What are your thoughts on the Government Stimulus Checks?

[EmseB]

The headline is not misleading. This was a bipartisan bill that was tanked for political reasons.

I think within the next week we'll see a bill with a bunch of special interests included that have nothing to do with pandemic aid.

But I'm pretty cynical about any of it making a dent in the depression that's about to happen anyway. Zero interest loans and cash payouts do nothing if people can't be productive for weeks on end. In fact, taking on a loan, zero interest or otherwise, when there is no revenue incoming or projected is probably worse overall. We can't keep the economy shut down indefinitely and half measures aren't going to stop the virus.

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, EmseB said:

The headline is not misleading. This was a bipartisan bill that was tanked for political reasons.

 

No, it wasn't. a 50/50 vote is not bipartisan. It was tanked for the VERY specific reasons outlined in almost all articles on the subject. You can agree with all, some, or none of those objections but saying it was a bipartisan bill? Hogwash. ETA: I *do* have faith that a bipartisan consensus will be reached and that it will both stabilize the markets (in time) and preserve the economy.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Sneezyone

[EmseB]

17 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

This headline is so, so misleading. The sticking points are the 500B, unrestrained, undisclosed, funds that Treasury (under the direction of moneybags Mnuchin) can distribute at will as well as some provisions that weaken protections established after the last crash. I think, within the next week, a deal will be reached requiring additional (warranted) oversight and requirements for the distribution of those funds to corporations including the use of a 'special master' to create fair rules (as was used with the 9/11 victim's compensation fund).

There is oversight in the bill? Loans to big businesses in this bill already restrict things like stock buybacks and increasing CEO pay. There's a whole section someone linked elsewhere that creates those rules. Unless it changed in the last 12 hours?

Also, instead of blocking the bill, allowing it to go forward with additional debate would have been seen as at least attempting to work together. But I've always said that Congress not being able to do stuff is a feature not a bug. I just don't want to hear how one side or the other is obstructionist at this point. That, to me, is hilarious in all this. As in, yes, legislators obstruct bills they don't want to pass for whatever reason. It's not inherently bad to be obstructionist, as this current kerfuffle reveals.

[EmseB]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

No, it wasn't. a 50/50 vote is not bipartisan. It was tanked for the VERY specific reasons outlined in almost all articles on the subject. You can agree with all, some, or none of those objections but saying it was a bipartisan bill? Hogwash. ETA: I *do* have faith that a bipartisan consensus will be reached and that it will both stabilize the markets (in time) and preserve the economy.

By bipartisan, the legislature was working together to craft it. Until.

Why tank the whole thing on a dime after both sides had been working on it for a week? That is on one side, well, two people really. I'll stop now since this is probably way outside of board rules.

[Corraleno]

34 minutes ago, Quill said:

Like everyone, my anxiety about all the uncertainties is ratcheted up to a nine. I don’t think I deserve to be stressed about income not coming in any more than my tenant worried about the same thing. 

Rental property is an investment, just like owning stocks and bonds. The thing about investments, though, is that they always carry the risk of losing not only the income but the capital invested as well. That is a risk that those who choose to invest in the real estate and stock markets willingly take. Expecting to reap the rewards (appreciation and income) when the economy is doing well, while also being bailed out by the government when things go south, is disingenuous. 

I understand that this is stressing you out, but if you own multiple rental properties outright, with no loans, then you obviously have the means to raise money if you need it (borrowing against the equity or selling a property). Comparing your situation to that of a tenant who lives paycheck to paycheck and may be unable afford rent while unemployed, through no fault of their own, seems rather insensitive in the current environment. 

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, EmseB said:

There is oversight in the bill? Loans to big businesses in this bill already restrict things like stock buybacks and increasing CEO pay. There's a whole section someone linked elsewhere that creates those rules. Unless it changed in the last 12 hours?

 

The current bill, LITERALLY, includes a separate 500B fund to be administered by the treasury department under the direction of Mnuchin (read:Trump) to be doled out to whatever corporations he deems fit. The bill requires disclosure up to 6 months after passage (hmm...what could be happening in 6 months?). The restrictions you describe are for SMALL businesses, not big ones. Negotiations are ongoing...as they should be. There's no reason to have a vote until a bipartisan consensus is achieved. This has only been on the legislators' FIVE ALARM radar for 3 weeks. They are moving at (Congressional) lightning speed.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Pawz4me]

22 minutes ago, EmseB said:

There is oversight in the bill? Loans to big businesses in this bill already restrict things like stock buybacks and increasing CEO pay. There's a whole section someone linked elsewhere that creates those rules. Unless it changed in the last 12 hours?

Also, instead of blocking the bill, allowing it to go forward with additional debate would have been seen as at least attempting to work together. But I've always said that Congress not being able to do stuff is a feature not a bug. I just don't want to hear how one side or the other is obstructionist at this point. That, to me, is hilarious in all this. As in, yes, legislators obstruct bills they don't want to pass for whatever reason. It's not inherently bad to be obstructionist, as this current kerfuffle reveals.

I believe there were several things in the bill that would have allowed the Treasury Department to waive the restrictions on buybacks.

It is (was?) a horrible bill in many respects. They need to get back to work with the goal of helping real people and small businesses.

[Sneezyone]

9 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

Don’t these corporations asking to be bailed out have millions( billions?) in assets that could be borrowed against? Zero percent interest? 

Bull crap that it’s all on one side, like EmseB said. It’s never just on one side.

 

They spent their cash on stock buybacks 18-12 months ago.

[mommyoffive]

Senate passes $2 trillion bill to blunt coronavirus pandemic’s economic impact, as households and businesses gasp for relief

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senate-passes-dollar2-trillion-bill-to-blunt-coronavirus-pandemics-economic-impact-as-households-and-businesses-gasp-for-relief/ar-BB11IFcA?ocid=spartandhp

[Scarlett]

Does anyone know how my dss18 will be considered?  The 2020 tax year is the first he will not be our dependent.....he has filed taxes the last two years....but we claimed him.  Will he be considered an adult?  

[Paige]

So they say if you made more in 2019 than 2018 you may have to pay some back. Has anyone heard of that? How much? DH made more in 2019 but I don’t know if it’s enough to qualify for the clawback. It makes me nervous to spend anything. Or what about the child credit for a kid who was 17 in 2018 but turned 18 mid 2019? Will they claw that back too? I wish there was a clawback calculator so we can know what to do.

[mommyoffive]

Just got this email from Kiplingers

 

The Senate relief bill that passed last night contains plenty of aid for folks impacted by the pandemic's economic hit. Adults who earned up to $75,000 ($150,000 for married couples filing jointly) last year will get $1,200. That payment is lower for singles making between $75,000 and $100,000 ($150,000 to $200,000 for couples), while earners above those thresholds get nothing. Parents of kids 16 and under get another $500 per child. Adult dependents will not receive a payment.

 

Payments are based on 2019 tax returns, or 2018 returns if you haven't filed for 2019 yet. Those who did not earn enough to file a tax return still qualify, but their money will likely be delayed as the IRS turns to other records, such as Social Security records. These folks could speed things up by filing a 2019 return quickly. Taxpayers whose bank accounts are already on file with the IRS will get their money fastest, in about three weeks. Otherwise, it will likely take a month or more.

The IRS will mail notices telling taxpayers how much and where the money was sent, thus allowing recipients to challenge or correct any errors.

Other tax-related breaks: Savers not yet of retirement age can withdraw up to $100,000 from retirement funds without penalty. Required minimum distributions from investment accounts for folks age 72 and up are waived temporarily, too.

 

Here is a calculator

https://www.kiplinger.com/tool/taxes/T023-S001-stimulus-check-calculator-2020/index.php?rid=EML-a_step_ahead&utm_source=a_step_ahead&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20200326-a_step_ahead&rmrecid=1883928744

[Frances]

5 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Does anyone know how my dss18 will be considered?  The 2020 tax year is the first he will not be our dependent.....he has filed taxes the last two years....but we claimed him.  Will he be considered an adult?  

From what is posted it looks like unfortunately your dss may get nothing. He’s too old to get it as a dependent (over 16) on your return and was a dependent in 2018 and 2019 which are the years it is based on (2018 if haven’t yet filed for 2019).

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Frances said:

From what is posted it looks like unfortunately your dss may get nothing. He’s too old to get it as a dependent (over 16) on your return and was a dependent in 2018 and 2019 which are the years it is based on (2018 if haven’t yet filed for 2019).

Well.  Darn.  ;/

[JustEm]

According to that calculator we will be getting quite a bit, which I'm not upset about.  I don't know that we need it necessarily but not knowing what the economy will do makes me glad we'll get something.  It will be a good cushion, on top of our small emergency fund, in case dh does get laid off once the magnitude of all this plays out.  If we end up not needing it,  I will spend it all on local small businesses that were hurt by this.

[hippiemamato3]

57 minutes ago, Frances said:

From what is posted it looks like unfortunately your dss may get nothing. He’s too old to get it as a dependent (over 16) on your return and was a dependent in 2018 and 2019 which are the years it is based on (2018 if haven’t yet filed for 2019).

That's my understanding also.

[Sneezyone]

4 hours ago, Paige said:

So they say if you made more in 2019 than 2018 you may have to pay some back. Has anyone heard of that? How much? DH made more in 2019 but I don’t know if it’s enough to qualify for the clawback. It makes me nervous to spend anything. Or what about the child credit for a kid who was 17 in 2018 but turned 18 mid 2019? Will they claw that back too? I wish there was a clawback calculator so we can know what to do.

 

I don't know for sure but I would imagine that provision only applies if your 2019 income (this year's return) is different enough to reduce your eligibility. If you remain under 150K for a married couple there should be no change.

[maize]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Does anyone know how my dss18 will be considered?  The 2020 tax year is the first he will not be our dependent.....he has filed taxes the last two years....but we claimed him.  Will he be considered an adult?  

You filed taxes already this year and claimed him for 2019?

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, maize said:

You filed taxes already this year and claimed him for 2019?

Yes. 

[ktgrok]

Well,since I last commented we are now looking at DH taking a 20-40% pay cut. So that money will be helpful. 

[mommyoffive]

9 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Well,since I last commented we are now looking at DH taking a 20-40% pay cut. So that money will be helpful. 

 

I am sorry. 

[Junie]

I hope that they find a way to get stimulus funding for all dependent children.  Dd17 is actually the one here who is losing income because of not working.  She's trying to save up money for college.  I know there are a lot of people her age in the same situation.

[maize]

9 minutes ago, Junie said:

I hope that they find a way to get stimulus funding for all dependent children.  Dd17 is actually the one here who is losing income because of not working.  She's trying to save up money for college.  I know there are a lot of people her age in the same situation.

I have wondered about this.

My oldest works for a martial arts studio, which of course is not open now. There was something about making funds available to small businesses so they could pay their employees; I'm wondering if that might apply to businesses like this?

[Junie]

12 minutes ago, maize said:

I have wondered about this.

My oldest works for a martial arts studio, which of course is not open now. There was something about making funds available to small businesses so they could pay their employees; I'm wondering if that might apply to businesses like this?

Well, my dd works at a large retail store, so she wouldn't be eligible for anything like that.

She is ok since she lives at home and has no expenses, but her college fund is going to take a little bit of a hit.

However, so many seniors this year have just had their senior year interrupted -- no proms, no graduations, etc. -- and now they are seemingly being left out of this, too.

[mommyoffive]

Trump signs it into law

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/newsworldpolitics/trump-signs-dollar2-trillion-coronavirus-bill-into-law-as-companies-and-households-brace-for-more-economic-pain/ar-BB11NlNe?ocid=spartanntp

[Murphy101]

19 hours ago, maize said:

I have wondered about this.

My oldest works for a martial arts studio, which of course is not open now. There was something about making funds available to small businesses so they could pay their employees; I'm wondering if that might apply to businesses like this?

My daughter was working 2 campus jobs at  college and now she’s home and not working.  I have no idea if she will qualify for anything.  She’s really worried this is wrecking her financial ability to return next fall.  Since her school didn’t even close campus until this past Tuesday, I’m kind of okay with her not going there since they either don’t give a poop about students or are idiots. But that doesn’t change that she still needs money for school and likely won’t have it.

My frustration is while I guess the stimulus is better than nothing it’s just a joke to me. The amount given to general citizen is so paltry I can’t imagine it’s going to keep any of them from going bankrupt.  For those unable to work from home, I can’t think they will even keep up on needs while stuck home. A one time check of $1000 is not enough to pay bills and buy food for 1-3 months.  For so many people that can barely pay their current bills, how are they going to make up back rent and utilities? 

And then there’s the medical bills that a only a few are going to be able to pay.

https://time.com/5806312/coronavirus-treatment-cost/

 

[ktgrok]

29 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

My daughter was working 2 campus jobs at  college and now she’s home and not working.  I have no idea if she will qualify for anything.  She’s really worried this is wrecking her financial ability to return next fall.  Since her school didn’t even close campus until this past Tuesday, I’m kind of okay with her not going there since they either don’t give a poop about students or are idiots. But that doesn’t change that she still needs money for school and likely won’t have it.

My frustration is while I guess the stimulus is better than nothing it’s just a joke to me. The amount given to general citizen is so paltry I can’t imagine it’s going to keep any of them from going bankrupt.  For those unable to work from home, I can’t think they will even keep up on needs while stuck home. A one time check of $1000 is not enough to pay bills and buy food for 1-3 months.  For so many people that can barely pay their current bills, how are they going to make up back rent and utilities? 

And then there’s the medical bills that a only a few are going to be able to pay.

https://time.com/5806312/coronavirus-treatment-cost/

 

This is true. We will get enough to cover the 40% loss in salary DH is likely going to take, but not for long. Maybe a few months. I haven't actually crunched the numbers yet - too scared. And we are in the lucky group. At least I can look to see if we can get forbearance for his student loan payments while this goes on, but I don't know for sure that we can if he's still getting 60% of his salary. 

And the health care costs are a huge issue. How are people going to cover health insurance if they are unemployed?  No one can truly afford Cobra - that one time payment would lbe wiped out by that alone - and with this virus, not having coverage is terrifying as well. 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

My daughter was working 2 campus jobs at  college and now she’s home and not working.  I have no idea if she will qualify for anything.  She’s really worried this is wrecking her financial ability to return next fall.  Since her school didn’t even close campus until this past Tuesday, I’m kind of okay with her not going there since they either don’t give a poop about students or are idiots. But that doesn’t change that she still needs money for school and likely won’t have it.

My frustration is while I guess the stimulus is better than nothing it’s just a joke to me. The amount given to general citizen is so paltry I can’t imagine it’s going to keep any of them from going bankrupt.  For those unable to work from home, I can’t think they will even keep up on needs while stuck home. A one time check of $1000 is not enough to pay bills and buy food for 1-3 months.  For so many people that can barely pay their current bills, how are they going to make up back rent and utilities? 

And then there’s the medical bills that a only a few are going to be able to pay.

https://time.com/5806312/coronavirus-treatment-cost/

 

The bill also greatly expands unemployment benefits, including eligibility, amount, and duration.  It will vary by state, but many people will be able to get $1k per week for 39 weeks. Some states, like mine, are also planning to increase Medicaid rolls by changing eligibility requirements.

[Murphy101]

29 minutes ago, Frances said:

The bill also greatly expands unemployment benefits, including eligibility, amount, and duration.  It will vary by state, but many people will be able to get $1k per week for 39 weeks. Some states, like mine, are also planning to increase Medicaid rolls by changing eligibility requirements.

 

Oklahoma never expanded Medicaid since 2013 and has not accepted federal assistance to do it and there's been no indication that gov Stitt will ever let it happen under him either.

A lot of this is going to widen state disparity that already exists.  I'm with Cuomo that this is going to end up pennies in the bucket, not because the bill isn't a crap tonne of money, but because it only superficially addresses the biggest problems and those problems are going to last a lot longer than 2-3 months.

[Condessa]

On 3/26/2020 at 9:09 AM, Scarlett said:

Does anyone know how my dss18 will be considered?  The 2020 tax year is the first he will not be our dependent.....he has filed taxes the last two years....but we claimed him.  Will he be considered an adult?  

 

He will get it next spring.  It is technically a tax credit for 2020, paid in advance.  When we all file our 2020 taxes, people who qualify this year but didn’t in 2018 or 2019 (or who qualify for more now than before) will receive it with their tax refund.  

The reverse is not true, though.  No one has to pay it back if they qualify for less on their 2020 taxes than previously.

[Frances]

18 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

 

Oklahoma never expanded Medicaid since 2013 and has not accepted federal assistance to do it and there's been no indication that gov Stitt will ever let it happen under him either.

A lot of this is going to widen state disparity that already exists.  I'm with Cuomo that this is going to end up pennies in the bucket, not because the bill isn't a crap tonne of money, but because it only superficially addresses the biggest problems and those problems are going to last a lot longer than 2-3 months.

Maybe there will be a silver lining and we will finally get some type of universal healthcare in the US.

[ktgrok]

16 hours ago, Frances said:

Maybe there will be a silver lining and we will finally get some type of universal healthcare in the US.

I think we are certainly being forced to confront in a large scale way the flaws with insurance tied to employement. 

[Robin M]

This is a bit of good news.   For those with existing small businesses with SBA Mortgage loans (which we have) the SBA is going to pay the mortgage for six months. No extension of loan term, no interest accrued.  Both Principal and Interest will be paid.   Breathing a small sigh of relief. 

"Debt Relief for Existing and New SBA Borrowers
The stimulus package includes $17 billion to provide immediate relief to small businesses through standard SBA 7(a), 504, or microloans. Under this provision, SBA will cover all loan payments for existing SBA borrowers, including principal, interest, and fees, for six months. This relief will also be available to new borrowers who take out an SBA loan within six months after March 27, 2020."