“Protest behavior”

[Rosie_0801]

12 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

They very much imply a guy will move mountains for the right woman. So by chase I mean put forth consistent effort not like just the first week or 2. I notice a lot of guys just drop off. Everyone is on their best behavior at first, too! 

How long does it take to know someone is the right one? I may be thicker than average, but it took me ten years to figure out I was wrong and longer than that to find out just how wrong.

 

Anyway, I reckon Mark Manson's article presents a much more practical theory to work off. 'All or nothing' lacks nuance.

[marbel]

3 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

 

So I listen to this guy Matthew Hussey. And a woman Margarita Nazarenko. 

They very much imply a guy will move mountains for the right woman. So by chase I mean put forth consistent effort not like just the first week or 2. I notice a lot of guys just drop off. Everyone is on their best behavior at first, too! 

What do they say women will do for the right man?  In any case, people don't always act the way the experts say they will.  

But, it would seem that the key there is 'the right woman.'  When I was first divorced I had a few brief relationships, one after the other. Sometimes I was the one who ended it; sometimes the guy was. The reason, though, was consistent: one (or sometimes both) decided we weren't right for each other. And that was that. 

Another thing I was thinking was that maybe this guy likes you and would like to spend time with you, but is unrealistic about actually making it happen. Sounds as if he has a lot of obligations in his life (as do you) and it's just not working out. Sometimes the timing is just bad. 

 

[heartlikealion]

11 minutes ago, marbel said:

What do they say women will do for the right man?  In any case, people don't always act the way the experts say they will.  

But, it would seem that the key there is 'the right woman.'  When I was first divorced I had a few brief relationships, one after the other. Sometimes I was the one who ended it; sometimes the guy was. The reason, though, was consistent: one (or sometimes both) decided we weren't right for each other. And that was that. 

Another thing I was thinking was that maybe this guy likes you and would like to spend time with you, but is unrealistic about actually making it happen. Sounds as if he has a lot of obligations in his life (as do you) and it's just not working out. Sometimes the timing is just bad. 

 

Yeah we discussed the bad timing. 
I’d like to think “right guy, wrong time” but it might just be wrong guy. Heck if I know. We had a spark 20 years ago, then recently. I’d like to think if we’re meant to be it could be there once things settle down for both of us. 

One thing I really like about him is he doesn’t live beyond his means. No debt. He doesn’t even have a cc. 

[maize]

I don't think there are formulas for finding "the right" partner because, frankly, every individual and every relationship is different. A guy who pursues a woman vigorously could be a good match and excellent future partner, or could have narcissistic tendencies and be love bombing her, but that behavior will fizzle out once she falls off the imagined pedestal he has put her on. A guy who is slow to warm up or who doesn't want constant contact while dating may be a bit of an introvert, or cautious after past relationship failures, or just not a hot-burning romantic type, or...

In any case, there's no reason to rush--either to rush into a relationship, or to rush to turn a temporary relationship into a long-term commitment. There are few downsides to letting things play out over time (just the discomfort of sitting with uncertainty--and while that can be a real pain, it's ultimately less pain than some of the alternatives).

[heartlikealion]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

How long does it take to know someone is the right one? I may be thicker than average, but it took me ten years to figure out I was wrong and longer than that to find out just how wrong.

 

Anyway, I reckon Mark Manson's article presents a much more practical theory to work off. 'All or nothing' lacks nuance.

That’s a fair question! And I’m probably not qualified to answer 😆

[heartlikealion]

1 hour ago, maize said:

I don't think there are formulas for finding "the right" partner because, frankly, every individual and every relationship is different. A guy who pursues a woman vigorously could be a good match and excellent future partner, or could have narcissistic tendencies and be love bombing her, but that behavior will fizzle out once she falls off the imagined pedestal he has put her on. A guy who is slow to warm up or who doesn't want constant contact while dating may be a bit of an introvert, or cautious after past relationship failures, or just not a hot-burning romantic type, or...

In any case, there's no reason to rush--either to rush into a relationship, or to rush to turn a temporary relationship into a long-term commitment. There are few downsides to letting things play out over time (just the discomfort of sitting with uncertainty--and while that can be a real pain, it's ultimately less pain than some of the alternatives).

I know initially my fear was “losing” this person. Oh they will move on and meet someone else soon and that’s that. 

I’m too demanding so they could meet some chick that doesn’t mind their crazy schedule. I don’t know. I think too much. 

[TexasProud]

20 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I know initially my fear was “losing” this person. Oh they will move on and meet someone else soon and that’s that. 

I’m too demanding so they could meet some chick that doesn’t mind their crazy schedule. I don’t know. I think too much. 

Ok... you MUST get over this.  You need to be happy with just yourself.  I do love my husband, but man, if he is gone, I will still survive.  Never, ever be so dependent on someone that you would be lost without them. 

[heartlikealion]

8 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Ok... you MUST get over this.  You need to be happy with just yourself.  I do love my husband, but man, if he is gone, I will still survive.  Never, ever be so dependent on someone that you would be lost without them. 

You speak to me as if I’ve never been single. And ok with it. 

But ok. Thanks for your input. 

[fairfarmhand]

I do feel for you heart. The pool of men in your age range is just going to be challenging. A majority of The decent ones are married or single parenting kids. Decent guys with kids are going to place their kids as a very high priority in their lives and I think you probably understand that one one level, and yet on another level, you really do want someone to prioritize you. It feels like an impossible situation. 

Keep looking. Stay open to love. Even though it's hard. 

I don't envy you. Those early weeks of dating are so awkward and hard to find your way through. You're trying to be yourself and yet not pressure the other guy...it's so hard. 

[maize]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

I know initially my fear was “losing” this person. Oh they will move on and meet someone else soon and that’s that. 

I’m too demanding so they could meet some chick that doesn’t mind their crazy schedule. I don’t know. I think too much. 

Anxiety brain does us all in sometimes ((()))

[Murphy101]

5 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I’m a way nothing in this thread makes me feel better 🤣

You ask if we’re ok and they might lie 

But at that point it doesn’t matter if they lie. You asked. You tried. You did your part with sincerity. The point of asking is to know what you need to do or say. If they don’t want you to talk or change anything and thus lie? Then either way you ultimately did what they were okay with. And you have to be okay that you did what you could and that’s really all anyone can ask. 

5 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

you notice a pattern change and address it. Now you feel Iike you’ve made a mountain out of a molehill but… maybe you were right. Even if they dismiss it. 
 

 Let’s play with that. Some people don’t care if their entire yard is mole hills everywhere. But just knowing they know about it bc you told them tells you a lot about your relationship and them.  Some people can totally buy in and dismiss the mole hills too. If they care why should you? But if you do and they don’t? Okay. This is informative too. Because you need to know if you want to be with someone who is okay putting you in a situation where every time you step near them you might lose footing falling in or tripping over yet another damn molehill. 

5 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I had a guy ghost once and stop reading the Facebook messenger messages. I mentioned this via cell phone number and he said it was nothing, we had just swapped platforms. That was BS lol. He either stopped clicking on the Facebook messages (you can sorta read them as pop ups if you have notifications on) or read them and marked them unread. Within about 48 hrs I never heard from him again. He was just warming up to ghosting. 

ghosting can be a gift when it’s people you aren’t heavily invested in. Cue to not waste anymore time. 

5 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I have trust issues partly because people are friggin liars.

verify. Then trust. Actually just verify.  Verify and you don’t have to worry about trust. 

5 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Now some may tell the truth but I think it’s often a half truth. Other times it may be full truth. 
 

sure. Because most people lie to themselves more than anyone else so it’s not likely they are going to be more honest with others. 

5 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I repeatedly hear that a man will chase if he wants you. When I start seeing a decline in communication I think oh he’s done… doesn’t want to court me or doesn’t want to put real effort into it. That could be wrong! It’s just feel I feel. 

Actually. There’s many ways to chase and many reasons. Mostly people chase when they feel insecure.  And honestly being chased forever does sound rather exhausting. LOL You could try giving yourself limits regardless of guy. Such as not contacting or responding to a contact during your work hours. Or theirs if you know theirs. And tell them if they ask that you don’t want to bother them at work.

Idk.  I haven’t dated in 34 years  thank god  it looks like hell out there in swipe left or right land.

OH! One of the Korean IG people I follow did a skit for a new dating app called … *drum roll* 

Coffee meets bagel

It’s supposedly only for those serious and looking to marry. And has some probably complicated set up to assist in better matching and blahblahblah

I don’t want to date.  But if I did. They named this one right to get my attention. 

[Shoeless]

6 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I repeatedly hear that a man will chase if he wants you.

In my experience, the guys that want to chase you are the sort of guys you should run from. 

Why does a guy have to chase you? If you want him and he wants you, then no chase is necessary.  

[ktgrok]

An adult should be able to say to another adult, "when you don't return my texts, it makes me wonder if there is something going on we need to discuss, or if this relationship isn't working out for you right now" and get an honest response. 

And an adult should be able to say, when presented with that communication, why they are not texting back. If they agree they should text back more quickly, they should be capable of doing so without being manipulated into it. 

If they cannot understand and react properly to clear communication, and require other things like "showing them how it feels" than they are frankly not mature enough for a healthy adult relationship. The solution is not to figure out how to make them understand, the solution is to find a more mature, healthy individual to be in a relationship with. Or at least have that person attend therapy to figure their crap out (in the case of a marriage or other serious relationship that can't just be ended without a lot of collateral damage to all involved). 

[heartlikealion]

So the last time we spoke I was the one that reached out (to confirm the tentative plans). That was Friday. Silly me, I thought by now he’d have reached out to ask about my new job. No, I don’t think I should reach out. 

I have to be better about choosing who I invest in… see how communication goes for several weeks before getting attached. Because after a short time they all seem to drop off in some way. 

I’m taking a break from my social media. If they want to know what’s going on in my life they can contact me directly. I don’t care if this looks like protest behavior. I’m just done. 

[TravelingChris]

I think you shouldn't reach out.  I think you are smart not to.  

[heartlikealion]

I have to learn things the hard way 🤦🏻‍♀️ if I’m “too much” too intense, too quick to text… maybe don’t try to date me? I’ll have to figure out texting needs/wants early on. And attachment style in relationships. And probably several other things before I allow myself to get attached. 

[heartlikealion]

On 11/26/2023 at 11:15 PM, Murphy101 said:

OH! One of the Korean IG people I follow did a skit for a new dating app called … *drum roll* 

Coffee meets bagel

It’s supposedly only for those serious and looking to marry. And has some probably complicated set up to assist in better matching and blahblahblah

I don’t want to date.  But if I did. They named this one right to get my attention. 

I think Coffee Meets Bagel stinks lol it was featured on Shark Tank. But I never had luck with it. I reopened it tonight to see what it was like and it just gives very few choices and they want you to pay with “coffee beans” for more features.

I prefer the apps that are more popular just because more people are on there. 

I have a pretty good idea of spam accounts so I swipe left on them immediately. And it’s a red flag if the guy asks you to swap to Wh@t’s App or S!gnal to chat. Listen, loser, talk to me here. I don't want your cryptocurrency pitch. 

Dating is the worst. And I promise some have prompts they copy and paste. 🤮

Marriage is not really my goal in life now.

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by heartlikealion

[scholastica]

Maybe focus on finding good friends in your new city? See if there are groups that meet up to do activities you like to do.  It would be great for you to find a supportive friend circle. If anything develops from that, so be it. Getting settled and making real friends would be my highest priority in your situation.

[heartlikealion]

5 minutes ago, scholastica said:

Maybe focus on finding good friends in your new city? See if there are groups that meet up to do activities you like to do.  It would be great for you to find a supportive friend circle. If anything develops from that, so be it. Getting settled and making real friends would be my highest priority in your situation.

Oh yeah I know but also I get little fulfillment out of hobbies, friendships, and jobs. I always long for deeper connections than these things provide. I’ve done it all. I do like the gym but ruled that out after seeing the drive. And I’ve never made friends at gyms, anyway. 

I don’t have a real game plan now. I just logged into the app to remember what it was like. I don’t plan to use it. 

[Ginevra]

23 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I have to learn things the hard way 🤦🏻‍♀️ if I’m “too much” too intense, too quick to text… maybe don’t try to date me? I’ll have to figure out texting needs/wants early on. And attachment style in relationships. And probably several other things before I allow myself to get attached. 

I could be wrong on this, but I think you’re trying to over psycho analyze the whole thing. Does it need to be so complicated? I don’t even know wtf an “attachment style” is. If I like someone, we’re good to go; if I don’t - see ya around. 🤷🏻‍♀️ (I’m going by platonic relationships because, mercifully, I’m not dating. But - same thing. 
 

I spoke on here somewhat recently about a female friend I had met. I thought she would be fun to hang out with but she was super intense and totally exhausting. Constant drama.  Incessant texting and trying to push her way into my life and hobbies. So I let her go. She still sends me messages now and then, but I mostly don’t feedback. Maybe once a message has sat there for a week. But mostly I just wanted off the merry-go-round. So we’re done. 

[heartlikealion]

1 minute ago, Ginevra said:

I could be wrong on this, but I think you’re trying to over psycho analyze the whole thing. Does it need to be so complicated? I don’t even know wtf an “attachment style” is. If I like someone, we’re good to go; if I don’t - see ya around. 🤷🏻‍♀️ (I’m going by platonic relationships because, mercifully, I’m not dating. But - same thing. 
 

I spoke on here somewhat recently about a female friend I had met. I thought she would be fun to hang out with but she was super intense and totally exhausting. Constant drama.  Incessant texting and trying to push her way into my life and hobbies. So I let her go. She still sends me messages now and then, but I mostly don’t feedback. Maybe once a message has sat there for a week. But mostly I just wanted off the merry-go-round. So we’re done. 

I actually discussed attachment styles and space early on with him about how things didn’t mesh with me and previous guys. How I’m ok with breaks in communication if I’m told in advance (like I’ll be out of town, on a guys trip etc and you probably won’t hear from me for a few days”). I tried to avoid issues in advance but you can’t always see changes coming. Trust me, the texting was mutual early on… he was goofing off with his son and sent me pics of them in the store trying on costumes. Just staying in touch in little ways all the time. Asking me to send a pic because he missed my face. It was not all one-sided! 

Guys change. They all do it to me. And this whole courting thing lasts 5 min. Then they’re done. 

For the record — yes it can matter. If they are an avoidant they are like a stray cat. They scare easily. Need a lot of space. I think I dated a couple of those. 

[marbel]

23 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I have to learn things the hard way 🤦🏻‍♀️ if I’m “too much” too intense, too quick to text… maybe don’t try to date me? I’ll have to figure out texting needs/wants early on. And attachment style in relationships. And probably several other things before I allow myself to get attached. 

But dating is the process by which we learn if someone is too intense, not intense enough, compatible in all the ways. I can't figure out another way of finding that stuff out without the actual dating. I mean, people can talk all these things over, but theory and practice are often different even without someone trying to be deceitful. 

[heartlikealion]

Just now, marbel said:

But dating is the process by which we learn if someone is too intense, not intense enough, compatible in all the ways. I can't figure out another way of finding that stuff out without the actual dating. I mean, people can talk all these things over, but theory and practice are often different even without someone trying to be deceitful. 

The texting can happen before the dating… and I also meant before becoming exclusive. He asked me to be exclusive right away. So it’s kind of a slap in the face to say oh it’s all my fault I pushed him away I must have texted too much or something when everything was fine at first. The texting only changed after we broke up and we only broke up because of the move and my fear that if he can’t stop canceling plans now then how could it work with even more obstacles. So yea I’ll take some blame but these guys definitely change, too. 

[marbel]

5 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

The texting can happen before the dating… and I also meant before becoming exclusive.

Yes, I see that. Just as, back in the old days, my then-boyfriend and I emailed - because other than phone calls, that's what there was. And it didn't happen on weekends or after work, because the computer was at work. 

In any case, we can text/talk but I don't think it's till the actual dating starts that we see how things actually work out between the people. There's personal chemistry, and also, just... how people are in person. That all adds up to how the relationship will go and how often communication will happen.

I'm pretty sure I'm not explaining it right. BTW I'm not saying you are at fault for this breakup - how would I know? - but I think the risk of actual dating in person has to happen, and sometimes it ends badly, sad to say. 

[heartlikealion]

3 minutes ago, marbel said:

Yes, I see that. Just as, back in the old days, my then-boyfriend and I emailed - because other than phone calls, that's what there was. And it didn't happen on weekends or after work, because the computer was at work. 

In any case, we can text/talk but I don't think it's till the actual dating starts that we see how things actually work out between the people. There's personal chemistry, and also, just... how people are in person. That all adds up to how the relationship will go and how often communication will happen.

I'm pretty sure I'm not explaining it right. BTW I'm not saying you are at fault for this breakup - how would I know? - but I think the risk of actual dating in person has to happen, and sometimes it ends badly, sad to say. 

I just think I need to be slower to agree to exclusive dating as I get my heart broken too easily. And if a guy sucks at communication then he’s getting written off early on. But I’ll try to make those expectations known early on (in a “what is your texting style?” type conversation) so if we’re not a fit we don’t bother. Or if they don’t like to text but can schedule and keep dates, I may make an exception. I’m just sick of being let down.

I’m just saying things going sideways feels directly related to the relationship status changing. 

[Ginevra]

27 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I actually discussed attachment styles and space early on with him about how things didn’t mesh with me and previous guys. How I’m ok with breaks in communication if I’m told in advance (like I’ll be out of town, on a guys trip etc and you probably won’t hear from me for a few days”). I tried to avoid issues in advance but you can’t always see changes coming. Trust me, the texting was mutual early on… he was goofing off with his son and sent me pics of them in the store trying on costumes. Just staying in touch in little ways all the time. Asking me to send a pic because he missed my face. It was not all one-sided! 

Guys change. They all do it to me. And this whole courting thing lasts 5 min. Then they’re done. 

For the record — yes it can matter. If they are an avoidant they are like a stray cat. They scare easily. Need a lot of space. I think I dated a couple of those. 

Well, this is just me, but I would be spooked by a partner who wanted to discuss attachment styles in advance. That’s too much work. I want to be in love, not a science experiment. I’m a bit of a stray cat, too. It played a big role in who I picked to marry. He was not needy. He was happy to just be. If he had said he wanted to discuss attachment styles, I don’t think we would have had any future. 
 

Maybe the guys you’ve dated are more like that. 

[heartlikealion]

9 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

Well, this is just me, but I would be spooked by a partner who wanted to discuss attachment styles in advance. That’s too much work. I want to be in love, not a science experiment. I’m a bit of a stray cat, too. It played a big role in who I picked to marry. He was not needy. He was happy to just be. If he had said he wanted to discuss attachment styles, I don’t think we would have had any future. 
 

Maybe the guys you’ve dated are more like that. 

That’s totally fine & valid. But I’m sick of wasting my time 🙂 

[regentrude]

7 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Oh yeah I know but also I get little fulfillment out of hobbies, friendships, and jobs. I always long for deeper connections than these things provide. I’ve done it all. 

Deeper connections tend to develop from shared interests and time spent together *doing* something you love. All my boyfriends were very good friends first. Same for my kids' partners. Then a relationship can grow organically when you know each other well. 

It is also more sustainable because you have the common interest and the thing you love doing together, and you always have this as a way to reinforce the connection. 

I am sorry you never had fulfillment from hobbies and friendships. That sounds very sad. Perhaps you haven't found the right hobby? 

[Innisfree]

8 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I get little fulfillment out of hobbies, friendships, and jobs. I always long for deeper connections than these things provide.

Friendships can be very deep connections, though. The things you list above don’t have to be superficial interests; they can be passions that define you as a person.

Not something to answer here, but I wonder if you wouldn’t benefit from a few years of exploring who you are as a person. There must be more to your self than a desire for a romantic relationship. I wonder if you’ve been so caught up in a difficult relationship and the stresses of children, financial needs, moving, family relationships, etc., that you haven’t gotten to know yourself. 

You’re of an age where you have young children. The guys you want to date are, too. Responsible fathers are going to make their children their priority. That’s not a negative trait. Those are precisely the people who will make good, committed partners, but they may not be able to do that right now. This is a season of life, not all of life; it may just not be the time, for them or for you, to focus on a dating relationship. 

Maybe some introspection and involvement in things you care about will help you find fulfilling friends and activities. Perhaps try some volunteer work, something where you focus on helping others. Perhaps you can identify your own passions and dive into them. The worthwhile relationships will follow when they aren’t your immediate goal, but arise naturally out of shared interests and values. What do you care about? Focus on that. But don’t do it to find a partner; do it because it’s who you are and what is important to you.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Innisfree

[heartlikealion]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

Deeper connections tend to develop from shared interests and time spent together *doing* something you love. All my boyfriends were very good friends first. Same for my kids' partners. Then a relationship can grow organically when you know each other well. 

It is also more sustainable because you have the common interest and the thing you love doing together, and you always have this as a way to reinforce the connection. 

I am sorry you never had fulfillment from hobbies and friendships. That sounds very sad. Perhaps you haven't found the right hobby? 

I’ve done sewing, trivia nights, bowling meetups, and more over the years. I’ve tried meetups prior to and post marriage. It’s always been unfulfilling. 

I don’t know why everyone says you just need this in your life like all people are wired the same. 

[heartlikealion]

1 hour ago, Innisfree said:

Friendships can be very deep connections, though. The things you list above don’t have to be superficial interests; they can be passions that define you as a person.

Not something to answer here, but I wonder if you wouldn’t benefit from a few years of exploring who you are as a person. There must be more to your self than a desire for a romantic relationship. I wonder if you’ve been so caught up in a difficult relationship and the stresses of children, financial needs, moving, family relationships, etc., that you haven’t gotten to know yourself. 

You’re of an age where you have young children. The guys you want to date are, too. Responsible fathers are going to make their children their priority. That’s not a negative trait. Those are precisely the people who will make good, committed partners, but they may not be able to do that right now. This is a season of life, not all of life; it may just not be the time, for them or for you, to focus on a dating relationship. 

Maybe some introspection and involvement in things you care about will help you find fulfilling friends and activities. Perhaps try some volunteer work, something where you focus on helping others. Perhaps you can identify your own passions and dive into them. The worthwhile relationships will follow when they aren’t your immediate goal, but arise naturally out of shared interests and values. What do you care about? Focus on that. But don’t do it to find a partner; do it because it’s who you are and what is important to you.

I want to be a little selfish right now. I don’t want to commit to a group or volunteer gig. 

I do think I know who I am in a lot of ways. I get some joy out of helping others but I check that box at work. 

Sewing with others in a room is not necessarily fun. Trivia nights were ok but it’s really just a distraction and a way to say ok great you got out of the house and saw people. But it doesn’t fill a void. 

[Innisfree]

41 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

want to be a little selfish right now.

I can understand that.

Groups and volunteer gigs may not be what you need (maybe they could help, but I hear you: maybe they won’t). But this part is striking—

44 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

But it doesn’t fill a void. 

If there’s a void that needs filling… other people can’t always do that either. Partners can’t always do that.

Yes, other people are a wonderful part of life, and to larger or smaller degrees we all need them. But ultimately we need to be able to be happy with ourselves. If you can make a life that satisfies you, single or not, then you’ll be ready to have a satisfying life with someone else.

If you’re starting from the position that you need another person to be happy, that’s putting yourself in a vulnerable situation from the very start, and fulfilling that expectation isn’t necessarily going to be possible anyway. None of us is guaranteed a good relationship. If you feel like a romantic relationship is a need, you’ll make choices to get that relationship which might not be the best for you, as a healthy individual and parent of two kids who legitimately do need you.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

I’ve done sewing, trivia nights, bowling meetups, and more over the years. I’ve tried meetups prior to and post marriage. It’s always been unfulfilling. 

I don’t know why everyone says you just need this in your life like all people are wired the same. 

I find it difficult to imagine a deep, identity-creating passion for trivia night and bowling meetups. But is there *nothing* that fills you with joy and that you love to do for yourself (and not as a vehicle for meeting people)?

No, we are not all wired the same way. But most people do have something they love to DO with their time, often deeply entwined with WHO they are. I have friends who are passionate about gardening, writing, community theater, music, hiking, climbing, cooking, restoring old furniture, homesteading, identifying fungi.... so many things that enrich their lives. And the connections with other people who are interested in those things are easy to make and to develop into strong friendships. 

[heartlikealion]

I don’t know how to respond. It’s probably the depression. When you are depressed you don’t get joy out of activities. 

I’ve felt this way many times. Go to therapy, read books, distract myself with interests. Rinse & repeat. Still feel like life is missing something. Felt lonely for years in and out of marriage. 

I know one plus one makes two (Alanis  Morrisette. I never call a partner my “better half.” I hate that expression). 

I can’t explain things and I feel like I’ve heard every suggestion under the sun over the years. I’d like to keep activities in addition to having a partner but they don’t replace that if that makes sense. 

Touch is a part of my love language and I don’t get that from friends. I don’t want to be touched by platonic friends lol 

now that I’m in a bigger city I did try to download meetup but the app didn't let me in. I’ve never had much success with those meetups. No, I don’t want to sit in a coffee shop and watch you write your screenplay. Yes literally the last one I joined people brought their activities to the meetup as the host encouraged. 

I don’t expect a partner to satisfy every need. I just would like a partner to share time with, activities, meals, etc. And intimacy. 

New friends are fine! But I leave feeling lonely too so it’s not the same. 

[heartlikealion]

I will say I like to go to these clubs with goth nights (goth, synth, ebm, industrial etc). But I can’t ever get anyone to commit to go with me. The event starts tonight at 10 but I probably won’t go because I work Sat morning. It’s a pain to get there, find parking etc. I worry about my safety if I go alone (walking to my car). 

I am trying to meet friends that want to go dancing but it’s hard. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by heartlikealion

[marbel]

8 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

New friends are fine! But I leave feeling lonely too so it’s not the same. 

I get you. Actually I get your entire post. 

But sometimes you have to sit with the loneliness. Even embrace being alone when you don't want to be. Do things alone that you'd rather do with a partner.  Work to build a life for yourself that doesn't include a partner.  Just you (and your kids). I don't mean don't have friends. But focus on doing what you want to do with your free time. See a movie or a play, go to a concert, a hike, take a class for fun. Not as a path to meet someone but to enjoy it yourself. 

ETA: I saw your post about the event tonight. Yeah, sad to say, some things are not feasible all the time. Personal safety is an issue. Not all the things will work out. But, maybe being picked up at the door (Uber/Lyft) is an option, or maybe the venue can provide a security escort to your car. (I mean I have no idea if that's a thing outside of college campuses.) 

Edited December 1, 2023 by marbel

[heartlikealion]

3 minutes ago, marbel said:

I get you. Actually I get your entire post. 

But sometimes you have to sit with the loneliness. Even embrace being alone when you don't want to be. Do things alone that you'd rather do with a partner.  Work to build a life for yourself that doesn't include a partner.  Just you (and your kids). I don't mean don't have friends. But focus on doing what you want to do with your free time. See a movie or a play, go to a concert, a hike, take a class for fun. Not as a path to meet someone but to enjoy it yourself. 

ETA: I saw your post about the event tonight. Yeah, sad to say, some things are not feasible all the time. Personal safety is an issue. Not all the things will work out. But, maybe being picked up at the door (Uber/Lyft) is an option, or maybe the venue can provide a security escort to your car. (I mean I have no idea if that's a thing outside of college campuses.) 

And I’ve done all that. Mostly during my separation period of like 2 years. I’ve seen multiple movies alone, watched YouTube and learned to sew more things, painted, read, joined a bowling league as a sub (they only called once and I had a tailbone injury), went to trivia night with the same group for months, 

and it doesn’t do it for me 

[Innisfree]

You mentioned going to clubs with goth nights. That’s completely outside my experience, but maybe some aspect of that is your “thing.” I don’t even know exactly what’s involved, if it’s primarily about music or costume (forgive me if that’s the wrong term), but maybe there’s a way to be more involved without just going to the events. They do sound difficult to manage. Is that the only venue for related activities?

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I want to be a little selfish right now. I don’t want to commit to a group or volunteer gig. 

I do think I know who I am in a lot of ways. I get some joy out of helping others but I check that box at work. 

Sewing with others in a room is not necessarily fun. Trivia nights were ok but it’s really just a distraction and a way to say ok great you got out of the house and saw people. But it doesn’t fill a void. 

I think the trick is to use those as a jumping off point to start friendships which eventually turn into deep connections. That connection doesn’t have to be romantic. You can have deep full filling connections with women as friends, or if you find that connection with a man it could be a great basis for a relationship. 
Once you’re settled invite someone from trivia night sewing circle out to coffee or over for a spaghetti dinner or out for a walk, then keep doing that.  

[heartlikealion]

7 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

You mentioned going to clubs with goth nights. That’s completely outside my experience, but maybe some aspect of that is your “thing.” I don’t even know exactly what’s involved, if it’s primarily about music or costume (forgive me if that’s the wrong term), but maybe there’s a way to be more involved without just going to the events. They do sound difficult to manage. Is that the only venue for related activities?

There are 2 main venues. I’ve attended one in recent years with a friend but the DJ sucked lol we left. The nights happen a couple times a month but I hate to pay a ton for an Uber or parking. My 2 friends that live within about 20 min of me aren’t interested in attending. One is a former roommate and suggested we get together soon… but I have choppy days off so I don’t know when. 

We dress up (mostly in black gothy clothing). But it didn’t appear very “walk up and approach others” so going alone would be quite intimidating. I’ve been in and out of the scene for many years. But I don’t know locals that attend. 

[Innisfree]

2 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

There are 2 main venues.

Are there ways to “be a goth” other than going to clubs? Are there other things goths do together as part of being goths, like reenactors have camps or battles, and renfair people have fairs? Sorry, I’m hopelessly ignorant here. Is it mostly a style of dress, or are other activities associated, aside from clubs? 

[heartlikealion]

8 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I think the trick is to use those as a jumping off point to start friendships which eventually turn into deep connections. That connection doesn’t have to be romantic. You can have deep full filling connections with women as friends, or if you find that connection with a man it could be a great basis for a relationship. 
Once you’re settled invite someone from trivia night sewing circle out to coffee or over for a spaghetti dinner or out for a walk, then keep doing that.  

I don’t know how to explain. I can have deep conversations with a female friend but it’s not a replacement for the type I want. I’m not gonna cuddle with her, kwim? 

[marbel]

I'm going off on a tangent here... IIRC you are or were Roman Catholic? Is that right? If so, is the Church still a part of your life? Or would you like it to be again? I wonder if participating in a faith community would be good for you. If this is a difficult subject, or I'm just plain wrong, I apologize, and as always feel free to ignore me. 💗

ETA: during my long period alone, I visited some different churches. Though it turned out not to be right for me, the Unitarian Universalist church was very welcoming and I did feel like I found community there for a time. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by marbel

[heartlikealion]

Just now, Innisfree said:

Are there ways to “be a goth” other than going to clubs? Are there other things goths do together as part of being goths, like reenactors have camps or battles, and renfair people have fairs? Sorry, I’m hopelessly ignorant here. Is it mostly a style of dress, or are other activities associated, aside from clubs? 

I attend the concerts, too. For that genre and similar. I’ve been to a few this year. But I rarely meet people there. 

It’s hard to find other goths that aren’t too far away from me on personal beliefs. Like I reached out to one in our Facebook group (I’m in a couple) and she said she makes voodoo dolls for a living. That was a bit… disturbing to me lol 

[heartlikealion]

2 minutes ago, marbel said:

I'm going off on a tangent here... IIRC you are or were Roman Catholic? Is that right? If so, is the Church still a part of your life? Or would you like it to be again? I wonder if participating in a faith community would be good for you. If this is a difficult subject, or I'm just plain wrong, I apologize, and as always feel free to ignore me. 💗

ETA: during my long period alone, I visited some different churches. Though it turned out not to be right for me, the Unitarian Universalist church was very welcoming and I did feel like I found community there for a time. 

I’m not quite there yet. I think I’m too full of anger or something. 

[Innisfree]

Just now, heartlikealion said:

I don’t know how to explain. I can have deep conversations with a female friend but it’s not a replacement for the type I want. I’m not gonna cuddle with her, kwim? 

Not to be flippant, because I do hear what you’re saying. You want a loving physical relationship with a man who makes you a priority in a committed relationship. That’s absolutely understandable and valid. If it’s not available now, grieving it may be something you just have to work through.

Creating that relationship is out of our control, to a degree. We can create a good situation for finding that relationship. A lot of the suggestions here are based on finding the right situation to maybe, one day, do that. But ultimately there’s no guarantee that it will happen.

So maybe find other ways to satisfy the need for touch. Pets can help, but right now that might be too big a responsibility. Hug your kids. Snuggle with them on the sofa while you watch a movie. Volunteer at an animal shelter. There must be other ways— maybe others here have ideas. 

Maybe find a way to vent some anger. You’ve got good reasons to feel it, not that that matters: feelings just are, valid or not. Is there some hard physical work you can do? Think about why you’re angry, and find a way to turn that anger into energy. Is there a Habitat for Humanity where you could go help work on a house? Tell yourself you’re helping another woman who needs a home, maybe someone who has had an even rougher time than you. Help someone else rebuild their life. Help them rise above their circumstances, and see it as payback for the difficulties you’ve both faced.

Or are there legislative issues in your area that speak to you? Go pound the pavement for them. Register voters, or circulate a petition.

I’m sure you can think of other projects that might suit you better, but you get the idea. Hard work, in a cause that feels righteous to you, can help with the anger. Along the way you get to do some good.

[heartlikealion]

I don’t want to stretch myself thin now. Looking for volunteer gigs, second jobs etc. I just want to focus on settling into my home. Plus driving to do all those things costs money. 
I don’t even have a couch or tv in my house yet. I need to see if my old router is compatible with new service or if I need to purchase a new one. 

I have enough I can do. 

Romantic touch is not satisfied by other touch. It’s just not. 

It’s ok. I know I just get to deal with it. 

[heartlikealion]

I will say that xh rarely cuddled with me and wouldn’t even sit on the same piece of furniture for the marriage. I could probably count the number of times. Mostly happened at Christmas when he was forced to give up the recliners to his parents. I found that very cold and isolating. Separate recliners or one person in a chair and the other on the couch (I’m more a couch person). 

The bf I had just before moving away from central MS at least was affectionate. He always cuddled with me. 

[Innisfree]

21 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I don’t want to stretch myself thin now. Looking for volunteer gigs, second jobs etc. I just want to focus on settling into my home. Plus driving to do all those things costs money. 
I don’t even have a couch or tv in my house yet. I need to see if my old router is compatible with new service or if I need to purchase a new one. 

I have enough I can do. 

Romantic touch is not satisfied by other touch. It’s just not. 

It’s ok. I know I just get to deal with it. 

I’m sorry. It does stink that that’s where you are right now.

[maize]

4 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I don’t know how to respond. It’s probably the depression. When you are depressed you don’t get joy out of activities. 

 

This right here is at the heart of a lot of things. And there are no easy answers. Lack of human connection can contribute to depression, but depression makes it hard to connect. 

I'm not going to offer any pat advice for this because I don't have any. I have hope for you that some of the things you are needing to fill the voids inside will come your way. Hopefully having a secure job will result in lower stress, and that can certainly help with depression. 

And eventually I think you will find that human affection and intimacy you crave.

Edited December 1, 2023 by maize