Kidney stones

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

DH has wound up in the ER twice in the last three weeks for seperate kidney stones.  He has never had any in the past and this last one wasn’t big enough to obstruct but is making him really sick. Urology is a six month away appointment unless he gets an obstruction.

Other than increasing hydration, any suggestions?  He is gluten sensitive and not always great about avoiding it(he goes in spurts; he’ll stop eating gluten then go back to it after a while because he gets tired of gluten free products, but then feels crappy so stops eating again) but no other medical issues. He was in the ER all last night and is still miserable and vomiting today after discharge. I’m working and he’s actually in the bunk room at work trying to sleep but I’m half tempted to toss him in my ambulance and return to the ER because he is constantly vomiting.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[cintinative]

So horrible! I am so sorry.  He must be in so much pain.  =(

Have they analyzed the stones to see what type they are? Sometimes by identifying that, they can make suggestions about what dietary changes might help.  My 15 year old had a kidney stone last year and they told him to go off carbonated drinks entirely. I don't think that is true for everyone because my husband has also had kidney stones and they didn't tell him to avoid carbonated drinks.  Anyway, all that to say, ymmv on which dietary changes might help.  For my son, they did a 48 hour urine collection that was sent off to a company to evaluate for causes for kidney stones. I found this:  https://kidneystones.uchicago.edu/24-hour-urine-collections-are-not-avoidable/#:~:text=The only way to find,are to form new stones.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

3 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So horrible! I am so sorry.  He must be in so much pain.  =(

Have they analyzed the stones to see what type they are? Sometimes by identifying that, they can make suggestions about what dietary changes might help.  My 15 year old had a kidney stone last year and they told him to go off carbonated drinks entirely. I don't think that is true for everyone because my husband has also had kidney stones and they didn't tell him to avoid carbonated drinks.  Anyway, all that to say, ymmv on which dietary changes might help.  For my son, they did a 48 hour urine collection that was sent off to a company to evaluate for causes for kidney stones. I found this:  https://kidneystones.uchicago.edu/24-hour-urine-collections-are-not-avoidable/#:~:text=The only way to find,are to form new stones.

Thank you for the link! This is only his second one ever, but they’ve both been within the last 3 weeks.  The first one was so small that it passed within a few minutes of him getting morphine and they didn’t collect it.

I am going to ask his primary about a urine collection.  If there’s some way to prevent this we need to find it.

[Starr]

Dh had a terrible bout, and they blasted one (I cant remember the medical term) and he hasn't had any trouble for years now. They did have him strain his urine for a time. If you keep takin him in to the ER for the vomiting maybe they will move up the urology appointment. I can't imagine how much pain he's going through.

[brehon]

No suggestions for the kidney stones. Ugh! Just horrid. 
 

Intractable vomiting — y’all carry droperidol? Works wonders for my patients when nothing else will. And has the added benefit of being a slight sedative at low doses. 

[Kassia]

I have no advice but just wanted to say I'm so sorry that he's suffering.  DH had his first (and only) last October and I never want to see him go through that again.  It's just awful.  I hope he gets relief very soon.  😞  

 

 

[KSera]

I’m sorry, that is so miserable! There are some foods that they say to avoid and others that are supposed to help. Hydrating really well is probably the main thing though. With most stones, they say to avoid foods high in oxalic acid—things like spinach, kale, black tea. When he does have those things, taking vitamin c with them can help bind the oxalates so they don’t form stones. There was also research in the past year that drinking coffee helps prevent repeat stone formation, so I’ve taken up the habit. 

[Spryte]

I’m so sorry.

Years ago, I was getting kidney stones every eight months, like clockwork. I’m allergic to most pain meds, so we learned to treat symptoms as best we could. Lots of fluids, non-carbonated. I had a couple meds to try that helped with relaxing the ureter, and that did seem helpful. It’s been almost 7 years now, so details are fuzzy on the med names, but I think most helpful was Flomax, which is normally Rx’d  to guys for prostate issues (we really tried everything!) — I’m obviously not a guy, so the use might have been an off label thing, but it helped.

Nausea meds. But also watch for signs of infection. Stone + infection = bad, and vomiting can be a sign.

My hospital no longer gives out strainers, but I found that the info we gained, back when they did, from catching a stone and sending it off to be analyzed was worth it. Plus, seeing that viciously sharp stone gives a visual for the pain!

For prevention, I rarely now drink bubbly water. Sadly. I’m a flat water only girl now. Never drank much soda, but I did love my bubbly!

We also moved, just before the last one, and I sometimes wonder if the change in water helped? That seems odd, but an ER doc had mentioned a high number of kidney stones in one area we lived, so maybe.

I hope it passes soon, and he gets some relief.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Spryte

[marbel]

I had a stone in 2013 that caused a blockage and infection, so I was in the hospital for a few days.  Since then I've had a yearly appointment with a kidney specialist and do a 24-hour urine test each time.  I've never had a stone since! But, still the yearly test because I guess if one is prone to stones they may come back. 

In my case, it seems to be too much calcium. But mostly I am told to drink a lot of water, like 4 liters a day. I was not told to avoid any particular foods. I was told not to take Vitamin D, and my levels had been at the lowest "normal" level. This is problematic for me as I have osteopenia and need Vit D. So I take some but not massive amounts.  At one time the doc said to add plain lemon juice to my water, and I do that sometimes because it tastes good, but I've read some things that indicate it doesn't help. 

All that to say... body chemistry is complicated and kidney stones are not simple either. 

The urine test is a pain but not invasive or difficult. Just peeing into a big jug all day and night long, then sending a small sample of that off to a lab. 

I hope he feels better soon and gets it figured out.

Edited September 18, 2022 by marbel

[Selkie]

Here's an article that tells what foods to avoid:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/5-steps-for-preventing-kidney-stones-201310046721

Limit animal protein: Eating too much animal protein, such as red meat, poultry, eggs, and seafood, boosts the level of uric acid and could lead to kidney stones. A high-protein diet also reduces levels of urinary citrate, the chemical in urine that helps prevent stones from forming. If you’re prone to stones, limit your daily meat intake to a quantity that is no bigger than a pack of playing cards. This is also a heart-healthy portion.

Avoid stone-forming foods: Beets, chocolate, spinach, rhubarb, tea, and most nuts are rich in oxalate, which can contribute to kidney stones. If you suffer from stones, your doctor may advise you to avoid these foods or to consume them in smaller amounts.

[sweet2ndchance]

Kidney stones are horrible. They are above natural childbirth on my list of most painful experiences. There is a med they can prescribe him that will increase his urination rate. I think it's called FlowMax? It won't stop new stones from forming but it will help pass the ones he has already. I would also ask for a urine filter so he can collect the stone(s). They can get a better idea of the cause if they can find out the composition of his stones.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 hour ago, brehon said:

No suggestions for the kidney stones. Ugh! Just horrid. 
 

Intractable vomiting — y’all carry droperidol? Works wonders for my patients when nothing else will. And has the added benefit of being a slight sedative at low doses. 

We don’t, we only have zofran. He got zofran, phenergan and then droperidol in the ER which finally worked. 
I offered to give him a liter of fluid and some zofran IVP and see how he does but if it’s obstructing I am really hesitant to pour fluids in. And since he now can’t urinate and has bilateral upper quadrant pain I’m kind of thinking that’s where it’s headed. 

they did prescribe flomax and gave him a strainer but so far he can’t keep meds down either.

I want to take him to the bigger hospital a half hour away that actually has urology but he’s a man and doesn’t listen. I even offered IV morphine for the trip down if he’d get on my stretcher. 🙄🙄

Edited September 18, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I want to take him to the bigger hospital a half hour away that actually has urology but he’s a man and doesn’t listen. I even offered IV morphine for the trip down if he’d get on my stretcher. 🙄🙄

No advice that hasn't been given. I am sorry he's so miserable. I think the bigger hospital sounds like a good idea! 

I agree that it's worse than childbirth. I used my fist for counterpressure when the pain kicked in, and I ended up with bruises all up and down my side. It's the pits.

3 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Thank you for the link! This is only his second one ever, but they’ve both been within the last 3 weeks.  The first one was so small that it passed within a few minutes of him getting morphine and they didn’t collect it.

I am going to ask his primary about a urine collection.  If there’s some way to prevent this we need to find it.

Is there a way to know if these are serial stones or pieces of a bigger one that broke up? I know they can also form at the same time but come out at different times. 

If he wasn't this nauseated the first time, I would be more concerned about infection. 

[Kareni]

How horrible for your husband, @Mrs Tiggywinkle. My husband has suffered from (I believe he called them) bladder stones in the recent past. In his case, more water and halving his daily intake of calcium magnesium tablets helped.

Regards,

Kareni

[MercyA]

I'm so sorry. I've had 25+ kidney stones over the years and just passed one that was 9 mm. 

I've had the fewest kidney stones when I've limited animal products and limited oxalate-containing food. The vast majority of stones are made of calcium oxalate and you can find lists of high- and low-oxalate foods online. 

Drinking lemon juice has been proven to reduce the number of stones. 

I had *no* stones when I was 95% vegan. 

To get the stones that are in there out: he should take Flomax, drink beer if appropriate for him (it dilates the urinary tract), and (when he is feeling better) jump on a trampoline or even just outside, coming down hard on the soles of his feet. My last stone did not budge until I remembered that jumping had helped in the past. There are medical articles on this; it's not just quackery. 🙂

I am so sorry he is feeling so unwell. I know it's terrible. 

[Arcadia]

On 9/18/2022 at 8:10 AM, Spryte said:

.

My hospital no longer gives out strainers, but I found that the info we gained, back when they did, from catching a stone and sending it off to be analyzed was worth it.

That was what they did for my brother’s wife. She had large stones in both kidneys and they analyze the stones to tell her what kind they are.  That helps with diet planning. Hers were likely urinary tract infection related and she takes cranberry juice to help with UTIs.

[bookbard]

My husband recently went to emergency for kidney stones. When they did the scan there (on the same day), they could see he had stuff all through his kidney and would need surgery. He could lose his kidney. (Of course, is that enough impetus to make the specialist appt? It has taken months for him to do anything!) Anyway, I don't think you can just wait for stones to pass - they won't, if they're embedded and they can cause serious damage, even sepsis.