Updates 2023 (job hunt etc)

[itsheresomewhere]

2 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I was just abbreviating because she knew what I was referencing — plantar fasciitis. In some people the issue is more in their heel. For me personally it’s mostly arch pain. The podiatrist said my foot flattens without the right support under it and stretches the fascia. He said (without an X-ray) I surely already have micro tears in my fascia. 

His opinion was that the OTC ones just flatten under the weight of a person because they are not as strong as the custom ones. 

I have to say my OTC ones were much better than the custom ones.  My DS and my mother have experienced the same.  We get ours custom fitted at a running store. The podiatrist said the same thing to me but theirs just hurt my feet.  

Edited June 3, 2023 by itsheresomewhere

[heartlikealion]

Just now, itsheresomewhere said:

I have to say my OTC ones were much better than the custom ones.  My DS and my mother have experienced the same.  We get ours customers fitted at a running store. The podiatrist said the same thing to me but theirs just hurt my feet.  

My running store just points to the insoles and say we would probably recommend green SuperFeet (they did a whole gait analysis for me once). I had the blue ones once and they did help a lot early on but I either needed to replace them or my issue is too severe. The last pair I bought were these special PowerSteps sold exclusively in dr offices and they offer more heel cushion but again, don’t support arch enough. I figure it can’t hurt to try orthotics. They will at least cater to my exact shape. OTC are a gamble, too. 

[Harriet Vane]

1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

My running store just points to the insoles and say we would probably recommend green SuperFeet (they did a whole gait analysis for me once). I had the blue ones once and they did help a lot early on but I either needed to replace them or my issue is too severe. The last pair I bought were these special PowerSteps sold exclusively in dr offices and they offer more heel cushion but again, don’t support arch enough. I figure it can’t hurt to try orthotics. They will at least cater to my exact shape. OTC are a gamble, too. 

There are stores that will custom mold while you wait. Ds benefited from this when he was running track. When he went to the store, he ran on their super-special treadmill and also had a gait analysis, after which they made the insoles. I wonder if there is a store in your area or near where your kids live that has a system like that? 

 

[heartlikealion]

11 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

There are stores that will custom mold while you wait. Ds benefited from this when he was running track. When he went to the store, he ran on their super-special treadmill and also had a gait analysis, after which they made the insoles. I wonder if there is a store in your area or near where your kids live that has a system like that? 

 

I don’t think any here do that. I’ve also searched this forum for input and soneone suggested an orthotist. 

We just have Fleet Feet. The podiatrist spoke negatively of using shoe stores for it. I don’t know how their methods vary. Maybe he was just saying they overcharge? 

The math doesn’t add up yet… they said they might be ~$500. If I owe 20% that would be $100… but I had to make a larger down payment so I’m hoping ins covers 80% (they said depends how it’s filed) and I’ll get some money back?? 

I spent $60 on my special PowerStep insoles and they no longer cut it. So $100 on custom? Seems worth it. If I go into a running store that makes them… I assume it’s all out of pocket. 

[catz]

We've had great luck with OTC inserts too.  Both my spouse and I use the superfeet, different versions for each of us.  We have a local store where you can make an appointment with a pedorthist who will fit you and make recommendations.  They refer a few to a podiatrist for a work up if nothing OTC fits the bill.

If you've tried OTC and they didn't work for you, I hope these do.  I just think a lot of podiatrists are anxious to sell expensive custom ones because it is to their financial advantage.   But certainly they are a better choice for some.  The right OTC shoes and inserts were life changing for me.

Edited June 3, 2023 by catz

[heartlikealion]

The PF has impacted my life a lot in the past 2 years but I used the SuperFeet when I was a cashier after a horrible flare up many years ago. I’ve purchased expensive running shoes in the past few years (Mizuno & Brooks) but they don’t really offer arch support. I replace with my own insoles. 

Currently my feet ache if I walk more than 45 min on the treadmill. It is messing up my exercise goals & job opportunities. 

[heartlikealion]

I’ve outlined some things about my PF journey on my YouTube. I’ll make a new video eventually after I try the custom ones. This video is a yr old. 

https://youtu.be/aF_hoK6MrNQ

 

[Harriet Vane]

I don't object in any way to custom orthotics, especially if they prove to be affordable for you. In mentioning the running store, I was just offering options. 🙂

I have PF as well. It will never be fully cured in me because my connective tissue is dysfunctional due to a chronic condition. There were many years that I successfully, happily used OTC WalkFit orthotics (the ones Carol mentioned mailing to you). With age, weight gain, and further health issues, what will work or not work for my feet has changed.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Just thought that I'd throw out a counterintuitive suggestion for PF.  I have found my only real relief to be from minimalist shoes.  I recommend Xeros shoes.  (I have only tried their Women's prios, so have no other recommendations for kinds of shoes.)  Their website has a video explaining the science etc. behind going the opposite direction from orthotics.  (BTW - I had custom made orthotics, Superfeet, etc. and Xeros has helped me in a way that those did not.)  But. . . as with anything to do with bodies, YMMV. 

[heartlikealion]

15 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Just thought that I'd throw out a counterintuitive suggestion for PF.  I have found my only real relief to be from minimalist shoes.  I recommend Xeros shoes.  (I have only tried their Women's prios, so have no other recommendations for kinds of shoes.)  Their website has a video explaining the science etc. behind going the opposite direction from orthotics.  (BTW - I had custom made orthotics, Superfeet, etc. and Xeros has helped me in a way that those did not.)  But. . . as with anything to do with bodies, YMMV. 

I have read about this but cannot fathom trying it because I’m in pain without shoes on in my home. Does it feel like you’re just wearing a sock or what? 

[prairiewindmomma]

McKeon and other podiatrists argue that for some, plantar fasciitis comes from fundamental weakness in the fascia, and that strengthening the fascia resolves the PF.

For other people, like Harriet above, and me, PF comes from either connective tissue issues or problems in the foot bones (the fascia connect the calcaneus to the MT) that cause inherent inflammation. For us, orthotics stablize the foot structure so that the fascia can work more properly. I do other exercises to keep my muscles in good shape.

Have you been given a list of basic exercises that everyone with PF should do? Calf raises? Roller stretches, etc.? Those help regardless of whichever category you fall into.

[heartlikealion]

5 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

McKeon and other podiatrists argue that for some, plantar fasciitis comes from fundamental weakness in the fascia, and that strengthening the fascia resolves the PF.

For other people, like Harriet above, and me, PF comes from either connective tissue issues or problems in the foot bones (the fascia connect the calcaneus to the MT) that cause inherent inflammation. For us, orthotics stablize the foot structure so that the fascia can work more properly. I do other exercises to keep my muscles in good shape.

Have you been given a list of basic exercises that everyone with PF should do? Calf raises? Roller stretches, etc.? Those help regardless of whichever category you fall into.

Yes. I went to several weeks of physical therapy for the issue but the exercises seem like they are pointless sometimes and helpful others. That’s probably why I’ve been so inconsistent. The calf stretching I do on a slant board — I feel an immediate difference but then the next day it’s like I had never done it. The root issue isn’t really resolved. Like cutting long grass then it is back. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

27 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I have read about this but cannot fathom trying it because I’m in pain without shoes on in my home. Does it feel like you’re just wearing a sock or what? 

It feels like you're wearing very thin shoes.  I can feel rocks and stones under my feet  In my case, it has helped my balance immensely.  It took me about a month for my feet to adjust to them.  But as Prairie pointed out, there are different reasons for having PF and I don't know if my reason is the same as yours. 

[heartlikealion]

I don’t know if all people that get PF flare ups have a short, tight fascia. They had me flex my foot at physical therapy and pointed out that it looks like a taut guitar string. 

I’m on my second podiatrist & wanted to get the orthotics while I still have this insurance plan. After I move, I might lose it (if I get a different FT job with less coverage). 

[prairiewindmomma]

Right. Some people need to do the exercises daily, forever. You don’t do sit-ups for five weeks and think you are going to maintain a lifelong six pack. If you have fundamental structural issues in your foot, the exercises help you maintain and not lose ground. 
 

If you feel a good calf release, odds are you have tight calves, weak hamstrings, and some other lower back pain or sciatica from time to time. It also puts more stress on your knees. Your body functions as a whole. Problems in one area cascade to another. Keeping your calves loose isn’t a one and done. It’s a daily thing.

My PF flares and subsides….but with orthotics and a lot of daily work I am way more functional. Standing for hours on end will never be a great idea for me because it is repetitive stress on a structurally weak area, but I can walk and hike longer distances. I hiked 7 miles a couple of weeks ago on a steep grade. Throughout the day I had to stop and stretch when I felt things begin to flare. But I did it.

I think you can probably hit more functionality, but it is going to take some consistency in addressing it.

 

[heartlikealion]

3 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Right. Some people need to do the exercises daily, forever. You don’t do sit-ups for five weeks and think you are going to maintain a lifelong six pack. If you have fundamental structural issues in your foot, the exercises help you maintain and not lose ground. 
 

If you feel a good calf release, odds are you have tight calves, weak hamstrings, and some other lower back pain or sciatica from time to time. It also puts more stress on your knees. Your body functions as a whole. Problems in one area cascade to another. Keeping your calves loose isn’t a one and done. It’s a daily thing.

My PF flares and subsides….but with orthotics and a lot of daily work I am way more functional. Standing for hours on end will never be a great idea for me because it is repetitive stress on a structurally weak area, but I can walk and hike longer distances. I hiked 7 miles a couple of weeks ago on a steep grade. Throughout the day I had to stop and stretch when I felt things begin to flare. But I did it.

I think you can probably hit more functionality, but it is going to take some consistency in addressing it.

 

Well I got very discouraged because for a brief period I was doing them daily and didn’t seem to notice if it actually helped. I know I’m probably not making sense. I know I do need to at the very least stretch the calves. I own several devices and night splints but don’t use all the devices frequently like I need to. My worst flare up was when I was overweight and working nights at Dollar General. They wouldn’t let me sit and I was on concrete floors for hours. I quit. 

[Carol in Cal.]

13 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I tried to send you a DM but it wouldn’t let me. My guess is your inbox is full? 

Drat.  

Well, what size are your feet?  I had not recalled that the insoles were size dependent.  

Also, I have a big old thread about PF in the old General board, and it’s got all the things crowdsourced in it—it is really fantastic how many great ideas people have.

I am cured of it now, but it was a years long journey.

Re Xero shoes—after I got to the point where I could walk barefoot again, I got some Xero sandals, and I absolutely hate them.  The toe loop holding my big toes down is so artificial to me and unbearable.  I am so much more comfortable barefoot!  YMMV but although allowing your foot to spread out naturally has been key to my staying pain free, Xeros are not helpful.  I wear Altra trail runners most of the time now, and my toes can spread out like they are supposed to, plus I have a model (Superior 4) with fairly thin soles so I feel the ground.  I can take their rock plates out and feel the ground even more.  For me those are so much better than Xeros.  I had no idea how cramped my toes were even in rounded toe shoes until I got Altras.  My feet are actually growing in length and width, and I feel like they are sort of unfurling.  For dress I wear Earthies or I do have one pair of Naot short boots that have plenty of forefoot room.

However, I could not have comfortably worn those dress shoes with PF I don’t think.  With that I needed Dansko sandals, Abeo dress sandals or short pumps, or Bjorn or Sofft heels (which were not great for my back but did stretch my feet out over arch supports) when it was very bad.  Then lower Bjorn or Sofft, or FitFlops, when it started to get better.  

[maize]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Drat.  

Well, what size are your feet?  I had not recalled that the insoles were size dependent.  

Also, I have a big old thread about PF in the old General board, and it’s got all the things crowdsourced in it—it is really fantastic how many great ideas people have.

I am cured of it now, but it was a years long journey.

Re Xero shoes—after I got to the point where I could walk barefoot again, I got some Xero sandals, and I absolutely hate them.  The toe loop holding my big toes down is so artificial to me and unbearable.  I am so much more comfortable barefoot!  YMMV but although allowing your foot to spread out naturally has been key to my staying pain free, Xeros are not helpful.  I wear Altra trail runners most of the time now, and my toes can spread out like they are supposed to, plus I have a model (Superior 4) with fairly thin soles so I feel the ground.  I can take their rock plates out and feel the ground even more.  For me those are so much better than Xeros.  I had no idea how cramped my toes were even in rounded toe shoes until I got Altras.  My feet are actually growing in length and width, and I feel like they are sort of unfurling.  For dress I wear Earthies or I do have one pair of Naot short boots that have plenty of forefoot room.

However, I could not have comfortably worn those dress shoes with PF I don’t think.  With that I needed Dansko sandals, Abeo dress sandals or short pumps, or Bjorn or Sofft heels (which were not great for my back but did stretch my feet out over arch supports) when it was very bad.  Then lower Bjorn or Sofft, or FitFlops, when it started to get better.  

The xero sandals I wear don't have a toe loop https://xeroshoes.com/shop/genesis/genesis-men/?attribute_pa_color=moonlit-blue&attribute_pa_mens-size=10&utm_source=google&utm_medium=pmax&utm_campaign=Pmax-Sandals-CS-Optimizing-for-acquiring-new-customers-US-CM&utm_term=__m&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwyeujBhA5EiwA5WD7_WlwWevVDwnBd2YzC-Qd9326AdgWRG1sSb9az8sx-PKcDiAsKG2qiRoC5eUQAvD_BwE

Edited June 3, 2023 by maize

[heartlikealion]

@Carol in Cal. I wear a size 9. 

I will look up some of those items. 

I know going without indoor shoes (I had worn to the YMCA pool since they are sandals and just left in the car a bit) and lapsing on my stretching was bad. I’m back to wearing them inside. I gained some weight recently which doesn’t help so I’m trying to get back on track there. I biked & went on short walk today. But biking is easier on my body (and swimming). I stood on the slant board today which I know helps. Other stretches that help involve a device I own and propping my leg up in a doorway. 

I think today I’ll make a check list to get myself on routine. Part of that is tracking my water intake again (which I’m doing today… I left my largest thermos at the office by mistake and it was there for days). 

[Jean in Newcastle]

55 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Drat.  

Well, what size are your feet?  I had not recalled that the insoles were size dependent.  

Also, I have a big old thread about PF in the old General board, and it’s got all the things crowdsourced in it—it is really fantastic how many great ideas people have.

I am cured of it now, but it was a years long journey.

Re Xero shoes—after I got to the point where I could walk barefoot again, I got some Xero sandals, and I absolutely hate them.  The toe loop holding my big toes down is so artificial to me and unbearable.  I am so much more comfortable barefoot!  YMMV but although allowing your foot to spread out naturally has been key to my staying pain free, Xeros are not helpful.  I wear Altra trail runners most of the time now, and my toes can spread out like they are supposed to, plus I have a model (Superior 4) with fairly thin soles so I feel the ground.  I can take their rock plates out and feel the ground even more.  For me those are so much better than Xeros.  I had no idea how cramped my toes were even in rounded toe shoes until I got Altras.  My feet are actually growing in length and width, and I feel like they are sort of unfurling.  For dress I wear Earthies or I do have one pair of Naot short boots that have plenty of forefoot room.

However, I could not have comfortably worn those dress shoes with PF I don’t think.  With that I needed Dansko sandals, Abeo dress sandals or short pumps, or Bjorn or Sofft heels (which were not great for my back but did stretch my feet out over arch supports) when it was very bad.  Then lower Bjorn or Sofft, or FitFlops, when it started to get better.  

I specifically recommended their trail runners. They are not sandals. I don’t work for xeros and don’t care if any one else buys any but please don’t misrepresent what I said. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Jean in Newcastle

[Carol in Cal.]

6 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I specifically recommended their trail runners. They are not sandals. I don’t work for xeros and don’t care if any one else buys any but please don’t misrepresent what I said. 

I didn’t misrepresent what you said at all.  I merely described my own experience in enough detail for clarity.

[Jean in Newcastle]

9 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I didn’t misrepresent what you said at all.  I merely described my own experience in enough detail for clarity.

About a difference product. 

[maize]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

About a difference product. 

Carol's comment didn't read to me as a response to yours. She was just sharing her own experience. As I shared mine with yet another Xero product.

[Carol in Cal.]

16 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

About a difference product. 

You accused me of something I did not do, and you owe me an apology, frankly. And now you are doubling down.  That’s just not right.

[Jean in Newcastle]

5 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

You accused me of something I did not do, and you owe me an apology, frankly. And now you are doubling down.  That’s just not right.

Ok. I apologize. 

[heartlikealion]

I really didn’t know how to read the comments regarding shoe brands/experiences. I can see how you both interpreted it. 

My final takeaway is Xero shoes come in different types so if you consider them probably avoid loops and look at a model called trail runners (I don’t think the word sandal nor trail runner was initially used which is probably part of the confusion here).

[Jean in Newcastle]

19 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I really didn’t know how to read the comments regarding shoe brands/experiences. I can see how you both interpreted it. 

My final takeaway is Xero shoes come in different types so if you consider them probably avoid loops and look at a model called trail runners (I don’t think the word sandal nor trail runner was initially used which is probably part of the confusion here).

I used the more specific “model “ called Prio but if you went to their site you would see that they are trail runners. I use them for hiking. (Again- they might not be right for you. Just what I have benefited from .). They do have sturdier hiking boots too but I need the feedback on the soles of my feet. 

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes. I went to several weeks of physical therapy for the issue but the exercises seem like they are pointless sometimes and helpful others. That’s probably why I’ve been so inconsistent. The calf stretching I do on a slant board — I feel an immediate difference but then the next day it’s like I had never done it. The root issue isn’t really resolved. Like cutting long grass then it is back. 

Do you wear a brace at night? Because what can happen is you stretch out, but then overnight your toes end up pointed, and the fascia starts to heal all those tears...but with your foot contracted. Then you wake up, and when you stretch your foot again by walking it retears all the healing it did overnight. The brace keeps your foot in the right position so it heals with the fascia elongated, instead of contracted. Annoying, but they DO work. 

[heartlikealion]

9 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Do you wear a brace at night? Because what can happen is you stretch out, but then overnight your toes end up pointed, and the fascia starts to heal all those tears...but with your foot contracted. Then you wake up, and when you stretch your foot again by walking it retears all the healing it did overnight. The brace keeps your foot in the right position so it heals with the fascia elongated, instead of contracted. Annoying, but they DO work. 

I’ve been wearing them almost every night for over 2 years… the Velcro sucks and they come loose. They are the worst engineered design ever. 
I discuss then around 2:45

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by heartlikealion

[ktgrok]

18 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I’ve been wearing them almost every night for over 2 years… the Velcro sucks and they come loose. They are the worst engineered design ever. 
I discuss then around 2:45

 

The first kind I tried were useless. They were sort of similar to that. This is the one that actually worked. https://amzn.to/3IWx4Fz

[heartlikealion]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

The first kind I tried were useless. They were sort of similar to that. This is the one that actually worked. https://amzn.to/3IWx4Fz

Oh! Someone once mentioned that style to me and I forgot all about them. I think that would stay put better. I wake up with them coming loose or completely unvelcroed sometimes but I do think it’s better than not wearing them. I’ll add those to my cart. Thanks!!  

[Carol in Cal.]

I tried a night brace but I couldn’t seem to fall asleep with it on.  But, every single time I got up I would stretch my feet back first, whether I was sitting down or lying down, even if I had just sat down, and that was helpful.  

I am a size 9 now, but when I got the walk fits I was a 7 1/2 - 8.  That might not be the right size for you but if you want to try them you can have them.  We will figure out a way to contact each other.  LMK.

[heartlikealion]

1 minute ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I tried a night brace but I couldn’t seem to fall asleep with it on.  But, every single time I got up I would stretch my feet back first, whether I was sitting down or lying down, even if I had just sat down, and that was helpful.  

I am a size 9 now, but when I got the walk fits I was a 7 1/2 - 8.  That might not be the right size for you but if you want to try them you can have them.  We will figure out a way to contact each other.  LMK.

I think they will be too small but I appreciate it! I will see what happens with the ones I ordered and keep the walk fits in mind as something else to buy if I need something. 

[Irish]

I haven't read all of the responses, but I've experienced relief for plantar fasciitis after getting steroid injections in my feet. 

[heartlikealion]

1 hour ago, Irish said:

I haven't read all of the responses, but I've experienced relief for plantar fasciitis after getting steroid injections in my feet. 

The first podiatrist tried that and it was awful. It gave no relief and was one of the most painful things I’ve ever experienced. The second podiatrist said if he does them he makes a cocktail so it’s not just straight steroid and it shouldn’t be unpleasant like that. 

[Clemsondana]

My mom and I both had it and found that what helped was very individualized, likely due to the specific shapes of people's feet.  For her, she wore one brand of tennis shoes almost continuously for over a year.  At one point she slept in them because it kept her feet from pointing at night.  I wore birkenstocks every day, all day.  When I got it a second time I wore oofos in the house and birks out of the house.  Once the pain eased off, after months, we were able to add other styles of shoes occasionally.  We would occasionally find other shoes that worked - usally vionic or clarks. If it makes you feel more optimistic, it's been at least 5 years since either of us has had any problem, and I'm back to wearing my flip flops and being barefoot all summer.  

The biggest help was staying off our feet when possible and stretching multiple times each day.

[heartlikealion]

In the past 48 hours I’ve done 2 preliminary interviews. One was on a site where you record your answers (casino job). Another was a group zoom call which I walked into late (zoom insisted on an update and I had issues). Somehow I got called back for a round 2 even though no one asked me any questions in the group zoom. They said they base it on notes from the initial phone call, too. 

Normally you’d go in person, but they offered me zoom today given my circumstances. Which is a huge relief. But I did offer to work with them on date to arrive in person. It’s in Alabama. But like 45 min from the kids so not too far. 

Yesterday this landlord reached out that he’s now got a unit available but I couldn’t do anything about it. I think I’d need to take out a loan to cover all the upfront costs (Dad can’t help, just bought new a/c unit) and it’s not near the AL job so I just need to see where this goes. If I got the casino job it would make sense, though. 

[heartlikealion]

Well that was a letdown. They start telling you more about the company and the job and it sounds awful lol. And they wanted me to work Mon-Saturday every week. I said that won't work for me because of my kids (who wants to work six days a week?). 

I want a short commute to wherever I work so I guess I'll have to wait and see... the casino job would be a 20 min commute from that townhouse. That's OK but not ideal to me. I would need to come up with $1830 to move in (first month's rent, deposit, pet fee, application fee). 

[heartlikealion]

I followed up with the casino and they said I should get an update by end of this week (ie like if I’ll get a second interview). 

Xh is being vague about what’s holding up ds from getting a learning permit. Ds thinks dad doesn’t want him to get it this summer. Someone suggested to me that dad is trying to delay affecting his auto insurance. 

My hands are tied, but I sent ds a link to the study guide. I’ll try to get him a hard copy later. Ds doesn’t seem too upset but I think this summer would be a great time to practice. I got limited practice in my Driver’s Ed class at school. And I have access to roads that aren’t used much. I know parking lots are always an option, too. 

[vonfirmath]

Is your son ready to get his permit? A lot of kids around here do not rush out and get it as soon as they turn 15. Our family has deliberately decided to delay our son (who turns 16 this summer) because he is not ready for the responsibility.

 

[Scarlett]

In our state ins rates aren’t affected by permits. 

[heartlikealion]

3 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

Is your son ready to get his permit? A lot of kids around here do not rush out and get it as soon as they turn 15. Our family has deliberately decided to delay our son (who turns 16 this summer) because he is not ready for the responsibility.

 

Well I don’t know exactly how to answer that. He’s never been behind the wheel. I saw it as a way for him to get extra practice. He doesn’t have to get the license earlier just because he gets the permit at 15? 

I delayed mine til I was a senior in high school. But not sure that did me any favors. It’s a toss up. 

[heartlikealion]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

In our state ins rates aren’t affected by permits. 

I think the implication was that earlier permit = earlier license — then auto rates go up. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

I think the implication was that earlier permit = earlier license — then auto rates go up. 

Well sure but he can hang on  to permit only for a couple of years. 

[vonfirmath]

1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

Well I don’t know exactly how to answer that. He’s never been behind the wheel. I saw it as a way for him to get extra practice. He doesn’t have to get the license earlier just because he gets the permit at 15? 

I delayed mine til I was a senior in high school. But not sure that did me any favors. It’s a toss up. 

The learner's permit is only valid for 2 years. I can see not wanting to get a learner's permit until you are ready for the kid to actually learn to drive

[cjzimmer1]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well sure but he can hang on  to permit only for a couple of years. 

 

2 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

The learner's permit is only valid for 2 years. I can see not wanting to get a learner's permit until you are ready for the kid to actually learn to drive

You can renew learner permits.  One of mine wanted to learn to drive and we got his learner's permit.  Once behind the wheel, we realized he was far too anxious to be driving.  So we did little bits for a long time and just renewed the permit when it expired.  He eventually got there.  

[heartlikealion]

Just now, vonfirmath said:

The learner's permit is only valid for 2 years. I can see not wanting to get a learner's permit until you are ready for the kid to actually learn to drive

I can’t see him making him wait 2 years. Especially in a state where public transportation is very limited and ds keeps yearning to get a job. He’s volunteering in dad’s library over the summer but I know he wants a paid job sooner than later. I suggested a bike but he’s always shunned riding a bike and didn’t want me to buy one when I inquired a couple Christmases ago. 

He brought up driving age a couple times before/after his 15th birthday which is why I was hoping I could do some driving with him this summer to ease into it. I just want him to have plenty of practice. 

[heartlikealion]

If he’s not ready, we can stop. But if he needs extra practice and we wait, it might feel rushed at age 16 when there’s all this pressure to have your DL. In our area, anyway. 

[bolt.]

I think there might not be much value in spending the energy to contemplate this decision and its timing. It's the very definition of an unimportant decision that's out of your hands anyways.

I think a stronger role would be to use it as an opportunity to communicate that one of the ways you 'believe in him' and 'have his back' is that you believe he is the best decision maker to be making this call, and you have no advice other than for him to listen to himself and make the call he feels is right.

If *he* feels pressure to have the license at 16, *he* feels it. If *he* feels like responding to his dad's possible desire to delay, then *he* feels that. There are all kinds of things he can feel while making this decision -- which is what makes it an interesting and grown-up decision for *him* to be making.

[KungFuPanda]

This could be a good project for you and your son to do together, BUT if you're going to embark on this you need to first be financially stable enough that if he wrecks your car in the process you can manage the fallout without being homeless or jobless.  If you or your ex can't afford that gamble right now it's probably wise to put a pin in it until you can.