What do you think of disobeying evacuation orders? UPDATE OMG! They freakin lied!!

[sassenach]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

I know you weren't the only one who said this about first responders but yours was the last post I saw on the subject so I quoted you for context.

They won't. They're not allowed to. My stepson is a first responder (firefighter-paramedic). During our last two hurricanes, Matthew in 2016 and Irma in 2017, he was required to work. Their station in Cocoa Beach is new and quite solid. In fact, last year when Irma hit, the police from the precinct right next to their station came over and rode out the storm with them. Together they watched the roof fly off of the police station.

Anyway, he said they are not allowed to go out until it's safe. Winds have to be down to a certain speed and power lines have to be cleared. They received calls but as much as they wanted to respond, they weren't allowed. They had to tell the people," We're very sorry but we're unable to help you. We will be there as soon as it's deemed safe for us to go out."

ETA: Different states, cities, or counties might have different rules. In the county dss works for they cannot respond to calls until emergency management says it's safe for them to go out.

 

But wouldn't you say that first responders are still put at risk when they have to venture into torn up areas to fetch people after the storm has passed? I'm not sure we could ever call a rescue and recovery operation risk-free.

[katilac]

I think you should evacuate if you are able to do so. I can't even tell you how many times I have evacuated in my life. 

16 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I am sympathetic because not everyone has somewhere to go or the finances to just easily drive many hours and get a hotel.  

 

Yes. It's a big financial hit and the money just does not exist for some people. Then there are the people who have to weigh the danger of staying vs the danger of evacuating if a loved one is in poor health. Evacuations are long and stressful. 

15 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

And yet they ( and others ) will, whether their superiors require it or their ethics demand it. Sigh. 

 

Yes, they will. Even if they wanted to pick and choose their rescues, they have absolutely no way of knowing who stayed because they wanted to and who stayed because they had no choice.

13 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

True, but in those instances there are free rides to the local shelters, which are generally fairly close by. 

 

What sounds reasonable in theory has often proved to be disastrous in practice. See Houston, New Orleans, and other big cities that have massive numbers of people to evacuate. And, in cities like Houston and New Orleans, effective shelters often cannot really be local. 

13 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Right. Evacuation doesn't mean driving hours and hours for most people. It means leaving a low lying area to move to a higher one, or a less stable structure for a more stable one. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Again, evacuation can mean 10 miles, to a higher elevation, not hundreds of miles. 

 

 

This is why people have such different opinions; we have had massively different evacuation experiences. It does mean driving for hours and hours, every single time. It takes hours just to get to the edge of the city. It certainly doesn't mean driving 10 miles. We don't have much in the way of higher elevation; I live in a city that put a pile of dirt in a park so kids could see what a hill was, lol. 

Even if you can get to a point of relative safety in, say, five hours, keep on driving because even the skankiest of motels are full and there is nowhere to stay. 

Driving ten miles to a shelter? You live in Florida, right? It was only last year that Irma hit Florida, and they had horrific problems with shelters. People were turned away because shelters were full, because they had medical needs the shelter couldn't handle, shelters didn't have supplies, it was a nationally reported disaster. That's not unique to Florida by any means, but I think that's your state.

 

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Emergency Managers are trained and paid to identify these resources in advance. It’s not supposed to be some 11th hour panic. That’s why it’s called “planning”.

 

It's not supposed to be but it often is. I have seen failure at the local level (New Orleans, Houston, almost every city who hasn't had to implement a massive evacuation for a long time). I have seen failure at the federal level (New Orleans, Puerto Rico, I'm sure others). To be fair, it is always going to be massively difficult and complicated to move the population of a city to safety. Planning can minimize but not eradicate danger.  

If you haven't been through lengthy, expensive, and repeated evacuations it's difficult to explain how hard it can be. It can be insanely stressful, and that is for people with cars and resources and no health issues. I can't imagine how traumatic it might be for someone who doesn't have those resources and has to rely on the government and busses and shelters. 

I know the OP was asking about people truly choosing to stay, but a lot of the replies drifted into 'everyone should evacuate and it's not that hard to do so.' It is hard, and hardest of all for people with few resources and/or complicating issues. I hate evacuating with a burning passion, but I try to remember that it's hella easy for me compared to many people. Please don't blithely assume that people who stay are just being stubborn and thoughtless. 

[Carrie12345]

2 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

It's not supposed to be but it often is. I have seen failure at the local level (New Orleans, Houston, almost every city who hasn't had to implement a massive evacuation for a long time). I have seen failure at the federal level (New Orleans, Puerto Rico, I'm sure others). To be fair, it is always going to be massively difficult and complicated to move the population of a city to safety. Planning can minimize but not eradicate danger.  

 

I don't mean to imply that things could ever go 100% perfect. My own township sucks at overall emergency planning, imo.  (County is a bit better.) I've been taking the FEMA training, hoping to push for improvement. And also harassing my household's volunteer firefighters to push from within, lol.

I understand difficult. I don't understand not planning for difficult.

[Lanny]

Not having read the 63 replies, I agree with the OP that this is not wise.  I think that is incredibly stupid and dangerous. 

[prairiewindmomma]

PLEASE DON'T QUOTE AS I'M LIKELY TO COME EDIT OUT LATER FOR PRIVACY....

(which I did)

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by prairiewindmomma

[sheryl]

We have friends scattered around Wilmington/Wrightsville Beach/Pleasure Island (Carolina Beach, Kure Beach) areas.  Right now folks are staying.  Here's the problem with that though.  It's not simply "riding out" the hurricane which can be devastating enough but it's the after effects.  We have friends who live on Pleasure Island and 2 years ago (or whenever it was - recently) the whole of Wilmington and area was prone to heavy flooding b/c W is low-laying. They were literally locked in on the coast with no travel to the mainland because they were surrounded by water and roads impassable.  It could take a few days or weeks to recover; it all depends on the characteristics of the hurricane.

If they are vacationing, they should leave.  If they live there, they know the consequences. 

[Faith-manor]

My mother in law had to stay put during a mandatory hurricane evacuation many years ago. FIL was immobile, dying of cancer, on hospice, and at home. Hospitals were full or being evacuated. She had no where to take him, and couldn't have moved him by herself either. She talked to the sheriff's office, and they said they understood and would send someone over to check on them as soon as they could. The army corp of engineers showed up quite promptly after the worst was over, and tarped her house until the roof could be prepared. National Guard came also quite quickly and gave her water, MRE's, and asked if there were any medications they needed to secure for her, any meds that needed refrigeration, etc. They had portable generators and what not, and were trying to set up places where people without power could keep medications. One young guardsman was assigned to come back every few hours to check on them. We were so grateful! They were very worried about FIL dying in the home, and MIL not being able to get help.  We lived 1400 miles away and couldn't get to them.

It takes money to evacuate, and the assumption shouldn't be that everyone has the extra cash around to pay for gas, hotels, food on the road, etc. much less the ability. In low lying areas, often the need is to travel long distances, not just a matter of a few miles.

I really think that we don't have good plans in place for the mandatory evacuation of the homeless, low income, elderly, infirm, patients, prisoners, etc. It just isn't something that there has been enough planning for, and so it seems that FEMA is always operating from a "fly by the seat of their pants" kind of situation. That's how it feels, though obviously they do have a fair amount of action plans in place or things would be exponentially worse. They do a LOT of good work, but it could be so much better if our state and federal governments cared to invest more energy into it. I am always thankful for the National Guard. They seem to be more organized and definitely mobilize more quickly. They also seem to have more resources.

[katilac]

30 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

No one plans to keep an axe in their roof 

1

 

An axe in the attic is SOP for New Orleans. It's very common. 

[prairiewindmomma]

My point is even if they have an axe I don’t think they plan on using it and floating their kids out in Rubbermaid tubs. 

My friends with axes all thought a helicopter would come for them if they needed it.

 

[HomeAgain]

I've been keeping an eye on the news since I know a few people in mandatory evacuation zones (and even more in possible ones).  One of the stories today focused on a neighborhood where they were told to be out by 8am, and most of the people decided to stay put anyway.  The way out for them is not going to get any easier or better between now and the hurricane.  They're on the edges of the water and have some wicked traffic to get through on a good day, let alone now.

I just....I can't even.  Why??? They know this is going to be big!  I really want to have sympathy, but there are shelters open nearby they can go to if they can't leave the area.  There are even pet friendly shelters open. 

[Guest]

Bumping because I am SO MAD!!! See update, first post.

[maize]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

Bumping because I am SO MAD!!! See update, first post.

I read your update.

I'm sorry this is the kind of relatives you have. I'm curious to know your husband's response when he finds out since it is his sister. 

[Annie G]

I share your anger. Sure, they are adults and can do as they please, but man up and tell you that rather than lie about it.  They can say hey, we’ve decided not to evacuate and we don’t want to hear any lectures. that’s fine. But don’t lie. If something awful had happened to them....ugh. 

[lavender's green]

Your update has me grinding my teeth. Just WHY!?

[EmseB]

Something like that would put a serious rift in any relationship I may have had with those family members.

[prairiewindmomma]

Jaw DROPPED.

Yeah, that behavior would cause serious relationship issues.

[Terabith]

Wow.  I would be so furious.  I'm so sorry.  What a massive jerk your brother is!!!

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, lavender's green said:

Your update has me grinding my teeth. Just WHY!?

Seriously!  If you're going to lie to keep people from worrying, then why don't you KEEP LYING UNTIL THE DISASTER IS OVER????

[Starfish]

5 hours ago, Terabith said:

Seriously!  If you're going to lie to keep people from worrying, then why don't you KEEP LYING UNTIL THE DISASTER IS OVER????

 

Probably because of bragging rights.  I'd be angry like the OP but hopefully not admit to it -- and would probably fail miserably at that.  The next time a hurricane rolls around, I'd try to completely ignore their woes. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Starfish

[Liz CA]

I am glad to read that emergency personnel are ordered to stay put and not go after people who have ignored evacuation orders. I'd hate to think someone could lose their life because another person willy nilly decided it would be fun to watch the storm roll ashore. It's different when people are caught in something and need help. To me, anyway. Perhaps it's illogical and I cannot quite explain why either.

Quill, I am sorry BIL and SIL have resorted to lying. Would have been more mature to just say something like "this is the decision we made..." but perhaps maturity overall is an issue....? I am sure you are all worried about them and now you know you cannot even trust what they say.  Are forecasts for their areas predicting the worst is yet to come? Is there maybe a plan B?

Edited September 15, 2018 by Liz CA

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Starfish said:

 

Probably because of bragging rights.  I'd be angry like the OP but hopefully not admit to it -- and would probably fail miserably at that.  The next time a hurricane rolls around, I'd try to completely ignore their woes. 

Ah well the emotional game I’m playing in response is, “Fine. I won’t show you I care.” And I bet you are right with bragging rights. Also probably something of, “I was there!” desire for adventure. 

I told dh this morning (never saw him awake last night) and he is mad they lied too. He seems to have some glimmer of sympathy towards the idea of “going down with the ship,” (I don’t; I’m in camp people-are-not-replaceable), but he feels they should have just declared their intention to stay rather than lie. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Liz CA said:

I am glad to read that emergency personnel are ordered to stay put and not go after people who have ignored evacuation orders. I'd hate to think someone could lose their life because another person willy nilly decided it would be fun to watch the storm roll ashore. It's different when people are caught in something and need help. To me, anyway. Perhaps it's illogical and I cannot quite explain why either.

Quill, I am sorry BIL and SIL have resorted to lying. Would have been more mature to just say something like "this is the decision we made..." but perhaps maturity overall is an issue....? I am sure you are all worried about them and now you know you cannot even trust what they say.  Are forecasts for their areas predicting the worst is yet to come? Is there maybe a plan B?

I don’t know what they will do from this point. Dh will probably call his sister sometime soon and he is confrontational (while I’m not), so I expect him to confront her for lying. He is watching weather right now and they are talking about rescuing people from New Bern, which is near to their house. 

[prairiewindmomma]

It’s the lying that bothers me the most too. I’d think stupid things like, “Hope you don’t get hepatitis” or “Have fun ripping all of that drywall out before the mold kicks in” but I don’t know what I could actually say that wouldn’t totally escalate the situation, iykwim.

It’s their braggadocio that also make me raise my eyebrows...

[Liz CA]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

It’s the lying that bothers me the most too. I’d think stupid things like, “Hope you don’t get hepatitis” or “Have fun ripping all of that drywall out before the mold kicks in” but I don’t know what I could actually say that wouldn’t totally escalate the situation, iykwim.

It’s their braggadocio that also make me raise my eyebrows...

 

Yes, it reminds me of myself when I was a teenager, thinking what could possibly happen to me; I can survive anything. 

I know it's hard to leave all your belongings behind when you evacuate, not knowing if you are going to see any of it again, but your and your kids' lives are more important.

[Shoeless]

?  

I cannot imagine riding out a storm like Florence if you live in a coastal area. I, too, would be reflecting on the relationship I had with BIL and SIL, because of the lying AND because they lack good judgment.  

Edited October 4, 2020 by MissLemon

[mommyoffive]

18 hours ago, Annie G said:

I share your anger. Sure, they are adults and can do as they please, but man up and tell you that rather than lie about it.  They can say hey, we’ve decided not to evacuate and we don’t want to hear any lectures. that’s fine. But don’t lie. If something awful had happened to them....ugh. 

 

I agree on this!!

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Liz CA said:

 

Yes, it reminds me of myself when I was a teenager, thinking what could possibly happen to me; I can survive anything. 

I know it's hard to leave all your belongings behind when you evacuate, not knowing if you are going to see any of it again, but your and your kids' lives are more important.

They moved their horse and their boat to safety...and then drove back to a skinny bit of land surrounded by water. It just irks me so bad. I mean, of course I am happy the horse did not drown and boats can do a lot of damage when they break free and land on someone else’s front yard, but still...people are worth more than things. 

DH did not call. He said, “Well I wanted to at first, but really, what is it going to change? I’m mad they lied and I’m mad they stayed, but it doesn’t do any good to complain now.” 

He’s not wrong.