thanks

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[Melissa Louise]

She's part of the that side of the family's dynamics.

Honestly, they probably all need some therapy, because at least two of them seem to have a susceptibility to extreme irrationality as part of a mental illness presentation. Family dynamics always play a (greater or lesser role) in mental illness - I'm not judging - my eldest has a mental illness.

So the question in terms of how you respond is really, what is your role in this family system, which was built before me, and will continue on after me?

For SIL you're the scapegoat.

Everything wrong is down to you. You're to blame.

I hope as her PDD improves she does continue to be a little better, but in the meantime, there is no really good response.

There is a a bad response (get angry/can't happen due to circumstances), a good response (no contact/can't happen because of circumstances) and then just varieties of trying to manage each instance until she improves or your kids age out of you having to interact with her at all.

Grey rock is your only real friend. Be uninteresting to her. Have a rote excuse to get away when she next rants at you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Melissa Louise

[Drama Llama]

....

Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[Acadie]

7 hours ago, BandH said:

I think the idea of going into the interaction knowing she'll ask for something, and just planning it that way makes sense. 

Mulling over this dynamic, I think that with a relationship like this it's not possible to get to a better place in terms of trust, mutual support, or emotional reliability. 

It's great she chose the supportive thing when it mattered. It shows she has an occasional healthy impulse and that it's worth it to make a little effort to keep the peace. But when you are the container or projection screen for someone else's insecurity and uncomfortable emotion, that can rear its head anytime. It's like emotional whiplash when it occurs again, after an interval that felt more supportive or drama-free.

Strategies to avoid triggering her issues like decreasing contact, not making waves and reducing the emotional drain for yourself can give you some relief. But I just don't see potential for real growth in the relationship. Triggered by stress or emotional discomfort I think SIL will just revert to jealousy and scapegoating again. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[Not_a_Number]

I do think dealing with difficult people gets at least somewhat easier when you stop expecting them not to be difficult. At least, it has for me. 

[LaughingCat]

10 hours ago, BandH said:

I think the idea of going into the interaction knowing she'll ask for something, and just planning it that way makes sense. 

I think the other half of that idea is don't name everything you've already planned to cover her potential issues -- that way those plans can be offered up for her approval  "you're right! they might not have enough to eat -- what about fruit? -- I have some I can cut up for <kids>" (but still planning for the extra ask as well)

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[Rosie_0801]

I'm gonna sprain my eyes rolling them at that woman.

 

[Drama Llama]

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Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[Rosie_0801]

23 minutes ago, BandH said:

Be careful!  I mean, I've already ruined her children's nutrition.  Would hate to have your eyeballs on my conscious too!

 

Will you feel better if I go eat some peas?

[Drama Llama]

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Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[Harriet Vane]

There you go, trying to deprive her children all over again. Tsk, tsk... 🙄

 

Seriously though, well played. And bravo to you for laughing about it. 🙂

[happi duck]

I still think competition comes into play here.

You're the food person and she is trying to compete with that by creating a thing you're doing "wrong".

You not joining the competition would be just doing your thing and not dragging anyone else into it or comparing meals.  By telling the dad and quizzing the kid you were competing.

Ime, someone needs to stop competing for things to calm down.  You seem to want the dynamic to change so it'll need to be you.

My two cents, ymmv

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[katilac]

4 hours ago, BandH said:

<snip> 

So, last night at bedtime, she asked her 8 year old what she had for dinner, and the 8 year old told her.  Within minutes I had texts saying that she thought we had "settled" last weekend that the kids needed a green vegetable.  I didn't respond at all.  <snip> 

Today we went over again to eat dinner and watch a hockey game, but this time FIL fixed dinner.  I mentioned that she was concerned that I hadn't gotten DN8 to eat anything green enough, and that maybe he should make peas.  So, he did.  He must have said something to her though, because I just got a text accusing me of telling on her.  Which I kind of did, I must admit.  

Not responding at all would mean not not telling FIL about it, which was probably way more exciting for her than if you had responded to her. 

Ignore, ignore, ignore. Do not feed the troll. It's really hard to do, but I promise it pays off. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[katilac]

6 minutes ago, BandH said:

Except that I literally did that for years, and things got steadily worse.  

I don't know what her father said, because I wasn't there, but I imagine it was something like "We have a deal. If you want the kids to come, you need to let us choose what to feed them."  That's a reasonable boundary for him to set.  

If there wasn't this crazy dynamic me saying to him "She asked that they eat some green vegetables, what about peas with dinner?" would be a kindness.  

Sure, but there is this craziness. 

Things did not get steadily worse bc you ignored the crazy. They got steadily worse bc she got steadily worse. 

Things will be better, imo, if, in the context of the current level of crazy, you do not respond. Beyond her initial text, she said nothing until she accused you of telling on her, a clear reference to you speaking to FIL. But it's still worth not responding in any case. If nothing else, it takes less of your time and energy. Bc if you respond, she will respond, and you're going back and froth. 

Might she bring it up in person when you next see her? Yes, she might, but you've skipped all the stuff in between, and you can blandly respond that you didn't agree to that, but she's certainly welcome to send her kids with peas every single time. You ignored her text message? You've been busy, you thought you responded, you don't check them often, you figured you'd talk next time you saw her, whatever. 

You've not going to avoid all nonsense and annoyance, bc she'll bring those to the table no matter what you do. But you don't have to waste time reacting every time she sends a text. And I would honestly never initiate a text with her, and I'd not respond to those she sends to me unless it was extremely important, Which it rarely will be, bc if she supposedly needs to know what time dinner is, she can text someone else, or show up at the usual time. 

If she texts to ask about the menu, just don't answer her. Why did you ignore my text? I was busy cooking, my phone died, my phone was in the other room, I thought I did respond, I miss a lot of text messages (no need to specify 'a lot of your text messages), whatever. 

[Drama Llama]

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Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[katilac]

I think the weirdest bit of all might be an 8-yr-old who accurately reports what was had for dinner, down to the multiple side dishes. 

[Drama Llama]

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Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[katilac]

6 minutes ago, BandH said:

Really? 

My kids could tell you what they had for dinner at that age.  I'm sure she asked multiple questions.  

A couple hours after dinner your kids couldn't tell you what they ate?  

 

Eh, there were multiple things, including additional fruits and vegetables beyond the brussels sprouts. 

My kids haven't been 8 in a long time, but, going by various niblings in that age range, I'd say most of them don't notice or care enough to remember what was on the table beyond what they chose to eat. Or perhaps what they particularly hate, lol. My kids would have thought I was crazy if they ate dinner at auntie's house and I wanted a line item listing of main, starch, multiple vegetables, multiple fruits, and oh yes, was there bread on the side as well? 

Would they remember what they personally ate? Probably, if it was 'chicken and potatoes and salad,' but they certainly might forgot an item or two if there were multiple choices. Because really not an important thing to track for most kids. 

But also - the question was not truly what did you, personally, eat? but rather what choices were on the table? and no, I don't think most kids care enough to recreate the options they did not choose to eat. She did not want to know if her kid actually ate a green veg, she wanted to know if it was available. 

[Drama Llama]

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Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[SKL]

I wouldn't have suggested peas to FIL, but since you did, hopefully she'll dial it back after being "told on."

I still think you are way too invested in not only planning perfect meals, but being recognized for planning perfect meals.

How many years before none of this matters any more, because your kids will be adults and their aunt, dad, etc will have zero power over them?  Believe me, the years will fly by.  Whether anyone ate a green vegetable (or anything healthy at all) at any meal will mean nothing.

When I used to suffer in certain difficult dynamics, I came up with a phrase to say in my head - "lose first."  Be like the willow tree.  Let it wash over you.  It can't change you inside.  Being right, best, first, or even "not last" does not actually matter.  IMO we need to fight the tendency to hold our position on things that don't actually matter.

 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 28, 2023 by BandH

[Not_a_Number]

So, the idea of being a "gray rock" is to be maximally boring. I'm personally awful at being a gray rock unless I just don't engage with someone at all. I get too wound up. 

I'm going to guess not responding to her texts isn't working as a "gray rock" thing, because I bet she gets frustrated when you don't. Do you ever respond, or does the text chain literally look just like messages from her? 

[Scarlett]

10 hours ago, BandH said:

I think that expecting not to be yelled at via text, and in person, for a meal isn't the same as wanting to be recognized for it.  

 

Agree.   She is ridiculous.

 

[Drama Llama]

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Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[TechWife]

On 3/5/2023 at 3:14 AM, katilac said:

I think the weirdest bit of all might be an 8-yr-old who accurately reports what was had for dinner, down to the multiple side dishes. 

If you were aware on some level that your mommy had food control issues, you would remember.

[SKL]

Side topic about kids remembering food ... when my kids were young, the only way I could get them to tell me about their day at preschool / school was to ask about the food.

"How was your day?"

"Good."

"Anything interesting happen?"

"No."

"What did you have for lunch?"

"Spaghetti and apples."

"Was it good?"

"Yeah ... and Ryan sat next to me and bla bla bla bla...."

Edited March 6, 2023 by SKL

[freesia]

15 minutes ago, TechWife said:

If you were aware on some level that your mommy had food control issues, you would remember.

Yes, but also if it’s part of family discussion in your family for whatever reason. I’ve always been interested in what my kids eat other places—not bc I want to judge ur criticize but bc I want ideas or I find it interesting. So my kids grew up with this question.  I don’t find it odd at all that he answered and knew. 

[Drama Llama]

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Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Idalou]

Are these family dinners even fun? It seems like the kids would be anxious about their parent's issues, and then multiple family members on edge, worrying if there will be a freak out, waiting for some nutritional challenge outburst to happen, knowing that everyone is suspected of something. I hope not, but from what I have read over the past months, they sound very fraught with tension. There's no way my stomach could handle that.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Idalou

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Idalou said:

Are these family dinners even fun? It seems like the kids would be anxious about their parent's issues, and then multiple family members on edge, worrying if there will be a freak out, waiting for some nutritional challenge outburst to happen, knowing that everyone is suspected of something. I hope not, but from what I have read over the past months, they sound very fraught with tension. There's no way my stomach could handle that.

TBH I feel the same way when I read about these issues.  I hope that is not the case as far as the kids are concerned.  I'm not fancy about food, but I try not to allow food and stress to mix if I can help it.

[Idalou]

22 minutes ago, SKL said:

TBH I feel the same way when I read about these issues.  I hope that is not the case as far as the kids are concerned.  I'm not fancy about food, but I try not to allow food and stress to mix if I can help it.

It's easy to see the love her family has for each other, and the heartache of having members with such mental distress. I don't know what she can do to lessen her SIL's manipulations, but I know what I would do if it was my family, and I can certainly picture how ulcer inducing it would be for me if I had to be a part of regular meals like that.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Idalou

[LaughingCat]

Reading the additional info (group vs private text & never responding) - I would put SIL on silent mode in the private text chain and not read at all anything she sent there (just delete it without reading).  If she ever said anything about it, I would say I had not seen her texts (and act clueless if she pushed it -- but there are other options if clueless doesn't work for you)   

Or another option -- I put my brother on silent mode like this when he went bananas in his texts after my Dad died but unfortunately he refused to participate in group texts, so I needed to still read and respond to his texts (I was executor) -- BUT I would only read them all at once sometime later -- at a time that was good for me, knowing that chances were high that I would be upset after reading them. 

[Clarita]

I don't think gray rock is going to magically stop a crazy person's behavior, but if you start the path of thinking like a gray rock then you stop caring about the words that are being said to you. Even in the many success stories of using gray rock on this forum the crazy person continues to grumble in the corner and at anytime has barely a semblance of an audience continues the mean comments. It's just that there is no way to un-crazy a person unless they want to be un-crazied. 

If what she says starts to be an actual threat then steps need to be done to remove yourself and your kids from that threat. Or if there is danger that is starting to happen (like domestic violence) you should be taking steps to remove yourself completely from this person. That does not seem to be what's going on. From what I gather of this conversation she doesn't pose any real threat, she just says mean things. 

[Not_a_Number]

Yeah. Of course you don't want to do things that frustrate her MORE. Any tactic that results in her being even more upset is obviously a loss. 

I assume you're similar to me in that you just do NOT have the bandwidth to cope with this. Like, you have enough going on with your DH and your kids. You don't need someone to be adding fuel to the fire. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Not_a_Number]

The accurate thing is that she's a threat via riling up your husband, if I remember correctly. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Not_a_Number]

I think the question is whether she'd be angrier if you told her that you weren't checking her messages for a bit because you needed a break than she is now. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Not_a_Number]

I take it you've tried blocking her for a prolonged period before and that was the outcome? 

[Melissa Louise]

Not all problems have solutions, sadly.

There is no optimal way to respond, other than what you are already doing.

I don't think anyone can help refine that.

You just have to endure till your kids age out of having to see/deal with Dad.

Hopefully that's not too far away for the eldest.

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Not_a_Number]

Yeah. So then that's obviously not the answer. That's too bad, because a reset can be helpful for everyone. But it's obvious that you're present in her head even if you don't reply. 

Here's a serious question: do you ever have interactions that don't feel tense? ANYTHING at all that makes you feel warm towards her and vice versa? 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Not_a_Number

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Not all problems have solutions, sadly.

There is no optimal way to respond, other than what you are already doing.

I don't think anyone can help refine that.

You just have to endure till your kids age out of having to see/deal with Dad.

Hopefully that's not too far away for the eldest.

QFT.

@BandH I think you do an amazing job of handling her.  

[LaughingCat]

I think of blocking as actually putting the contact as "block this caller" -- which I understand means the person can't call or text me at all.  So then blocking would mean you didn't see her group texts either-- if so, I can see that being an issue the way you all seem to interact on that.   

FWIW, I wasn't suggesting blocking -- just silencing (which is actually called "hide alerts" when I just looked at it).  So you don't hear any "ding" or pop-up but you can still see any messages if and when you care to look at them (and it still shows # of unread messages).   It only applies to that particular text "channel/ thread? " --so only the private text thing with her would be quiet and any group texting she did would still ding as normal.  It's not blocking her, it's just silencing that particular text thread so it doesn't "ding" or give pop-ups on the screen.  (Note: this is all on iphone, I assume android would have similar)

For me, it made a big difference just not having the multiple "dings" (where I knew he was blasting me with accusations) and a second big difference of letting me be able to wait and look at the texts when I was ready to deal with them (instead of when he sent them).   Both of which made it far easier to shrug off the BS.