The subjects that never get done...

[MomN]

As I was reflecting back on this past year with a 1st grader, Kindergartener, and 3 year old, I am happy with much of what was accomplished.  My 1st grader showed much improvement in his ability to narrate.  My Kindergartener improved his handwriting and is slowly settling into longer chapter books (still enjoys the pictures though).  Both finished their math curriculums.  SOTW 1 was a huge hit!  We slowly moved from fiction only reading to adding in some interesting non-fiction choices about topics that interest us.  Handwriting, Math, History, Literature, Spelling, Phonics, Grammar, Art ... they all got done with not many regrets.

BUT, I keep going back to what didn't work.  Science and Spanish.  Why am I able to consistently do most subjects 5 days a week but I can't find the time to add in a Science lesson?  I think the answer is two-fold.  1) I didn't really have a curriculum for either Science or Spanish.  I followed the WTM recommendation of using living books about animals, reading them, and then asking and answering questions.  It didn't work.  It didn't get done nearly enough.  Same with Spanish - I had no solid curriculum and was hoping to use Spanish books from the library to slowly increase vocabulary.  So reason 1, I didn't have a solid curriculum for either subject.  I didn't invest the time or money in doing this.

Reason 2 - I find I carry a lot of shame in both subjects.  What I mean is, I am not a science-y girl, don't enjoy learning about it, would much rather read The Island of the Blue Dolphin than learn about magnets and gravity.  I feel bad about this because I don't want my kids to be limited by my non-interest in a subject.  But I also find it exhausting to fake an interest in something I don't like.  Spanish.  My husband is Puerto Rican.  Spanish is his native tongue.  I speak Spanish.  MY KIDS DON'T.  LIKE AT ALL (except colors and numbers and "pan").  This is hard to defend to people.  So now it feels like we are playing catch up and I don't enjoy the lessons because I'm reminded of everything I haven't taught them yet.

After all that ... I guess I am looking for help in how to consistently make time to do the subjects that I don't want to do.  Can anyone relate?  What strategies can I use to make sure that next year is not a repeat of this one in terms of these subjects?  I do have a curriculum set for Science next year - Apologia Astronomy combined with The Good and the Beautiful Astronomy.  I plan on combining these this summer with a heavy emphasis on labs, as my boys like this part most.  I am even going to buy the expensive lab kit so that I have all the materials at my fingertips.  As for Spanish, I'm still on the fence but am learning toward Getting Started with Spanish.  I need something super easy to implement and fun.  Something that can get done in a 15-minute per day time slot.

TY for any insight!

Laura

[Syllieann]

Sometimes the answer is to hand it off to someone else-either irl or videos.  It sounds like you're confident for science next year.  Maybe you want the audio too.  I find that turning on the audio for a history lesson while I prepare lunch (vs me needing to sit still with my hands holding a book) makes it so I enjoy the lesson instead of feel crunched for time.

For spanish, it seems like your husband should be teaching it.  Look around for "one parent, one language".   If there's some reason your dh can't teach it, I think you should look into off-loading this to video of online teaching.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Syllieann

I think if the basics get done with kids that age you are doing well.  When libraries open back up, consider getting a selection of science books for fun reading.  I used to have a basket with stuff like that my kids could read for quiet time and I would switch it out very couple weeks.  Another option is the Memoria Press enrichment guide.  The book has a read aloud book every week, a music piece to listen to, an art piece to discuss, and a science topic.  Usually they are loosely related to each other.  Your two kids are close enough in age that you can combine them in the same guide.  I also would check out videos on different science topics from the library as well when I needed to get something done.  Science doesn’t really need to be a big deal until middle school.  I am an engineer and I prioritize basics like math and reading before science in the early years.  I eventually avoided buying a science program for the early years...most I didn’t like and then I felt guilty about not completing them.

[Lori D.]

Well... I had to do a double take on the ages of your DC, that you felt you "behind" or "failing" in some way... lol... JMO, but if you are able to get your core subjects of basic Math, Reading, Phonics, and Handwriting done with young students (Kinder + 1st), esp. with a young one running amok (lol), then you're golden! And you did not only that, but you also did Spelling, History and Art. BIG bonus points for you!

re: Spanish...
Since your DH is a native speaker, can you either hand it off to him to teach Spanish, or hire (or do a trade of some sort) to bring in a tutor?

Or, maybe your children dislike formalized learning of a subject -- so don't do formal schooling of Spanish, but just switch to speaking all Spanish for awhile, or on alternate days. Watch Sesame Street and other kids' shows in Spanish to pick up the language casually. Play music, kids' songs, and educational songs with Spanish lyrics. Play games with the rule that you can only speak Spanish. Once the stay-in-place limits are lifted, set up play dates with Spanish-speaking friends and go to Spanish-speaking events.

re: Science...
We never used a formal textbook or program until grade 9. We just included living books, watched educational science shows, took field trips to museums and STEM-based places, took nature walks and pointed out things or collected things to bring back and look up/learn about. And tons of kits and exploration activities. However, I always had Science on the schedule, and DSs loved Science, so I always made sure it happened. 

If a program with a schedule is more likely to help you make sure that it gets done, then, great! I never used the Apologia or TG&TB, but if they are parent-intensive, they may not get done either, or only done with reluctance because it requires more of you doing a topic you're not "into". Just remember: at this pre-school/early elementary age, Science is an "icing on top" topic -- just keep it fun, interesting, and do-able. Also, go with Science things that your kids can do a lot of solo, so you don't have to expend a lot of energy "faking interest" -- kits and educational science shows, websites, and computer software/games can be done without you.

You might try increasing your own interest in science by watching some entertaining science shows with the kids -- Magic School Bus has story as well as basic science info. Or maybe you and DH can together watch a NOVA episode or Blue Planet or other high school/adult level science program 2 evenings a month. Sometimes, the more you know about a subject the more interesting it becomes to you.

Also, you might do an online search for a science extension activity to go with some of the literature that you are loving reading aloud -- your interest in the story can carry over into the science that was in the book. For example, you mentioned enjoying reading Island of the Blue Dolphins -- what about adding in some science nonfiction to do with your DC to go with whatever is your read-aloud Lit. book. So, for Island of the Blue Dolphins, learn about islands and how they are formed (earth science); or learn about dolphins and/or wild dogs (life science); or learn about constructing shelters (engineering); or... Understanding more about the underlying reality of the world (science) can really expand your own appreciation of the setting, events, and character actions in the piece of literature!

Other ideas for making sure Science happens:

- Stack Science on one day a week
Restructure your school week a little and do all of your core subjects on Mon/Tues/Thurs/Fri, and Wednedays can be for Science, and other things that are sometimes hard to get to during the week -- educational supplements (games, videos, etc.), art and/or history projects, field trips, etc.

- Alternate Science/History
Schedule each for 2 days/week (so either Mon/Tues for one and Wed/Thurs for the other,, OR, Mon/Wed for one and Tues/Thurs for the other. Fridays can be for catching up anything that didn't get done for either or both, and time for activities or projects.

- Schedule Science FIRST in the day
Then it DOES get done. 😉 

- Rotate/Drop a Subject Once Per Week
That gives you more room during each day's schedule, with one less subject to jam in, yet each subject is only dropped 1x/week and IS being done 4x/week. Example:
Mon = do: Literature, Science, History, LA (Spelling, Grammar, Phonics, Handwriting), Art, Spanish -- drop: Math
Tues = do: Science, History, LA (Spelling, Grammar, Phonics, Handwriting),, Art, Spanish, Math -- drop: Literature
Wed = do: History, LA (Spelling, Grammar, Phonics, Handwriting),, Art, Spanish, Math, Literature -- drop: Science
Thurs = do: LA (Spelling, Grammar, Phonics, Handwriting),, Art, Spanish, Math, Literature, do: Science History,  -- drop: History
 Fri = do: Art, Spanish, Math, Literature, Science, History,  -- drop: LA (Spelling, Grammar, Phonics, Handwriting)

- Outsource
* trade with another homeschooler -- find a homeschooling friend who likes Science, and meet once a week -- she leads a science for all the kids, then you lead an arts/crafts/other exploration for all the kids
* join a homeschool co-op with enrichment classes in science
* join a local homeschool support group on field trips or signing up for individual/mini-series of classes/activities run by the science opportunities in your community.

Mostly, I just encourage you to enjoy the journey! The elementary ages are so fun -- homeschooling does NOT have to be about formal curricula at this age! BEST of luck in finding what works for you and for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Lori D.

[LauraBeth475]

This is Latin for me.  I have no idea...

[Terabith]

I'd totally just have them watch tv in Spanish and call that good.  ETA:  I mean, assuming there's a reason your husband can't speak Spanish with them.  But if they're screaming every time Spanish is spoken, I could see that being an issue.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Terabith

[PeterPan]

Agreed with wondering why your dh isn't speaking spanish with them. You could throw on Muzzy. Or watch Disney movies and switch the language. Immersion is fine with little kids, so just do it.

On the science, you're expecting too much of yourself. Major curricula like BJU only schedule science at this age to be 1 semester. So that's one semester science, one semester social studies OR 2 days each for the whole year. So did you follow your plan and read books a couple days a week? You did fine.

Here's the thing, and I'm just giving you my own hindsight here. When I got to a point and went OH MY GOODNESS I'M FAILING MY KIDS!!! it didn't usually mean I was actually failing my kids. What it USUALLY means is that my kids had a growth spurt. They've grown, and what I did before was appropriate then and isn't now.

And yeah, maybe it's that you need a heavy investment or higher structure or something, who knows? But really, do you think anybody here seriously thinks kids remember their "science lessons"??? They remember what they did. It doesn't matter what you did or in what order or anything else. They will probably remember what they did. They will remember how they felt listening to you read them books and they'll come out thinking they enjoy the topic. That means you did good. But anything beyond that and you may be guilt tripping yourself. It's nice to be building some awesome thorough foundation, but you're just as likely to fast forward four years and realize they remember only select things, mainly what captured their imagination or what they DID.

So, sister, as long as what you are doing for science is FUN, call it good. It can be fun to *you* and not necessarily to them. And I'm not joking about that. You could poll them and ask what they want to learn, poll yourself, and then defer to YOUR interests. You want to learn constellations? Then learn constellations and they will join along and have fun. They're going to enjoy it because YOU enjoy it. So pick something you're going to enjoy, do it, have fun, be at peace. 

6 hours ago, MomN said:

I guess I am looking for help in how to consistently make time to do the subjects that I don't want to do.

Hold it. Why are you using TWO COMPLETE CURRICULA and then saying you don't have time and aren't having fun??? ONE curriculum. Which one is more fun to you? 

I don't know. My dd could sit and listen to massive amounts of language, so she was fine with the Apologia elementary science books. My ds is so different. I'm always needing to trim it down and ask what if we only spent 15 minutes but were *really engaged*.  Those chapters in Apologia can take a long time to read, and maybe they won't even interest your kids. I'd make sure you do before you bother. But if they do, then yeah pick one or the other. Don't be guilt tripping yourself with multiple curricula. It's SO easy to add on some fun hands-on kits. What if you turned that curriculum $$ into a trip to an observatory with a big telescope? They'd never forget that. Or the Curious George constellations book. Or constellation lacing. Or a styrofoam planets kit they can paint. 

[PeterPan]

Here https://www.amazon.com/Find-Constellations-H-Rey/dp/0544763424/ref=sr_1_10?crid=1DWEC7JG4WHZK&dchild=1&keywords=curious+george+constellations&qid=1589508445&s=books&sprefix=curious+%2Cstripbooks%2C163&sr=1-10

https://www.amazon.com/Animals-Stars-Lacing-Cards-Robie/dp/1452137412/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=constellation+lacing&qid=1589508487&s=books&sr=1-1  Oh rats, maybe another vendor has these? Or maybe you could make them yourself? I did notebooking with my dd but I got these cards for my ds. 

https://www.rainbowresource.com/product/011899/Constellations-for-Every-Kid.html?  Activities. Instead of curriculum, more activities.

Edited May 15, 2020 by PeterPan

[2_girls_mommy]

What I did when they were younger was have a set time in the week- Mon. afternoon at 4 was art. Tue/Thurs at 4 was history. Wed- was science. 

Having that time set aside in the week meant that we did something during that time period. Even if I had no set plans going in except that stack of books. I would pick a book, and we'd read it. 

Just committing to the time helped keep me accountable. And if we missed a week for whatever reason we jumped back in the next week. That stack of books was still there. 

[blendergal]

I agree with everyone else who said it’s totally appropriate for a family like yours to focus on the basics. So I would not kick myself even once if science and Spanish took a backseat for a year.

But since you asked, I will share what has worked for us.

When I’ve decided that we really need to make progress in a certain subject, I schedule it early in the day. Last year, it was reading fluency. This year, it’s math. When we plan to do it early, it almost always gets done! And the cumulative effect of almost always working on that subject really adds up as the days go by.

When there’s a subject I’VE been neglecting (and there can be so much shame over this, you’re right!), I resolve to over-prep for it. I did that for science this year. Gathered the gazillion little supplies in a box. Printed out all the lab sheets and put them in that same box. We haven’t gotten to everything I prepped, but we did science a lot more consistently this year.

[PeterPan]

If you want a little fun https://www.rainbowresource.com/product/051780/Constellations-Memory-Game.html?  They have one left in stock. 

When my dd was younger, we often banged out our science in the summer. Even with one dc we didn't get to it consistently during the school year every year. I can't imagine with a 3 yo underfoot. You're just going a lot of different directions there and have a lot of foundation. I needed open and go idiotproof. Even prepping doesn't mean things get done if it takes too much time. Just something simple. Think about how simple you could take this and still be happy. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by PeterPan

[BusyMom5]

It sounds like you had a very productive year!  At those ages,  I just do phonics, handwriting and math.  Everything else is a bonus!  I know my kids, at those ages,  wouldn't be able to sit and listen to history, science and Spanish everyday.  What I would suggest is that over the summer you pick 4 science units and 4 history units to cover next year.  Do 1 unit each month, switching back and forth so that you are only doing 1 at a time.  Maybe you start in August with a unit on the Amazon rainforest.   Delve into it!  Where is it?  What does it feel like?  What does it look like?  What animals live there?  Find some movies to watch, books to read, and maybe even a unit from Teachers Pay Teachers.  After 3-4 weeks, switch over to history, maybe Vikings- read some Norse mythology,  learn about longboats, make shields- keep it fun and light.  If you find a unit is boring for their ages, move on!  Maybe seasons?  

The only Spanish program I'm familiar with for this young is Muzzy- I found one used at a Thrift Store for $5.  Maybe just play favorite cartoons or movies in Spanish.  

[MomN]

Thank you all for the advice and suggestions.  My husband speaking Spanish to the kids hasn't worked out.  Apparently you need to start when you first bring the child home, which we didn't, and now it's just not something that happens too often.  He comes home tired, ready to interact with the kids in a fun way and having to translate every word he says to them isn't fun for him.  I get it.  It's harder than it seems when you have two parents from two different cultures.  So that didn't work.  But I will definitely take the advice of looking for an online Spanish program or videos.  I want to simply build vocabulary.  That's it.

It is refreshing to know that many consider science a bonus.  I had never thought of it that way.  Every time I see the posts on "Next Year Planning," I always see plenty of Science stuff on there so I assumed that everyone else was doing it.  I still do want to try to include Science this coming year but perhaps with a new perspective.

I really like that constellation game, PeterPan, and may just buy that.  We love Curious George too.  I definitely see how Science could easily become a favorite for my boys if I included things like these.  Loved this:

"Here's the thing, and I'm just giving you my own hindsight here. When I got to a point and went OH MY GOODNESS I'M FAILING MY KIDS!!! it didn't usually mean I was actually failing my kids. What it USUALLY means is that my kids had a growth spurt. They've grown, and what I did before was appropriate then and isn't now."

And thank you Lori for the schedule ideas.  I had never thought of being flexible with the schedule in these ways.  

[MomN]

Was just thinking about how my last two posts were about STEM and Science.  On the weekends, I tutor SAT reading and writing.  Last week, I am sitting with a very bright sophomore and we are taking a practice reading test.  This particular passage is Science-related.  I can't remember the exact  theme but I'm sitting there and I can barely get through the passage.  I'm the tutor!  I'm bored and the vocabulary is rough.  Anyway, this girl, who is taking AP Physics as a sophomore, is just cruising her way through this Science-y passage.  And it just got me thinking about why some kids excel in Science and why others don't.

Sidenote: My husband says he is terrible at math.  Well, when you learn about his schooling in Puerto Rico, you soon find out that he was never required to master his math facts.  I am 100% sure that is why he is terrible at math.  Not because of some wiring in his brain or because he didn't try hard enough.  His teachers never required him to master his math facts, and this caught up with him big time.  And over time, he lost confidence and eventually just started telling people he was terrible at math.

Anyways, so I sort of made the connection between this and Science.  Why are some kids able to fly through these Science passages?  Is it because they were exposed to STEM toys and Science books as young children?  Is it because their parents like Science and talked to them about it? I think the reason I was pushing a Science curriculum for 2nd grade was because I wanted to expose my son as much as possible to a subject that I always struggled with.

[El...]

Totally relate. And by the time I figure it out, the kid has grown and things have changed.  I have to remember that our core is solid and that we're falling in a forward direction.  🙂

[8filltheheart]

5 hours ago, MomN said:

Anyways, so I sort of made the connection between this and Science.  Why are some kids able to fly through these Science passages?  Is it because they were exposed to STEM toys and Science books as young children?  Is it because their parents like Science and talked to them about it? I think the reason I was pushing a Science curriculum for 2nd grade was because I wanted to expose my son as much as possible to a subject that I always struggled with.

I wanted to highlight this part of your post bc I have very "sciency" children, but I am definitely not. I have managed to raise a chemE, a physics grad student, a rising college freshman who will majoring in meteorology, a rising 9th grader who wants to major in geology and cartography and be a speleologist (if I had been writing a book, I wouldn't have  been creative enought to make that up!!), and a 10 yr old who has also fallen in love with astronomy (where her older brother started his love for physics.)

All that is to say that my kids never touch(ed) a science textbook until high school level science.  However, they read science books all the time, whole books on whatever subject they are interested in.  (Good thing I had checked out all those caving books from the library before quarantine or I would have had to spend $$ to buy the books she wanted to read!)  When they are your kids' ages, science is just another read aloud.  I sit down and read aloud from a book about whatever interests them. It is maybe a 5-10 min commitment at that age.  When my physics ds was little, he was fascinated by ants.  I think we read 15 books on ants; every juvenile book our library had.  An ant colony is the closest thing to a science experiment this mom has come to science experiments prior to high school labs.  I detest experiments.  🙂 My homeschooling weakness.  I see them as messy, pointless demonstrations that aren't real science "labs." Kids like the wow factor bc it is fun and exciting, but I don't see it as real science (which isn't necessarily fun bc of wow factors)  My kids have fallen in love with science bc it is interesting and compelling. We follow rabbit trails all over the place, exploring ideas that want to understand more about.

Science never has tests, vocabulary sheets, worksheets, or experiments when they are little.  It is reading and discussing.  Starting around 3rd or 4th grade I assign mini-research papers (think paragraphs or little pamphlet type booklets) on science topics for their writing assignments (writing across curriculum).  Science topics are give about every 3 weeks or so (alternated with history topics, fiction writing, or whatever else I think up). 

In terms of foreign language, I am in favor of letting internal motivation be the driving force.  If I had little kids who were resistant, I wouldn't push it at all.  I might be creative and try to come up with a way that made them want to learn (like mommy and daddy having a secret language that they use in front of the kids so the kids can't understand 😉 ) or maybe do a geography study of daddy's family tree and intersperse the study with planting seeds about language.  Instead of making it a "school subject" to learn, I would try to make it something that they personally want to own.  I am also a personal failure at foreign languages, but  I had a dd teach herself to a very high level of French.  She started around 3rd grade.  (And I still know zero French.)  Desire is what got her to that level.  Not curriculum. Not me scheduling X pages.  By the time she graduated from high school she was building puzzles while watching movies in French. 

But, honestly, when my kids are really little, school consists of math, handwriting, phonics, and reading.  That's it.  Everything does not need to be accomplished in a day.  Think of it in terms of watching a construction site.  The moving of dirt and laying the foundation is not splashy.  The finished building is often spectacular.  K2 is moving dirt, pouring the foundation.  It is what leads to them being able to construct their building.  Working on building the building before the ground is ready and the foundation poured just leads to shoddy workmanship that needs repair.  There are a lot of yrs ahead of you for building up.  Right now, all you need to do is the foundation work.  

 

[kiwik]

Get the 2 that can read to watch magic school bus in Spanish with English subtitles.  Science, Spanish and reading practice in one go.

[wendyroo]

6 hours ago, MomN said:

Was just thinking about how my last two posts were about STEM and Science.  On the weekends, I tutor SAT reading and writing.  Last week, I am sitting with a very bright sophomore and we are taking a practice reading test.  This particular passage is Science-related.  I can't remember the exact  theme but I'm sitting there and I can barely get through the passage.  I'm the tutor!  I'm bored and the vocabulary is rough.  Anyway, this girl, who is taking AP Physics as a sophomore, is just cruising her way through this Science-y passage.  And it just got me thinking about why some kids excel in Science and why others don't.

Sidenote: My husband says he is terrible at math.  Well, when you learn about his schooling in Puerto Rico, you soon find out that he was never required to master his math facts.  I am 100% sure that is why he is terrible at math.  Not because of some wiring in his brain or because he didn't try hard enough.  His teachers never required him to master his math facts, and this caught up with him big time.  And over time, he lost confidence and eventually just started telling people he was terrible at math.

Anyways, so I sort of made the connection between this and Science.  Why are some kids able to fly through these Science passages?  Is it because they were exposed to STEM toys and Science books as young children?  Is it because their parents like Science and talked to them about it? I think the reason I was pushing a Science curriculum for 2nd grade was because I wanted to expose my son as much as possible to a subject that I always struggled with.

I have always been fascinated by the Baseball Experiment.  Experiments like these have made me balance skill building and vocabulary/"peg" building during elementary. 

I make a conscious effort to expose my kids to vocabulary and ideas across the domains...not because I think they will remember all of it, but just as exposure.  I try to remember that English is still a "foreign" language to my kids, and since I don't want to drill vocabulary with flashcards or worksheets (yuck! and shown to be ineffective), then I need to repeatedly expose them to all the words I want them to learn in content and contexts that allow them to comprehend and internalize them.

For us, that means both a ton of library books and free reading of fiction and nonfiction books and systematic exposure via "curricula".  I aim for our science and history curricula to be high interest, compelling read alouds.  My kids do very little output for science and history, and no busy work, which means I can choose curricula that introduce them to new, high-level vocabulary and ideas without worrying about whether they will be able to keep up with writings or tests or anything.

I actually take a very similar approach to Spanish.  We have an amazing local Spanish immersion class that all my kids participate in.  The class actually covers interesting, age-appropriate topics through games, read alouds, activities, art projects, etc....all in Spanish.  So before lock down, my 4 year old's class was making robots out of shapes, learning about food chains, planting grass seeds, etc.  My 6 year old's class was learning about ancient Egypt and healthy eating and nouns and verbs.  My 8 year old's class was studying Medieval castles, black history month, and paragraph writing.  My 10 year old's class was reading a middle grades novel, studying Frida Kahlo, and learning about story elements while writing a fictional story.

At home, I try to continue that immersive vocabulary building (even though I am only a strong intermediate Spanish speaker).  I read them a lot of fiction and non-fiction books in Spanish (with a lot of pictures to support our comprehension).  We watch videos, listen to audio books, watch a series of immersion video lessons that use hand gestures to teach conjugation and vocabulary, and just do our best to use Spanish every day.  I subscribe to the Comprehensible Input method of learning foreign languages, so all of our learning is in context.  My older kids have obviously picked up most of the colors and other "beginner" vocab, but my 4 year old (who isn't yet speaking in Spanish much) only knows a couple colors, but can readily understand lots of "more important" words like rompecabezas, lagarto (we have some for pets), tableta, capa, galleta, etc.

Wendy

[EmilyGF]

I had a hard time with foreign language and science in elementary school because I found the curricula took so much time for so little learning.  I think the ideas above are great.

One foreign language hack I love for that age is songs or story recordings in the language that the kids listen to on a regular basis during play time. DS8 listens to the same Spanish play twice a week while playing with duplos. Give it a few more weeks and he'll have all the lines by heart. We also spend 10 minutes a week going through one part of the play in depth each week. So my hands-on time is 10 minutes per week but he's mastering a vocab of about 300 words that includes some interesting grammar and phrases.

Emily

[Garga]

Through 6th grade, science was just reading books.  I’d go to the local library and find the kids’ section.  Then, in the kids’ section there is the non-fiction section.  Then, the non-fiction section is broken into two parts, non-fiction easy and non-fiction for older kids.

I’d go to the kids’ department, non-fiction, easy section.  Once there, the books are sorted by topic.  We’d pick a topic, like volcanos, and check out all the books on volcanos and read them.  Then, we’d find books about the planets and read them.  And books about bugs.  And books about atoms. They LOVED those books. Just LOVED them. There were lots of fun pictures and the concepts were broken down in easy to understand, bite-sized bits. It helped that they could sit on the couch snuggled next to mom, or sitting on their heads (we did a lot of science with the oldest sitting on his head with his feet waving in the air.)

In order to make it a little more interactive, I would have them draw a picture of anything they liked in the book.  As they got older, I’d have them also write a caption to the picture, but I wouldn’t make it grueling. 

It wasn’t until 7th grade that I got some sort of curriculum.  In 5th and 6th, we would sometimes get books from the harder non-fiction section, but I wouldn’t necessarily read the whole thing if it was getting too dry.

Oh, and another thing that was super interesting to the kids—the library also has a section for biographies—easy bios and harder to read bios.  We’d sometimes just get easy bios about scientists. Reading about the people who loved science inspired the kids to be more interested in science for themselves.  Sometimes reading the books about the scientists gives a little glimpse into how science works,  like reading about Edison trying over and over to make a working lightbulb teaches the scientific method.

My kids are just finishing 9th and 12th grade. My oldest has been through bio, chem, physics, astronomy and marine bio in high school and has enjoyed them all for the most part, so I guess all that head-sitting was good for him!  The youngest is finishing an earth and space science and he’s enjoyed that. I think the gentle approach in the early years was good for them.

 

——

And as far as making time for it?  I just had to force myself to do the things that I didn’t want to do.  I would create a schedule for myself and Stick To It, and some days (months/years), it was sheer will power.  

Someone here once said, “If a school teacher taught school the way YOU are teaching school, would you be upset at that teacher?”  That has kept me going a lot over the years.  If a school teacher said, “Eh, I don’t feel like doing science this week kids.  Let’s just not,” I’d be pretty upset as a parent.  Anytime I caught myself doing something that I’d be upset at from a teacher, I would course correct and change my behavior.

 

——

ETA:  totally forgot to add—we’d get “science experiment” books from the library from time to time and do some of them.  I always found those labs very frustrating to do as an adult, but the kids loved them.  We used to do a bunch at a time and I’d feel so frazzled by them.

If I were to do it over again, I’d only come up with 8 or 9 a year and do one a month.  One month could be some sort of plant project outside, a couple of months could come from books from the library, I would maybe get a few kits, like to make crystals, make a volcano.  Whatever I could come up with, but only 1 a month.

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Garga

[PeterPan]

8 hours ago, MomN said:

Anyways, so I sort of made the connection between this and Science.  Why are some kids able to fly through these Science passages?  Is it because they were exposed to STEM toys and Science books as young children?  Is it because their parents like Science and talked to them about it? I think the reason I was pushing a Science curriculum for 2nd grade was because I wanted to expose my son as much as possible to a subject that I always struggled with.

So 80% of reading comprehension is prior knowledge, yes. https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Left-Behind-Understanding-Control/dp/0399534555/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1ASV6IE3OCC7O&dchild=1&keywords=no+mind+left+behind&qid=1589550564&sprefix=no+mind+left%2Caps%2C164&sr=8-1  This is a great book btw. You're having so many good questions, maybe you'd like to do more reading on education and learning. 

However remember reading comprehension is also dependent on syntax/language comprehension, ATTENTION, and other factors. So when I read your comment 

8 hours ago, MomN said:

I can't remember the exact  theme but I'm sitting there and I can barely get through the passage.  I'm the tutor!  I'm bored and the vocabulary is rough.

that to me sounds more like ADHD. Maybe also a lack of prior knowledge, but even then it can go back to ADHD. Or tired mom. 

So I'll tell you a dark, dirty, disgusting secret. My dd's science ACT score was her best score. You know how she got there? READING. I had her read, read, read. Things like 

https://www.amazon.com/Best-American-Science-Nature-Writing-ebook/dp/B07LC8LN1D/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=best+nature+writing&qid=1589550875&sr=8-2  There's a whole series of these, and the Best Writing series also has books for mystery writing, food writing, you name it. I had her READ. I got her piles and piles of these across many topics. I don't have a count, but doubtless she read 4-6 volumes just during her science years. She'd have to read an article, write a response. Sometimes I'd have her read an article and rabbit it, researching to learn more about the topic. (How did it play out, etc.)

When you read well written literature, you're pushing their syntax level. My ds by contrast needs rather controlled literature because his syntax (sentence complexity) just isn't there to support it. He'll listen to stuff, but he has no clue what he heard, can't grapple with it, can't rephrase it, explain it, discuss it, apply it. 

So odds are that student has a high RAN/RAS, reads a lot, reads widely, and in reading widely she became very proficient, developed strong language skills, and broadened her general knowledge to the point where all the pieces come together. Students like that are amazing, yes. My dd went into 300 level philosophy classes at the university, just boom. She could do that. But I had her reading philosophy books and thinking that widely.

Your science curriculum and drilling little facts won't do diddley for that. Shhh, but I didn't do a lot of that. I guess you can board search and see. Do you know how to do a google site search? You want your terms plus site:welltrainedmind.com . Here's one to get you started

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=science+dd+peterpan+site:welltrainedmind.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

That's "science dd peterpan site:welltrainedmind.com" You pop that in your google browser bar and you can see whatever I did. Maybe I was way stellar at science and I've forgotten, lol. I mean, it's not like we did nothing. But I can tell you it was way less impressive than what you'd think it needs to be to get a science ACT score that high. They need to be able to read graphs, attend, deal with syntactical complexity, and have some prior knowledge. 

Also, just a total aside, but it's really hard to have strong reading if your eyes are giving you fits. Number one thing you can do to promote good academics? Get their eyes checked annually by a developmental optometrist. Seriously. My dd had visual memory issues and was getting headaches. We did VT (vision therapy) and that shot up her ability to use her eyes to read. Conversely, you're a mom, you're tired, it's the end of the day, you're working, your eyes are going to have a harder time. So even things like how our eyes function, whether we have convergence or developmental vision issues, whether our RAN/RAS (rapid naming) is strong, etc. factor in. You find a developmental optometrist through COVD.org and you just have your kids do their annual checks that way. And for RAN/RAS, you can research it and do drills if they seem to have poor RAN/RAS. But if their foundational skills are strong, the science reading comprehension may come together *in spite* of whatever you do for science, not because of it.

Edited May 15, 2020 by PeterPan

[Clemsondana]

I am also a big believer in exposing kids to a broad range of information.  We love museums, aquariums, etc - my kids saw many things while they were still in elementary school.  For history/geography/science, we used the Core Knowledge sequence (there is nothing magical about this sequence, but it was the plan that we used).  My kids are 3 years apart, so I didn't try to keep them together on content.  But, we'd do the same sorts of units at the same time.  We usually did a month of geography, then a month of world history, then a month of science, and then 2 weeks of music history.  Then in the spring we did a month of science, a month of US history, a bit more science, 2 weeks of art history, and then field trips.  The month timeline was basic - it could be anywhere from 3-8 weeks, with adjustments as needed.  So, even if the kids were doing different things, they'd both be doing physical science, the human body, or US history at the same time, but learning about different aspects.  I would assemble a basket of books and let them pick things to read, or read to them.  We liked starting a unit with The Cat in the Hat Knows a Lot About That books.  For ecology, we like the One Small Square series.  Illustrated books by Biesty were fun.  In other words, I had content that I might want to address, like plants, or planets, or insects, but we didn't have to do much besides read about it.  We also used some PBS - The Cat in the Hat knows a lot about that was a popular show, as was Dinosaur Train and Wild Kratts.  The Magic School Bus also had both TV and book versions.  I'm sure there are different ones now.  We didn't use a textbook for science until middle school (and not every year in middle school).  

Edited May 15, 2020 by ClemsonDana

[MomN]

So it seems what I am hearing is that through elementary school, EXPOSURE is the most important thing, not quantity or output or even formal curriculum.  It's important that my kids see and read and play with science around them but not necessarily in a boring textbook way.  I like this.  It already takes some of the burden of doing Science away (it's actually supposed to be fun 🤪).

But the wires in my brain still equate Science with work, so for that reason I still think I need more than just a reminder each week to get non-fiction Science books from the library.  I know it won't get done.  I know myself. So I'll think more about this and how to envision a Science class that is most important FUN and whose primary goal is exposure.  It definitely takes the pressure off. I can do fun.

Spanish is a little different because it's more than just exposure they need.  They need to be able to talk to their grandma and FaceTime with their grandpa in PR.  It's not a school thing for me.  It's more personal than that.  And like most people said in this post, it's probably not my job, but it has become my job.  So I will continue searching for a method that works for us and probably most importantly, carve out a sufficient amount of time each week for this to happen consistently.  My boys don't see much value in speaking Spanish and I think I really have to start there.

Thanks for all the great posts.

[Lori D.]

22 minutes ago, MomN said:

So it seems what I am hearing is that through elementary school, EXPOSURE is the most important thing, not quantity or output or even formal curriculum.  It's important that my kids see and read and play with science around them but not necessarily in a boring textbook way.  I like this.  It already takes some of the burden of doing Science away (it's actually supposed to be fun 🤪).

But the wires in my brain still equate Science with work, so for that reason I still think I need more than just a reminder each week to get non-fiction Science books from the library.  I know it won't get done.  I know myself. So I'll think more about this and how to envision a Science class that is most important FUN and whose primary goal is exposure.  It definitely takes the pressure off. I can do fun...

Yes, that's it.

re: library books
You can always let each child pick out a few non-fiction / science books when you go to the library, either to go in the book basket for their own free reading, or for you to have on hand to pull out and read a few pages first thing in the morning, as part of your "together time". That could be the "schedule" part for you to check off: -- listing it as: "10 minutes read-aloud from Science book out of the basket." 😉  That daily 10 minute exposure to Science could be part of the family "brain warm-up". And then you would still have your FUN science scheduled however it works for you...

Edited May 16, 2020 by Lori D.

[MomN]

I thought this was kind of cool.  I went over to my sister's house today, who is getting ready to move to a farm.  And I'm talking to her boyfriend and he's telling me about growing vegetables on the farm.  And he's passionate about it.  And knowledgeable.  And I'm like, "Jon, I had no idea you knew about this stuff."  He's a carpenter.  And he told me that his dad EXPOSED him to gardening when he was young.  He actually used the word EXPOSED.  And it got us talking about exposure as the seed that can cultivate future interest and success in something.  It wasn't like his dad was this huge gardener or anything.  But it was simple moments outside in the dirt that gave him the foundation today for doing what he is doing.  I thought it was a cool connection to our conversation here.  Helps me see once more that it's SO MUCH more about creating memories and positive experiences.

Made me smile 😀

[Lori D.]

14 minutes ago, MomN said:

I thought this was kind of cool.  I went over to my sister's house today, who is getting ready to move to a farm.  And I'm talking to her boyfriend and he's telling me about growing vegetables on the farm.  And he's passionate about it.  And knowledgeable.  And I'm like, "Jon, I had no idea you knew about this stuff."  He's a carpenter.  And he told me that his dad EXPOSED him to gardening when he was young.  He actually used the word EXPOSED.  And it got us talking about exposure as the seed that can cultivate future interest and success in something.  It wasn't like his dad was this huge gardener or anything.  But it was simple moments outside in the dirt that gave him the foundation today for doing what he is doing.  I thought it was a cool connection to our conversation here.  Helps me see once more that it's SO MUCH more about creating memories and positive experiences.

Made me smile 😀

SO cool -- growing a garden was so much fun for DSs. And making a leaf collection and looking up leaves in the tree identification book. And dissecting owl pellets. And mixing baking soda and vinegar. And using a prism to split sunlight. And using a magnifying glass on everything. And putting together snap circuits. And building bridges and towers from recycling materials. And watching the Magic School Bus. And... Seriously, I think Science is going to be fun for YOU, too! 😄 

[wendyroo]

34 minutes ago, MomN said:

So it seems what I am hearing is that through elementary school, EXPOSURE is the most important thing, not quantity or output or even formal curriculum.  It's important that my kids see and read and play with science around them but not necessarily in a boring textbook way.  I like this.  It already takes some of the burden of doing Science away (it's actually supposed to be fun 🤪).

But the wires in my brain still equate Science with work, so for that reason I still think I need more than just a reminder each week to get non-fiction Science books from the library.  I know it won't get done.  I know myself. So I'll think more about this and how to envision a Science class that is most important FUN and whose primary goal is exposure.  It definitely takes the pressure off. I can do fun.

Spanish is a little different because it's more than just exposure they need.  They need to be able to talk to their grandma and FaceTime with their grandpa in PR.  It's not a school thing for me.  It's more personal than that.  And like most people said in this post, it's probably not my job, but it has become my job.  So I will continue searching for a method that works for us and probably most importantly, carve out a sufficient amount of time each week for this to happen consistently.  My boys don't see much value in speaking Spanish and I think I really have to start there.

Thanks for all the great posts.

About science...to give our science exposure more structure, we have used and love Mr. Q Classical Science courses.  To us it feels like a cross between a textbook and a living book.  It is written by a science teacher and is very conversational, peppered with comics, jokes and questions directed at the student.  Each chapter does have crossword puzzles and vocabulary matching type pages, but we skip those.  Each chapter also has discussion questions (we use those) and two experiments/demonstrations that relate to the chapter topic (we normally choose the one we find most interesting rather than doing both).  The experiments are mostly simple and truly do use supplies you probably already have around the house.  My favorite part is that the program puts an emphasis on understanding the scientific method and experimental design.  Each year, several experiments guide the student through forming a hypothesis, designating dependent and independent variable, running the experiment, collecting data, and then graphing it to prove or disprove the hypothesis.

The best part is that Mr. Q Life Science is completely free, so you can try it out for a year to see if it works for you.  After that, if you want to buy more, I suggest doing so in January when they run a 50% off sale.  We have now completely all four of his elementary courses and the first of his upper level courses.  We plan to continue though his upper level courses.

About Spanish...since your kids actually have relatives to connect to in Spanish, one way you could organize your studies is by focusing first on greeting type conversation and branching out from there.  If it were me, I would not approach it in an academic way, but rather exactly how you taught the kids their first language.  For example, during breakfast one morning you could look at your oldest and say, "Estoy muy bien esta mañana.  ¿Cómo estás?"  Use hand gestures, exaggerate your vocal tones and give them facial clues as to the meaning.  Then using your best mime skills, run through 3 possible answers.  As soon as the kiddo gives even a small sign (a nod, answering in English, etc), light up with enthusiasm and phrase their answer for them: "¡Estás muy bien!"  Repeat with the next younger child and then the youngest...and then be done for the day.  I'm betting if you went through that ritual each morning, by the end of the week each of the kids would understand the question and be able to reply in some way (even if answering appropriately in English). 

So then add to the conversation.  Maybe next teach ¿Te gusta?.  So after asking ¿Cómo estás?, then hold something up and ask if they like it.  ¿Te gusta leche?  Again provide possible answers and give them dramatic (funny) facial mime clues.  Once they have a grasp on liking nouns, then move on to liking verbs.  Again, mime, and start sprinkling  ¿Te gusta? into your daily life.  This is great because it gets them very familiar with the question and answering sí or no, and it also allows you to introduce tons of very practical nouns and verbs in context when the child is actually holding the object or performing the action.  Unless they ask, don't worry about providing precise translations.  When you ask ¿Te gusta piña? they won't know for sure if you are asking if they like breakfast or eating or fruit or pineapple...that is okay.  That is how kids naturally learn language.  Their brains are primed to construct meaning from imprecise linguistic input.  Young kids take it completely in stride that sometimes you ask ¿Te gusta? and sometimes you ask ¿Te gustan?, even if they have no clue why. 

Of course when they start producing speech they often get it wrong, just like young kids say "I has" or "I runned"; they truly will figure it out given time and conversation.  And just like parents and grandparents delight in and encourage the first ungrammatical utterances of toddlers, so will they when your kids can first start to make themselves understood and share facets of their life, even if it is "Me gusta galletas".  Reaching fluency is truly a marathon, not a sprint, BUT reaching that first milestone of being able to actually communicate an idea that is meaningful to you can be achieved sooner rather than later if you first focus on the most functional verbs.  In Spanish learning circles they are called the Super 7:  estoy, hay, tengo, soy, me gusta, voy, and quiero.  My 4 year old only know three of them so far, but the ideas she wants to communicate are pretty simple, so hay, tengo and me gusta actually allow her to talk about a wide range of topics that are important to her.  And I think that is the key, they are important to her.  I could never interest her in worksheets or flashcards or drill of random lists of vocab, but she loves using the Spanish she knows (and asking to learn new words) to describe the things in her life that she sees, has and likes.  And it boggles my mind that my current 11 year knew even less Spanish when he was 4, and now, with only limited, imperfect, consistent but unsystematic exposure, he can discuss a novel, tell a joke, plan a trip, write a story, etc.  He is nowhere near fluent, but he can do so much with his Spanish, he can functionally (though imperfectly) express so many ideas, he feels comfortable diving in and communicating and just finding ways to understand and be understood - and those have always been my primary goals for language learning.

 

[LauraClark]

Just adding my encouragement that I have my thing too: art.  And I LOVE art (so do my kids).  But it's messy and by the time we get our other stuff done I'm tired...so it finds a way of slipping through the cracks.  Next year I'm doing an art class for my kids and a few of our friends.  It will be on Friday, the day when we don't do our normal math, l.a., history, etc.  I'm planning Friday to be our "fun" day.

[MomN]

Wendy, I will definitely check out Mr Q. and am printing out your Spanish advice to come back to this.  Love the Super 7!

22 hours ago, wendyroo said:

He is nowhere near fluent, but he can do so much with his Spanish, he can functionally (though imperfectly) express so many ideas, he feels comfortable diving in and communicating and just finding ways to understand and be understood - and those have always been my primary goals for language learning.

Me too!

[Momof3]

On 5/15/2020 at 8:06 PM, MomN said:

So it seems what I am hearing is that through elementary school, EXPOSURE is the most important thing, not quantity or output or even formal curriculum.  It's important that my kids see and read and play with science around them but not necessarily in a boring textbook way.  I like this.  It already takes some of the burden of doing Science away (it's actually supposed to be fun 🤪).

But the wires in my brain still equate Science with work, so for that reason I still think I need more than just a reminder each week to get non-fiction Science books from the library.  I know it won't get done.  I know myself. So I'll think more about this and how to envision a Science class that is most important FUN and whose primary goal is exposure.  It definitely takes the pressure off. I can do fun.

Spanish is a little different because it's more than just exposure they need.  They need to be able to talk to their grandma and FaceTime with their grandpa in PR.  It's not a school thing for me.  It's more personal than that.  And like most people said in this post, it's probably not my job, but it has become my job.  So I will continue searching for a method that works for us and probably most importantly, carve out a sufficient amount of time each week for this to happen consistently.  My boys don't see much value in speaking Spanish and I think I really have to start there.

Thanks for all the great posts.

Yes! I started alternating weeks between science and history because I found that we *always* did history, while science was hit-or-miss. For us, this was because I LOVE history, but have always felt inadequate to teach science. I had a curriculum. The problem was that I really wasn't motivated to "do science." When we started alternating, we ditched the curriculum and just read lots and lots of science books. This peaked our interest (mine included!) in a host of topics, and we started doing more digging. Life happens and we make connections. Now I am so looking forward to more science next year! I've gotten back to curriculum with the older ones, but we feel free to run away with topics that catch our interest. 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Lower elementary science = Magic Schoolbus videos (old and new series), Let's Read and Find Out books, and The Body Book by Scholastic.