What is responsible?

[ktgrok]

And just..hugs. this whole thing sucks. 

My youngest has PANDAS and anxiety from that that makes him want to stay home, so it's going to be rough getting him out of the house when this is over. We've started trying to find nature walks or something on days it isn't miserably hot, just to get him out. Mental health stuff just complicates it all. 

[Katy]

4 hours ago, sassenach said:

Really? I think those are very different from each other. One is peeing in a bathtub, the other is peeing in the ocean. Get enough people in that bathtub and it's gonna be gross, but in the ocean I'm not even worried.

 

Except think about the way a group of hungry teen boys eat - they're all going to be lunging for slices simultaneously, and likely at least two of them will have some sort of physical horseplay.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

I have no concerns about non covid safety.  They’ve been friends for five years.  Age gap is way smaller than grade gap if that makes sense.  Driving isn’t an issue; teens can’t transport other teens in our state.  

 

That’s good then.  No driving other teens is huge both for its own safety and not being in proximity in closed vehicle.

For mental health I’d say yes to the social, but try to think how it can be as safe as it can be.

if they are gaming indoors with masks on maybe they could at least eat outside 

also maybe would be good to think about developing a friend who won’t be graduating at end of this year... 

[Terabith]

4 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

That’s good then.  No driving other teens is huge both for its own safety and not being in proximity in closed vehicle.

For mental health I’d say yes to the social, but try to think how it can be as safe as it can be.

if they are gaming indoors with masks on maybe they could at least eat outside 

also maybe would be good to think about developing a friend who won’t be graduating at end of this year... 

Yeah, she had made a couple friends who were in the same grade as she was back when school was in person.  I was hoping that would keep up, and they text and talk over Facetime some, but it's not a long term friendship like it's been with these guys since elementary school. I had worries about friendship and all the guys graduating before this happened.  We were trying to work on that, but....covid.  

 

[SKL]

It may be a matter of choosing between the friends and the in-laws.  Maybe you could switch off, friends one month and in-laws the next month after isolating for a few weeks.

My kids and I got together with my sisters and nieces on Sunday.  My sister found a very nice bike trail and we all biked about 14 miles, then had a cookout.  It was 100% outdoors except for one brief trip to the toilet for each.  If you could plan something like that, it would be fairly safe and fun.  Another option might be swimming in an outdoor pool.

I think the kids need to have social time.  Your kids have sacrificed a lot already.  I would try to make it work if I were you.  I trust your in-laws would understand.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

It may be a matter of choosing between the friends and the in-laws.  Maybe you could switch off, friends one month and in-laws the next month after isolating for a few weeks.

My kids and I got together with my sisters and nieces on Sunday.  My sister found a very nice bike trail and we all biked about 14 miles, then had a cookout.  It was 100% outdoors except for one brief trip to the toilet for each.  If you could plan something like that, it would be fairly safe and fun.  Another option might be swimming in an outdoor pool.

I think the kids need to have social time.  Your kids have sacrificed a lot already.  I would try to make it work if I were you.  I trust your in-laws would understand.

Or even meeting with friends every two weeks and in laws every 2 weeks? 

 

[JustEm]

4 hours ago, kand said:

I would work to find a way, like Curious’ suggestion of providing the firepit. When there are severe mental health concerns, such that you are legitimately concerned the alternative would be inpatient, the decision making shifts a bit (though I would wonder if meeting with friends in person once every week or two would be likely to make a difference if that’s the case. Is she doing regular therapy with a therapist right now?) I do think your situation needs to be differentiated from a more general “my kid is down about not seeing friends” kind of thing. Lots and lots (maybe most?) kids feel the latter and this isn’t happy for anyone, but I think people should recognize that isn’t the same as someone having serious mental health struggles where you are afraid for their safety. Otherwise everyone will think it’s fine to do risky thinks  because their kids mental health, but in most cases, those people aren’t worried about hospitalizing their kid, or even needing to get them on medication. 

 

I do not agree that one's mental health has to be on the brink of needing inpatient care in order to take risks.  I find it much more important to step in far before that point if you know someone has the potential to getting there, even if they never have been.  So, for example.  I know that since certain mental health issues run in my family it behooves me to put mental health at the top of my risk assessment list for every single family member even if they have never exhibited any mental health crisis.  I have seen with my own eyes and lived with the fall out of how quickly one's mental health can deteriorate.  I am not willing to dismiss my kids struggling with not seeing friends as something not serious because they aren't already suffering from extreme mental health issues.  My goal is to not risk getting near that point.  

If I were the OP I would certainly attempt to have the group of kids meet in the safest manner but if they weren't able or willing to comply I would still allow the hang out.  But that is just me.

[SKL]

9 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Or even meeting with friends every two weeks and in laws every 2 weeks? 

 

I would prefer to have at least a few weeks' gap without outside germs before getting close to older people.  But that could be done safely with some added precautions, such as older folks on the porch, kids in the yard.  Or if the in-laws don't have any health risks to speak of.

[katilac]

6 hours ago, Katy said:

I'm really not sure that a fire pit outside will be safer than gaming inside.  You know there will be s'mores and sodas and probably pizza too, so they won't be masked.

I think I'd allow it anyway, given the circumstances.

I would personally take unmasked outside (still encouraging distance) than masked inside. I just have more confidence in it. But  I would simply offer A+ snacks, individually packaged, rather than a portable fire pit. One, it suits my laziness, and two, I wouldn't want to encourage gathering quite that closely even if it's outside. Plus I wouldn't want to test their common sense with actual fire.

If there is some fun group item they're wanting for the game or just for fun, I wouldn't be above bribing them (4 successful times of meeting outside and staying distanced, and I will buy X). I would do it for my dd's sake, because I have experienced those kids who think they will perish if they stay outside for longer than ten minutes on their native planet. 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

 

Except think about the way a group of hungry teen boys eat - they're all going to be lunging for slices simultaneously, and likely at least two of them will have some sort of physical horseplay.

 

For years, I have noticed that people always post that if teen boys get together, there will always be physical horseplay and they will all be lunging for food, but that was never my experience with my ds and his friends. They were (and still are, except they aren’t quite teens any more!) very polite about food, and they were never into the horseplay stuff, either.  I keep wondering if they were an anomaly!  

[katilac]

23 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

For years, I have noticed that people always post that if teen boys get together, there will always be physical horseplay and they will all be lunging for food, but that was never my experience with my ds and his friends. They were (and still are, except they aren’t quite teens any more!) very polite about food, and they were never into the horseplay stuff, either.  I keep wondering if they were an anomaly!  

I hosted a monthly teen social event for years and years. There was definitely a certain amount of physical horseplay, like picking each other up or piling four people into an armchair, but it was pretty evenly divided between boys and girls. No lunging for food, lol. 

[Katy]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

For years, I have noticed that people always post that if teen boys get together, there will always be physical horseplay and they will all be lunging for food, but that was never my experience with my ds and his friends. They were (and still are, except they aren’t quite teens any more!) very polite about food, and they were never into the horseplay stuff, either.  I keep wondering if they were an anomaly!  

 

It probably is group culture.  I never thought about it before, but all the boys who've been in my house are quite prone to horseplay.  One DD is too.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

 

It probably is group culture.  I never thought about it before, but all the boys who've been in my house are quite prone to horseplay.  One DD is too.

 

That makes sense. Because my ds isn’t into physical stuff, he probably wouldn’t be all that likely to be good friends with kids who are — and those kids would probably not be all that excited about him, either. They might get along well enough, but if they had completely different ideas about what constitutes a good time, they probably wouldn’t be super-close friends even though they are all nice people.

[Garga]

12 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

If the other kids are sweet and geeky, maybe they would be fine with wearing masks if your dd suggested it and mentioned that she has high risk family members. 

 

My son plays DnD with a group of 4  other guys.  They’re all slightly geeky.  At first, they played via zoom, but then they decided to meet in person again. When my son showed up, no one was wearing masks. I was upset when I found out and so was my son.  These guys all juuuuust turned 18 over the summer, so I didn’t feel like it was something that I, as Mommy, should step in and handle.

So, we crafted a carefully worded text for my son to send to his friends directly.  I can’t remember exactly, but it was short and polite and something like this, “Hey guys-my dad has some high risk factors for Covid. Would you consider wearing a mask at DnD? I don’t want to lose my dad.” 

I feel like the “I don’t want to lose my dad” was a little stroke of genius.  I mean...how can someone argue with that?  

I told my son, “Now it’s up to them to decide what to do. If they say they don’t want to wear masks, you be gracious about it, but wear yours.  And now that you’ve sent that, if you show up in your mask, they’ll understand why. And if anyone gives you a hard time you can say, ‘I just don’t want to lose my dad,’ and only the most horrible jerk would say anything against that.”

His friends wrote back.  Two of them said, “Sure we’ll wear masks!” One of those two pointed out, “But we have to take them off while we eat.”  True, but it would be for a short amount of time.  My son wrote back to them, “Thanks!”

One friend wrote back saying he wears masks at work all day and really didn’t want to wear one during DnD (his family is also vehemently vocal against mask wearing.)  My son wrote back, “I don’t want to force you to do anything.”  However, once that guy showed up and saw that everyone else was wearing a mask, he wore one. 

One boy with some sensory issues didn’t respond to the text and he still doesn’t wear a mask when they play. No one gave him a hard time about it either way.

Oh, and my son brought a box of the paper/medical type masks to share with everyone if they wanted one, so that if they forget a mask, they can use one of my son’s.

My son was nervous about asking, but it went really well. They were accommodating and didn’t make a big fuss about it.  

So, if the guys at DnD aren’t masking, you could just ask them if they’d be willing to wear them.  The fact that they mask (except the one), took a weight off my chest.  My son also has a KN95 mask he can wear that provides him with a good amount of protection, and that also made me feel better.  Wearing masks is primarily about helping others, but wearing a mask *does* provide you with a level of protection as well.

 

Now: for a story that didn’t go as well.  My youngest son was invited to play video games with a couple of guys. He’s 15, so there is still a little parental stuff involved.  I asked the mom if she was having them mask and she said she hasn’t even tried to have her own son wear a mask yet (autistic).  I told her about Bryan and asked if she’d ask the kids to try wearing masks.  She flat out said, “No, I’m not going to ask anyone to wear masks.”  Sigh.  It really kind of stung. I have a LOT of friends who believe all this is a big hoax and it’s hard to navigate this stuff.  

But my son was devastated to think that everyone was getting together without him, so I let him go with his mask.  It was meant to be a sleepover, and I drew the line at that.  I don’t think my son can wear a mask effectively while sleeping.   So, I picked him up at midnight and brought him home.  He wore his mask the whole time, but was the only one. 

 

Obviously, my advice would be to ask and see what happens.  And if the boys are 17 and seniors, I’d probably ask them directly.

 

5 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

For years, I have noticed that people always post that if teen boys get together, there will always be physical horseplay and they will all be lunging for food, but that was never my experience with my ds and his friends. They were (and still are, except they aren’t quite teens any more!) very polite about food, and they were never into the horseplay stuff, either.  I keep wondering if they were an anomaly!  

It depends on the culture of a particular group.  My son and his DnD friends do not horseplay like that, ever, at all.  But when there are some gatherings with a larger group and some sports guys show up(football players in particular), there is horsing around and throwing people in pools and stuff like that.  

Edited August 25, 2020 by Garga

[MEmama]

14 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

For years, I have noticed that people always post that if teen boys get together, there will always be physical horseplay and they will all be lunging for food, but that was never my experience with my ds and his friends. They were (and still are, except they aren’t quite teens any more!) very polite about food, and they were never into the horseplay stuff, either.  I keep wondering if they were an anomaly!  

My DS wouldn’t hang out with a horseplay crowd. His friends are mostly fellow introverts; social distancing comes naturally to them. Lol
 

Your DS is in good company. 🙂 

[maize]

15 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

For years, I have noticed that people always post that if teen boys get together, there will always be physical horseplay and they will all be lunging for food, but that was never my experience with my ds and his friends. They were (and still are, except they aren’t quite teens any more!) very polite about food, and they were never into the horseplay stuff, either.  I keep wondering if they were an anomaly!  

My kids don't do horseplay, boys or girls.

Whether friends do or not depends on the friends. 

[Jaybee]

16 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

For years, I have noticed that people always post that if teen boys get together, there will always be physical horseplay and they will all be lunging for food, but that was never my experience with my ds and his friends. They were (and still are, except they aren’t quite teens any more!) very polite about food, and they were never into the horseplay stuff, either.  I keep wondering if they were an anomaly!  

Yeah, one of mine is definitely not into horseplay. Another one, much more so.

[Janeway]

I have been letting my teens go out and so as they do. My younger kids go to the park and everything. They did do gym classes over the summer. The chances of kids both getting and dying from Covid is less than the chances of them dying in a car accident from every day life. No one is going to shut down life over fear of a car accident. So many people think mental health does not matter. It does. Since it is not a broken bone, too many people ignore the important of mental health.

 

[TheReader]

We've been allowing a small group of the kids' friends over weekly-ish. Like you, we are having to balance Covid risk with equally real (and frankly more dangerous to our particular family) mental health risks. So, we've allowed it. 

It's 2 specific other families, who are also being really careful, and this little gathering is basically the only real-life interaction for any/all of the kids involved. They all stay far apart, air flow in the room is such that it sucks the air up/away from the group (where they sit is just above the air return thing, so all the air is being pulled away from them to the air return deal), have separate food/drinks, no contact, and while masks are optional, a few of them wear them at least part of the time. They're all really good at staying safe.

For food, we have done/stuck to individually packaged snacks (and we have a table set up with everything spread out, and only one family group allowed at the table at a time), and then for "food" we've done everything from pizza (one pizza per family group), tacos (meat in a crockpot, color coded serving utensils for everything, one color per family group, one family group at the serving table at a time), individual packaged drinks in the mini fridge up there (one family group at the fridge at a time, and wipes on top to wipe down the handle between times), hand sanitizer on the table where they are for before/after fridge contact, designated "guests only" bathroom and wipes there as well for the door, etc. (and paper towels vs a real towel, etc.). 

So, we minimize risk as much as possible, and accept that it's still not 100%, but all parties have agreed it's a risk worth taking for all kids involved. 

[SKL]

Horseplay - my daughters are very physical with each other and with any friends who like that kind of thing.  The other day, the marching band note asked parents to remind their kids to refrain from horseplay including giving piggyback rides.  (I wondered if this was triggered by my kids, but they say no.)  Also, I see a lot of girls who just automatically hug each other without even thinking about it.  I am not sure, but it might be girls more than boys who tend to get too close.  In any case, it's something to warn both sexes about.

[Catwoman]

3 hours ago, Janeway said:

I have been letting my teens go out and so as they do. My younger kids go to the park and everything. They did do gym classes over the summer. The chances of kids both getting and dying from Covid is less than the chances of them dying in a car accident from every day life. No one is going to shut down life over fear of a car accident. So many people think mental health does not matter. It does. Since it is not a broken bone, too many people ignore the important of mental health.

 

 

Never mind!  —  I just saw your new thread asking about masks, so I’m deleting what I posted here because I think I must have misinterpreted your post.

Sorry, Janeway! 

But you might want to rephrase this post, because it comes across as you sounding like your family doing whatever you want to do is more important than protecting the lives of the general public. Just because you guys may be low risk, the people you come into contact with every day, may not be so lucky. 

Based on your new thread, it sounds like you are wearing masks, so I am assuming you are trying to keep other people safe while still finding ways to interact and socialize with others — but this particular post doesn’t come across that way. I’m not going to lie — my first response to your post was not kind. I felt like you were being selfish and not thinking of others. I don’t want other people to get that same impression if you are actually being safe.

But you really might want to ditch that stupid “car accident” analogy. It doesn’t apply to this situation at all. We are in the middle of an international pandemic and every individual should be doing whatever we can to keep each other safe —- so it’s not like worrying about ourselves as individuals dying in a car accident; it’s more like every single individual should be driving as carefully as we can and we should be abiding by all of the traffic laws so we don’t cause an accident that injures others. 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Catwoman
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