Speaking of UTIs...*Thank you, removing details now.*

[Ginevra]

Thank you for all your help. We are armed with some D-Mannose, cranberry juice, and me trying to be courageous.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Quill

[Carol in Cal.]

Cranberry juice.

 

Also there is a product that if you mix it with water can clear up UTIs if you start it early.  I don't remember the name of it, but found it in an organic store, and tried it and it works.  It's a powder in a can the approximate size of  peanut can.  I'll see if I can get the name of it for you next week.

[Caroline]

I don't have any suggestions, but hugs to you.

[StephanieZ]

She might like other beverages better than plain water. Consider juice-spiked water, straight juices, etc. Popsicles, non-caffeinated teas, fruits, soups, etc, can all help increase her fluid intake. 

 

When is she bathing? If feasible, have her bathe mid-day or afternoon, so she gets clean and a pad change at that time. 

 

 

Is she not using the toilet at all? She may well be urinating in the toilet during the day, especially if she uses the toilet for bowel movements. 

 

At the end of the day, eventually, you just have to grit your teeth through the discomfort and grief . . . and be intrusive / take charge. I *know* how painful that is for both you and your loved one. I *know*. Nonetheless, it is inevitable, AND, believe it or not, it is most often not as bad as you anticipate. MANY, if not MOST, of the things I dreaded most in taking charge of . . . turned out not to be any big deal (once I got over my discomfort). So, you probably have to just say/do whatever you need to do . . . and suffer through it. Honestly, this is the most painful thing about taking care of an elder who you love and respect. I'm so sorry, but it just is what it is, and you can do it. This is the WORST. Get through it, and things will be easier for you. I promise. 

 

 

Personally, I'd use d-mannose morning and night in this circumstance. 

 

If she were sitting in wet pads, I'd imagine you'd have urine scalding issues. So, if her skin is in good shape, you're probably not in as bad shape as you think. Maybe she just holds it well and/or uses the toilet during the day?

 

If she were over-wetting at night, you'd have problems with pads . . . IME, you'd be needed to double or triple up maximum capacity pads if she were going 12+ hours over night and fully relieving herself . . .  (Had this problem when my loved one had a stroke and was sleeping extremely long and no longer having any bladder control, and was told by hospice nurses that it was common in that circumstance . . . had not previously experienced it while my loved one had still had some degree of bladder control pre-stroke but during dementia) SO, if you're not having leakage problems with a single pad, then I'd guess that she's either holding it somewhat OR she may really be dehydrated. Dehydrated being the bad news. :( 

 

When facing the most difficult conversations, I found it best to just be honest and direct. "Mom, I know this is ridiculous and rude of me to discuss, but I've got to do it. I'm worried that you're getting these miserable UTIs in part because you aren't drinking enough! I know you're not drinking enough because I know you're not changing your pads often enough! You should be changing them 5 or more times a day! At least after every meal and at bed time and waking . . ."  blah blah . .. . I'd OFTEN preface my "talks" with "I'm sorry Mom. I know it's a pain in the ass. I know it's gross. I know it's ridiculous. . . or whatever. Things like that. I didn't try to act like it was "normal" to discuss certain topics . . . until enough time had passed that it DID feel normal, and then the conversations became "easier" and were more like directions, "Mom, it's time to take your shower!" or "Mom, let's get in jammies! Now! I need to go to bed, and so do you!" Etc. 

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this. My heart is sad for you. ((((hugs)))) I know it is terribly painful. 

 

You are giving her a gift without measure. The presence and caring of someone who loves her. She needs it, and you are giving it to her. A priceless and irreplaceable gift. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[catz]

You can get cranberry in a pill form if she doesn't like cranberry juice.

[Ottakee]

Is the doctor retesting the urine after the treatment to make sure the infection is gone....and not just suppressed? Testing for the type of bacteria growing is also helpful.

 

Depending on the bacteria growing and other issues the doctor might be able to prescribe a low dose antibiotic for daily use.

[Guest]

Stephanie Z, thanks so much for all this helpful info.

 

 

 

Soup is a very good tip; I can't believe I hadn't thought of that. She eats very well and really appreciates homemade food, so that would be a very simple way to increase fluids surreptitiously.

 

All your advice about the talking is very, very helpful. I am, myself, a very private person and I have a very hard time intruding into someone else's personal space

Edited June 26, 2017 by Quill

[Guest]

Is the doctor retesting the urine after the treatment to make sure the infection is gone....and not just suppressed? Testing for the type of bacteria growing is also helpful.

 

Depending on the bacteria growing and other issues the doctor might be able to prescribe a low dose antibiotic for daily use.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Quill

[historically accurate]

I had an free app on my phone that buzzed every hour to remind me to drink enough water when I was dieting. Maybe something like that on your phone so you remember to go and pour her a drink. 

 

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

A loved one I know who is caring for her elderly loved one remarked that the elderly person did not like to change pads because of the "waste" of pads that were still serviceable (in her opinion...).  So my mom has begun setting out the number of pads she expects to be used in a day in a visible location in the bathroom to remind the elderly person that all 5 should be gone by her last trip to the toilet before bed.  Seeing the allotted daily stack somehow made it easier for the elderly person to deal with the "waste" concept.  Also, making sure to always have a large stock in the garage or somewhere so that the elderly person never finds herself in the position of needing to ask for more.  

 

My heart goes out to your loved ones dealing with this! 

[DesertBlossom]

I once took a round of abx for a uti (this was probably 13 years ago) and I didn't feel like my symptoms (burning during urination) were completely gone when my course was up. I went back to the doctor determined I needed more abx. Long story short, it turned out to be yeast infection, brought on by the antibiotics, but my only symptom was burning. With the wet pads underneath her, that would be an ideal environment for yeast to get a stronghold. So it might be a uti, but it could be yeast, or even both.

 

Also, the d-mannose is slightly sweet, but almost completely tasteless. I would think it could easily be slipped into any fluid that she is willing to drink.

Edited June 25, 2017 by DesertBlossom

[zoobie]

I agree with several posters--check to make sure that the infection is actually gone gone. She might need lower dose antibiotics for a longer time. Is her doctor a gerontology specialist? UTIs are very common in older people.

 

Also agree to try fluids other than water. Does she prefer a hot beverage to cold? Tea or coffee or cocoa which you could push her to drink before it gets cold. ;) Jello or homemade gelatin with fruit juice. A salty snack to encourage fluid intake. Or a cookie with a cuppa.

 

I also agree that the concept of waste might be preventing her from changing the pads frequently. Would she react positively to you telling her you searched out a good deal? And having the doctor explain they need to be changed each trip to the toilet? The doctor might also help push fluids. Sometimes people will listen to the doctor more than a family member. Then you merely remind her of the doctor's orders.

 

There are cloth incontinence products from pads to the period panties. I don't know if adding more laundry would push you over the edge. My stepmother looked into it and decided she could not add to her work, but her mother needs it for both types of elimination.

 

You're a very thoughtful DIL. :grouphug:

Edited June 25, 2017 by zoobie

[Guest]

Monica, thank you.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Quill

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Hmmm... that is a bit of a conundrum...  Is your house set up in such a way that you could institute a "men's room" and a "ladies' room"?  I had a friend who did that for other reasons and she even hung little restroom signs on the doors.  lol.  

[Guest]

Hmmm... that is a bit of a conundrum... Is your house set up in such a way that you could institute a "men's room" and a "ladies' room"? I had a friend who did that for other reasons and she even hung little restroom signs on the doors. lol.

No, there's only one powder room on the main level. That is a cute idea, though. It's actually basically like that upstairs; the boys use one bathroom and my girl uses a different one.

[SebastianCat]

DH's dad had dementia that progressed over 20+ years after having a stroke, and it helped to have someone "official" give him directions.  He was in assisted living, then memory care for the last 2-3 years of his life, and if a family member said, "Dad, it's time to _____," he'd protest.   But a nurse's aide with an "official" looking apron would come and repeat the exact same instructions, and his response was, "OK, sure."   Same thing with doctor's orders.    

 

Maybe you could get some "doctor's orders" about how many glasses of water she ought to be drinking per day, or how many pads she should use per day?   If it becomes chronic, maybe having a home health nurse or aide to come in a more official capacity would generate better compliance.   Maybe even just saying, "Remember, Dr. Smith wants you to drink 3 glasses of water between meals" or "Remember, Dr. Smith wants you to use 5 pads per day, so it's time to change it" would help.

[Laura Corin]

Check if she is ingesting Aspartame/NutraSweet. It can mimic UTIs in some people, or irritate the urinary tract in a way that increases the likelihood of infection.

[wapiti]

Cranberry juice.

 

Also there is a product that if you mix it with water can clear up UTIs if you start it early.  I don't remember the name of it, but found it in an organic store, and tried it and it works.  It's a powder in a can the approximate size of  peanut can.  I'll see if I can get the name of it for you next week.

 

You can get cranberry in a pill form if she doesn't like cranberry juice.

 

FWIW, D-mannose is the stuff contained in cranberry juice that helps, available both in capsules and in powder to mix into drinks.

 

ETA, Quill, if you are thinking along the lines of an herbal antibiotic approach, IIRC there is a protocol for UTIs in Buhner's Herbal Antibiotics book.

Edited June 25, 2017 by wapiti

[Guest]

FWIW, D-mannose is the stuff contained in cranberry juice that helps, available both in capsules and in powder to mix into drinks.

 

ETA, Quill, if you are thinking along the lines of an herbal antibiotic approach, IIRC there is a protocol for UTIs in Buhner's Herbal Antibiotics book.

Thank you. I'm looking for something she can take/do every day to decrease the likelihood of repeat, although yes, I would also like to see this one go away. IOW, I won't allow symptoms to persist without getting dr.s help, but it would be nice if this helps.

[Guest]

Check if she is ingesting Aspartame/NutraSweet. It can mimic UTIs in some people, or irritate the urinary tract in a way that increases the likelihood of infection.

That's good to know, but I'm almost 100% positive that she is not. I don't buy anything with Nutrasweet as an ingredient. It is rare that she eats or drinks anything not bought and prepared by me at this time.

[Seasider]

I'd insist on the retest and bacteria identification. UTI can be caused by E. coli, you don't want that to go on indefinitely.

 

Also, it's possible that fecal matter rather than urine is cause for recurring contamination.

 

You are a very good DIL, Quill!

[G5052]

The assisted living where my mother lived actually laid out the fluids for the day for each patient in the dementia unit. When I was there working on mom's room, they told me to get a drink anytime from the top shelf. Every other shelf had a box with water, juice, tea, etc. for each patient. The aids would make sure that the box was down to just what the evening shift would give by shift change. Then the evening shift refilled each box. They also changed pads on a schedule that varied by patient. 

 

It was expensive ($9,000/month), but they seemed to do an excellent job. 

[Guest]

Quill, you are such a wonderful human being!!

[TravelingChris]

Are they actually finding bacteria or just figuring that urine with some microscopic blood means infection if symptoms are there? Other conditions can cause the symptoms without any infection at all. I have occasional problems with UTI like symptoms and it turned out that I have interstitional cystitis as part of my complete autoimmune issues.But is can also be caused by other things. So she needs a urine culture to make sure it is bacteria. She may also have been born with an abnormality or developed one after giving birth that predisposed to bacteria UTIs and more likely to occur with infrequent voiding.

[Guest]

Are they actually finding bacteria or just figuring that urine with some microscopic blood means infection if symptoms are there? Other conditions can cause the symptoms without any infection at all. I have occasional problems with UTI like symptoms and it turned out that I have interstitional cystitis as part of my complete autoimmune issues.But is can also be caused by other things. So she needs a urine culture to make sure it is bacteria. She may also have been born with an abnormality or developed one after giving birth that predisposed to bacteria UTIs and more likely to occur with infrequent voiding.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Quill

[Guest]

Quill, you are such a wonderful human being!!

Aww. I am so touched you would say so! 😘

[Seasider]

Are they actually finding bacteria or just figuring that urine with some microscopic blood means infection if symptoms are there? Other conditions can cause the symptoms without any infection at all. I have occasional problems with UTI like symptoms and it turned out that I have interstitional cystitis as part of my complete autoimmune issues.But is can also be caused by other things. So she needs a urine culture to make sure it is bacteria. She may also have been born with an abnormality or developed one after giving birth that predisposed to bacteria UTIs and more likely to occur with infrequent voiding.

If the bacteria issue is resolved, and she is now experiencing frequent urination, it could be abx caused constipation (reducing bladder capacity).

[lmrich]

Would she like herbal iced tea? I love the blueberry and peach tea cooled and poured over ice. It is so refreshing and yummy. 

Best of luck. My mom does not like to drink much either; it is so frustrating since being dehydrated makes her feel miserable. 

 

[Janeway]

Can you get the person to take cranberry supplements? I take them in chewable form. I have recurrent UTIs due to a malformation. When I take the cranberry, I do fine. When I stop (only due to running out) I generally will get another UTI within a week or two.

[Guest]

Would she like herbal iced tea? I love the blueberry and peach tea cooled and poured over ice. It is so refreshing and yummy.

Best of luck. My mom does not like to drink much either; it is so frustrating since being dehydrated makes her feel miserable.

I could try, but she doesn't usually want regular iced tea when offered. She might possibly like herbal though.

[Guest]

Janeway, she will take a D-Mannose capsule and she will drink cranberry juice. I hope to continue taking the supplement daily and if she will drink the juice while taking the supplements, so much the better. I did see there are gummies of cranberry available at the vitamin store, but the capsule of D-mannose had 1000mg, while the cranberry gummies had a much smaller amount. I think 200mg.

[Annie G]

My MIL has dementia and needs help toileting.  She gets UTIs frequently and often has none of the typical symptoms.   I think hers are caused by poor hygeine- for a few months she was totally unable to wipe herself and FIL was the one doing it when we weren't there. He wipes her back to front- he had no idea girls shouldn't do that. And last visit I discovered she is back to wiping herself, and you guessed it- back to front. 

 

She cannot get in a bathtub so cleaning her is a real challenge. And I'm not convinced the uti ever really goes away- her doc doesn't even recheck it!

 

 Your mil not changing her pads often enough or maybe not cleaning the area well might be as much a contributing factor as fluid intake. 

 

 

 

[StephanieZ]

My MIL has dementia and needs help toileting.  She gets UTIs frequently and often has none of the typical symptoms.   I think hers are caused by poor hygeine- for a few months she was totally unable to wipe herself and FIL was the one doing it when we weren't there. He wipes her back to front- he had no idea girls shouldn't do that. And last visit I discovered she is back to wiping herself, and you guessed it- back to front. 

 

She cannot get in a bathtub so cleaning her is a real challenge. And I'm not convinced the uti ever really goes away- her doc doesn't even recheck it!

 

 Your mil not changing her pads often enough or maybe not cleaning the area well might be as much a contributing factor as fluid intake. 

 

FYI, they sell toilet-seat-bidets that are under $500 or so, that provide warm water washing right there on the toilet!!

 

I had actually JUST bought one when Mom had her terminal stroke. It was still in the box (and I returned it). I think it was $500 or so. 

 

Check out Amazon for ideas. I'd searched high and low, and it seemed like you could get a very nice one for $500 or so. Cheaper ones were also available, and of course, you can always spend more. There are models that light up and play music, lol.

 

So, anyway, I never got to give it a real try, but it seemed like an awesome idea. Poop/pee, then warm water spray right there on the toilet . . . so you can get ALL clean without even moving to a separate bidet, and surely it'd have been much more comfortable for all involved. 

[Annie G]

FYI, they sell toilet-seat-bidets that are under $500 or so, that provide warm water washing right there on the toilet!!

 

I had actually JUST bought one when Mom had her terminal stroke. It was still in the box (and I returned it). I think it was $500 or so. 

 

Check out Amazon for ideas. I'd searched high and low, and it seemed like you could get a very nice one for $500 or so. Cheaper ones were also available, and of course, you can always spend more. There are models that light up and play music, lol.

 

So, anyway, I never got to give it a real try, but it seemed like an awesome idea. Poop/pee, then warm water spray right there on the toilet . . . so you can get ALL clean without even moving to a separate bidet, and surely it'd have been much more comfortable for all involved. 

That would be awesome! Everything is such a battle because we live 1100 miles away and dh's sister is such a PITA to work with.   Maybe she will let us do this...we'll see.  They really needed an ADA height toilet and sil wouldn't let us do it because she's building a house for them to all live in and didn't want to spend the money since they would be moving 'soon'. (It was our money!) Yeah, that was August 2015. Still building the damn house.  We bought an add on their raised the seat to ADA height and it works great. SIL hates it because it's not pretty. It's a %$#^&&( toilet- it's not going to be pretty!

 

Off to check out the toilet seat bidets- thanks for the suggestion!