Dh’s Aunt died of covid and warning: unpopular opinion inside

[Lecka]

I don’t think you can ever know a cause for one specific person, but it can be possible to show that more people have depression after an infection and account for other factors like isolation, job loss, etc.  I don’t know if that has been done — but it’s possible.

But often things can’t be known-known on an individual level, even if it seems that there is a connection on a population level.

I think when someone knows someone well or hears a person’s own explanation — that can go a long way in thinking a certain thing is very likely a cause.  

[Pawz4me]

10 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

My understanding is the depression is not a direct result of covid so much as a by product. Generally speaking, most people with a long term or crisis illness develops some level of depression, more so if they lack support or have other stressors such as employment issues or financial struggle. 

 

8 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

That can be how many people describe how their depression depression set in, regardless of the reasons it sets in.   And yes. It’s stark and it’s scary to feel it or see it in loved ones. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a direct result of covid.  Correlation and causation are very difficult to sift apart.  

Yes. Depression and anxiety are very common--almost expected--following the diagnosis with any chronic/serious health condition. I've dealt with it following both of my AI disease diagnoses. And of course DH and I have dealt with it following his cancer diagnosis. That's not to say that whatever's happening after Covid might not eventually be shown to have some unique underlying mechanism, that it's triggering something besides/in addition to the more typical anxiety/depression triggered by other health issues. But I suspect it's going to be fairly difficult to prove, given that mental health challenges are so very common after just about any serious health diagnosis.

 

[ktgrok]

10 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

That can be how many people describe how their depression depression set in, regardless of the reasons it sets in.   And yes. It’s stark and it’s scary to feel it or see it in loved ones. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a direct result of covid.  Correlation and causation are very difficult to sift apart.  

Right, but when you have sudden onset especially in addition to other neurological changes, it makes sense to understand it as a neuropsychiatric issue. 

We KNOW that brain inflammation causes mood changes. We know that Covid can cause brain inflammation. We know other viral/AI issues cause depression and mood changes. 

I don't think this is a case of looking for a biological component when there isn't one, I think that the opposite is true. We neglect to look for a biological component in many cases of depression when there probably is one. 

Heck, depression and anxiety are a common symptom of Celiac - BEFORE being diagnosed. So not because of, but from, the inflammation.

PANDAS is an obvious example - new onset anorexia or fear of eating or gagging, depression, anxiety, motor issues, etc. All known to be caused by infection/reaction to infection, and VERY similar to what we see in long Covid patients. 

[Spryte]

11 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

My sister had it in January and she has "Covid smells." Just random, awful smells.

That is such a terrible symptom! 

Not Covid, but there’s an Amy Tan essay about how she used to randomly smell dead rat, and how awful it was, when she had Lyme. 

I had the random, awful smells with Babesiosis (like malaria), and DH still laughs about the time I went to the grocery store and filled a cart with air freshener type products. It was gross.

Hope it improves for her soon.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Spryte

[SKL]

FTR I don't think anyone is denying that long covid exists, nor that some cases of covid can cause neurological side effects that may be lasting.  Our skepticism is that the meaning we are giving to "long covid" is too broad, unscientific, and unhelpful.

This does remind me of conversations about pre-covid vax injuries.  How many people were absolutely certain that their own child developed problems right after a vax, but those who didn't know the child insisted that it was all a coincidence or imagination or conspiracy theory.  Just a different approach I guess.

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

 

Yes. Depression and anxiety are very common--almost expected--following the diagnosis with any chronic/serious health condition. I've dealt with it following both of my AI disease diagnoses. And of course DH and I have dealt with it following his cancer diagnosis. That's not to say that whatever's happening after Covid might not eventually be shown to have some unique underlying mechanism, that it's triggering something besides/in addition to the more typical anxiety/depression triggered by other health issues. But I suspect it's going to be fairly difficult to prove, given that mental health challenges are so very common after just about any serious health diagnosis.

 

The people I know had this sudden baffling (to them) intense depression and anxiety before any diagnosis. And they were part of the “Covid is no big deal “ crowd so they were not worried about having gotten Covid. It was very clearly not an emotional reaction to anything. 

[kbutton]

31 minutes ago, SKL said:

This does remind me of conversations about pre-covid vax injuries.  How many people were absolutely certain that their own child developed problems right after a vax, but those who didn't know the child insisted that it was all a coincidence or imagination or conspiracy theory.  Just a different approach I guess.

With both the mental health and the vaccine injury information, I think it will come out in the population level data. It can be compared the expected/background rate of those kinds of things. That's how they find things like the myocarditis in certain age groups. 

[scholastica]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

FTR I don't think anyone is denying that long covid exists, nor that some cases of covid can cause neurological side effects that may be lasting.  Our skepticism is that the meaning we are giving to "long covid" is too broad, unscientific, and unhelpful.

This does remind me of conversations about pre-covid vax injuries.  How many people were absolutely certain that their own child developed problems right after a vax, but those who didn't know the child insisted that it was all a coincidence or imagination or conspiracy theory.  Just a different approach I guess.

Well, since Covid can affect any organ/system in the body in a long term way, it seems that it is necessarily a broad term. 

[ktgrok]

I can say my parents are now looking to sell their house and move in with my sister as just caring for her own kids daily is too much for her. This after working full time plus extra, running kids to multiple activities, etc all the time. It's astounding. 

[Faith-manor]

50 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I can say my parents are now looking to sell their house and move in with my sister as just caring for her own kids daily is too much for her. This after working full time plus extra, running kids to multiple activities, etc all the time. It's astounding. 

Katie, I am so very sorry. If I lived near you, I would do what I could like cooking a meal every week for them and dropping it off. This is just awful, and I know it breaks your heart. All I can say is I hold out hope for better treatments soon. It is precious that your parents are going to be able to help her and the children. They are very good people!

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Katie, I am so very sorry. If I lived near you, I would do what I could like cooking a meal every week for them and dropping it off. This is just awful, and I know it breaks your heart. All I can say is I hold out hope for better treatments soon. It is precious that your parents are going to be able to help her and the children. They are very good people!

Thank you. I'm going to start doing that myself, dropping off food, now that my kitchen is 90% unpacked. The hard thing is my sister was picky before Covid, and now it is worse as she has weird taste, etc. And one kid has food issues to the point that it goes well beyond picky - she eats about 5 different foods, all of which are delivered via Shipt.  So...that makes it hard. But at least i can drop off food my mom and dad will eat! If I say it is for them, the others can eat it if they want, but won't feel obligated to do so. 

And yes, my parents are good people. My dad freaking loves their house on the island. Giving up his boat, water front home, etc is going to be hard. But he hasn't even flinched. They let me move in when I got divorced, or I never could have made it. Now they are doing this. As my mom said, when you have kids, they come first, forever. 

[Hilltopmom]

18 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Thank you. I'm going to start doing that myself, dropping off food, now that my kitchen is 90% unpacked. The hard thing is my sister was picky before Covid, and now it is worse as she has weird taste, etc. And one kid has food issues to the point that it goes well beyond picky - she eats about 5 different foods, all of which are delivered via Shipt.  So...that makes it hard. But at least i can drop off food my mom and dad will eat! If I say it is for them, the others can eat it if they want, but won't feel obligated to do so. 

And yes, my parents are good people. My dad freaking loves their house on the island. Giving up his boat, water front home, etc is going to be hard. But he hasn't even flinched. They let me move in when I got divorced, or I never could have made it. Now they are doing this. As my mom said, when you have kids, they come first, forever. 

@ktgrok

Katie- is there anything WE could do to help? Send care packages? A go fund me to help pay for 🤷‍♀️ Whatever would help?… a cleaning service, kid activities??

[prairiewindmomma]

Olfactory retraining is a thing....it's been used more often with stroke victims, but many long covid clinics are starting to utilize it as well.  Just wanted to post this as a FYI in case people weren't aware: https://www.bcm.edu/news/relearning-to-smell-after-covid-19

[ktgrok]

44 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

@ktgrok

Katie- is there anything WE could do to help? Send care packages? A go fund me to help pay for 🤷‍♀️ Whatever would help?… a cleaning service, kid activities??

Thank you, but I can't really think of anything. Just having the offer is heartwarming though!

[YaelAldrich]

49 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

@ktgrok

Katie- is there anything WE could do to help? Send care packages? A go fund me to help pay for 🤷‍♀️ Whatever would help?… a cleaning service, kid activities??

I agree wholeheartedly. Please let us know how the Hive can help.