouses do that we can't tolerate and we expend energy to let our spouses know that these things bug us and train them to be better. Train isn't really the right word but we put some sort of work into changing their behavior. 

Yes, that is some of what I did tell her. I just feel terrible for her. 

[Ting Tang]

I am an imperfect wife in many ways, but in some, I am in this scenario.  I think a lot has to do with money.  If women like us had enough money, I doubt we would put up with the things that we do.  My husband doesn't demand a perfect home or three square meals, but in many ways I guess I fall short and he treats me more as a child.  i.e. I cannot post on certain forums (lol) or need to be monitored cleaning up dog throw up the correct way off the tile (yep).  

Yesterday, the kids and I had sushi at the mall.  $19 for 5 of us, and I could tell he was upset when he found out. We rarely ever eat out as a family.  Oh, except for the vacation once a year that he and his family chose for me and for us. 

It's depressing. There isn't anything that can be done unless she leaves.  I doubt anyone can change at this age.  You get what you get when you get married.

It's too big of a change to make for this woman's husband.

She can only change herself and where she is.

Just my two cents. 

 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I am an imperfect wife in many ways, but in some, I am in this scenario.  I think a lot has to do with money.  If women like us had enough money, I doubt we would put up with the things that we do.  My husband doesn't demand a perfect home or three square meals, but in many ways I guess I fall short and he treats me more as a child.  i.e. I cannot post on certain forums (lol) or need to be monitored cleaning up dog throw up the correct way off the tile (yep).  

Yesterday, the kids and I had sushi at the mall.  $19 for 5 of us, and I could tell he was upset when he found out. We rarely ever eat out as a family.  Oh, except for the vacation once a year that he and his family chose for me and for us. 

It's depressing. There isn't anything that can be done unless she leaves.  I doubt anyone can change at this age.  You get what you get when you get married.

It's too big of a change to make for this woman's husband.

She can only change herself and where she is.

Just my two cents. 

 

This breaks my heart for you. 
 

As for my friend….honestly the lack of money is driving her to the breaking point. She left last night to drive an hour and  a half for a new job she is starting. The orientation is this week. Then for  at least 3 months she will have an insane shift schedule. They have promised her after that she will have one client to care for and she will work roughly 48 hours straight one on one. So the work will be in the same town where their oldest son and DIL and dgs live. SHE (not my Dh) called her husband and told him to bring her their camper so she can stay in it as needed ( on their dibs property) during this crazy time. She is very adamant that he is NOT coming to stay with her. He needs to stay home and do any jobs that come in. And take care of the dog. But mostly to feel the discomfort of their situation. 

Edited June 12 by Scarlett
She called her husband. My Dh did not call him.

[Green Bean]

nm.

Edited June 12 by Green Bean

[Eos]

13 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

My husband doesn't demand a perfect home or three square meals, but in many ways I guess I fall short and he treats me more as a child.  i.e. I cannot post on certain forums (lol) or need to be monitored cleaning up dog throw up the correct way off the tile (yep). 

This also breaks my heart for you, and for your children. I'm so sorry that this is what your sons and daughters are learning is the right way to be an adult. 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Eos said:

This also breaks my heart for you, and for your children. I'm so sorry that this is what your sons and daughters are learning is the right way to be an adult. 

Good point.  Which reminds me how I handled things when I was still married to my first husband/ my son’s father.  I did not sugar coat his dad’s bad bad behavior.  I tried to walk a line of seeing and discussing the good in now xh while also explaining to ds that the way his dad acted about some things was not ok.  I hope @Ting Tang is able to do something like that.  

[marbel]

39 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Good point.  Which reminds me how I handled things when I was still married to my first husband/ my son’s father.  I did not sugar coat his dad’s bad bad behavior.  I tried to walk a line of seeing and discussing the good in now xh while also explaining to ds that the way his dad acted about some things was not ok.  I hope @Ting Tang is able to do something like that.  

I am pretty open with my kids about my husband's and my own failings. Even in a good marriage, there are things that could be done better. 

This is not quite the same thing, but I've explained to my son that his dad/my husband has a happy 1950s-style housewife/homemaker (me), but he is not to expect the same if/when he is ever married. (And so yes, I do Dad's laundry but you are doing  your own and if you are married, don't expect her to do it --> just as an example.) I apologize when I blow up over something stupid but explain why it made me mad. 

I don't mean to minimize serious issues. Just adding on that it's good to be honest with our kids about human behavior. 

Edited June 12 by marbel