gardenmom5 Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 I'm not going to ask Rosie to unlock the other thread. It's been very very busy. I'm awake now because a gs cried in the night and woke me up (a common occurrence. . . . he went back to sleep, and I'm still awake. . . sigh.) dd felt strongly prompted by the spirit to talk to dsil. She made the right decision. I understand and appreciate everyone's concern. But this is not your adverse experiences. I'm on the ground here and know what is going on firsthand. dsil's otp reaction (that started while he was still in the hospital) was as much about fear of pain (as he had been in a lot of pain since the accident) as enjoying the high. The complex back surgery was successful, and his pain has been greatly reduced. He is healing. The pain meds he's currently on are tame compared to what he's been on for the last four months. (Let alone when he was in the hospital after surgery, and the rehab unit inappropriately administered to him. - dd still wants to consult a malpractice lawyer - just to get the hospital to install pharmacy software from this century and have better training and oversight for nurses administering those drugs, - the nurses were administering the drugs at the same time when they were supposed to be a minimum of an hour apart). now - to get him through rehab/PT - it leaves him exhausted. dsil - you are healing, it takes energy . . . He is himself and I'm perfectly comfortable around him. if dd wants him to get rid of the guns, he will. The morning they spoke, he was preparing to sell all of them to his friend that lives in another state if that's what it would take to make dd happy. he was going to pack them up and haul them off in a uhaul trailer. (dsil - you do not have the strength or stamina to drive that distance . . . . . he still would have tried.) again - he is himself. He is off the meds (and out of/away from other influences) that had so drastically negatively altered his personality. I came from a narcissistic abusive background - I have a pretty good (even slightly paranoic at times) "radar" for mind games/etc. I feel complete calm. These last few months have been a rollercoaster (with a really big drop that left our stomachs at the top, screaming, shaking, and clutching for stability) - but the worst is past, and we are moving forward towards better things. calling off the EPO (which had been signed) actually has legal hoops - it's not as simple as just saying "I don't want/need this after all". the court gets to stick in its oar. but he's himself, they're all back in the same house and things can start being put back together (including the house itself since they had to move back from CA). I'm here for a few more days to help get things stabilized (put stuff away, get kids back on their schedule in their own house, etc) and then i get to go home. (maybe my Amarillys will still have blossoms on it - for the first time in four years . . it was nothing but a stem with a bud starting to shoot up when I left.) thank you to all of those who have offered support and many prayers the last few months. 22 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 I really hope he’s not just back to himself. I hope he’s appalled at what he’s done. Not just “willing to do things to appease your DD,” but also willing to go to therapy and explore his behavior. I’m glad he seems better. I hope this sticks. But I’m worried about your DD. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassia Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Thank you for the update. I'm glad the worst seems to be over and hope this all just becomes a very bad memory. Wishing them and you all the best. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said: I really hope he’s not just back to himself. I hope he’s appalled at what he’s done. Not just “willing to do things to appease your DD,” but also willing to go to therapy and explore his behavior. I’m glad he seems better. I hope this sticks. But I’m worried about your DD. DD' situation is NOT *your* experience. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 I hope you’re right and this is all behind you. I wish your family all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
math teacher Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 I'm so glad things are working out for them. I hope their relationship will be even stronger and they can use it to grow. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Tiggywinkle Again Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Because these type of injuries do tend to cause chronic pain, they may want to start considering having a list of alternative things to try just in case. If we’d had a list or even doctors willing to talk about anything other than PT and opiates, some things might have been easier. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 The guns need to go. They really, truly do. The fact that Shoot People!!! Is where his brain goes when in extremis means that he is not and cannot be a reliable gun owner. It is absolutely wonderful that he is doing so much better with reduced pain and off the mind-altering meds, but that knee-jerk reaction when pushed to the brink tells you and him something that you all need to listen to. You have no guarantee at all that there won't be a next time, some crisis that pushes his brain right back to that dark and dangerous not-him place. If this ends up being the one and only time in his life that his brain function slides into irrational territory that would be wonderful; that is not something I would bet the lives of his wife and kids on. You know I'm an advocate for compassion and understanding for mental health struggles--I don't condemn people because of a physical organ (the brain) malfunctioning. But I absolutely take that malfunction seriously and see addressing it and its repercussions as critical. One repercussion of your SIL's experience with a malfunctioning brain is that he has learned he cannot be a reliable owner of firearms. From this point forward he needs to make decisions that take that new information into account. The guns absolutely need to go. I'd personally likely be OK with him selling most of them (including any handguns) and storing one or two hunting rifles with his hunting buddy. I will pray for his continued recovery and for things to be well and go only uphill for the entire family. 25 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Thank you for updating us. I'm glad it's going well. I hope that people here take care in their responses to you. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 May everything continue to go in a positive and safe direction. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 This is a good update! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said: Because these type of injuries do tend to cause chronic pain, they may want to start considering having a list of alternative things to try just in case. If we’d had a list or even doctors willing to talk about anything other than PT and opiates, some things might have been easier. The frustrating thing is "chronic pain" is defined as 'pain for *at least* a year'. He'd been referred to a chronic pain clinic before surgery, and they turned him away because his injury was too recent. But - the surgery was successful in that his pain has been greatly reduced. he is more mobile, but he has a long way to go as he had so much muscle atrophy. being out of the brace is more exhausting than painful. (he's supposed to be out of it five hours a day). He still has oxycontin - but is taking a lot less than before surgery (e.g. 5mg if needed in an entire day vs 60mg every day and wishing he could have more because of pain) - and not taking either of the drugs from the hospital that changed his personality. (slipping down a few steps yesterday didn't help . . . he was ordered back to the ER for x-rays and to check him out and make sure nothing was reinjured. he's fine.) usually, "back injury" would go to the least invasive surgery and just use screws. The dr in AZ wanted to do that. That surgery does NOT have a good success rate and further surgery (or two) is often warranted a few years later to try to resolve continuing pain. The dr here - went for a very invasive procedure first, skipping all those middle steps. a intervertebral spinal cage, and they remove a rib to use as the bone source for the graft. It's usually successful. and if the proof is in the pudding - he's already in noticeably less pain. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idalou Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) Let's hope the spirit prompts her to say yes, husband, for the safety of our children, since you chose to put our lives in danger once due to other people's mistakes and your body reacting in ways we never imagined, please empty our home of the uhaul sized cache of guns. Edited March 11, 2023 by Idalou 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drama Llama Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Thank you for the update. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSera Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 2 hours ago, maize said: One repercussion of your SIL's experience with a malfunctioning brain is that he has learned he cannot be a reliable owner of firearms. Agree 100% with everything in Maize’s post. The guns aren’t protecting him and his family, they are putting them all at higher risk and he needs to not have any access. 30 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said: He still has oxycontin - but is taking a lot less than before surgery Other than the guns, this is the thing that most made my heart sink when I got to it. He can not be taking any oxy and be safe. Combining ibuprofen and Tylenol is shown to be just as effective without the high risk of addiction. I don’t understand why he is back on any OxyContin at all given what just happened. There needs to not be any oxy on the house, and I’m concerned what his reaction to that will be and how he’s going to do dropping it completely. I worry that for whatever reason, your dd isn’t appreciating the risk the oxy is, and has instead pinned all the issues as being only due to the other med. I’m glad he’s doing much better. I hope he is beside himself horrified with how he has acted and the the things he has done and willing to do whatever he must to make things right again (part of which is getting rid of the guns and never having opioids again, but I still think he needs some drug rehab as well). How does it work that he’s in violation of the EPO now? You said he can’t just reverse it easily, so could he be arrested for being in contempt of it? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 41 minutes ago, KSera said: Agree 100% with everything in Maize’s post. The guns aren’t protecting him and his family, they are putting them all at higher risk and he needs to not have any access. Other than the guns, this is the thing that most made my heart sink when I got to it. He can not be taking any oxy and be safe. Combining ibuprofen and Tylenol is shown to be just as effective without the high risk of addiction. I don’t understand why he is back on any OxyContin at all given what just happened. There needs to not be any oxy on the house, and I’m concerned what his reaction to that will be and how he’s going to do dropping it completely. I worry that for whatever reason, your dd isn’t appreciating the risk the oxy is, and has instead pinned all the issues as being only due to the other med. I’m glad he’s doing much better. I hope he is beside himself horrified with how he has acted and the the things he has done and willing to do whatever he must to make things right again (part of which is getting rid of the guns and never having opioids again, but I still think he needs some drug rehab as well). How does it work that he’s in violation of the EPO now? You said he can’t just reverse it easily, so could he be arrested for being in contempt of it? It's combined with ibuprofen. And a lot less is needed 0than before. Mostly he's tired. I'm getting really tired of saying this, but... He was on two different drugs in the hospital that current pharmacy practice won't combine. They drastically changed his personality. He recognizes his personality changed. He's not on either of them now. He won't be again. (A lot of places still will use them - but it's not up to current standard and newer pharmacy software will flag them when dispensed to the same patient. Before doing surgery - ask you hospital about their software...) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSera Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said: I'm getting really tired of saying this, but... He was on two different drugs in the hospital that current pharmacy practice won't combine. They drastically changed his personality. I totally get that. He was also in OxyContin withdrawal at the exact same time, so it’s impossible to know what’s what. There’s no way after that long on oxy and given his drug seeking behaviors that he wasn’t suffering with oxy withdrawal as well, despite whatever was also happening with the mystery cocktail. Oxy addiction and withdrawal is horrendous. He’s currently still taking oxy. The fact that it’s a low dose should be an easy reason to tell him he doesn’t need something that strong anymore and can switch to Tylenol plus ibuprofen. His pharmacist wife should be able to convince him of that. It’s very risky that he is still on it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 I don't have much to add but @gardenmom5...being on the ground is important. You are there, we are not. Drug reactions are real. We knew a lovely man (so together and stable and successful) who was stabbed by an intruder. He had several surgeries and was put on some pretty odd med combos. He left the hospital not himself and 4 days out of the hospital he shot himself in the head. I honest to goodness think it was the meds and not him at all. If your DSIL was not on these crazy meds and he had patterns of abuse that would be different. I still think caution is wise but medication reactions are real. 1 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 I tried to share what are promising updates. Positive things after months of difficulties. I'm sorry so many seem to think I lack discernment. I've asked Rosie to lock this thread too. I will no longer post on this subject. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSera Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) I’m actually really glad to hear the positive things. You may not remember, but starting from the first posts in the hospital where you were looking for divorce information, I was very much on the side of feeling like that was too quick to jump to and all along I felt like this sounded like a drug issue and if he could just get the drug issue resolved it didn’t mean they needed to divorce. I’d love them to have that happy outcome, and I think it’s totally possible with drugs out of the mix. eta: and I really apologize if I felt like a pile on in this thread. I’ve just been really concerned about him and the oxy issues ever since the December thread where nobody would give him any more and he ended up finding a way to get it anyway. And I definitely understand the other thread from a couple days ago having been way too much. I hope you can at least see that it stems from people caring about you and by proxy your daughter. Edited March 11, 2023 by KSera 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) I know it's hard when people are worried instead of rejoicing with you. I'm sure it must feel like a tremendous relief to you that he's back to himself. I'm sure I speak for lots of people when I say we'd like to hear more updates whenever you're ready, whether positive or negative. I didn't post for months and months when I was finding feedback unhelpful and overwhelming, so I understand. You and your family will be in my thoughts. Edited March 11, 2023 by Not_a_Number 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drama Llama Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 I can absolutely relate to being in a difficult situation and having people here second guess choices based on limited information. There's a difference between people making suggestions, and offering information that you might not know, and yelling at people for making a different decision. I've been on the receiving end of both, and they are very different. These are, in the end, @gardenmom5's DD's choices to make, with advice and support from her mom. Of course we all hope that the choices she makes lead to safety, but the reality is that there are no crystal balls, and no easy paths. I'll be praying for their physical and emotional safety, and that your DSIL continues to heal physically. Let me know if you want me to delete any posts that you think shared too much info. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Tiggywinkle Again Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) Before it locks, feel free to PM me if you ever want to. I left almost all the details out but we walked this road minus the violence. Now I can say it strengthened our marriage, but I still often have memories intrude of things my usually loving and compassionate DH said and did during that time that are extremely painful. If nothing else, I hope your DD is okay with seeking some therapy because she has been traumatized, too. All the love and please feel free to reach out. Edited March 11, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatfirstsip Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 When you said in the first thread got his behavior had radically changed and you wanted advice for divorce, I said maybe you should take a second to wait since it was only a drug combination that he had gotten in the hospital. At that time you said no, this has been going on for months, he's been acting jealous and irrational for at least three or four months while on the oxy. The idea that he isn't cognizant right now of the need to give up all of his guns to keep his family safe indicates to me that this situation is not resolved. Good luck. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) My concern is does he have a plan if his pain escalates? Say he tweaks something or has a bad fall- what is the plan to address his pain without putting his family in danger? What safeguards are in place so that this doesn’t happen again? Edited March 11, 2023 by ktgrok 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 I’m glad things are better. Hopefully she has some support with the kids lined up and if stressors increase after you leave. There is still a lot on her plate and a long way to go for his health . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 I think it’s okay for a timeline to take a little more time. I think it can take time to make and act on some plans. It doesn’t mean there’s not good faith to do it. I would not drop the gun issue or the medication issue, but I think it’s okay for it to take some time. I don’t think anyone can know where things will be 6 months or a year for now. I hope things are in a positive direction. If not I think there are more options then. I think I have read that couples have a decent chance of changing an abusive dynamic if they can get help on the early side before things are set in a certain way. And I think she has done a lot to show “I won’t accept this kind of behavior.” Anyway, I really hope things work out for them. And if not, there is family support! I think that counts for so much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Listen to what Gardenmom is saying. She doesn't need people telling her she or her dd are wrong. She doesn't need that at all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa Louise Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Nm. Just at least listen to Maize upthread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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