Thank you!

[fairfarmhand]

Thanks!

[Bluegoat]

I think maybe, at that age, I'd just lay it out there straight - that behaviour is not really appropriate with friends, it's the kind of things people do when trying to connect romantically - and even then might be dodgy.

I would kind of wonder though, if she doesn't know that at some level, because the desire for male attention often is what motivates that. 

[fairfarmhand]

3 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I would kind of wonder though, if she doesn't know that at some level, because the desire for male attention often is what motivates that. 

I’ve had the same thought but dislike judging motives.

[Scarlett]

9 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

So if a person in their early 20s expressed frustration and irritation that many times others perceive them as a flirt what would you do? 

This person behaves in ways that I would consider flirting even though she has a boyfriend. Close friends are used to it as “just her way” but those who don’t know her well think she’s a tease. Also she’s expressed sadness that several guys she considers “just friends “ were hurt when they asked her out and she said “I’m not interested like that.”

The behavior involves lots of touching, tickling, laying on young men (like on their shoulders or flopped across their laps), leaning on them, etc. 

this person genuinely is flustered that this  kind of drama is stirred up in her life multiple times and is oblivious that her behavior might be seen as a problem. 

Yes, it’s immature. Not sure how to force someone to behave maturely.

basically how does one spell out social norms and perceptions?

 

I agree to lay it out straight.  Not sure exactly what I would say...when my boys were 10 we gave them 'keep your hands to yourself' speech.  Early 20s seems like she would know what her actions are saying.  

[ashfern]

Has anyone explained to her that all of her behaviors are perceived as flirting, whether that's what she intends it's what is being perceived. Is she touchy-feely with all her friends or just the guys? Tickling and touching can be seen as intimate.

[fairfarmhand]

Deleted 

[fairfarmhand]

Just now, ashfern said:

Has anyone explained to her that all of her behaviors are perceived as flirting, whether that's what she intends it's what is being perceived. Is she touchy-feely with all her friends or just the guys? Tickling and touching can be seen as intimate.

Mostly guys if I recall although it’s not unusual around girls. Thing is that this person prefers hanging around guys to girls. 

[Bluegoat]

That sounds pretty reasonable - ask what she'd think if she saw adults she knows acting that way, and tell her that since she is an adult now, people think the same about her.  If she does that she will hurt peoples feelings or even get herself in trouble, whether or not her intent is good.

[Innisfree]

As a parent of one kid on the autism spectrum and another who is just past the diagnosable range, I'm reading this as difficulty understanding the social norms and expectations that actions carry. I know that may not apply to your situation. But-- I also know that when social thinking instruction is given to entire classes, including kids with and without diagnoses, teachers often find everyone benefits.

So, I'll offer two books from people who do very good work on this topic. I don't know either book, because my kids are younger, but I know most of their materials are extremely useful. They are purposely designed to be useful to people with and without various diagnoses.

https://www.socialthinking.com/Products/Socially Curious and Curiously Social A Social Thinking Guidebook for Bright Teens Young Adults

https://www.socialthinking.com/Products/GoodIntentionsAreNotGoodEnough

...and for some reason those links won't work right, but they will give you the website and titles. Pulling them up might be worthwhile. Hope you find something useful!

[katilac]

I'll be the outlier and say that, at 20, my friends and I did a lot of touching, lap sitting, and leaning. Males and females. No big deal whatsoever. Of course, social norms vary, but young people being flirtatious is hardly beyond the ken. I even have photos of me sitting on men's laps after I was married, and photos of women sitting on dh's laps. Not everyone brings out the smelling salts for that, lol. 

If it's something she does all the time, then I'm surprised a guy would take it as a particular sign of interest in him. Regardless, it doesn't matter: you ask someone out, they say no, you move on with life. And let me tell you how very much I hate the word "tease" and what it implies. The idea that a woman owes a man sexual activity or even a date because she flirted with him is absolutely disgusting. If you think that I am exaggerating, please take a moment and think of the word that precedes "tease" when one is not in polite company. 

I would try not to get sucked into the drama. A bunch of 20-somethings can handle this on their own. 

[Innisfree]

I think some of this depends on the norms in the group you hang out with, and wide variation will exist.

But if the op's dd finds that she's being misunderstood in her circle, it's worth explicitly making the point that, like it or not, people may interpret her actions that way. More than that may or may not be needed.

[fairfarmhand]

18 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

And let me tell you how very much I hate the word "tease" and what it implies. The idea that a woman owes a man sexual activity or even a date because she flirted with him is absolutely disgusting. If you think that I am exaggerating, please take a moment and think of the word that precedes "tease" when one is not in polite company. 

 

Perhaps I’m naive but I have no idea what this means. 

I’ve thought it was someone implying they were up for a relationship but really weren’t interested. 

Matbe there’s more that I’ve never heard?

this would not be on my radar except that the person is frustrated that these situations occur. 

And it’s not typical in our social circles for young women to be very touchy with guys they’re not interested in. 

There would indeed be swooning were my dh and I sitting on other people’s laps. ?

Which is why I’m framing it as social norms. Doesn’t matter if it’s acceptable some places. It’s out of the ordinary here. 

[SKL]

Like it or not, behaviors send a message based on what society generally means by it.

How about this example.  My 11yo has recently learned that the word "gay" has an old-fashioned meaning and a current meaning.  She has a male friend (12yo) who is always laughing and she told him he's gay.  He was hurt.  She said she meant the happy kind of gay.  We had a conversation.  People can't read minds.  You have to be careful what you do and say because they interpret your thoughts that way.  Explaining yourself later may be too late.

This topic comes up periodically in other contexts - "well we should be able to be ourselves and not worry about how others will interpret it."  I disagree.  When there is a generally accepted societal meaning for an action, that's the message you're sending, and it's on you to be clear.  If I walked around with my middle finger up because I like it that way, ... not gonna fly.

Random memory here - my mom used to say, "you can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose."  Hands to yourself unless you're in a much closer relationship.

[katilac]

18 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

I think some of this depends on the norms in the group you hang out with, and wide variation will exist.

But if the op's dd finds that she's being misunderstood in her circle, it's worth explicitly making the point that, like it or not, people may interpret her actions that way. More than that may or may not be needed.

 

I understood the OP to say that it has been pointed out to her, but it's a bit ambiguous. Yes, if they come to you, it's worth explicitly making the point that her actions don't fit the group norm and that this is how the group might be interpreting them. I was definitely assuming the person in question is not oblivious, but llnisfree makes a good point about possibly having some spectrum traits. 

2 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Perhaps I’m naive but I have no idea what this means. 

I’ve thought it was someone implying they were up for a relationship but really weren’t interested. 

Matbe there’s more that I’ve never heard?

this would not be on my radar except that the person is frustrated that these situations occur. 

And it’s not typical in our social circles for young women to be very touchy with guys they’re not interested in. 

There would indeed be swooning were my dh and I sitting on other people’s laps. ?

Which is why I’m framing it as social norms. Doesn’t matter if it’s acceptable some places. It’s out of the ordinary here. 

 

The full term is c*ck tease, and it means exactly what it sounds like. I promise you that every single guy who uses it knows the entire phrase. I honestly don't think it's much of an improvement if you could entirely remove the sexual connotation, because no one owes you a relationship or a date any more than they owe you sex.  Implying, suggesting, flirting, all are open to interpretation, not to mention a person is completely free to change their mind at any moment. Maybe I did want to go out with you yesterday, but then I heard you use the word tease and completely changed my mind, lol. 

Note that, imo, you can't entirely remove the sexual connotation, it is part and parcel of the phrase. It's never used in situations that will never lead to sex. It's very rarely used regarding men. It's a word used to imply that a woman owes something to a man. 

 

[Bluegoat]

54 minutes ago, katilac said:

I'll be the outlier and say that, at 20, my friends and I did a lot of touching, lap sitting, and leaning. Males and females. No big deal whatsoever. Of course, social norms vary, but young people being flirtatious is hardly beyond the ken. I even have photos of me sitting on men's laps after I was married, and photos of women sitting on dh's laps. Not everyone brings out the smelling salts for that, lol. 

If it's something she does all the time, then I'm surprised a guy would take it as a particular sign of interest in him. Regardless, it doesn't matter: you ask someone out, they say no, you move on with life. And let me tell you how very much I hate the word "tease" and what it implies. The idea that a woman owes a man sexual activity or even a date because she flirted with him is absolutely disgusting. If you think that I am exaggerating, please take a moment and think of the word that precedes "tease" when one is not in polite company. 

I would try not to get sucked into the drama. A bunch of 20-somethings can handle this on their own. 

 

It sounds like the daughter is the one unhappy though.  I'd also not interfere much, but if she seems confused about what's going on and unhappy, I'd mention its food for thought.  

I'm not so sure about the idea of a tease, I'd have never said it was implied that someone "owed" sexual access.  I'd have said it referred to someone doing things like being a flirt mainly to get an ego boost and attention, with no real interest in the person.  It's something that's very tempting to a lot of young people I think, pretty normal, but also rather unkind and I think it sells themselves short too.

[SKL]

13 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

It's a word used to imply that a woman owes something to a man. 

 

Interesting choice of words.  Puts all the blame on the man for a woman's intentionally dishonest / hurtful behavior.  Women aren't always victims.

To me, "tease" means you should expect to get nothing but frustration.  Otherwise it wouldn't be a "tease."

[katilac]

5 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

It sounds like the daughter is the one unhappy though. 

 

 

Oh, agreed, and the young person has a choice between adhering to the social norms or accepting the results. But I have a problem with young men who vocally express their 'hurt' (usually hurt pride and some anger) that someone isn't romantically interested in them. If you have been around her long enough to truly care, then you have seen her behave this way, so why would you interpret it as definite romantic interest in you? Declining a date should not be a big deal. You asked, the other person said no, move on. 

[fairfarmhand]

11 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

That sounds pretty reasonable - ask what she'd think if she saw adults she knows acting that way, and tell her that since she is an adult now, people think the same about her.  If she does that she will hurt peoples feelings or even get herself in trouble, whether or not her intent is good.

Deleted

[fairfarmhand]

deelte 

 

[fairfarmhand]

Deleted 

[Wheres Toto]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

I'll be the outlier and say that, at 20, my friends and I did a lot of touching, lap sitting, and leaning. Males and females. No big deal whatsoever. Of course, social norms vary, but young people being flirtatious is hardly beyond the ken. I even have photos of me sitting on men's laps after I was married, and photos of women sitting on dh's laps. Not everyone brings out the smelling salts for that, lol. 

If it's something she does all the time, then I'm surprised a guy would take it as a particular sign of interest in him. Regardless, it doesn't matter: you ask someone out, they say no, you move on with life. And let me tell you how very much I hate the word "tease" and what it implies. The idea that a woman owes a man sexual activity or even a date because she flirted with him is absolutely disgusting. If you think that I am exaggerating, please take a moment and think of the word that precedes "tease" when one is not in polite company. 

I would try not to get sucked into the drama. A bunch of 20-somethings can handle this on their own. 

 

1 hour ago, Innisfree said:

I think some of this depends on the norms in the group you hang out with, and wide variation will exist.

But if the op's dd finds that she's being misunderstood in her circle, it's worth explicitly making the point that, like it or not, people may interpret her actions that way. More than that may or may not be needed.

 

I agree with both of these.  This kind of behavior wouldn't be unusual in my dd's friends group when they were in high school and college.  It was understood to not mean anything by everyone in the group.

But, it sounds like the person in the original post is not behaving in a way expected in her peer group, and that she may have some other issues going on.

[katilac]

8 minutes ago, SKL said:

Interesting choice of words.  Puts all the blame on the man for a woman's intentionally dishonest / hurtful behavior.  

1

 

Puts all of what blame on the man? The man is not being blamed for anything. No one blames a man if he thinks a woman is interested and asks her out. 

 

[Bluegoat]

7 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

Oh, agreed, and the young person has a choice between adhering to the social norms or accepting the results. But I have a problem with young men who vocally express their 'hurt' (usually hurt pride and some anger) that someone isn't romantically interested in them. If you have been around her long enough to truly care, then you have seen her behave this way, so why would you interpret it as definite romantic interest in you? Declining a date should not be a big deal. You asked, the other person said no, move on. 

 

Well, some guys might, but not always, especially young guys.  And they might not be old friends.  Just kids in their group.  Heck, I dated a guy I was friends with, and I totally should have known he was incapable of not being a player, but I was still kind of hurt when that turned out to be the case.  i learned something about myself though.

In any case, I don't know if they are really making a fuss, but I think it's their prerogative to be hurt and probably a little embarrassed.  A lot of times young men are expected to be the ones to make an explicit romantic move, and they rely on these signals like flirting to decide if it's likely to be welcome, and so they don't feel like dorks.  Presumably he'll get over it, but also he'll have learned that some girls give confusing signals.

But from the position of the OPs daughter, I think the real question is wh she is acting that way, and what she needs to understand about her own motivations and how it affects others.

[SKL]

8 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

Puts all of what blame on the man? The man is not being blamed for anything. No one blames a man if he thinks a woman is interested and asks her out. 

 

The blame of alleged bad intentions / misogyny behind the use of the word "tease."

FTR I am not saying the person described in the OP is a tease, as the facts given state she does not intend to tease.  Teasing involves some level of intention IMO.  However, if she's told that doing xyz has a good chance of being interpreted as sexual intent, and she does xyz anyway, she is crossing the line.

And PS as for saying "tease" is not used for male behavior - maybe true - but we have other words describing the behavior of a man who takes actions associated with sexual intentions that are not welcomed.  Moreover it is kind of unfair how if a man does it, it is more likely to be considered a crime vs. when a woman does it.

[Bluegoat]

7 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

Puts all of what blame on the man? The man is not being blamed for anything. No one blames a man if he thinks a woman is interested and asks her out. 

 

 

It kind of sounded like you were criticizing his assumptions about her sexual availability.

[katilac]

41 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

These young men don’t do that. She finds out later through third parties that they were confused and thought she meant things she didn’t. 

 

Ah, so they don't flirt, but they do gossip, lol. 

Again, I do not understand why they think her actions mean something when she routinely acts that way. 

Barring spectrum issues all around, I question the sincerity of everyone's confusion. If she grew up in this environment and has had this brought up repeatedly, she might disagree with the social limitations but she should not be confused by them. Likewise, if they know her, they should not be hopelessly confused that her tickling them or sitting on their lap doesn't equal a romantic relationship. 

 

[katilac]

2 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

It kind of sounded like you were criticizing his assumptions about her sexual availability.

 

I would definitely criticize someone for making assumptions about someone else's sexual availability, in the sense that they don't get to be put out because the other person doesn't, uh, put out. 

[GoodGrief]

Not knowing the parties involved, it's hard to say what is going on.

The girl sounds like she is friendly and approachable, which may lead to her being asked on dates simply because she is nice and fun, easy to talk to. It may not have anything to do with the touching.

Gossip in the friend groups (and social media) can definitely blow these things out of proportion. I am definitely seeing this in my younger daughter's group of friends.

Is the girl asking for advice? She may want to just tell the stories to someone without input. I know the drama of romantic interplay is a constant huge topic among my daughter's friends. Of course, they are young high schoolers, but it sounds like this girl is somewhat emotionally young for her given age?

[fairfarmhand]

Deleted

[katilac]

25 minutes ago, SKL said:

The blame of alleged bad intentions / misogyny behind the use of the word "tease."

2

 

There are no "alleged" bad intentions behind the use of the word tease; there are no positive uses of the word. It can only be used in a negative manner. 

I blame any person, man or woman, who uses the word tease to refer to someone who declines a date, a romantic relationship, or a sexual encounter. Do I owe you something because I winked and grinned, or only when I tickle you? Such a gross idea.

 

[cuckoomamma]

Maybe the girl is conflicted about growing up and so wants to try out acting flirtatious but then doesn't want the responsibility of dealing with others' responses?  

I agree with the others that if she really was unhappy about the results, she'd make some adjustments to the way she interacts.  

I think it's hard to know if the girl is genuinely questioning or is a bit involved in her own drama.  

If she seemed to really be upset, I'd explain that those who are socially adept, pay attention to how their actions are received to see if they match what the intention was.  

 

 

[Pen]

Is there any way to film the behavior so that she can see it for  herself?

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Perhaps I’m naive but I have no idea what this means. 

I’ve thought it was someone implying they were up for a relationship but really weren’t interested. 

Matbe there’s more that I’ve never heard?

this would not be on my radar except that the person is frustrated that these situations occur. 

And it’s not typical in our social circles for young women to be very touchy with guys they’re not interested in. 

There would indeed be swooning were my dh and I sitting on other people’s laps. ?

Which is why I’m framing it as social norms. Doesn’t matter if it’s acceptable some places. It’s out of the ordinary here. 

LOL....the bolded is what I was thinking too.  I can't even imagine sitting in another man's lap.  

[Lecka]

I am concerned she is at risk of being taken advantage of.  If she is truly not aware then she won’t know when others’ actions are appropriate or not, either.  

This may be massive overkill, but I am linking a safety book by a speaker I saw at an autism conference a few years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1849058369/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8

There are other things available from Social Thinking as well, I saw some materials linked from there.  

[Pen]

It sounds like perhaps someone needs to tell her explicitly to keep her hands and body to herself except for with her own boyfriend. 

A man doing the same as you describe with a female might be accused of harassment not just being a tease. 

[fairfarmhand]

15 hours ago, Lecka said:

I am concerned she is at risk of being taken advantage of.  If she is truly not aware then she won’t know when others’ actions are appropriate or not, either.  

This may be massive overkill, but I am linking a safety book by a speaker I saw at an autism conference a few years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1849058369/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8

There are other things available from Social Thinking as well, I saw some materials linked from there.  

Deleted

[Katy]

3 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Mostly guys if I recall although it’s not unusual around girls. Thing is that this person prefers hanging around guys to girls. 

 

That isn't surprising.  Women her age don't like dolts who flirt with their boyfriends, and even if she's not conscious of why she's unliked, she must feel it.   Also there is no such thing as being an adult without the responsibility. You cannot have one without the other.

Is there any way she was abused or molested as a child?

[SKL]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

 

There are no "alleged" bad intentions behind the use of the word tease; there are no positive uses of the word. It can only be used in a negative manner. 

I blame any person, man or woman, who uses the word tease to refer to someone who declines a date, a romantic relationship, or a sexual encounter. Do I owe you something because I winked and grinned, or only when I tickle you? Such a gross idea.

 

Hmm, I was thinking the verb "tease," not the noun.  It does seem to have a different connotation.

Again, I don't see it as meaning anyone owes anything, except that the person doing the [intentional] teasing owes others more respect and consideration than s/he is giving them.

[ashfern]

2 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

She has extremely mixed feelings about being an adult. Sees it as boring and stodgy. Like to behave maturely you have to be dull. 

Like she wants the fun of adulthood without the responsibility. She thinks it’s great that she hangs out with her sisters friends (ages 15-17) more than friends her own age (almost 21)

takes pride in the fact that she looks younger than her age but also gets frustrated when people don’t take her seriously. 

Basically has very poor self awareness and doesn’t realize how others see her influences how theyll treat her. 

Is this the younger boys that she's doing this with? I can see them misunderstanding as that age group is just starting to really think about dating. What does the boyfriend think? When we were dating my DH didn't like me talking to an old male friend because we went out on a couple of dates.

[Pen]

ETA I wanted to edit my post above, but website was not allowing feature to edit right now for me. 

I don’t know what she has in terms of LDs or -isms , if any. But the behavior is what I would expect from something like Aspergers ASD  and I thus think it needs a hard rule to follow rather than trying to get her to learn social nuances. 

I agree with you that with the wrong male (or if alcohol were to decrease the male’s caution even for a usually nice guy) things could get ugly. 

[HS Mom in NC]

22 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

So if a person in their early 20s expressed frustration and irritation that many times others perceive them as a flirt what would you do? 

 Also she’s expressed sadness that several guys she considers “just friends “ were hurt when they asked her out and she said “I’m not interested like that.”

this person genuinely is flustered that this  kind of drama is stirred up in her life multiple times and is oblivious that her behavior might be seen as a problem.

Based on the bolded, she seems to be aware of a problem that involves her causing unintentional pain in friends and it bothers her on some level.  I would be direct. 

In our culture adults don't usually touch people they're not married to ETA: romantically involved with the way you're touching those men by leaning on them, tickling them, sitting on their laps, and laying on them.  That kind of touching is usually reserved for people who are romantically involved with each other, or for someone who isn't romantically involved with someone yet, but is signaling to the recipient that they would like to be romantically involved. It may not be your intention, but that's how it's received by most people here.  When people are trying to be friendly with each other when they aren't romantically interested, they limit physical contact to things like giving short hugs or maybe a quick peck on the cheek in greeting/leaving, hugging at a time of intense emotion, shaking hands in greeting/leaving, a quick pat on the back, or a squeeze of the hand.  

[Guest]

That’s a tough one. Honestly (and embarassingly), I was just like this in my teens. I did not realize what I was signaling. I did start to realize it a little bit when some guys in my upper teens directly called me a tease and one guy I actually did like at my job said he wasn’t interested in me because I was, “too obvious.” 

I have thought many times that I wish my mom or a friend or *somebody* had said I was doing this. My mother, though, somewhat encouraged this behavior because I think she got a kick out of guys fawning over her daughters. One of my sisters was also a big-time flirt and I remember my mom egging it on in a couple of situations. (Like, one time, there were two guys who were “competing” for my sister and my sister had them both over the house at once and my mom took a picture of her sitting on the couch between the two, with an arm over each of their shoulders and a little “devilish” look on her face.) 

I am overall much more blunt with my kids than my mom was and I think I would spell it out directly if this were my kid. In the case of the two guys on the couch, I would have later had a talk with my dd and said something like, “this isn’t cool. You’re using those two guys to stroke your own ego and it is not fair to them. Pick one and let the other go, or else pick neither and stop leading them both on.” 

I would tell my dd that teenaged boys interpret touching differently than she probably means and those things - tickling, laying, sitting on laps, etc. eill almost definitely in their minds mean you want to touch them and they will believe it is a hint for more intimate things to come. 

 

[Catwoman]

5 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

She has extremely mixed feelings about being an adult. Sees it as boring and stodgy. Like to behave maturely you have to be dull. 

Like she wants the fun of adulthood without the responsibility. She thinks it’s great that she hangs out with her sisters friends (ages 15-17) more than friends her own age (almost 21)

takes pride in the fact that she looks younger than her age but also gets frustrated when people don’t take her seriously. 

Basically has very poor self awareness and doesn’t realize how others see her influences how theyll treat her. 

 

Honestly, she sounds very immature and desperate for popularity. If she’s in her 20s and is behaving this way with 15-17yo boys, she really needs to stop. She is WAY too old to be hanging all over high school boys, and she could end up in trouble if a 15yo’s parents find out about it and decide to report her to the police. If we were discussing a man in his 20s hanging all over 15yo girls, people would be appalled. It’s not really any different just because she’s a grown woman and the boys are younger; she still shouldn’t be doing it. And if she is behaving this way with older guys and they are tired of her being so flirtatious and they find her actions to be confusing, eventually people may not want to be her friend any more.

If you and others have already spoken with her about this, and if she knows the boys view her as being a tease, yet she still hasn’t changed her behavior, she couldn’t be too upset about it. 

[Tap]

My guess....

She likes to be touched and tickled and hugged and for people to physically lay on her. It feels comforting, familiar and fun.  It is like a little kid, who climbs on their uncles lap and asks for a pony ride (bouncing up and down on the leg) or wants to play tickle monster.  For  a young child those are natural ways to interact with adults. Some people can separate this playful part of childhood away from grown up hormone-driven-playfulness. And some people don't.  

It seems like she hasn't figured out that those same actions with adult friends, aren't so innocent. Not because of the child like behavior, but because playful touching, tickling and laying on someone for adults, is quite often part of foreplay.   There is a shift in the teen/young adult years, when people have to realize that it isn't just about what the child-like person is getting out of the touching, but also what the person on the receiving end is getting out of the touching. The drive to mate is biologically there. It is more pronounced in some people, but almost everyone has it. People can't always control what hormones are released and what feelings different touches bring out. THEY CAN CONTROL THEIR ACTIONS and control what they allow their mind to think about those feelings.  Adults know that foreplay (not just heat-of-the-moment) often begins as flirting, light playful touching, and the mental perception of what the other person is thinking. 

It is kind of like the old idea of  rounding bases in making out.  There are steps in physical boundaries that are shared between two people in romantic situations. Those boundaries are often shared in a fairly reliable pattern. 

1. From the first light touches and holding/touching hands/arms.
2. Allowing physical space/ bubbles to be shared (sitting close, bodies touching, hugs, piggy back rides, tickling)
3. Purposeful intimate actions with clothes on/off
4. Sex in various forms.

I think she is not quite understanding that she is underestimating what feelings/thoughts those touches are bringing out in those young men, hence the asking out for dates.  And, others are even noticing that she is showing a physical familiarity with those men.  She also doesn't seem to understand that once couples go to more intimate actions of 3 and 4, they publicly are more comfortable with 1 and 2.   So outsiders are seeing 1 and 2, and thinking they are moving towards a romantic relationship,......or that there must be 3 or 4 going on, for 1 and 2 to be happening in public. 

She sounds like she is sweet and fun and just wants to bring innocent physical joy to other people (tickles/hugs etc).  She just doesn't understand that they aren't perceiving the same level of innocence she is intending.  Lots of people easily disconnect child-like fun from flirting/foreplay in two adults.......but not everyone.  That is why tickling/hugging/sitting on laps etc in the work place would be considered sexual harassment.  There is a line, and in adults, it can absolutely mean something else than child-like fun. 

[Pen]

6 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I’m not planning on bombarding this person with advice. That never works. I’m planning on waiting till it comes up.

this past weekend another awkward situation occurred and I began thinking “this again?!” Then I began exploring why these misunderstandings may be occurring. And a light bulb went on.

It’s not just the other guys. It’s other people going “wait. That’s not the boyfriend? Who is the boyfriend?” When you factor in siblings of young men who were confused and adults in organizations she’s a part of trying to keep drama from arising...it can get complicated.

i fully expect the topic to be presented in conversation. It’s the kind of thing that is discussed with me. I’ve just never made the connection before. So I plan on presenting it as “just something to consider that you might not have thought of before.” Not in a blaming way but in a “food for thought” way. 

I refuse to dwell on whether or not she likes the attention, enjoys toying with people, or whatnot. I’ll mention what is seen and how it can be perceived. I can’t speak about motives. 

 

I agree that motives should not be brought up by you. 

 

But I don’t think you need to wait for it to happen again. 

 

I think you could say something like “You know I was thinking about “ and bring it up when you next see her in a suitable location that would not make the discussion too much a public conversation. 

[fairfarmhand]

Deleted

[Pen]

5 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

This is exactly what I plan on doing. Two oddly similar situations have played out in a place she’s worked over the last two summers with folks she doesn’t know well. Like two years in a row. And I know it will come up soon because it’s led to drama. So I’ll lay it out there as “i wasn’t there but I have an idea about why this might keep happening.” 

 

I n most work situations keeping ones body away from other people except for a handshake is expected. 

[Lecka]

We had some (different) social skill issue with my son where a teacher ended up thinking ———— basically, he didn’t know what he should do to get along with other kids, so he did what he knew how to do.  

It was more about a lack of appropriate social skills, and adding that in, than subtracting the inappropriate behavior.  

It sounds like she doesn’t have her own friends. It sounds like she may have trouble with social skills preventing her from making and maintaining her own friendships.  

Anyway — some things remind me of a family member.