Panty lines vs. undershirt lines

[Rebel Yell]

In many of the "What should I wear" type of topics here, "VPL" or Visible Panty Lines seems to be a horrific no-no.

 

I gotta ask, WHY is it seen as a such a heinous crime?

 

I am NOT talking about someone like me, many many pounds overweight, nearing 50, wearing string bikini undies three sizes too small with lightweight leggings stretched way too thin.

 

I'm talking about an average female of any age or size wearing properly fitted garments, not see-through, that happen to reveal the elastic outline of underpants.

 

I see a lot of men who are clearly wearing undershirts- the outline of the undershirt is visible, either the short-sleeve hem or the tank-style outline.

 

Are people's perceptions different because men's undershirts can be worn alone as actual shirts? But they're still underwear.

 

Without intentionally staring, I've been aware of young men wearing what seems to be "boxer briefs" under gym shorts, I can see the outline of the leg hem. Why are men not encouraged to wear underwear that doesn't show any outlines?

 

And what about the outline of a bra? Even in loose, opaque shirts is it nearly impossible to hide the outline of a bra, and why do we have to?

 

I also don't get the perceived evil of bra straps. Most of the time, it is really unclear from just the straps themselves if it is an actual undergarment bra strap or a camisole strap. And I'm aware that women can choose to wear only clothing that covers bra straps... but I'm talking about when for example tank top straps are slightly misaligned with bra straps. Or th bra straps are "outerwear quality" meaning they look just like straps of a camisole tank top, rather than supportive working bra straps.

 

Not sure what my point is, just wondering what anyone's thoughts are. I also don't really go about my day noticing other people's underwear, so maybe that's why I'm wondering why so many women are concerned about the dreaded VPL? And are any men even aware or do they care that their underwear may be obvious?

[regentrude]

Double standard.

Men are not judged by their attire as harshly as women are.

Men's bodies are not seen as inherently sinful.

Attacks of female predators on males are not justified by the male victim's outfit.

 

I could go on.

 

I don't give a fig about the outline of somebody's undergarments showing. I probably won't notice, because there are so many more important things to notice about people.

And, judging by my male friends, they won't notice either. It's typically women doing it to other women.

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by regentrude

[wintermom]

I don't see a lot of men with visible undershirts.

 

I see way more girls and young women with visible bra straps, and more because the outer garment is just too small or revealing. I don't think it's necessary, in good taste, and certainly not professional. I understand that some climates are hot, and less clothing is more comfortable. So what. If women want to be taken seriously, then they should dress seriously. Just my rant for the day. ;)

[MercyA]

Visible underwear lines draw attention to the backside and sometimes clearly display what style of underwear one happens to be wearing. I think they are slightly immodest and--what's the word I'm looking for--unpolished, maybe--on men and on women. That is my opinion and I don't have the time or inclination to give anyone a problem about it, outside of my family.

 

Same with visible bra outlines or straps--they draw attention to that part of the body and sometimes the type of bra being worn. I don't think it's modest. YMMV.

 

Men's t-shirts don't cover a part of the body that is generally viewed as very private. I do personally prefer that men keep their shirts on, though.

[Bluegoat]

They give an impression of not paying attention to detail, being a bit undone.  And when they aren't meant to be there, they ruin the line of the clothing and can make things look a little bunchy. So the impression is the clothes aren't fitting quite properly.

 

I don't think it's any different with men.  Undershirts for men aren't that usual here these days, but when they are visible through the shirt they give me the impression the man is a little clueless about clothes.  Also, men who wear white dress shirts where you can see their nipples through the fabric. 

 

Boxer shorts under shorts are even a little worse, because it is super-easy to flash someone while wearing that - at best it looks clueless but it can come off as creepy pretty easily.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Bluegoat

[SparklyUnicorn]

I didn't get the memo.  I wear whatever the hell I want and frankly don't care what anyone thinks.  So if someone sees my underwear lines, good for them.  I hope they enjoy the view.  Or not...don't care.

 

I don't wear a bra either.

 

 

[HTRMom]

I hardly ever notice panty lines, because I'm not staring at butts. Yes, it's a little tacky, simply because it's not supposed to show and does. Like socks peeking out of your loafers. Same with bra straps. Not supposed to show, so it looks like a careless mistake. Your slip showing under your dress. A man's underpants showing if he raises his arms. His leg showing over his sock. All show ill-fitting clothes or lack of detail attention.

 

Undershirts are usually made to show so it's ok. Like the top of a man's t-shirt with the first button unbuttoned or the top of your camisole with your v-neck shirt. It doesn't look careless because it's made to be that way on purpose. If a man was wearing a shirt and tie and his undershirt showed, it would look cheap, because the material is too thin. But that only matters in formal environments.

 

Underpants are intrinsically more immodest than t-shirts, which can be outerwear, so that's another factor.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bluegoat]

I don't see it as related to modesty at all.  But like someone above said, it's like armholes that are too large or a slip hanging below the hem.

[Guest]

I try to keep my undergarments discreet because they're private. But I don't consider a bra strap or panty lines some unforgivable clothing sin. I think people make too much of nothing.

 

I'm also lax on body hair grooming too, though, so maybe I'm just too much of a dirty hippy to care about these things beyond the basic - am I clean/am I covered criteria.

[KungFuPanda]

Because in order to even HAVE a fashion industry you need a lot of people to think stuff like VPL is Very Important. My favorite is when people who are appalled by VPLs don't mind if their bra straps show because . . .you know . . . fashion makes sense and is consistent.

[Katy]

I think this was made up by the woman who founded Spanx.  It wasn't as much of a big deal until then.

 

Marketing creates a lot of first world problems.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I think a lot of times, it's not about sin or modesty at all, but it has more to do with our photoshop-crazed media, trying to make everything perfect.  A panti-line detracts from the perfect line of the garment.  If a panti-line were to show in a magazine photo, it would be removed as a flaw.  We don't see panti-lines on models, therefore, we don't want them on us.  I don't like them because they make me look even lumpier than I am (so I wear boy-short briefs).

 

It is a double standard: many would be appalled to know we weren't wearing underwear, yet we are expected to hide fact that we're wearing them.  How crazy is that?  

 

 

Bra straps are another thing altogether.  In summer, it's hot, and tank tops are comfortable, and who gives a fig if the bra strap shows.  Again, if a woman is wearing a fashion garment, she may want to wear a strapless bra or one with an attractive strap, so as not to detract from the garment.  But just strolling around in a tank top and shorts?  No big deal.  The detractors to this practice do seem to be worried about modesty or sexuality or something.  I don't really understand it.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

 

It is a double standard: many would be appalled to know we weren't wearing underwear, yet we are expected to hide fact that we're wearing them.  How crazy is that?  

 

 

so true!

[solascriptura]

It's merely a double standard. I couldn't care less about panty lines. Shouldn't it look like I have undies on? It's more "scandalous" if I don't have panties on, no?

[solascriptura]

My dh always points out if my bra strap shows, but I don't care about that either. No one is looking at me.

[SparklyUnicorn]

What is far less pleasant to see is butt cracks.  I've seen a lot of women's butt cracks.  Low cut jeans...bending over to snatch up little ones.... I often wondered if they realized everyone could see their butt crack hanging out.  LOL

 

Eh well...whatta ya gonna do.  Not like I don't have a butt crack. 

 

 

[Rebel Yell]

They give an impression of not paying attention to detail, being a bit undone.  And when they aren't meant to be there, they ruin the line of the clothing and can make things look a little bunchy. So the impression is the clothes aren't fitting quite properly.

 

I don't think it's any different with men.  Undershirts for men aren't that usual here these days, but when they are visible through the shirt they give me the impression the man is a little clueless about clothes.  Also, men who wear white dress shirts where you can see their nipples through the fabric. 

 

Boxer shorts under shorts are even a little worse, because it is super-easy to flash someone while wearing that - at best it looks clueless but it can come off as creepy pretty easily.

 

 

Of course anyone can comment however they like, but I specifically asked about well-fitted clothing.

 

 

 

I think this was made up by the woman who founded Spanx.  It wasn't as much of a big deal until then.

 

Marketing creates a lot of first world problems.

Try 1978, Underalls https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kS_AlIi2Zso

 

And as you can see in the video, you don't have to be walking around staring at butts... almost impossible to avoid being at eye level with them on stairways. ;)

 

So, if we can argue that men's undershirts are meant to be seen, as in the crew neck undershirt with the unbuttoned top button on a shirt, then why not bra straps? Many of them are beautiful- gorgeous colors, satin fabric. Much nicer than a cotton undershirt :D Also, many actual clothes are made with "underwear" details, like adjustable straps.

 

And anyone who believes that women should wear strapless bras to avoid the dreaded accidental viewing of a bra strap needs to spend a day in the life of a 32DDD. If you can even find and afford such a magnificent undergarment, it would need to be tight enough to actually stay up, creating lumps and lines. Then try to go about a normal active day and see just how comfortable it is.

 

This past weekend I got a surprise gift of front row tickets to our big city professional ballet. I was sitting close enough that I could observe the seams of dance tights under the costumes. (Not the back-seam on the legs, but the center seams that would run from belly button around to the center back) My only thought was "Wow, even full-time professionals have the same problems with tights as my girls do." Then I went on to enjoy the ballet. I did not notice any VPL or VUS (visible under shirt) on any audience members :) but mostly because I generally don't care.

[frogger]

Hmmmm, it might depend on where you live. I don't hear of this problem. I see bra straps and panty lines (accidentally) all the time.  I suppose if you were representing your company at something important or were a lawyer representing a client in court you would want to be careful because you are representing someone to a group of humans who all have their own thoughts but in day to day life I don't see this brought up as an issue. Of course, I read in the paper that my town was voted worst dressed in the nation or something like that in some magazine. They had to make sure it got in the paper so that we would see it as most of us probably don't bother reading whatever magazine it was so maybe that is why I haven't a clue what you are talking about.  I'm pretty sure the standards are different elsewhere. 

 

[catz]

I'm sure I'm walking around with VPL all the time and I could not care less. Double standard for sure.

[frogger]

Oh, just saw the other thread. I see where this came from.

[poppy]

Men wear undershirts?  I don't see it, in my part of the country.  Or, maybe I just don't see it?

 

I think this was made up by the woman who founded Spanx.  It wasn't as much of a big deal until then.

 

Marketing creates a lot of first world problems.

 

I don't think that's true.  I learned what VPL stood for on  an episode of The Golden Girls.

[Seasider]

Leaving any moral positions out (one way or the other), the line across the top of the thigh in back is unflattering. It breaks up the clean line of pants from waist through the length. Personally, I don't need anything helping me look stubbier than I already am!

Edited March 29, 2017 by Seasider

[MercyA]

Oh, just saw the other thread. I see where this came from.

 

Which thread?

[Catwoman]

I think this was made up by the woman who founded Spanx.  It wasn't as much of a big deal until then.

 

Marketing creates a lot of first world problems.

I'm 53 and it has always been noticed, because if your clothes fit properly, panty lines shouldn't be visible.

 

People can dress any way they like, but for many women, appearances do matter -- not because of some ridiculous idea about pleasing men, but because we want to look our best for ourselves, and we don't like the look of ill-fitting clothing.

[Katy]

Men wear undershirts?  I don't see it, in my part of the country.  Or, maybe I just don't see it?

 

 

I don't think that's true.  I learned what VPL stood for on  an episode of The Golden Girls.

 

I didn't say it didn't exist, only that it wasn't as much of a big deal.

[Catwoman]

I didn't say it didn't exist, only that it wasn't as much of a big deal.

I think it's far less of a big deal now than it used to be when I was younger. Panty lines and bra straps were absolutely not supposed to show -- but people are far more casual about that sort of thing now.

[heartlikealion]

I don't usually see men's undershirts. I have commented to dh when I saw his pocket outline showing through his dress shirt. I don't even know if he cared Lol. He refuses to wear regular undershirts. He also only buys t-shirts with a pocket.

 

I think of panties as more private than say, a shirt hem. I'd do better comparing women's camisoles to men's undershirts showing. I have one top that is a baseball shirt. I didn't realize it at first but it's very see through. I wear a white camisole under it but then you can see the camisole. I don't know if I've ever worn it in public because it makes me self conscious.

 

It's so hot here I wouldn't want a woman to feel like she couldn't leave the house in a tank top because her bra strap kept poking out. Mine has done that before and you know what, some days it's like, whatever. I'm not wearing it like that to a professional setting. Just don't store your money in your bra. I'll judge you for that. No one wants to handle your sweaty money. Get a purse or wallet. :laugh:

 

 

[poppy]

I think it's far less of a big deal now than it used to be when I was younger. Panty lines and bra straps were absolutely not supposed to show -- but people are far more casual about that sort of thing now.

I agree , both were taboo in the past, now we're totally fine with bra straps (unless they're white / dingy) and 'eh' on VPL.

 

VPL used indicate poor taste and now it's more 'why isn't she using a thong?'

[frogger]

Which thread?

The fashion thread about off the shoulder sleeves which discussed bra straps. I might be wrong. It could be coincidence.

[Rebel Yell]

The fashion thread about off the shoulder sleeves which discussed bra straps. I might be wrong. It could be coincidence.

Partly that one, but also I recall many topics about clothing somehow mentioning bra straps and panty lines.

[Bluegoat]

 

 

Of course anyone can comment however they like, but I specifically asked about well-fitted clothing.

 

......

Well, sure, but what I am saying is that it is the same kind of thing.  In the same way that a gaping armhole or buttons that don't lie flat or zippers that don't stay up are a thing in fashion, panty lines are. 

 

Probably they are less serious than a tricky zipper or messed up slip, at least in casual dress, but in professional or fancy dress they are going to suggest you don't have the right underwear. 

 

Some people don't care about any of that stuff, but I don't think it is a mystery why some do.

[KungFuPanda]

I think it's far less of a big deal now than it used to be when I was younger. Panty lines and bra straps were absolutely not supposed to show -- but people are far more casual about that sort of thing now.

 

Part of me thinks VPL is more noticeable now because clothing manufacturers are trying to get away with thinner and thinner fabrics.  I think this was less of a problem before spandex was a thing that was included in every fabric.

[marbel]

People worried about VPL well before Spanx arrived. I remember worrying about it in high school; I graduated in 1974.

 

To me it just looks sloppy.  Underpants aren't meant to be seen.  When they or the trousers over them are too tight, or the trouser material is too thin, they show, and they're not supposed to. It breaks up the line of the trousers and just doesn't look good.

 

I don't see it as a "double standard" with regard to men's clothing.  I don't think in my life I have ever seen VPL on a man. Maybe it's because their trousers tend to be thicker material.  it's not a problem with denim jeans for anyone - unless they are the real thin denim, or jeggings.

 

In my experience women are much harder on themselves and other women when it comes to clothing and appearance in general.  

 

Same with bra straps.  It's not meant to show, that's all. On men, a t-shirt under a thin shirt is different, similar to camis under a thin blouse.  You can't help but see the outline. Though now, my daughter's generation, doesn't care about straps showing.  I think it's ugly, all those extra straps sticking out.  But they don't.  Fashions and standards change. 

 

 

[Bluegoat]

Part of me thinks VPL is more noticeable now because clothing manufacturers are trying to get away with thinner and thinner fabrics.  I think this was less of a problem before spandex was a thing that was included in every fabric.

 

Yes, and some pants are a little more clingy than used to be common, mainly I think because of new fabric technologies.  Even back in the 80's when I was wearing stirrup pants and leggings, they seemed to be made of a thicker sort of material.

 

I read the other day that skinny jeans are now on the out list, so I am wondering if leggings are going to follow - the silhouettes seem to be much less clingy than they have been for a while.