Ginevra Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 So, I’m reading (listening to) a novel. I’m sorry to say, it is not very good, but I plan to bear it out because I know the author IRL. In a part of the book I just finished, a character who is the “jilted wife” impulsively gives her son’s behind a swat because he (it’s so cliche, but...) ran into the street and was almost hit by a truck. A bystander who witnessed the butt-smack calls over a police officer and the woman is charged with child abuse, brought to the police station, the whole family interviewed by CPS, and the STBX-husband has her barred from seeing the children at all. (He is an attorney, which is the only sliver making that more likely an outcome.) What I am wondering is, is this an at all plausible plot point anywhere in the US right now? I’m just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Not anywhere near me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) Sadly, I know someone who was essentially lost custody of her children because she failed to get her own legal counsel, pled guilty on the abuse charges because she naively believed she could win her husband back - said husband lied to her about this and convinced her that pleading guilty would make it all go away, said husband convinced kids to lie to CPS and the police (one of the children has admitted on multiple occasions to my sister who chaperones monitored visits that they lied because of fear of the the dad). It sounds like the craziest story, but the state of WA apparently from what my sister says is set up so that it is favors the spouse who files charges first. This woman was so naive in retaining counsel and believing her husband's lies and failed to protect her interests. She completely ignored my sister and her other friends who told her she needed a lawyer and to stop believing whatever her husband was telling her. Edited March 9, 2021 by calbear 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 The police/CPS interview the whole family and become involved part would not happen in my county. Anything can happen in a custody dispute. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livetoread Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Child custody is a weird thing, so I believe any weird story about that part of it, but I can't imagine any police officer arresting someone for swatting their kid, or any prosecutor filing charges. It isn't even illegal anywhere in the US, is it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, livetoread said: Child custody is a weird thing, so I believe any weird story about that part of it, but I can't imagine any police officer arresting someone for swatting their kid, or any prosecutor filing charges. It isn't even illegal anywhere in the US, is it? That’s what I was thinking, though clearly some parts of the country would cause people to look askance on a butt-swat than others - spanks are not really good juju around here, for instance, but I cannot imagine the LEO who would be persuaded to book a mom for a brief butt-swat of that type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet2ndchance Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) Yes, this kind of thing can and does happen. The STBX doesn't even have to be a lawyer, just willing and financially able to hire an unscrupulous, bulldog lawyer. CPS doesn't even have to be involved for a custody dispute to go sideways. 23 minutes ago, livetoread said: It isn't even illegal anywhere in the US, is it? All it takes is the wrong place, the wrong person, at the wrong time and suddenly what was a benign incident becomes a trumped-up charge. The charge may or may not stick but it can and does happen and CPS is usually required to at least make a visit with the family in allegations of abuse situations. My parents had CPS called on them when I was little because a neighbor claimed that we (my siblings and I) were not allowed to play with the neighborhood children. We lived far enough north at the time that the sun didn't go down in summer until after 10pm. We were the only children on the block that had to come in at 7pm for bath and bedtime. Yup, CPS made a home visit and interviewed our entire family over good sleep hygiene practices. Is making your kids go to bed by 8pm, even in the summer, illegal? Nope, not that I'm aware of but like I said all it takes is the wrong person, at the wrong place, at the wrong time... Edited March 10, 2021 by sweet2ndchance 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Well technically in Delaware the way the law is written spanking a child is illegal. So, under the right circumstances I suppose it could be possible there. But no one has been convicted of child abuse for a spanking and I haven't heard of even an arrest for that since the law changed a few years back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Once CPS is involved...There was a haunting article in the New Yorker a while ago about a single mom losing custody (for more than a swat, but stay with me)...she was trying to get child back. Doing all the right things and she just could not win. In the end, child was adopted by another family. I recall one CPS report commented that she had yogurt in the fridge...I guess that wasn’t a proper meal? It is for me and mine so I totally freaked out when I read that. 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 28 minutes ago, livetoread said: Child custody is a weird thing, so I believe any weird story about that part of it, but I can't imagine any police officer arresting someone for swatting their kid, or any prosecutor filing charges. It isn't even illegal anywhere in the US, is it? In Delaware the way the law is written it is illegal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 No, to the op. However — I knew someone who got reported by a doctor (or someone at a hospital) and paid $4,000 to a lawyer while being investigated. Her daughter had a feeding tube and she got a lot of suspicion over it. It was bizarre to me! Her daughter had an identified genetic disorder consistent — I don’t know why people were suspicious. I mean — I do — she was very underweight and small for her age. But — her mom was not doing anything bad to her. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) deleted personal experience. Definitely possible, but unlikely IMO unless you are disadvantaged in multiple ways. Edited March 10, 2021 by Katy 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Re: The yogurt in the fridge new yorker story - I remember that one. It was so clear that child services had just taken against her for some reason (probably racism, honestly) and she was never going to be allowed to fix things. She'd actually done something wrong - leaving her three year old home alone while she was at work! - but afterwards, it was so much nonsense. She got dinged for having his room "look presented instead of lived in" - well, yes, because he didn't live there! She got dinged for speaking her home language to her son instead of English (!?). She got dinged for sitting on the balcony with her son and the social worker, going inside briefly to get water for the social worker, and not explicitly asking the social worker to keep her son from going over the wall of the balcony. At a certain point, it seemed to me that if social services had anything legitimate to say, they would never have wasted their time with this garbage. But... she was an immigrant alone in a foreign country. This is not the sort of thing likely to happen to everybody. CPS is made up of people, and people are as biased there as anywhere else. Anyway, with that said, once a report is filed they have to open a case and investigate. 3 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 It sounds like the beginning of a political propaganda story to me written by someone who fears "political correctness." 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 27 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said: It sounds like the beginning of a political propaganda story to me written by someone who fears "political correctness." That’s very interesting to me that you say that, because I had a feeling the purpose of this scene *IS* to make a political point. Because, while it has been a while since I’ve been in a fierce debate about whether spanking should or should not be permissible, literally the one scenario I must have heard nine million times was, “Well what about when a kid runs into the street...” In my original OP, I typed out that thought but then deleted it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Quill said: That’s very interesting to me that you say that, because I had a feeling the purpose of this scene *IS* to make a political point. Because, while it has been a while since I’ve been in a fierce debate about whether spanking should or should not be permissible, literally the one scenario I must have heard nine million times was, “Well what about when a kid runs into the street...” I have to say, I don't know that I'd do a butt swat if my kid ran into the street, because the whole experience would be so shocking and scary without that! That is NOT when I might be tempted to spank, lol. (I don't spank. But just thinking about when I'd feel even a bit tempted to...) Edited March 10, 2021 by Not_a_Number Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Quill said: So, I’m reading (listening to) a novel. I’m sorry to say, it is not very good, but I plan to bear it out because I know the author IRL. In a part of the book I just finished, a character who is the “jilted wife” impulsively gives her son’s behind a swat because he (it’s so cliche, but...) ran into the street and was almost hit by a truck. A bystander who witnessed the butt-smack calls over a police officer and the woman is charged with child abuse, brought to the police station, the whole family interviewed by CPS, and the STBX-husband has her barred from seeing the children at all. (He is an attorney, which is the only sliver making that more likely an outcome.) What I am wondering is, is this an at all plausible plot point anywhere in the US right now? I’m just curious. I might not buy into the police side of it. CPS? Well, they’re required to investigate every report and there’s a witness who might describe the event in harsher terms. And an ex? Not far fetched to get custody during the investigation. Not the same scenario, but I’m watching a friend go through family stuff that I would never in a million years expect to see unfold the way it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Just now, Not_a_Number said: I have to say, I don't know that I'd do a butt swat if my kid ran into the street, because the whole experience would be so shocking and scary without that! That is NOT when I might be tempted to spank, lol. (I don't spank. But just thinking about when I'd feel even a bit tempted to...) I’m with you; it never did seem like a logical reason to spank - “Thank God you weren’t killed! Now, let me inflict some pain upon you...” Right?! Personally my tempt-me-to-spank moments were when they were being deliberate a$$holes. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Quill said: Personally my tempt-me-to-spank moments were when they were being deliberate a$$holes. Yup. The one time I spanked my oldest was when they were just barely four and had been being obnoxious all day and I told them to knock off pinching their sister when they thought I wasn't looking, and they looked right in my eyes and said, "You're not the boss of me. You can't make me do anything. I'll do it if I want to." I have absolutely no excuse, and it was like a single swat on the butt, but it really had been a whole day like that. ETA: That said, I've always heard the spanking for running in the street example applied to children who were too young to comprehend the danger or respond to verbal corrections, like the under 2 set. Which in my mind, was a prime example of an age group where the correct response was not spanking but greater adult control to prevent the possibility. Edited March 10, 2021 by Terabith 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 A butt slap is not illegal if done to your own child, but I believe if a witness makes a report, then CPS has to investigate. I've seen people being investigated for random things their kids said at summer camp (not even about being hit, but hearing the parents yell at each other). And unfortunately, biases come into play if, for example, the mom is too poor or too busy to have a middle-class-looking home. Once that kind of thing happens, I could see it being manipulated in a divorce case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Quill said: Personally my tempt-me-to-spank moments were when they were being deliberate a$$holes. Hahahaha. Yes, that is precisely what I was thinking. You might say you read my mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Terabith said: ETA: That said, I've always heard the spanking for running in the street example applied to children who were too young to comprehend the danger or respond to verbal corrections, like the under 2 set. Which in my mind, was a prime example of an age group where the correct response was not spanking but greater adult control to prevent the possibility. Yeah, that's when I heard it as well, but I just figure they aren't going to respond to a spank more than to being yanked out of the way of a car, which would already be shocking and scary. I guess if they ran into the street and there was no car, you might want to make it more unpleasant for them so they aren't tempted to do it again... hmmm, yes, I see that one, although I still wouldn't feel nearly as tempted as in the "you're being a little brat" situation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, happysmileylady said: For those who say it's not plausible, I would like to point out that the OP doesn't mention things like being convicted of child abuse or the mother having her kids "taken away." The OP is more describing an investigation and a child custody case where the mother isn't allowed to see the kids. In a custody case, a parent doesn't have to be convicted of anything OR even have a custody decision to have lost all or most of his/her access to the kids. This is exactly what happened to my sister's friend. I should probably have added she is an immigrant who came to the US for college. Edited March 10, 2021 by calbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 6 hours ago, Not_a_Number said: Yeah, that's when I heard it as well, but I just figure they aren't going to respond to a spank more than to being yanked out of the way of a car, which would already be shocking and scary. I guess if they ran into the street and there was no car, you might want to make it more unpleasant for them so they aren't tempted to do it again... hmmm, yes, I see that one, although I still wouldn't feel nearly as tempted as in the "you're being a little brat" situation. It's when teaching them NOT to dart into the street in the first place - preferably when there are no cars in the road. Because realistically, not everyone will always be right there to grab them if that happens. In my experience, except for a particularly hardheaded kid, usually one spank, one time is enough. I've personally witnessed a mom beating her kid's butt after the kid walked in front of a moving truck. She was so panicked, that was her automatic response. Possibly the instinct had the effect of keeping an impulsive kid alive to adulthood - we don't know. Even other mammals spank their kids (or some equivalent), so it probably has some evolutionary value if we don't try to get to cerebral about it. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 3 hours ago, SKL said: I've personally witnessed a mom beating her kid's butt after the kid walked in front of a moving truck. She was so panicked, that was her automatic response. Possibly the instinct had the effect of keeping an impulsive kid alive to adulthood - we don't know. Even other mammals spank their kids (or some equivalent), so it probably has some evolutionary value if we don't try to get to cerebral about it. 🙂 I have no desire to follow other mammals’ parenting styles. A lot of our “civilized behavior” is the result of culture combatting our impulses. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I vote highly, highly unlikely, but not impossible, just because the child custody and family and divorce court systems are such a hot mess where justice is often denied. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Gen Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 16 hours ago, Not_a_Number said: 16 hours ago, Quill said: I have to say, I don't know that I'd do a butt swat if my kid ran into the street, because the whole experience would be so shocking and scary without that! That is NOT when I might be tempted to spank, lol. (I don't spank. But just thinking about when I'd feel even a bit tempted to...) I agree! My autistic daughter got so excited that she ran in front of cars a couple of times. Never did I feel like hitting her because of it. One Christmas Day, she ran in front of a car in the movie theater parking lot. My sister grabbed her in time, then got on her knees and looked into her eyes and told her how much we could never stand to lose her because she is so amazing and absolutely irreplaceable. That had a huge impact on her, and I could see her trying to stop and think more. But I also agree that for spankers, running in front of a truck is the exact situation used to illustrate why spanking is needed and justified. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I wouldn't think so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.