Off Topic- Co Ops

[Teach05]

I remember SWB saying years ago that co-ops were more trouble than they’re worth. (I’m paraphrasing HARD here, but that was the gist I got.) 

It’s hitting me now that we are in one that she was on to something. My kids like it. Oldest loves it.  I HATE it.  It is just the worst.  There’s no time for me to make mom friends, I have to plan activities (a LOT of busywork), and it cuts so much time out of one of our days.  I’m trying to research other options, but how do you decide on co-op vs not?  To be clear- we have no real family involvement for the kids and DH and I have always been sort of to ourselves, so I’ve had to work really hard to be mindful of making space for friendships.  It’s getting harder the older the kids get. I probably need to shut up and keep my head down with the co-op, but I just totally dread it every single week. 
 

Any advice?

[8filltheheart]

Co-ops are a hard NO for me.  They are time sucks with very little academic value.  We turn to ECs for friendships bc solid time for learning for my kids requires being at home.  Too much out of house time means everything gets sidetracked and poorer quality output.  

[Clarita]

I can't see us joining a co-op where I have to teach during the time. 

For us we found a homeschool charter school that has an in-person day where paid staff and people who volunteer teach the kids for half a day. It still uses up one school day out of our week, but it gives my students a chance to have fun and collaborate with others and interact with an adult with different interests than mine. So I decided I didn't need a co-op.

If I didn't have this I would agree with @8filltheheart I would just sign my kids up for extra-curricular activities, where I'm guaranteed an instructor who has passion and expertise on the topic. Even if their teaching isn't the best or better than mine, at least I get a break. 

 

[freesia]

My kids needed them to make and see friends. They also needed us to be out of the house. The benefited from the other parents styles and the group classes. We did it for their mental health. Other kids may be different. Some families may have thriving social lives without co-op. But I haven’t seen them. ( Before I get flamed—I do believe that some of you are part of that thriving group. I just haven’t met you irl.)

it can take time to make mom friends. The more you volunteer to help with the things, the faster it will go. Working together can build bonds. 

[desertflower]

It depends on what you want out of the co-op.  I can definitely relate.

My kids were in one when they were elementary aged.  It did take a lot of time.  Not sure if I regret it. 

They were not in a co-op during the pandemic and for a couple of years after that.  We did get a lot done!

My kids are in one this school year.  It's beneficial because my older two kids get the lab portion done there (for cheap!) and my oldest and youngest made friends there.  So, I see it as beneficial at this stage in their lives. 

[Ellie]

We homeschooled before co-ops were a thing. By the time they became a thing, my dc were taking classes at the community college for college credit, so no co-op for us.

What I saw among those I knew who were in co-ops did not inspire me. Too much time out of the house, age-segregated "classrooms" = not much better than school, burn out.

Support groups, yes; co-ops, no.

[LauraClark]

We did a co-op one year. We didn't make any friends, which was the only reason we joined. The following year I opened my house up and taught an art class. It was a subject that was easy to put off without that weekly accountability and it provided a weekly social opportunity for my kids. That has been a great fit for us. If we didn't have that, there are a couple of homeschool groups that do field trips and weekly playground meet ups that we would probably join. I've also had to kind of make peace with the fact that my kids might make friends somewhere but I might not-I have to suck it up and be ok with that.

[Shoeless]

Not a fan of co-ops based on what I've seen around here. They are all another person's vision of "The Perfect School".  Lots of effort for little return. 

If you hate it so much, can your kids make friends in other places? Is there a local play-date/park day group you could join? That's where both I and my son made friends, (until lockdown blew the whole thing apart).

 

 

 

[Teach05]

I’m debating trying to move over to a local Wild and Free group, but again- so not my thing. The co op we are currently in has a massive waitlist and so if we would drop we wouldn’t get back in, so it’s one of those things I need to be super sure about. My oldest loves it, so I’m feeling the guilt hard.

[Shoeless]

29 minutes ago, Teach05 said:

I’m debating trying to move over to a local Wild and Free group, but again- so not my thing. The co op we are currently in has a massive waitlist and so if we would drop we wouldn’t get back in, so it’s one of those things I need to be super sure about. My oldest loves it, so I’m feeling the guilt hard.

What exactly do you hate about the co-op? Be really specific. Can you change any part of what you hate to make it more tolerable for you?

Are the friendship opportunities for you or for the kids? 

How old are your kids? What other opportunities do you have for the kids to make friends? (Scouts, 4H, art classes, park days, library events, chess club?)

[Teach05]

1 hour ago, Shoeless said:

What exactly do you hate about the co-op? Be really specific. Can you change any part of what you hate to make it more tolerable for you?

Are the friendship opportunities for you or for the kids? 

How old are your kids? What other opportunities do you have for the kids to make friends? (Scouts, 4H, art classes, park days, library events, chess club?)

A few things-

The class I’ve been assigned is a lot of prep work.

Some interpersonal drama with teachers

I don’t feel the classes are great.

 

We tried Scouts and that wasn’t for us. 4H is really disorganized in our area. Our current church doesn’t offer anything for kids. So that’s where I thought of Wild and Free with park days. That said- I know a few people in it have said it’s hard to make friends because participation is so random and the group so large. 

[cintinative]

2 hours ago, Teach05 said:

A few things-

The class I’ve been assigned is a lot of prep work.

 

Did you not have a choice about which class to teach? That is interesting. 

We were in a co-op for over eight years and other than my first year when I was filling a spot just to get in, I always had a choice about what I taught. Generally it was a class I came up with.

We left when the co-op moved to a different location and also because the general direction of the co-op wasn't a fit for us in high school.  They were moving toward an enrichment only model with less weeks which meant we couldn't get academic boxes checked off in high school. We couldn't afford to be gone six hours and not get certain courses done. 

[Farrar]

They just vary a lot. I think anyone giving a blanket answer about co-ops has only seen one or two sorts of co-ops.

When my kids were small, we had a small family, rotating house co-op that was beautiful. It lasted in various forms for about nine years. When my kid was home from college this weekend, he saw two of his besties from back then. They're in college in different places. One went to a b&m school for high school. But they're still friends and it's so sweet. I value that time. It was just once a week and I didn't try to make it do anything but be for social time and enrichment, but those things were SO important.

For various reasons, we didn't co-op high school much, but I have seen it work for a lot of families. I think it depends on the co-op and its structure. I think they work better when they're clubs, arts, technology, academic electives, and academic support as opposed to core academics. Co-ops where young kids can do nature class and math games class and messy art class and older kids can do coding or put on a play together tend to be really useful academically for a wide range of families. 

One of my biggest frustrations with homeschool families is that many turn their noses up at social opportunities because they're better than them or don't like the "rigor" of the academics, then bemoan that they have depressed kids who don't have social connections. Not all trade offs are worth it and some co-ops are toxic or expensive or exclusionary. So I'm not saying everyone should suck it up and find a good co-op. Some kids have other social opportunities and some people don't have access to a half decent co-op. But also, they can serve a role. And social time is super, super important for kid mental health. Like, if I had kids who absolutely adored a co-op, I'd find a way to make it work.

[ScoutTN]

We didn’t need it when my kids were young. We had a solid group of homeschool friends  and acquaintances to do field trips and park days with. With Sunday and midweek church, scouting organizations, music lessons, and occasionally sports, my kids had enough during elementary years.

I wasn’t about to waste a school day every week on stuff we didn’t need, that I could teach better, or that had many of the inherent weaknesses of school.

Late middle school and high school we did some classes at a tutorial. Drop off, pay tuition - not a co-op. This was good. We chose courses carefully and Dd had excellent teachers. The community was excellent and Dd enjoyed it thoroughly. More schooly than what I had originally intended, but it was a good fit for that kid at that time.

Edited November 29, 2023 by ScoutTN

[kirstenhill]

We've done a lot of co-ops over the years, starting when oldest was in preschool (she's in college now, and I'm currently just homeschooling my youngest, who is 12).  Being assigned to teach a class you didn't choose sounds rough.  I was in some co-ops where I just had to volunteer (class monitor/assistant), and when I did teach I always chose the subject. 

I think co-ops were especially great for my older two kids who are neurotypical.  Also, when my older two kids were early elementary age it was the hardest to find extracurricular activities that worked for us due to nap/bedtime schedules for the younger ones or the fact that some activities were a pain to drag babies/toddlers along to.   So co-op filled a social need.

But, my younger two didn't "fit" in a co-op as well.  We nearly got kicked out of one when my 3rd kid was in early elementary because his at-that-point unmedicated ADHD was just more than other parents were willing to put up with.  My youngest is dyslexic and as soon as co-op classes required any kind of academic activity, he couldn't keep up and parent teachers weren't necessarily willing to accommodate.

Things that worked better, once my younger kids' needs were a factor - finding one other family to go through a fun curriculum together that included writing and science experiments (we met at co-op and were both ready to bolt),  teaching a small class in my own home that met my kids' needs (I advertised in a local facebook group), and starting a casual club for something we enjoy doing (in our case, a board game club).

I think it's good to identify what needs you are looking to meet - the type of activity you create or join might be different depending on if you are more looking to meet kids social needs, or if what you need is mom friends.  If you need mom friends, you could advertise a book club for homeschool moms in your local Facebook group or (however people network in your area), but if it is a social need for your kids, you could start a club or class and invite others to participate. 

 

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

They just vary a lot. I think anyone giving a blanket answer about co-ops has only seen one or two sorts of co-ops.

When my kids were small, we had a small family, rotating house co-op that was beautiful. It lasted in various forms for about nine years. When my kid was home from college this weekend, he saw two of his besties from back then. They're in college in different places. One went to a b&m school for high school. But they're still friends and it's so sweet. I value that time. It was just once a week and I didn't try to make it do anything but be for social time and enrichment, but those things were SO important.

For various reasons, we didn't co-op high school much, but I have seen it work for a lot of families. I think it depends on the co-op and its structure. I think they work better when they're clubs, arts, technology, academic electives, and academic support as opposed to core academics. Co-ops where young kids can do nature class and math games class and messy art class and older kids can do coding or put on a play together tend to be really useful academically for a wide range of families. 

One of my biggest frustrations with homeschool families is that many turn their noses up at social opportunities because they're better than them or don't like the "rigor" of the academics, then bemoan that they have depressed kids who don't have social connections. Not all trade offs are worth it and some co-ops are toxic or expensive or exclusionary. So I'm not saying everyone should suck it up and find a good co-op. Some kids have other social opportunities and some people don't have access to a half decent co-op. But also, they can serve a role. And social time is super, super important for kid mental health. Like, if I had kids who absolutely adored a co-op, I'd find a way to make it work.

I have never seen an actual co-op that functioned that way nor offered anything close to quality courses/opportunities.  Everything has been very much at the amateur, low-quality level.

Depending on where you live, those types of opportunties may be offered at the community level or for pay with no parental teaching necessary.  My kids are involved in choir with a retired PhD music teacher who opened up a class to homeschoolers. (My 2 dds and my my granddaughter whom I homeschool were all accepted to All-State Choir this yr.)  My kids are involved or have been involved in community-level orchestra, theater, art.  They take private voice lessons with a teacher who had open mic nights to create community.  She also offers musical theater workshops.  My kids are also actively involved in our church, so there is a great community there.  

We are blessed with a wonderful circle of homeschool friends.  We would not remain friends if we were involved in homeschooling together.  🤣😂🤣None of us share similar homeschooling views/values.  There are only 2 moms whom I am even willing to discuss homeschooling wtih.  Strong personalities with very different values/goals don't mix well when it comes to curriculum selections/courses/workload.  (I bite my tongue when they are talking about how hard their kids' schedules are when their courses are things like TT math.)  But, I am a dinosaur who started homeschooling and continues to homeschool precisely bc I want to do things my way.  I will never surrender those reins.  It is why I am looking at my 30th yr of homeschooling in 24.

 

[Farrar]

54 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

I have never seen an actual co-op that functioned that way nor offered anything close to quality courses/opportunities.  Everything has been very much at the amateur, low-quality level.

There are a ton like this around me. If I suddenly had middle school kids again, I can think of six options we could consider. None are super close, so that would be our major sacrifice, but all would be doable if I made it work. Some are co-ops, others are co-ops/tutorials - as in, run by homeschool parents, but drop off with some hired teachers and some parents (or, there's one near me that hires mostly young grad students in the subjects, which is a cool model). Many also offer core academics that are, in most cases, not that great. But it's easy enough to choose 3D printing and improv instead of biology and algebra. Or to incorporate "book club" and "mental math tricks" into an overall approach without trying to rely on it as your entire English or math. Are they amazing quality instruction where every kid sits silently and the teacher has a masters in the subject? Lol, no. A few are, sure, but there are a lot of messy whatever classes too. But this is what I mean about turning a nose up at things like this. If a kid is happy and satisfied without a community like this, great. You can afford to be a snob and more power to you for it. But I have met so many kids - especially teens and tweens - struggling with their mental health in part because they have few social connections. And in at least some of those cases, there's an option like these nearby and the parent won't consider it. And when it boils down to it, do you need a doctorate to let kids play with Arduinos or paint or take a nature walk? Do the benefits of being with other humans outweigh the fact that the kids aren't striving for some rigorous academic level all the time? Especially if you're there once a week and you can prioritize core academics on other days?

Again, all this is acknowledging that some people don't have things like this, and some are full of major toxicity so they're not an option. 

But there's no point in raising a kid who had tip top academics all the way through but became miserable because they didn't have friends. How we make connections with people is really important and I think too many people downplay it in homeschooling. 

[cintinative]

I totally see what @Farrar is saying about the friendships being important. One issue we came up against is that starting in junior high, kids started leaving co-op for local university model schools or public schools. So while the co-op was an important source of friends for a long time, many of those friends left and went elsewhere once we hit junior high. This was another factor in us not returning to co-op in high school.

It's interesting because when we first started in co-op there were good academic classes offered in junior high and high school. Lawyers teaching government and debate, chemists teaching Chemistry, Spanish teachers teaching Spanish, etc.  It just changed a lot from there. Mostly these moms planned to teach the class to their own kids and just decided to open it up to the co-op.  Those were generally great classes.  But things changed over time, the population of moms changed as they sent their kids to public schools or private schools, etc.  and as the population of students changed, so did the general tenor of the co-op.  It moved from a more academic focus in the upper grades to a more enrichment focus.

I guess what I am saying is that just as previous posters have said that co-ops vary a lot, it is also true that a single co-op can change over time.  It's just the nature of it I guess.

[8filltheheart]

55 minutes ago, Farrar said:

There are a ton like this around me. If I suddenly had middle school kids again, I can think of six options we could consider. None are super close, so that would be our major sacrifice, but all would be doable if I made it work. Some are co-ops, others are co-ops/tutorials - as in, run by homeschool parents, but drop off with some hired teachers and some parents (or, there's one near me that hires mostly young grad students in the subjects, which is a cool model). Many also offer core academics that are, in most cases, not that great. But it's easy enough to choose 3D printing and improv instead of biology and algebra. Or to incorporate "book club" and "mental math tricks" into an overall approach without trying to rely on it as your entire English or math. Are they amazing quality instruction where every kid sits silently and the teacher has a masters in the subject? Lol, no. A few are, sure, but there are a lot of messy whatever classes too. But this is what I mean about turning a nose up at things like this. If a kid is happy and satisfied without a community like this, great. You can afford to be a snob and more power to you for it. But I have met so many kids - especially teens and tweens - struggling with their mental health in part because they have few social connections. And in at least some of those cases, there's an option like these nearby and the parent won't consider it. And when it boils down to it, do you need a doctorate to let kids play with Arduinos or paint or take a nature walk? Do the benefits of being with other humans outweigh the fact that the kids aren't striving for some rigorous academic level all the time? Especially if you're there once a week and you can prioritize core academics on other days?

Again, all this is acknowledging that some people don't have things like this, and some are full of major toxicity so they're not an option. 

But there's no point in raising a kid who had tip top academics all the way through but became miserable because they didn't have friends. How we make connections with people is really important and I think too many people downplay it in homeschooling. 

Do you not have community-level opportunities?  No community theater?  No youth sports leagues? (Upwards, I9 sports, county leagues, community track/running clubs??) No art centers?  No museums/gardens/historical sites offering classes? Only when we lived very rurally were there no real community options (though even there we did find a community children's choir).  I guess I fail to see if there are options why they need to be homeschool co-op type ones.  I see your post as painting too broad a brush in the other direction.  In most places there is wide range of ways to form social networks without having to tie yourself to homeschool co-ops.

[Farrar]

12 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

Do you not have community-level opportunities?  No community theater?  No youth sports leagues? (Upwards, I9 sports, county leagues, community track/running clubs??) No art centers?  No museums/gardens/historical sites offering classes? Only when we lived very rurally were there no real community options (though even there we did find a community children's choir).  I guess I fail to see if there are options why they need to be homeschool co-op type ones.  I see your post as painting too broad a brush in the other direction.  In most places there is wide range of ways to form social networks without having to tie yourself to homeschool co-ops.

We do. And my kids found their friendships that way once they were in high school and our tiny 5 family co-op ended. But I have seen other kids NOT find friendships that way, especially in middle and high school. And not find quality interactions available to them in short term classes. Also, if your kid doesn't do certain things that are longer term commitments, then sometimes those things add up in cost and are significantly more expensive than a weekly co-op/tutorial. Or sometimes those things are all public school kids who simply aren't interested in expanding their social circles. They're there for the thing, not to make extra friends. I think it's incredibly hard to go to a museum class for a month one time and emerge with a best bud who you can go visit and share your secrets with and talk about your life to. 

ETA: I'm trying to be clear and have said a bunch of times that not everyone needs a co-op. Sometimes there are plenty of other things. And some co-ops genuinely are rotten. So I'm not saying everyone needs a co-op. But some people really do and should consider it. So I'm definitely not trying to paint the brush the other way. I'm saying, some people turn their noses up and say never ever, they're all horrible. And I'm saying, that's unfair, especially with the mental health crisis I see young people in right now.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Farrar

[freesia]

My kids were involved in scouts, but that never led to friends. One did theater and had friends there, but it didn’t translate to outside activities. One did travel soccer and only started to make friends after two years. I can go on. We did pull out if co-op at one point, but found another one bc that’s where they connected with other people who wanted friends. Our social life had also gotten to be a tight group and when there was drama and bullying by a “popular” boy, my kids were left mostly by the wayside. Having other options at co-op was important. My kids are excellent scholars and do a lot of rigorous classes and have the scholarships and test scores to show for it. I had been one of the parents who felt  I didn’t need co-op but my kids really did. I’m not saying everyone needs to do co-op but it can be very important for some kids. Farrar is dead on with how I feel. We both are/were east coast, so maybe other places are different. 

[freesia]

And with regard to SWB, when she just had her youngest at home, she put her in high school (for at least a year or two.) So, she solved the social question a different way eventually. 

[ScoutTN]

We know several families who have done small (3-5 families) co-ops over a period of many years. Very similar to what Farrar described. Because the families had enough like-mindedness, their co-ops worked.

[Ellie]

12 hours ago, Teach05 said:

We tried Scouts and that wasn’t for us. 4H is really disorganized in our area. Our current church doesn’t offer anything for kids. So that’s where I thought of Wild and Free with park days. That said- I know a few people in it have said it’s hard to make friends because participation is so random and the group so large. 

Is Wild and Free a co-op or a support group?

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, Ellie said:

13 hours ago, Teach05 said:

We tried Scouts and that wasn’t for us. 4H is really disorganized in our area. Our current church doesn’t offer anything for kids. So that’s where I thought of Wild and Free with park days. That said- I know a few people in it have said it’s hard to make friends because participation is so random and the group so large. 

Is Wild and Free a co-op or a support group?

I thought it was more of a park day/field trip thing. I didn't think there were actual classes involved.

[Not_a_Number]

I think groups can really vary. 

I run a homeschool social group with a long afternoon playdate once a week and lots of high quality enrichment Zoom classes on other days. (They are small and a la carte -- everyone takes what they want.) This has worked really well for us for maintaining connections for my older girl and I plan to do the same with my younger girl if she's interested. 

I've also seen really crappy co-ops with totally worthless academics and pods with classes the kids don't even want to be in. 

I wouldn't write every co-op off unless there are really very limited options. (And I think some established groups don't advertise much, so keeping an eye out for quality stuff is key.) 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Not_a_Number

[Shoeless]

18 hours ago, Teach05 said:

A few things-

The class I’ve been assigned is a lot of prep work.

Some interpersonal drama with teachers

I don’t feel the classes are great.

 

We tried Scouts and that wasn’t for us. 4H is really disorganized in our area. Our current church doesn’t offer anything for kids. So that’s where I thought of Wild and Free with park days. That said- I know a few people in it have said it’s hard to make friends because participation is so random and the group so large. 

When we were in a co-op, I resigned myself to thinking of the classes as "activities" rather than real learning opportunities.  I adjusted my expectations way, way down and never relied on co-op for teaching anything.  My standards are different than the norm for homeschoolers around me. 

In my case, co-op was a poor fit because it was very cliquey with too many mean-girl moms.  My kid was also not very excited about it. He was perfectly happy noodling around the park with random kids, but I felt like co-ops were the thing we "should do" because everyone else was doing them and giving me dire warnings about socialization if we did not. 

That being said, if your kids really like co-op and have friends there, I'd find a way to reframe how you view this experience and see what you can cut from your obligations to the co-op. Do you have to teach through the end of the school year or the end of this semester? Can you teach a different class? 

[Shoeless]

What exactly is a homeschool support group? 

I know what park days and field trip groups are about. I know what co-ops and day schools offer. But I have no idea what a homeschool support group looks like. Most of the moms I met around here didn't feel like they needed support in how to teach something; they were looking for friend-making opportunities for themselves and their kids. 

[Ellie]

45 minutes ago, Shoeless said:

What exactly is a homeschool support group? 

I know what park days and field trip groups are about. I know what co-ops and day schools offer. But I have no idea what a homeschool support group looks like. Most of the moms I met around here didn't feel like they needed support in how to teach something; they were looking for friend-making opportunities for themselves and their kids. 

A support group offers the opportunity for the parents as well as the children to socialize with other homeschooling parents, to discuss the homeschooling stuff that non-homeschoolers just don't get, like the difference between spiral and mastery math books, or how to keep up with the laundry when you're tryna teach the kids, to cry on someone's shoulder who won't tell you to put the kids in school if you're not happy. You know...support. It might look like a park day or a field trip (support groups do field trips; field trip "groups" are just specialized support groups), or a Moms' NIght Out, but it's all about the support. IOW, friend-making opportunities. I'm gobsmacked that y'all don't think of support groups for that.

In Southern California, park days became the support groups. FYI.

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Ellie said:

A support group offers the opportunity for the parents as well as the children to socialize with other homeschooling parents, to discuss the homeschooling stuff that non-homeschoolers just don't get, like the difference between spiral and mastery math books, or how to keep up with the laundry when you're tryna teach the kids, to cry on someone's shoulder who won't tell you to put the kids in school if you're not happy. You know...support. It might look like a park day or a field trip (support groups do field trips; field trip "groups" are just specialized support groups), or a Moms' NIght Out, but it's all about the support. IOW, friend-making opportunities. I'm gobsmacked that y'all don't think of support groups for that.

In Southern California, park days became the support groups. FYI.

Around here, the park day groups meet your definition of "support group".  When I ran the local group, we had mom's night out, occasional field trips, weekly park days. A smaller group of us also hosted something closer to a "co-op": twice a month meetings where the kids worked on an activity together (baking, art, little engineering projects, for example).  We'd also get together for kid birthday parties and holiday parties. We had a nerf war and field day once, too.  Not much convo about curriculum because people around here don't really care about spiral vs mastery or anything academic. Around here, the mindset is "Anything, including doing nothing, is better than public school". 🤷‍♀️

There are Field-Trip-Only groups where all you do is go on a field trip once a month. I never participated in those groups because I would rather go to museums, industry tours, etc. by myself. 

Co-ops around here seem to mean either drop-off or parent-participation required. Quality varies a LOT. We took some classes a la carte from one co-op, and it was pretty fun because the classes were "enrichment" and not core classes, but it was an hour drive for me, and I just couldn't do it anymore.  We took classes at another co-op (45 minutes in the opposite direction), and it was a cliquish disappointment. 

Day schools are one day, drop off programs with paid teachers. The kids have homework, projects, required reading. There's usually a lunch break between classes so the kids can socialize.  The quality seems higher for these classes than for co-ops. 

The people I have seen around here that specifically ask for "support groups" are typically having some sort of legal problem with the district, a soon-to-be-ex spouse that wants the kids in public school, or they've got special needs kids and a frustrating experience with their medical provider.  They are looking for advice on really complicated situations and generally aren't interested in coming out to socialize. (No clue why not; it's just a pattern I noticed). 

[Shoeless]

I have also had people ask for "more support" in the local fb group, meaning, they wanted to read positive, encouraging blog-style posts about homeschooling in our community. They didn't want to feel pressured to come out to any sort of homeschool event, field trip, or park day.  They very specifically said they had their family and church for socializing. They just wanted to read about what other successful homeschoolers were doing in the area, and I was like "Yeah, I'm not able to offer that. Please let me know if you change your mind about attending the Valentine's Day party". 

I actually had an argument with a co-admin about these requests.  They felt that letting other moms from all over the state lurk was simply part of "community outreach", and I was like no. This is weird.  

[Eos]

4 hours ago, Shoeless said:

When we were in a co-op, I resigned myself to thinking of the classes as "activities" rather than real learning opportunities.  I adjusted my expectations way, way down and never relied on co-op for teaching anything.  My standards are different than the norm for homeschoolers around me. 

In my case, co-op was a poor fit because it was very cliquey with too many mean-girl moms.  My kid was also not very excited about it. He was perfectly happy noodling around the park with random kids, but I felt like co-ops were the thing we "should do"

I found this with youngest.  Olders never did any co-op things, and maybe they didn't exist here.  They socialized and were lonely by turns and did many of the outside activities mentioned by 8, just not as a group of kids. The most organized multi-family activities we did involved creating our own Hogwarts complete with costumes, feasts, and classes, lol.

Youngest was a caboose and an extrovert so I thought I "should" have her in with a group that formed when she was around 10.  I know I've said here it was horrible, traumatic for both of us.  Did they learn rigorous stuff?  Yes, a bit, some very advanced Shakespeare and astronomy.  Were the kids school-ified and bullying?  Also yes.

I wonder if it what you're looking for in terms of mom friends could be filtered by age and/or age of kids.  The moms of the kids in this group had their firsts and younger in the group whereas my dd was a youngest with siblings in college and beyond.  I was older with a very different approach to parenting, life, and homeschooling.  I had known all of the women involved before the group formed and they weren't my friends before, just then I had to spend a bunch of time with them.  

[8filltheheart]

On 11/27/2023 at 4:29 AM, Teach05 said:

Our current church doesn’t offer anything for kids.  

Most of our kids' really close friends are from our church or from the larger Catholic community ar large. The kids network together and join things as a group (theater, choir, ballroom dancing, running clubs, dance, fencing, etc).  But, at church itself, there arent many direct social opportunities established by the church itself. We, as in the moms, have created them.....ice cream socials, park days, pizza parties, board game days. 

It only takes a couple of core people to show up to get things started and growing. Now they do all sorts of just random spontaneous get-togethers.  There are few Catholics in our area, so we are spread out over a distance of 45 mins drive. Sometimes we take turns driving to the opposite side of town. Sometimes we meet in centralized locations.

Anyway, I wanted to mention that starting with your church community as an outreach might surprise you in how many want to join in.

[EmilyGF]

I'm not sure why people are getting so ruffled about this... Visit a coop. See if it works. Interview with the leader. Join if it's a good fit for your family. Don't join if it isn't.

We've been in some awesome coops. Last year, DD14 was in a class that was taught at a much better level than any class I could teach because the teacher made use of the group to enhance the class. She brought in outside speakers for the kids to interview who had lived through what they were studying (for example, a survivor of the Cambodian genocide). She had the students debate things like questions regarding good development in Africa. Kids can do speeches at home, but debate is harder, and while many kids in the coop did outside debate, it required a 60 minute drive each way that my family didn't want to do! She required all students to do original research for the history fair and three out of five groups advanced to the national contest. I could have done parts of this, like history fair, but not all of it. The kids were very motivated, the parents quite engaged, the teacher expert, and it was great.

I taught IEW at the same coop because I knew DS10 would be engaged if it were taught to a class but argumentative if taught at home. (We since found out the behavior problems were due to sleep apnea and have treated that, but that class was a lifesaver last year.) 

We've been in some fine coops that met only in the afternoon and laid the foundation for long-term friendships.

I visited a lousy coop and made the decision not join.

We've also been in excellent extracurriculars where the kids want to do their thing and move onto the next thing. Seriously, when my daughter was in an elite orchestra, she said her stand partner spoke to her exactly once, to say, "Please put the stand away this week. I'm leaving early."

[SilverMoon]

We're homeschool co-op/group dropouts. 🤷‍♀️ We have a whole metropolis at our fingertips so there are loads of options and we've tried many of them over the years.

My kids' closest friends are all from their extracurriculars. The normal, afternoon/evening kind that everyone else does too. Right now it's all dance studio for the little two. That's what feeds them and they're both thriving with a busy dance life. The older kids had swim team, scouts, martial arts, etc. 

 

ETA: We do have one fb group that's just field trip oriented. We're there for the group discounts. At least 90% of the kids are younger than mine anyway and the vast majority do their own thing once in the zoo, museum, etc. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by SilverMoon

[Clemsondana]

I think co-ops can be great, or be a time suck-  it just depends on the group and what other options are available.  When my kids were little, co-op was a fun thing to do one day each week.  In middle school, it was fun, plus a place to take English and things like chess and choir.  In high school, I used it differently for my 2 different kids.  My older only took English, foreign language, and sometimes history or health or music theory or some other elective.  As a senior, kid just goes to take ballroom dance and be a teacher's helper for an hour...and then eat lunch with friends.  There are kids who have been together since elementary school.  Kid has done tons of classes at home and done some DE.  My younger, who fights me about everything, is taking more classes at the co-op, and it's working better for us.  I'd prefer to use it the same way that I did for older, but that's not what we need right now.  

Our co-op is a paid tutorial, with the co-op part being the supervisory part - parents work a certain number of hours as helpers of various types, but don't teach.  For the most part, our teachers are fantastic.  They only teach subjects that they are comfortable with and are enthusiastic about.  My kid has scored top AP scores after taking some of the classes and doing a bit of study, even though the classes aren't designed as AP courses.  But, one of the biggest benefits has been the ability to take classes with friends and do things like speech or chess that need a group.  

I don't really understand the point of co-ops where parents have to teach since it doesn't seem like, on average, there would be a benefit over just teaching your kids yourself.  I like our model because you can choose to just take 1-2 classes, or many, depending on your preferences. 

[Ellie]

48 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

I don't really understand the point of co-ops where parents have to teach since it doesn't seem like, on average, there would be a benefit over just teaching your kids yourself.  I like our model because you can choose to just take 1-2 classes, or many, depending on your preferences. 

A true co-op would be a few families who get together and all the parents teach all the children.

We refer to your model as a tutorial, not a co-op. I might have used a tutorial back in the day, but they hadn't been invented yet. 🙂

[Clemsondana]

8 minutes ago, Ellie said:

A true co-op would be a few families who get together and all the parents teach all the children.

We refer to your model as a tutorial, not a co-op. I might have used a tutorial back in the day, but they hadn't been invented yet. 🙂

If it's a few families, that makes perfect sense.  I'm thinking of the larger groups (there are some locally) that seem to have a lot of kids, but in classes taught by parents.  Sort of like CC, only less formal.  A few families getting together makes sense.  A paid tutorial with great teachers makes sense.  They have different vibes, but I can understand the purpose behind each.  Parents having to teach classes that they don't want to teach to a class-sized group of kids makes no sense to me.  And, as I said, even the paid tutorials run on a lot of volunteer hours.  We keep costs down by having minimal fees outside of the payments to teachers because families work, and having the families work together helps to build community.  

[rebcoola]

I prefer our meetup group.  Playdates at the park are the mainstay with kids playing and moms chatting.  But pretty much anyone can plan anything with very little work.  Its just much more flexible than a once a week co-op. 

[Lori D.]

never mind 😉 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Lori D.

[mom31257]

We did more than one co-op, but I founded and directed the last one we were in. That allowed me to make it what I wanted. I wanted them to experience other teachers and have time in class with other kids. They were friends with some of these kids because we were all part of a social homeschool group. 

Here is how we made it worth it:

• We only met every other week for about 3.5 hours, 8 weeks each semester. We didn't want it to take over our schedules and lives. 
• We did two core academic subjects (literature/writing and science) in the upper elementary grades, middle school, and high school. Science was mostly for the labs and some review of the content. The kids tested at home. The literature/writing was for writing instruction and discussion of the literature. The teachers evaluated the writing assignments. 
• We did 1-2 electives in upper elementary and middle school. The high school often did a 3rd class for credit, but sometimes it was something just for fun. 
• We didn't charge tuition because the moms all volunteered to teach classes or help in classes. Teaching parents got one period off as a planning period and thank you for teaching. We did charge a fee so we could give the church something for letting us meet there as well as a supply fee. 

When my last kid graduated, the co-op had been going for 10 years. It is still going and following the same format two years later. 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by mom31257

[8filltheheart]

8 hours ago, Lori D. said:

never mind 😉 

Your post was excellent. You shouldn't have deleted it!

[Brooke]

We are in a co op but for my case it’s not about academics but if they learn it’s a bonus. My boys are young though. It’s an inclusive co op and I love being able to meet other families that are going through this with us. Both my boys and I have met some great friends so far. Plus it’s only once a week so it takes an entire day but we manage everything else at home. It’s more of a social thing for us. 
 

My point is that it really depends on the type of co op and what you are looking to get out of it. 

[caffeineandbooks]

22 hours ago, Ellie said:

A true co-op would be a few families who get together and all the parents teach all the children.

This has been the kind of group we've been involved with, and it's been great.  With just 3-5 families everyone feels a sense of ownership and makes it a priority to attend and to lead well when it's their turn.  We meet every other week for an afternoon, for one subject, and there is time built in for the moms to chat and the kids to play afterwards.  And it's small enough that we can genuinely get to know and support one another, without the need for covenants and policies and insurance.  I'm thankful for larger group activities that we have also participated in, but it's this smaller group that has been our anchor.

[Cordelia]

On 11/28/2023 at 6:53 PM, Clemsondana said:

Parents having to teach classes that they don't want to teach to a class-sized group of kids makes no sense to me.  And, as I said, even the paid tutorials run on a lot of volunteer hours.  

Our co-op experience was with a group of this kind...we did it for a year and I will probably never do that again. 

This year we've used some paid classes. Parents volunteer to do things like cleaning up the church afterwards, being the hall monitor, etc. 

[Lori D.]

15 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

Your post was excellent. You shouldn't have deleted it!

lol, you are too kind.

I deleted because I realized my post really wasn't helpful to original poster... Every area has such VERY different options as far as extracurriculars, church groups, homeschooling support groups or co-ops, that it was kind of pointless to share about all of the options in my area, which can't help anyone living elsewhere... 😉

[EmilyGF]

On 11/26/2023 at 10:07 PM, Teach05 said:

I remember SWB saying years ago that co-ops were more trouble than they’re worth. (I’m paraphrasing HARD here, but that was the gist I got.) 

It’s hitting me now that we are in one that she was on to something. My kids like it. Oldest loves it.  I HATE it.  It is just the worst.  There’s no time for me to make mom friends, I have to plan activities (a LOT of busywork), and it cuts so much time out of one of our days.  I’m trying to research other options, but how do you decide on co-op vs not?  To be clear- we have no real family involvement for the kids and DH and I have always been sort of to ourselves, so I’ve had to work really hard to be mindful of making space for friendships.  It’s getting harder the older the kids get. I probably need to shut up and keep my head down with the co-op, but I just totally dread it every single week. 
 

Any advice?

Hi OP,

Can you chose another class to teach, especially since your kids like or love it? At the coop we were at last year, some of the moms made up their classes from scratch and spent hours planning every week. I chose to teach IEW and it took me 30 minutes planning per week for a solid class, and I could do all the planning during the first class of coop. It did not make sense to me why some of the parent-teachers wrote their curriculum themselves and then complained about what a time investment teaching was... (Maybe this isn't you, but this was my experience.) 

Emily

Edited November 30, 2023 by EmilyGF

[quietgarden]

While I agree with SWB on co-ops, I also think it depends. We are lucky to do a once a week outdoor school which is multi-age and super diverse. This is our third year and I feel the benefit is not just social (my son has neighborhood friends - all boys, travel team friends - all boys, cousins - mostly boys, etc.) but it is a community of sorts in all the best ways and he has friends that are girls as well. Like a one-room schoolhouse of old. The parents are wonderful as well and we often go on outings, camping trips, and even had a Friendsgiving this year.

I feel like that community building is something that schools try to create, but they are just too big to do it in a meaningful way. That community has become a very important part of my son's life and we have enjoyed it as well. 

I have heard of co-ops that aren't so time consuming - one half-day a week and parents take turns teaching an elective class over 6 weeks. That sounds very lovely as well.  

Perhaps there are other unhappy parents and you guys could start a small half-day co-op that is less intrusive to your time?

I guess there are two ways to look at it - the importance to your child but also your feelings as well. A wise person once told me when I was looking for preschools to make sure it was convenient for me as well (and I said no to a co-op preschool!). Maybe there is an option that gives your child community and social time without being a burden on you.

The decision doesn't have to be a binary one. As homeschoolers we are used to being creative and finding a solution!

[Ellie]

On 11/28/2023 at 5:53 PM, Clemsondana said:

If it's a few families, that makes perfect sense.  I'm thinking of the larger groups (there are some locally) that seem to have a lot of kids, but in classes taught by parents.  Sort of like CC, only less formal.  A few families getting together makes sense.  A paid tutorial with great teachers makes sense.  They have different vibes, but I can understand the purpose behind each.  Parents having to teach classes that they don't want to teach to a class-sized group of kids makes no sense to me.  And, as I said, even the paid tutorials run on a lot of volunteer hours.  We keep costs down by having minimal fees outside of the payments to teachers because families work, and having the families work together helps to build community.  

See, the big co-ops require parents to teach, and instead of parents volunteering to teach what they know, or want to teach, they are told what they must teach, because the co-op now has to offer a product. And in larger co-ops, it's age-segregated classrooms, which is what I wanted to avoid as a homeschooler. I found "community" in my support groups, without all the other stuff.

[Clemsondana]

8 hours ago, Ellie said:

See, the big co-ops require parents to teach, and instead of parents volunteering to teach what they know, or want to teach, they are told what they must teach, because the co-op now has to offer a product. And in larger co-ops, it's age-segregated classrooms, which is what I wanted to avoid as a homeschooler. I found "community" in my support groups, without all the other stuff.

Right, but at our group (which has paid teachers), we don't claim to offer everything.  We try to cover some of the important high school classes, but teachers are never required to teach anything that they don't want to.  We ask teachers what they want to teach and then pick some classes from each teacher to get a variety of classes for families to choose from.  To be fair, if we have a class that is popular (cooking, for instance) and the teacher won't be teaching the next year, we ask if anybody would be interested in teaching cooking.  But, when the art teacher left for a full-time job, we asked a former student who does art if she'd be interested.  She asked if she could do a drawing class instead of whatever had been there before, and that was fine.  If she decides to offer painting, that will also be fine.  If she leaves at somebody wants to teach sculpture, or cartooning that would also be OK.  So, I guess we do have a general 'something art-related' but it's up to the teacher to decide what they want to do.  We would never draft a non-artist to teach art classes, so if we didn't find somebody we'd use the room to offer a different kind of class. 

We have classes grouped by age, but the bands are bigger - usually K-2, 3-5, 6-8, and 9-12, but some classes are 6-12, or 4-8,or K-4.  It's up to the teachers as far as what they think is the right age group for the class.  With teacher permission, which is almost always given, kids can take classes outside of the recommended age range.  Our academically advanced kids can take classes when they are younger, and we've had special needs kids take classes that are aimed at a younger demographic.  Basically we want to keep K kids from getting trampled by teens in PE, and make sure that a 7 year old doesn't unexpectedly find themselves needing to read and discuss Shakespeare.  But, one of my favorite things is seeing the amount of interaction between our little kids and the big ones.  I've seen high schoolers help the littles at the water fountain.  On the first day when we had a lot of new families, our high schoolers were often stopping to help people find classrooms or bathrooms.  Some middle or high schoolers work as helpers in younger kid classes if they have a break in their schedules.  

It's perfectly fine to homeschool without co-ops - I would never try to convince somebody that they are necessary - and if we didn't have the particular one that we attend I probably wouldn't use one at all.  There are several others in town that I know would not be a good fit for us.  But, I also don't think it's fair to label all of them as a waste of time.  I was selective about what classes we took and used this is a chance to expose the kids to new things.  I am thankful for the quirky classes that my kids have been able to take over the years.  My STEM kid took a music theory class because they needed a fine arts elective and it was a game changer in how kid hears music.  Both of my kids are taking a ballroom dance class - one counting it as fine arts, the other as PE.  It turns out that both like it, which I never would have predicted.  I don't think that they would have had the same experience if I had just signed them up at a dance school - it's taking it with friends that has made it so fun.  

None of this is to argue that co-ops are a good fit for every family, or that one model of co-op (small, large, tutorial) is better than another, or that co-ops are necessary (they definitely are not).  But, in answer to the question 'Are they a waste of time?' I would say that, for our family, the answer is no.  

Edited December 1, 2023 by Clemsondana