Do you know people who you think might have had Covid before Covid was a "thing?"

[EKS]

10 hours ago, Katy said:

I just read something yesterday that said people who have had Covid have such a strong immune response to the vaccine that they may not need a second dose.

My other son definitely had covid and is scheduled for the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine next week.  I'll be interested to see if he gets side effects that are more typical of a second dose.  

[Not_a_Number]

32 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Yes! Dh! 
We know several families that had it in Jan or early Feb of 2020. 

Dh and the people we know who had it early, before testing, all got it again this past winter.

Aw, man. That sucks that immunity wears off like that. Was the second infection less severe? May I ask how you are sure they had it before? 

[Katy]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Aw, man. That sucks that immunity wears off like that. Was the second infection less severe? May I ask how you are sure they had it before? 

There are lab confirmed reports that some people had it 3 times. Immunity only lasts 60-90 days in most people, snd you can get reinfected with a new strain in less than 2 weeks, also lab confirmed. We’re learning a lot from the areas that run the genetics of every positive sample. 

[Not_a_Number]

34 minutes ago, Katy said:

There are lab confirmed reports that some people had it 3 times. Immunity only lasts 60-90 days in most people, snd you can get reinfected with a new strain in less than 2 weeks, also lab confirmed. We’re learning a lot from the areas that run the genetics of every positive sample. 

I didn't have the impression it was only 2-3 months in most people. Mind citing? 

[Katy]

21 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I didn't have the impression it was only 2-3 months in most people. Mind citing? 

I don’t have time to google it right now, but I’m certain I heard Dr Fauci say that in more than one interview. I believe the context was why you need a vaccine even if you’ve had Covid. 

I can probably google it for you this afternoon when I have more free time. 

Also there are multiple links in the long Covid thread. 

[Not_a_Number]

10 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don’t have time to google it right now, but I’m certain I heard Dr Fauci say that in more than one interview. I believe the context was why you need a vaccine even if you’ve had Covid. 

I can probably google it for you this afternoon when I have more free time. 

Also there are multiple links in the long Covid thread. 

OK, but I've seen more stuff like this, which suggests immunity lasts 6 months or longer: 

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/12/08/study-of-healthcare-workers-shows-covid-19-immunity-lasts-many-months/#:~:text=Some earlier studies have shown,have remained open questions.

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

OK, but I've seen more stuff like this, which suggests immunity lasts 6 months or longer: 

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/12/08/study-of-healthcare-workers-shows-covid-19-immunity-lasts-many-months/#:~:text=Some earlier studies have shown,have remained open questions.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30764-7/fulltext
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/can-you-get-covid-twice-what-reinfection-cases-really-mean/2021/03/22/3913b526-8ad3-11eb-a33e-da28941cb9ac_story.html

[Katy]

Literally last week we were talking about the news saying you can get infected with new strains immediately. 

[Not_a_Number]

27 minutes ago, Katy said:

Literally last week we were talking about the news saying you can get infected with new strains immediately. 

Those are case studies, as opposed to what I linked. Case studies show what's possible, not what's likely. 

Of course, variants do make a difference. But last I checked, immunity against the old strain was still pretty good for the UK variant, and the South African variant actually didn't spread that easily. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Katy]

7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Those are case studies, as opposed to what I linked. Case studies show what's possible, not what's likely. 

Of course, variants do make a difference. But last I checked, immunity against the old strain was still pretty good for the UK variant, and the South African variant actually didn't spread that easily. 

I didn't look up the studies and I was cooking dinner at the time so I cannot quote who they were citing, but last week on ABC world news tonight they literally had a news segment all about how a previous infection now appears NOT to offer protection against the UK variant.  And I saw similar things on Science Daily and the Washington Post that I skimmed.  I don't know if the thinking has changed or if there has been another mutation, but the takeaway was definitely don't assume you're protected for any length of time at all.

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, Katy said:

I didn't look up the studies and I was cooking dinner at the time so I cannot quote who they were citing, but last week on ABC world news tonight they literally had a news segment all about how a previous infection now appears NOT to offer protection against the UK variant.  And I saw similar things on Science Daily and the Washington Post that I skimmed.  I don't know if the thinking has changed or if there has been another mutation, but the takeaway was definitely don't assume you're protected for any length of time at all.

Hmmm, interesting. Let me check what I can find about that -- that would change my mind about how long immunity lasts. I'd be a bit surprised by that, since the vaccines are protective against the UK variant. 

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Hmmm, interesting. Let me check what I can find about that -- that would change my mind about how long immunity lasts. I'd be a bit surprised by that, since the vaccines are protective against the UK variant. 

I was surprised myself, but DH and I had a whole conversation about additional risk to our youngest and not relaxing much even though we really want to.  I'm so tired of pandemic.

[Not_a_Number]

Well, it's apparently protective in hamsters 😂.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210312/Natural-virus-induced-immunity-protective-against-UK-and-South-African-SARS-CoV-2-variants-in-hamster-study.aspx

I gotta go do the cake for DD5's birthday, but I'll look more. 

[Not_a_Number]

11 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

How on earth is anyone supposed to figure out what information is important and correct if they all keep contradicting themselves.

First of all, you don't use ABC news as a source 😉 . 

[ScoutTN]

6 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Aw, man. That sucks that immunity wears off like that. Was the second infection less severe? May I ask how you are sure they had it before? 

Symptoms exactly the same. Exactly. Second time they were tested, of course. No way to be 100% sure bc no testing was available in Jan 2020. 
 

Dh said his was worse the second time. Thankfully not serious. First time like a cold. Second time more like the flu.

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

First of all, you don't use ABC news as a source 😉 . 

Amen!!

Nor Fox. Both sides are bad.

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Amen!!

Nor Fox. Both sides are bad.

Honestly, I don't use any primarily TV news as sources. I'll use NYT or Washington Post if they bother to link to actual studies or people I think of as reliable. But that's not me using them as sources -- that's me using them as convenient compilations of sources. And I'll rate their sources myself --- like, nothing against Anthony Fauci, but he hasn't been all that reliable this pandemic, and he's 80, and he's not actually publishing these papers himself. So, to me, his evidence isn't all that reliable unless he can point to other sources. (He's certainly more reliable than someone's crazy uncle on FB, lol! But he's not what I consider to be a reasonable primary source.) 

ETA: The Atlantic has had some really excellent articles about the pandemic, by the way. Much better than the standard sources. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[ScoutTN]

5 hours ago, Katy said:

There are lab confirmed reports that some people had it 3 times. Immunity only lasts 60-90 days in most people, snd you can get reinfected with a new strain in less than 2 weeks, also lab confirmed. We’re learning a lot from the areas that run the genetics of every positive sample. 

We have 11 friends in the study at our local teaching hospital who got it in March 2020 and still had antibodies a year later, just before their first vax shot! Ages ranging from late 30’s to mid 70’s.

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Honestly, I don't use any primarily TV news as sources. I'll use NYT or Washington Post if they bother to link to actual studies or people I think of as reliable. But that's not me using them as sources -- that's me using them as convenient compilations of sources. And I'll rate their sources myself --- like, nothing against Anthony Fauci, but he hasn't been all that reliable this pandemic, and he's 80, and he's not actually publishing these papers himself. So, to me, his evidence isn't all that reliable unless he can point to other sources. (He's certainly more reliable than someone's crazy uncle on FB, lol! But he's not what I consider to be a reasonable primary source.) 

ETA: The Atlantic has had some really excellent articles about the pandemic, by the way. Much better than the standard sources. 

But John Q public wont do that, nor do many know they need to do that. This board is an anomaly.  How do real normal people do it? 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

But John Q public wont do that, nor do many know they need to do that. This board is an anomaly.  How do real normal people do it? 

I guess I believe people can learn 🙂 

[TexasProud]

9 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I guess I believe people can learn 🙂 

Yes they can, but like the businesses we visited.  These people work their tails off.  And not 8-5.  The help customers, install plumbing, etc.  They come home from work exhausted  and  watch Netflix.  Go to bed.  They have no motivation to be searching for these sources, nor have any idea they need them .    I would imagine low income people are working 2 or more jobs.   They need to survive and hopefully. not get shot.  If they have internet in their homes, which is a huge if, it is slow and they don’t have time to be on it.  

[Not_a_Number]

19 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yes they can, but like the businesses we visited.  These people work their tails off.  And not 8-5.  The help customers, install plumbing, etc.  They come home from work exhausted  and  watch Netflix.  Go to bed.  They have no motivation to be searching for these sources, nor have any idea they need them .    I would imagine low income people are working 2 or more jobs.   They need to survive and hopefully. not get shot.  If they have internet in their homes, which is a huge if, it is slow and they don’t have time to be on it.  

Then perhaps they should get a reliable newspaper or magazine delivered?

[TexasProud]

11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Then perhaps they should get a reliable newspaper or magazine delivered?

They think they are or if low income, cannot afford it.   I just don't see how you think these people are going to magically understand the need to do what you think they should do. They won't. They don't. 

[SKL]

If my kids got really sick, the last thing I would think of would be Covid, because kids don't usually get very sick with Covid.  The flu is more serious and more deadly for kids.  So knowing "the whole family" got "really sick" IMO is an indication it was NOT Covid.

[Not_a_Number]

19 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

They think they are or if low income, cannot afford it.   I just don't see how you think these people are going to magically understand the need to do what you think they should do. They won't. They don't. 

They can’t afford a newspaper subscription? Really?

[Not_a_Number]

10 minutes ago, SKL said:

If my kids got really sick, the last thing I would think of would be Covid, because kids don't usually get very sick with Covid.  The flu is more serious and more deadly for kids.  So knowing "the whole family" got "really sick" IMO is an indication it was NOT Covid.

Hmmm. You have a point there. Depends on the age, though — teens can get quite sick. But agreed about little kids.

[TexasProud]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

They can’t afford a newspaper subscription? Really?

Do you really think the majority of the world lives like most of the board is able to???  My husband was helping several families who live in trailers tgat were falling apart.  No they cannot.   

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

Do you really think the majority of the world lives like most of the board is able to???  My husband was helping several families who live in trailers tgat were falling apart.  No they cannot.   

I mean, I see that when people have neither time, money, or education, it’s hard to get reliable information. But that’s just a hard problem 😞 .

[Ali in OR]

We'll never really know since there was little to no testing available in the US for months. But one thing I've noticed for years with CDC flu stats is that even in the midst of flu season and where there is a high incidence of flu, most sick people who get tested for flu come out negative. Like a bad year might have 32% of sick people tested positive for one of the 4 strains they test for; that means 68% of people are sick with something else. There are a lot of viruses out there that can make you sick particularly in winter. So even with our miserable lack of Covid testing in early 2020, I would still surmise that most people in the US who got sick in Dec 2019-Feb 2020 were sick with some other virus, just statistically speaking.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Ali in OR

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

There are a lot of viruses out there that can make you sick particularly in winter. So even with our miserable lack of Covid testing in early 2020, I would still surmise that most people in the US who got sick in Dec 2019-Feb 2020 were sick with some other virus, just statistically speaking.

That's certainly my guess. 

Now, if you were in NYC in February, and you lost your sense of taste and smell without being congested... then yes, probably COVID 😛 . But most other people, probably not. 

[YaelAldrich]

I believe three of my four children got COVID-19 in February 2020 after my husband came home from a trip to Japan. Our best friends there are the Chief Rabbi and his wife. They coordinated the care of the Israeli and Jewish pants on the Crown Princess cruise ship that was quarantined in Yokohama Bay. They brought food and supplies to those people as well as taking in the people who had "recovered". My husband spent his free time and ate with them. There were dry coughs among those people. My husband never had any symptoms but my youngest two (at that time 13 and 10) has low grade fevers and dry coughs for over a week (very unusual for them). I begged the doctor to test them but they said only people who traveled to China could get tested. An antibody test done in September was negative.

 

When my second son actually got COVID-19 in December from my oldest son's friend who was staying with us part time (lesson learned you can trust the kids but you can't trust his @#$&* father!), my oldest STAYED in the same room with him the entire incubation period. No mask, no protection. He said he wanted to get bring sick so he could get it over with. He never got sick and we tested him (no joke) NINE times over the two week period.  During one of the drives to the testing site, he said he also came down with COVID-19 symptoms after his father came home from the Japan trip.

The son who got COVID-19 in December was in school 13 hours a day until lockdown and when he wasn't in school he holed up in his room away from his father. I believe he didn't get it in February so he was the only one able to get it in December (the rest of us masked during his illness full time in the house).

Those older boys are getting the Pfizer vaccine today. We'll see what side effects they get...

[Random]

I have some anecdotes to share:

These people live in a tourist area with millions of domestic and international tourists in a normal year and close-ish to a tech-city with a lot of international travel for work.  In December 2019, there were many sick people as is typical in Decembers.

A few interesting data points:

A doc for a friend thought she had in in Feb 2020.  He did a phone consult with the friend almost daily while she convalesced at home 4 weeks.  She didn't have a +test.  Covid wasn't officially in her area and she really didn't have any known contact with anyone who had covid, but doc was 99% sure she had it.  She is still struggling with what her doc thinks is long covid.

One 17 yr old brought home a sickness to her family in December that was pretty rough (that is not unusual by itself).  The entire family got sick (5 kids at home, all kids sick, some worse than others).  The mom (autoimmune disorder) was the worst off, nearly dying.  No covid test.  Mom donated blood a few months later and had antibodies.  I know that doesn't prove anything, but it's interesting.

[Halftime Hope]

On 4/17/2021 at 6:39 AM, Katy said:

There was a nasal spray, homeopathic, I think maybe Zicam? That caused permanent loss of smell in some people. I remember being incredulous that the FDA didn’t ban all homeopathy even before that news came out. 

I seem to remember that it was zinc gluconate sprayed or swabbed directly onto nasal passage that was implicated, not that it was homeopathic.  

[Halftime Hope]

I was in Brooklyn for a week in early (7 - 14) Dec 2019, spending considerable amounts of indoor time with people from all over the world: Americans from all over the nations, and lots of women from China, Turkey, Russia, Eastern European nations, Kazakhstan, and a few from Latin America.  At one point 300 of us spent 4 hours together at a big party, and then the next night there were 17, 000 of us at Barclays for a concert.  I've stayed in touch with quite a few of the people who were at that party, and we've done several check-ins throughout the past 15 months.  It's really amazing that none of us got sick or even suspected we got sick with COVID in the weeks after the concert.  I suspect we were just a bit too early for even that influx of people to have had much exposure, and I'm grateful, because hundreds of us stood shoulder to shoulder for about four hours during the concert, in general admission. 

Knowing how close a call that was, it'll be awhile before I do that again. Sigh. 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Halftime Hope

[LucyStoner]

One of my best friends had what she assumed was a bad flu, but she lost her sense of smell, in late January of 2020.  We live in the area of the country with the first reported US Covid deaths and the first US school district to close.

We were all sick in February 2020 but we didn’t have any symptoms that are more specific to Covid.  My sons were less ill than we were, which is typical for my older son (we all get sick, he coughs twice and it’s over for him) but not for my younger son who usually gets sicker than the rest of us.  My older son was sicker than he normally is though.  

Edited April 19, 2021 by LucyStoner

[easypeasy]

We sure thought dh must have had it back in January, 2020 (iirc... it's been a while, lol). Symptoms were pretty classic Covid-that-doesn't-need-a-hospital-but-still-sucks-a-LOT.

He later donated blood (in May, I think?) and there were no antibodies, so.... we figured he didn't have it after all.

But, when he got his vaccinations, he was hit a LOT harder than any of the rest of us. Like, down for the count, decently high fever, muscle aches, exhaustion, etc.

So, it's got me wondering again because I've heard those who've had it before might have a stronger reaction to the vaccination. A girl he works out with several times a week also had the same reaction to her set of vaccinations and they were both sick around the same time back in January, so... hmm...

But, if he DID have it, the rest of us apparently never caught it and we certainly weren't taking precautions back in January of 2020!

How I wish we could all know for sure!

[stripe]

Yes, I know someone who was very ill in Dec 2019. Very bad cough. Said it was he worst he’d ever been sick. Doctor’s office was dismissive of the cough, as they have always been in my experience. He got better with home treatment and lots of rest.