Lawyers, landlords, & anyone with shared driveway experience, or even just sympathy, lol

[katilac]

My parents live in a very old house next to another very old house, and there is a shared driveway. They have been there over 25 years, and the shared driveway probably goes back 60 years. The shared driveway leads to a garage that is one building, but split down the middle with a wall. Not a modern garage, just something someone DIY'd out of wood at some point. 

Their half of the garage is full of typical hoarder's trash, and they have two cars, so they have a parking problem. Each house has a parking strip in the front, owned by the city. My parents do not want them parking a car on their strip all evening and all night, both bc it will ruin the grass and bc they will never have space for cmpany to park (and it is not allowed by civil code). There is parking available right across the street in front of an empty lot, they do not want to use it. In retaliation, they have started blocking the driveway every. single. day, and saying my parents can walk over and knock every time they want to leave. 

There is no written agreement to be found, which apparently makes this a civil dispute. My question is, what does that mean? Does it mean going to court and getting a written agreement in place? Would it be in front of a full-on judge or possibly a  justice of the peace? We would happily make a written agreement with the current landlord without any of this, but past interactions make us think we need a backup plan. His immediate reaction to me very politely asking him to talk to his tenants, bc this isn't workable, was to threaten to build a fence down the middle of the driveway so no one could use it (the property line is literally right down the middle of the driveway). He did calm down and say he would talk to them, but they definitely have not stopped. 

Are my parents going to have to pay a thousand dollars or something crazy to have them not block the shared driveway? Is it even something that can be forced, so to speak? It doesn't seem plausible that routinely blocking a shared driveway is acceptable, but I know the law can be crazy. 

My parents are 85 years old. That's probably not pertinent, but I just thought I'd share how trashy these tenants are for fighting with an elderly couple who have never had trouble with neighbors their entire lives. When the long-time neighbor died and they moved in, my parents welcomed them, made special Halloween treat bags for their kids because it's not a street you can trick-or-treat on, they've been nothing but nice. Yes, I'm a little upset about this!

Actually, I truly am concerned about them walking back and forth over uneven ground and up and down an extra set of stoop steps every time they leave the house. If the landlord refuses to make an agreement, would that increase his liability at all? 

[footballmom]

First, huge sympathy.  This sounds very stressful for your parents and you.  Just to make sure I’m understanding, your parents’ car is blocked in by another tenant? Does the tenant not have their own parking space on “their” side of the garage? Have your parents asked the tenants directly not to block in their car? 
 

If the tenants are constantly blocking your parents’ car in and they have to walk over uneven surfaces making it all fall risk, and they have asked the tenants not to block them in, I would deal directly with the landlord on their behalf.  I would do some research on codes and be very firm this is creating a safely risk for your parents.  How far away from your parents do you live?  

Edited April 15, 2022 by footballmom

[Katy]

I would talk to an attorney first because what can be done is so local advice on a message board is probably useless.  It woukd likely be a free phone consultation and less than $200 for a cease and desist letter. You may also find the letter could serve as notice that the vehicles will be towed every time your parents side of the driveway is blocked and this is their final notice. Make sure the landlord knows too. 

[katilac]

16 minutes ago, footballmom said:

First, huge sympathy.  This sounds very stressful for your parents and you.  Just to make sure I’m understanding, your parents’ car is blocked in by another tenant? Does the tenant not have their own parking space on “their” side of the garage? Have your parents asked the tenants directly not to block in their car? 
 

If the tenants are constantly blocking your parents’ car in and they have to walk over uneven surfaces making it all fall risk, and they have asked the tenants not to block them in, I would deal directly with the landlord on their behalf.  I would do some research on codes and be very firm this is creating a safely risk for your parents.  How far away from your parents do you live?  

My parents aren't tenants, if that makes any difference, they own their house. 

Yes, the tenants have what should be their own parking space on their side of the garage, but they have filled it with junk. If they would use their garage parking space and the parking strip in front of their house, they would be perfectly fine (you can park on the strip in front of your own house all  night, but not anybody's else's house). And there is more parking across the street, which they just don't want to use! 

They have been asked not to block the driveway, and I have spoken to the landlord directly as well. We're trying to make a plan before calling the landlord again (plus Easter weekend). 

We can find nothing in the codes about shared driveways! We found the information on the parking strips, that they aren't allowed to park in front of my parents' house. 

I live within 15 minutes, and my sister is even closer. We have asked our parents to not talk to the tenants at all while we get this sorted. 

14 minutes ago, Katy said:

I would talk to an attorney first because what can be done is so local advice on a message board is probably useless.  It woukd likely be a free phone consultation and less than $200 for a cease and desist letter. You may also find the letter could serve as notice that the vehicles will be towed every time your parents side of the driveway is blocked and this is their final notice. Make sure the landlord knows too. 

There aren't any 'sides' to the driveway; it is a very old, narrow driveway that only allows for one car at a time. You drive up and either go a bit to the right or left to enter your side of the garage. 

We are trying to gather as much information as possible before speaking to an attorney, and also trying to nail down if there is anyone else we should speak to first. We are very much trying not to escalate; if we can get clarification through a city official first, we would pass that on to the landlord before sending a letter from an attorney. Because we are reasonable, civilized people (she says between gritted teeth). 

[Katy]

The neighbors aren’t reasonable civilized people or they wouldn’t act this way. And the neighbors wouldn’t know if you talked to an attorney to find out options. They’ll only know if you hire an attorney to write a letter. 

[Resilient]

Calling a lawyer for $250 was the only way we were able to deal with mean tenants. we 
 

If they were decent people you wouldn’t need a lawyer.  And from where I sit, the tenants have escalated this already. 

I’m sorry for your parents having to deal with this.  They don’t deserve this .

In our case we explained the problem to the lawyer,  the lawyer wrote a letter to the mean tenants and (in this case) copied the sheriff who would have grounds to act to evict and arrest.  Turns out there’s laws against threatening people.  All told it was a hour of billable time.  
 

 

 

[happi duck]

The neighbors seem mean which would make me not want to deal with them.

Your parents don't use their strip? Can they let them use it and have their own guests park in the driveway and/or across the street?  (If they did this I'd write it up as a month to month thing that can be revoked and won't pertain to the next tenants.)

[katilac]

41 minutes ago, happi duck said:

The neighbors seem mean which would make me not want to deal with them.

Your parents don't use their strip? Can they let them use it and have their own guests park in the driveway and/or across the street?  (If they did this I'd write it up as a month to month thing that can be revoked and won't pertain to the next tenants.)

They do use it, and guests use it, but they don't park on it all the time. Where we are, if you're parking on that grassy strip all evening and night, on a daily basis, it's going to wind up a muddy mess with ruts and dead grass. My parents have lived there long term, they own their house, so they don't really want it looking like crap, y'know? It's bad enough the neighbor's house looks like crap. White stucco that hasn't been powerwashed since the previous owner died - and that poor man is probably turning over in his grave, he kept his house so neat and clean. 

[BusyMom5]

If they have cell phones, have them start documentation of how often its happening.   When you go to the lawyer,  or landlord, have pictures and for the lawyer a video of the layout.  

The renters are jerks, and I would be furious!  

[happi duck]

@katilacgot it!  I was picturing it completely wrong.

Mean people suck!

[gardenmom5]

Are there any "people helper" news programs associated with your area?  they love these types of stories - and that your parents are elderly and being treated this way by their new neighbors could make it very interesting to them.

I would set up some security cameras at your parents in case the jerky tenants step up their pettiness.

[footballmom]

I am curious where the property line sits relative to the division between the two houses and this driveway.  It would seem to me that if your parents side of the driveway is on their property, then the tenants would be trespassing by parking behind them on your parents property.  I agree talking to an attorney and having to pay an hour or two of billable time would be money well spent. These tenants sound like awful humans. 

[TravelingChris]

The house we rented in DC suburbs had one narrow driveway that expanded greatly by the end.  We shared that driveway w a neighbor.  and we were the renters.  It worked very well but none of us were nasty mean people.

I agree w getting a local lawyer involved for a few hours.

[Lucy the Valiant]

In my area, a shared driveway is (legally, the actual land) owned by one house, but has an "easement" (legal language) attached to the deeds of both houses. This was a common set up before the town passed an ordinance requiring a certain amount of road footage for new lots. In a similar situation to your parents', the police would be called here  and they would ticket the easement-breaker's vehicle. 

[mommyoffive]

I am so sorry this is happening to your parents.  It has to be causing them so stressful.  I am read your replies and finally got what this looks like.  I agree get an attorney.   Blocking a shared one car driveway seems like it couldn't be legal to do all the time.  

[katilac]

2 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

If they have cell phones, have them start documentation of how often its happening.   When you go to the lawyer,  or landlord, have pictures and for the lawyer a video of the layout.  

The renters are jerks, and I would be furious!  

They do have cell phones! A video is a great idea, thank you. 

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

Are there any "people helper" news programs associated with your area?  they love these types of stories - and that your parents are elderly and being treated this way by their new neighbors could make it very interesting to them.

I would set up some security cameras at your parents in case the jerky tenants step up their pettiness.

I know the kind fo news program you're talking about, I'll have to check. 

We think we need to up their internet for the cameras to work, but we're going to put some we already have up (even if they don't work) as a potential deterrent until we get the complete setup. And even bad footage is better than no footage,particularly if it shows them leaving their house.

1 hour ago, footballmom said:

I am curious where the property line sits relative to the division between the two houses and this driveway.  It would seem to me that if your parents side of the driveway is on their property, then the tenants would be trespassing by parking behind them on your parents property.  I agree talking to an attorney and having to pay an hour or two of billable time would be money well spent. These tenants sound like awful humans. 

The property line is literally the middle of the driveway, which I'm sure is something that wouldn't happen these days.  I hadn't thought of it in terms of them trespassing on my parent's property, but that's exactly what's happening when they park instead of just driving through. The driveway is definitely not wide enough for them to park only on their side. 

I don't mind paying the lawyer myself, if a couple of billable hours will resolve this. They are definitely awful humans, and I think the landlord is a stupid human for not wanting to resolve it amicably. They've had trouble with their other next door neighbors as well, which tells you something. 

19 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

In my area, a shared driveway is (legally, the actual land) owned by one house, but has an "easement" (legal language) attached to the deeds of both houses. This was a common set up before the town passed an ordinance requiring a certain amount of road footage for new lots. In a similar situation to your parents', the police would be called here  and they would ticket the easement-breaker's vehicle. 

From what I'm hearing and reading, there is something like an "assumed easement" because the driveway has been shared for so long, I really wish it were codified, but apparently it's more like, yes, there's an easement of some type in place, but it has to be formally settled on a case-by-case basis when one party is not being reasonable. 

[Melissa in Australia]

sounds awful

 hugs

[Beth S]

We inadvertently share a driveway when our summer cabin neighbors paved their driveway, which ran halfway on our property.
We now have a legal document that describes the easement.

I do think you need to get an attorney involved, as it's a very straightforward issue.

This would likely become a further issue when your folks end up selling their property.

I'm just sorry it's so messy with both the landlord and the tenants.

 

[Drama Llama]

We have a shared driveway, but we like our neighbor.  In our case no one parks on it, it's too steep.  We park on the street.

Now you are making me nervous in case my neighbor moves.  Sorry, I have no advice.

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Beth S said:

We inadvertently share a driveway when our summer cabin neighbors paved their driveway, which ran halfway on our property.
We now have a legal document that describes the easement.

Yes, that's what I want in the end, a legal document that describes it and says what is and isn't allowed. So it's something you personally have a copy of, not a filed government document, correct?  

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

We have a shared driveway, but we like our neighbor.  In our case no one parks on it, it's too steep.  We park on the street.

Now you are making me nervous in case my neighbor moves.  Sorry, I have no advice.

Going through the misery, I would get it in writing now, while you have a likeable, reasonable neighbor. If you present it in terms of future protection against crazy neighbors, they might be willing to go in half with you. I sure wish we had thought of it!

[Beth S]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Yes, that's what I want in the end, a legal document that describes it and says what is and isn't allowed. So it's something you personally have a copy of, not a filed government document, correct? 

Yes, I have the legal document here with me.  I googled, and apparently any Deed of Easement will be filed at the County Clerks Office. 

[TarynB]

Part of our driveway runs across our neighbor's property (mountain property, driveways are not always easy to install). There's an official legal easement on file with the county that lays out who has what rights in regards to usage, maintenance, repairs, etc. In my experience, you'll probably need to have a boundary survey done, at least on that side of the property, probably not the entire lot, and then get an attorney to write an official document stating who has rights to what (an easement), and then it gets filed with the local jurisdiction. It takes a bit of time but is actually pretty straightforward. In my area this would all probably cost about $1K nowadays.

I think getting in touch ASAP with an attorney who deals with real estate is your best bet.

ETA - And I agree this needs to be taken care of and documented through legal channels, because it very likely will cause issues whenever you/your parents try to sell their property, if not resolved now. We absolutely love our place, but we would have not hesitated to walk away from the purchase if there was not already a legally filed driveway easement.

Edited April 16, 2022 by TarynB

[TravelingChris]

With regards to the rental house we lived in, I bet there was a legal agreement on file.  We didn't have any need to look it up.  However, the owners of the house we rented were selling it after we left and the owners of the other house were divorcing so maybe selling too.  The only reason I bet there was already sn agreement was because all of the owners were highly educated so the kind of people who like to cover contogencies.

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, katilac said:

Yes, that's what I want in the end, a legal document that describes it and says what is and isn't allowed. So it's something you personally have a copy of, not a filed government document, correct?  

Going through the misery, I would get it in writing now, while you have a likeable, reasonable neighbor. If you present it in terms of future protection against crazy neighbors, they might be willing to go in half with you. I sure wish we had thought of it!

 

additionally - if you present it as your "parents are elderly and who knows what the people the house is sold to would be like.  The current landlords of the house next door would probably have to deal with them.  (and if they plan on selling sooner - it would make it easier for them as buyers wouldn't get cold feet.)

3 hours ago, Beth S said:

Yes, I have the legal document here with me.  I googled, and apparently any Deed of Easement will be filed at the County Clerks Office. 

you want it filed with the city/county for protection.  

[skimomma]

It might be worth a call to the city to see if they have a code enforcement officer or someone else that handles the intel for rentals.  It would be free to talk with someone like this and it would be a chance to gather some intel before contacting an attorney.  Things I would want to know:

1.  Is the property within rental compliance?  As in, is it a legal rental and if so, what are the rules about rentals, occupation numbers, and parking?  Our city has very detailed rules about this.  You might find something that could help you.  There is even a chance it is not a legal rental!  

2.  Ask how shared driveways are normally handled in disputes like this.  Again, free "legal advice."  They might not be able to solve your problem, but gathering a much info as possible will accelerate any discussion with a lawyer and possibly save you billed hours.

3.  If the result of #2 is that it is actually illegal to park on the shared driveway, this might ultimately be a police issue.

It might also be worth a chat with other neighbors in the neighborhood that also have shared driveways, if you know anyone.  Or a realtor that is active in the area.  Knowing what realtors are telling prospective buyers about shared driveway use could also clue you in to laws/ordinances that could help you.

[Harriet Vane]

I agree about determining the legalities and getting something in writing, even if it is a simple letter stating the code and informing them of the correct behavior.

But also do not underestimate the power of a firm voice and strong face. Honestly, has anyone said, “It is not reasonable for you to block the driveway. I’m not going to knock on your door. This has to stop. Park elsewhere or I will escalate this.”

Edited April 18, 2022 by Harriet Vane
typo

[textilexst]

It sounds like the neighbors are not cool people at all. Normal people would not act this way because this makes the situation worse for them and their parents.
I suggest you find a lawyer like the Best court martial lawyers to sort things out. It might sound excessive, but they are the only people able to figure out how to solve this problem. You need someone to put a full stop to this case by appealing some legislation.
Such cases imply that the property lines can be long and bothersome if any of the parties do not find a lawyer to end this.

Edited June 22, 2022 by textilexst

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, textilexst said:

It sounds like the neighbors are not cool people at all. Normal people would not act this way because this makes the situation worse for them and their parents.

Welcome to the forum, textilexst! How did you find us? Do you homeschool your kids?