You're driving your son and his fiancee...

[Jean in Newcastle]

5 minutes ago, LaughingCat said:

I believe I picked up the word lonely from another post - a better choice would have been "excluded from the conversation" I suppose. 

IME, it is much easier to be included in a front seat conversation from the back (if you are interested enough to do so which I often am not) -- then to be included in a backseat conversation from the front (ETA: especially as the driver, who cannot turn their head to the back).    So IMO leaving the driver alone is more excluding the driver vs leaving one passenger alone lets them decide if they want to do the work to be included or not (especially when the "shotgun" person tries to include them). 

And FWIW I've sat in the back alone many, many times -- including when I was my DH's fiancee and was meeting his parents for the first time.  I did not feel like a "vulnerable stranger" as someone else posted -- I  just felt like I was sitting in the back seat.  No different than any other time I've been the one sitting in the back seat.    I'm just not getting what's the big deal with sitting in the back?    It's not some horrible, unacceptable spot, only do-able if someone else is sitting back there with you. 

I also agree with this.  Especially the "no big deal to be in the back" part.  Which is why I don't care what configuration ends up happening organically.  It's just a few hours out of relationships which (presumably) will be forged for decades.  And it wouldn't make me feel any particular emotion for the duration. 

When we've had drivers in countries where drivers are a thing, we talked freely with the drivers in friendly conversation.  Much like you would with a cabbie, I guess.  Not that I would think of myself as a chauffeur or a cabbie.  The depth of conversation is dependent on the relationship there, not the seat in the car.

[LaughingCat]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

I picture a mom and son easily engaging in conversation while next to each other in the front seat, with fiance having to work hard to hear and participate from the back, and how that could make fiance feel not enthusiastically included ... especially on a long car drive.

There's nothing wrong with sitting in the back.  Personally I prefer it when with housemates or work colleagues ... more chance to be left with my own thoughts vs. carrying a conversation.  But when there's a need to build relationships with new family members, I'd err on the side of enthusiastic inclusion.

This is a confusing argument to me -- because the engaged couple being put in the back should have already built their relationship?  This argument towards building a relationship would actually go more towards putting the fiancee in front with the mom IMO -- which personally I would not have wanted until after I knew the DH's parents well (short trips would be fine -- but not an hour and a half).

And IMO it is the front seat passenger's job to include the back seat and not just chat with the driver --the front passenger spot is the one with the most control to include both driver and backseat in the conversation.   Neither backseat spot has that kind of ability to include the driver.   So if the son is in the front seat and not including his fiancee, that is a different issue. 

[LaughingCat]

Also wanted to add -- this is also where all those variables come in IMO. 

For example, when DH's dad drove us from airport to house (over an hour) -- not yet DH and I had just sat next to each other for 2+ hours on the airplane and DH had not seen his Dad in person for over 6 months -- I do not see any reading of that situation where it would have been ok for him to sit in the back with me thinking that would somehow make me feel better/safer/less vulnerable?   even if I were completely stressed out about meeting his family -- I would not have wanted DH to sit in back with me.  If he had tried, I would have told him to sit in front with his Dad. 

Say OP does not know her son's fiancee well but fiance and son see each other regularly -- then I would generally expect son to sit in front passenger and facilitate a conversation that includes both Mom with fiancee (or not as he understands fiancee's preferences)

But maybe fiancee is a chatty Cathy type person and son is quiet -- then I would expect the fiancee to sit in front passenger seat and work to include son (or not as she understands son's preferences). 

Maybe son and fiancee have not seen each other in some time -- then I would expect they would want to sit together (and if I were driver I would tell them they should sit together in back)

Etc. Etc.  

However, son sitting in front and leaving fiancee out of conversation -- that is not an argument that son should sit in back, that is an argument that son needs some car etiquette hints. 

[Amethyst]

13 hours ago, SHP said:

Other: I have my husband drive. 

No fair. Dh os not coming on this trip! Lol

[Amethyst]

2 hours ago, busymama7 said:

This thread is so interesting.   I would expect the couple to sit together and wouldn't think it weird to be "chaufeurring" at all.   

I drive alone all the time and I’m not lonely. But this is different. I am with people. I want to be interacting. 

[Amethyst]

21 minutes ago, LaughingCat said:

Also wanted to add -- this is also where all those variables come in IMO. 

For example, when DH's dad drove us from airport to house (over an hour) -- not yet DH and I had just sat next to each other for 2+ hours on the airplane and DH had not seen his Dad in person for over 6 months -- I do not see any reading of that situation where it would have been ok for him to sit in the back with me thinking that would somehow make me feel better/safer/less vulnerable?   even if I were completely stressed out about meeting his family -- I would not have wanted DH to sit in back with me.  If he had tried, I would have told him to sit in front with his Dad. 

Say OP does not know her son's fiancee well but fiance and son see each other regularly -- then I would generally expect son to sit in front passenger and facilitate a conversation that includes both Mom with fiancee (or not as he understands fiancee's preferences)

But maybe fiancee is a chatty Cathy type person and son is quiet -- then I would expect the fiancee to sit in front passenger seat and work to include son (or not as she understands son's preferences). 

Maybe son and fiancee have not seen each other in some time -- then I would expect they would want to sit together (and if I were driver I would tell them they should sit together in back)

Etc. Etc.  

However, son sitting in front and leaving fiancee out of conversation -- that is not an argument that son should sit in back, that is an argument that son needs some car etiquette hints. 

Good points. Lots of variables. Son and fiancee live together. They met each other when they lived several states away. So, we’ve been with her in person maybe 15 times. They now live much closer but still an hour away. I like her a lot and I think she’s pretty comfortable with me, but she’s not a chatty Cathy. Nor is my son (although interestingly he has become a better conversationalist since meeting her). Neither of them are tall. And according to my daughters, my backseat is pretty tight (I wouldn’t know). 

 

[SKL]

1 hour ago, LaughingCat said:

This is a confusing argument to me -- because the engaged couple being put in the back should have already built their relationship?  This argument towards building a relationship would actually go more towards putting the fiancee in front with the mom IMO -- which personally I would not have wanted until after I knew the DH's parents well (short trips would be fine -- but not an hour and a half).

And IMO it is the front seat passenger's job to include the back seat and not just chat with the driver --the front passenger spot is the one with the most control to include both driver and backseat in the conversation.   Neither backseat spot has that kind of ability to include the driver.   So if the son is in the front seat and not including his fiancee, that is a different issue. 

I meant me building my relationship with my future DIL ... I meant it would be better than having my son in the front and his fiance alone in the back.

I initially voted for both in the back because I figured they would have more to discuss with each other than either would want to discuss with me.  But that depends on many things I guess.  I guess there may be an assumption by many that the couple lives together or otherwise has nothing new to share, but that wasn't my assumption going in.  I guess tbh I first pictured it as me being a chauffer the way I am for my kids.  The OP says "you're driving your son and his fiance" vs. "you're driving with your son and his fiance" which read differently to me.

I agree the front seat passenger should make an effort to include the backseat passenger, but if the goal is to have a 3-way conversation, to me it makes sense to put the "newer" person in the place most accessible to both of the others.

[dsmith]

I don't like to drive long distances, so I'd let the son drive unless he was a terrible driver, and take the back so they can talk. This is how my mil handled it when she was driving, and my mom too, if we were going somewhere in her car. My preference most times is to only drive with dh as the driver, because I don't know how there haven't been more accidents the way most family members drive!

[QueenCat]

I don't like other people driving my car. I'd drive. I'd ask the fiancee where she would like to sit. Then I'd ask ds where he wants to sit. Both of my boys have long legs and would be uncomfortable in the back, but it'd be up to them. 

No matter where everyone sits, everyone needs to be included in conversation. 

[marbel]

I voted obligatory other: it all depends on the people and relationships: how comfortable everyone is together, who gets carsick, who likes to drive, who doesn't like to drive, who is the better navigator or who knows the way...

My personal preference would probably be to be alone up front (if I had to drive). 

 

[lauraw4321]

I only have daughters, so I voted others. BUT, if this were me and my MIL and DH, MIL would probably want to drive (although she likes to less and less, so maybe DH would) and likely DH would sit up front with her because he has very long legs, but he would offer the front to me and we would go through a song and dance before settling on things. 

[teachermom2834]

I think it is just a generally accepted norm in our society (and of course people here will disagree and be exceptions) that the front seat in the car is a better seat than the back seat. It is just a general norm in the parts of the USA I have lived in that barring some extenuating circumstance the front seat is preferable and should be filled before back seats are filled. So if you are going somewhere in a group of friends or work colleagues or church folks or whatnot the front seat will be filled in before people fill the back seats. I think with ds and fiancé who are not young or compromised in any way we are aware of, this norm applies, so someone is sitting in the front passenger seat .(teens or very young adults who you just met could be an exception here but at 29 they are out of this range). So, someone is sitting in that seat. 
 

That’s where my opinion really ends. The rest could be worked out on the downlow (your ds and fiancé discuss prior to trip where she would prefer to sit and he jumps in) or OP can say to her ds “hey can you drive so I can nap in the back?”. So people can pre-work preferences to organically work out…LOL.  The only way I find odd is the two adults in the back and driver alone up front. I wouldn’t get bent out of shape about it if I was the driver but I would find it peculiar. I feel like adults filling in the front seat is enough of a norm that two adults in the back is really sending a message that no one really wants to sit up front with the driver or that they can’t be a few feet apart for an hour and a half. Either message is odd to me. 

And that is my totally inconsequential two cents! 

[Faith-manor]

I could be driving and both in the back. But hard and fast rule. No sucky face because I don't want to see that in the rearview mirror every time I track traffic behind me. 😜😁

[SHP]

2 hours ago, Amethyst said:

No fair. Dh os not coming on this trip! Lol

Ok. I rent a two seat sports car and drive solo and let DS and his fiancee drive my boring car

[Amethyst]

I find it so interesting that the poll is saying that most people would put the fiancee up front with me! Interesting! I was leaning towards putting son up front, but now I’m not sure. I’ll probably just play it my ear and let them sit wherever. 

[Jaybee]

I guess it just wouldn't be a big deal either way to me. I'd drive and they could sit where they want--they could work it out between them, and I wouldn't have a part in the decision. I wouldn't care, either, especially for 1.5 hrs.

[Arcadia]

6 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

. So if you are going somewhere in a group of friends or work colleagues or church folks or whatnot the front seat will be filled in before people fill the back seats.

If I was the only female in the car with my colleagues or friends, they would let me have the front passenger seat because ladies should not have to squeeze at the back with the guys.  
When it is all relatives, it is usually either the driver’s spouse or whoever has long legs get to sit in front. 

[Bambam]

I've driven my not-yet-adult dd + boyfriend (and friends) several places. Sometimes she sits in front with me, sometimes they both sit in back. I've also driven my adult dd + adult boyfriend places (but just in town, so less than 30 minutes to destination), and usually they both sit in back. 

Neither bothers me. I love driving, and they all know that. I'm not a super talky person, and they all know that. I love my car (Honda Accord Sport), but it is a little noisy, so harder to have a conversation with all occupants in the car. 

But I love driving, and when I'm driving, I don't mind talking, but I'm also completely fine not talking too.

But I will say I miss driving them around when both would sit in the back seat. For whatever reason, they felt more free to talk, and I'm pretty sure I overheard things that they thought I couldn't!  I miss hearing the chatter that did not require me to actively listen or participate. 

[AmandaVT]

I'll answer from a prone to motion sickness perspective. I would drive because I get car sick very easily, and driving helps prevent that. If either of them is also prone to carsickness, they may also want the front. Otherwise, Shotgun rules are in effect.