S/O Energy Independence - EV

[KSera]

13 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

We need to talk about your gas stove, your health and climate change

 

This is a disturbing issue for me. Our stove is gas and I have noticed the effect on air quality when it is on. We have an air quality monitor (due to wildfire and such) and I see pollutants climb in the kitchen when we are cooking. That has concerned me, and reading the above article, it does so even more. We do have an exhaust hood, but given I can see Co2 levels rise on my monitor, clearly it's not drawing all the products of combustion out of the house. We would otherwise have zero intention to replace our stove though. It's well made and should last a long time. I wish there was a cleaner way to run it.

[mommyoffive]

46 minutes ago, KSera said:

This is a disturbing issue for me. Our stove is gas and I have noticed the effect on air quality when it is on. We have an air quality monitor (due to wildfire and such) and I see pollutants climb in the kitchen when we are cooking. That has concerned me, and reading the above article, it does so even more. We do have an exhaust hood, but given I can see Co2 levels rise on my monitor, clearly it's not drawing all the products of combustion out of the house. We would otherwise have zero intention to replace our stove though. It's well made and should last a long time. I wish there was a cleaner way to run it.

I have gas everything too and I hate it.  I run the hood and whole house fan in cold weather, or open the windows.  

 

 

In other news my dh is getting over the MPG you are supposed to be getting in our new Hybrid Toyota minivan.   

[TechWife]

4 hours ago, KSera said:

Absolutely. In this case, I think it's a strong case of what Sneezyone said recently in another thread, "Better is better". Especially when we are facing an emergent situation with global warming and need to cut emissions as much as we can as soon as we can. Waiting until we have something that has zero reliance on non-renewable energy means waiting too long to start changing the course of what will happen. We can make a big difference starting now, and hopefully just keep improving from there.

I agree. These decisions fall into the camp of not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. We shouldn't let our desire to have the perfect solution prevent us from enacting the less than perfect solutions that we have and know will improve the situation. I mentioned on another thread that it will take a combination of strategies to reduce carbon emissions - and this is only one of them. We will likely need wind and solar and hyrdo and biofuel and fossil fuels. We will need to reduce plastic use to reduce petroleum consumption while at the same time increasing the use of renewables. It may mean adjusting personal expectations, not just in how we get around, but also how we eat, shop and spend our leisure time. We need to change our habits, which is something people are just naturally resistant to, at least here in the US. Getting past the "we've never done it that way before" type of outlook is a big need in a lot of areas, not just in environmental stewardship. Just like there isn't any one thing that has caused the damage, it will take many things working together to slow/stop/recover. Emissions and EV get a lot of press because driving affects a lot of people and it is also a way to impact the waster (CO2 emissions) that is having the largest (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) impact on our environment. The slogan "Think global, act local" really is the way forward. If we wait until we have the perfect solution with 100% by-in, then we will never act. Everyone needs to do something. An EV is one of the somethings I can do. Maybe others will be able to do it as well in the not too distant future. After all, there weren't always set expectations of for home insulation standards, but there are now. Those standards have saved energy over the years and people who replace windows in old houses also see an immediate impact on their power bills. Speed limits save gas, whether we like it or not. We are a lot more careful with campfires now than we used to be because we were made aware of the danger and the impact that they have on the environment. Smokey the Bear was a big deal when I was a kid, now kids are routinely taught to care for their campgrounds because those of us that grew up with Smokey are parents and grandparents now. "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" and "think global, act local" can take us a long way.

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

In other news my dh is getting over the MPG you are supposed to be getting in our new Hybrid Toyota minivan.   

Nice! Is it a plugin hybrid or standard hybrid? The minivan segment is one that is so ripe for someone to put out a full electric! I can't believe no one is doing it yet.

[Laura Corin]

53 minutes ago, KSera said:

This is a disturbing issue for me. Our stove is gas and I have noticed the effect on air quality when it is on. We have an air quality monitor (due to wildfire and such) and I see pollutants climb in the kitchen when we are cooking. That has concerned me, and reading the above article, it does so even more. We do have an exhaust hood, but given I can see Co2 levels rise on my monitor, clearly it's not drawing all the products of combustion out of the house. We would otherwise have zero intention to replace our stove though. It's well made and should last a long time. I wish there was a cleaner way to run it.

There's a good article in the NYT about gas stove pollution too. We had already decided to switch to induction when we renovate.

The Case for Induction Cooking https://nyti.ms/3Cy3j9w

[TechWife]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

Nice! Is it a plugin hybrid or standard hybrid? The minivan segment is one that is so ripe for someone to put out a full electric! I can't believe no one is doing it yet.

Does the VW Beetle count as a minivan? The ID Buzz is  available in Europe and is supposed to be available in the US at some point in the near future. Probably not what you're looking for, but it looks fun anyway.

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Nice! Is it a plugin hybrid or standard hybrid? The minivan segment is one that is so ripe for someone to put out a full electric! I can't believe no one is doing it yet.

It is a standard hybrid.  I thought the Chrysler was a full electric, but I just looked again and it is a plug in hybrid.   Yes, I wisht there was a full electric minivan on the market now.  That would have been great.  With the MPG that we are getting with this I really want to get rid of our old minivan and get another one of these now.  I just don't want to have to pay for it. 

[mommyoffive]

Just now, TechWife said:

Does the VW Beetle count as a minivan? The ID Buzz is  available in Europe and is supposed to be available in the US at some point in the near future. Probably not what you're looking for, but it looks fun anyway.

I saw that in one of the articles mentioned.  I think it would depend on how many it really seats.  I think the one in Europe only has 2 rows.  I mean it can still be a minvan with 2 rows.  I am sure people would like it.  Just for bigger family we need 3 rows.  And really we need it to seat 8 so that 7 can sit sort of comfy.

[Arcadia]

2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

It is a standard hybrid.  I thought the Chrysler was a full electric, but I just looked again and it is a plug in hybrid.   Yes, I wisht there was a full electric minivan on the market now.  That would have been great.  With the MPG that we are getting with this I really want to get rid of our old minivan and get another one of these now.  I just don't want to have to pay for it. 

We are eyeing the Sienna hybrid for road trips but intend to keep our 2006 Corolla for short grocery runs as parking lots are mostly compact lots. Is yours the 8 seater or 7 seater? We rented a 8 seater Sienna for 5 adults and two toddlers when we did our two weeks LA/SD/LV/Death Valley trip 14 years ago and it was very comfortable even for my mom with rheumatoid arthritis. 

[KSera]

7 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

There's a good article in the NYT about gas stove pollution too. We had already decided to switch to induction when we renovate.

The Case for Induction Cooking https://nyti.ms/3Cy3j9w

That was a good piece. It actually encouraged me (despite how discouraged I was at the beginning by this: "Worse, a recent study demonstrated that 75 percent of these emissions occur when the stove is off."). I mean, I'm still discouraged to know how polluting our gas stove is, but I feel better that an eventual switch to induction wouldn't be a big downgrade. We cook with all stainless and cast iron, so I would need to learn how you prevent scratching the surface. Our current cast iron grates are work horses. Still, I don't know how or when we would replace. Our current oven/stove combo works great and is higher end than anything we would have put in ourself (the previous owner liked to cook and put in good stuff), and it goes way against my nature to replace something that is working well.

[KSera]

17 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Does the VW Beetle count as a minivan? The ID Buzz is  available in Europe and is supposed to be available in the US at some point in the near future. Probably not what you're looking for, but it looks fun anyway.

It does look fun. It looks like 2024 for the US and later for the 6 seater version, which is what we would want (I think that one is going to be priced too high anyway).

9 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

We rented a 8 seater Sienna for 5 adults and two toddlers when we did our two weeks LA/SD/LV/Death Valley trip 14 years ago and it was very comfortable even for my mom with rheumatoid arthritis. 

Unless they switched back, Sienna went away from the very roomy 8 seat configuration they used to make to a configuration more like the Odyssey where the 8th seat is kind of a mini seat. I thought that was disappointing.

[popmom]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

There's a good article in the NYT about gas stove pollution too. We had already decided to switch to induction when we renovate.

The Case for Induction Cooking https://nyti.ms/3Cy3j9w

A rebuttal in this thread to this article--just to muddy the waters a bit. 😉 The thread is overall in favor of induction. I just though the first comment was interesting--if sources are important. I don't think that comment means the NYT article is completely without merit. I wouldn't have a gas stove either. I have asthma. And all these spec home builders keep putting ventless gas log fireplaces in new homes. It's mind boggling. 

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30654693

eta: one BIG pro for natural gas is that we are not dependent on other countries for it. The U.S. and Canada are major producers of natural gas. So not good for health but good for energy independence.

Edited March 14, 2022 by popmom

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

I thought the Chrysler was a full electric, but I just looked again and it is a plug in hybrid.

The Chrysler is a parallel hybrid (I'm not sure if that's the technical term). Meaning it can use solely the electric engine or the gas engine. The car will use only the electric engine until I run out of batteries or I need more power (rarely happens, usually I'm going up a steep hill and I'm low on batteries). However every few months it will run the gas engine for a bit for maintenance 1) to use up the gas in your tank and 2) to run the engine.

Other hybrids are serial. Meaning the gas engine charges the battery to power the electric engine, so the gas engine is nearly always on, unless the car is 100% charged I suppose. 

Parallel type must be plug-in but the serial type can be either plug-in or not.

It's the car I have and yes I'm always a little bummed when it switches to the gas engine because the electric engine runs smoother and quieter.

[Clarita]

You do lose the stow away seat capability for the middle row, and it can only be a 7-seater. I forgot if the pure gas Chrysler can be an 8-seater, but then that one can stow-away the middle row. Oh and they advertised that 3 car seats can fit in the back row, while that's technically true, I've tried it and it's not easy and you do have to have at least 2 skinnier car seats.

Sorry I looked at Toyota, Honda and Chrysler when we got out mini-van and some of the features that don't matter to me blended together. (8 vs 7 seats was one of those features) 

[mommyoffive]

3 hours ago, Arcadia said:

We are eyeing the Sienna hybrid for road trips but intend to keep our 2006 Corolla for short grocery runs as parking lots are mostly compact lots. Is yours the 8 seater or 7 seater? We rented a 8 seater Sienna for 5 adults and two toddlers when we did our two weeks LA/SD/LV/Death Valley trip 14 years ago and it was very comfortable even for my mom with rheumatoid arthritis. 

We went with the 8 person Sienna hybrid.  

[mommyoffive]

3 hours ago, KSera said:

It does look fun. It looks like 2024 for the US and later for the 6 seater version, which is what we would want (I think that one is going to be priced too high anyway).

Unless they switched back, Sienna went away from the very roomy 8 seat configuration they used to make to a configuration more like the Odyssey where the 8th seat is kind of a mini seat. I thought that was disappointing.

Yes, the 8th seat is a mini seat like the Odyssey.  What was it like before?  So far my kids think it is more roomier than the Odyssey.

[mommyoffive]

1 hour ago, Clarita said:

The Chrysler is a parallel hybrid (I'm not sure if that's the technical term). Meaning it can use solely the electric engine or the gas engine. The car will use only the electric engine until I run out of batteries or I need more power (rarely happens, usually I'm going up a steep hill and I'm low on batteries). However every few months it will run the gas engine for a bit for maintenance 1) to use up the gas in your tank and 2) to run the engine.

Other hybrids are serial. Meaning the gas engine charges the battery to power the electric engine, so the gas engine is nearly always on, unless the car is 100% charged I suppose. 

Parallel type must be plug-in but the serial type can be either plug-in or not.

It's the car I have and yes I'm always a little bummed when it switches to the gas engine because the electric engine runs smoother and quieter.

But it only goes like 30 some miles on the battery right and then switches to gas for the rest of the ride correct? 

[mommyoffive]

1 hour ago, Clarita said:

You do lose the stow away seat capability for the middle row, and it can only be a 7-seater. I forgot if the pure gas Chrysler can be an 8-seater, but then that one can stow-away the middle row. Oh and they advertised that 3 car seats can fit in the back row, while that's technically true, I've tried it and it's not easy and you do have to have at least 2 skinnier car seats.

Sorry I looked at Toyota, Honda and Chrysler when we got out mini-van and some of the features that don't matter to me blended together. (8 vs 7 seats was one of those features) 

Oh for sure.  When we bought our old van 7 years ago the things I was looking for were different than they are now.  I needed something that could work with 5 carseats back then, and now I don't. 

[KSera]

27 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Yes, the 8th seat is a mini seat like the Odyssey.  What was it like before?  So far my kids think it is more roomier than the Odyssey.

It used to be a full sized seat. The outer two were like captains chairs with an armrest only on the outisde and the middle one was full width so that all together they made the equivalent of a three person bench seat (but captain style, if that makes sense). I could fit three full size car seats across that middle row without paying any mind to which seats puzzled with which seats. Any three would fit. It was great. But then they changed it around 2015-16 or somewhere in there so that it was the mini seat. The old one was comfortable even for an adult sitting between two car seats.

 

eta: picture

looks like I misremembered the outer armrest.

Edited March 15, 2022 by KSera

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

It used to be a full sized seat. The outer two were like captains chairs with an armrest only on the outisde and the middle one was full width so that all together they made the equivalent of a three person bench seat (but captain style, if that makes sense). I could fit three full size car seats across that middle row without paying any mind to which seats puzzled with which seats. Any three would fit. It was great. But then they changed it around 2015-16 or somewhere in there so that it was the mini seat. The old one was comfortable even for an adult sitting between two car seats.

Ugh, what a bummer.  I would have loved that now.  

[Clarita]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

But it only goes like 30 some miles on the battery right and then switches to gas for the rest of the ride correct? 

Yes, it's usually about 30-35miles for me. That really gets me to all the places I need to go. I mean if you start going downhill for a while regenerative braking stuff can charge your batteries a bit. 

[Laura Corin]

8 hours ago, popmom said:

A rebuttal in this thread to this article--just to muddy the waters a bit. 😉 The thread is overall in favor of induction. I just though the first comment was interesting--if sources are important. I don't think that comment means the NYT article is completely without merit. I wouldn't have a gas stove either. I have asthma. And all these spec home builders keep putting ventless gas log fireplaces in new homes. It's mind boggling. 

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30654693

eta: one BIG pro for natural gas is that we are not dependent on other countries for it. The U.S. and Canada are major producers of natural gas. So not good for health but good for energy independence.

Thanks. For me the health aspect was something I hadn't considered when choosing induction. Husband does have asthma, however, and we have already given up our dreams of a log burner in the living room.

Husband had always wanted the hob on the kitchen island, but I had vetoed because of how messy our gas hob gets - I like it not to be facing the room. The induction is easier to clean. We bought a single burner to try and like it.

Scotland is close to 100 percent on renewable energy production, despite oil and gas reserves, so that's okay, I think.

[TexasProud]

Ok...another thread to avoid.  We put in our gas stove AND I LOVE IT. Ok.. back to safety.

[mommyoffive]

16 hours ago, KSera said:

It used to be a full sized seat. The outer two were like captains chairs with an armrest only on the outisde and the middle one was full width so that all together they made the equivalent of a three person bench seat (but captain style, if that makes sense). I could fit three full size car seats across that middle row without paying any mind to which seats puzzled with which seats. Any three would fit. It was great. But then they changed it around 2015-16 or somewhere in there so that it was the mini seat. The old one was comfortable even for an adult sitting between two car seats.

 

eta: picture

looks like I misremembered the outer armrest.

Oh thanks for the picture.  It looks like the width from the middle seat came from having no armrests at all in the row.  I looked in the 2nd row of the 2022 hybrid and the captains chairs have armrests on both sides, so then that leaves no space for a full size seat.  

Edited March 15, 2022 by mommyoffive

[KSera]

15 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Oh thanks for the picture.  It looks like the width from the middle seat came from having no armrests at all in the row.  I looked in the 2nd row of the 2022 hybrid and the captains chairs have armrests on both sides, so then that leaves no space for a full size seat.  

Yep. With kids, I'd much rather lose the armrests and have more space. And obviously with carseats, the armrests are totally useless. But even without, I think the option of not having them and having more seat room is better for people with large families. I can certainly see that for someone who isn't going to use 8 seats, they might prefer the armrests.

[mommyoffive]

8 minutes ago, KSera said:

Yep. With kids, I'd much rather lose the armrests and have more space. And obviously with carseats, the armrests are totally useless. But even without, I think the option of not having them and having more seat room is better for people with large families. I can certainly see that for someone who isn't going to use 8 seats, they might prefer the armrests.

I haven't sat in the back yet, but the way the armrests just fold up I feel like it gives the option of having armrests down or having them up and the middle seat having extra space.  Does that make sense?  Our Honda 2015 doesn't have armrests for the middle seat.   Anyway I love armrests.  Truly.  When looking for a new car and getting rid of dh's car that was one thing I put on the need lists.  His old car didn't have any other than the one in the door.  I really like this design. But I only have one left in a carseat.  The other is in a booster. 

[rebcoola]

We are looking at getting rid of our truck and doing an ev since we sold our travel trailer. There are not a ton of options that will hold 4 adult size people and a car seat comfortably.  We don't all need to get in often but it does happen.  We can all squeeze into our VW Jetta using the radian car seat so that's kind of our minimum size. Looking it seems like there will be a lot more choices in 2 yrs for larger options.  

[Resilient]

Maybe a bit off main topic, but the thought of using solar power on the roof to power the EV in the garage came up...so here goes:

Check with your local fire department to see what they say about this.  A couple of years ago, our FD said that they weren't going to be as aggressive sending firefighters into buildings with solar panels on top. The roofs tend to collapse (sooner) under the weight of the panels, making the situation more dangerous. 

A garage is likely to require the entry of a firefighter (looking for missing people or pets) but it's still worth thinking through.

[KSera]

20 minutes ago, Resilient said:

Check with your local fire department to see what they say about this.  A couple of years ago, our FD said that they weren't going to be as aggressive sending firefighters into buildings with solar panels on top.

Yikes. How does that work in areas where solar panels are quite common? EV aside, we are highly interested in having solar panels added to our roof when it is feasible for us to do so. I have never heard anyone else I know who has them mention anything about that being a problem for firefighters. I will look into it and see what I find.

Eta: and now that I’m thinking about it, one family we know who has a large solar array on their roof that provides them all the power they need for nine months of the year (during the winter months, they have heaters running on all of their farm animal water troughs to make sure nothing freezes, and that takes more energy than they get at that time of year), the man is actually a retired fire department battalion chief from the local fire department. So I think I will ask him directly. He should certainly know.

[Arcadia]

@Resilient@KSera

https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/consumers-guide-fire-safety-solar-systems
“HOW DO I KNOW IF MY LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT IS TRAINED AND PREPARED TO FIGHT A PV-RELATED FIRE?

First, let your local firehouse know that your home or building has a PV system installed. You can do this either by directly communicating it or by using proper safety labeling on your home and PV system. Free online training is available for your local fire department through www.cleanenergytraining.org.”

[Clarita]

Gosh I sure hope our fire department knows how to handle solar panels. They are all over my neighborhood, especially after the electric power company decided that instead of working harder to fix/provide maintenance to our power lines they will just shut off power when there is a risk of fires.

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, Clarita said:

Gosh I sure hope our fire department knows how to handle solar panels. They are all over my neighborhood, especially after the electric power company decided that instead of working harder to fix/provide maintenance to our power lines they will just shut off power when there is a risk of fires.

It’s not so much about “handling” the panels as it is the fact that it will take less damage/less time for the added weight of many panels to collapse the roof.  
Like how I have a crappy chair with wobbly legs that my 11yo might be able to sit on, but MY butt would crash to the floor. More weight on a damaged structure.   
 

Now, the Tesla roof is a whole other thing, because I don’t know how one vents a fire there, or how/if you can even climb on it, especially when wet!

[popmom]

I haven’t followed the thread today, but this was in our local news.

Mercedes Benz opens battery plant as it plans to go all electric by 2030 (in Alabama)

Edited March 16, 2022 by popmom
Fix link

[Laura Corin]

As we were talking about Scotland - interesting local project using wind for power and hydrogen as energy storage and supply.

BBC News - The neighbourhood leading a green energy revolution
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60241966

[Pam in CT]

re storing energy as hydrogen

6 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

As we were talking about Scotland - interesting local project using wind for power and hydrogen as energy storage and supply.

BBC News - The neighbourhood leading a green energy revolution
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60241966

Oh, that is interesting. I'm not sure I fully follow the chemistry (decidedly not my strength, LOL) but that's the sort of thinking-outside-the-current-battery-box I think is necessary.

I have an engineering student nephew who extolled the theoretical virutes in ocean-side locations of using solar -or wind-generated energy to *physically lift* water when the sun is shining/wind is blowing; store it at elevation; then re-capture the energy by letting it flow back down when you need it. (That's the sort of mechanical process my non-science brain can hold...)

Edited March 16, 2022 by Pam in CT

[Arcadia]

16 hours ago, Clarita said:

Gosh I sure hope our fire department knows how to handle solar panels. They are all over my neighborhood, especially after the electric power company decided that instead of working harder to fix/provide maintenance to our power lines they will just shut off power when there is a risk of fires.

https://www.pge.com/en_US/about-pge/media-newsroom/news-details.page?pageID=c77a4e23-f8fc-4774-9786-0dba87a203db&ts=1646754047003

”SAN FRANCISCO & DETROIT--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) and General Motors (GM) today announced a breakthrough collaboration to pilot the use of GM electric vehicles (EVs) as on-demand power sources for homes in PG&E’s service area.

….

 

How the Pilot Will Work

PG&E and GM aim to test the pilot’s first vehicle-to-home capable EV and charger by summer 2022. The pilot will include the use of bidirectional hardware coupled with software-defined communications protocols that will enable power to flow from a charged EV into a customer’s home, automatically coordinating between the EV, home, and PG&E’s electric supply. The pilot will include multiple GM EVs.

Following lab testing, PG&E and GM plan to test vehicle-to-home interconnection allowing a small subset of customers’ homes to safely receive power from the EV when power stops flowing from the electric grid. Through this field demonstration, PG&E and GM aim to develop a user-friendly vehicle-to-home customer experience for this new technology. Both teams are working quickly to scale the pilot with the goal of opening larger customer trials by the end of 2022.”

 

[Bootsie]

We haven't bought a car in years; our "new car" has 145K miles on it. The last time we were purchasing a car, there were not really any EV options that were practical, so I haven't really researched the possibilities.  One question I have is whether there are any issues associated with having an EV car sit for a month without being driven.  Are there any battery issues if the battery is not being drained on a regular basis?  

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

One question I have is whether there are any issues associated with having an EV car sit for a month without being driven.  Are there any battery issues if the battery is not being drained on a regular basis?  

This is a good question. Knowing what's best for the battery can help it last as long as possible. I'm not an expert in more complicated battery scenarios, but basically, you don't want to store any lithium battery at 100%. Most EVs have a way to choose how much you want to charge it, and best practice is to only charge to 100% when you are going to be driving right after, not if the car will then sit. 90% is a pretty typical level to charge to for daily driving rather than long trips when you would charge to 100% (I'm terrible and just charge mine all the way most of the time 😳). If the car then sits, the average EV battery loses about 1% of charge a day. So, if you left it parked for a month, it might lose 40% of its charge (so if it had a range of 220 miles to start with, it would have a range of 132 miles after a month). These are just sample numbers, but pretty typical for many EVs that I am familiar with.

Like any battery, you don't want to have it stored on empty either. The issue is the same with an ICE battery, but an EV battery is obviously much more expensive to replace if you damage it by having it sit empty for a long time. Our ICE car frequently sits for 1-2 months between being driven, so we have a battery tender we hook it up to once a month or so to top off the battery. Before we did that, we had to replace it due to lack of driving. Oops. I would do the same if I had an EV that wasn't being used. An EV could just be plugged into a standard 120V outlet to keep it from sitting empty.

So, more specific to your original question, the main issue wouldn't so much be not draining it regularly, but not charging it to 100% before having it sit, and especially not letting it sit for so many months that it goes to zero and then just sits there like that without ever having any charge added back to it.

I hope that is somewhat helpful.

[Clarita]

5 hours ago, Arcadia said:

https://www.pge.com/en_US/about-pge/media-newsroom/news-details.page?pageID=c77a4e23-f8fc-4774-9786-0dba87a203db&ts=1646754047003

”SAN FRANCISCO & DETROIT--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) and General Motors (GM) today announced a breakthrough collaboration to pilot the use of GM electric vehicles (EVs) as on-demand power sources for homes in PG&E’s service area.

That would be helpful. We actually ended up getting Tesla power walls, after we dealt with one consecutive 4-day outage. It actually worked out really well for us because Tesla is trying to start a program where I can helps supply my neighbors during a power outage and "they" will pay me. Add it helps us reduce our electricity costs. We are so very lucky we have enough to be able to afford the up-front costs.  

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

This is a good question. Knowing what's best for the battery can help it last as long as possible. I'm not an expert in more complicated battery scenarios, but basically, you don't want to store any lithium battery at 100%. Most EVs have a way to choose how much you want to charge it, and best practice is to only charge to 100% when you are going to be driving right after, not if the car will then sit. 90% is a pretty typical level to charge to for daily driving rather than long trips when you would charge to 100% (I'm terrible and just charge mine all the way most of the time 😳). If the car then sits, the average EV battery loses about 1% of charge a day. So, if you left it parked for a month, it might lose 40% of its charge (so if it had a range of 220 miles to start with, it would have a range of 132 miles after a month). These are just sample numbers, but pretty typical for many EVs that I am familiar with.

Like any battery, you don't want to have it stored on empty either. The issue is the same with an ICE battery, but an EV battery is obviously much more expensive to replace if you damage it by having it sit empty for a long time. Our ICE car frequently sits for 1-2 months between being driven, so we have a battery tender we hook it up to once a month or so to top off the battery. Before we did that, we had to replace it due to lack of driving. Oops. I would do the same if I had an EV that wasn't being used. An EV could just be plugged into a standard 120V outlet to keep it from sitting empty.

So, more specific to your original question, the main issue wouldn't so much be not draining it regularly, but not charging it to 100% before having it sit, and especially not letting it sit for so many months that it goes to zero and then just sits there like that without ever having any charge added back to it.

I hope that is somewhat helpful.

Thanks!  That is helpful information.  I don't know what we will do when we need to replace a car.  Our driving patterns have changed quite a bit in the past few years due to children moving out and changes in work--and then COVID.  We tend to drive either very short distances (a couple of miles a day) or long distances (300-1000 miles in a day) and not much in between.  

[TechWife]

On 3/15/2022 at 5:24 PM, Resilient said:

Maybe a bit off main topic, but the thought of using solar power on the roof to power the EV in the garage came up...so here goes:

Check with your local fire department to see what they say about this.  A couple of years ago, our FD said that they weren't going to be as aggressive sending firefighters into buildings with solar panels on top. The roofs tend to collapse (sooner) under the weight of the panels, making the situation more dangerous. 

A garage is likely to require the entry of a firefighter (looking for missing people or pets) but it's still worth thinking through.

It doesn’t bother me. Fire can take my stuff, I don’t care. Our garage isn’t attached to our house. We have homeowners insurance. I trust the FD to make the best decision at the time. I’m honestly can’t live my life worried about stuff like this. The town permitted the house & the panels and issued an occupancy permit. They know the panels are here. It’s as safe as it will ever be. 
 

ETA: it isn’t that I take this lightly. 
I honestly can’t live my life worrying about stuff like this. Risks are everywhere. This is one I can’t affect. I’ll save my energy for things I can impact. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by TechWife

[Hilltopmom]

On 3/14/2022 at 9:50 PM, mommyoffive said:

Yes, the 8th seat is a mini seat like the Odyssey.  What was it like before?  So far my kids think it is more roomier than the Odyssey.

You still can’t get the 8th seat with the AWD though, can you?

[mommyoffive]

14 hours ago, Hilltopmom said:

You still can’t get the 8th seat with the AWD though, can you?

You are talking about getting the 8th seat in the Toyota and having AWD correct?   Yes you can get the 8th seat and AWD.  That is what we got.  It is a Toyota hybrid 8 passenger AWD Hybrid.

Last I looked Honda didn't have AWD on their minivan. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by mommyoffive

[Hilltopmom]

37 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

You are talking about getting the 8th seat in the Toyota and having AWD correct?   Yes you can get the 8th seat and AWD.  That is what we got.  It is a Toyota hybrid 8 passenger AWD Hybrid.

Last I looked Honda didn't have AWD on their minivan. 

Oh yes I meant the Toyota. The older versions I seem to remember you could only have 7 seats with AWD. (Or maybe I’m misremembering and it was the adapted wheelchair version I couldn’t get in AWD at the time… it all runs together after a bunch of years.)

Sounds awesome. I love my current sienna!

thanks. Carry on

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, Hilltopmom said:

Oh yes I meant the Toyota. The older versions I seem to remember you could only have 7 seats with AWD. (Or maybe I’m misremembering and it was the adapted wheelchair version I couldn’t get in AWD at the time… it all runs together after a bunch of years.)

Sounds awesome. I love my current sienna!

thanks. Carry on

It does all run together doesn't it?  The last I remember Toyota was the only minivan that came with AWD.   We wanted it 7 years ago when we bought our Honda, but it just wouldn't work with the carseats and actually getting into the 3rd row with 3 carseats in the second row.  It will come in handy all winter.  I have no clue if you couldn't have it with different versions before.