Vaca in Great Lakes area?

[Soror]

We're brainstorming a little family vaca and are considering The Great Lakes. We live in the Midwest so it would be about a day's drive for us. The kids like beaches, animals (of all kinds), and shopping. Dh and I like nice trails, good food (especially ethnic food that we can't get), outdoor activities, and scenery. Any recommendations for places that aren't as crowded or other suggestions??

eta- While on a work trip dh drove by Weko beach and that it looked nice. As a bonus, it is closer to us but that is the extent of our experience with the area. 

We're looking at a short trip for reasons of time and money--- maybe 4 nights/5 days??

TIA

Edited June 9, 2023 by Soror

[Ottakee]

Grand Haven, Traverse City, Sleeping bear dunes area, all come to mind for Michigan

Do you want to stay in one place or travel around?

Grand Rapids MI also has a lot of what you are looking for but beach is about 45 minute drive away.

[catz]

Duluth/Two Harbors, MN and Door County, WI and Bayfield, WI (Madeline Island adjacent) come to mind.   Duluth area especially has some good restaurant and urban amenities if you like yourself an indoor/outdoor adventure.  If you could go after Labor Day toursts will go down.  

Also, you might get better suggestions with better drive time depending on where you are coming from.  That lake span is HUGE.

[wintermom]

Which Great Lake? There are 5, and they cover a massive area. I know Lake Ontario best, but it's the furthest away from you and likely not where you'd want to go. 

[Faith-manor]

Sleeps by Bear Dunes, in my book, is one of your best options. Amazing trails and view, kayaking and innertube floats on Platte River, beautiful loop drive, small dune that is open climbing for families, fair amount of wildlife, gorgeous drive to get there. There is a lot of good dining in Traverse City. I recommend a picnic lunch while spending the day in the Dunes, and then going into Traverse for dining. Samsara Southeast Asian Cuisine specializes in foods from Laos and Cambodia, Wren in Sutton Bay also has some unusual and fantastic foods.

On the east side, Belle Isle is just amazing, and I am pretty sure your kids would also love it. Lots of fine dining in downtown Detroit.

[Faith-manor]

Cleveland has some good options on Lake Erie, and lots of attractions. I am assuming Lake Superior is too far for you though if you are near Chicago, then Duluth might be an option. 

Please be advised. It is almost more dangerous to swim in the Great Lakes, especially Michigan, Huron, and Superior because we get rip tides which a lot of people do not expect because they think "lake", and the waves can be very high. They have been known to roll in, on a not stormy day, at 5-6 ft high, and upwards of 20 ft even more when a storm blows up which can happen fast. Some folks surf on Superior and Michigan. You need to watch your kids VERY closely. The nice thing about Sleeping Bear Dunes is that the County Park next to the NP campground has wonderful beach and shallow inlets where children can frolic safely. The river dumps into Michigan right there, so floats drop in up river and have a lazy trip down river to that county park. It is sooooooo nice. We did it A LOT when our kids were young. Also the water is quite cold in Lake Michigan, but those inlets and the river are divine.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Faith-manor

[I talk to the trees]

Central New York might be too much of a distance for you, but it has a lot of what you’re looking for. There’s Destiny USA (basically NY’s version of Mall of America) in Syracuse, and if you head north to Oswego County, there is Lake Ontario (some beaches/fishing), fishing on the Salmon River, and on weekends, the Sterling Renaissance Festival. 

[Harriet Vane]

Our family adores Sleeping Bear.

[Kidlit]

I'm a long way away from a Great Lake,  but this thread has almost convinced me to make it a destination!

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Kidlit said:

I'm a long way away from a Great Lake,  but this thread has almost convinced me to make it a destination!

It is truly amazing here. It is hard to describe the beauty. Other places that are amazing destinations include, Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore, Mackinaw City, Mackinac Island, Porcupine Mountain and Lake of the Clouds, Copper Harbor/Calumet, Tahquamenon Falls and Whitefish Point Shipwreck Museum, Presque Isle Park and Sugar Loaf Mountain look out, Sault Ste. Marie and the boat locks, Greenfield Village and Henry Ford Museum, Detroit Symphony Orchestra, Detroit Institute of Art, Beaver Island, Mackinac International Dark Sky Park, Belle Isle (absolutely gorgeous), tons of Farm to Table, wineries and cherry orchards in the Traverse Bay Area, Blake Farms in Armadale for the Lavender festival and some of their pretty special Cider, and definitely do not miss Sleeping Bear Dunes.

[Momto6inIN]

We're camping at Muskegon State Park MI in late July. We've been there before and it's absolutely beautiful! We call it the poor man's Florida vacation because you get the beach without the prices and the long drive 😉

[Ottakee]

7 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

We're camping at Muskegon State Park MI in late July. We've been there before and it's absolutely beautiful! We call it the poor man's Florida vacation because you get the beach without the prices and the long drive 😉

I am actually heading to Muskegon state park to hike tomorrow.   
 

if you have the time, Grand Haven has a beautiful boardwalk, pier, and the musical fountain.

[Soror]

Thank you all. I'm checking out all the wonderful places. 

I'd rather stay in one place.

For reference, we're about 6.5 hrs south of Chicago. 

Thanks!

[mom31257]

Following.

We’ve talked for a couple of years about doing a trip basically around Lake Michigan. It won’t be this year but maybe in the next couple of years. 

We have been to Door County and loved it! 

Edited June 10, 2023 by mom31257

[Faith-manor]

44 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

We're camping at Muskegon State Park MI in late July. We've been there before and it's absolutely beautiful! We call it the poor man's Florida vacation because you get the beach without the prices and the long drive 😉

That is a lovely park. I have to say, Michigan does a good job of funding our DNR and making our state parks wonderful places to stay. If there is one thing that unites Michiganders, it is protecting our natural resources and making the outdoors a magnificent playground!

[Faith-manor]

32 minutes ago, Soror said:

Thank you all. I'm checking out all the wonderful places. 

I'd rather stay in one place.

For reference, we're about 6.5 hrs south of Chicago. 

Thanks!

Okay, then if you want to stay in one place, and only be one long day's drive from home, my suggestion is either St. Joseph, Warren Dunes St. Park is you camp, Ludington, Muskegon, or Sleeping Bear Dunes and Traverse, staying fairly close to Traverse for the food options. I would not go any further north than that. It is 5 hrs and 15 min from Chicago to Sleeping Bear. It is only 1.5 hours from Chicago to St. Joseph or Warren Dunes, and you can stop off at Indiana Dunes National Park. It isn't as spectacular as Sleeping Bear, sad to say, but it is nice. Warren Dunes has hiking trails, a beautiful day use area and beach, pretty amazing waves come into that part, the view is lovely.  St. Joe gives you some nice dining options several hotels plus a lot of Vrbo homes, and day trip excursions including Indiana Dunes and Warren Dunes. You could day trip up to Ludington which has a lovely city park on the water, lots of unique shops in an adorable downtown, Harbor cruises, Fox Barn Winery, the elk farm (kind of cool, your kids might like it), harbor lighthouse, lots of things.

[catz]

Door County isn’t an awful drive from Chicago area.  Actually lots of interesting little towns along the lake, through Milwaukee.   Even staying somewhere in the Milwaukee area (some cute towns north of town, Port Washington comes to mind) could make a nice little trip if you wanted a more urban adventure.   
 

[Harriet Vane]

22 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Okay, then if you want to stay in one place, and only be one long day's drive from home, my suggestion is either St. Joseph, Warren Dunes St. Park is you camp, Ludington, Muskegon, or Sleeping Bear Dunes and Traverse, staying fairly close to Traverse for the food options. I would not go any further north than that. It is 5 hrs and 15 min from Chicago to Sleeping Bear. It is only 1.5 hours from Chicago to St. Joseph or Warren Dunes, and you can stop off at Indiana Dunes National Park. It isn't as spectacular as Sleeping Bear, sad to say, but it is nice. Warren Dunes has hiking trails, a beautiful day use area and beach, pretty amazing waves come into that part, the view is lovely.  St. Joe gives you some nice dining options several hotels plus a lot of Vrbo homes, and day trip excursions including Indiana Dunes and Warren Dunes. You could day trip up to Ludington which has a lovely city park on the water, lots of unique shops in an adorable downtown, Harbor cruises, Fox Barn Winery, the elk farm (kind of cool, your kids might like it), harbor lighthouse, lots of things.

This would be my leaning as well.

Door County is also lovely but tends to be wall-to-wall people in the summer. Extremely cute area with plenty to see and do but also quite popular. That’s why I like to push further north. 

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, Harriet Vane said:

This would be my leaning as well.

Door County is also lovely but tends to be wall-to-wall people in the summer. Extremely cute area with plenty to see and do but also quite popular. That’s why I like to push further north. 

Agreed. Having been there before, LOL, I am a big fan of going somewhere less crowded. St. Joe and Ludington are "touristy" but nowhere near the crowds that Door deals with. Mackinac Island and Mackinaw City do jot even get that busy, and I avoid them from Memorial Day to Labor Day. We usually make our excursion in the fall. Autumn colors, walk the city or go to the island, and just no crowds. So much more pleasant.

[Harriet Vane]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

Agreed. Having been there before, LOL, I am a big fan of going somewhere less crowded. St. Joe and Ludington are "touristy" but nowhere near the crowds that Door deals with. Mackinac Island and Mackinaw City do jot even get that busy, and I avoid them from Memorial Day to Labor Day. We usually make our excursion in the fall. Autumn colors, walk the city or go to the island, and just no crowds. So much more pleasant.

We go to the Mackinac area at the end of June every year. We spend the bulk of our time camping and hiking. St Ignace is a decent little lake town with fun July 4 festivities. Mackinac Island is the big draw there, of course, but makes a lovely day trip. Or two. The beauty of it is no cars on the island—changes the vibe for the better. 

[catz]

After Labor Day is way better for door county.   October is my favorite     My dad was s raised there, have spent many a family vacation.  It is lovely!  💕

Edited June 10, 2023 by catz

[Faith-manor]

25 minutes ago, catz said:

After Labor Day is way better for door county.   October is my favorite     My dad was s raised there, have spent many a family vacation.  It is lovely!  💕

Yes, if the fall color is on, it is absolutely lovely! So much better than summertime.

[KrissiK]

11 hours ago, Kidlit said:

I'm a long way away from a Great Lake,  but this thread has almost convinced me to make it a destination!

I have always wanted to visit the Great Lakes. I live in California and we don’t travel much, but I really am determined that someday….someday…

[Pawz4me]

We love all the Great Lakes areas we've seen. We've seen from the NY side of Lake Erie to the UP and Door County and many points in between. A couple of years before Covid we did a September trip to Mackinac Island and Mackinaw City, then up to the locks at Sault Ste. Marie and then back down through Door County. September was a great time for that trip. I've always thought I'd enjoy a vacation rental somewhere near a shipping lane, where I could sit and watch the big freighters go by.

[KatieJ]

3 hours ago, mom31257 said:

Following.

We’ve talked for a couple of years about doing a trip basically around Lake Michigan. It won’t be this year but maybe in the next couple of years. 

We have been to Door County and loved it! 

There are 2 ferries that run  between Wi and Mi. You can do an “ around the lake tour “ without driving thru Chicago. 

[wintermom]

2 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

We go to the Mackinac area at the end of June every year. We spend the bulk of our time camping and hiking. St Ignace is a decent little lake town with fun July 4 festivities. Mackinac Island is the big draw there, of course, but makes a lovely day trip. Or two. The beauty of it is no cars on the island—changes the vibe for the better. 

We really enjoyed our excursion on the high-speed ferry to Mackinac Island - along with the really cool bridge on the mainland! The "horse apples" are a big attraction, along with the butterfly exhibit. There are some pretty hiking trails.

I have to admit that the Great Lakes are more obstacles to drive around than destinations, and they are enormous! It takes many, many hours to drive the north shore of Lake Superior, and it's worth the trip (at least once). The major theme song while driving along the lakeshore is, "I see rocks and trees and water, water, water!" You can sing it, too!

[catz]

We've done a few trips around and through and explored the Michigan sides too.  Some LONNGGG drives for sure.  

[sheryl]

17 hours ago, Ottakee said:

Grand Haven, Traverse City, Sleeping bear dunes area, all come to mind for Michigan

Do you want to stay in one place or travel around?

Grand Rapids MI also has a lot of what you are looking for but beach is about 45 minute drive away.

Yes, I was going to mention this but decided to read the first few replies.   Soror, it would be a beautiful time to visit the area in the summer.  DH and I are from the area.  Well, he's from WI and I'm from OH.  We've lived in WI, MI and now NC.  When we lived in MI we enjoyed the UP.  Traverse City is a must and the scenic route.  Leland and Suttons Bay.  There was one little village we visited that had an amazing board walk with little boutiques/shops.  It may have been Leland or Suttons Bay or another - just don't remember the name but those names ring a bell.   Sleeping Bear Dunes is fun - west of Glen Arbor.  If you Google, magnify until you find Glen Arbor and look west to the sandy dunes area.  A little hike will take you to the shore line of Lake MI. Take the bridge to Mackinac Island -  too fun.  If policy hasn't changed no motorized vehicles are allowed on island.   Take Shepler's Ferry to get to the island.  On the island, look or visit (may cost) the Grand Hotel which is where "Somewhere In Time" was filmed.  

[Faith-manor]

11 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Yes, I was going to mention this but decided to read the first few replies.   Soror, it would be a beautiful time to visit the area in the summer.  DH and I are from the area.  Well, he's from WI and I'm from OH.  We've lived in WI, MI and now NC.  When we lived in MI we enjoyed the UP.  Traverse City is a must and the scenic route.  Leland and Suttons Bay.  There was one little village we visited that had an amazing board walk with little boutiques/shops.  It may have been Leland or Suttons Bay or another - just don't remember the name but those names ring a bell.   Sleeping Bear Dunes is fun - west of Glen Arbor.  If you Google, magnify until you find Glen Arbor and look west to the sandy dunes area.  A little hike will take you to the shore line of Lake MI. Take the bridge to Mackinac Island -  too fun.  If policy hasn't changed no motorized vehicles are allowed on island.   Take Shepler's Ferry to get to the island.  On the island, look or visit (may cost) the Grand Hotel which is where "Somewhere In Time" was filmed.  

Yes. and if you want to stay on the island, there are actually nicer places to stay than the Grand Hotel. It is worth walking  up to the lawn and seeing or even paying for the lunch buffet. But it isn't the most comfortable and convenient places to stay. It and Mission Point are both a long way from downtown. Mission Point is actually more updated and has more amenities. There are some lovely homes converted to inns on the island and near everything. Very, very nice and sometimes less expensive than rooms at the Grand.

[sheryl]

1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

Yes. and if you want to stay on the island, there are actually nicer places to stay than the Grand Hotel. It is worth walking  up to the lawn and seeing or even paying for the lunch buffet. But it isn't the most comfortable and convenient places to stay. It and Mission Point are both a long way from downtown. Mission Point is actually more updated and has more amenities. There are some lovely homes converted to inns on the island and near everything. Very, very nice and sometimes less expensive than rooms at the Grand.

Right, I'm just merely saying to "look" and take a tour of the G. Hotel and not stay there.  We had the best fruit pie in Mackinaw City!

[Soror]

Thanks again, ladies. I'm doing some research. Traverse City and Mackinac Island both look too expensive for our budget.

I'm leaning towards Warren Dunes of the places mentioned that I've looked at--- it is just 7+ hrs away and seems to be a bit cheaper. 

I found a house in Three Oaks for a reasonable price and it looks to be only 15 minutes away.

St. Joseph looks nice but I'm worried about the crowds and I'm having a harder time finding lodging.

Also, is it just me or does MI DNR have a wretched website? I am trying to see if there were any cabins (or similar) available and I can't figure out how to see openings. We're open on dates between mid-late July to Mid August. I don't want to have to put in every combo of dates between those times to find out. 

Ds, girlfriend, and dd1 are all interested in going so I need something bigger (4  adults + 3 kids -16, 13.10)- which will be harder to find and more expensive so that narrows things down too. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Soror

[KungFuPanda]

I thought this post was going to be about cows. 

[Faith-manor]

Three Oaks is very close. There is a massive field outside of the town proper where we launch high power rockets. It is handy to I-94 both US and Business (Red Arrow Highway). The reservation system for the DNR is like all things government. Spent too much money for a product that is crap! 😡

I know the campground well and can tell you with confidence that there are only 3 mini cabins. No yurts, the cabins are sleep in but no amenities so you still need to use the campground shower house and bathrooms. The bathrooms are well kept.

Warren Dunes is NOT touristy. It is very much a wild place, and meant to remain that way. If you decide to camp there, drive by campsite 132 and say Hi to Ziggy and Roy who are the two Twinkie marshmallow addicted raccoons that live at that site despite all the humans. Our sons named those two and go back every year, stay in the same site, and deal with them trying to get into the tent. They come out in the evenings to terrorize camp even when the boys are awake, and will actually sit on the ground, next to their chairs, around the campfire ring, and beg for crumbs when they make smores. They are ridiculous, and there will be footie prints all over the table every.single.day. they will come into the tent and take up residence if you leave the opening unzipped. They will enter your camper if you leave the door open. They are the Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure frat boys of the wildlife world. So tell them we said, "Hey!" 😂

Also, there are some quaint shops in downtown Niles, Mi. And Pizza Transit as well. I highly recommend Pizza T. They have very good pizza, a bazillion combinations and are family run. They also work with the local jail to provide jobs to non violent offenders recommended by the sheriff, and have given many a reformed person a new start in life. Truly great people! St. Joseph's river runs through Niles, and the downtown park is nice for a respite from walking around or to have a picnic. When it is very busy in Pizza T., we often order to go, and then go sit in the park. It is kind of our go to place after a long day searching for rockets in a 1 square mile field.

[marbel]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

I thought this post was going to be about cows. 

Good to see you back! 💗

[Faith-manor]

Muskegon State Park, further north has yurts. Really super nice park. But to be honest, this is a very late time to plan for accommodations in our state parks. They are very popular because they are so nice, and generally from Memorial Day to Labor Day all the popular ones are booked solid and months in advance. Even for more rustic Warren Dunes, we booked our sons' campsites this year six months out. You may just need to stay vbro or ABB if you can find something and day trip into the park. The day use area is quite nice.

[Momto6inIN]

3 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Muskegon State Park, further north has yurts. Really super nice park. But to be honest, this is a very late time to plan for accommodations in our state parks. They are very popular because they are so nice, and generally from Memorial Day to Labor Day all the popular ones are booked solid and months in advance. Even for more rustic Warren Dunes, we booked our sons' campsites this year six months out. You may just need to stay vbro or ABB if you can find something and day trip into the park. The day use area is quite nice.

Yes. I booked my campsite at Muskegon 6 months ahead and by the time I was done booking there was almost nothing left at the campground.

[KungFuPanda]

6 hours ago, marbel said:

Good to see you back! 💗

Thank you. Scrolling here feels normal and comforting. Clearly my brain isn’t quite online if I’m wondering why we’re talking about cows in the Great Lakes. 

[mom31257]

9 hours ago, KatieJ said:

There are 2 ferries that run  between Wi and Mi. You can do an “ around the lake tour “ without driving thru Chicago. 

Thanks, but we actually love Chicago! We've been four times in the last decade. We have friends who live in Wheaton, so we would want to visit them, too. 

[Harriet Vane]

14 minutes ago, mom31257 said:

Thanks, but we actually love Chicago! We've been four times in the last decade. We have friends who live in Wheaton, so we would want to visit them, too. 

I love Chicago, too. I have to say, though, that I hate Chicago traffic. 😋

[mom31257]

2 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I love Chicago, too. I have to say, though, that I hate Chicago traffic. 😋

We usually stay in Wheaton and take the train in.  A fun way to avoid it! 

We drove one summer trip in Chicago, but the worst traffic of that entire trip was just south of Atlanta in Henry County. It's always bad there. 

[Faith-manor]

4 minutes ago, mom31257 said:

We usually stay in Wheaton and take the train in.  A fun way to avoid it! 

We drove one summer trip in Chicago, but the worst traffic of that entire trip was just south of Atlanta in Henry County. It's always bad there. 

We do this too. Friends in the burbs, train into the city. Parking w car in downtown Chicago is, in my book, and exercise in madness!

[Ottakee]

5 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

We do this too. Friends in the burbs, train into the city. Parking w car in downtown Chicago is, in my book, and exercise in madness!

Not when you drive to Shed’s aquarium and get the early bird parking…..I am Dutch (meaning frugal) and wanted to make sure we got a spot so we left early…..so early in fact we were the FIRST people to park in the lot AND the first in line for Shedds🤣

[Harriet Vane]

@Faith-manor @mom31257@Ottakee

Yes indeed re taking the train. Hearty agreement here. 😎

Growing up in the 'burbs, it was commonly understood that taking the train downtown is best, and then as an adult living in the city proper, I came to deeply, seriously appreciate the el. We were so glad to be able to crisscross the city using public transportation rather than dealing with parking.

I've lived for the past ten years in a much smaller midwestern city in another state, and folks here simply do not understand how awesome public transportation is. They view it as unsafe and an icky necessity for poor people. I recall an incredulous conversation I had with a local here. I suggested her 17yo daughter take a commuter bus to her summer internship downtown. My husband has taken this bus many times to work, especially when my kids were teenagers and needed a car. My friend was really offended and stated emphatically that no, she would not be expecting her teenager to "do that." I was surprised and asked, "What kind of people are you picturing on the bus? They're just people going to work." It was eye-opening for both of us, and I've had similar conversations with others in my area since then.

 

All that said, back to the OP. If you did a fabulous loop around the lake as another poster suggests, then you could enjoy a day in downtown Chicago taking advantage of the free events in the parks (concerts, dance lessons, meandering around, etc.). Or if you'd rather avoid the big city, the ferries might be a good option, too.

[BeachGal]

Indiana Dunes, south of Warren Dunes, is also a pretty area.

The restaurants south of Warren Dunes look very good. Swedish, Turkish, a fish place, etc. New Buffalo and the surrounding area is popular with people from Chicago looking to get away so probably has good food, too.

Michigan City has an outlet mall. Most of the lakeside towns in that area will likely have cute stores.

South Shore Metra train stops in Chicago around Millennium Park, close to the Art Institute. Metra occasionally has fare specials. And, I think Tuesdays are free at the Art Institute but not sure… From the Art Institute you could walk over to Revival Food Hall, a hip food court that caters to the Loop business crowd, mainly lunch. Some of those restaurants are outstanding. Everyone could pick a place they like and then eat together at a table. It’s a fun place that gets busy around lunchtime so a late lunch might be better. Study the menus before if you go. Paper Source is right next door.

[Faith-manor]

9 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

@Faith-manor @mom31257@Ottakee

Yes indeed re taking the train. Hearty agreement here. 😎

Growing up in the 'burbs, it was commonly understood that taking the train downtown is best, and then as an adult living in the city proper, I came to deeply, seriously appreciate the el. We were so glad to be able to crisscross the city using public transportation rather than dealing with parking.

I've lived for the past ten years in a much smaller midwestern city in another state, and folks here simply do not understand how awesome public transportation is. They view it as unsafe and an icky necessity for poor people. I recall an incredulous conversation I had with a local here. I suggested her 17yo daughter take a commuter bus to her summer internship downtown. My husband has taken this bus many times to work, especially when my kids were teenagers and needed a car. My friend was really offended and stated emphatically that no, she would not be expecting her teenager to "do that." I was surprised and asked, "What kind of people are you picturing on the bus? They're just people going to work." It was eye-opening for both of us, and I've had similar conversations with others in my area since then.

 

All that said, back to the OP. If you did a fabulous loop around the lake as another poster suggests, then you could enjoy a day in downtown Chicago taking advantage of the free events in the parks (concerts, dance lessons, meandering around, etc.). Or if you'd rather avoid the big city, the ferries might be a good option, too.

I think one of the most important things we did with our rocket team when traveling was to teach them to use public transportation. It isn't a thing here in our rural area, and many of the kids we had on our team over that ten year period had never traveled to a major city, a large number of them having never been more than 50 miles from home. So when going to D.C. and other huge metropolitan areas, it was important to us to park the van, and give them new experiences. By the time they graduated high school, they had all used the train into D.C. numerous times, could figure out the maps and stops, purchase their own tickets. They had taken the bus in more than one city. Wee even taught them how to hail a cab, and calculate tips. Several of them have graduated college and gotten jobs far from home in large cities, one of our first rocketeers lives in Chicago now.

We had to just do it though. We didn't publish using public transportation as part of the itinerary of the trip because parents here were so fearful. We just arrived at our destinations, parked, and "Hey kids, we will be taking the train into the city. This is how you determine your stop. This is how you purchase tickets. Let's discuss train etiquette." Their parents who were so fearful would hear about it after the fact, and then often were a bit incredulous that it was so easy, and not fraught with danger. One of our rather not-afraid-to-speak-his-mind teens said to his mom, "You shouldn't watch anymore Die Hard and Mission Impossible movies. That stuff doesn't happen, mom!" I just about choked trying not to laugh! 😂😂😂

We had a STEM engagement speaking engagement in Chicago one time so we took Amtrak with them. They loved it!

If Amtrak would beef up departure/arrival times to more than once per day, and have another route besides Chicago from here, we would take it a lot. I wish there were more investment in rail. Honestly, with as popular as Lake Michigan is with out of state folks if they offered some sort of scenic rail tour from Chicago to Traverse Bay, I think it would be very popular.