Hours Per Day?

[Slache]

How many hours per day does high school take including seat work, reading, art, music and PE.?

[Farrar]

My kids typically have had to work the full day - 6-7 hours and occasionally more when they get behind and there's something due for an outside class. No more of this school only takes a few hours line that you hear for elementary school. I'm sure someone will come in and say no, you only need 2-3 hours a day for high school and maybe there are some really smart kids who can get work done really efficiently and quickly, but in my experience, kids who spend that long on high school homeschooling are either doing really super basic programs, often online ones, or are absurdly bright and bored and should actually be doing more anyway to get more of a challenge, even if that challenge is above and beyond what most kids are doing.

[Slache]

18 minutes ago, Farrar said:

My kids typically have had to work the full day - 6-7 hours and occasionally more when they get behind and there's something due for an outside class. No more of this school only takes a few hours line that you hear for elementary school. I'm sure someone will come in and say no, you only need 2-3 hours a day for high school and maybe there are some really smart kids who can get work done really efficiently and quickly, but in my experience, kids who spend that long on high school homeschooling are either doing really super basic programs, often online ones, or are absurdly bright and bored and should actually be doing more anyway to get more of a challenge, even if that challenge is above and beyond what most kids are doing.

My concern is that I want to do Old Western Culture, a Literature and History curriculum that takes about 90 minutes per day. I think it's very likely that my child (currently in 5th grade) will want to go to college, which means I will also need to fit in Geography, Economics and Government. This is also my child who does work in two languages, plays two instruments and is learning Ancient Greek and suddenly the hours are just piling on. I acknowledge my ignorance in not seeing how things will evolve, I'm just trying to fill in those pre-high school gaps and getting concerned.

[Slache]

Of course, one of the reasons I want so much from him is because that's who he is and if that's who he is then he will be faster and more efficient than I'm picturing. I would never ask this of my other kids, it would be too much.

I'm overthinking.

[Farrar]

5 minutes ago, Slache said:

My concern is that I want to do Old Western Culture, a Literature and History curriculum that takes about 90 minutes per day. I think it's very likely that my child (currently in 5th grade) will want to go to college, which means I will also need to fit in Geography, Economics and Government. This is also my child who does work in two languages, plays two instruments and is learning Ancient Greek and suddenly the hours are just piling on. I acknowledge my ignorance in not seeing how things will evolve, I'm just trying to fill in those pre-high school gaps and getting concerned.

So, there is a condensed schedule for it. Not sure exactly about the specific hours. Also, I'm dubious that any curriculum provider can tell you exactly how long a thing will take... though I suppose that one is mostly lecture videos. But they don't know your kid's reading speed or how quickly he can write a paper.

You don't have to do econ, geography, or government every year! You don't even have to go a credit in geography at all. And many kids have a combined credit in econ and government. Plus, you can potentially go lighter and count Old Western Culture as an English and a history credit. My understanding is that it's a two credit worthy course. So then you additionally do maybe a year or two of rhetoric, a year of US history, and a year with a combined econ and government credit and you're covered. That means your kid is doing three humanities (English and social studies) credits per year - Old Western Culture (2 credits) + one more traditional high school credit each year. That's more than many kids, but not crazy for an academic, college-bound kid. Most kids are doing 5 academic credits (4 core + language) every year, plus 1-2 electives, and sometimes those are academic as well. So that's totally in line. Now, you may be imagining doing another full English credit every year... but still... options... things to consider...

Also! It's a ways off. Cross that bridge when you come to it. It's common for high schools to work anywhere from 5-10 hours a day IME. Lots of time to figure out where your kid will fall and what his tolerance will be.

[BusyMom5]

6, at least. I count the 4 main subjects one hour each,  but often math can take longer.  Depending on the assign, English can take longer, too.  If you add a FL, add an hour.  I don't usually count our elective time as 'school' because they tend to do it on their own.  

[Slache]

7 minutes ago, Farrar said:

So, there is a condensed schedule for it. Not sure exactly about the specific hours. Also, I'm dubious that any curriculum provider can tell you exactly how long a thing will take... though I suppose that one is mostly lecture videos. But they don't know your kid's reading speed or how quickly he can write a paper.

You don't have to do econ, geography, or government every year! You don't even have to go a credit in geography at all. And many kids have a combined credit in econ and government. Plus, you can potentially go lighter and count Old Western Culture as an English and a history credit. My understanding is that it's a two credit worthy course. So then you additionally do maybe a year or two of rhetoric, a year of US history, and a year with a combined econ and government credit and you're covered. That means your kid is doing three humanities (English and social studies) credits per year - Old Western Culture (2 credits) + one more traditional high school credit each year. That's more than many kids, but not crazy for an academic, college-bound kid. Most kids are doing 5 academic credits (4 core + language) every year, plus 1-2 electives, and sometimes those are academic as well. So that's totally in line. Now, you may be imagining doing another full English credit every year... but still... options... things to consider...

Also! It's a ways off. Cross that bridge when you come to it. It's common for high schools to work anywhere from 5-10 hours a day IME. Lots of time to figure out where your kid will fall and what his tolerance will be.

Not geography, economics and government every year, just within the four years.

Yes, you've pretty much described what I want to do. I think we can, I think we can, I think we can...

[JennyD]

I don't really keep track at this point but my 10th grader works a ton.  Much more than my 5th grader or even my 8th grader.  

If your oldest is in 5th grade, though, I would not spend any time figuring out high school now.  

 

[cintinative]

I agree with Farrar. 6-7 hours is about what we spend. If you figure for a one credit hour class that it is one hour per day, then with six or seven classes that is six or seven hours per day.  My kids have not done outside music though (with a teacher). My guess is that would add even more time.

We tried starting with Great Conversation I in 7th (Wilson Hill) and that approach didn't work for us. Too much reading and too young to appreciate the works.  YMMV of course. A mature 7th grader might be able to start on the OWC stuff.  

Since your oldest appears to be a 5th grader, I would also agree with the comment that I would not make plans now.  A lot can change in a couple of years. One of the factors for us in not choosing OWC was that my kids did not really like learning via video. There are sample videos you can watch.  I could watch them and think they were fine but my kids hate that kind of thing. So we did watch the samples together, and they vetoed the program. 

 

 

[Clemsondana]

My high schooler works a lot.  We can do up to 8 credits each year (in our state, most people use an umbrella, and most will only count 8 credits).  But, 8 credits is a lot to work with!  We have several credits that we did light versions of - our state requires personal finance and health, and we have been mellow with those sorts of credits.  We did a fun and fairly mellow gov at home and then did a more time-intensive online econ class.  But, each of those was only a 1/2 credit, so only one semester.  You could easily do a 1/2 credit over the summer, or do health one semester and gov the next, and then the next year do PE and econ so that it wasn't double social studies for a whole year.  A lot of the academically oreinted kids that I know like to get some of the 'dumb requirements' or fun credits done over the summer.  

But, I agree with previous posters that a lot can change.  A 5th grader could easily tire of an activity or language over the 3 years of middle school.  They may decide that they love one activity and are happy to cut others to make more time for it.  They may decide that they want more time for an internship or a job or for social activities in high school, or they may decide that their peers are goofy and they want to spend more time on academics, or they may get involved in competitions (music, academic, robotics, etc) that take a ton of focused attention and time.  At this age, I let kid have a lot of say over what we do at home vs co-op (and, next year, also the community college) and they have complete control over their extracurricular options...and while I'm pleased with what kid is doing, I can't say that it's necessarily what I would have predicted several years ago.  

[MamaSprout]

We actually think of hours per week, but with music, swim, work, classes and homework Dd is constantly busy from 7am to 9pm most days, a little shorter on weekends. I held off on paying for a World Religions class that starts January 3 until today because her schedule is so full. 

+1 for not worrying about OWC until later. I loved the idea myself, but darn it all, teens have ideas about what they want to study, and video lectures weren't going to work for Dd.

[prairiewindmomma]

Ds1 spent more like 8-10 hours because he was taking a heavy course load in terms of rigor.

Ds2 spends more like 6-7.

Don’t over think this at this point. I would be reading on the pinned threads about credits, transcripts, and working on thinking about skills versus content. I would also look at your state’s admission standards. It’s competitive. The community college in your area could be a good way to outsource science labs and math. 😉 

[freesia]

Agreeing with all above. Kids change and have opinions. I though I’d do Tapestry of Grace all the way through with them all and add in the extra Econ and government. That has only happened once. A kid who wants two languages probably won’t also want to do two social studies. The child I thought was headed STEM in fifth grade was leaning way more humanities by high school. They want jobs and hobbies and friends. Some years they may want to dig in to subjects and some years just be done. I honestly can’t say my fifth graders had much in common with my ninth graders. 
 

But to answer your question —6-8 hours a day. 

[Slache]

39 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

The community college in your area could be a good way to outsource science labs and math. 😉 

Yeah, I need to outsource math. I don't know if I want to do CC though, because I think a homeschool class will have more hand holding. Thoughts?

[ScoutTN]

Agreeing with wait and see. Research, yes, but hold off planning.

My high schooler has processing speed issues that were not evident at 5th grade and works long days to get the basics done. Her workload and course choices are very different from our original plan. Her interests have developed and shifted even after beginning high school, so we are making it up as we go along each year!

 

[Clemsondana]

2 hours ago, Slache said:

Yeah, I need to outsource math. I don't know if I want to do CC though, because I think a homeschool class will have more hand holding. Thoughts?

It will depend on the options available.  Classes at our co-op, for instance, meet once/week with science and math meeting for 2 hrs. The same class at a CC would have more live contact hours.  So, while the homeschool classes may be more flexible with scaffolding, deadlines, answering questions promptly by email, etc, the students only see the instructor once/week instead of multiple times.  But, that will depend on the structure of the outsourced class.  I, and some of the other co-op instructors, have taught at a CC or other school setting.  Some people have basically the same policies at co-op and CC, while others structure their class differently.  Some CCs are big on retention and support services and have flexible test-taking times at a testing center while others have highly inflexible attendance policies.  It's not something that is easiily decided years in advance becasue it's institution-and-instructor dependent and it's hard to know what the class structures will look like in 4-5 years.  For that matter, unexpected scheduling issues can come up.  We had considered doing a particular class at a CC, but it has a lab that meets in the afternoon and conflicts with sports practice.  We have several activities to schedule around right now.  I wouldn't have predicted that we would need this level of flexibility, but I've decided to do some courses at home because otherwise kid would struggle to continue with an extracurricular due to schedule conflicts. 

We have discussions at the start and end of most semesters about what is working, what isn't, what we want to continue with and what we want to change.  I started high school a rough outline of what required classes we plan to cover each year and a list of possible electives that I add to and scratch things off from.  But, we've rarely been able to make concrete plans too far in advance.  We are batting around ideas for next fall right now and have a couple of classes filled in, but those are mostly because kid has said that they want to do them at home.  Once the co-op and CC schedules come out, we'll look and see what is available that fits our needs, interests, and schedule.  

[Eos]

15 hours ago, Slache said:

I think we can, I think we can, I think we can...

Agree with waiting to plan, and then print this out and put it on your fridge for the teen years!

[Garga]

At least 1 hour per class, often more. Six classes is usual. So 6-8 hours/day.

[Roadrunner]

7 hours without music. Sometimes less, sometimes more. We try to have Sunday as a total rest day and Saturday no more than 3 hours of work. He needs downtime. 

My PS kid does no work outside of school hours as I can see, but tells me he does work on the bus to school. All A’s so I don’t even bother. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I wanted to throw an additional thought out there, Slache.  There are some real gaps out in society if you don't have an official high school diploma. Traditionally, a lot of non-philosophical homeschoolers got GEDs for a reason.  If you have a kid who may not go on to college, there is some benefit to getting an accredited diploma.  We've discovered a bit of this as we've looked at apprenticeships post high school for our next kid in line. I see on a lot of homeschooling blogs, "don't get a GED because it cheapens homeschooling, or it makes you look like a quitter", but I think that's propaganda, and not practical advice.

Add to that the challenge of doing high school sciences and math when you yourself are chronically ill and you have younger kids up the ranks....I'd honestly spend some time soul searching about what you're doing and why and also allow your kid to weigh in on the process. Educating your kids is a lot like feeding babies---lots of people can come to different conclusions about what is best for their families. Like babies, the goal should be feeding them well. Whether it's b-feeding or bottle feeding, homeschooling or public schooling---do it well, iykwim. 

Clemsondana gives good advice above regarding contact hours with the instructor, supports, and so on in cc versus co-op classes. I will also add that it is rare that you get a very qualified math instructor in a co-op class. It happens, but it's rare. On the other hand, most cc instructors are used to working with a lot of students who may be struggling in math or need additional supports and their instructional material and study supports are set up to deal with that.

[Farrar]

On 12/28/2021 at 5:40 PM, Slache said:

Yeah, I need to outsource math. I don't know if I want to do CC though, because I think a homeschool class will have more hand holding. Thoughts?

I agree that it totally depends. Hand holding typically costs money. I think it's money well spent, but it really depends. And sometimes you luck out and get it with a really dedicated co-op teacher (though I'd be super hesitant to do math from a parent co-op). Or have a kid who thrives at community college.

[Ellie]

On 12/28/2021 at 4:40 PM, Slache said:

Yeah, I need to outsource math. I don't know if I want to do CC though, because I think a homeschool class will have more hand holding. Thoughts?

but if your dc is capable of doing CC, why would you also think he needs hand-holding? And if he is as academically strong as you say he is, then why shouldn't he also be earning college credit? Why should he have to repeat four years of high school courses when he gets to college? Because that's pretty much what the general ed requirements are: a repeat of high school.

[Farrar]

2 minutes ago, Ellie said:

but if your dc is capable of doing CC, why would you also think he needs hand-holding? And if he is as academically strong as you say he is, then why shouldn't he also be earning college credit? Why should he have to repeat four years of high school courses when he gets to college? Because that's pretty much what the general ed requirements are: a repeat of high school.

This really depends. Let's say a student is strong in the humanities, then CC-paced math may not be right for them but CC courses in English, social sciences, etc. could be. As for repeating credits... a lot of CC's offer math courses that are basically high school math. They may not even be accepted for credit at four year colleges. It can absolutely make sense for a student to do a rigorous math course in the main sequence at home, especially before calculus, so that the pacing is slower and deeper than what you typically see at many CC's.

[Slache]

1 minute ago, Ellie said:

but if your dc is capable of doing CC, why would you also think he needs hand-holding? And if he is as academically strong as you say he is, then why shouldn't he also be earning college credit? Why should he have to repeat four years of high school courses when he gets to college? Because that's pretty much what the general ed requirements are: a repeat of high school.

There are some things I want to teach myself, like the literature course I started this thread for. Some of my kids might need hand holding and some might not. I wouldn't have brought it up so early, but it worked well into the conversation and I like Prairie's insight. 

[Roadrunner]

I know homeschoolers love CC, and we certainly dabbed some in it to have some sort of an official record, but we found quality of it really disappointing. In fact I would say CC has been a royal waste of time for DS even if his record looks better with it. 
Just a thought that CC might not be all it is made out to be. 

[ScoutTN]

There are online homeschool math classes which meet 2x a week and have good support. Not cheap, but worth it here so that I don’t have to worry about it. 

[Slache]

Just now, ScoutTN said:

There are online homeschool math classes which meet 2x a week and have good support. Not cheap, but worth it here so that I don’t have to worry about it. 

That's pretty much my plan beginning in Algebra I. 

[Ellie]

1 hour ago, Slache said:

There are some things I want to teach myself, like the literature course I started this thread for. Some of my kids might need hand holding and some might not. I wouldn't have brought it up so early, but it worked well into the conversation and I like Prairie's insight. 

My comment was mostly about the math, and also your oldest, not necessarily all of your dc.

Also, at this age, you are not filling gaps. You are primarily building basic skills, and those don't include government and economics. You would naturally teach some of those, but you are not filling gaps.

[ScoutTN]

53 minutes ago, Slache said:

That's pretty much my plan beginning in Algebra I. 

It has been an excellent experience for my student. Some learning curve for online courses, but nothing unusual. 

[BusyMom5]

I've graduated one, second is a junior, and I can say that your kids make their own path.   Each kid has to find their own way- its our job to guide them, but they have to have a say.  I believe education belongs to the one being educated.  It's good to brainstorm and have a general plan, but don't be upset if it all goes sideways 😉