Musings about vegetables

[HSmomof2]

I am so curious what it tastes like to others because I truly do not get the allure. LOL

I must not have the gene because I love cilantro. Love the way it smells and tastes. To me it has a very fresh flavor. Dh and dd hate it, and also describe it tasting like soap.

[Guest]

In the case of guinea pigs I suspect it's much more because people overfeed pellets than because they overfeed veggies.

 

Groundhogs -- who knows? I'm guessing how or why they manage to get fat is genetic/evolutionary, as they need to fatten up for hibernation.

Well, some animals have a physiology that is meant to be fat and some have the opposite. Wild Cheetas don't get fat, no matter how much meat they eat; there are no skinny boars.

[Guest]

Reading threads like this always leads me to wonder how much about diet is acquired taste, often cultural.

 

In graduate school I had an Indonesian housemate would started the day with rice, veg, hot sauce--maybe leftover protein if some was available.

 

On a recent trip to Iceland, the breakfast spread at country hotels included crusty breads, boiled eggs, meats and cheeses, herring, lamb pate, greenhouse veg (cukes, peppers, tomatoes), Skyr, basic cereal. There was nothing inherently sweet other than jam. Compare that to an American hotel breakfast with colorful sweetened cereals, muffins, pastries, overly sweet yogurt, etc.

 

I am a fan of bitter which may be one reason that I love vegetables.

 

There is a lot of subtlety in produce. I sometimes wonder if the use (abuse) of salt in processed food has altered taste buds. Just rambling...

I wonder about these things, too, especially when adult siblings have different attitudes and presumed responses to their childhood food culture. So, Child A, might say, "When we were gorwing up, my parents never bought soda, except for maybe a special ocassion. We very rarely had candies or chips; we didn't snack on treats and only ate at meals...that why I didn't adopt those habits and now don't have any issues with snacks and treats." But the sibling of that adult might take that same experience and conclude, "...and so, I always felt deprived of having those treats that other kids had. Now that I have to power to buy soda and cookies, I buy them. I know it's not good for me, and I'm not skinny like my sibling, but I eat what I want and that makes me happy."

 

I find that so intriguing.

[Jane in NC]

I wonder about these things, too, especially when adult siblings have different attitudes and presumed responses to their childhood food culture. So, Child A, might say, "When we were gorwing up, my parents never bought soda, except for maybe a special ocassion. We very rarely had candies or chips; we didn't snack on treats and only ate at meals...that why I didn't adopt those habits and now don't have any issues with snacks and treats." But the sibling of that adult might take that same experience and conclude, "...and so, I always felt deprived of having those treats that other kids had. Now that I have to power to buy soda and cookies, I buy them. I know it's not good for me, and I'm not skinny like my sibling, but I eat what I want and that makes me happy."

 

I find that so intriguing.

 

As one of those kids who grew up in a household where soda was a "treat", I can report on the decades later preferences of my sibling and myself.  I despise soda--sweet beverages in general.  I drink black coffee, plain water or seltzer with a couple of drops of bitters.  My sister lives on Diet Coke.  I have no idea how she can drink the stuff. She fails to understand how I can drink black coffee. 

 

Obviously our tastes have evolved to where they are today.  Were we born with innate preferences or is it how we have lived our lives that have led to these preferences?

 

I am starting to think that tastes are cultivated. We certainly see this with our children so why not throughout our lives?

 

[creekland]

Are you natural early risers? Aside from not having an appetite for vegetables, I could not imagine cooking all this at 6am (and I consider myself a morning person). Which may be another reason vegetables are not a breakfast staple: because people don't want to get up even earlier to cook. 

 

I am.  The rest of my family is not.  However, this is why we have that typical breakfast when we aren't rushed.  It doesn't take me any longer than if hubby were to make pancakes.  The veggies are already in the fridge.  I just need to wash and cut.  I'm normally up at 5:30 and will be on the computer or outside until about 7ish.  Then I pause the news (on TV), cut, cook, and am eating well before 8.  I do the big prep (cutting the seeds out of peppers, etc) and hubby fixes his own afterward as he'll usually scramble the eggs with his veggies and put them in a tortilla wrap.

 

When I'm going to school I'll just do toast or toast and eggs to save time - occasionally cereal.

 

If there are leftovers (Chinese, pizza, etc), then those are automatically breakfast foods.  Those make breakfast super easy and tasty.  I love Moo Goo Gai Pan over rice for breakfast more than I like it for supper.

 

Reading threads like this always leads me to wonder how much about diet is acquired taste, often cultural. 

 

In graduate school I had an Indonesian housemate would started the day with rice, veg, hot sauce--maybe leftover protein if some was available.

 

On a recent trip to Iceland, the breakfast spread at country hotels included crusty breads, boiled eggs, meats and cheeses, herring, lamb pate, greenhouse veg (cukes, peppers, tomatoes), Skyr, basic cereal.  There was nothing inherently sweet other than jam. Compare that to an American hotel breakfast with colorful sweetened cereals, muffins, pastries, overly sweet yogurt, etc. 

 

I am a fan of bitter which may be one reason that I love vegetables.

 

There is a lot of subtlety in produce. I sometimes wonder if the use (abuse) of salt in processed food has altered taste buds.  Just rambling...

 

There are many "free" hotel breakfasts I can't eat at due to my not liking sweets.  Sweets are disgusting (to me) in general unless I'm in a rare mood.  Sweets for breakfast?  I'd rather go without.  I need a hotel breakfast to at least provide hard boiled eggs and wheat bread (preferably not the colored white bread).

 

If I ever eat waffles or pancakes or similar, it's for lunch or supper, not breakfast.  Even then, it's only a couple of times per year and it's definitely helpful if there's coconut mixed in.

 

ETA:  I will eat oranges, non-sweet apples, or any fruit other than bananas at a hotel breakfast if they look decent.  Usually it's oranges as they tend to carry Red Delicious apples (my least favorite variety).

 

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by creekland

[Jane in NC]

There are many "free" hotel breakfasts I can't eat at due to my not liking sweets.  Sweets are disgusting (to me) in general unless I'm in a rare mood.  Sweets for breakfast?  I'd rather go without.  I need a hotel breakfast to at least provide hard boiled eggs and wheat bread (preferably not the colored white bread).

 

If I ever eat waffles or pancakes or similar, it's for lunch or supper, not breakfast.  Even then, it's only a couple of times per year and it's definitely helpful if there's coconut mixed in.

 

ETA:  I will eat oranges, non-sweet apples, or any fruit other than bananas at a hotel breakfast if they look decent.  Usually it's oranges as they tend to carry Red Delicious apples (my least favorite variety).

 

Most commercially made sweets are disgusting to me but I like my homemade stuff. For example, yesterday I made a whole wheat/zucchini/pecan quick bread that is not terribly sweet.  

 

I had not given a second thought to the lack of sweets on the Icelandic breakfast buffets until we were in Reykjavik.  There our hotel had a side bar of sweet selections.  And it was there, among the hotel patrons, that I had a realization that I had not seen any obese people in Iceland until that day.  Granted, we were hiking on rugged terrain so most of the people I encountered during my stay in Iceland were outdoorsy types. I never saw a glass or can of soda during my stay.  Sure there was beer and wine with dinner.

 

Anecdotal, yes, but my experience gave me pause.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Gasp! You hate avocados and onions? Those are definitely my favorites. Yum yum.

 

Okay, I see what you mean about fresh veggies. Frozen isn't so bad, though, like spinach? Come to think of it, we only eat spinach that is frozen. Very easy to pop in a pan, season and eat.

 

I don't mind frozen.  Although I can't stand frozen spinach because I can't seem to find one that isn't just a pile of stems.  Fresh spinach is one thing I can get year round pretty easily though.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Most commercially made sweets are disgusting to me but I like my homemade stuff. For example, yesterday I made a whole wheat/zucchini/pecan quick bread that is not terribly sweet.  

 

I had not given a second thought to the lack of sweets on the Icelandic breakfast buffets until we were in Reykjavik.  There our hotel had a side bar of sweet selections.  And it was there, among the hotel patrons, that I had a realization that I had not seen any obese people in Iceland until that day.  Granted, we were hiking on rugged terrain so most of the people I encountered during my stay in Iceland were outdoorsy types. I never saw a glass or can of soda during my stay.  Sure there was beer and wine with dinner.

 

Anecdotal, yes, but my experience gave me pause.

 

 

So true.  Why do they make those things like that?!  Even store bakery baked goods are just disgustingly sweet. 

 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

I grew up eating sweet or sugared cereals for breakfast.

And what I really like is Braunschweiger on crackers.  Cheese on the side.  Lots of cold milk.

So I thought I was weird, as did the rest of my family, until I went to Germany, and lo and behold, a cold cut spread was considered 'traditional' at our little residence hotel, while the cereals were for the American GIs and their families staying there.

 

So I'm not weird.  I merely reflect my ethnicity.  That is all.

[regentrude]

I am.  The rest of my family is not.  However, this is why we have that typical breakfast when we aren't rushed.  It doesn't take me any longer than if hubby were to make pancakes.  The veggies are already in the fridge.  I just need to wash and cut.  I'm normally up at 5:30 and will be on the computer or outside until about 7ish.  Then I pause the news (on TV), cut, cook, and am eating well before 8.  I do the big prep (cutting the seeds out of peppers, etc) and hubby fixes his own afterward as he'll usually scramble the eggs with his veggies and put them in a tortilla wrap.

 

When I'm going to school I'll just do toast or toast and eggs to save time - occasionally cereal.

 

OK, that makes sense. I have to be on campus at 7:40am, so nope, not cooking. Anything that's ready to eat in one minute is not happening.

[creekland]

OK, that makes sense. I have to be on campus at 7:40am, so nope, not cooking. Anything that's ready to eat in one minute is not happening.

 

I'm usually on campus around 6:55am leaving my house at 6:45.  Our first class starts at 7:30 and I want to set everything up first along with morning chats with fellow teachers.  Breakfast is definitely quick on those days (and eaten while watching the local news top stories & weather).  But I don't work every day, so on the others we tend to relax and have our larger meals at breakfast and lunch (if hubby is around).  I prefer a really light supper.

[MomsintheGarden]

As for keeping veggies, the worst for me is fresh lettuce or greens. They are good for a couple hours after you pick them. Then they are wilted and just look like a pile of grass clippings.

 

I am able to keep my picked garden-grown lettuce fresh for up to two weeks.  I pick gently to not bruise the leaves or cut the whole head with a knife.  Then I take it to the kitchen immediately.  I use two plastic dishpans for washing, putting them in both sides of my divided kitchen sink.  I fill one about halfway with cool water and dunk the leaves in it, gently shaking the dirt from them as I do that.  Then I carefully swish the leaves in the water and transfer them to the other dishpan.  I repeat the washing once or twice more.  Then I spin the leaves.

 

I have found the sweet spot in our two refrigerators to be the top shelf of our garage fridge, except in winter, when it sometimes freezes.  Greens keep well for me in ziploc type gallon or two gallon bags with just a bit of air in them (not smushed).  We usually eat our lettuce before two weeks have passed, but sometimes I pick a lot because of the weather or special party, and it lasts a long time when handled this way. 

 

Our greens seem to last a lot longer than the those we get from the store - but I hardly ever buy lettuce because one of my first garden priorities is to try to have salad greens from the garden all year long.  Today for lunch I harvested some of the last heat-tolerant lettuce (Magenta, my favorite) I planted on the north side of our house.  That will be used up in a couple of weeks.  After I finish this post I am heading out to the east side of our house to tuck in about 70 lettuce plants (Park Seed's Summer Glory Blend) into the flower beds.  Kept watered and weeded (and hopefully without the groundhog or deer eating it), today's transplanting will feed us for the next couple of months.

 

Later today I'll start a couple of trays of more Magenta lettuce and keep them on the north side of the house.  In August I'll start regular season lettuce again (the spring stuff, most varieties fall in this category).  I'll continue to start lettuces through September, ending with the cold-tolerant ones like Bronze Beauty and Winter Density (and anything with Winter or Arctic in its name).  The September lettuces will go into a coldframe, low tunnel, or hoop house.

 

In short, plant the right varieties for the season, handle carefully, wash immediately in cool water, and store in the best spot.

[Guest]

That's really impressive, Momsinthegarden!

[Carol in Cal.]

Also, eat in order of fragility.

 

First arugula, then endive, then romaine, then raddiccio,  then tomatoes, then cabbage.  For instance.

[ktgrok]

I do think tastebuds have at least as much to do with it as conditioning. I got those chemically treated papers you can order, that taste HORRIBLY bitter to me and one of my kids, and have ZERO taste to the rest of the family. That's not conditioning, at that level. 

[Guest]

I do think tastebuds have at least as much to do with it as conditioning. I got those chemically treated papers you can order, that taste HORRIBLY bitter to me and one of my kids, and have ZERO taste to the rest of the family. That's not conditioning, at that level.

Haha... yes! I had a homework assignment in 7th grade. We were to do a Punnet square by tasting those papers. I immediately spat it out and started gagging and sputtering. My mother chewed thoughtfully on the paper and asked me, "Am I supposed to taste something?"

[Jane in NC]

My point though is that some people may find bitter to be unpleasant whereas I enjoy bitter things. (Anyone want to join me for some Campari--straight? This aperitif is my favorite adult beverage.) I suspect that I find overly sweet things to be as repulsive as Katie and Karen find bitter things to be.

 

According to Google, my love of bitter may mean I am a psychopath -- or it may mean that I have a better chance of preventing cancer. 

 

Don't make me eat grocery store birthday cake or drink a Coke. I'd rather have radishes, Brussel sprouts and mizuna.

 

ETA:  Nice NPR article on why some of us like bitter foods:

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/10/01/352771618/from-kale-to-pale-ale-a-love-of-bitter-may-be-in-your-genes

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Jane in NC

[ktgrok]

My point though is that some people may find bitter to be unpleasant whereas I enjoy bitter things. (Anyone want to join me for some Campari--straight? This aperitif is my favorite adult beverage.) I suspect that I find overly sweet things to be as repulsive as Katie and Karen find bitter things to be.

 

According to Google, my love of bitter may mean I am a psychopath -- or it may mean that I have a better chance of preventing cancer. 

 

Don't make me eat grocery store birthday cake or drink a Coke. I'd rather have radishes, Brussel sprouts and mizuna.

 

ETA:  Nice NPR article on why some of us like bitter foods:

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/10/01/352771618/from-kale-to-pale-ale-a-love-of-bitter-may-be-in-your-genes

 

But are you tasting a lower level of bitter than we are? Or do you like it better, at the same level? That's what I'm wondering. My husband says he likes bitter. He loves drinks with bitters in them, he loves brussel sprouts, etc. I just thought it was weird he liked bitter so much more than me. Then we did that test with the papers and he couldn't taste it at all. I was gagging and spitting. So yeah, we don't taste things at the same level. What I call bitter and what he calls bitter are not the same thing I think. 

[Jane in NC]

But are you tasting a lower level of bitter than we are? Or do you like it better, at the same level? That's what I'm wondering. My husband says he likes bitter. He loves drinks with bitters in them, he loves brussel sprouts, etc. I just thought it was weird he liked bitter so much more than me. Then we did that test with the papers and he couldn't taste it at all. I was gagging and spitting. So yeah, we don't taste things at the same level. What I call bitter and what he calls bitter are not the same thing I think. 

 

And those indeed are the unanswered questions.

 

Consider beets.  My husband says they are sweet.  I agree that roasted baby beets or golden beets are sweet but beets that are larger than the baby ones are not sweet to me--they are earthy in a way that I don't find to be particularly pleasant. Mind you, I don't think they are unpleasant, they just don't thrill me the way that beets thrill him. One veg, two people who experience them differently.

 

Apparently I failed in the homeschool journey having not utilized the test papers you mentioned.  So I can't answer that question.

 

What about umami?  Do you and your husband have different reactions?

 

 

 

 

[creekland]

But are you tasting a lower level of bitter than we are? Or do you like it better, at the same level? That's what I'm wondering. My husband says he likes bitter. He loves drinks with bitters in them, he loves brussel sprouts, etc. I just thought it was weird he liked bitter so much more than me. Then we did that test with the papers and he couldn't taste it at all. I was gagging and spitting. So yeah, we don't taste things at the same level. What I call bitter and what he calls bitter are not the same thing I think. 

 

I think it's different taste buds when it comes to things like that.  Hubby can't tell Coke from Dr. Pepper.  Most of us can.  That has to be different taste buds.

 

However, friends of ours adopted infants from Vietnam.  They took them there on a trip not too long ago only to find they (the kids) didn't like any of the food there.  Had they been raised in Vietnam, I doubt they would have starved to death.  That has to be conditioning.

[LMD]

Actually, food is one of the few quick pleasures it's easy to come by if you are low income. You can't go away on a holiday, or take the kids to the circus, but you can bring home a tub of ice cream!

 

We splash out on mangoes for our summer treat, which is healthier than candy, but only because we've got just enough to splash out on a box. Some people don't have that wriggle room in their budget, but they do have a couple of bucks for something sweet or fatty, or even better, both!

Yes! Which is one reason that sugar/fat taxes unfairly target low income folks. I can't afford to take all 4 of my kids to the cinema ($50+) but I can rent a movie and get some chips and ice cream for $10.

 

We actually do eat a lot of veg, and grow our own, we generally have a vegetable based salad or soup as a main meal everyday. My kids have a daily snack bowl with carrot, cucumber, apple and usually a prune. No other snacks until it's empty - one of mine would live on strawberry jam ontoast otherwise!

[Guest]

My point though is that some people may find bitter to be unpleasant whereas I enjoy bitter things. (Anyone want to join me for some Campari--straight? This aperitif is my favorite adult beverage.) I suspect that I find overly sweet things to be as repulsive as Katie and Karen find bitter things to be.

 

According to Google, my love of bitter may mean I am a psychopath -- or it may mean that I have a better chance of preventing cancer.

 

Don't make me eat grocery store birthday cake or drink a Coke. I'd rather have radishes, Brussel sprouts and mizuna.

 

ETA: Nice NPR article on why some of us like bitter foods:

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/10/01/352771618/from-kale-to-pale-ale-a-love-of-bitter-may-be-in-your-genes

Yeah well...eck to those. Those sugar roses...blah. I love a fresh radish. I didn't plant any this year. Je regrette.

[Guest]

But are you tasting a lower level of bitter than we are? Or do you like it better, at the same level? That's what I'm wondering. My husband says he likes bitter. He loves drinks with bitters in them, he loves brussel sprouts, etc. I just thought it was weird he liked bitter so much more than me. Then we did that test with the papers and he couldn't taste it at all. I was gagging and spitting. So yeah, we don't taste things at the same level. What I call bitter and what he calls bitter are not the same thing I think.

I wonder this, too, in addition to wondering how much of it is conditioning and how much is a physical difference. I did not like many bitter vegetables when I was a kid, but also, my family didn't make them fresh. Once I was grown, I discovered how delicious an asparagus could be, or brussels sprouts or whatever. But my kids also grew up eating them as standard meal fare and they always ate them just fine. It's also amazing just how easy my kids were about eating. There are shades of difference; one kid pretty much always ate every single food ever offfered, while one other was a little pickier, but overall, no real food battles in our household pretty much ever. I don't know if that was my magnificent parenting (haha) or if I just lucked out in the kids and foods lottery.

 

My two oldest kids eat practically everything they are ever offered. They only have around two or three items they don't like each.

 

Adding: I just asked my kids about their dislikes. Kid#1 said no to: clams/mussels/oysters, peas, raisens, olives Kid#2 said no to: sweet potatoes, olives. Kid#3 (the "pickiest" but not by much) said no to: clams/mussels/oysters/scallops, shrimp, mushrooms, olives, squash, pork chops.

[ktgrok]

And those indeed are the unanswered questions.

 

Consider beets.  My husband says they are sweet.  I agree that roasted baby beets or golden beets are sweet but beets that are larger than the baby ones are not sweet to me--they are earthy in a way that I don't find to be particularly pleasant. Mind you, I don't think they are unpleasant, they just don't thrill me the way that beets thrill him. One veg, two people who experience them differently.

 

Apparently I failed in the homeschool journey having not utilized the test papers you mentioned.  So I can't answer that question.

 

What about umami?  Do you and your husband have different reactions?

 

We both thinks beets taste like dirt :)

 

Not sure about umami, I may like it more than him. Maybe. We both like meat and mushrooms and such a lot. 

 

Edited to add: He likes sweeter things than i do, by far. Things he thinks are delicious are too sweet for me. I can also taste food dyes, and he can't. 

SaveSave

Edited July 11, 2017 by ktgrok

[Katy]

So I've read those parenting/food books about how the French get their kids to eat things adults rarely bother tasting here.  It's their food rules.  Starting in preschool  - you don't have to eat it, but you do have to taste it, and taste means three bites. When you've tried something between 3-12 times, you'll start to like it.

 

I've used the same rules with DH and the kids in our home (including foster kids who refuse anything but McDonald's Chicken Nuggets), and I have yet to find one person that didn't exponentially expand their palettes in less than a month. Even resistant kids who I suspect have sensory issues this works on.  I've read here about kids who gag at certain textures, and I have no idea if it would work with kids like that, so YMMV, but I think that for most people when your brain realizes this taste you're disgusted by didn't poison you, it starts to taste good.

 

I also suspect there is some biochemical signals there that we don't yet recognize, because the foods this doesn't work for are inevitably ones we find out the kid has an allergy to later.  Kids either LOVE or HATE their allergy foods, despite conditioning.  The difference seems to be whether the foods naturally have opiates (wheat, dairy, etc).

[regentrude]

So I've read those parenting/food books about how the French get their kids to eat things adults rarely bother tasting here.  It's their food rules.  Starting in preschool  - you don't have to eat it, but you do have to taste it, and taste means three bites. When you've tried something between 3-12 times, you'll start to like it.

 

I've used the same rules with DH and the kids in our home (including foster kids who refuse anything but McDonald's Chicken Nuggets), and I have yet to find one person that didn't exponentially expand their palettes in less than a month. Even resistant kids who I suspect have sensory issues this works on.  I've read here about kids who gag at certain textures, and I have no idea if it would work with kids like that, so YMMV, but I think that for most people when your brain realizes this taste you're disgusted by didn't poison you, it starts to taste good.

 

I also suspect there is some biochemical signals there that we don't yet recognize, because the foods this doesn't work for are inevitably ones we find out the kid has an allergy to later.  Kids either LOVE or HATE their allergy foods, despite conditioning.  The difference seems to be whether the foods naturally have opiates (wheat, dairy, etc).

 

How do you force a kid who refuses to try the food? Who won't give in to your rules and does not respond to bribing, coaxing, threats?

 

I guess we parents of seriously picky eaters are simply doing it wrong.

[MomsintheGarden]

That's really impressive, Momsinthegarden!

 

Thanks!

 

Notice I said that I try.  Things don't always work out perfectly, that's for sure!  Gardening is a very humbling activity.  :)

 

[KungFuPanda]

I do think tastebuds have at least as much to do with it as conditioning. I got those chemically treated papers you can order, that taste HORRIBLY bitter to me and one of my kids, and have ZERO taste to the rest of the family. That's not conditioning, at that level.

 

Ugh, those papers are the worst. That flavor binds to my tongue and lingers there until I can find something to eat to wash it away. Diet soda does the same thing the few times it's been accidentally served to me. The bitter just coats my tongue and lingers. I actually like bitter herbs and lettuces. I like grapefruit, but I've been very recently informed that it's not that bitter??? Seriously? How did nobody tell me this sooner. Some things like coffee, beer, radishes, stevia, and brussle sprouts are too bitter to ever enjoy. Even a little coffee can ruin a dessert. I did once drink a little cold brew chicory in a bunch of milk. That was drinkable. I once tried an eel that was straight bitterness and DH acted like I was crazy. I also HATE when people oversteep tea or add baking soda to iced tea. Baking soda doesn't taste bitter, but it's very distinctive and makes fresh tea taste like too-old nasty tea.

[ktgrok]

I can now eat brussels sprouts if they are cut in half at least, and roasted until basically burnt. That seems to take away enough bitterness for me to eat them, if they are salted well. Grapefruit sure tastes horribly bitter to me, but okay with sugar on it :)  Same with coffee...great with enough sweetener. Undrinkable black. Overbrewed iced tea is undrinkable. 

 

The worst though was when my husband had me taste Unicum...a hungarian bitter alcohol. I swear to you, it was DAYS before I forgave him. I nearly broke up with him over it..it was that bad. i couldn't imagine why anyone would EVER let someone drink that, let alone someone they love. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicum

[alisoncooks]

I can now eat brussels sprouts if they are cut in half at least, and roasted until basically burnt. That seems to take away enough bitterness for me to eat them, if they are salted well.

Not to go too off-topic... But this week I had the best Brussels sprouts. They were Steamfresh brand, I think. Sea salt and cracked black pepper flavor. Maybe had a hint of lemon. Very flavorful, even my picky oldest ate them up.

[cjzimmer1]

Ugh, those papers are the worst. That flavor binds to my tongue and lingers there until I can find something to eat to wash it away. Diet soda does the same thing the few times it's been accidentally served to me. The bitter just coats my tongue and lingers. I actually like bitter herbs and lettuces. I like grapefruit, but I've been very recently informed that it's not that bitter??? Seriously? How did nobody tell me this sooner. Some things like coffee, beer, radishes, stevia, and brussle sprouts are too bitter to ever enjoy. Even a little coffee can ruin a dessert. I did once drink a little cold brew chicory in a bunch of milk. That was drinkable. I once tried an eel that was straight bitterness and DH acted like I was crazy. I also HATE when people oversteep tea or add baking soda to iced tea. Baking soda doesn't taste bitter, but it's very distinctive and makes fresh tea taste like too-old nasty tea.

I have no idea what these papers everyone is talking about are but I find it interesting how different people are describing things.  I would never consider grapefruit as bitter.  To me it's sour like a lemon or a lime.

 

Radishes are spicy (and that's a good thing especially with a little salt), coffee tastes like mud, and brussel sprouts are good anyway you prepare them but boiled.  

 

I've had things that I would call bitter (but of course I can't think of anything specific at the moment) but none of the things you mentioned would even be on my radar as something that would taste bitter to people.

 

I never really thought about it before but this is quite an interesting topic on how very different people perceives tastes.

Edited July 11, 2017 by cjzimmer1

[Arcadia]

The only vegetable dish I won't mind for breakfast is a spinach quiche or spinach lasagna. I tend to gag on leafy vegetables and also am more anemic every time I was vegetarian. Not great at processing iron from vegetables.

 

I like vegetarian stir fry for lunch and dinner and I like steamed corn. I used to eat so much carrots my skin turn jaundiced looking. Papaya gives me the same problem as too much carrots.

 

My husband eats certain leafy vegetables. He goes for whatever is cheapest per pound. My kids are picky eaters. My DS12 is a heavy milk drinker and cheese eater, and eats vegetables sparingly.

 

I was infamous for being a puker to the extent of puking out water in elementary school. I ended up drinking milk as a water substitute. DS12 also drinks a lot more milk than water.

[Bluegoat]

So I've read those parenting/food books about how the French get their kids to eat things adults rarely bother tasting here.  It's their food rules.  Starting in preschool  - you don't have to eat it, but you do have to taste it, and taste means three bites. When you've tried something between 3-12 times, you'll start to like it.

 

I've used the same rules with DH and the kids in our home (including foster kids who refuse anything but McDonald's Chicken Nuggets), and I have yet to find one person that didn't exponentially expand their palettes in less than a month. Even resistant kids who I suspect have sensory issues this works on.  I've read here about kids who gag at certain textures, and I have no idea if it would work with kids like that, so YMMV, but I think that for most people when your brain realizes this taste you're disgusted by didn't poison you, it starts to taste good.

 

I also suspect there is some biochemical signals there that we don't yet recognize, because the foods this doesn't work for are inevitably ones we find out the kid has an allergy to later.  Kids either LOVE or HATE their allergy foods, despite conditioning.  The difference seems to be whether the foods naturally have opiates (wheat, dairy, etc).

 

I think there is a certain logic to this.  Being turned off of bad tastes because it protects you from poisoning.  OTOH, avoiding foods that really are nourishing means that you are limiting your food sources and will have to spend more energy finding food, or maybe even go hungry.

[Bluegoat]

How do you force a kid who refuses to try the food? Who won't give in to your rules and does not respond to bribing, coaxing, threats?

 

I guess we parents of seriously picky eaters are simply doing it wrong.

 

She didn't say that.

 

She said it had worked for her in her experience, and she suspected that for MOST people, trying things a certain amount of times made a significant difference.

 

Presumably she isn't actually lying, and it seems like a reasonable theory.

 

As for how she gets them to try things the three times, yes, that is a good question.  And it's entirely possible she has a good technique for this that works really well.  That isn't some kind of slam on someone for whom the same thing wouldn't work, or even someone who never thought of it or just couldn't get it to work.  Some people are talented at such things, just like anything else.

[Katy]

How do you force a kid who refuses to try the food? Who won't give in to your rules and does not respond to bribing, coaxing, threats?

 

I guess we parents of seriously picky eaters are simply doing it wrong.

 

Well again, I don't have kids with particularly bad sensory issues.  I have a friend whose child had severe cleft palate with many surgeries and has a narrowed throat as a result. He is very picky about foods - he's had enough choking incidents there is legitimate fear there.  I don't know I would force the issue with that type of child.  Just make sure their tummy is full with healthier things they will eat.

 

But for most kids - I start with mild foods I'm pretty sure they'd like if they gave them enough chances - apple slices, fresh steamed green beans, corn on the cob, sweet pepper strips, cauliflower, peaches, mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes, ants on a log, smoothies made with spinach and frozen blueberries, etc.  Don't start with broccoli or more strong/bitter flavors. When they are used to liking most things you give them the 1st-3rd time they tasted them, they start to trust you more. They can have dessert if they taste the new foods (3 bites) and eat a serving of the foods they've liked before. 

 

Their favorite dessert, right in front of their eyes, being eaten by siblings, helps a lot. No TV on during meals helps a lot.  It's probable having a lot of kids in the home helps a lot - positive peer pressure.  The *most important* thing I've found with this is to be consistent.  As in, no exceptions when you are there, even on special occasions when every other kid at a party is eating cookies, they cannot have one until they have 3 bites of everything you put on their plate. Other people think I am crazy for this, but it works.  In the last week I've literally had a kid in tears over refusing to try steamed broccoli, and two days later she was asking for more steamed broccoli and commenting that she used to think it was gross but now she thinks it is really good.

 

Oh, another thing we do is require them to leave the table and go to their bedroom to calm down if they're going to have a tantrum about food. They will not inflict a tantrum on the rest of the family, and we will not listen to yelling, screaming, or whining because there is a food on their plate they don't want to try.  We also don't care if they want to go to bed for the night and skip dinner entirely, but they will not get any more food until breakfast the next day if they make that choice, and they will not be running around the house playing while other people are eating politely. Their choice is to sit here politely and eat or go to bed. If they are really upset at the sight of a food they may go to bed for a few minutes to calm down enough to politely come back to the table. IME every kid chooses bed for the night at least twice, but never do it again unless they are actually sick. After that they'll sit and eat the things on their plates they do like, and simply skip dessert if they refuse to taste something on their plate.

 

Particularly resistant kids earn prizes like stickers or dollar store/party favor junk for trying new foods.

[Zinnia]

I eat very fast b/c I have had a baby or toddler to cater to or chase for a solid 12 years..I also shower fast :) I enjoy food very much, and showers - I just enjoy the in a hurry.

Before my years of baby/toddlerhood, I was a nurse. I eat super fast, and it's a hard habit to break!

[SparklyUnicorn]

How do you force a kid who refuses to try the food? Who won't give in to your rules and does not respond to bribing, coaxing, threats?

 

I guess we parents of seriously picky eaters are simply doing it wrong.

 

You abuse them of course. 

 

Anyone who says otherwise is lying or does not have a seriously picky kid.

 

Seeing my parents go through this with a sibling and now me going through it with a kid it's a highly frustrating and difficult situation.  My parents didn't handle it well.  I vowed to not make the same mistakes.  I didn't want to continue to live like that!

 

I'm so so SO tired of the holier than thou comments from people who have NO DAMN CLUE. 

Edited July 11, 2017 by SparklyUnicorn

[Kassia]

I am a very picky eater and hate almost all vegetables.  I pretty much eat like a toddler and only like very few foods.  My kids were picky when they were little, but now they eat everything.  All of them eat very healthy and eat lots of veggies.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

Good for you.  You don't have a kid like we are describing.  So you have no idea.  So stop pretending you have it figured out and we are just too stupid to get it. 

 

These suggestions are absolute ridiculousness for a kid like mine.  Dessert???  LMAO.  My kid doesn't even like dessert.  I don't serve dessert!  TV is the problem?  Come on.  This is silly stuff.  Tantrums?  Is that all?  Hahaha....funny.  I wish it were only tantrums. 

 

 

Well again, I don't have kids with particularly bad sensory issues.  I have a friend whose child had severe cleft palate with many surgeries and has a narrowed throat as a result. He is very picky about foods - he's had enough choking incidents there is legitimate fear there.  I don't know I would force the issue with that type of child.  Just make sure their tummy is full with healthier things they will eat.

 

But for most kids - I start with mild foods I'm pretty sure they'd like if they gave them enough chances - apple slices, fresh steamed green beans, corn on the cob, sweet pepper strips, cauliflower, peaches, mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes, ants on a log, smoothies made with spinach and frozen blueberries, etc.  Don't start with broccoli or more strong/bitter flavors. When they are used to liking most things you give them the 1st-3rd time they tasted them, they start to trust you more. They can have dessert if they taste the new foods (3 bites) and eat a serving of the foods they've liked before. 

 

Their favorite dessert, right in front of their eyes, being eaten by siblings, helps a lot. No TV on during meals helps a lot.  It's probable having a lot of kids in the home helps a lot - positive peer pressure.  The *most important* thing I've found with this is to be consistent.  As in, no exceptions when you are there, even on special occasions when every other kid at a party is eating cookies, they cannot have one until they have 3 bites of everything you put on their plate. Other people think I am crazy for this, but it works.  In the last week I've literally had a kid in tears over refusing to try steamed broccoli, and two days later she was asking for more steamed broccoli and commenting that she used to think it was gross but now she thinks it is really good.

 

Oh, another thing we do is require them to leave the table and go to their bedroom to calm down if they're going to have a tantrum about food. They will not inflict a tantrum on the rest of the family, and we will not listen to yelling, screaming, or whining because there is a food on their plate they don't want to try.  We also don't care if they want to go to bed for the night and skip dinner entirely, but they will not get any more food until breakfast the next day if they make that choice, and they will not be running around the house playing while other people are eating politely. Their choice is to sit here politely and eat or go to bed. If they are really upset at the sight of a food they may go to bed for a few minutes to calm down enough to politely come back to the table. IME every kid chooses bed for the night at least twice, but never do it again unless they are actually sick. After that they'll sit and eat the things on their plates they do like, and simply skip dessert if they refuse to taste something on their plate.

 

Particularly resistant kids earn prizes like stickers or dollar store/party favor junk for trying new foods.

 

[creekland]

I know I'm just happy my kids were willing to try things.  We brought them up from their super early days of eating solid foods to eat exactly what we were eating and they thought nothing of it.  It's just the way life is.  There are a few things they don't like, but there's a few things all of us don't like (different things).

 

I have no idea what we would have done if they didn't follow our modeled behavior.

 

I have found that many young adults (teens, early twenties) tend to not like foods because they were never exposed to them and are predisposed to think negatively about them instead of being willing to try them.

 

I'm not being totally judgmental here.  I know I don't care to even try snake, eel, eyeballs, ants, cat, and a few other things I've seen used as food (worldwide).  Most of us have our limits.  I'm just stating what I've seen mainly via school and my boys' friends.

[SparklyUnicorn]

My non picky kid will try anything.  Absolutely anything. 

 

 

[VaKim]

Ugh, those papers are the worst. That flavor binds to my tongue and lingers there until I can find something to eat to wash it away. Diet soda does the same thing the few times it's been accidentally served to me. The bitter just coats my tongue and lingers. I actually like bitter herbs and lettuces. I like grapefruit, but I've been very recently informed that it's not that bitter??? Seriously? How did nobody tell me this sooner. Some things like coffee, beer, radishes, stevia, and brussle sprouts are too bitter to ever enjoy. Even a little coffee can ruin a dessert. I did once drink a little cold brew chicory in a bunch of milk. That was drinkable. I once tried an eel that was straight bitterness and DH acted like I was crazy. I also HATE when people oversteep tea or add baking soda to iced tea. Baking soda doesn't taste bitter, but it's very distinctive and makes fresh tea taste like too-old nasty tea.

 

Ok. I have never heard of adding baking soda to iced tea. And I always have 2-3 gallons of tea in the fridge, as we drink it all the time. I just have to know where and why this is done??

[Zinnia]

My kids don't really like vegetables.

 

One of them (at almost 9) is starting to like more. Strangely, he is more eager to eat things if they are mixed (casserole/soup/curry). He is also overweight, and he is continually hungry, so he has more motivation to try more things.

 

My pickiest kid is super skinny, a but undersensitive when it comes to things like hunger, and it's no big deal for him to just skip a food that doesn't seem very appealing to him. Like skipping a meal (or 3) is no big deal to him if it's not preferred foods.

 

I sometimes wish that I was that picky (I will eat almost anything, but I am super fat). It seems that being picky and under hungry would make being thin much easier.

[ktgrok]

I have no idea what these papers everyone is talking about are but I find it interesting how different people are describing things.  I would never consider grapefruit as bitter.  To me it's sour like a lemon or a lime.

 

Radishes are spicy (and that's a good thing especially with a little salt), coffee tastes like mud, and brussel sprouts are good anyway you prepare them but boiled.  

 

I've had things that I would call bitter (but of course I can't think of anything specific at the moment) but none of the things you mentioned would even be on my radar as something that would taste bitter to people.

 

I never really thought about it before but this is quite an interesting topic on how very different people perceives tastes.

 

Wow. Yeah, grapefruit are intensely bitter to me! I kind of like them with lots of sugar on them, but super bitter. No way can I drink grapfruit juice. They are sour too, of course, but yes, bitter. Same with brussel sprouts. 

[ktgrok]

Testing strips: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001D7FF5E

[Guest]

Well again, I don't have kids with particularly bad sensory issues. I have a friend whose child had severe cleft palate with many surgeries and has a narrowed throat as a result. He is very picky about foods - he's had enough choking incidents there is legitimate fear there. I don't know I would force the issue with that type of child. Just make sure their tummy is full with healthier things they will eat.

 

But for most kids - I start with mild foods I'm pretty sure they'd like if they gave them enough chances - apple slices, fresh steamed green beans, corn on the cob, sweet pepper strips, cauliflower, peaches, mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes, ants on a log, smoothies made with spinach and frozen blueberries, etc. Don't start with broccoli or more strong/bitter flavors. When they are used to liking most things you give them the 1st-3rd time they tasted them, they start to trust you more. They can have dessert if they taste the new foods (3 bites) and eat a serving of the foods they've liked before.

 

Their favorite dessert, right in front of their eyes, being eaten by siblings, helps a lot. No TV on during meals helps a lot. It's probable having a lot of kids in the home helps a lot - positive peer pressure. The *most important* thing I've found with this is to be consistent. As in, no exceptions when you are there, even on special occasions when every other kid at a party is eating cookies, they cannot have one until they have 3 bites of everything you put on their plate. Other people think I am crazy for this, but it works. In the last week I've literally had a kid in tears over refusing to try steamed broccoli, and two days later she was asking for more steamed broccoli and commenting that she used to think it was gross but now she thinks it is really good.

 

Oh, another thing we do is require them to leave the table and go to their bedroom to calm down if they're going to have a tantrum about food. They will not inflict a tantrum on the rest of the family, and we will not listen to yelling, screaming, or whining because there is a food on their plate they don't want to try. We also don't care if they want to go to bed for the night and skip dinner entirely, but they will not get any more food until breakfast the next day if they make that choice, and they will not be running around the house playing while other people are eating politely. Their choice is to sit here politely and eat or go to bed. If they are really upset at the sight of a food they may go to bed for a few minutes to calm down enough to politely come back to the table. IME every kid chooses bed for the night at least twice, but never do it again unless they are actually sick. After that they'll sit and eat the things on their plates they do like, and simply skip dessert if they refuse to taste something on their plate.

 

Particularly resistant kids earn prizes like stickers or dollar store/party favor junk for trying new foods.

Well, I was with you on the overall concept, but not so much with these details of implementation. I just never wanted eating to be a battle in my household, but I also thanked my lucky stars that I just haven't had much of a battle on this particular front. I didn't want to be "that mom," badgering kids about numbers of bites and whether a bite was big enough and so forth. I've watched that go down with extended family and I just plain didn't want that to be me.

 

It is true that I didn't let my kids eat a dessert (even at a party) until they had made a reasonable showing on their meals, but not AFA counting bites or measuring choices. I do remember saying about certain things, "please give it a taste, otherwise you will never know if you might have liked it." But my overall philosophy was: no filling up on sugars (including fruit juices) before the main meal, when I was still making up their plates for them, they would get a small amount of all offerings, and then we would sit down to eat as a family and little else was said about the food choices, unless it was to compliment.

 

I do think the consistency of daily meals and the positive model of parents who eat the meal served helped a lot. Not letting my kids graze through the house all day probably helped a lot, because I do find that kids who are hungrier are more willing to eat what is served. (Our kitchen is generally "open" now, but they already have pretty good habits, so I don't worry about it.) But it seemed to work best for me to make little issue over foods. Or I just got lucky.

[cjzimmer1]

Testing strips: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001D7FF5E

 

Curiosity has gotten the better of me so these are now in my cart the next time I accumulate enough for a free shipping order (I'm not a prime member).  Thanks!  It will be interesting to see how my family reacts.

 

I've always assumed I was a super taster because I can tell different varieties of peaches by their flavor (when we used to get them fresh from the peach grower that is, the stuff in the grocery store is all gross not matter what the variety), I can taste different kinds of sweeteners, I tell if someone used margarine or real butter in their baked goods etc but I don't find very many foods that taste bitter so now I'm thinking maybe I'm not a super taster afterall.

[Guest]

My kids don't really like vegetables.

 

One of them (at almost 9) is starting to like more. Strangely, he is more eager to eat things if they are mixed (casserole/soup/curry). He is also overweight, and he is continually hungry, so he has more motivation to try more things.

 

My pickiest kid is super skinny, a but undersensitive when it comes to things like hunger, and it's no big deal for him to just skip a food that doesn't seem very appealing to him. Like skipping a meal (or 3) is no big deal to him if it's not preferred foods.

 

I sometimes wish that I was that picky (I will eat almost anything, but I am super fat). It seems that being picky and under hungry would make being thin much easier.

I think you are right about that. I could probably be described as "under hungry"; I guess I would be the first to go in a famine. 😬 To me, operating at a low level of hunger is no big deal. Fasting is even not a big deal. If I'm interested in something else, eating can fall far down my priority list; it was especially common before I had a family for me to eat nothing but a cup of coffee until some time in the afternoon when it would dawn on me that I probably needed to get around to eating something. That doesn't happen much now, because I'm conscious of family members getting breakfast and lunch, but it happened often before I had kids.

[Arcadia]

It seems that being picky and under hungry would make being thin much easier.

Forgetting to eat runs on my side of the family. It isn't unusual for my relatives and I to have coffee only as breakfast and then remembering to eat any meal after sunset. Food have to be tempting to entice us from whatever we are doing.

 

My skinny husband isn't picky but he is under hungry. He doesn't mind waiting for his dinner when he gets home from work and don't feel the hunger. He can forget to eat too.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Arcadia

[MBM]

Brownie recipe, please?

When I get home tonight, I will send it along. :)