Really weird question--diabetes smell?

[AnnE-girl]

This is probably the weirdest question I've ever asked here, but the Hive seems to have the answer for everything. :-) One of my college roommates had poorly controlled type one diabetes and had episodes of getting really sick. During these episodes, our whole room took on this odd smell that I didn't recognize from anyone else being sick. It was sort of sickly sweet but really hard to describe. Occasionally I smell something similar on my kids' breath when they've been sick, but not nearly like it was with my roommate. Does anyone know what that smell would be from? I remember that sometimes it was during episodes when she was having problems with ketones, but I don't remember all the terminology.

And I do realize just how bizarre this question sounds.

[Lawana]

Ketones. It is a metabolic byproduct of burning fat instead of glucose for fuel.

 

Some describe it as similar to acetone (nail polish remover) and some as a fruity smell.

 

Non-diabetics can have ketones on a very low carb diet and also when fasting.

 

ETA it is due to a relative lack of insulin. For Type 1 diabetics when not enough insulin is delivered either by intention, neglect, or when the body requires more such as in times of illness.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Lawana

[melmichigan]

This is probably the weirdest question I've ever asked here, but the Hive seems to have the answer for everything. :-) One of my college roommates had poorly controlled type one diabetes and had episodes of getting really sick. During these episodes, our whole room took on this odd smell that I didn't recognize from anyone else being sick. It was sort of sickly sweet but really hard to describe. Occasionally I smell something similar on my kids' breath when they've been sick, but not nearly like it was with my roommate. Does anyone know what that smell would be from? I remember that sometimes it was during episodes when she was having problems with ketones, but I don't remember all the terminology.

And I do realize just how bizarre this question sounds.

Diabetic ketoacidosis.  Young children can often run higher blood sugars when they are ill and dehydrated, they also have more leeway in their numbers.

Edited April 11, 2017 by melmichigan

[Lawana]

Someone can have pretty high levels of ketones without being in dka.

[Spryte]

Yes, to the above. Probably ketones.

 

It's not an odd question, but it does feel strange. Similarly, but different illness and smell - when my dear friend was ill, and I was her primary caregiver, I learned that kidney failure has its own smell, too. No one else seemed to notice but a few days before the docs caught it each time, I'd smell it. It actually became useful as a warning.

 

Sometimes I'll smell it in a crowd of people or standing in line, though, and worry about complete strangers. And when we lost our dog recently, to cancer, I smelled it again toward the end as his kidneys failed. :(

[Carol in Cal.]

Yes, and in an adult it is indicative of very high blood sugar, not just being a bit out of range.

[AnnE-girl]

Thanks. I knew I would get the answer here. I never wanted to make my roommate feel self conscious by asking her about the smell. She had a hard enough time with multiple trips to the hospital and dropping out senior year to focus on her health. Just smelling it on my kids once in a while took me back to those days and I wondered. I'm also stuck under my toddler who's getting over a stomach bug and won't let me lay him down for his nap, so I thought I'd take the time to ask now.

[prairiewindmomma]

This is why some diabetics are paired with trained companion animals. They can alert to both high and low blood sugar smells.

[debinindy]

Yes, to the above. Probably ketones.

 

It's not an odd question, but it does feel strange. Similarly, but different illness and smell - when my dear friend was ill, and I was her primary caregiver, I learned that kidney failure has its own smell, too. No one else seemed to notice but a few days before the docs caught it each time, I'd smell it. It actually became useful as a warning.

 

Sometimes I'll smell it in a crowd of people or standing in line, though, and worry about complete strangers. And when we lost our dog recently, to cancer, I smelled it again toward the end as his kidneys failed. :(

 

 

Spryte, that is so fascinating. How wonderful that your nose was so helpful to your friend.

 

I always learn something new on these boards!

[gardenmom5]

sounds like ketones to me too.

[Lawana]

While ketones are often associated with very high blood glucose levels, there are a number of situation where ketones, even dangerously high levels, can occur with normal bg. That can get very tricky to manage, because the insulin needed to reduce the ketone level will also lower bg to unacceptably low levels.

 

It is also possible to have quite high bg (400+) without having ketones of any significance.

 

As far as sick kids, the ketones occur because of not eating enough. Not considered dangerous in and of itself, because non-diabetics produce enough insulin, even in times of fasting, to prevent the feedback loop that leads to dka(diabetic ketoacidosis).

[gstharr]

Yes, to the above. Probably ketones.

 

It's not an odd question, but it does feel strange. Similarly, but different illness and smell - when my dear friend was ill, and I was her primary caregiver, I learned that kidney failure has its own smell, too. No one else seemed to notice but a few days before the docs caught it each time, I'd smell it. It actually became useful as a warning.

 

Sometimes I'll smell it in a crowd of people or standing in line, though, and worry about complete strangers. And when we lost our dog recently, to cancer, I smelled it again toward the end as his kidneys failed. :(

 

Many years ago, I visited a friend, at her home, suffering from a severe flu.   She had all the typical flu symptoms, but she smelled very strange. It was a smell I had only encountered once when I got lost in a hospital, and opened the door to a post-op recovery area--the air in that room  had an unforgettable smell of sickness.   Anyway, took her to the hospital.  Turns out that she had toxic shock syndrome and was going critical.  TSS leads to kidney and liver failure.  So maybe that was her strange smell

[prairiewindmomma]

Certain types of cancer also have a distinct smell.

[Spryte]

Many years ago, I visited a friend, at her home, suffering from a severe flu.   She had all the typical flu symptoms, but she smelled very strange. It was a smell I had only encountered once when I got lost in a hospital, and opened the door to a post-op recovery area--the air in that room  had an unforgettable smell of sickness.   Anyway, took her to the hospital.  Turns out that she had toxic shock syndrome and was going critical.  TSS leads to kidney and liver failure.  So maybe that was her strange smell

 

Oh my goodness, thankfully you took her in!  

 

The kidney failure smell is very distinctive to me, I'm always surprised that not everyone smells it.  It's hard to explain but sort of a salty, warm smell.  But not pleasant.  

 

Another one with a distinctive smell is C. Diff.  But that's another story.  

[BooksandBoys]

Diabetic ketosis.

Her blood sugars are high. It happens to my husband occasionally, so I knew the smell. When I smelled it on my 11 month old son's breath, I took him in to the pediatrician to ask for an A1C. They looked at me like I had eighteen heads and everyone in the office was shocked when his was elevated. Turns out, he has the same form of diabetes that his father and aunt have (MODY II).

 

When my second son is sick, he gets the smell too (he does not have diabetes). Since we have testing supplies, I've been able to confirm that his glucose levels are higher at those times.

PSA, in my kids, steroids raise sugar levels crazy high! We got a 380 fasting glucose out of my oldest son once when he was on steroids for an allergic reaction.

[DesertBlossom]

Diabetic ketosis.

Her blood sugars are high. It happens to my husband occasionally, so I knew the smell. When I smelled it on my 11 month old son's breath, I took him in to the pediatrician to ask for an A1C. They looked at me like I had eighteen heads and everyone in the office was shocked when his was elevated. Turns out, he has the same form of diabetes that his father and aunt have (MODY II).

 

When my second son is sick, he gets the smell too (he does not have diabetes). Since we have testing supplies, I've been able to confirm that his glucose levels are higher at those times.gose

PSA, in my kids, steroids raise sugar levels crazy high! We got a 380 fasting glucose out of my oldest son once when he was on steroids for an allergic reaction.

 

Holy cow. 

 

I have one DD with T1D. A year after she was diagnosed my then 18-month old started asking for lots of water, to the point even my SIL pointed it out. I checked his BG and it was 220. I FREAKED OUT. I didn't think I could handle another baby with T1.  But, his blood sugar came down over the next 12 hours or so and 7 years later he still has never developed T1. But man, it had me scared.

 

Diabetes sucks.

 

DD had a BG of over 600 when she was diagnosed and was really ill, but I don't remember any distinct smells.

[Katy]

Certain types of cancer also have a distinct smell.

 

Yep.  And most end-stage cancer has its own smell that is very similar to Easter Lily.  I hate that scent.

[littlebug42]

I went to my family doctor once when I was ill.  I apparently had pretty bad strep throat.  As soon as I opened my mouth to let her swab it, she said it was definitely strep because she could smell it.   She was right.

[KungFuPanda]

I think that smell is a seriously underutilized sense. I don't know why stuff like this isn't more common. I USE my nose all the time and it makes me nuts if I have a cold and can't. DH seems to have a much narrower range of smells and acts like it's magic when I notice something. He doesn't seem to rely on his nose for day-to-day life.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think that smell is a seriously underutilized sense. I don't know why stuff like this isn't more common. I USE my nose all the time and it makes me nuts if I have a cold and can't. DH seems to have a much narrower range of smells and acts like it's magic when I notice something. He doesn't seem to rely on his nose for day-to-day life.

 

I've read that women have a better sense of smell than men. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Ok...so which is it.  High blood sugar or low blood sugar?  The ketones?  There are conflicting things being said here.

 

I ask because I think I know this smell.  I sometimes smell it in my pee first thing in the morning.  TMI.  I AM on a low carb diet.  There is no way it's from high blood sugar. 

[Lawana]

It is almost certainly the ketones that you are smelling.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It is almost certainly the ketones that you are smelling.

 

Yes, I'm sure of that, but someone just said a few posts up this is from high blood sugar?!  I have never heard that.

[Lawana]

Yes, I'm sure of that, but someone just said a few posts up this is from high blood sugar?! I have never heard that.

I thought they meant that high blood sugar could cause ketones.

[Katy]

Ok...so which is it.  High blood sugar or low blood sugar?  The ketones?  There are conflicting things being said here.

 

I ask because I think I know this smell.  I sometimes smell it in my pee first thing in the morning.  TMI.  I AM on a low carb diet.  There is no way it's from high blood sugar. 

 

Either.  The smell means you are burning fat. This could mean you're diabetic and your blood sugar is VERY high, and you don't have enough insulin to bring glucose into cells so you are burning fat instead.  Or it could mean your blood sugar is very low, so you're burning fat.  Low could be caused by a low carb diet, or being so sick you're not eating enough over several days and most of your fuel is coming from fat.  It can also smell like alcohol.  If you find someone who is acting drunk and their breath smells fruity, assume they might be diabetic rather than that they are drunk. It very well might be a medical emergency.  DH stopped to get milk on the way home from work the other day and a diabetic was acting extremely confused.  DH didn't realize what was going on, but there happened to be a paramedic in the same aisle who did. They broke open a bottle of orange juice and the guy was fine in less than a minute.  DH wondered if he should take an EMT-b class.

 

ETA: Insulin dependent diabetics who don't calculate their insulin well, or don't watch their sugars as they do something like exercise (which can make sugar go up but crash afterwards) can easily get dangerously low.  That's what happened with the guy in the grocery store).

Edited April 12, 2017 by Katy

[mmasc]

I don't have anything to add, but I'm finding this thread to be extremely fascinating! I have a very sensitive nose, but haven't had any of these experiences yet. However, I am going to be observant now of the things you all have mentioned.

[DesertBlossom]

 

 

ETA: Insulin dependent diabetics who don't calculate their insulin well, or don't watch their sugars as they do something like exercise (which can make sugar go up but crash afterwards) can easily get dangerously low.  That's what happened with the guy in the grocery store).

 

I just want to add--  low or high blood sugar isn't always a person's fault. There are so many variables that affect blood sugar and insulin needs. Even when you're vigilant about calculating insulin and checking blood sugar, there will still be unexpected highs and lows that aren't really anyone's fault.  It could be hormones (like growth spurts or monthly cycles), illness, medications, the weather, bad insulin, clogged pump lines, mislabeled foods, etc.  I heard/read somewhere that if blood sugar is in range 1/2 the time, you're doing okay.  Seriously, there's no such thing as "managing" Type 1 diabetes. You just look for patterns and do the best you can, but sometimes it's still a crapshoot.

[Katy]

I just want to add--  low or high blood sugar isn't always a person's fault. There are so many variables that affect blood sugar and insulin needs. Even when you're vigilant about calculating insulin and checking blood sugar, there will still be unexpected highs and lows that aren't really anyone's fault.  It could be hormones (like growth spurts or monthly cycles), illness, medications, the weather, bad insulin, clogged pump lines, mislabeled foods, etc.  I heard/read somewhere that if blood sugar is in range 1/2 the time, you're doing okay.  Seriously, there's no such thing as "managing" Type 1 diabetes. You just look for patterns and do the best you can, but sometimes it's still a crapshoot.

 

absolutely.