Harvard Magazine Article: "The Risks of Homeschooling"

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, Miguelsmom said:

I dropped out of school. School failed both myself and my husband. Preschool made it clear that public school would not work for my child. Later we tried virtual school and that just cemented my beliefs.  I’m good with a portfolio review for progress but that’s it. Having an option to opt into reading or math interventions, occupational, physical and speech therapy would be great. However I think that would cause more people to homeschool. Most homeschoolers that I know can not afford to hire intervention if needed. So they work within their means.

My state allows homeschool students to get evaluations, therapy, etc just like the public school students. Now, I could say that they don't do a great job with the public school students either, but at least there is equity. My DD got a full psychoeducational workup via the school and her dyslexia diagnosis. She's also done speech evaluations, but didn't qualify for therapy (and wouldn't if she was a public school student) because they no longer consider a lisp to effect educational progress. 

[Violet Crown]

@Meriwether While the bulk of the article consists of warmed-over anti-homeschooling rhetoric from the '90s, there are three differences from the articles of the bad old days. One: back in the day the hit piece would have ended with the Big Prediction: "In twenty years we'll be seeing all these home-schooled people, ignorant as pigs, on welfare!" That's gone.

Two: your observation. The accusation decades ago was that homeschoolers were "Fundamentalists" who used nothing but the Bible, and who taught Creationism in science class. There was some awareness that Christianity came in different flavors; and there was a sense that some fig leaf was required as to why one shouldn't trust Fundies with the education of their own children.

Now it's enough to assert (absurdly) that nearly all homeschoolers are "driven by conservative Christian beliefs," and res ipsa loquitur, as they say at Harvard Law.

(The third difference is that the hyphen in "home-school" has now been dropped.)

[Donna]

14 hours ago, maize said:

Here's one response from a homeschooled Harvard grad:.

https://medium.com/@melbapearson/a-response-to-the-risks-of-homeschooling-from-a-homeschooled-harvard-grad-67648f9a0d0f

Thank you for finding and posting this.

The original article was wrong on so many levels I had difficulty parsing it down to a short response for this forum. The author of this article does a much better job at stating many of the things I was thinking. Public school, with its teaching to the middle and lack of gifted funding, could never have provided my DD with the education adapted to her needs and learning style like I did through homeschooling. She has thrived on so many levels than simply education. I sent both DSs to public school for high school and wish I had kept them home. Their educations were lacking on so many levels. Even they would tell people, school was much easier and required less work than mom.

For Elizabeth Bartholet, to assert,  "Homeschooling not only violates children's right to a meaningful education and their right to be protected from potential child abuse, but may keep them from contributing positively to a democratic society" is insulting at best. Obviously she has not looked at any of the research on homeschoolers compared to public schoolers.
 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Donna

[maize]

Here's another thoughtful response:

https://fee.org/articles/harvard-magazine-calls-for-a-presumptive-ban-on-homeschooling-here-are-5-things-it-got-wrong/?utm_source=zapier&fbclid=IwAR1Dv9tlWzhyW9sHen4A18hnd6f4eXvmDiKylWulNOjJYMO5zE44oF1v1jo

[Matryoshka]

3 hours ago, Plum said:

This may be too political. I'll delete if you want. 

As if I'm not already mad at Harvard already.....Despite their $40B endowment, Harvard took almort $9M from the CARES Act. 

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/4/15/harvard-coronavirus-cares-act/

Makes me very cranky. I am totally good with getting  $0 from this stimulus package,  'cause we're good. Now the big chains that sucked all the $$ out of the small business loan program while leaving actual small businesses in the cold, and universities with ginormous endowments who took millions while our flagship state university (same state!) has a $40M deficit, should give the darn money back so it can be given to those who are actually in need!! 😠 And no, telling me those millions will go to a bunch of future  Harvard freshmen does not make it better! Use the $$$ you already have for that you entitled  €¥! $#!

Edited April 22, 2020 by Matryoshka

[cintinative]

Here's another response article. I am just now reading it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemcshane/2020/04/21/harvards-lazy-attack-on-homeschooling/#1d38573c2473

[PeachyDoodle]

Here is the complete paper by Dr. Bartholet, who is quoted in the original article and is organizing the anti-homeschooling conference:

Homeschooling: Parent Rights Absolutism Vs. Child Rights to Education and Protection

I haven't read it yet, because it's 80 pages (!) but will certainly do so. In between abusing and not educating my children, of course. /sarcasm

ETA: From the abstract:

Quote

This Article describes the rapidly growing homeschooling phenomenon and the threat it poses to children and society. Homeschooling activists have in recent decades largely succeeded in their deregulation campaign, overwhelming legislators with aggressive advocacy. As a result, parents can now keep their children at home in the name of homeschooling free from any real scrutiny as to whether or how they are educating their children. Many homeschool because they want to isolate their children from ideas and values central to our democracy, determined to keep their children from exposure to views that might enable autonomous choice about their future lives. Many promote racial segregation and female subservience. Many question science. Abusive parents can keep their children at home free from the risk that teachers will report them to child protection services. Some homeschool precisely for this reason. This Article calls for a radical transformation in the homeschooling regime and a related rethinking of child rights. It recommends a presumptive ban on homeschooling, with the burden on parents to demonstrate justification for permission to homeschool.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by PeachyDoodle

[Violet Crown]

2 hours ago, PeachyDoodle said:

This Article describes the rapidly growing homeschooling phenomenon and the threat it poses to children and society. Homeschooling activists have in recent decades largely succeeded in their deregulation campaign, overwhelming legislators with aggressive advocacy. As a result, parents can now keep their children at home in the name of homeschooling free from any real scrutiny as to whether or how they are educating their children.

This gives pause for thought. The HSLDA has its faults, which have been thoroughly hashed out on these forums, and I'm not a supporter after having had a front-row seat in an incident where they swept into a situation that was being dealt with in-house and ratcheted everything up to 11. 

But ... this awful woman has a point. We have the arguments and evidence on our side. But how often does that matter on the ground? If homeschooling is "winning" in part, possibly even in large part, not so much because we're winning over hearts and minds but because homeschool moms are networked wolverines when some idiot legislator decides to placate his local teacher's association at the expense of homeschoolers, then I do think the HSLDA deserves some of the credit for that. Even if I disagree with them on every other issue than homeschooling. 

Yes, I wish there were some other organization without the baggage of HSLDA, and with their name recognition, membership rolls, and take-no-prisoners cussedness. But there isn't.

[catz]

2 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Another great response to the article, though I dislike the title.

https://www.falkirkcenter.com/2020/04/21/liberal-elites-are-terrified-more-parents-will-choose-home-schooling/

 

Yes, well this is just more stereotyping IMO.  I'm surrounded by so-called and we'd qualify as "liberal elites" choosing to homeschooling.  Harvard itself lets in homeschoolers every year.  I'm all for calling out intolerance where it exists, but many liberal elites in this area attend Christian churches.  I'd ridiculous to insinuate every child out of a public school becomes an unthinking liberal talking head as this article implies.  One could argue about this particular author's critical thinking skills on a number of points in this article.  

[SanDiegoMom]

3 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Another great response to the article, though I dislike the title.

https://www.falkirkcenter.com/2020/04/21/liberal-elites-are-terrified-more-parents-will-choose-home-schooling/

 

Liberal elites is just another lazy stereotype as well.  Somewhat ironic that an article rejecting an argument that lumps all homeschoolers into one group does that exact same thing in their rebuttal. 

[Bronze]

13 minutes ago, Plum said:

I am hesitant to write this because I don’t believe in digging up people’s past to prove points. This topic seems recent enough to at least take a look at.  Plus I fear I may be off here. 
 

I do find it curious that she helped organize the effort to support the Harvard professor defending Harvey Weinstein. She helped pen the letter to have all of the faculty sign.
And then she wrote an article called #MeTooExcesses about wanting to investigate all sides of accusations before rushing to judgement. It seemed a little hypocritical to me that she doesn’t want to lump accuser and accused into one category of guilty and victim but instead look at each case individually while at the same time not giving homeschoolers the same level of reserved judgement. 

She does seem to have a major bias against homeschoolers.

Also against religious conservatives.

This kind of bias creates serious perceptual holes.

[gardenmom5]

I'm surprised there aren't any rumblings in MA - John Harvard has been spinning in his grave for years.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Bronze said:

She does seem to have a major bias against homeschoolers.

Also against religious conservatives.

This kind of bias creates serious perceptual holes.

I think there are a lot of academics/medical drs who equate homeschoolers with religious conservatives.  I'm sure she'd be shocked to find out there are liberal homeschoolers, but probably more so to find out there are "formally educated" homeschoolers who hold doctorates of substance.  and there are homeschoolers who aren't "low income".

she's quite biased (but not the first one I've come across.)

[catz]

This is an excellent response with REAL data

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemcshane/2020/04/21/harvards-lazy-attack-on-homeschooling/?subId3=xid%3Afr1587487973935ffd&fbclid=IwAR2rNoK9aSHRDGK0dIrCS61EarWK_aZpQPB3vJP2zRHZlBOJsW1nef2u2Lw#65bea4092473

[gardenmom5]

On 4/22/2020 at 10:15 AM, FuzzyCatz said:

This is an excellent response with REAL data

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemcshane/2020/04/21/harvards-lazy-attack-on-homeschooling/?subId3=xid%3Afr1587487973935ffd&fbclid=IwAR2rNoK9aSHRDGK0dIrCS61EarWK_aZpQPB3vJP2zRHZlBOJsW1nef2u2Lw#65bea4092473

This makes me think of the response to some business magazine claiming that tech companies were taking advantage of those on the Autism Spectrum by employing them to code. . . . . Me thinks the business insiders were projecting their frustration that coders make more money than them. . .  

[Abraham]

National Review must have published at least half a dozen articles slamming this article.

One chilling passage that I read the other day:

"Elizabeth Bartholet is one of more than ten speakers scheduled to address Harvard Law School’s "Homeschooling Summit” in June. The event was organized by William & Mary law professor James Dwyer, who has said that the “reason parent-child relationships exist is because the State confers legal parenthood” on parents. In other words, to Dwyer, the state is endowed with a near-absolute authority to nullify the parent-child relationship, an authority that — of its own beneficence — it has abstained from exercising."

I have no doubt Bartholet would fit right in with that crowd.

[kiwik]

It does seem sloppy.  I can't prove that 90%of homeschoolers in the US aren't conservative Christians but I doubt it and it is not the case here.  Someone on another board claimed 2/3 of homeschoolers were doing it for religious reasons but apparently in 2019 65% of US citizens said they were Christian do 2/3 being Christian seems right.  I doubt that religion is the sole reason though - just an added bonus to many.  After all the vast majority of Christians don't home school.

[2_girls_mommy]

On 4/19/2020 at 9:41 PM, RootAnn said:

 I have a kid who has a hobby of exploring 70-90s music. Though her fashion scene can be described most as "flannel."

I am completely against mandated standardized testing. Especially annual testing.

I give my kids a standardized test in 4th, 6th, & 8th grade. (After that, we switch to ACT/SAT college tests but my current high school junior hasn't taken an official one of those yet.) Before and even at the 4th grade level, my kids' results don't reflect their later abilities because I have late bloomers. They are generally late to read, bad at math, and spend more time thinking about other topics than the tests in front of them. By high school, they are at least better at concentrating on what is important (which may or may not be the test in front of them).

The test results help me to see if I'm missing something -- if they are struggling in an area that I didn't know about. But mandate them? That would increase anxiety, possibly encourage cheating, and mean some would spend time teaching to the test. No, thank you!

I am totally against mandatory testing too. We did zero standardized testing, absolutely none, until the PSAT. 

My odd actually received a letter from Harvard asking her to apply (and from Yale and other top schools, ) so I have found this whole article funny. They obviously reached out to mine knowing she was homeschooled after her ACTs.  We visited Harvard and talked to admissions officers on campus and when they were here about homeschoolers, and they had no qualms about homeschooling whatsoever and advised us on what they wanted to see from their records. We had the same experience with Yale and other admissions officers we talked to. She was a Questbridge National College Match finalist. She didn't get into Harvard (very few do, but we had to try!) but is waitlisted at one of the country's top schools. So she wasn't quite first choice, but she's done ok. She'll go to our state's honor college (unless by change a spot opens up for her, fingers crossed!) and keep trying her best to reach her goals.  Yes, mine is a great student and a high acheiver. But I have no doubt that her potentials were reached because of homeschooling and the freedom and flexibility it gave us. 

I know, anecdotal, but we have zero regulation in our state. Zero testing requirements. I did what I found worked for me as far as test preparation when it came time for her goals, and I used my own methods for keeping tabs on how they were doing. I focused on educating my kids, not test prep. We prepared for what I knew she was capable of and interested in. My next kiddo is a different type of student with different goals. We will focus on her goals and individualize our approach with her as well. 

[2_girls_mommy]

1 hour ago, Abraham said:

National Review must have published at least half a dozen articles slamming this article.

One chilling passage that I read the other day:

"Elizabeth Bartholet is one of more than ten speakers scheduled to address Harvard Law School’s "Homeschooling Summit” in June. The event was organized by William & Mary law professor James Dwyer, who has said that the “reason parent-child relationships exist is because the State confers legal parenthood” on parents. In other words, to Dwyer, the state is endowed with a near-absolute authority to nullify the parent-child relationship, an authority that — of its own beneficence — it has abstained from exercising."

I have no doubt Bartholet would fit right in with that crowd.

Yes, they definitely have an agenda. It's about more than homeschooling. 

[TravelingChris]

 PeachyDoodle posted

Here is the complete paper by Dr. Bartholet, who is quoted in the original article and is organizing the anti-homeschooling conference:

Homeschooling: Parent Rights Absolutism Vs. Child Rights to Education and Protection

I haven't read it yet, because it's 80 pages (!) but will certainly do so. In between abusing and not educating my children, of course. /sarcasm

ETA: From the abstract:

 

I can't figure out how to add text underneath the part of the quote I have bolded.  Darn right we question science.  That is what scientists do.  Note the long Wuhan thread were collectively the Hive has been questioning official scientific positions of the WHO and the CDC and were proven right by both those organizations changing their mind.  Non scientists like Dr. Bartholet seems to think that science is some absolute type of knowledge- right or wrong. and all has been decided.  True scientists know that scientific facts are changing rapidly and will continue to change.  The whole point of scientific inquiry to question past assumptions or past results or theories that have been proposed.  Everyone should be questioning science.  This does not mean that I am a flat earther or anti vaccer or anything like that.  But the science book I read about my lupus about 30 years ago told me I wouldn't even be alive now, almost certainly.  You bet we thought our children to question science, question polls,question nature, question historic accounts,, etc.  We did not teach our children to be computers spitting out what we or someone else fed them in knowledge.  Knowledge is changing at an unimaginable rate and no one can keep up.  Ask my phsysicist doctorate husband,  Ask any good scientist.  We should always be questioning science.

  Quote

This Article describes the rapidly growing homeschooling phenomenon and the threat it poses to children and society. Homeschooling activists have in recent decades largely succeeded in their deregulation campaign, overwhelming legislators with aggressive advocacy. As a result, parents can now keep their children at home in the name of homeschooling free from any real scrutiny as to whether or how they are educating their children. Many homeschool because they want to isolate their children from ideas and values central to our democracy, determined to keep their children from exposure to views that might enable autonomous choice about their future lives. Many promote racial segregation and female subservience. Many question science. Abusive parents can keep their children at home free from the risk that teachers will report them to child protection services. Some homeschool precisely for this reason. This Article calls for a radical transformation in the homeschooling regime and a related rethinking of child rights. It recommends a presumptive ban on homeschooling, with the burden on parents to demonstrate justification for permission to homeschool.

[El...]

On 4/22/2020 at 4:39 PM, Violet Crown said:

This gives pause for thought. The HSLDA has its faults, which have been thoroughly hashed out on these forums, and I'm not a supporter after having had a front-row seat in an incident where they swept into a situation that was being dealt with in-house and ratcheted everything up to 11. 

But ... this awful woman has a point. We have the arguments and evidence on our side. But how often does that matter on the ground? If homeschooling is "winning" in part, possibly even in large part, not so much because we're winning over hearts and minds but because homeschool moms are networked wolverines when some idiot legislator decides to placate his local teacher's association at the expense of homeschoolers, then I do think the HSLDA deserves some of the credit for that. Even if I disagree with them on every other issue than homeschooling. 

Yes, I wish there were some other organization without the baggage of HSLDA, and with their name recognition, membership rolls, and take-no-prisoners cussedness. But there isn't.

Networked Wolverines has GOT to be our new club name.

[LucyStoner]

People who write stuff like this never seem to consider those for whom school is an absolute sh!t show.  
 

We homeschooled for a decade.  This was the first year my sons were both enrolled in school.  My older son was DONE by November.  My younger son?  We had to hire an attorney in October to respond the school district egregiously violating the IDEA Act.  We prevailed but what message did my younger son absorb about himself from the school wanting to just not meet his IEP needs?  That he’s a terrible person and that being autistic makes him “bad”.  
 

My older son is now simply enrolled in high school on paper for the two years of free college he can access.  My younger son is technically enrolled FT but before the closure was only attended PT with a 1-1 aide hired from an outside agency and not a para via the school.  My younger son is supposed to be in middle school next year.  It is highly probable that he will go only for band (there are no decent options here for an analogous experience for homeschooling students and I am not qualified to change that), sports and maybe 1 academic class.  The district thinks he’s coming back full time but I’m like “y’all had your frigging chance.”

Academically, my older son is a high achiever across all subjects.  My younger son is ahead in everything except Math, where he qualifies for services.  He also qualifies for services in Writing, even though he writes very well when his needs are accommodated.  Even though he struggles with math and can’t keep up in a regular math class setting, he still tests about grade level for math on their tests.  Socially, they are both very community minded and care a lot about others.  They each have friends and do fine socially when not being treated badly at school.  All of this seemed to stymie the district who tried and failed to say that my younger son’s struggles were a function of having been homeschooled.  

We have to stop pretending school works for everyone.  It simply doesn’t.  I’m not anti-school but schools are not built for all children and wishing for that to be so doesn’t make it true.  

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by LucyStoner

[2_girls_mommy]

11 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

 PeachyDoodle posted

Here is the complete paper by Dr. Bartholet, who is quoted in the original article and is organizing the anti-homeschooling conference:

Homeschooling: Parent Rights Absolutism Vs. Child Rights to Education and Protection

I haven't read it yet, because it's 80 pages (!) but will certainly do so. In between abusing and not educating my children, of course. /sarcasm

ETA: From the abstract:

 

I can't figure out how to add text underneath the part of the quote I have bolded.  Darn right we question science.  That is what scientists do.  Note the long Wuhan thread were collectively the Hive has been questioning official scientific positions of the WHO and the CDC and were proven right by both those organizations changing their mind.  Non scientists like Dr. Bartholet seems to think that science is some absolute type of knowledge- right or wrong. and all has been decided.  True scientists know that scientific facts are changing rapidly and will continue to change.  The whole point of scientific inquiry to question past assumptions or past results or theories that have been proposed.  Everyone should be questioning science.  This does not mean that I am a flat earther or anti vaccer or anything like that.  But the science book I read about my lupus about 30 years ago told me I wouldn't even be alive now, almost certainly.  You bet we thought our children to question science, question polls,question nature, question historic accounts,, etc.  We did not teach our children to be computers spitting out what we or someone else fed them in knowledge.  Knowledge is changing at an unimaginable rate and no one can keep up.  Ask my phsysicist doctorate husband,  Ask any good scientist.  We should always be questioning science.

  Quote

This Article describes the rapidly growing homeschooling phenomenon and the threat it poses to children and society. Homeschooling activists have in recent decades largely succeeded in their deregulation campaign, overwhelming legislators with aggressive advocacy. As a result, parents can now keep their children at home in the name of homeschooling free from any real scrutiny as to whether or how they are educating their children. Many homeschool because they want to isolate their children from ideas and values central to our democracy, determined to keep their children from exposure to views that might enable autonomous choice about their future lives. Many promote racial segregation and female subservience. Many question science. Abusive parents can keep their children at home free from the risk that teachers will report them to child protection services. Some homeschool precisely for this reason. This Article calls for a radical transformation in the homeschooling regime and a related rethinking of child rights. It recommends a presumptive ban on homeschooling, with the burden on parents to demonstrate justification for permission to homeschool.

Amen to this.