Subtle personality changes of memory loss?

[PeterPan]

So I had a weird conversation with my mother I'm trying to sort out. Does a person who is beginning to have memory problems experience *subtle* personality changes or become more argumentative or petulant? Cry more easily? 

We're talking so subtle that she just seems rational. Like the cat died so she's crying. But she spent years saying she was done with cats (it was her dh's) and now she's sniffing on the phone (this was a week ago the cat died) and talking about how empty the house is. In a weird way. Not in a straightforward I miss the cat kind of way. Kind of a weird way.

And she has gotten argumentative about something, digging in her heels, nonapologetic. And not in a clear way but in sort of a petulant, not thinking through things way. And again, it has this context that looks so rational but is just not how I've thought of my mother.

So either I've had so much HBOT that I see people differently, or I'm seeing subtle changes in my mother. So far the one sibling (of hers, who sees her with some regularity) I've mentioned to doesn't bite. Which means I'm crazy, lol. But my mother is now mid to late 60s and as of two years ago was struggling to remember who had the next turn in Uno. Like becoming agitated and angry because she couldn't keep track of who was next. And she admits she's having memory problems and using strategies (lists, etc.).

And it matters, because what she's arguing about and digging in her heels about is pretty important and it matters how I handle it, kwim? Like not that a decision has to be made but just how I interact with her. If it's a completely clear, rational thought process, then honestly she's not being very nice. If it's being affected by unclear thinking (which I'm starting to wonder) then it needs to be handle less perjoratively and more carefully. And it's so subtle and the not nice part is so edgy. And the not nice part is of the argumentativeness, is getting communicated to other people. So now we have a whole bunch of people assuming she's completely rational and I'm just saying she's NOT. And yet it's so subtle, I can't PROVE it, kwim?

Am I crazy? How in the WORLD do I handle that? Not enough memory loss to coop her up or diagnose but just enough that her brain is getting squirrelly in how she's interpreting things, how she's spinning things. Or I just never realized my mother was like this. Or her tendency was like this and she is losing some of her inhibition that would hold it in check? Not inhibiting crying, not inhibiting arguing? 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by PeterPan

[regentrude]

It is very common for aging people to become stubborn, obstinate, argumentative. ( In German, we have a word for that: Altersstarrsinn). It isn't a treatable pathogy and doesn't need to be related to memory loss.

[Serenade]

25 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Or her tendency was like this and she is losing some of her inhibition that would hold it in check?  

 

I think I'm seeing a lot of this in my mother.  She's 83, though.  

[Laura Corin]

Oddly I'm seeing positive changes in my mother's mood as her memory fails.  She is no longer able to hold onto obsessive worries or resentments.  She's becoming more easy-going.

[Spryte]

23 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Oddly I'm seeing positive changes in my mother's mood as her memory fails.  She is no longer able to hold onto obsessive worries or resentments.  She's becoming more easy-going.

IIRC, our mothers had some similarities. I am experiencing the same with my mine.  It’s a relief.

OP, I think there’s a whole range here. My mother is easier now, but a few years ago, as her memory issues were just ramping up, that wasn’t the case.  Her memory started to go, and every little (and big) quirk was amplified.  She’s got mental health issues, and we needed to get her medicated.  The medication may be what’s actually helping now.

On the cat, though … I’m not sure if that one is unreasonable.  I could see being very sad and feeling the house was empty even after losing a cat that had gotten on her last nerve, and saying she was done with cats.  That part doesn’t strike me as odd.

[klmama]

An older relative clearly had memory issues; she was becoming irritable and was behaving oddly.  Once she finally agreed to be evaluated, she was diagnosed with short-term memory loss.  After the diagnosis, she relaxed and became cheerful again;  she was no longer worried about having dementia.  The family has become careful not to interrupt her, and that helps her not lose her train of thought.  Her memory hasn't actually improved, but she's not distracted by stress over forgetting things.

[J-rap]

Mid-60's is young!  (to me :))  But that doesn't mean she isn't having some aging/brain issues, especially given that she has already admitted to having some memory issues a couple years ago.

My mother was quite a bit older (around 88) when she had a very subtle personality change.  I was the only one who picked up on it at first, and wondered if she had had a very tiny stroke.    Eventually my siblings came around to agreeing that something seemed slightly off, but we were unable to get her to see a doctor (part of that was my dad refusing to force her) for several months.  Then she had a small stroke that was obvious so my dad drove her to the hospital.  During the exam -- after the MRI -- they could see that she had already had a very small stroke previously.  

But the thing about the first tiny stroke was that it had no effect on her physically at all...  Just a very, very slight personality change.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by J-rap

[fairfarmhand]

Does she live alone?

And depression can cause irrational anger and unclear thinking along with foggy headedness. 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Or I just never realized my mother was like this. Or her tendency was like this and she is losing some of her inhibition that would hold it in check? Not inhibiting crying, not inhibiting arguing? 

Inhibition is an EF, and EF is the last thing to mature and one the first things to go even without dementia. There is a family history of EF and ADHD issues, right? After my kids were diagnosed, I could see their issues in my grandmother, lol!!! She was the mom of an 8 year old when I was born, and I've seen her over time. Definitely ADHD.  

Also, quite a few people have told me that their parents had a big change around age 70 +/- a couple of years along the lines of what regentrude said. With that came more reluctance to tackle things they would've had energy to tackle even a year before (certain kinds of home repairs, phone calls to arrange things, etc.). It was especially pronounced in parents who tended to be "take the bull by the horns" types of people. 

[PeterPan]

53 minutes ago, Spryte said:

That part doesn’t strike me as odd.

It was the *crying* that was odd.

53 minutes ago, Spryte said:

OP, I think there’s a whole range here. My mother is easier now, but a few years ago, as her memory issues were just ramping up, that wasn’t the case.  Her memory started to go, and every little (and big) quirk was amplified.  She’s got mental health issues, and we needed to get her medicated.  The medication may be what’s actually helping now.

Ok, that actually makes sense. 

23 minutes ago, J-rap said:

But the thing about the first tiny stroke was that it had no effect on her physically at all...  Just a very, very slight personality change.

Oh that's interesting. I even wondered about something basic like b6. Guess we'll just keep an eye on it. She has drunk a TON of pop over the years. If soft drinks (or aluminum cans) can cause Alzheimers, she's definitely headed for it. 

31 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Does she live alone?

And depression can cause irrational anger and unclear thinking along with foggy headedness. 

Nope, not alone. But I hear you, makes sense. This is just so subtle. If it were blatant, everyone would be like oh yeah and get on board. And she's not doing the sundowner thing. She's just a little more odd, like sitting alone more (when we're there to visit). 

[Pen]

Talk about it with her directly. 
 

Something like this happened with my father some time ago and siblings were talking to each other about him, but not with him. In his case it turned out he was having problems from a medication he was on. And he needed to be part of the conversation.  
 

Find a good time to talk and say what you are concerned about. Be prepared for anger, sadness, denial, because a sense of loss of memory is hard to deal with. But there may be remediable reasons (like a medication or uti or even dehydration causing it) or there may at least be some strategies for dealing with it. And ways not to react or get angry with others thus adding an extra problem onto the memory problem.  

[Spryte]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

Talk about it with her directly. 
 

Something like this happened with my father some time ago and siblings were talking to each other about him, but not with him. In his case it turned out he was having problems from a medication he was on. And he needed to be part of the conversation.  
 

Find a good time to talk and say what you are concerned about. Be prepared for anger, sadness, denial, because a sense of loss of memory is hard to deal with. But there may be remediable reasons (like a medication or uti or even dehydration causing it) or there may at least be some strategies for dealing with it. And ways not to react or get angry with others thus adding an extra problem onto the memory problem.  

I wish someone had said this to our family 10 years ago, about MIL.  She would have been open to the conversation, I think, and we might have had a better plan in place for when things progressed.

[Alicia64]

My mom is 77 and this is what my sister reports to me: everything you said. Definitely petulant. Easy to anger. Argumentative.

I bet your sixth sense is seeing something.

I'm sorry.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

Talk about it with her directly. 

We've already talked about her memory, had that talk about a year ago very lightly. It was only pesky then, with her being rude to her spouse. Now it's actually causing (small) problems and getting weird. I don't think she's following through on things her doc says to her like vitamin D or Bs and I'm not her healthcare POA or person she chose to be saying this stuff. I'm just the person around, unlike the person who is her POA, ie. the one she would want to hear it from. And that person is completely oblivious and living in another state.

Well at least I'm not crazy thinking it. I could try to have a follow up and talk testing/things her doctor said or I could talk with the person she chose as POA. Thing is, that person is bogged down with life issues and not prepared to engage.

I'm sort of in the fine well if you didn't want me to do it then rot with the care of the other person, sigh. 

But that's a good point about whether I'm wanting to *understand* it or to *do* something about it. I think I mainly wanted to understand it because I'm not sure she wants me to be the one to tell her to *do* something about it.

Edited June 4, 2021 by PeterPan

[cintinative]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Or her tendency was like this and she is losing some of her inhibition that would hold it in check? 

 

I have definitely seen this with my mom. It's like she has lost her filter as she gets older. She has said some pretty outrageous things that she never would have said 10 years ago--not untrue things, but things you normally wouldn't say in front of other people.  ETA: she is 80

Edited June 4, 2021 by cintinative

[Junie]

Is she in pain?  Pain issues can very much cause personality issues.

[cintinative]

6 minutes ago, Junie said:

Is she in pain?  Pain issues can very much cause personality issues.

Can you expand on this? Do you mean irritability? depression? Or what else have you seen?

My mom has chronic pain but also has been on narcotics for years so a lot of times we don't know who all the "players" are that are presenting the thing we are seeing.

Edited June 4, 2021 by cintinative

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, Junie said:

Is she in pain?

Not that I know of. But it's a good point. My dad has had a lot of pain with his condition recently, but his affect differences were consistent with what you'd expect with pain. 

[cintinative]

One thing that has been on my radar this year that previously wasn't so much is the heavy influence of sleep on memory issues (and mood). We know my mom doesn't sleep well because she has untreated apnea (long story--she refuses the CPAP) and she has OCD which means she is waking herself for various things--anyway--that lack of sleep can definitely cause dementia type symptoms.

I don't know if maybe she could have some kind of sleep disturbance? Apnea, lack of sleep due to pain, etc.?  That would cause the things you are seeing also.

[Junie]

4 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Can you expand on this? Do you mean irritability? depression? Or what else have you seen?

My mom has chronic pain but also has been on narcotics for years so a lot of times we don't know who all the "players" are that are presenting the thing we are seeing.

Well, it's not so much what I've seen, but what I've experienced personally.  I have chronic pain issues (RA and chronic migraines) and I feel different on days when I am in more pain.  

Pain has turned me from an extrovert into an introvert -- or at least closer to introvert.

Yes to irritability and depression.  Moodiness.  I want to be alone.  Sensitivity to light and sounds.  Argumentative.

I really don't like the person that pain makes me.  I try to fight against the personality changes, but it's hard, especially when I turn people against me because of my behavior.  I sometimes feel like I have a split personality.

What helps?  People leaving me alone on my worst days.  Internet messages (my family uses hangouts) that I don't have to respond to, my favorite foods (this is a big one for me), exercise like walking might be helping, small gifts such as a new book to read.

[bolt.]

Please look into Frontal Temporal (or Frontotemporal) Dementia, which is often called "young onset Alzheimer's" (but it's not). It is usually diagnosed based on personality changes.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frontotemporal-dementia/symptoms-causes/syc-20354737

My father in law has this, and your description sounds a lot like his early stages: Losing first empathy (inability to take another person's perspective or to comprehend why others' experiences should matter), having a lot of arguments and anger, then loss of inhibitions (primarily losing social inhibitions like manners and not being 'weird').

With FTD, memory loss mostly (not always) comes later, after the noticeable personality changes -- so that piece doesn't fit -- but it's worth looking in to as a possibility. (I do hesitate to suggest this though, because it's quite rare, and I don't want to be a fear-monger. FTD is an end of life disease. Ongoing care is helpful, but there is no cure. I don't want you to jump to conclusions and borrow grief by getting too deep into the FTD possibility without knowing that.)

[Faith-manor]

Yes, my mil's short term memory lapses make her confused which is upsetting to her which causes a return to very childlike behavior in terms of emotional response. There are a lot of things her doctor and nurse practitioner have told her will help with that, lifestyle changes, writing things down more, breathing deeply three or four times before responding, having more conversation...ie...get out of the house now that she and all her friends are vaccinated, don't watch so much t.v., work on brain puzzles such as sudoku, word finder, crosswords, etc., and even physical therapy for her knees would have a positive neurological effect well as improve her mobility. She has refused to do any of it over the last five years. So we anticipate this getting worse, and when it is too much to deal with, Dh and I are still working, she will have to go to assisted living or a nursing home. So far we are still managing. However, she has recently had a very serious diagnosis that she is being stubborn about treating so I think we could be in our last year to eighteen months with her.