What have you done to serve the/a homeschooling community?

[Shellydon]

I run a large 135 family co-op.  It takes 15-20 hours per week of my time.  I teach at the co-op.  I speak at local events about homeschooling regularly.  I organize various field trips and other homeschooling activities for the local HSing community.  I speak monthly at homeschooling support meetings about various topics of interest like homeschooling children with learning disabilities, how to homeschool high school, how to get started homeschooling etc.

[kitten18]

I can't think of anything. We don't really hang out with other homeschoolers much.

[abba12]

I admire and thank you ladies who create and lead opportunities for homeschoolers, you're doing an awesome job. I just can't/won't do it. I love Lori's timeline. As grads, DH and I both came out of the pioneering generation. We don't really... connect... with modern homeschoolers very well. Things have changed a lot since those times and not necessarily for the better. And I guess you could say we're still suffering from our parents burnout. I tried to get involved in some homeschool support groups, having happy memories of attending myself when I was a child. It's a completely different environment now. One groups special snowflakes made me want to poke my eyes out, and there was no adult interaction because the parents were too busy micromanaging the children's interactions. The other group... well my kid plus about 3 more were almost given concussions while mothers called out 'please stop doing that now' for the 100th time to their kids who had no intention of stopping. Yeah, two opposite extremes. When I heard a local homeschool group had been banned from a museum.... nope. nope. nope. I have homeschooling friends, but I wont get involved with the 'community'. I don't fit in there.

 

It's not just child discipline, it's the parents. I did start a playgroup for families who intended to homeschool and thus didn't fit in with normal playgroup parents, and the flakeyness of the people attending drove me nuts. One particularly memorable day I ended up with all 4 families showing up, back to back, throughout the entire day for a 9am-11am meetup. Yes, one really did show up at 1pm 'just in case anyone was still here'. I ended up ending it and inviting the only reliable family over for weekly playdates. Unsurprisingly, I never heard from the other families again. And I saw a friend go to all the trouble of setting up a trip to a rail museum complete with tour guide. She invited about 6 families who said they would attend. On the day, my family was the only other one which showed up, and I think she still had to chase money from another family. I have a chronic mental illness, I have a limited number of 'spoons' for the day, and there's no way I'm spending those on this kind of flaky, high-demand, no commitment nonsense. The only things I organise are with genuine friends, and are closed events.

 

Having said that... when my friend organised the rail museum trip, I asked what she needed, brought a box of fruit, offered carpool services., I followed up on a deal she was trying to get to help with pricing because my internet was better, there was never any question once I said I would be there that I would, indeed, show up, and 15 minutes early just to ensure we were on time. I may not be willing to organise things myself or engage with the community beyond actual friends, but, because I know exactly how unreliable modern homeschoolers can be, if I am invited or join in with something I will be the first to volunteer to help out beyond participating. Maybe that helps a little with the organisers burnout, I don't know, I like to hope it does, and makes up for the guilt I feel over not being more active myself (remember, pioneer generation) 

[eternalsummer]

I ferried a homeschooled child to and from my daughter's homeschool music classes (violin, choir, and handbells) for a year.  She was a nice kid and on the whole I was happy to do it, but I didn't volunteer, I just kind of got volunteered.  It was not a big deal - maybe 30 minutes extra driving once a week.

 

Other than that, nada.

 

The reasons are mainly that I have a full time job I work from home and, more importantly, a baby and toddler (I've had a kid every 1.5 yrs for the last  6 years, so always a baby and toddler). I would love to start a book club or a math circle or something, but I don't know how I'd do it - they couldn't come over here as we keep weird hours and work from home, and I just can't figure out how I'd wrangle the toddler and baby at the library (while also running whatever activity it is).

 

Driving kids around I can do, and paying for things I can do. When DD was in the Waldorf charter, I did a lot of sending money and supplies instead of volunteering to help with cooking class - at this time in my life, money is what I have and time isn't.

 

When my littlest is about 4, if we are still homeschooling, I can see doing a lot more in the way of organizing and hosting and etc.

 

Also, we are still pretty new to homeschooling and aren't part of any community at all.  We move a lot and it is hard to break into the HSing communities in the places I've lived (at least that's my experience).  So how would I go about starting something?  Who would I tell?  Would I just put up flyers on phone posts?  I dunno, seems kind of unlikely.

 

 

 

The lady running the HS orchestra/choir/handbells program quit the year after we were there.  She had been doing it for decades, and I think she was ready to retire, but she also seemed to be pretty mad on the whole with us HS moms.  I didn't quite get it - she wanted us to fundraise more, I think, but I wondered why she didn't just charge more for the classes (They were dirt cheap) or maybe charge on a sliding scale if she wanted freer access?

[Bluegoat]

I ferried a homeschooled child to and from my daughter's homeschool music classes (violin, choir, and handbells) for a year.  She was a nice kid and on the whole I was happy to do it, but I didn't volunteer, I just kind of got volunteered.  It was not a big deal - maybe 30 minutes extra driving once a week.

 

Other than that, nada.

 

The reasons are mainly that I have a full time job I work from home and, more importantly, a baby and toddler (I've had a kid every 1.5 yrs for the last  6 years, so always a baby and toddler). I would love to start a book club or a math circle or something, but I don't know how I'd do it - they couldn't come over here as we keep weird hours and work from home, and I just can't figure out how I'd wrangle the toddler and baby at the library (while also running whatever activity it is).

 

Driving kids around I can do, and paying for things I can do. When DD was in the Waldorf charter, I did a lot of sending money and supplies instead of volunteering to help with cooking class - at this time in my life, money is what I have and time isn't.

 

When my littlest is about 4, if we are still homeschooling, I can see doing a lot more in the way of organizing and hosting and etc.

 

Also, we are still pretty new to homeschooling and aren't part of any community at all.  We move a lot and it is hard to break into the HSing communities in the places I've lived (at least that's my experience).  So how would I go about starting something?  Who would I tell?  Would I just put up flyers on phone posts?  I dunno, seems kind of unlikely.

 

 

 

The lady running the HS orchestra/choir/handbells program quit the year after we were there.  She had been doing it for decades, and I think she was ready to retire, but she also seemed to be pretty mad on the whole with us HS moms.  I didn't quite get it - she wanted us to fundraise more, I think, but I wondered why she didn't just charge more for the classes (They were dirt cheap) or maybe charge on a sliding scale if she wanted freer access?

 

I've found having smaller kids has limited my involvement as well - I feel like my younger kids will likely be able to do more homeschool stuff than the elder ones.  I just couldn't hang around those activities with toddlers and babies, but parents were expected to stay. 

[mschickie]

What was the activity/event/opportunity?

 

Taught at our one co-op

Board member for our homeschool support group

Co-op board member

Speaker at support meetings

What was the age/ability range?

All ages

Where was it? (Local, more than an hour travel time, out of state, out of country)

about 20 min

What was the financial cost to participants?

$60 to join the support group.  The co-op costs vary as well as any field trips or events put on by the group.

What kind of coordinating/planning tasks did you do?

Over the years I have done:

Co-op set clean/room coordinator

Co-op aides coordinator

Co-op class description coordinator

Co-op director

Chapter volunteer coordinator

Used curriculum sale co-coordinator

Help organize and run various chapter events (picnic, square dance, ice cream social, guest speakers, chapter meetings...)

 

What kind of prep or participation was required of the student and parents who participated?

We ask members to help out at one event a year for the chapter (bring snacks, help set up or clean up, run a field trip...)

For the co-op folks need to help set up and clean up 4x and then either teach or help out a certain number of periods depending on how long they are there.

How many homeschooling families were invited?

Our chapter normally ranges between 130-150 families.

How many showed up and participated?

It depends on the event.  We have about 70 families in the co-op.  The square dance is always popular.  Some of the chapter meetings are small with only 5-10 members coming and others are much larger depending on the topic we are discussing.

One secondary question is what is  your perspective on providing that/those opportunities now that you can look back on it.  What should someone new to providing opportunities to a/the community need to know before doing it so their expectations are realistic?

Do not expect to reach everyone or have everyone participate.  Families have busy schedules and every homeschool looks different so what one family wants is not always what another family wants

What advice would pass on to someone else considering a similar event?

Realize if you help or serve only one family, that is ok you made a difference for them.

Would you do something differently if you could do it over again or how have you done it differently since then?   Depends on the event.  We are constantly looking at ways of improving and get feed back from our members.

Another secondary question is what was your personal situation when you provided the opportunity?

I am not sure what you mean

 

About how long had you been homeschooling when you provided this opportunity?

I have been helping in one way or another since my 3rd year of homeschooling.  

How many kids did you have at the time you provided the opportunity?

2

 

What age rage were your children? (Infant/toddler, preschooler, elementary, middle school, high school)When we started becoming involved sd was in 11th grade and dd was only 5.

Are you an introvert, extrovert or a mix that leans more one direction?

I am what is referred to as a highly sensitive person and become very shy in new situations.  Once I am comfortable I am much more out going.

[HS Mom in NC]

 

That focus shifts what a group does. Instead of meeting socially to talk and encourage and share ideas about how to teach whatever, many homeschoolers are simply asking where can I sign up for x.

 

With that shift in focus, the wants and needs of those 2 groups of moms are very different. When you have different individuals with very different goals, you have less cohesive community.

 

Maybe that is what you are seeing?

 

But how does that not make the same issues apply?  People want someone other than themselves to do X.  Most of those same people will never be the people who volunteer to teach other people's kids (in addition to their own) X.  People complain to other homeschoolers and homeschool leaders that there are not other people providing an opportunity for them to sign up for X. 

 

It just doesn't matter what X is.  People have a disconnect that people providing X are homeschoolers just like them.  If they want more opportunities to choose from, more people who aren't providing opportunities will have to fill the void because those who are aren't the ones contributing to the problem.

 

What I'm seeing is people demanding of others what they aren't willing to do themselves.  Where do they think opportunities for X come from?  From people volunteering to provide X.  They insist they should never be expected to the person volunteering to provide X or Y or Z or Q or F or M or J or....  Many homeschoolers seem afraid to question the complainers about their underlying faulty assumption that it's perfectly fine for people to continue to participate in X and usually a little Y and Z and G, without ever providing some X or B or D or S or R for others at some point in their homeschooling careers and that it's exacerbating the exact problem they complain about.  The solution to the problem they complain about is people who have been insisting they are not responsible for ever providing anything to provide something now and then.  If you do, accusations of being judgmental and snobbish, etc. come out or reasons to not help like the age of their children, their inexperience homeschooling, their personality types, or whatever.  Yet as we can see in this thread, and as my personal experience has shown me, people with all ages of kids at all stages of homeschooling are providing things for others at times.

 

Or their unreasonable demands of insisting people provide X for them without at some point providing any letter from the alphabet soup to others is a symptom of unreasonableness in some of them when participating in X. They show up late, don't follow through on assignments, don't participate fully, don't cooperate with the leadership and such at X and then complain people just aren't providing much X anymore and someone, anyone but them, needs to solve that problem.  If people respond about the behavioral issues that caused X to end, there are accusations discriminating against people with different parenting philosophies, different educational philosophies, etc. I'm Judgy McJudgerson if I dare explain the problem and propose the obvious solution. "It sounds like the groups available to you aren't a good fit.  Why not start you own?" or "It sounds like there aren't any groups at all available to you.  Why don't you start your own?"

 

I honestly believe there must be ways to preemptively with a lot of this, by setting much clearer expectations and making some reasonable demands with newbies (and some vets) but it requires better understanding the different mindsets and explicitly stating which mindset the group has and that those with the same mindset are good fits for the group and those with a different mindset are not. You can insist you'll never provide anything, but don't assume every group out there will allow you membership.

 

There is a very large co-op here that requires new members to first provide an activity to the group and only after they have, allows them to participate in an activity run by someone else.  As I mentioned there are groups that require a contribution within the first year to participate in the next year. Lists include things like physically setting up and putting away chairs, sweeping up, taking out trash, setting up the field trip and field trip sign up page online and collecting money, sometimes it's bringing snacks, sometimes it's teaching a class, whatever. I think classes and co-ops would be better off explicitly stating that their group is for parents who insist their children arrive on time, attend all the classes except for illnesses, fully participate in class, turn in assignments on time, meet stated behavioral standards, etc. Students and/or parents who don't will no longer be allowed to attend. If homeschoolers are too afraid of pointing out the elephant in the room, then their passivity will cause opportunities for everyone to die out or all groups will become stealth, by private invitation only, don't talk about the group in front of anyone who isn't invited, groups.  

 

Convention workshops need classes on how to decide if a group is for you. Are you fine with the content, approach, schedule, location, fees, behavioral standards, etc.?  No, you're upset by one of those?  Then it's not for you. Do you know if the primary focus is academic or social?  Find out.  If you don't agree, it's not for you. A significant percentage need to be taught how to operate within a group. Decisions can only be made for the group, not what suits each individual.  Either be OK with what the group has going, or don't join the group.  Customization if for when you homeschool your kids, you don't get to customize how someone else runs their group or class. They need workshops on how to contribute on a large scale and how to contribute on a small, more simple scale (usually the most needed.)   People need to learn how to lay out a paid class or activity  for other homeschoolers and communicate things like content, focus, materials, scheduling, expectations for parents and students, syllabus, prerequisite skills, etc. so a parent can have a very good idea of it's a good or bad fit before they sign up for it.

 

People are so terrified of being accused of being mean, exclusive, snobbish, judgemental, and cliquish they allow these problems to continue on and get worse. To solve problems, you have to clearly define them.  To have someone meet expectations, you have to clearly define them.

[8filltheheart]

But how does that not make the same issues apply? People want someone other than themselves to do X. Most of those same people will never be the people who volunteer to teach other people's kids (in addition to their own) X. People complain to other homeschoolers and homeschool leaders that there are not other people providing an opportunity for them to sign up for X.

 

It just doesn't matter what X is. People have a disconnect that people providing X are homeschoolers just like them. If they want more opportunities to choose from, more people who aren't providing opportunities will have to fill the void because those who are aren't the ones contributing to the problem.

 

What I'm seeing is people demanding of others what they aren't willing to do themselves. Where do they think opportunities for X come from? From people volunteering to provide X. They insist they should never be expected to the person volunteering to provide X or Y or Z or Q or F or M or J or.... Many homeschoolers seem afraid to question the complainers about their underlying faulty assumption that it's perfectly fine for people to continue to participate in X and usually a little Y and Z and G, without ever providing some X or B or D or S or R for others at some point in their homeschooling careers and that it's exacerbating the exact problem they complain about. The solution to the problem they complain about is people who have been insisting they are not responsible for ever providing anything to provide something now and then. If you do, accusations of being judgmental and snobbish, etc. come out or reasons to not help like the age of their children, their inexperience homeschooling, their personality types, or whatever. Yet as we can see in this thread, and as my personal experience has shown me, people with all ages of kids at all stages of homeschooling are providing things for others at times.

 

Or their unreasonable demands of insisting people provide X for them without at some point providing any letter from the alphabet soup to others is a symptom of unreasonableness in some of them when participating in X. They show up late, don't follow through on assignments, don't participate fully, don't cooperate with the leadership and such at X and then complain people just aren't providing much X anymore and someone, anyone but them, needs to solve that problem. If people respond about the behavioral issues that caused X to end, there are accusations discriminating against people with different parenting philosophies, different educational philosophies, etc. I'm Judgy McJudgerson if I dare explain the problem and propose the obvious solution. "It sounds like the groups available to you aren't a good fit. Why not start you own?" or "It sounds like there aren't any groups at all available to you. Why don't you start your own?"

 

I honestly believe there must be ways to preemptively with a lot of this, by setting much clearer expectations and making some reasonable demands with newbies (and some vets) but it requires better understanding the different mindsets and explicitly stating which mindset the group has and that those with the same mindset are good fits for the group and those with a different mindset are not. You can insist you'll never provide anything, but don't assume every group out there will allow you membership.

 

There is a very large co-op here that requires new members to first provide an activity to the group and only after they have, allows them to participate in an activity run by someone else. As I mentioned there are groups that require a contribution within the first year to participate in the next year. Lists include things like physically setting up and putting away chairs, sweeping up, taking out trash, setting up the field trip and field trip sign up page online and collecting money, sometimes it's bringing snacks, sometimes it's teaching a class, whatever. I think classes and co-ops would be better off explicitly stating that their group is for parents who insist their children arrive on time, attend all the classes except for illnesses, fully participate in class, turn in assignments on time, meet stated behavioral standards, etc. Students and/or parents who don't will no longer be allowed to attend. If homeschoolers are too afraid of pointing out the elephant in the room, then their passivity will cause opportunities for everyone to die out or all groups will become stealth, by private invitation only, don't talk about the group in front of anyone who isn't invited, groups.

 

Convention workshops need classes on how to decide if a group is for you. Are you fine with the content, approach, schedule, location, fees, behavioral standards, etc.? No, you're upset by one of those? Then it's not for you. Do you know if the primary focus is academic or social? Find out. If you don't agree, it's not for you. A significant percentage need to be taught how to operate within a group. Decisions can only be made for the group, not what suits each individual. Either be OK with what the group has going, or don't join the group. Customization if for when you homeschool your kids, you don't get to customize how someone else runs their group or class. They need workshops on how to contribute on a large scale and how to contribute on a small, more simple scale (usually the most needed.) People need to learn how to lay out a paid class or activity for other homeschoolers and communicate things like content, focus, materials, scheduling, expectations for parents and students, syllabus, prerequisite skills, etc. so a parent can have a very good idea of it's a good or bad fit before they sign up for it.

 

People are so terrified of being accused of being mean, exclusive, snobbish, judgemental, and cliquish they allow these problems to continue on and get worse. To solve problems, you have to clearly define them. To have someone meet expectations, you have to clearly define them.

Your entire post demonstrates the difference in issues. One is just getting together to visit, chat, share. The other is entering with an expectation of getting something from the group.

 

When I used to meet with homeschoolers, there was zero expectation other than an opportunity to visit and let kids hang out together. We talked about homeschooling some of the time, but about life in general as well.

 

Today the conversations center around what is offered, where do you go, who do you use, what group serves you this purpose.... It is a completely different mindset. When you talk about doing everything at home to homeschoolers, the response is "I'm not qualified/capable of doing that on my own. I need to outsource."

 

From the outside--not having started from wanting to use a group's resources--there is a distinction. I look to accomplish things at home first and foremost. Outsourcing is my last choice and it is not from other homeschoolers that I look for what I want. I want professionals or highly qualified individuals if the teacher is not going to be me.

 

Not saying my way is right, but philosophically it is very different. It would never even occur to me to ask the questions you are asking above bc I have zero desire for that sort of environment.

 

I'm on my phone waiting for my dd, so excuse my typos and autocorrect.

Edited January 18, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[Guest]

I really don't think people need classes about how to "evaluate groups."

 

Who are "homeschool leaders?"

 

If people are chronically flaky, they're jerks. I really don't think there's more to it.

[HS Mom in NC]

Your entire post demonstrates the difference in issues. One is just getting together to visit, chat, share. The other is entering with an expectation of getting something from the group.

 

No, plenty of people complain that other people don't invite them to get together to chat and visit, but when asked if they invite other people to meet up and chat, they say that haven't done that.  So it's exactly the same issue.

 

When I used to meet with homeschoolers, there was zero expectation other than an opportunity to visit and let kids hang out together. We talked about homeschooling some of the time, but about life in general as well.

 

Today the conversations center around what is offered, where do you go, who do you use, what group serves you this purpose.... It is a completely different mindset. When you talk about doing everything at home to homeschoolers, the response is "I'm not qualified/capable of doing that on my own. I need to outsource."

 

No, homeschoolers have been offering all sorts of group activities (social, academic and enrichment) on small and large scales from early on.  You may not have chosen to be a part of them in your own homeschooling journey, but that doesn't mean they haven't existed all along. This thread is full of examples of homeschoolers using and providing group opportunities for groups for decades now and people are lamenting that newbies aren't stepping up to continue on.  So yes, the demand for outside activities has been around and been met for a long time now;the demand is not new.  I think the only new thing is the attitude of increasing numbers of newbies that they should never be expected to contribute others while they expect others to contribute to their children.

 

From the outside--not having started from wanting to use a group's resources--there is a distinction. I look to accomplish things at home first and foremost. Outsourcing is my last choice and it is not from other homeschoolers that I look for what I want. I want professionals or highly qualified individuals if the teacher is not going to be me.

 

But no one on this thread or the others is talking about only professionals or highly qualified individuals being the only thing the complainers demand. They're more than happy to sign up for things non-professionals made available to children other than their own: classes, field trips, park days, etc.  We're talking about the entire range of social, academic and enrichment options that have always been around but are dwindling.  You're talking about a subset, not the whole.  The whole is fading away because fewer people feel compelled to contribute to other children in addition to their own while they participate in opportunities other people provide to children other than their own.

 

Not saying my way is right, but philosophically it is very different. It would never even occur to me to ask the questions you are asking above bc I have zero desire for that sort of environment.

 

But the entire focus of this thread is about the people who DO want a group environment and complain when fewer group environments are available and then complain when the obvious solutions to the problem are presented to them by the people they're complaining to.  Or they complain about the ones they freely entered into. 

 

How do we teach people coming in out get their own needs met?  Homeschooling conventions used to be all about that. Is this problem learned helplessness?  Is this problem a lack of understanding the reality of homeschooling in general?  Is this misinformation being spread-someone convincing people they can be entirely passive and give nothing but get whatever their hearts desire? You may not be affected by this because you opt not to participate in group activities, but it's a constant source of trouble for those who are involved in group activities.

 

I'm on my phone waiting for my dd, so excuse my typos and autocorrect.

 

[Soror]

1- 1 yr of monthly science club- I handpicked the kids planned it out and dh and I ran it

2 yrs- coaching Robotics- -a million hrs here

3 ish yrs co--leading the local informal co-op- although a couple of years I was more the primary than co-leader

odds and ends- field trips, book club, nature study, culture studies and other things I can't remember

answered countless emails and phone calls from those considering hs or new to hs

answered online and rl questions about various hs details

invited people to my house to talk curriculum or met them places- although after that last meeting which I had to cram in an already full week I thought- I'm not doing this anymore. I guess I just don't have the heart to be a hs ambassador. 

 

I've done all the details from coordination, organization, clean-up, and leading.

 

I don't think anyone has any obligation to do anything at all for the local hs "community." BUT don't whine and complain about what other people aren't doing for you Just as you don't have an obligation to serve others for free other hs'ers have any obligation to do things for you. 

A few friends and I have been doing events with a small group and that has gone much better. We have similar goals, similar aged kids and similar expectations about people pitching in. We've been throwing around starting a small co-op, keeping it small is a huge priority, more people is more to manage and none of us are looking for some huge thing.

 

My time and energy are limited too. I went through a period where they were really limited and even though things are much better I am very careful about overextending myself again.

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by soror

[Lang Syne Boardie]

But how does that not make the same issues apply?  People want someone other than themselves to do X.  Most of those same people will never be the people who volunteer to teach other people's kids (in addition to their own) X.  People complain to other homeschoolers and homeschool leaders that there are not other people providing an opportunity for them to sign up for X. 

 

It just doesn't matter what X is.  People have a disconnect that people providing X are homeschoolers just like them.  If they want more opportunities to choose from, more people who aren't providing opportunities will have to fill the void because those who are aren't the ones contributing to the problem.

 

What I'm seeing is people demanding of others what they aren't willing to do themselves.  Where do they think opportunities for X come from?  From people volunteering to provide X.  They insist they should never be expected to the person volunteering to provide X or Y or Z or Q or F or M or J or....  Many homeschoolers seem afraid to question the complainers about their underlying faulty assumption that it's perfectly fine for people to continue to participate in X and usually a little Y and Z and G, without ever providing some X or B or D or S or R for others at some point in their homeschooling careers and that it's exacerbating the exact problem they complain about.  The solution to the problem they complain about is people who have been insisting they are not responsible for ever providing anything to provide something now and then.  If you do, accusations of being judgmental and snobbish, etc. come out or reasons to not help like the age of their children, their inexperience homeschooling, their personality types, or whatever.  Yet as we can see in this thread, and as my personal experience has shown me, people with all ages of kids at all stages of homeschooling are providing things for others at times.

 

Or their unreasonable demands of insisting people provide X for them without at some point providing any letter from the alphabet soup to others is a symptom of unreasonableness in some of them when participating in X. They show up late, don't follow through on assignments, don't participate fully, don't cooperate with the leadership and such at X and then complain people just aren't providing much X anymore and someone, anyone but them, needs to solve that problem.  If people respond about the behavioral issues that caused X to end, there are accusations discriminating against people with different parenting philosophies, different educational philosophies, etc. I'm Judgy McJudgerson if I dare explain the problem and propose the obvious solution. "It sounds like the groups available to you aren't a good fit.  Why not start you own?" or "It sounds like there aren't any groups at all available to you.  Why don't you start your own?"

 

I honestly believe there must be ways to preemptively with a lot of this, by setting much clearer expectations and making some reasonable demands with newbies (and some vets) but it requires better understanding the different mindsets and explicitly stating which mindset the group has and that those with the same mindset are good fits for the group and those with a different mindset are not. You can insist you'll never provide anything, but don't assume every group out there will allow you membership.

 

There is a very large co-op here that requires new members to first provide an activity to the group and only after they have, allows them to participate in an activity run by someone else.  As I mentioned there are groups that require a contribution within the first year to participate in the next year. Lists include things like physically setting up and putting away chairs, sweeping up, taking out trash, setting up the field trip and field trip sign up page online and collecting money, sometimes it's bringing snacks, sometimes it's teaching a class, whatever. I think classes and co-ops would be better off explicitly stating that their group is for parents who insist their children arrive on time, attend all the classes except for illnesses, fully participate in class, turn in assignments on time, meet stated behavioral standards, etc. Students and/or parents who don't will no longer be allowed to attend. If homeschoolers are too afraid of pointing out the elephant in the room, then their passivity will cause opportunities for everyone to die out or all groups will become stealth, by private invitation only, don't talk about the group in front of anyone who isn't invited, groups.  

 

Convention workshops need classes on how to decide if a group is for you. Are you fine with the content, approach, schedule, location, fees, behavioral standards, etc.?  No, you're upset by one of those?  Then it's not for you. Do you know if the primary focus is academic or social?  Find out.  If you don't agree, it's not for you. A significant percentage need to be taught how to operate within a group. Decisions can only be made for the group, not what suits each individual.  Either be OK with what the group has going, or don't join the group.  Customization if for when you homeschool your kids, you don't get to customize how someone else runs their group or class. They need workshops on how to contribute on a large scale and how to contribute on a small, more simple scale (usually the most needed.)   People need to learn how to lay out a paid class or activity  for other homeschoolers and communicate things like content, focus, materials, scheduling, expectations for parents and students, syllabus, prerequisite skills, etc. so a parent can have a very good idea of it's a good or bad fit before they sign up for it.

 

People are so terrified of being accused of being mean, exclusive, snobbish, judgemental, and cliquish they allow these problems to continue on and get worse. To solve problems, you have to clearly define them.  To have someone meet expectations, you have to clearly define them.

 

 

I'm with 8filltheheart. Why are these people so hell-bent on creating de facto schools, with all the administrative headaches but without the accountability or compensation for those doing the work? For some of us, this is not homeschooling and never has been.

 

I think these large co-ops and weekly day schools should look to the UMS and cottage school people for guidance on how to run their organizations. Oldschool hs'ers have no idea how to solve these problems because we have opted out of institutionalized education for our kids.

 

Large co-ops with hired teachers are neither private schools nor homeschools, but somewhere in between, and should communicate with others involved in such schools to troubleshoot common problems and share universally applicable solutions.

 

These aren't homeschooling problems, even though the students may be homeschooled when they are outside of class.

 

This is my (newly) radical opinion.

[8filltheheart]

When I started homeschooling there were only 5 families in our entire county homeschooling, and no, group experiences didn't exist.  We all did our own thing.  I think the "group" thing early on was probably location dependent and tended to be amg certain religious groups. Before the internet, most homeschoolers were pretty isolated.  The internet opened up networking in a different way.

 

FWIW, I am interpretting your posts as being upset that people don't volunteer to do things you think they should.  If people don't do the work for them and you don't want them to freeload, create requirements and enforce them or don't offer them. It is a choice to offer what you think people want.  No one has to. You do not have an obligation to the "homeschooling community." You have an obligation to your family.  Anything else is being generous.  

 

Keeping homeschooling a legal option is the only responsibility I see as "community" in homeschooling.

 

FWIW, you have misrepresented what I said I do.  When did I say I didn't participate in group activities?  I said I won't ever be involved in co-ops or activities offered during the day.    I am actively involved in our group in social activities that happen at night or the weekend.  I offer plenty of planning help to other homeschoolers and I offer homeschooling to college seminars.  Simply bc they don't meet your definition of "participating in group activities" does not negate their existence.

[Lori D.]

 

How do we teach people coming in out get their own needs met? 

 

Gently, as frustrating as it is to repeatedly have to deal with this attitude, I think this is something you will probably just have to let go of. It's not the job of a homeschool community, or any volunteer organization, to train other adults into less self-focused behavior.

 

I am sorry you're repeatedly having such a frustrating response to all of the time and effort you've poured in to your homeschooling community to make good things happen not only for your family but for other homeschooling families as well. Just me, but I think about all you can do is reflective listen. redirect. rinse. repeat. until they either get a clue, or go away.

 

They demand X.

 

"[reflective listening:] Sounds like you would really like X to be offered. We've put your request for X to the group, and no one here is able or qualified to oversee X. [redirect:] Since no one here is able to make X happen, the only options open now are either you oversee X to make sure it happens, or you'll need to outsource X with someone in the community or online."

 

They complain.

 

"[reflective listening:] Gee, you sound frustrated that we can't provide X for you. Sadly, that's just the way it goes with an all-volunteer group: sometimes the group members can provide the things we want, and sometimes they can't. [redirect:] Hey, here's an idea: you can make sure X happens by finding someone in the community who does X and hire them. Or, do an internet search for someone online who offers X and hire their expert services."

 

They get mad.

 

"[reflective listening] I can hear how unhappy you are that we aren't able to provide X for you. We're all volunteers here just like you. [redirect] You know, one way to make X happen is by hiring someone from the community or online."

 

Rinse. Repeat.

 

 

Wishing you all the best! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Lori D.

[8filltheheart]

 

Gently, as frustrating as it is to repeatedly have to deal with this attitude, I think this is something you will probably just have to let go of. It's not the job of a homeschool community, or any volunteer organization, to train other adults into less self-focused behavior.

 

I am sorry you're repeatedly having such a frustrating response to all of the time and effort you've poured in to your homeschooling community to make good things happen not only for your family but for other homeschooling families as well. Just me, but I think about all you can do is reflective listen. redirect. rinse. repeat. until they either get a clue, or go away.

 

They demand X.

 

"[reflective listening:] Sounds like you would really like X to be offered. We've put your request for X to the group, and no one here is able or qualified to oversee X. [redirect:] Since no one here is able to make X happen, the only options open now are either you oversee X to make sure it happens, or you'll need to outsource X with someone in the community or online."

 

They complain.

 

"[reflective listening:] Gee, you sound frustrated that we can't provide X for you. Sadly, that's just the way it goes with an all-volunteer group: sometimes the group members can provide the things we want, and sometimes they can't. [redirect:] Hey, here's an idea: you can make sure X happens by finding someone in the community who does X and hire them. Or, do an internet search for someone online who offers X and hire their expert services."

 

They get mad.

 

"[reflective listening] I can hear how unhappy you are that we aren't able to provide X for you. We're all volunteers here just like you. [redirect] You know, one way to make X happen is by hiring someone from the community or online."

 

Rinse. Repeat.

 

 

Wishing you all the best! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

Hey, Lori, can you change your post??  It has that quote as attributed to me, but it is not mine!  :)

[regentrude]

They're more than happy to sign up for things non-professionals made available to children other than their own: classes, field trips, park days, etc.  We're talking about the entire range of social, academic and enrichment options that have always been around but are dwindling.

 

I am confused why you would even need a volunteer to organize park day.

Our homeschool group has a fixed day of the week: Thursday 12-3 is social group/playgroup./park day. Whoever comes, comes. The only responsibility is to decide on a location - sometimes that is discussed via fb group, sometimes a person simply puts a suggestion on the calendar. Done.

Field trips: whoever wants to go announces they are going to xyz and ask whether anybody wants to join. They meet at the location. If there are enough people for a group discount, great - if not, then not. Done. No organizer needed.

You can have a vibrant social life without "organizers" or "volunteers". I do not see myself as a "volunteer" when I ask my friends over to my house to hang out. That's how the majority of socializing in our hs group happens: people just get together. No schedule, no organizing, no agenda. "Do the preteens all want to come over to my house after park? You can stay and hang out or pick them up at 5." "Anybody want to come over and play board games with my kids? I baked cookies." "I am going to walk at xyz park. Anybody want to come and have a picnic?"

 

 

What I'm seeing is people demanding of others what they aren't willing to do themselves.  Where do they think opportunities for X come from?  From people volunteering to provide X.

 

Not necessarily. Sometimes, instead of relying on volunteers, it makes more sense to patronize a business that is marketing to homeschoolers.

The local art studio runs inexpensive art classes. The lady who owns it sets her fee, the participants pay. Done.

A music studio offers homeschool classes. Participants pay. Done.

The local rec center offers homeschool PE. Participants pay. Done.

 

The only event with volunteer issues was coop.

 

I am with 8FillTheHeart when it comes to classes. I don't want some volunteer mom teach a class to my kids. I want a qualified teacher who has the subject expertise to teach those things where I do not posses the subject expertise. I am prepared to pay for their time and expertise and am very selective what I outsource. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by regentrude

[Jean in Newcastle]

Your entire post demonstrates the difference in issues. One is just getting together to visit, chat, share. The other is entering with an expectation of getting something from the group.

 

When I used to meet with homeschoolers, there was zero expectation other than an opportunity to visit and let kids hang out together. We talked about homeschooling some of the time, but about life in general as well.

 

Today the conversations center around what is offered, where do you go, who do you use, what group serves you this purpose.... It is a completely different mindset. When you talk about doing everything at home to homeschoolers, the response is "I'm not qualified/capable of doing that on my own. I need to outsource."

 

From the outside--not having started from wanting to use a group's resources--there is a distinction. I look to accomplish things at home first and foremost. Outsourcing is my last choice and it is not from other homeschoolers that I look for what I want. I want professionals or highly qualified individuals if the teacher is not going to be me.

 

Not saying my way is right, but philosophically it is very different. It would never even occur to me to ask the questions you are asking above bc I have zero desire for that sort of environment.

 

I'm on my phone waiting for my dd, so excuse my typos and autocorrect.

 

 

I'm with 8filltheheart. Why are these people so hell-bent on creating de facto schools, with all the administrative headaches but without the accountability or compensation for those doing the work? For some of us, this is not homeschooling and never has been.

 

I think these large co-ops and weekly day schools should look to the UMS and cottage school people for guidance on how to run their organizations. Oldschool hs'ers have no idea how to solve these problems because we have opted out of institutionalized education for our kids.

 

Large co-ops with hired teachers are neither private schools nor homeschools, but somewhere in between, and should communicate with others involved in such schools to troubleshoot common problems and share universally applicable solutions.

 

These aren't homeschooling problems, even though the students may be homeschooled when they are outside of class.

 

This is my (newly) radical opinion.

YES!  Sorry for shouting but yes, yes, yes! 

[freesia]

But how does that not make the same issues apply?  People want someone other than themselves to do X.  Most of those same people will never be the people who volunteer to teach other people's kids (in addition to their own) X.  People complain to other homeschoolers and homeschool leaders that there are not other people providing an opportunity for them to sign up for X. 

 

It just doesn't matter what X is.  People have a disconnect that people providing X are homeschoolers just like them.  If they want more opportunities to choose from, more people who aren't providing opportunities will have to fill the void because those who are aren't the ones contributing to the problem.

 

What I'm seeing is people demanding of others what they aren't willing to do themselves.  Where do they think opportunities for X come from?  From people volunteering to provide X.  They insist they should never be expected to the person volunteering to provide X or Y or Z or Q or F or M or J or....  Many homeschoolers seem afraid to question the complainers about their underlying faulty assumption that it's perfectly fine for people to continue to participate in X and usually a little Y and Z and G, without ever providing some X or B or D or S or R for others at some point in their homeschooling careers and that it's exacerbating the exact problem they complain about.  The solution to the problem they complain about is people who have been insisting they are not responsible for ever providing anything to provide something now and then.  If you do, accusations of being judgmental and snobbish, etc. come out or reasons to not help like the age of their children, their inexperience homeschooling, their personality types, or whatever.  Yet as we can see in this thread, and as my personal experience has shown me, people with all ages of kids at all stages of homeschooling are providing things for others at times.

 

Or their unreasonable demands of insisting people provide X for them without at some point providing any letter from the alphabet soup to others is a symptom of unreasonableness in some of them when participating in X. They show up late, don't follow through on assignments, don't participate fully, don't cooperate with the leadership and such at X and then complain people just aren't providing much X anymore and someone, anyone but them, needs to solve that problem.  If people respond about the behavioral issues that caused X to end, there are accusations discriminating against people with different parenting philosophies, different educational philosophies, etc. I'm Judgy McJudgerson if I dare explain the problem and propose the obvious solution. "It sounds like the groups available to you aren't a good fit.  Why not start you own?" or "It sounds like there aren't any groups at all available to you.  Why don't you start your own?"

 

I honestly believe there must be ways to preemptively with a lot of this, by setting much clearer expectations and making some reasonable demands with newbies (and some vets) but it requires better understanding the different mindsets and explicitly stating which mindset the group has and that those with the same mindset are good fits for the group and those with a different mindset are not. You can insist you'll never provide anything, but don't assume every group out there will allow you membership.

 

There is a very large co-op here that requires new members to first provide an activity to the group and only after they have, allows them to participate in an activity run by someone else.  As I mentioned there are groups that require a contribution within the first year to participate in the next year. Lists include things like physically setting up and putting away chairs, sweeping up, taking out trash, setting up the field trip and field trip sign up page online and collecting money, sometimes it's bringing snacks, sometimes it's teaching a class, whatever. I think classes and co-ops would be better off explicitly stating that their group is for parents who insist their children arrive on time, attend all the classes except for illnesses, fully participate in class, turn in assignments on time, meet stated behavioral standards, etc. Students and/or parents who don't will no longer be allowed to attend. If homeschoolers are too afraid of pointing out the elephant in the room, then their passivity will cause opportunities for everyone to die out or all groups will become stealth, by private invitation only, don't talk about the group in front of anyone who isn't invited, groups.  

 

Convention workshops need classes on how to decide if a group is for you. Are you fine with the content, approach, schedule, location, fees, behavioral standards, etc.?  No, you're upset by one of those?  Then it's not for you. Do you know if the primary focus is academic or social?  Find out.  If you don't agree, it's not for you. A significant percentage need to be taught how to operate within a group. Decisions can only be made for the group, not what suits each individual.  Either be OK with what the group has going, or don't join the group.  Customization if for when you homeschool your kids, you don't get to customize how someone else runs their group or class. They need workshops on how to contribute on a large scale and how to contribute on a small, more simple scale (usually the most needed.)   People need to learn how to lay out a paid class or activity  for other homeschoolers and communicate things like content, focus, materials, scheduling, expectations for parents and students, syllabus, prerequisite skills, etc. so a parent can have a very good idea of it's a good or bad fit before they sign up for it.

 

People are so terrified of being accused of being mean, exclusive, snobbish, judgemental, and cliquish they allow these problems to continue on and get worse. To solve problems, you have to clearly define them.  To have someone meet expectations, you have to clearly define them.

 

Well, our co-op was very clear about participation.  Everyone had to teach and be an aid and do some other service. It didn't stop the complaints (which is something when you are complaining to someone who is doing that and much more!).  It didn't stop the martyr complex/ we are holier than you complaints--I know I agreed to come and you said my participation was necessary, but my dh says you are not being Christian b/c you said we can't join if we want to take a month long mission trip in the middle of our commitment.  Blah!  As if it is "Christian" to make others work twice as hard so you can go off on a mission trip when you knew the commitment ahead of time. 

 

It did drive me to the invitation only model.

 

But I don't think that this is limited to homeschooling at all or even nowadays.  There have always been self absorbed people. 

 

And, for the record, I totally get that there are seasons when one can't volunteer and where one is barely getting by or when one has to pull back. I even get that you might not ever be able to offer anything.  It's the complaining that there aren't any field trips, but being unwilling to do anything, not even set up a park date.  If you are unable to do it, maybe other people are too.  If no one has the energy or time, then it can't happen.  That is sad, but true.

 

 

[Guest]

I don't even understand what "complaining there aren't any field trips" means in a HS context though.

 

Either get in your car and go to a place, or don't. Either meet up with ppl there, or don't.

[Bluegoat]

Your entire post demonstrates the difference in issues. One is just getting together to visit, chat, share. The other is entering with an expectation of getting something from the group.

 

When I used to meet with homeschoolers, there was zero expectation other than an opportunity to visit and let kids hang out together. We talked about homeschooling some of the time, but about life in general as well.

 

Today the conversations center around what is offered, where do you go, who do you use, what group serves you this purpose.... It is a completely different mindset. When you talk about doing everything at home to homeschoolers, the response is "I'm not qualified/capable of doing that on my own. I need to outsource."

 

From the outside--not having started from wanting to use a group's resources--there is a distinction. I look to accomplish things at home first and foremost. Outsourcing is my last choice and it is not from other homeschoolers that I look for what I want. I want professionals or highly qualified individuals if the teacher is not going to be me.

 

Not saying my way is right, but philosophically it is very different. It would never even occur to me to ask the questions you are asking above bc I have zero desire for that sort of environment.

 

I'm on my phone waiting for my dd, so excuse my typos and autocorrect.

 

What strikes me is that the current tendency is to an essentially consumer attitude, rather than a social one. 

[Bluegoat]

There are some events that need organization to happen, I'm not sure I buy the idea that everything should be casual or business based.

 

Although they are less important now, I think homeschool conferences used to fulfill a pretty useful function, especially in terms of allowing people to look at resources.  Things like science fairs are another - even kids doing great work at home can benefit from some special opportunities to work with others.  And a for-profit model for that seems a little odd.

 

But, I do think that if people are unwilling to help out altogether, it is ok for these things to disappear.  Maybe their role is less important.  I considered going to our conference last summer, but there were no speakers that interested me, so I'd have been paying about $40 to avoid what might have been the same in shipping fees.  So - I didn't bother.

[Peaceseeker]

Well then great business opportunities here...give them what they want and charge the heck out of it. Hire the moms willing to volunteer and pay them to teach instead. Maybe then it would cause less resentment. Then the newbies can decide if they liked the old model of low cost-high parent involvement activities better they can start them back.

 

I just do what I can do and try to give everyone else a whole lot of grace. Hopefully they are doing the same. If not, such is life. I may bear their burdens at one season in my life and they might bear mine in another season. If I am going to give anything at all (my time, resources, money, anything) I try to do it without resentment. I figure if it is causing me resentment, it is probably time for me to re-evaluate my giving. Constant complaining from people I am trying to serve would definitely increase my resentment and the likelihood of ending my time of service.

 

I don't think this is necessarily a problem unique to homeschool though. I have seen the same problems at churches when all the same people volunteer for childcare every Sunday while all the same people get to drop their kids off smiling and enjoy the service. Every 4-H, rec ball, scouts, or other activity that runs on volunteers has the same issue. I bet the PTA moms feel the same way at public schools. There is usually a core group feeling like they are doing more than everyone else. And who knows who is already committed or overcommitted with volunteering in another area of their lives?

Edited January 18, 2017 by CoffeeMama11

[Artichoke]

I don't even understand what "complaining there aren't any field trips" means in a HS context though.

 

Either get in your car and go to a place, or don't. Either meet up with ppl there, or don't.

 

 

For some places you want your child to visit, they have to do it in a group.  Some we've needed a group for are:

 

Tours at the newspaper facilities -- high school level

Cadaver Labs -- high school level

Some art museum programs -- behind the scenes and other perks for groups  

The student series of programs at the local theater which are held during the day at reduced cost and are geared directly to the students. 

Tours of the automotive plants

Jr Docent days at local historic sites

 

It would be great if these organizations opened up scheduled  tours/ times for homeschoolers.  When I've tried to help make this happen, I've mostly gotten no's.  The few groups who tried it, no longer offer the scheduled homeschool tours because too many folks called wanting to do other dates or registered and then didn't show up.   Two of the local science centers did offer to host homeschool days which have been popular.  

[Soror]

One reason why we 'do things in a group, shock horror, organising it first' is because it's CHEAPER! There are deep school group discounts that require minimum numbers and hence, someone to organise that group, book the trip/event/class, collect money, send out directions, make sure everyone shows up blah blah. A lot of work, yes, but when the cost of say, a theatre ticket is $20 in the group, and $60 not in a group, it benefits a heck of a lot of single income families for someone to step up and ORGANISE. It's the difference between your kid seeing Shakespeare, and not seeing Shakespeare.

 

I don't know about anyone else on these forums, but we do a lot of DIY because we don't have the MONEY to 'just pay someone'. Homeschool moms where I live have a lot of skills AND a lot of education. By organising a small co-op or a free class, it is that much less MONEY families need to find, and no, they are not second rate. 

 

Maybe it's very, very different in the US, and y'all get wondrous discounts on your lonesome, or things really are cheap (they prob are compared to here). 

 

But COMMUNITIES exist for a reason, and that is to benefit its members. We don't get all sniffy about other kinds of communities. I am struggling to understand the disdain in this thread for working to make a homeschool community. 

 

The issue with a few doing for the many is not homeschool specific; it happens in every volunteer organisation.

 

Some of the specific comments here are classist to the nth degree, not to mention condescending. Yep, I'm cranky about it. 

 

OP, it's a good question. Not sure if anyone, anywhere, has managed to solve the problem of givers vs takers. All you can do is bow out when it gets too much. 

Yes, there is a saying that 10% of the people do 90% of the work for a reason. 

 

Some field trips are a cinch to plan but some end up being a HUGE hassle. 

[regentrude]

One reason why we 'do things in a group, shock horror, organising it first' is because it's CHEAPER! There are deep school group discounts that require minimum numbers and hence, someone to organise that group, book the trip/event/class, collect money, send out directions, make sure everyone shows up blah blah. A lot of work, yes, but when the cost of say, a theatre ticket is $20 in the group, and $60 not in a group, it benefits a heck of a lot of single income families for someone to step up and ORGANISE. It's the difference between your kid seeing Shakespeare, and not seeing Shakespeare.

 

We are in a small town and our kids don't get to see Shakespeare here no matter how much volunteering and planning anybody does. There are no science museums or orchestras or anyplace that would give a group discount.

And in my local group, we are the only family who puts any value on driving 100 miles to the city and watching Shakespeare or visiting the art museum. Nobody else cares about this kind of cultural event. As I said, the educational opportunities I want for my kids are not appreciated by the others. It must be nice to have a group of like minded people who would engage in similar activities. We are not that lucky.

Edited January 18, 2017 by regentrude

[HS Mom in NC]

If you've never participated in groups or lead (planned, organized, reserved, advertised, supervised, taught at) an activity for a group you might not have an accurate reference point for the kinds of things group members say to those who are or how they complain to other members about the group.  Here are examples I hear on a regular basis:

"But the 3 park days available to me don't fit my schedule/aren't close to me/have too many/too few people in them/don't have restrooms.  Why aren't there more to choose from? Do you know of anyone planning to start another one?"

 

"I've been to/don't want to go the places with field trips already organized.  I'm going to find another group that has more to choose from. (Just like when I came here from the last group because this one has more to choose from than they do, but still isn't exactly what I want.) "

"The field trips target kids older/younger than mine.  Why aren't there more for older/younger kids?"

 

"The activities planned cost too much for my budget.  Why aren't there lower/no cost options available?"

"The activities planned don't work with my personal schedule.  Why aren't there more options to choose from?"

The answer to all of those is, "Someone hasn't volunteered to do that yet. The only way to make sure it happens is to do it yourself."

So here's what I don't understand about the "That's just how it is.  Nothing can be done to avoid it." mindset.  Homeschool conventions, books and blogs for decades have had how to instructions on every aspect of homeschooling out there.  How to design a unit study.  How to teach phonics.  How to teach math with manipulatives.  How to incorporate living books into different subjects.  How to write a transcript.  How to get into college.  How to evaluate learning styles.  How to teach right brained kids. How to talk to a legislator about a law that affects you. So why all of a sudden is it not a possible solution to start having how to instructions for these things that persistently come up?  How to determine if a group/activity is a good fit for you.  How to make the most of your group experience.  How to define your needs and meet them. High cost= low participation or Low cost= high participation; You choose.  How to market to your group's target students.

I'm not opposed to the idea of all outsourced activities available to homeschoolers being called something other than homeschooling, like private classes, but then we have to ask ourselves if it really is fair to say that outside activities aren't really homeschooling.  Who owns the term homeschooling?  Homeschoolers have been getting together with other homeschoolers to fill in gaps in subjects all along.  They may not have been available in every area, but saying it has never been a part of real homeschooling isn't accurate-particularly in things like advanced high school level classes.  We didn't go around saying Homeschooler Smith isn't really homeschooling when she chooses not to teach her children chemistry and instead sends them to Homeschooler Johnson's class at her house. And we don't say Homeschooler Jones, Homeschooler Kelly and Homeschooler Williams aren't really homeschooling if they send their kids to Homeschooler Doe's high school level book discussion.  Those things have always been around somewhere for homeschoolers by homeschoolers.

[Garga]

I volunteered at church for 30 years. For the bulk of those years, I was at the church volunteering 3 times a week. I did lots and lots (and lots!) of different jobs there, for free. My mom was heavily involved, so even though I was 10 when I started, I was given lots of jobs to do and it took up a lot of time. From 14 to 40, my work was valuable and not just being the little kid filling in some gaps.

 

And when I hit 40, I just couldn't volunteer anymore. Anywhere. The thought of volunteering or coordinating anything makes me feel like I've got the flu--extreme exhaustion at the very thought.

 

Before I hit 40, I taught a number of classes for kids at our local co-op, and that was great...but at age 40 it all stopped. Actually, I think I taught a couple after 40 as well, and it was like running in sand--I was utterly exhausted afterwards.

 

I'm at a point where I simply don't have it in me to do anything. In 6 years when my youngest is done, I think I'll get my volunteering energy back, but there's no guarantee.

 

In the meanwhile, I don't breathe a word of complaints to anyone in any volunteer-run organization and I'm willing to pay for services instead of taking them for free. Our co-op went from having classes to being just social. If it had kept being classes, I'd have dropped out because I know I can't give back. I wouldn't expect to take without giving back.

 

I do get a few askance looks from some of my church friends who volunteer. I know they're a little confused as to why I don't help out anymore, but when they've put in 30 years of volunteer work, then we'll talk. They're all about halfway there.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Garga

[Jean in Newcastle]

We do big field trips with the Y for low cost rates. 

 

We see Shakespeare in the Park for free with the greater neighborhood community. 

 

We get memberships to certain venues (like the science center) where we can explore on our own as often as we want, whenever we want.

 

Community does not have to equal "homeschooling" community.  Homeschool friends are not magically more nice or bright or wholesome or whatever. We have homeschool friends but they are mixed in with all of our other friends. When I started homeschooling this seemed to be the norm.  A lightbulb has gone off for me in this thread about how that is not necessarily the norm anymore. 

 

I think it's great that people find their tribe.  But I think it is weird and a bit legalistic to imply that you can't be good homeschoolers without it having a homeschool specific community.  And to then guilt people into serving it. 

[mamaraby]

I have volunteered in many ways - either with an existing group (co-op classes, field trips for the "support" group, Christmas party for the "support" group) as well as attempted to get a group that would be more accepting of us dirty atheists or just generally non-fundamentalist types.

 

I gave up on trying to get the group off the ground when it became clear that there just wasn't a large enough group within reasonable driving distance to make the group feasible.  We had people driving upwards of an hour and if your goal is friendships and social opportunities, that becomes kind of unwieldy.

 

I gave up on the "support" group because it was not very supporting if you weren't a certain sort.  Plus, it was run by a certain individual whose steamrolling kind of personality did not make for pleasant conflict resolution.  And even if I do organize field trips, my kids are mostly ignored by everyone else because we don't do the Christian co-ops or MFW or whatever those people are doing.  Even though I and "Mary" and a handful of other parents organize field trips, we're the only ones.  At some point, the cost vs. benefit analysis meant that it just wasn't worth it.

 

I gave up on the co-op because it was run by the same person who runs the "support" group and when an issue came up in the group, I was unimpressed with the way it was handled. Then there's the issue of quality. If it's not of the same quality/caliber as what I can do at home then the group itself needed to be way different to make it worth the time and effort.

 

Homeschoolers are included in some of the programming at the local theater so we can get student ticket prices for student showings and since they're offering it up to all the schools in the area, I can buy just the tickets I need for my family.  Outside classes?  After gym class at the YMCA and soccer in the fall/spring/winter, and free classes at the library, it had better be a really good class with a really good instructor if I'm going to take time out of our school days and busy schedule.  Classes at the nature center?  Count us in because it's not just a class some other mom threw together at the last minute to satisfy the co-op requirements.  The nature center does this sort of thing as its bread and butter.  Expensive?  For three kids, yeah.  Worth it?  Always.

 

Plus, I'm generally speaking the adult in my family to handle just about everything.  I don't have someone at home to help me with dinner or put the kids to bed or whatever.  If it concerns the house or the kids then it's my ball of wax.  Dh helps when he can, but he has two jobs.  His two jobs keep me home.  My always being home makes his primary job possible and unlike the divorce stats for his profession, we're still married.  See where this goes?  I just don't have time to pour into a community who doesn't really want anything to do with us anyway.  We're the wrong sort of family or my kids are the wrong sort of kids.  Tell me again why I owe anything to the local "community?"

[regentrude]

Community does not have to equal "homeschooling" community.  Homeschool friends are not magically more nice or bright or wholesome or whatever. We have homeschool friends but they are mixed in with all of our other friends. When I started homeschooling this seemed to be the norm.  A lightbulb has gone off for me in this thread about how that is not necessarily the norm anymore. 

 

I think it's great that people find their tribe.  But I think it is weird and a bit legalistic to imply that you can't be good homeschoolers without it having a homeschool specific community.  And to then guilt people into serving it. 

 

This.

You are putting this in better words than I can.

We are parts of community - but not necessarily homeschool community. I have not found to have more in common with other homeschoolers than with people with whom I share a common interest. In fact, I feel I have very little in common with the other homeschoolers I know IRL, and do not define myself through homeschooling or consider other folds kindred spirits just because they homeschool.

 

Some of my friends happen to homeschool. Most don't. And even with those who do, the homeschooling is not what makes us a tribe.

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by regentrude

[8filltheheart]

I am struggling to understand the disdain in this thread for working to make a homeschool community.

 

I don't think anyone is saying they have disdain for creating the community the OP desires. I think the disconnect is that somehow homeschoolers have a responsibility to create the community being described. There is a difference between creating community based on supporting each other and people offering things bc they want to offer them (I offer homeschool to college seminars bc I want to help people navigate a process that they often don't understand) and creating a mega-sized community that offers, as Bluegoat suggests, a consumer attitude where the attitude is what can you offer me. That is less of a community to me and more of a disconnect from community.

Edited January 19, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[Jean in Newcastle]

So here's what I don't understand about the "That's just how it is.  Nothing can be done to avoid it." mindset.  Homeschool conventions, books and blogs for decades have had how to instructions on every aspect of homeschooling out there.  How to design a unit study.  How to teach phonics.  How to teach math with manipulatives.  How to incorporate living books into different subjects.  How to write a transcript.  How to get into college.  How to evaluate learning styles.  How to teach right brained kids. How to talk to a legislator about a law that affects you. So why all of a sudden is it not a possible solution to start having how to instructions for these things that persistently come up?  How to determine if a group/activity is a good fit for you.  How to make the most of your group experience.  How to define your needs and meet them. High cost= low participation or Low cost= high participation; You choose.  How to market to your group's target students.

 

 

 

Is this what you want?  Advice on how to offer a class or write a booklet on how to start, run and participate in a homeschool group?  If you had specifically asked for that, I think that you would have gotten very different responses. 

 

If you read the posts on our experiences, you will see that many of us who aren't really into the canned homeschool groups do have a lot of experience starting groups, running them and participating in them but with different goals, agenda and philosophy than you are looking for.  I have no interest in taking a class or reading a booklet on how to be a part of a group.  But your target audience will probably have good ideas.  So tip #1:  address your questions more narrowly so that they actually reach your target audience. 

 

edited because grammar matters. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Sadie, my perspective isn't classist. There are homeschool coops on the other side of my city but I can't afford them, even if I wanted to be involved. Lower budget folks are neatly excluded, along with everybody but the right kind of Christian. Field trips in my area are usually not cheaper by group; individual homeschool families can frequently get educator rates to museums and even some performances. Most organized field trip groups are for preschool ages as social activities, maybe because there's not all that much to see around here that families can't visit on the weekends for free.

 

I don't think it's fair to call different views classist when absolutely nothing like the same opportunities even exist everywhere. Hs'ing looks very, very different from place to place.

[eternalsummer]

...

 

Not necessarily. Sometimes, instead of relying on volunteers, it makes more sense to patronize a business that is marketing to homeschoolers.

The local art studio runs inexpensive art classes. The lady who owns it sets her fee, the participants pay. Done.

A music studio offers homeschool classes. Participants pay. Done.

The local rec center offers homeschool PE. Participants pay. Done.

 

The only event with volunteer issues was coop.

 

I am with 8FillTheHeart when it comes to classes. I don't want some volunteer mom teach a class to my kids. I want a qualified teacher who has the subject expertise to teach those things where I do not posses the subject expertise. I am prepared to pay for their time and expertise and am very selective what I outsource. 

 

As a homeschooler who is not religious (so no built-in community) and pretty new (a few years) this post describes my POV perfectly.  In Colorado Springs there were a lot of schools that offered one day a week programs - they were funded as public schools, so they were free, and your kids were taught by professional, real teachers one day a week in whatever method you chose (there's a STEM one, and a Waldorf one, and a Classical one, and an arts-based one, and an outdoor ed. one, and etc.)  That was ideal.  I don't particularly want volunteers teaching my kids remedial geography - I mostly just want a social opportunity for them that I don't have to organize or run myself, and I am happy to pay for it but if my taxes pay for it instead that's fine with me too.  

 

Right now we are in a place that doesn't have the cottage school thing so we do the homeschooler art classes and etc.; it makes a lot of sense for some businesses to cater to us homeschoolers during the day as we're available to give them money at that time when PS students are not :)

[Bluegoat]

One reason why we 'do things in a group, shock horror, organising it first' is because it's CHEAPER! There are deep school group discounts that require minimum numbers and hence, someone to organise that group, book the trip/event/class, collect money, send out directions, make sure everyone shows up blah blah. A lot of work, yes, but when the cost of say, a theatre ticket is $20 in the group, and $60 not in a group, it benefits a heck of a lot of single income families for someone to step up and ORGANISE. It's the difference between your kid seeing Shakespeare, and not seeing Shakespeare.

 

I don't know about anyone else on these forums, but we do a lot of DIY because we don't have the MONEY to 'just pay someone'. Homeschool moms where I live have a lot of skills AND a lot of education. By organising a small co-op or a free class, it is that much less MONEY families need to find, and no, they are not second rate. 

 

Maybe it's very, very different in the US, and y'all get wondrous discounts on your lonesome, or things really are cheap (they prob are compared to here). 

 

But COMMUNITIES exist for a reason, and that is to benefit its members. We don't get all sniffy about other kinds of communities. I am struggling to understand the disdain in this thread for working to make a homeschool community. 

 

The issue with a few doing for the many is not homeschool specific; it happens in every volunteer organisation.

 

Some of the specific comments here are classist to the nth degree, not to mention condescending. Yep, I'm cranky about it. 

 

OP, it's a good question. Not sure if anyone, anywhere, has managed to solve the problem of givers vs takers. All you can do is bow out when it gets too much. 

 

Tis is how it is here - there are discounts and available activities that require a group.

 

Co-ops don't seem to be a thing though, for some reason.  Classes open to homeschoolers especially tend to be things like sports or drama where you need a group.

[regentrude]

What is classist is the idea that mothers' shared labor given gratis in community is somehow unneccessary and results in sub-standard offerings, as opposed to what can be purchased from a professional, an idea expressed quite clearly in this thread.

 

Since you are probably referring to my post:

I home educate my children myself in the subjects I can teach at home. If I want to outsource, I do so only if the outsourced class provides an educational opportunity I cannot provide at home and outsourcing gets my kid the better education, pure and simple. I homeschool solely for academic reasons and do not apologize for it.

 

When I hit a plateau with French at home, I was looking for a teacher who is fluent in French. If there would have been a mom in the community who volunteered to run a homeschool class in French at a level that my kid needed, I would have gladly taken advantage of that - alas, such an opportunity has never presented itself to me. I had to resort to hiring a fluent tutor and later send my child to take classes from a French professor who was proficient in French. So yes, their services were superior to what I could have obtained from volunteers.

There also have not been any mothers who volunteered to teach college level astronomy, philosophy, Shakespeare, or composition. The coop opportunities offered by volunteers have been far below the educational level we needed. 

 

I do not understand what is so difficult about the concept that a professor with a PhD in physics or literature or French language will have more expertise and offer a better Shakespeare, physics, or French class than a volunteer who has no background in the subject.

I don't think anybody would send their kids to take instrument lessons from a person who is not actually proficient at the instrument, and I think any person who shares their professional expertise deserves to be compensated for her time and should not be expected to teach for free. So yes, absolutely, a professional violin teacher who has a degree in violin performance will offer the better instruction than a volunteer who just took some violin lessons in her childhood.

Edited January 19, 2017 by regentrude

[mamaraby]

What is classist is the idea that mothers' shared labor given gratis in community is somehow unneccessary and results in sub-standard offerings, as opposed to what can be purchased from a professional, an idea expressed quite clearly in this thread.

Sure, but then when it is sub-standard? Should we just go along for the sake of the "community?" I have done co-op classes for my kids for one semester. I had *one* class (not taught by me) that was of the sort of standard and value that I expect from myself and the outside classes my kids take.

 

tbh, if doing something for the sake of one's community is of the utmost importance then I should have enrolled my kids in the public school. That way my local school district has more funding and families who genuinely have less money/opportunities than mine benefit from my family's participation. I fail to see why my free labor should go towards the other homeschooling families in a community that doesn't really want us there and that don't or won't reciprocate. My time and effort are worth something, too.

[eternalsummer]

One reason why we 'do things in a group, shock horror, organising it first' is because it's CHEAPER! There are deep school group discounts that require minimum numbers and hence, someone to organise that group, book the trip/event/class, collect money, send out directions, make sure everyone shows up blah blah. A lot of work, yes, but when the cost of say, a theatre ticket is $20 in the group, and $60 not in a group, it benefits a heck of a lot of single income families for someone to step up and ORGANISE. It's the difference between your kid seeing Shakespeare, and not seeing Shakespeare.

 

I don't know about anyone else on these forums, but we do a lot of DIY because we don't have the MONEY to 'just pay someone'. Homeschool moms where I live have a lot of skills AND a lot of education. By organising a small co-op or a free class, it is that much less MONEY families need to find, and no, they are not second rate. 

 

Maybe it's very, very different in the US, and y'all get wondrous discounts on your lonesome, or things really are cheap (they prob are compared to here). 

 

But COMMUNITIES exist for a reason, and that is to benefit its members. We don't get all sniffy about other kinds of communities. I am struggling to understand the disdain in this thread for working to make a homeschool community. 

 

The issue with a few doing for the many is not homeschool specific; it happens in every volunteer organisation.

 

Some of the specific comments here are classist to the nth degree, not to mention condescending. Yep, I'm cranky about it. 

 

OP, it's a good question. Not sure if anyone, anywhere, has managed to solve the problem of givers vs takers. All you can do is bow out when it gets too much. 

 

I think building a homeschool community is a great thing and good on you for doing it.  If I came across as classist I apologize; I have homeschooled while exceedingly poor and, just like with everything else when I was exceedingly poor, we just didn't do as much. That is part of the reason I really like the public charter cottage school model - a built in sliding scale.

[regentrude]

Why are people assuming that homeschool mom class means 'not very good' ? My degree is in writing, I run a damn fine LA class. I could charge for it, because I get paid elsewhere by normal people to do the same job, but I don't, because I want people struggling financially to be able to access it.

 

That would be awesome. My local experience is that there would be no students here who would even be interested in taking a class at a challenging level.

I have not seen any highly trained professionals volunteering their expertise to teach classes of an academic level I would have considered useful for my kids. There would also not have been other takers.

I myself have tried offering classes in my area of expertise, and my attempt has been met with apathy, low interest and engagement so that I could not teach on a level even remotely close to what I would have considered appropriate.

Edited January 19, 2017 by regentrude

[regentrude]

Most moms I know have plenty to offer. They're not idiots.

 

Nobody said that. But what they offer may or may not fit into the educational framework of any particular homeschooling family.

 

I have not met any mother IRL who offered any classwork that would have fit within my children's educational progression. Sorry - maybe your homeschool circles work on higher academic levels than ours. We just never fit. The coop "writing class" was a joke. I was looking for something to prepare my 12 y/o for the five paragraph essay on the SAT - they were working on topic sentences. Nope, no fit.

 

Edited January 19, 2017 by regentrude

[mamaraby]

Sadie - because in my real life, been there, done that experience homeschool mom taught classes haven't been very good. Your experience is different which, hey, that's great. If I were to have your experience? That's the kind of community I'd like to find. I have given up on finding it outside of paying for it because my time is worth something too.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think building a homeschool community is a great thing and good on you for doing it. If I came across as classist I apologize; I have homeschooled while exceedingly poor and, just like with everything else when I was exceedingly poor, we just didn't do as much. That is part of the reason I really like the public charter cottage school model - a built in sliding scale.

Yes. I didn't sign up for academic co-ops because I couldn't afford them. We did free meet-ups instead with friends. I only did field trips if I could afford them or if I can find something free to do. We still did more field trips than the public school did in a year. It just took some ingenuity. I have no problem with others doing more but I don't feel bitter that we made different choices.

[mamaraby]

lol, it would be a lot better of a community if, getting back to the OP's question, the people who took advantage of it also gave something to it!

And then we're back to I've tried that and have given up. I dare say it just does not exist within my community and I'm tired of trying to make it happen. Most people here (locally) seem fine with what's being offered. If I want something of the sort of caliber you're describing, I either have to pay for it locally, pay for it online, or put my kids in some sort of all day school type situation.

Edited January 19, 2017 by mamaraby

[Carol in Cal.]

I think everybody has different hot buttons.

 

I agree that it is annoying if people complain about a bunch of free or virtually free offerings that have specific requirements on them.  Hello!  Someone is doing you a big favor.  Either accept it with thanks, or turn it down if it's a bad fit.  Either way, don't whine.  That is my wish.

 

However.

 

I can't have that wish.  Because there are always people who either take it and complain about it, or argue about the requirements, or whatever.

 

And I sort of outgrew feeling like that was a hot button, because I kind of got used to it, and besides, I wasn't really extremely dependent on those kinds of things for community or much of anything, really.  I participated if they fit, I offered what I couldn't find elsewhere, and I just kind of let the reactions that some had roll off my back.  It's kind of a bean dip attitude, I guess.  "Oh, you want me to teach this differently, this thing that I'm offering for free that you couldn't get anywhere else?  Because you are taking a pedagogy class right now and it's the latest thing?  No, I'm not really interested in doing that, but if you want to, that would be great!"  "You don't want to come to this series unless your kid feels like it that day?  Well, as I outlined in that long email I sent when you asked about this class I'm offering for free, we are going to be studying one book with tangents and spin offs, and so if he misses one class he might have trouble understanding the next one.  I hope he can come every time."  "You want to join the field trip but you want to come an hour late?  Sure, you can do that, but you will miss the guided tour."  "You wish there was another day to meet?  Awesome, I hope you organize one!  Let me know!" 

 

I mean, this kind of thing is just not that hard to discuss, to me.  And if people don't like the requirements, they don't have to participate.  That's what I do when I decide whether to participate in something or not--I assess whether it's a good fit, and if it is I try to be supportive and to meet the requirements set out in advance. 

 

It's a whole nother story if the plans are unclear or requirements keep changing, but barring that, the cheerful bean dip approach seems awfully reasonable to me.

[Artichoke]

What is classist is the idea that mothers' shared labor given gratis in community is somehow unneccessary and results in sub-standard offerings, as opposed to what can be purchased from a professional, an idea expressed quite clearly in this thread.

 

 

Thank you for saying this.  There are many homeschool moms and dads giving to the HS community who are immensely qualified.  When we first began our co-op experiences in the late 1990's, little to no money changed hands in our group.  What we did have were people who had experience and subject knowledge to lead a class experience.  We inventoried our resources and created our classes out of the resources that we had.  On another note, the administrative skills that we (mostly) mothers provide is individually worth tens of thousands of dollars each year.  The same could also be said for many parents in the PTA.   

[daijobu]

Are we still answering the OP?  

 

I organize primarily math-related activities.  My daughter and I coach a MathCounts team.  I arrange for AMC exams locally, finding a proctor, filling out paperwork, etc.  I host annual Math Kangaroo exams.  Both my daughters coach MOEMS and I facilitate that.  This is elementary through high school.  

 

I make folks pay a nominal fee, like $10, so they're less likely to flake, and it isn't too high to be a financial burden.  (Reminder to myself to make sure to tell people to ask for a fee waiver if they need one.)  I'm not doing it to make money.  Which leads me to why do I do it?

 

I do it to coalesce a community of like-minded mathy kids.  It's no fun to show up at MathCounts chapter competition as an individual when all the schools are showing up with 10 kids each.  (Not that it's no fun, but it's more fun to have friends along.)  I organize the meetings at my convenience and for the purpose of providing an environment for my own kids.  

 

I don't ask for any help from other parents because I don't want to collaborate.  (I don't collaborate or compromise very well when it comes to my kids education.  That's why I homeschool.)  I have my own vision of what I'm trying to accomplish with my kids.  I explain my approach when I invite parents to have their students join us.  "This is exactly what I'm doing.  If you want to join us, that'll be 10 bucks and see you every Thursday at 2pm."  

 

While it's tiring sometimes, since I'm doing it for the good of my own kids, I don't feel full blown burnout, nor do I feel taken advantage of by other parents.  If anything, I feel grateful that they are sharing their kids with mine, again to build friendships and a community.  

 

Kids who join us in the MOEMS classes in elementary school end up being on our MathCounts team, and so on.  I also get a chance to vet other parents for reliability and not being high maintenance, but that's a small issue.  Most parents are very nice and responsible.

 

I may continue this after my kids have outgrown it, but I would charge a great deal more money and arrange to do more of the teaching and less of the administrative stuff.  

 

The key to success:  Do it for your own kids and let the others decide whether to join you.  HTH.

 

 

[regentrude]

I organize primarily math-related activities.  My daughter and I coach a MathCounts team.  I arrange for AMC exams locally, finding a proctor, filling out paperwork, etc.  I host annual Math Kangaroo exams.  Both my daughters coach MOEMS and I facilitate that.  This is elementary through high school.  

 

Awesome!!! So jealous. We would have joined you in a heartbeat.

 

The kids in our local homeschool group are mostly not even on grade level in math. DS tells me that none of his friends have completed college prep high school level math during homeschool high school. 

[Carol in Cal.]

Thinking about this further, I think this doesn't bother me that much in much the same way that multi level marketing folks don't bother me.

It's because it's just not that hard for me to say, No, thank you, and so that stuff doesn't bug me very much.  I don't get anxious or upset at being asked for something that will force me to say no to someone.  I can do it nicely and clearly, and it doesn't make me feel bad, and I hope it doesn't make them feel bad either.  So it's fine.

[Artichoke]

Nobody said that. But what they offer may or may not fit into the educational framework of any particular homeschooling family.

 

I have not met any mother IRL who offered any classwork that would have fit within my children's educational progression. Sorry - maybe your homeschool circles work on higher academic levels than ours. We just never fit. The coop "writing class" was a joke. I was looking for something to prepare my 12 y/o for the five paragraph essay on the SAT - they were working on topic sentences. Nope, no fit.

 

 

Thanks for sharing this.  It has helped me realize that our homeschool experience has been different than many others.  We are blessed to have been a part of a vibrant  community that strove for excellence.   I think this is why I am saddened by the changes that I see.  People no longer search for the excellence in our community but settle for an online class instead.   We have some awesome online teachers, but the community aspect is lacking.  Then again, I have to realize that not everyone wants that local community. 

[mamaraby]

I bet if you put your kid in my class, even if you didn't like it, you'd say 'thank you for providing your time and energy' at the end of it!

I imagine you wouldn't keep us out for being atheists, either. So...there's that.

 

I suspect the kinds of people you are thinking of maybe aren't hanging out on TWTM forums, either.